Lessons in Magecraft 27 - Heroic Spirits

This series goes over the lore behind the magic system in Fate, Type Moon, and the Nasuverse at large. Our 27th Lesson in Magecraft covers Heroic Spirits, used by mages as Servant familiars.
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#VTuber

[@otakudaikun]

If you had to maintain a servant, what would you do to provide them with mana? Would that depend on the type of servant in question?

[@pavelmotal3593]

I would mostly let them choose the method, but if the situation would called for it more dramatic way must be used (killing children is the only exception)

[@auraaetherbladesigma6939]

Blood, very good for instant mana transfers. And more ethical depending on the method of getting said blood.

[@weltmano6091]

Ultimately it would come down to the servant in question, but I'm open minded ;) Thanks as always for another awesome vid Dai-kun! Funny enough, today is actually my birthday, and it was a nice surprise to wake up to a new episode of the lessons in magecraft. Keep up the good work and looking forward to the next episode.

[@thirdplanet4471]

I wouldn't be above having my servant kill the most wanted criminals for mana starting with depopulating prisons and hopefully if it's a female servant l would love to "have some fun" at least once

[@anadaere6861]

Blood, kissing Sex is the 3rd answer Unless it's fucking Eresh, then it's the 4th, because I can't survive sex for 7 days and 7 nights

[@mistertaz94]

Gaia and Alaya's relationship is best summed up by a quote from G Gundam. "You seek to restore nature to the planet, but those humans you want to destroy are part of nature in the first place!"

[@GnosisZX]

The will of man and will planet should have been one but something happened that separated humans from the planets will unknown what that was

[@darknessknows1235]

tbh that's not even really connectable to the Fateverse.

[@logicaltips4107]

This would fit wonderfully in Ultraman Gaia. Gaia vs Agul is basically this argument

[@captainvalourous6668]

@@GnosisZX Well I assume that Alaya's separation with Gaia was caused by the White Titan's invasion. Just in case you dont know long story short at the peak of the Age of Gods a powerful alien starship called the Umbral Star summoned 3 Velbers, her minions, to Earth and lay waste upon it. While it is unknown what happened to the other 2 Velbers one of the 3, Velber 2, named the White Titan and she battled the Mythological Gods until a Nameless Human defeated the White Titan through the power of the Planet's Holy Sword the Excalibur. On the aftermath of the White Titan Invasion, the Mythological Gods were left weakened and shattered wreck of their former selves thus begins the downfall of the Age of Gods and the Rise of Age of Men meaning that with the Gods who were the servants of Gaia have dwindled this allow Alaya to become a separate independent will from Gaia as Humanity began to grow and Evolve.

[@GnosisZX]

@@captainvalourous6668 better than the scenario in lost belt six fairies didn’t make Excalibur instead they retreat reverse side and without Excalibur humanity and gods don’t stand a chance and get wiped out one human left a priestess of a god that didn’t participate directly in that war the same god gaia sent to punish the fairies for not doing there job And we all know it goes down hill from there

[@MsAnimefan95]

Various Fate Protagonists: Hey, instead of abusing Heroic Spirits and treating them like tools, what if we were nice to them and treated them like friends and trusted comrades? The Mage Association: Incomprehensible, have a terrible day.

[@anadaere6861]

Various Nasuverse protagonist: Two words. Be nice The Clocktower: One word. No Atlas: Is niceness quantifiable? Can it be weaponized? WS: *silence*

[@SpaceWizardCosplay]

Honestly, I feel the same way. Treat them like your very best friend. How hard is that?

[@GnosisZX]

Royal servants are the hardest to handle you cant simply order them around

[@GnosisZX]

@@anadaere6861 and Solomon made the very magic system they use wonder how he feels about clock tower and asshole mages

[@anadaere6861]

@@GnosisZX King Solomon: Ok in hindsight, I was pretty shit to what is essentially my adopted kids but y'all didn't have to roleplay so hard you also become shit to HS

[@neah4382]

When I was just starting to watch fate animes, servants' lore always excites me because you can learn from it as it is not the far from the real historical information but then fgo happens and I don't know what to believe anymore. Besides that I just learn that each class has a unique trait in them. Such as: -Sabers must have beams -Archers can really just throw anything -lancers have terrible luck -riders can just ride whatever, whoever they want -assassins' presence concealment can also be translated as "if no one's alive then it can be consider as stealth" -casters are the overwork servants -berserkers means red cards.

[@tonyinfinite5174]

What about the other classes Rulers Are mediator Avengers are edgy Alter Egos are mental Moon Cancers are inclusive And Foreigner are eldritch With Pretenders avoiding copyright

[@minthuta3288]

@@tonyinfinite5174 Most Rulers are WWE fighters.

[@Florkl]

The editing seems slightly off in this one with long, weird pauses in narration, but that aside it was an exceptionally educational video, and I now understand servants a lot better. Thanks!

[@madambutterfly1997]

Poor King Hassan. He was too pure to be a servant of Chaldea.

[@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723]

If we wanted more modern 20 century heroes, Simo Hayha "The White Death" in Fate certain servants be like Scatcha: A true warrior beyond simply skilled, with a heart of fire, forged in battle, tempered in bloodshed, humbled even from youth by a sense of duty Skadi: The cold winds shroud him, akin to a cloak, he is kindred to me, yet I sens Sol warmth in his soul and Thor's favour on him as well, Ereshkigal: He bears the marking of death on his soul, he has walked with it, yet his strength never falters, Anastasia Nikolaevna Romanova: The coldest ice caves of Siberia are warmer than his very presence, Achilles: Those eyes, the look of a soldier from countless battles, he has stared down his own death and won Manfred von Richtofen "The Red Baron" Alexander the Great: King of the Sky, let's see who is fastest! Achiles: Alright now we're cooking gas!

[@shaestroup2044]

When I watch tgese videos I always imagine myself as a mage in an actual lecture. Super fun

[@nobalkain624]

This really help me understand some things much better. I always thought the Holy Grail WAS the Throne of Heroes. Now I understand its more of a Back Door used by Mages to access it. Thanks Dai.

[@redditreader9875]

One underrated part of the lore is the fate series version of Multiverse theory. There are sometimes when time travel is a different timeline in general and sometimes when it is true time travel through the manipulation of true magic or reality itself. This variety of philosophy and theoretical fantasy is a big reason the fate series is so interesting

[@sidrezig4449]

Berserker are so cool they can be mad out of mind or by how history remember them

[@NekoKat.]

While I might be willing to go a little further than some to provide mana to a servant. I have to say it would still depend on the servant in question since there are ways of getting mana that some servant absolutely refuse to do. To me those command spells are far to valuable to waste on pissing off my servant.

[@aynonymos]

Well, I just crammed the entire course, can't wait for the next lesson, it's hard to keep up with the source material, for various reasons, so I'm glad KZbin recommended this series.

[@sdbzfan1]

So someone a while back noticed that every grand servant isnt just summoned to counter beasts but specific beast given the thing that qualified them as grand in the first place Solomon as grand caster was chosen because of his clairvoyance but his np also directly counters goetia and makes it possible to hit him with other noble phantasm King Hassan has been and continues to be the only grand assassin thanks to his ability to grant the concept of death on the unkillable this made him the counter to tiamat The servant that made me believe this was the case was recently added to fgo arcade the grand Rider Noah and how his arc is meant to save all life on earth from a great flood, and what beast is revealed non other than mother harlot of beast 6r, something arthur mentioned about both beast 6 halves is it is sunonomus with mud and mother harlot mentions how she wants to drown the world in his dark grails mud Kama has the ability to become the universe and be everything which also means nothing while Romulus the grand lancer and hurt anything he gives the roman trait to and has the passive to be emmune to charm something kama uses all the time Super orion is greeces greatest hunter and archer and beast 4 both primate murder and koyanskya are related to animals, this one is probably the most flimsy but it adds up, the only grand not accounted for who deals with kiara but considering noah deals with both beast 6r and beast l, romulus probably counters kiara aswell as kama given kiara's goal is to be the universe and engulf all in her and kama just is thanks to how she died

[@armando8800]

Few things tho. For one, the counter force always goes a step above the threat. Regardless of the level it may be. So whatever the counter force sends, it's powered up enough to deal with the threat. Solomon wasn't chosen/sent by the counter force to deal with goetia. He foresaw what would occur and deliverately set things up so that there would be a way to defeat goetia. He specifically designed a special np in case goetia manifested as he doesn't manifest in some timelines, because Lev Lainur didn't have his demon god pillar awaken. Beast VI isn't halves. It's compossed of 4 parts. Mother harlot is Beast VI/S (sodom's beast). But there's also Beast VI/G, VI/R and VI/L. Romulus wasn't chosen to deal with kama. She specifically designed the labyrinth so that the counter force wouldn't send anyone in there to mess with her plan. Orion wasn't chosen to fight primate murder. Primate murder was fully defeated when he used all of his sanity/stored power to pull of the equivalent of true magic in the solomon singularity.

[@sdbzfan1]

@@armando8800 so while i didnt know about the Beast 6 parts non of this was to be official just a discussion i saw years back about beasts being directly countered by grand servants My reasoning for Kama and Koyanskya is specifically because of the things they are famous for Beasts have Nega Skills, and these skills seemed to even if by conincedence line up with the Grand Servants, Beast 6 for example is a mud monster and mother harlots grail spills more, Noah in arcade was summoned as the grand servant to help in the fight with her as his Ship/Arc is meant to bring hope into the future Kama's Nega skill along side her lore made her impossible to hit story wise as she is "everything" in side the ooku, Romulus then by making it so everything he encompases leads to rome and by extension letting the party hit enemies for more damage with the roman trait he can put on enemies would allow them to hit her Orion is Greese's greatest hunter and while he didnt understand why he was summoned as a grand servant his skill set as a hunter would allow him more of an advantage over an enemy with the beast attribute, even when the Tunguska raids were happening Orion was a viable damage option thanks to his Beast and Demonic Modifier on his First skill same in olympus when she first was fightable Again non of this is 100% confirmed just a list of comparrisons next to things that even if by accident still make logical sense

[@armando8800]

@@sdbzfan1 I just feel like you are connecting some dots where there aren't any to be connected. Kama's nega-desire is that since she can drown anyone inside her domain with infinite love, then all of their desires would fade away. Romulus=Quirinus was specifically chosen to be the main way of dealing with Zeus because of how close he is to the greek pantheon, and him being a demiurge chief god of the roman pantheon and being fully human which makes him a candidate for grand. His np was used to remove concepts from Zeus that made him practically invulnerable. Hence why the gang finally managed to defeat Zeus. Let alone sherlock's massive support in the entire lostbelt. And yes, Orion was chosen to deal with the partial beast manifestation of Tamamo vitch. But not for primate murder. We don't really even know what primate murder is. It'd make sense for it to be some type of beastial creature but, fgo can be weird sometimes. And we'll likely never know from it.

[@sdbzfan1]

@@armando8800 thats fine, i know i said beast 4 specifically because koyanskya was trying to be the new beast 4, while romulus just seemed like the only one that could have fought kama properly without the need for the solution they did find

[@mohamedalattas901]

Nice job at this lesson... i also took notice you added numbers to your lessons, as i requested from you. Thanks a lot for listening to your fans requests... and keep up the good work.

[@sabithasajan5564]

Woooooohooooooooo YEAH BOI! I absolutely LOVE your magecraft series the main reason why I love this channel

[@pyronable]

I've been awaiting this video. And I can't wait to talk about the Noble Phantasm

[@timothyxv171mmmpertinentgamer]

Awesome class I'm learning Otaku is my pleasure to know about magecraft I love it all true supernatural forces is perfect I'm possessing secret skills to creating my own kind by performing magic but most of the time I am brave to step up and become successful with power it depends who is chosen to connect yes is a super desire I understand heroes are coming to visit me in my time as Alliances or friends high servants perform they're own great works with phantom spirits also yes heroes are learning a new lesson everytime while the system is required to recruit. New friends, alliances, I always think servants are becoming assassins, casters, mages, maintain their own rules, powers Is true higher servants are stronger like goddesses or theirselves becoming as one...!!!

[@alexisyukioyamato1127]

I love this videos I watch the play list 3 times

[@stevepitt-ash4628]

Yesss another lesson thank u dai this will be a great to thing to listen to as I play elden ring I'm trying to make a archer emiya build given how some spells summon magic swords

[@alexanderamaro1257]

Very interesting and detailed

[@bingo784]

*WOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo~!* Yeah Baby! That's what I've been waiting for! That's what it's all about!

[@llovitcarlmikkem.2155]

Well, we might need a counter guardian soon, but who knows

[@monsoul777]

im quite fond of the idea of class cards Imagine a counter guardian class called Summoner who has a deck of Class cards

[@dz1700]

Thanks

[@whitefox3189]

Almost all servants are being who existed. Sasaki didn't exist, so a man unknown to human history was given the identity of Sasaki. Only beings who truly did not exist are concuptual servants like Nursery Rhime, Pale Rider and Maxwell's Demon.

[@Aesc_the_voyager]

Hope one day there will be a video that talks about a servants abilities and noble phantasms And how to would be in a real grail war

[@aminebachir3394]

Let's go! Just in time when I was bored

[@laxus155]

I rather enjoy these lessons they are rather informative and enjoyable

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

So if the earth were to suffer from some unnamed calamity, would the heroic spirits be summoned 'automatically'?

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

@this city is really a city Oh, so it depends on who or what is the threat. Thank you for explaining.

[@otakudaikun]

As part of the counter force, yes.

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

@@otakudaikun Just like EMIYA, only for a slightly different purpose.

[@douglastang123]

a tangent, fgo should implement an additional np knowing that each servant has more than one.

[@Migerthor]

Servants are just a parcel of a Heroic Spirit, and only the World can control full heroic spirits. Because of that grand servants aren't the powerful heroic spirits. True heroic spirits would have all skills and noble phantasm of all versions of their legends, and probably way more powerful physically, that's because classes are only limitations.

[@Sawtooth44]

as a creature that dose not exist in the worlds of Fate i too act as a servant when it comes to dealing with problems and being summoned, often my god summons me in the wake of great fires to help put them out, sometimes Gaia or Alya beat them to it allowing greater options for assistance and locations as they can create fire anywhere in the world to summon me, rarely though a Master who heard of me can call on my aid only if there is a direct connection to fire like Shirou Emiya and surviving the fire at the end of the 4th grail war, housing the ultimate foundry of weapons and him partly seeing himself with fire due to the UBW chant mentioning it, after the summoning is done however the mana requirement to keep me around is Zero due to me not being dead but rather will need heat in order to live while as a servant this becomes a skill called Independent Manifestation (False) due to the fact that i cant summon myself but once there i can maintain myself until death, perfect for masters like Olga Marie or Shinji who are not fit to be one or Shirou who at the start of the grail war had under used magic circuits and couldent provide enough mana to Artoria of course though since i am alive i can also become a Master and have done so in a few branch timelines of the 5th grail war, the grand order and the moon cell wars that where doomed to fail but since i am a creature of fire and almost no different to fire elementals in the universe i lack any natural means of mana generation, said problem was fixed with the combination of my own gods power and stealing rough ideas from other universes to create the item called a Clockwork Heart, said hearts turn heat into mana essentially the reverse of Magic Circuits and can be installed into servants to act as there own heart allowing servants so long as they dont fight to live a 2nd life, although a unexpected side effect of these hearts is that weapons like Gae Bolg will target these hearts instead of the spirit origin or saint graph allowing them to tank a single blow to the heart with no damage to the spirit origin or saint graph except for the area that the blow has to pass through

[@carlosgarza400]

Hopefully in the next lesson we can address what Iskandar said in the Fate/Zero dub about noble phantasms

[@otakudaikun]

The thing about only having one?

[@carlosgarza400]

@@otakudaikun yes

[@ren_suzugamori1427]

I never heard you talk about the class card system. If you ever get to go into the specifics, I would appreciate that because I'm trying to understand that system.

[@otakudaikun]

That's actually the paid lesson I'm planning for April.

[@ren_suzugamori1427]

@@otakudaikun I just have a question about that. When do each paid lessons come onto KZbin for free?

[@otakudaikun]

@@ren_suzugamori1427 The paid ones are like 4 months ahead of the public ones.

[@ren_suzugamori1427]

@@otakudaikun understood

[@thirdplanet4471]

That moment when you realise heroic spirits are quite literally murder machines

[@Kylar195]

How does it comes, that many servants, who are summoned through the counterforce, doesn‘t know, what exactly their task are? As example Jeanne doesn‘t really know for what exactly she was needed as a ruler. Muramasa in FGO doesn‘t know, for what he was summoned. In Lost Belt 1 doesn‘t the rough servants know, for what they was summoned. For a system, which use heroic spirits as a defense mechanism, it should be expected, that the spirits get told, what they should do.

[@otakudaikun]

My honest answer is that the counter force is horrible at its job. It's almost more machinelike than deliberate. As for Jeanne in Apocrypha, that was in a man-made grail war, but for others, I agree it would be better to make their purpose clearer.

[@michaelmooney7572]

Hope you do more servant lore soon

[@otakudaikun]

I'm planning to do Quetzalcoatl soon.

[@Wimplo86]

Mmm, would like to learn more about the biology of servants for…scientific purposes

[@sonicchaos-ir9kw]

I'm sorry if there is a lesson on this topic, but could you do a video on the great mage families?

[@otakudaikun]

Hmm... I'm not sure I could name them off the top of my head. It'd be going through the lords I guess.

[@sonicchaos-ir9kw]

@@otakudaikun ok, I'm sorry for any inconvenience this question might have brought you. I actually got into fate and the nasuverse through your channel so I thought it could be an interesting topic.

[@otakudaikun]

@@sonicchaos-ir9kw No it's a good idea. That's just me legitimately considering it and if it's something I'm equipped to do.

[@arthurpettigrew3074]

Something I'm wondering...what is considered the standard by the Throne of Heroes for any one individual to become a Heroic Spirit in the first place? Or is there even a standard for such that can be comprehended by the human mind? The reason I ask is because, for a fanfic-concept-brewer like myself...I am aware that one can make up any specific reason for the existence of Heroic Spirit outside the official ones made by Type-Moon...but for those who want to have some sort of guideline for how a Heroic Spirit is recognized as such...is there a way to quantify the process? Maybe such already exists and I'm just looking in the wrong places...but I know that some people find it easier to have a template for an idea that can be developed over time rather than design someone entirely from scratch.

[@otakudaikun]

It's honestly pretty loose. If a figure is famous enough, and might just be based off a real person, it's game.

[@mateomorales1653]

super late reply sorry, the qualifications for being a heroic spirit is leaving behind a impression on the idea of the grand order (humanity) so being so influential that alaya recognizes you like heroes who influenced civilization or cultures, or being an idea that resonates in some way shape or form with humanity like is the case with Nursery Rhymes not being an actual entity, or in the case of the lovecraftian Foriegners being a phantom of someone not influential enough to be a proper heroic spirit but the influence of the outer gods giving enough juice to their spirit cores to basically jump the fence like Hokusai or Van Goh being tied to Cthulu and Gsarthotegga

[@TheManastein]

I thought it’d be longer

[@otakudaikun]

The video? It's only ever as long as I have things to say about it.

[@shahdangalahad698]

Fujimaru Ritsuka can Summons and Controls Hundreds of Heroic Spirits.

[@Tyracus]

Only a few at a time and with the assistance of an entire support system to help manage and fuel them. It’s why his command seals regenerate over time where they did not in the Holy Grail Wars of the other Fate series. That or they are fueled/summoned as part of the singularity/lost belt. Even the mass summoning in Solomon was specifically possible because there was a beast involved and the events happened outside the normal constraints of space/time so the throne could effectively fudge things.

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

@@Tyracus Also his outfit was pumping something into him before he start chanting

[@hellrider22393]

5:46 Nero looks fucken delicious

[@paolohonrade9164]

Despite how informative this video was, I'm still confused by the nature of Heroic Spirits. Specifically, the Grand Servant. Like, I know the requirements all that, but I just can't seem to grasp the need of a Grand Servant. From what I understand on this video, and my own research, Magus's can't summon Heroic Spirits because it's too difficult and are beyond them, so they developed the Servant System instead. Servants are a subset of Heroic Spirits; beings made by the Holy Grail by creating cheap bodies to hold a portion of a Heroic Spirit power. Not only that, but these beings are divided into classes, each with it's own set of unique skills and parameters. Some Servants can be summoned in different classes, because they had many different talents and skills in their life. Like Cu who is a master spearman but is also a capable mage in Rune Magecraft. If he is summoned as a Lancer he'll have stats suitable for close range combat, if his summoned as Caster he has stats with a high mana pool. Though he still capable of using runes in his Lancer, and is still has martial skills in Caster form, those aspects are nerfed in their respective bodies, because their vessel weren't built on accommodating all of his skills. Not to mention that each class has a unique Noble Phantasm. Only the World itself (Gaia) is capable of summoning a True Heroic Spirit. From what I understand, "True" Heroic Spirits aren't limited by classes. They have all of their skills and talents available, with a parameters to compliment it. And they are only called upon if the world is in danger. But that's like the same function of a Grand Servant. If you boil it down, is just the same, only they have the condition of only being summon against a Beast class enemy, which supposedly make them the strongest, yet they're not as great as a "True" Heroic Spirit 😅. Like Grand's are still divided by classes, which means their stats and skills are narrowed down on a specific field of combat that the hero is good at, even if they have talents on other fields. Yes, I know that they're suppose to be the best at what they can do, but why limit your last line of defense and not let them have the stats to compliment all of their strengths? Not only that, there are strict requirements to become a Grand Servant, and even if you do become a Grand you can lose the title if you decided to be generous without Gaia's consent. Like seriously, why is that a thing? King Hassan lost his Grand title because he was helping Chaldea, even though he was fighting a Beast of Calamity, the sole reason why his position EXISTS in the first place. This is also makes me question the existence of Heroic Spirits in general. Because the Throne of Heroes was made to have warriors that counter against threats against the world, the Grands covered that. Then we have Counter Guardians who prevent possible threats from rising up, or ambitious mages close to reaching the Root. Everything else in-between seems unnecessary. Unless I'm missing something that still give purpose to other Heroic Spirits. I just can't seem to understand what sets these different variations apart.

[@otakudaikun]

It definitely is confusing. So the throne of heroes also uses the class system. Mages are just borrowing that system when they use servants as familiars. As I understand it, the grands exist specifically to counter the beasts and receive extra power to do so. Your average heroic spirit is just famous enough that the throne records them if they're ever needed. Counter guardians specifically make a contract with the planet for their services, allowing some people to become servants even if they weren't famous enough to be recorded normally.

[@paolohonrade9164]

@@otakudaikun Thank you for the response. Really appreciate it😃

[@noahweathers4408]

I’m thinking of six different Servants that I could face fighting beside Paris, Helena or MHX Alter in a standard Holy Grail War. MHX Alter would of course have to fight Mysterious Heroine X herself, Paris would be pitted against Achilles and Helena would face either Rama, Arjuna or Karna. Can you think of one more Servant for each of them to face that would be extremely difficult? I feel like anyone who’s really tough and fast would be a nightmare for Paris, hence Achilles, but maybe you could think of somebody else? If they have high Magic Resistance then Helena’s in trouble, and I’m totally blanking on another opponent for X Alter.

[@otakudaikun]

I'd be more compelled by matchups that cause the characters emotional struggle, like Artoria and Lancelot for instance.

[@noahweathers4408]

@@otakudaikun I could see a confrontation with Hector as being very painful for Paris, as well as Menelaus, the one who snatched Helen away, and publicly beat him in a duel. Helen herself as a Servant would probably be painful, but since she had zero records of being a fighter, it would probably just be a question of whether or not Paris had it in him to strike her down. Too bad neither she nor Menelaus have been seen in Fate thus far. As I have stated before, a true deathmatch between MHX Alter and MHX could be a very emotional affair, with both of them letting out very personal feelings of betrayal and anguish over a friend lost. Being forced to fight PHH Agravain who is both utterly pragmatic and cruel and would know nothing of X Alter while he reminds her painfully of Master Agravain could be very nasty for her. It would be difficult for Helena to face that many of her peers and rivals as Servants since most of them would probably be magi and she’s already present as Caster. Tesla could show up as Archer, but that’s about it.

[@otakudaikun]

@@noahweathers4408 That's definitely more what I'd wanna read.

[@noahweathers4408]

I’ve decided to keep Achilles and add one Servant who would definitely not be allying with Paris, and by necessity one of a handful of Servants able to fight Achilles one on one: Cú Chulainn Alter. That’s two extremely powerful Heroic Spirits in this Grail War, and definitely motivation enough for our wimpy little Archer to be seeking help, and leave the others desperate enough not to turn him away at once. It’s all about the balance of power. Achilles and Cú Alter are the predators circling on top, Paris is a bottom feeder too minuscule to notice, and the other four should be somewhere in between. I may go with the idea of including Hector as well, but it remains to be seen.

[@GnosisZX]

Can the original hero be summoned instead of a copy

[@SpaceWizardCosplay]

I think it depends on how well-known the original hero is, and isn't based upon inaccurate 'historical' records.

[@GnosisZX]

@@SpaceWizardCosplay artoria is probably the original so is gilgamesh as he will suffer no copies or fakers

[@otakudaikun]

Pretty much just Artoria due to a rare circumstance. Generally it's pretty semantic.

[@GnosisZX]

@@otakudaikun didn’t artoria make some pact with the planet? If true that would make her like emiya a counter guardian

[@SpaceWizardCosplay]

@@GnosisZX Oh, that actually makes sense. As for Gilgamesh, I wouldn't doubt it. 🤣

[@azuredragon9276]

ok I need to address the elephant in the room here (if someone summoned Ganesh or Ivan that could be taken literally for a change) but why are heroic spirits called servants when 9 out 10 times they are stronger than their masters? if anything it kinda feels like it should be the other way round Gilgamesh is the perfect example for this: do you honestly think that the OG hero wielding a slide pop that can nuke reality would ever acknowledge us as a master or anything other than a mongrel?

[@otakudaikun]

Easy, because servants need mana from a master to remain in the world. You're right about Gilgamesh tho. He demands you treat your mana as an offering to him. He refuses to be subordinate.

[@azuredragon9276]

@@otakudaikun OBEJECTION!! remember Giles de res in zero? ryonuske isn't a mage so could he provide mana?

[@otakudaikun]

@@azuredragon9276 He actually was a mage. Or rather his descendants were. He was screwing around with their old rituals trying to summon a demon.

[@alias0612]

Minor Question: Can you reject becoming a Heroic Spirit, if you want?

[@clothar23]

I doubt it. Since the legend that makes a Hero a Hero isn't exactly something that is within a individual's control. You can't control what people think of you or how they'll remember you. Really it's a sobering thought. Rise up to face the evils and trials of your time . And risk becoming recorded in the Throne. Or stand uselessly by and watch it all burn.

[@otakudaikun]

Usually if you have lingering regrets or desires it'll use you. Seems most servants want to be summoned. Never really explored one who didn't.

[@user-nb8nk6zm7s]

@@otakudaikun They explore abit on one who didnt which is Scheherazade who didnt want to be summoned because she would die again but was forced to become a servant anyway initially

[@henriquekovalski8099]

yes, you can, Van Gogh is an perfect example, unfortunelly, for him, the outter god don't care.....

[@goddhowardalter8929]

We all know emiya is best heroic spirit dont @me

[@anadaere6861]

I do like how EMIYA is the most unoriginal HS but at the same time, the most original as he is a damn OC

[@albertoluis1544]

2:09 um... Kiara is *FUCKING* somebody?!?!

[@otakudaikun]

I think she's just sitting by a corpse. Not out of character if she were tho.

[@ivanbluecool]

I would summon a caster who could try to sustain themselves with a field to gain a territory. That would be smartest way to go. The root and clocktower trying to reach it will never happen as the root is protected and would destory anyone who gets there while clocktower will limit anyone who has potential for higher levels of magic which is a catch 22 situation. The system being originally only heroes like artoria and such who were only about justice was fine but somehow the wars never finished and angra only made it worse with Medusa and Medea or any evil servants being added after the curruption of the system made it worse. Then we have fgo where rules don't matter as lostbelt servants can't be summoned if logic was a thing as they never existed. Wish they kept doing it like Anastasia having two different personalities instead of just make it lostbelt. But still at the end of the day gilgamesh and enkidu are the top servants still by nasu himself with ozymandias and hercules archer a close second. Grands honestly didn't like as much in part 2. Nasu and co keep making up rules for why other servants can't be grand despite being stronger or better than the actual grand Servants in many ways.

[@ollin-tonatiuh6418]

The virgin Super Orion VS The CHAD Emiya.

[@ACertainMan]

Top servants are Gilgamesh, Ozy, Enkidu and Artoria, Archer herc is featless and Avenger herc is weak. On a statement basis Archer herc is on par with Achilles who is more so Greek Cu than anything else. Grands are just situational as we seen in every case, if they wanted fire power they would have summoned Excalibur user or Gil to just blast them

[@ivanbluecool]

@@ollin-tonatiuh6418 honestly emiya is a glass cannon. At a distance he can snipe artoria level enemies but up close he will melt immediately

[@ivanbluecool]

@@ACertainMan artoria isn't that strong. Like 3 of her round table are better than her in battle. Lancleot definitely as he almost killed her even in zero. Galahad who is better than lancleot being a fan fic and Gawain/mordred could be number 3 as mordred did beat artoria who cheated by somehow getting her lance and Gawain is extremely powerful. Even in fsn she loses to gilgamesh hercules and cu. Emiya can beat her if he Snipes her while the other three aren't affected much by emiya The tops are gilgamesh and enkidu for being extremely broken in every way. I mean gilgamesh could end fsn in Less than a day if he was serious. Strange fake already won if enkidu didn't stop him. Fgo has to in canon be said not be able to get summoned in lostbelt as he could just nuke most of them aside lb 5. Hercules was so powerful he is illegal in the apoc war. Ozymandias had to be rushed by many servants and so powerful he survived gramps assasination and his Sphinx are servant level. Dante's is an edgy OC who was made broken as strong as he is edgy. Artoria wouldn't be able to beat any of these guys I mean like 5 or 6 servants in fsn and zero can beat her if not for plot.

[@ollin-tonatiuh6418]

@@ivanbluecool True, but still a better choice for Grand Archer over Super Orion.

[@benjamindonahue9434]

As much as I love the FATE series this is the part of the lore that always nags at me. Since the summonings are based on their fame it doesn't make sense to me that you could summon a male or female version of a heroic spirit that differs from their known history. Even if I consider that it could be a version from another timeline the lore doesn't seem to do a good job of expressing that is what's happening and does at least make it seem like there has to be a catalyst to bring them to that point such as Rin's Pendant summoning Archer Emiya.

[@otakudaikun]

The gender bends are usually Fate saying they've always been that way.

[@benjamindonahue9434]

@@otakudaikun I get that and it was a really cool twist at first, but the more I learned about it it seemed like more of a disconnect. Artoria is the only one I remember ever actually making a case that the people around her hid that she was female. Which would be fine on it's own, but servents manifest with abilities and equipment based on their accepted history. Some are even completely fictional but so famous they made the cut. To me this means that the throne records and summons what is commonly accepted vs what is actually true, and the gender bending starts to seem inconsistant.

[@elecrom_9757]

@@benjamindonahue9434 Technically Artoria (as a normal Saber atleast) could be considered an exception because she is always summoned from just before her death and you could say she is not affected by it, but all the others like Drake, Ushiwakamaru etc. should be summoned as a male because they are widely regarded as male. The only reason this would not be the case is if any alteration would result in the Servant having the Innocent Monster skill, which would make it so that basically everyone would have it.

[@benjamindonahue9434]

@@elecrom_9757 I get where you're going, but I think I disagree. No matter which variant of a servant is summoned they all seem to possess memories up to, and including their death even if their form is far before it. Some even openly discuss the differences between themselves like Iskandar. At the same time I can't recall anything too specific about when heroic spirits are actually recorded though so I can't say it's entirely impossible that say Arthur Pendragon is speciffically the heroic spirit generated by the legend of King Arthur vs the history (and that would actually justify all of them). If that's the case though I would still think they should specify what causes one to be summoned vs the other. Over all just wish there was something actually confirming that. Still love them, but right now it just feels like a big inconsistancy for the sake of making waifus XD

[@elecrom_9757]

@@benjamindonahue9434 No what I meant was that Artoria technically never dies because she made a pact with the Counterforce. And so she is summoned from before her death not after it like other Servants

[@thewizardnet]

Holy shit. Maximillion Pegasus reincarnated in the real world. It's time for me to find the millennium puzzle.

[@mcatoz3438]

I want to recommend a visual novel English name You and me and her : a love story . trust me this is not a love story you think. Do you know a anime or visual novel named school days yeah the visual novel is like that but the characters knows that they are in a game . the game is more like ddlc. If you can please please please do a video on it just like how you did your tsukiheme videos I would very appreciative and be thankful if u at least watch a walk thro of it and please let me know what do u feel about.

[@VacadoRay]

Come on summoning let me summon a hot female servant....... (Replies be nice)

[@otakudaikun]

You and most everyone else lol

[@VacadoRay]

Alright everyone who have I summoned:......

[@GnosisZX]

My most recent summon was both versions of Atalanta