OSR Replica Dice Unboxing and D&D Dice History Retrospective

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[@Bangelon]

I still have a few sets of the old original dice from the Basic Boxed sets I bought. Nothing beats watching one of the original well used D20s get rolled and seeing it just keep on rolling cause the corners have worn down so much its almost round.

[@captcorajus]

I laughed so hard at this one. Talk about shared experiences. One of our DMs had a d20 like that. We called it 'The Marble'.

[@quantus5875]

Hopefully any sets unopened or not used? Like Captocorajus said these things are work Bank. Found an unopened set (still sealed in the bag) in my 1st Ed Gamma World box -- of the Holmes-era dice -- and yeah -- going rate is around $500. (and over $100 for a beat-up set). Pretty wild for these crappy dice.

[@LibraGamesUnlimited]

I will never forget the sheer joy of opening the box set and seeing those dice and the white Crayola to color in the numbers.

[@comchia4306]

That opening tune gets stuck in my head rather easily. It reminds me of classic MS-DOS games on Soundblaster. :)

[@dndmat]

Lord, you just made me have a flashback. It was a good one but still a flashback. hehe

[@Dracopol]

Yeah, and the game would open with a title in bad phony Medieval calligraphy on a scroll in CGA colours with a title like DUNGEON OF THE UNWISE SUCKAHS or some junk.

[@hoogmonster]

Dungeon of the Unwise Suckahs is definitely the adventure Quentin Tarantino would DM.

[@TheGiantRobot]

I love that you put them into the original box! Put a huge smile on my face.

[@captcorajus]

Glad to hear! It put a big smile on my face too. Wanted to share the joy!

[@WarhavenSC]

There was awhile back in .... 2010? 2012? ... where a long-closed hobby store in Central Mexico had -closed- its assets auctioned. They offloaded all the dice on eBay and I managed to grab a bunch of "Dragon Dice" & "Armory" low impact dice for dirt cheap, including some of the glow in the dark varieties. Then about a week later, they started offloading the Game Science dice (opaque and crystal). Had to buy a bunch of China Markers (grease pencils) to fill in the numbers. :D

[@TheWarwulf]

Great video Cap! Loved seeing those dice slide into the old box set, where they belonged all along...

[@queenannsrevenge100]

Those are fantastic reproductions! It’s like 1978 all over again... 😁

[@captcorajus]

I know, right?

[@fmatson]

Jon Peterson has a fantastic video discussing the history of polyhedrals in the 70's. It's definitely worth a look for those interested in the early days of D&D.

[@Big_Mike001]

OMG! When I tell people about the chits that came in my copy of Holmes basic, they look at me like I've sprouted a second head!

[@captcorajus]

lol

[@claymassingill9589]

Seeing you put those dice in the box in the end made me mad happy for you man. Game on.

[@willmistretta]

Finally got my set today. Couldn't be happier. These are worth every cent.

[@RichardFriendartist]

I definitely remember when the 10 sided die was new. haha

[@quantus5875]

Thanks for a great video!! Yeah -- amazing -- that someone is making replica dice. Very cool -- yeah -- who would have known that the old dice would be worth so much now. Btw: Keep up the great content -- have been a subscriber and have followed you ever since you started posting on KZbin!! I believe you are the first KZbinr that started posting classic/retro AD&D 1st Ed content -- and I thank you for it!!

[@gremilyns]

this was fascinating! the replica dice look fantastic, too

[@MikeWhiskyTango]

I still have those original dice from the 70's. They are all so banged up, pitted and scratched it makes me wonder how I used them.

[@PatriceBoivin]

Mine came with chits too LOL. And the yellowish covered B1 module.

[@captcorajus]

Mine came with Keep on the borderlands. Interestingly enough, that edition of Keep has a few varying art pieces AND Holmes style monster statistics.. i.e. all the monsters have a dex stat for initiative.

[@garryeckert5929]

I still have my first set I bought in 1975.

[@hikikomicklori9290]

Hell yeah. My first set came with a crayon.

[@ardon68]

my first boxed edition of the famous red box basic dungeons and dragons the dice you had to color in

[@SwordlordRoy]

Alas, I am too young even for the Crayon dice...my hunt for a replica of those continues...

[@RyanRoat]

I recently found my old dice bag from high school (mid-1980s) and there's a complete set of the yellow dragon dice. I'm going to suggest my son order a set of these replica dice for his high school (yeah, Prep) strategy gaming club's moderator as a thank you for all the work keeping the club going virtually throughout the quarantine. Also, fun video highlight from Matt Colville's game stream was a player (OD, IIRC) using a Colville provided 0-9 x 2 d20 and getting increasingly frustrated with his poor rolls...til he figured it out and read Matt the riot act. All in good fun, of course. If I'm not mistaken, that occurred during a game separate from their main content, with another DM and Matt and OD both players. So just a little player-on-player crime, there.

[@Dracopol]

10:38 Finally, your Holmes D&D Basic box is pure and whole!

[@quantus5875]

A good story! The set is complete. 😂

[@NefariousKoel]

I liked the "precision" dice which came with the BECMI boxed sets in the 80s. Two shades of the same color in each one. I recall my Expert set came with dark and light blue, for example, and the d20 was actually numbered 1-20. I think they were made by Gamescience, but not sure.

[@Aaron-mj9ie]

I have been looking for dice exactly like these for a long time! Wooh!

[@TheMadRRConductor]

I like it. I grabbed the garycon set for myself.

[@modelsfromscratch]

Late to the party here, but love your video. I, too, am on the quest as I’m missing my original d8 (for years) and d12 (just recently- aaaargh!) polyhedral dice from the late 70s . The others sit, retired, in a display case. I’d forgotten the chits - one of my buddies got them I seem to recall. Great nostalgia- thank you👍👍👍

[@quantus5875]

You can sometimes buy individual dice on eBay. But sadly, these go for $30-$60 ea.!! aye. Yeah, my story is I found a brand-new set (unopened) in my 1st Ed Gamma World Box. I watched a video then went to my storage bins -- no dice -- no dice - no dice -- and then finally opened the Gamma World box and total score!! Unopened Holmes-era set!! Glad I watched these videos I thought these dice were worthless.

[@NatsuMatto]

Wow. Who knew those pieces of junk were worth that much money!? Just found your channel, and I've been going through all of the old TSR module reviews. I was in 4th or 5th grade in the late 70's/early 80's and owned so many of these modules! I had the red & blue Basic/Expert sets, and somehow won a Holmes set through a radio contest in the early 80's (also won a free pass to Gen Con, back when it was being held at UW Parkside in Kenosha, WI!). My Holmes set came with the chits, I believe, but I know I owned one of these horrible sets of dice at some point. Even back then, I hated how cheap and tacky they looked. No idea where they are now, but wish I had them to sell on eBay! Thanks for bringing back so many memories!

[@quantus5875]

Totally - I just checked and I still have my Holmes dice (full set), thought I had thrown them out. Yeah, who knew that crap would be worth $$$. Yeah, over $100 bucks for a set in poor condition. Yikes. There are some serious nostalgia collectors out there.

[@chrisholmes436]

Another fun one. I just learned when the D10 entered the mix. I have only the D8 and the rolly D 10 left. Dad had a pair of Zochi D10's that we shared. He bought them at our first Gen con. Sorry you got stuck with the chits. Looks like you got some nice replacements. ❤

[@quantus5875]

@@chrisholmes436 Cool story on the d10!! On my end in my Gamma World box I found a set still sealed in the bag of unopened Holmes-era TSR dice (apparently the 1st Ed Gamma World box also included Holmes dice). This one is amazing -- I looked for pricing for brand new (still sealed in the bag) new Holmes dice -- and get this -- around $500 a set. Wild. So yeah, glad I watched these KZbin videos about old dice. I thought these crappy dice were almost worthless. Apparently, they are pretty rare -- because I guess everyone though the same thing -- and didn't take care of them. Also, whenever you buy boxed sets they usually don't come with the original dice. You're apparently better off selling the dice separately -- as most people that by boxed sets -- don't price the dice anyway, i.e. they expect there not to be any dice.

[@quantus5875]

btw: I bet if you still have the chits and were never punched out -- probably worth $$$. Punched out -- yeah probably worthless. 😂

[@johnharrison2086]

I used to have a set of yellow Dragon Dice that I had coloured in with a crayon. No idea what happened to them. I might have to get a set of these!

[@theguy3851]

me and my friends jokingly call the original d20 the 20 sided d10!

[@stevenwintersnight1036]

muckbang dice rolling...it was inevitable!

[@Dracopol]

I had ONE set of crappy plastic dice for when I started learning AD&D, and the dice predictably wore their edges off. You also had to ink them yourself, either black marker or fill in with a white crayon. STAR FRONTIERS came with two d10 dice and a crayon to ink them with. The wax would dry and generally behave and stay in for life. But I was glad for high-impact acrylic dice when they became available (around the mid-80s?) The RINGWORLD RPG (Chaosium Inc.), now super-rare, had two 20-sideds with numbers 0-9 but half the numbers had + marks on them to indicate you should add 10 if using them as 1-20 generators. It also had six-siders. Chaosium's Basic Role-Playing system mainly used percentile skill-rolls and d6 and d3 rolls to figure out weapon attacks. After the mid-80s, only game starter-sets included dice and you bought tubes of standard acrylic dice sets of 7 dice from then on. Now (because of greed and the fact that D&D calls for 4d6 in character generation and 2 d20's during Advantage and Disadvantage rolls), they want to bump it up to 11 dice per set so that you pay more! I also have some "soft" plastic dice that change colour with temperature, if you hold them in the hand for a little while.

[@quantus5875]

Not sure if you still have your beat up set still. I didn't believe this -- but a beat-up set of these crappy dice is worth $100+ now.

[@mkiss73]

Good video, I still have the original dice from my Mentzer Basic Set (light blue with white crayon) and Cook Expert Set (yellow with red crayon...ugh).

[@jamesnell1999]

I'm glad you finally got your Holmes Set dice, lol. Adding them to the box was a nice ending.

[@quantus5875]

They found a home. Cool!!

[@mikrogamis721]

Ha Ha Ha! I have those dice! I got them when I bought a copy of the Holmes boxed set about 20 years ago, I just found my missing dice sets two days ago, and there they were! I however still have my original dice from the first Holmes set I got, and yes, they're in worse shape than those. The only true survivor was my brown d4 that is still in somehow good and usable shape. I was lucky enough to get the box set a few months before the dice ran out.

[@quantus5875]

Keep them. 😂 An old beat-up set of the Holmes dice is worth $100+ these days.

[@Jeremy_Fisher]

Beautiful looking dice. I'm in love with the holmes set dice. I've been looking for the same thing for ages, and settled on getting gamescience dice of similar colors. Too bad thresholdDiceworks is sold out of them, I was ready to smash that buy button as soon as I read the title of your video and saw the thumbnail. Oh well, I'll be watching them like a hawk for their next run. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[@captcorajus]

Larry Elmore is awesome. You have good taste! :)

[@zedekiahcrockett4016]

It’s coming back next Friday. Just saw the post on their Facebook. In case you never snagged one.

[@Kammie03]

The only dice bag to match those dice would be a Crown Royal bag!

[@captcorajus]

lol.. yes, I have several of those of course.

[@BriScrye]

Those were my original set!

[@fairytalejediftj7041]

I have one of those burnt orange d20s. 😁

[@quantus5875]

Keep it!! Even 1 die of the Holmes set can go for $30-$60 each. Some people a missing a die or two and want to complete their sets.

[@albanasinia9]

Does anybody know what color dice came with the 1983 red box set? I've seen different sets and each seems to have different colors. Mine came with the white wax crayon.

[@thomasmcdonnell2629]

I have some of those original dice , the d12 and a pink with o to 9 twice and d8. I also have a weird green d10 with 2 flat tops on it . If any wants these tell me.

[@davidmegarrysdungeon6046]

We've traced the existence of complete polyhedral sets to the 50's.

[@Kadath_Gaming]

My kind of geek. Hugs

[@TheValarClan]

Very interesting. Were you aware of Dave Arneson coming in contact with the D20 with his Trip to England? This is how the Minnesota Group, including David Wesely got interested in the D20 around that time. There is a copy of the content of the story about the D20 on Dave Arneson's site.

[@quantus5875]

Never heard that story. From reading Playing at the World -- all of these guys were veteran wargamers and the knowledge of the existence of polyhedral dice was relatively common. Just revolutionary to decide to include them in D&D at the time -- because they were expensive compared to d6. Gygax and Arneson were giants!! - So grateful for what they both created.

[@TheValarClan]

@@quantus5875 You will note in "Playing at the World" that David Wesely, someone who I game with weekly, is the start of Role-Playing games. He is from Minnesota. John get a lot wrong. And I have talked to him about it. David Wesely even brought to his attention where he got stuff wrong. I believe his second book covers more of what he missed. Basically a lot of Gaming historians heard of Wisconsin, heck, its the address of TSR. BUT if you limit yourself to the people in Wisconsin you often NEVER hear what happened earlier in Minnesota starting in 1963. I will have the timetable of events at DaveCON. I will be showing Secrets of Blackmoor. And John's big hang up is original documents, and then he tries to interpret what is in these. He really did not interview the Minnesota crew that much. 1963: MMSA forms. The worlds largest Wargaming group, and also other games. (Minnesota) 1964: David Wesely recruits Dave Arneson who is still in grade school doing gaming. (Minnesota) 1965: David Wesely inspired by Strategoes corals in the various game lawyers in by creating the Referee role (Someone not allowed to play, rules arbiter, and decides WHAT rules are being used or how interpreted.... And sets up the armies, who is who, and enforces fog of war... now the Game Master) Rules Lawyers left for the most part, or adapted. (Minnesota) Games that would take over a year from start to finish, now completed in a night due to less or no arguing. 1968: David Wesely drops all WARGAMING in his Braunstein game. Teases they will do one, but really wants to do a game experiment. John wrongly called this 'proto-roleplaying'. No it was full one Role-playing. Characters with backgrounds, roles, and goals. Senario set up, and the rest was done in dialog. No combat planned..... ..... Then you have Dave Arneson who gets involved in a duel. This ROLE-PLAYING is why Minnesotans who were there do not say it came from Wargaming. Infact many of the players were not strictly wargamers.... 1969: William Hoyt, Dave Arneson, & Gary Gygax discuss forming a fictional world setting with a fictional Medieval setting. (No fantasy discussed.) Much like the Napoleonics That many were doing. Specifically Arneson was doing a not historically accurate Napoleonic campaign. (Wisconsin meeting) Duane Jenkins was doing his BrownStone variant of Braunstein, a Western RPG. Dave Arneson was a major player in it. 1969/70: Arneson decides to do his version of Braunstein, set in Medieval settings. Only he used the Lake Geneva game outcomes as back drop. He immediately started incorporating Fantasy elements, monsters, and spells. And it goes on..... There is no formalized combat matrix, much like Braunstein, until Domesday Book issue number 5. What Arneson refers to as the Chainmail without the Fantasy Supplement. He tries it about 3 times, then the players not liking the brutal combat system, plus it did not work too well in the dungeon, forced him to drop it (not completely) and look for a better system. He pulls the vast majority of combat rules from his own naval game, substituting ships for characters....

[@paulcoy9060]

Wow, there is a lot of space in that box. Surely, TDW has smaller, more efficient, shipping containers?

[@captcorajus]

Certainly, but small boxes can be easily lost in the mail! :)

[@MHDebidour]

Love the rpg dice history

[@unacceptableviews1505]

It funny how people price things way out of range like that.Who in their right mind would pay 145 dollas for old dice?. I really like your dice rolling box,I made myself a tower years ago. Another interesting video Cap.Cheers.

[@MrfnordTim]

I can understand it for one simple reason: Those things were so fragile there can't be that many sets left, at leasy not in good shape. Only collectors are really going to want them, there aren't that many available, and collectors are by definition willing to pay a premium for rare things they're collecting.

[@bhaydon9926]

That D4 looks like it would do D10 damage if you stood on it. I still have my light blue set and yellow dragon set.

[@paulcoy9060]

Still have my first set, as well as the uncut sheet of chits. They hold a place of honor in my dice carrying Plano container. The d4 is the most beaten up, the sides are practically convex from being picked up using three fingers, but all are going to stay with me. Don't know if I would sell them for 100 or even 200 dollars. This are old, original, unique ... okay, maybe 200.

[@quantus5875]

Full unused set of Holmes dice goes for $100+ these days on eBay. They'd have to I think be in really good shape to get $200.

[@robbabcock_]

Fascinating! Personally I have no nostalgia for those old crappy dice! We have it a lot better now. I can't imagine paying big bucks for crappy old ones so soft you can hardly use 'em.

[@captcorajus]

but these are replicas and are not soft. :)

[@quantus5875]

I agree. You can't and I can't -- but yeah and I never knew this -- there are people out there that are. It's essentially nostalgia collectors for the beat-up versions and professional collectors I think that are willing to pay more for unused sets and even sealed sets.

[@marcraygun6290]

I have the d12 , love its uneven sides

[@quantus5875]

btw: a d12 beat up will go for $30-$60 on eBay -- so don't toss it. 😂

[@marcraygun6290]

@@quantus5875 my wonky d12 is my favourite dice, it will be buried with me

[@quantus5875]

@@marcraygun6290 😂 Cool!! Yes, always a good conversation piece.

[@onepinkyoshi9567]

i searched for this literally yesterday how do you know what i’m thinking cap

[@captcorajus]

Its my job to keep my finger on the pulse of the culture brother. lol. :)

[@XX-sp3tt]

What is that beginning intro music?

[@MrRourk]

So interesting story the Makers of Sword World RPG in Japan (Record of Lodoss War Anime) went with a all D6 System. Do to the availability of D6 and scarcity of polyhedral dice in Japan. This trend continues to a degree and is probably why D&D never really took off. That and the Fact that D&D Books don't fit on Manga Shelves at the stores. Something to be said for digest size books.

[@MrVolvobloke]

I remember the dice loosing all their sharp corners and looking decidedly scruffy!

[@paulcoy9060]

"Scruffy" is a highly accurate word to describe my dice.

[@manofaction1807]

I still have my original 1st set. Not sure if I still have the crayon, but I'm sure it's out here, somewhere.

[@quantus5875]

Keep them!! 🙂 Since this video had been released prices have gone up. Full beat-up set is worth $100+ (almost tossed mine years ago but have them), not sure how much a full unused set (opened) is, and a sealed bag set (lucky I have one) is now worth around $500. Yes -- wild!

[@theguy3851]

Can you elaborate on rolling the d20 along with the d6? I'm trying to figure it out but I'm stumped.

[@captcorajus]

Roll a d20 and a d6 at the same time. 1-3 read the d20 as 1-10. 4-6 read the d20 as 11-20.

[@theguy3851]

@@captcorajus thanks! I have a set of not recreations per say but, they are 20 sided d10s. This is useful info.

[@chrisholmes436]

Not too many chit collectors out there.

[@mkiss73]

BTW, I'm getting "This Content Isn't Available Right Now" when I click on your "Facebook: Dungeons and Dragons RPG Reviews" link above.

[@captcorajus]

Fixed it, thanks for the heads up

[@john-lenin]

They’d look nice in a display case - but I’d never want to actually use crappy dice like that again.,

[@drunkendelver1966]

In regards to old ways of rolling a d20 value, I only just yesterday came across that factoid about using a d6 to help determine the result, and I've been trying to research that method's viability and fairness after trying it out with my own dice, namely a d6 for the tens place and a d10 for the single digits. I actually prefer this method, as it just feels better to roll these together than rolling a modern standard d20. Still, researching this method is proving difficult to find much information on, since it's such an obscure thing nowadays. What are your thoughts? I want to make sure that using this method isn't considered cheating, because from the experimentation I've done, the mathematical odds seem to be the same as the standard d20... And honestly, it just feels so damn good to roll those two dice together. lol

[@captcorajus]

Well, do what you want of course. I prefer rolling a d20.... there's some magic when a player rolls a nat 20 at the table ... everyone enjoys that. As far as rolling the d6 to determine 1-10/11-20, mathematically its the same.

[@Sanguivore]

Statistically it’s the same, considering your d6 is either a 10 or a 0 in this case (2 outcomes), and the 0-9 d20/d10 have a total of 10 outcomes. 2 x 10 = 20, so you have a 1/20 (5%) chance of rolling any number, same as any given number on a d20! Have you tried rolling 3d6 instead of 1d20? You may like it! It provides a bell-curve that rewards a character’s modifiers (/proficiency/skill) more than having rolls be decided ~70%+ of the time by sheer randomness (how the d20 operates).

[@drunkendelver1966]

@@Sanguivore It's funny you mention using 3d6. Lately, I've been experimenting with Blueholme (modern version of Holmes Basic), and that game has an optional rule for skill checks where you roll under your stat values with 3d6. I'd been using a d20 for that rule before I found the recommended method in the book. Maybe I should give it a shot.

[@Sanguivore]

@@drunkendelver1966 Highly recommended! Ever since I decided to experiment with 3d6 on a whim, I love it and use it all the time! I also let all my players at my table choose if they want to roll 3d6 or 1d20, and after toying with it for a while, they’ve all decided they like 3d6 more. Speaking of, how you liking Blueholme vs. something like Basic Fantasy? I have Blueholme on my shelf and I’ve been meaning to try it and give it a read!

[@ethancooper1056]

Such a big box for such a small thing...

[@captcorajus]

Wouldn't want it to get lost in the mail!!

[@ethancooper1056]

captcorajus suppose that’s a fair point. They are super cool dice. Seems so weird to think that I’m the beginning d10s just weren’t a thing, especially when you think about how world of darkness as a system relied on them not so many years later.

[@captcorajus]

Its just a matter of entomology of the game. The dice were originally mathematical educational tools based on the five platonic solids. They were adopted into the game from that. Later on, the decahedron shape was adapted to the game as a natural evolution based on the needs of the game.

[@CBs_Bill_from_Montana]

He could sell 100 of these a week without trying

[@captcorajus]

You're not wrong. The problem is each set is meticulously hand made, so he can only make so many sets at a time.

[@fleetcenturion]

A nice history, but I'm just not feeling the nostalgia.

[@quantus5875]

That's a good thing. I myself would never pay $$$ for these old dice either. But yeah -- strangely enough there are people that are. Replica dice is not a bad compromise IMO. I myself would never buy a replica set -- but I get it for those that do.

[@fleetcenturion]

@@quantus5875 - The original dice were badly made, and the plastic was much too soft. Thankfully, the game caught on, and better manufacturers started making better dice.

[@quantus5875]

@@fleetcenturion Agreed. It is the crappy, cheap dice that are worth a ton -- because the old OD&D set and Holmes set dice are rare and collectors want them. Yeah, as far as "use" went I went to a better set of dice in 1979 and never looked back -- although just glad I didn't throw my original set away.