On Wednesday & Friday Fasts - St. Nikodemos the Hagiorite

Excerpted from "Exomologetarion - Book Presentation and Introduction" by Fr. Peter Heers
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[@alexanderslominski]

I can not consume most plant based food, because my body is too sensitive. Most animal products do not cause any harm to me. I simply do not eat on Wednesday and Friday and drink only water with salt or tea. I am Feeling great on fasting days and it is actually easier to hold to that, when I am telling myself, that god will be pleased by that.

[@Nelson-sr2bi]

Just make sure to not be making up your own rule but to fall under obedience to a spiritual father, and tell him your situation.

[@orthodoxphronesis]

That’s a good practice!Have you tried sauerkraut, pickles, boiled cabbage, avocados , or nutritional yeast? I have digestion issues with plants too, but I’ve found no issues with fermented products. A little apple cider vinegar is very helpful too :) 🙏🏻☦️

[@akhad1193]

That's even better

[@ianmackenzie686]

Ditto on the plant consumption.

[@ienjoyapples]

May I ask what you do during Lent, Nativity, etc.? I also eat an animal based diet, and have dispensation from my priest on Wednesdays/Fridays, but for the great fasts I just bite the bullet and eat the least offensive plant foods I can, mostly white rice.

[@MartyRodriguezOrthodoxMarine]

I Am An Antiochian Orthodox Christian ☦️ And I Do Fast On Wednesday and Friday As Required By My Faith Regardless What I Believe, Feel, or Think.

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

My spiritual father didn't instruct me this but I happened to became on voluntary fasting from sweets and even junk food (this much less). Why? Because it's not food, it's just to fill your passions. And you overpowering crave for sweets (and in workplace we always have a lot of sweets) just makes you personally so stronger, you can manage yourself so much better then God bless

[@timothyhoneycutt3648]

According to Holy Tradition, abstaining from food until 3pm is the standard. As Fr. Peter quotes, we see this the Apostolic Constitutions and the explicit teachings of various saints. Today, many of us (myself included) are very far from keeping this standard. Some shouldn't even try to keep this standard, whether for medical reasons or simply because they aren't ready to take such a step. But it is something that some (many?) of us can work toward. I am grateful to know what the standard is so I can work harder in fulfilling God's commands and repent when I fall short. All of this, as with everything else, should be done under the guidance and blessing of our spiritual father. Even if one's spiritual father says "You aren't ready to fast like this. I want you to do this instead," we can all say "Lord, I accept this from my spiritual father as being from You. I am weak. You know what I am capable of and even in that I fall short. Forgive my weakness and help me offer more of my soul and body to You."

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

Divine Liturgy is up to 12 hours, or 11AM. When you get to home/work it's 12-1PM, then rest and before you prepare your meal it's 3PM So I don't find any problem at all

[@TheRealRealOK]

@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc. Good for you. Be sure to tell everyone who doesn’t fast this way.

[@CostaB19]

Wait everyday?

[@LadyMaria]

​​@@FirstnameLastname-py3bcWe have Liturgy at 9:00 to 10:30 (no Orthros in Slavic tradition) when we have it outside of Sunday and coffee hour after. If our Vladyka is fine with us having coffee hour before 15:00 then so am I. You may not have an issue but others have a different life than you do.

[@periwinkle3448]

@@CostaB19^ That’s my question.

[@karens.8194]

Fasting is a very healthy practice. It has helped me to fix my husband and my health just by eating less or sometimes doing a 24 hours or longer fast. I just try to balance my minerals during fasting and of course by adding a little pink salt on my lemon water and apple cider vinegar helps me to keep going, It feels great! It clears my mind, helps me be more calm and helps me to sleep better. I don't find it difficult at all! I have been doing intermittent fasting for about 3 years before I found the Orthodox Church. Today... I learned WHY is so important to do it on Wed and Fri. As an inquirer, Now!... I know the reason behind and I deeply respect it. Thank you so much Fr. Peter and @OrthodoxEthos for helping putting all this up!

[@makingsmokesince76]

Your experience sounds very similar to my own. The psychosomatic benefits of fasting are immense. God bless.

[@angiekereakes6551]

The next book I would like to buy! AMAZING (the sample offered to view).

[@jerryharon375]

The issue I have with the “no eating until 9th hour” rule here is that even most monasteries don’t apply this. I was at St Anthony’s in Arizona recently and the monks/pilgrims were eating lunch and dinner at 12pm and 4pm. I’m not sure that we can so easily give this advice to the laity … I’d assume this fasting discipline is more of an “ask your priest/spiritual father” kind of thing …

[@GuitarTunings33]

I am interested in Orthodoxy. Does this monastery allow visitors of any faith background?

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

​@@GuitarTunings33call their telephone

[@OrthoLou]

I was thinking the same thing. My job is pretty physical, and I work from 7am to 5pm... Like, sorry, Father, but I definitely need to eat SOMETHING in the middle of the day for lunch...lol.

[@Ioannikios174]

​@guitartunings11 Yes this Monastery does allow non-Orthodox to enter, although not to fully partake in services. I would definitely call ahead and ask for specifics.

[@GuitarTunings33]

@@Ioannikios174 Thank you!

[@GodnLovenPeace]

In Georgia(country)it is super common to fast. I thought it was common among other Orthodox nations. God bless you all❤️

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Fasting is soooooooooooo good for heath. Autophagy 🥳

[@user-pb4gy9qj7f]

I'm sure God has designed our bodies to get benefits from fasting, if He want us to do something, it's out of love and for our own good ❤

[@CHARGERDON55]

Everything looks great!

[@user-pb4gy9qj7f]

Thank you for this ❤

[@rameybutler-hm7nx]

When my wife and i joined the father kept saying fast but he never said how long a day was. Found out its daybreak to dark. Come to find out ive been fasting for 25 years. I never ate breakfast and didnt eat till it was too dark to work. Lol

[@theStormaftertheCalm]

The demons don't want any human to abide in the Traditional Eastern Orthodox method of fasting. I'm not a monk; however, I learned very early that laity, even though they are living in the world societies, all people should long to become likened to a monk and live a monk's life, as close as possible. With that stated, from my own experience, I have met opposition from those in my life of society that sought to dictate what my fasting rule was going to be or not be, which is a dispute they didn't win, at the expense of the relationship. In addition, my fasting rule is based upon what is external to me and since I love food the demons use that as a weapon against me. Everyone is going to have their excuse on why they can't eat salads, and I was one of them because it would cause diarrhea very bad, but after using the advice of Dr. Eric Berg I reached a state where I can now have 7-10 loose cups of salad without a problem. The point is, when the excuses come forth, where are they originating from? Internally or externally?

[@seraphim3TN]

Dr Berg is a scientologist and a grifter. His son has a channel explaining everything. "Dr" Berg should be avoided at all costs.

[@theStormaftertheCalm]

@@nikusja5864 - Understandable; however, I don't have a spiritual father and those who would qualify as a spiritual father has told that they aren't interested. This is due to how they have experienced the problem of people asking them to be and want them to perform miracles like the Saints did when they were spiritual fathers during life, even though I explained that I'm not looking for a spiritual father in that context. Being retired and not being active outside of our very rual home makes the spiritual father opportunities even less.

[@James-hk6gc]

God bless 🙌 🙏

[@tWo_fOoT_oNiOn_1775]

“Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭

[@comehealing]

Does the ninth hour rule apply to fasting periods outside Holy Week/Wednesdays/Fridays, e.g. the Nativity fast or the Dormition fast?

[@prashantseewoochurn9066]

Father Peter, when I eat at the 9th hour, can I eat meat, milk etc ? Or should I eat dry food ? I mean to ask, am I ending the fast when I am eating at the 9th hour ?

[@RaptorLlama]

This is presuming (I assume) there is no feast of a rank high enough to allow wine and oil. It seems feasts having the Great Doxology or higher permit wine and oil, and vigil rank and higher permit fish. This is presuming of course that the feast was actually celebrated

[@The_Theologist764]

Can I find this book in greek? I would appreciate any help.

[@cw8790]

What about how Priestmonk Kosmas said be careful as newbiew with the fasting

[@johnnyd2383]

Newbies need to get into it slowly as if they go too fast too much they may fall off of the Church due to hardship over it... I presume that is what he meant.

[@francisblain2834]

I’m still not sure how to fast. Do we do it only on feast days and lent? What foods do we avoid? What is permissible during break fast? Do we fast until 9pm? What about fasting for Eucharist?

[@paulpeter2869]

Very easy to search on Google. Most orthodox church websites gives a general rule and info about it. Just do the bare minimum of research.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

In the Orthodox Church we have calendars that show which days are fasting days and what can be eaten on those days. Generally, “strict” fasting means eating fruits, grains and vegetables but no oil, alcohol, or animal products (meat, dairy, eggs, etc.). Some fast days on the calendar are less strict and allow oil and wine. As explained in the video, traditionally fasting also meant abstaining from all food and water until 3pm and then having one meal consisting of the appropriate foods mentioned above. Of course, in the Orthodox Church we are not to be self-guided but should seek guidance about these things from an experienced spiritual father who strives to follow the teachings of the saints and who can guide us according to our circumstances.

[@pelti93]

What should one do if ones spiritual father doesn't strive to follow the teachings of the saints? @@OrthodoxEthos

[@NSXKaylaaa]

Hello I am a Catechism and now our priest has been taken at Church so we don’t actually have a full time one. As I am new to fasting I have started on Friday’s at the moment to gradually fasting on Wednesday’s. I would like to ask about oil, am I just supposed to not consume olive oil, or all oils. As a lot of food has vegetable/sunflower are these oils allowed. Please be kind responding :) as I have a lot to learn and no priest so guide me right now. Have a blessed day all ❤

[@johnnyd2383]

If the fast is w/o oil, that means w/o ANY oil... food is to be prepared w/o any cooking oil. Processed foods are most likely to have oils and this are not acceptable on such a day. Many think that fasting is easy. It is not especially when we fast for many weeks in a row.

[@Az-bz6tz]

So you don’t eat until 3pm on Wednesdays and Fridays? After 3pm can you eat meat? And does the fast start at sunrise or when?

[@Ymirson999]

Is simply not eating on Wed. and Friday an acceptable alternative?

[@barbaragonzales5944]

Who wrote the apostolic constitutions, and when?

[@johnnyd2383]

Author is unknown, time also. It is one of the Early Church Writings...

[@paulmelonas7263]

Aside from what each person says they do and aside from why we do it as the Priest in the video goes on and on about, my question is WHAT CAN I EAT and WHEN CAN I EAT IT? Just cut to the chase....

[@johnnyd2383]

Fasting rules are dependent on the specific calendar day... in your Parish look for a Church's calendar that has designations for every day. Typically, fasting means vegan food w/o any cooking oils - food is preped w/o oils, next relaxation is "oil fast" which means vegan foods including oils, and next relaxation is "fish fast" meaning vegan foods plus fish is allowed. When to eat.? Lay people follow their normal daily routine, try not to take any snacks in between meals, size should be moderate nothing excessive. Hope this helps. Cheers.!

[@paulmelonas7263]

@@johnnyd2383 Yes it does help thanks.

[@nc4042]

The thing about the antiochian archdiocese allowing oil is not a thing…. It was only allowed in Syria/lebanon because olive oil is the food of the poor and most people can’t afford a chicken with a monthly pay… It’s not the case in North America.

[@seraphim3TN]

in my former antiochian parish in the south, they had oil during every fast. they think you can substitute any oil (mct oil, vege oil, canola oil, etc..) for olive oil. they think no oil means only no olive oil lol.

[@nc4042]

@@seraphim3TN Like I said this is in local parishes because the archdiocese directive is to not have oil. Concerning substituting olive oil with any oil, it’s also something that’s going on in both monasteries established by elder Ephraim here in Canada.

[@LadyMaria]

​@@seraphim3TNThat's the Greek practice. The reason why wine and olive oil are abstained from is because they used to be carried in animal skins and we abstain from all animal products. We learned this in inquiry class. That's why coconut oil, nut/seed oils can be permitted.

[@seraphim3TN]

@@LadyMaria that's just not true and contrary to the traditions of the Church. how is using coconut oil instead of olive oil denying yourself?

[@LadyMaria]

​@@seraphim3TNI just gave the reasoning for the abstention. Focus on yourself. (I don't use coconut oil.)

[@stefanieblanche2748]

I cook shrimps without oil is this allowed on wednesday and fridays?

[@LadyMaria]

Yes.

[@johnnyd2383]

Sea foods are allowed only if the fast prescribed for that certain day is - "fish fast". Otherwise, what stops you from frying some salmon w/o oils and claiming you are fasting w/o oils when salmon is very juicy with its own fats.?

[@m.pachomia7367]

No. As Fr. Peter said, shrimp is only allowed on oil days.

[@unixlv708]

So if I understood correctly, we need to fast on Wednesdays and Friday till about 3 p.m.?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

That is the ideal that we should strive for, but under the guidance of a discerning spiritual father who can help discern what we can handle and what we cannot.

[@olekthe2nd414]

⁠@@OrthodoxEthosFather, do the restrictions on food still apply after the 9th hour? I am an inquirer and this is new to me.

[@radicr]

@@OrthodoxEthosAnd during the Great Lent too?

[@unixlv708]

Thanks for the reply

[@saso3545]

@@OrthodoxEthos I feel like this answer to the above question sum up the whole topic, without delving into too much theology for the majority of us poor sinners today.

[@deannaroberts4348]

When is the 9th hour?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

3pm

[@deannaroberts4348]

@@OrthodoxEthos thank you.

[@strikeoneboxing4384]

This is from the exomologetarion right?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Yes, see the video description

[@strikeoneboxing4384]

Can you please tell me which page is all this mentioned 🙏?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

@strikeoneboxing4384 see subsection F in “Some Pertinent Subjects Outside the Canons of the Faster”, around pg 220

[@frankschaeffer8153]

I've stayed at a number of monasteries in various countries, some that are supposed to be quite strict, stayed on Mt. Athos. I haven't met a single person who keeps all of these rules. it seems like virtually everybody compromises to some degree. Not to mention that most who have been baptized Orthodox don't seem to fast at all. It can be a struggle to find food suitable for fasting in Orthodox countries in my experience. Most of the time being Orthodox I didn't even know that eating one meal after 3 pm was a rule and not a pious custom. I hadn't seen it included in any description of how we should fast. So since virtually everybody compromises, I'm not sure why single out the issue of oil? Not that I suggest eating it. I'm just wondering.

[@johnnyd2383]

I am sorry to ask you if you are a blind person.? What you said is completely opposite of the reality in the monasteries as well as in the world.

[@frankschaeffer8153]

@@johnnyd2383 You're discrespectful and wrong. Please tell me what monasteries you've been to that keep all the rules.

[@johnnyd2383]

@@frankschaeffer8153 Every monastery has a Typikon that is a book of conduct for that specific monastery and they are written at the time of the monastery's inception. Sometimes borrowed from another monastery and adopted for the specific needs of that particular one. They all go by those Typikons and those Typikons are in sync with the canons of the Orthodox Church. I have been at Mt. Athos and was staying there several times as well as monasteries in the Balkans and USA. None of your claims are true. All monasteries I went to were strictly following Typikons they adhere to for many centuries. There is one possibility though... when a bee looks at the field, bee sees flowers everywhere.. when a fly looks at the field, it sees poops everywhere. You may be the later one.

[@frankschaeffer8153]

@@johnnyd2383 More disrespect... If you have really ever been to Orthodox monasteries then I guess none of the spirit rubbed off on you. And really you haven't even addressed the question.

[@johnnyd2383]

@@frankschaeffer8153 Educated people put a question mark at the end of the question. And I can feel your spirit of trashing and smearing Orthodoxy left and right... for that very reason I reacted to your lies. Is that a result of your "pilgrimages".? Shame on you.

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

By norm people should be attending divine liturgy every day, which ends at about 11AM... Going home or workplace takes another hour, preparing meal takes 1 hour I mean to be honest I see no difficulty I've been in this diet without knowing for 6 months even on in other days (because I attended divine liturgy often) Life changes when you live as Christian as much as you can. Really fasting until 3PM is nothing Be stronger people, you start your workday at 6AM yet you can't devote fasting to God? Cheers men

[@RaptorLlama]

In Greece liturgy is generally over by 9 or 10am because Orthros usually starts at 7 at parishes, 6 at monasteries and even earlier at other monasteries (traditionally Orthros starts at the 4th watch which corresponds with 3am, though it isn't exact because time then changed with the amount of sunlight in the day). But also traditionally on a strict fast day that is an "ordinary day" (no feast of rank), at least during one of the 4 fasting seasons, liturgy would not be served that day, but rather Typika with communion (Presanctified during great lent). Now Typika would be served, I believe, after the 9th hour, so it actually wasn't happening until much later in the day I think, but I could be mistaken on that. And of course, 9th hour was 9/12ths of the sunlight of the day, which is 3pm during Equinox (4pm in jurisdictions that observe daylight savings time), but during the height of summer it would be later, perhaps by an hour or two. If you were taking communion, you'd be fasting from midnight from food and water... Suffice to say, you would definitely feel it, and most of us are pretty far from what they were doing

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

Thanks for the detail@@RaptorLlama

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

@@RaptorLlama today I did the same

[@Lucy-qc4iz]

Most have to work and cannot attend Liturgy so often. Liturgy is not offered everyday in most areas of the USA either. This is not an easy teaching.

[@LadyMaria]

I have hypoglycemia, so can't. It is best not to make judgments in others and boast. You may be able to but not all can. You cannot say we are not living as Christian as we can. I will go with my spiritual father. Also we have Liturgy a few times a week, can't always get there but I try.

[@michaelpratts9197]

Genuine confusion on how this mirrors scripture. ‭ ”The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.“ ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭5‬ ‭NIV‬‬ This is what comes to mind and I don’t want to be deceived by my own understanding, just want to know the Lord’s will so I can do it

[@adn8099]

My friend, the fact that The Lord Jesus fasted for long periods does not entail that what he abstained from is created bad, right? Well, similarly, we fast for spiritual benefit, not because said food is "unclean" or "bad" such that we must abstain from it unconditionally. This passage doesn't contradict tradition. It is one thing to regulate, it is another to condemn and do away with it altogether.

[@greenacresorganics7922]

I don't see any value in arguing over legalistic dietary rules. There is no virtue in eating vegan or self destructive fasting. Fasting should be about abstaining from eating for a section of the day, as long as possible. The majority of the dietary rules I've seen are harmful to the body. We should not spite the flesh as the Gnostics did. For the majority of people today who are struggling with their health, the fast rules will only make them worse. This causes many to resent the church or not fast at all. Fasting is a cultural aspect within Orthodoxy and has been done differently at various times and in various places.

[@TheRealRealOK]

Right. These are very strict monastic rules.

[@makingsmokesince76]

This is not a hill I seek to die on, but the references here to the direct Apostolic tradition, as highlighted by Fr. Peter, appears to point at something more significant than mere monastics or legalism. I, for one, shall be praying and fasting on this, as well as research the topic and consult with my Father.

[@Nelson-sr2bi]

Besides, many can fast without actually fasting. There are many decadent foods that are eaten out of pure gluttony that are still fast-friendly. Or even normal foods like bread. I can go through loaves of bread in a single day if it's fresh and tasty. Doesn't mean I'm actually fasting. And I don't really crave meat whatsoever, I eat it more out of necessity to upkeep my strength than out of enjoyment. Something to ask Elder Paisios of Arizona for sure.

[@makingsmokesince76]

@@Nelson-sr2bi I appreciate your perspective and your own experience on this topic, which is very different from my own appetites and inclination. There is certainly much to consider here, more than we probably all realise. Ultimately, let us do all we can, as individual members of His body, to stay in communion with Him. Glory to God.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

In the Orthodox Church we have over 2,000 years of experience with fasting and a multitude of saints who fasted strictly and were healthy and lived long lives. The so-called “dietitians” of our times are irrelevant. Dietary pseudo-science changes courses constantly. What the Church has handed down is how to fast for the soul’s benefit and salvation, not for superficial goals. Fasting according to the Orthodox tradition often improves rather than worsens health, but we are supposed to be guided personally by skilled spiritual fathers who can help apply these teachings within our own circumstances.

[@peterissajenko2311]

How about no food at all just water is that exceptable?

[@johnnyd2383]

Yes, but we Orthodox fast for more than 50% of the calendar days in a year. Fast of the Great lent lasts for 7 weeks. First three days of Great lent fast are those you mentioned. Be realistic... can you fast for more than 50% of the calendar days the way you proposed.?