Gatekeeping in the goth subculture

[@kreepeetz]

We are "outcasts" and I WILL never understand why an outcast will outcast someone else instead of being welcoming. (Ofc this doesn't apply to the creepy predators out there). 🖤🦇

[@lunadimoona1755]

I've been goth for 20+ years and it boggles my mind people still act that way in the subculture for this very reason

[@Whimsig0th]

I am goth with horrible social anxiety due to bullying.. I would hate to feel less goth because it's really emotionally and physically hard for me to go to events. It's also very ableist as many events are not accessible to the disabled community, so does make the disabled goths less goth? Heck no. This was a great video. I haven't seen your "the clothes don't make the goth video", but I could totally tell you were not a gatekeeper. So glad to be supporting content from a genuine person! :)

[@JukeboxGothic]

There was a time when if someone came up to me and started interrogating me with questions about my musical tastes I would have told them to politely fuck off. However, with this "I want a goth girlfriend" trend (that disturbs me greatly), I believe a certain level of "gate keeping" for security is probably a good thing.

[@Sanguine_Addiction]

Agreed. The whole "big tiddy Goth GF" is ridiculous. There's a lot of scumbags out there who only see Goth women as inanimate sex objects and they only want to pursue them to fulfill some sort of sex fantasy that they've seen in a porno or some other bullshit like that. What they fail to realize is that under all the makeup & aesthetics is a woman, and like any other woman, she wants to love and be loved in return. Goth women already know they walk with a bullseye on their backs, the BTGG doesn't help. So yeah, I can see where gatekeeping comes into play to keep the douchebags out.

[@lilachris]

When I first went to our local goth nights I had people telling me afterwards that "others" were talking about me and my friends in a bad way behind our backs because we're the "fancy instagram goths" and not real members of the scene :'D but they never actually said anything to me in person and I don't really know who they were to this day. I can see why some people may resent the "internet goths" or the term being used so freely nowadays though, you just can't assume if anyone is really into the scene or not from their instagram profile right?

[@Sanniz]

Very wise words Orphea. The music is most important. And I wish people knew the difference. And that a look is just an expression of a personality. Some want to show it with big creativity and others are more laid back. No one is more Goth than the other, as long as both love Goth music. Have a great weekend Lovely 🦇🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇

[@He_Loves_Horror]

Agreed on Orphea's very fine words, as per always with her great content. Indeed: Goth is a music-based subculture. I'm actually surprised that I have to make mention of this, or even to have to read it, at least several times a month ob Gothic centric KZbin videos.🤔As you noted (and as I often times do as well) some are more animated & different (e.g. my French friend Legist's with her struggling to restart her more Lolita based Gothic fashion channel). While others, such as me, are more Trad Goth in an all black wardrobe and in black long-sleeve dress shirts. Spot on as no one is truly "really MORE Goth" as long as all mostly truly loves Goth Rock. Great words.🦇🐈‍⬛🖤🕸🎃

[@Sanniz]

@@He_Loves_Horror Thanks Brandon. Yes, it's sad that we need to repeat that most simple and basic fact of them all.

[@He_Loves_Horror]

Indeed. While I wouldn't mind to read it once a year or so, the fact that I have to remind others every so often, often times monthly, as well as to see others have to post & to make videos on it, is often times quite puzzling.🤔Ah well.

[@retroNightmare8x]

The gatekeeping I encountered was not at an event it was in high school with other goth and alt teens. They would make fun of me if I wore anything other than black or listen to any other genre. Looking back, these were just angsty teens with nothing else to do. None of them were goth for longer than 2 years. In my day to day life now the goths I know don't care what I listen to or if I wear another color other than black. The only negative comments or questions I get now are from people that aren't in the scene at all.

[@He_Loves_Horror]

That sucked to hear. Alas I would just ignore them. I'm a darkly-inclined person with some Trad Goth sensibilities though I've never been made fun of in public. Again my wardrobe is very simple: Name brand black jeans (either Levi's or Wrangler), black t shirts from packs. And to cover that up with black dress shirts (no pocket on the front) and I dye my hair black. Nothing super "out there" or 'really eccentric' or anything. At the end of the day you should just simply be whom you are & ignore any moronic haters. I'd say simply stay on your current path, Retro Nightmare.🦇🖤🐈‍⬛🎃

[@RandalKoene]

Oh yeah, and to counter-balance a little bit: There's also the other phenomenon, where a group of (typically very young) newcomers that congregates on the dance floor ends up being absolutely hilarious as they discover just how much fun they're having experimenting with wild or weird approaches to dancing to gothy/industrial tunes. It's a bit like watching puppies or kittens!

[@TheLadyDelirium]

I went to goth night recently and it was wonderful seeing the youngs uns jumping about enjoying themselves. It made me smile seeing the new members of the community having fun.

[@RandalKoene]

Out in San Francisco, at Death Guild, there's almost a reverse of "gate-keeping", namely, a friendliness to newcomers in that we hope they like the scene and become more involved. And seeing as Death Guild is now the oldest continuously active Goth Club around, maybe that works. That said, there is simultaneously a high level of alertness to any indication of harassment. That alertness is both at the staff of DNA Lounge, as well as the regular patrons. What I've noticed is that small groups of guys will occasionally cruise the club looking for connection with the girls dancing. Mostly, that's harmless and they calm down after a little while when the expected personal space becomes apparent to them. The bigger problem is drunks. I'd say that about 1-2 times per month (DG is a weekly event) there is some guy, completely plastered. They'll hit on girls and guys about equally frequently, and just try to be way too touchy-feely in an almost aggressive way. That's where some earlier gate-keeping, noticing already-drunk newcomers can be very helpful. Great videos! Keep it up :-)

[@te9591]

Screening out obnoxious drunks isn't gate keeping imo.

[@Antdevamp]

I have recently heard a thread on Tik Tok called 'Goth Aesthetics'. It's the fast summary of Goth style, fashion, house decor, 'top music'. Everything they mention is exactly 4% of the real goth scene, but this is both the most simplistic and design styles to start with. I've seen laughing or mocking these new goths using the power of the internet to start, but this is a more organized way than say I did. Get out of their way, I say. Taste and practice will lead them them to truth eventually.

[@_spacealien]

Thank you so much for saying this! After deconstructing my Christian upbringing I am finally exploring the music I wanted to listen to but I was told was 'evil', so I feel pretty insecure about people keeping me out of spaces that I don't already know all the facts from 🥺

[@TheLadyDelirium]

I'm in the UK and have been going to Goth, Rock and Metal bars and events since my teen years. I haven't experienced any gate keeping or seen anyone acting that way. The people are generally really nice and accepting of others. I hope you have fun if you decide to get more involved in the community.

[@_spacealien]

@@TheLadyDelirium wow that is super encouraging, thank you!!

[@TracyD2]

It’s impossible to know all the facts. People go to events also to be “turned on “ to different bands, songs, clothes etc… by interacting with each other.

[@_spacealien]

@@TracyD2

[@mitutoyo34]

If you are beautiful and Young you would probably haven't experienced gatekeeping . As for me when I was young the only thing I encounter was not being part of the local Gothic "click". This is in Central Florida US. Now I'm 53 y.o. I'm a little bit overweight. And I never been really tall, now if I go to a "concert or Gothic venue" and I am dressed Gothic from head to toe; they look at me like I have three heads. "Like who let Grandpa out".lol. Not everybody though I'm not generalizing but some . but I was there I was there when Bauhaus started I was there when the cure released their first album...

[@He_Loves_Horror]

Happy World Goth Day my good Belgian friend. Bless you! 🦇🦇🕸🕸🖤🐈‍⬛🎃🎃🦇🦇

[@PunmasterSTP]

I've never really been associated with the goth subculture, and was just randomly recommended this video and clicked out of curiosity. I'm glad there is a vibrant community, and that there are people willing to help initiate new members as well as safeguard partygoers from harassment!

[@CreightonChaney-io4xv]

In my area, there's all this bs drama and accusations thrown around and rumors circulating I don't associate with them and I'm not afraid to tell them that they're acting like the mean popular people from highschool Where did they learn said behavior from? The mean popular cliques that's who We're supposed to be the outcasts yet they act way too inclusive If I wanted to be treated like that, I'd just go out to "polite society" I'm always inviting friends to check it out and always helping out the baby 🦇 and little 🐺

[@festivalkyrie]

I'm seeing lots of baby🦇 on Reddit mostly seeking help and ask questions, which is great, and as they meet some kindness at first will dismiss this myth of "oh everybodyis a gatekeeper" thing. Thank you for mentioning that we're trying to monitor out the creeps for our safety- this is getting to be a bigger problem, and even the bullying which is mostly linked on this weird "contest" how many % of goth you have to appear online. I'm so sick of how defensive and paranoid social media makes teens :/

[@DesertNebula]

Gate-keeping is ridiculously comical......annoying.. .. but just dumb. It's everywhere 😩💢 I'm just discovering gate keepers in hiking, running and other hobbies. Like, what in the hivemind is going on haha. RIP 😐

[@themoonflowerfaerie]

I've never experienced it in person since I don't live near any Goth people or events :( However, I have experienced it online years ago. I used to be a member of Black Friday's old Facebook group. And one time I was mentioning some bands I liked in the group. A young teenage boy got on and just started being very hateful to me, even calling me names about those bands. He said they weren't Goth and something to the effect that I was stupid if I thought they were. Of course other people, along with one of the moderators saw what he was saying to me. I tried responding nicely to him, but he still wanted to just argue and be unkind. So he got reprimanded by the moderator. This caused him to be very angry, and he left the group after leaving a nasty comment about how he was being treated. I was really surprised, and it did hurt me how he talked, but I know this happens to a lot of people. I'm a peace loving person, and I just want to get along with everyone, so if I can avoid conflict I will. I think it's sad that people think that just because they are hiding behind their computer screens, they can be unkind to others, sometimes very unkind, and that it's okay :(

[@SeaWave75]

Orphea - Respect for this video! 💚🖤

[@sweetpurple8812]

I dress in a dark way. I borrow a lot of things from various styles. If I use words like "gothic" to describe my personal style, I get told off for not assimilating to someone else's expectations? Its ridiculous.

[@-RONNIE]

Personally I hate when people do that to others. I never been bullied or got called out well at least not to my face or in my immediate vicinity but that's maybe because I don't go all out or over the top with my outfits. I did however needed to step in a lot of times to help others out because people like that will not be tolerated around me. I do agree with you it's more of an online thing now. I've always thought that everyone should help everyone in subculture.

[@user-kk2pc7ik7t]

Whenever I hear about gatekeeping I think about MTV and metal. Is it always a bad thing? My only concern is that sometimes people don't know that they dont know. Not everyone is extremely well read and have the same level of knowledge. It takes time and effort to educate oneself.

[@Anton_the_Vampire]

Thanks for this video. I'm in a kinda weird position because, at 50, I've been into Goth art, architecture, fashion, & aesthetic for 35 years, but due to being a classical guitarist & Basso Profundo singer my musical tastes were elsewhere for a long time. It's only recently that I have started really exploring Goth music, trying to find what suits me best. So, I am dealing with a lot of "imposter syndrome" at the moment. Fortunately, so far, the community has been very welcoming online.

[@Anonymous-wb3nz]

Goth is MUSIC, Gothic is the art, architecture, fashion, ect. Weird that you didn't know.

[@adrianamancuso4917]

The one and only time I went to a goth event, I was hit on and it was a very uncomfortable experience. I haven't been back to any got event since. I'd like to go again some time, though.

[@Orphea333]

If that ever happens at an event, you can always talk to the organization about it. If the person keeps trying to approach you, they can have them removed. I hope you'll have a better experience next time 🖤

[@DecoElectraGun]

How do you feel about bands that play Goth genre influenced music but aren’t part of the subculture like Peter Murphy.

[@lunaamethyst1046]

Is there a chance or link to join the discord server ?:)

[@MissLizzy882]

I think it's Patreon only. The info should be on her Patreon when you sign up to the right tier for accessing the Discord Server 😊

[@lunaamethyst1046]

@@MissLizzy882 Ah ok, thank you for the information😊

[@SchimmerGefunkel]

I look goth, but I'm not - because I'm not interested in music at all. there are bats and graveyardish design around me. my clothes are black with frills and lace. I read gothic novels. but I accept the opinion, that I cannot be goth. it's not my aim to be part of this subculture, it ist just my style. and I am on gothic just to have people looking like me arount me. I'm not interested in the stages