Lessons in Magecraft 30 - Time and Adjacent Worlds

This series goes over the lore behind the magic system in Fate, Type Moon, and the Nasuverse at large. Our 30th Lesson in Magecraft covers all things pertaining to time. Timelines, adjacent worlds, pruning, lostbelts, singularities, and parallel universes.
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#VTuber

[@otakudaikun]

It took a long time, but I finally understand this whole timeline business for Fate and Type Moon. Which world/universe is your favorite?

[@meinsternes4148]

I would say fate prototype, Kara no kyokai and case files timeline. But one question though, which fate timeline is rge actually proper human history timeline?

[@garden_of_avalon]

I enjoy strange fake i just hope it continues

[@hydrasfang]

I'm not entirely sure but I'd have to go with the world that is Fate Hollow Ataraxia.

[@NekoKat.]

For me it's a tie between Apocrypha and Grand Order, mostly because of the story arc they each fallow. Keep the great content coming

[@whitefox3189]

Red Line. All historical characters are depicted respectfully... so far. Also the way causality is changed, Akagi was able to truly go back in time, where the past affects the present. The way time and even the world works is one of the things that annoys me the most. You have True Daemons, Boddhisatvas and even Lovecraftian outer gods who are independant from humanity. There are actual aliens confirmed to exist within the universe, the moon itself used to have life there and yet the Universe itself favours humanity.

[@旭球]

"Me choosing to eat mapo tofu or curry bread isn't likely to cause another world war." I'm more interested in the timeline where it is.

[@ashchisalleh1454]

Magical girl illya , just humble kirei open shop close to magical realm

[@xuanathan]

The chef is an absolutely amazing mapo tofu chef who doesn't really use the internet, and believes the whole world is forgetting Mapo tofu, which is his life's craft. He's planning on committing suicide, but Otaku Dai kun, a fate fan, loved this mapo tofu so much it reinvigorated the chef. Later on the chef would save a young boy from drowning in a pond, who would later grow up to be a hitman responsible for the death of multiple major world leaders which were blamed on China leading to world war and nuclear annihilation.

[@alicethedragonprincess447]

I mean one diver taking the wrong route lead to world war 1 ...

[@ride-playerbb2818]

Hey, we never know what either Kirei or Ciel can be capable of

[@Lobomaru02]

New fan: So which ones are canon? Experienced fan: Yes.

[@someoneelse4939]

14:56 "I personally find it easiest to imagine it as a forest..." LostBelt 7's name:"Golden Sea of Trees" Hmmmm...

[@zen1210]

I think Shirou adoption by Kiritsugu Emiya is a Quantum Time Lock

[@sebay4654]

Especially considering oath under snow

[@yep1486]

still gonna joke about Soma from Food ward being Shirou if the fire never happed

[@benjamindonahue9434]

Surprisingly I mostly understood all of this just by playing FGO and Extra. The curve ball for me was actually that Marisbury won the ONLY holy grail war in this timeline. Assumed it was an alternate of the 4th or 5th since most flash back shots still look like relatively present day Fuyuki.

[@darkshado124]

One little theory I've came up with about Reality Marbles has to do with the Concept of an Individual's Origin. In the Garden of Sinners, it is stated that an Origin is a sealed, unrealised state most of the time. When a person awakens their Origin, they become it conceptually. They literally became a physical manifistation of their Origin, unable to change or deviate from it in anyway shape or form, however. It is possible to control it somewhat, but its extremely difficult. For example, Lio Shirazumi awakened his Origin of "Conssumption," and was granted the ability to eat anything and never get full. Awakening an Origin can be done through extreme traumatic situations, artificually through Magecraft, or accidentally. This is where Reality Marbles Comes in. As a person's Origin can awaken in the ways above, Shirou Emiya quite possibily woke up his Origin of "Sword," during the Fuyuki Fire. This had also heavily influenced his life from then on. This would make Shirou extremely mentally fucked up beyond saving. Now, as a Reality Marble is the closet thing to True Magic, what people don't consider is the Origin. It is also Akashic - "The Root" - in origin, as well. All Origin's come from Akasha, get reforged by Akasha, influenced by it, and leave it freely. Thus, an Origin can be said to be a form of True Magic in of itself. A Reality Marble is the manifestation of a person's "Inner World." It's an Universe created by the soul of the individual. It would make sense for a person's Origin to either influence the creation of a Reality Marble, or directly cause it. This also explains why Reality Marbles are so difficult to make, as it would require to unlock your Origin. When you think about it? Reality Marbles and Origin's are interwined. One cannot exist without the other. A person's Origin could also be determined if you observe an individual's Reality Marble, and visa versa. I bet Merlin's Origin from The Seven Deadly Sins would be "Infinity." That skill of her's is broken beyond belief!

[@alextimmins8426]

They should make a Canon fate character who is just a lecturer in the Mage College. And it should be you

[@shogunyamaguchi9694]

Isnt waver a lecturer ?

[@Tfbrave]

So basically adult Waver?

[@alextimmins8426]

@@shogunyamaguchi9694 yes

[@alextimmins8426]

@@Tfbrave yes

[@KigaiOkasu]

"Whether I choose to eat mapo tofu or eat some delicious curry bread for lunch won't, say, lead to another world war." And all of the Ciel fans took that personally. EDIT: And with that quantum time lock placed on that decision, catastrophe was averted, and I look like a fool for putting that comment up before the video was finished.

[@runelt99]

What are your thoughts on a recent post on r/grandorder? It deals with another of nasu's work called Tsuki no Sango and how it answers what lostbelt trees are (and what the alien god actually is, maybe) Spoiler: . . It points out how in the work there are 2 humanities, one that stayed behind on earth and other that moved to the moon and lost the passion for not stagnating. The important part is that they develop perpetual motion machines called Spiriton Accelerators - infinite energy.... And in the manga version they look exactly like fantasy trees that alien god brings. For more info reddit post is called "I think I figured out what the Lostbelt Trees are..."

[@otakudaikun]

I need to look into that. Sounds fascinating.

[@ibukunanjorin9054]

I think the alien god uses those trees as an immense power source to maintain the lostbelts and if they stick around long enough,would sprout into a true parallel timeline on their own. At the cost of their original tree.

[@daltonbalusek]

Another great lesson, helps me develop my own timeline for a Fate story I am currently writing.

[@ibukunanjorin9054]

Nice, I've always wanted to write my own Fate story, not sure if/when I'll do it.

[@EmmaSmoke]

Oh, I can’t wait for the next lesson. I really have no idea what the Reverse Side of the World is. I know a handful of random facts about it, but I don’t know how those facts correlate to each other or any more than those base facts.

[@rogueascendant6611]

The Reverse Side is likely an inverted mirror of the Earth. Instead of humans, its chock full of Phantasmal Beasts/Races and deities. It's also where the law of physics doesn't apply and such there's always anomalies spawning around like gravity turned off or time freezes, gone slow or faster than usual.

[@carljanale4566]

I've been a fan of your Fate contents especially the Lessons in Magecraft, since lesson 1. can't wait for the next.

[@AstronScion]

Thank you for making this video

[@stevepitt-ash4628]

Another great lesson thank u professor dai

[@kevinchong5424]

Yay, another lesson from DaiKun-sensei

[@FoolsGil]

I'm a sucker for multiverses. This is great!

[@timothyxv171mmmpertinentgamer]

Mage craft lesson today. Yes I ask the profound question always. what is time!!? I know about that great big tree of time. I'm a competitor of the holy grail war and I'm thankful to be apart of the different altamente worlds. I enjoyed the moment of quantum time look. I'm all about time and adjacent worlds. I know what I'm doing and it's awesome coming in contact with parallel worlds.!!!

[@ridewild1956]

Considering how stagnant the timeline in lost encore is I'm surprised it wasn't pruned as a lost belt, future event maybe

[@KingDinodragon]

Haven't got to play any type moon games beside fgo so thank you for introducing the other's I need to look into. Also think it would be cool if Archimedes would come to fgo but as a moon cancer because there aren't enough of them

[@miroslavblek]

Hmm... I wonder if somebody ever mentioned this or thought about this, but... Mage: The Ascension and Type-Moon lore and magic are very similar in many aspects.

[@Aesc_the_voyager]

I don’t know how I got here but happy and my brain is overloaded

[@otakudaikun]

Let me guess, it was from a playlist?

[@Hakelous]

the ubw route has 3 endings the rin alone, rin and saber and not dating rin ending scene in case files

[@Pslyse]

I'm surprised you didn't address Fate/Kaleid since it's one of the biggest examples of multiversal travel in Fate.

[@Xsilent79]

He said shirou was turned into a heroic spirit that's not actually the case heroic spirit emiya isn't a true heroic spirit but a counter guardian from the counter force of alaya

[@zen1210]

What if the parrael universe like Extra are timelines separated from Age of God's. Like Miyuverse, event are almost similar like Shirou adoption, Artoria/Arthur lifting caliburn

[@ThatFateGuy69]

Let's not forget the miyuverse route where shirou win the holy grail war in won night like a Chad.

[@gumigun1155]

Otakudaikun how many days to the next live stream and great video

[@otakudaikun]

Sunday.

[@jamesgood5265]

did Emiya Archer exist in the timeline where he became Emiya Archer, or did Rin summon a different servant in that universe by actually having a catalyst???

[@otakudaikun]

I'm assuming she summoned someone else in that timeline.

[@3dark7]

Time explanation! Timelords stuff!!!!

[@sabithasajan5564]

Do one on Gods or as they're known in nasuverse...Divine spirits.

[@otakudaikun]

I already have, actually. Check my Lessons playlist.

[@rogueascendant6611]

Divine Spirits is technically a term for deities that have their Saint Graph fallen so low. The term God are genuine like Zeus from LB5.

[@theswappyguy2809]

The Universe 🤝 Getter Emperor Progress babyyyyyyyyyy

[@johnmanapol9734]

In a nutshell the fate series is comparable to the multiverse

[@alexanderamaro1257]

It almost feels like an incursion

[@ashchisalleh1454]

Funny.. Because if you take all this result.. This is result what kirei want archived before shirou blast it away in heaven feel.

[@jorgeantonioparadasantamar7691]

But if a heroic spirit from a timeline can be summoned in a other timeline. LOSTBELT 6 SPOILERS. I dont understand why in LB 6, the counter force didn't summon a user of excalibur to defeat Sefar.

[@otakudaikun]

Don't you mean Lostbelt 5? Or is Sefar important to Avalon as well?

[@jorgeantonioparadasantamar7691]

@@otakudaikun i mean LB 6, i dont know much about it but i know that sefar is important as well

[@ashisgod]

I have now found out that Geronimo is a God tier ask my level 12 Geronimo

[@noahweathers4408]

The introduction of a multiverse is practically a godsend to fanfic writers everywhere with the idea that, if there are uncountable different realities in as many universes, then basically ANYTHING is possible. It’s a playground without limit where potential writers can explore countless possibilities to their hearts content. Want to imagine a timeline where Fujimaru DID save the world alongside Team A? Now you can. Want to contemplate a reality where several characters from Type-Moon met and fought with figures from Hunter x Hunter? Now you can. Want to imagine an alternate Zero where the Masters summoned a second Servant and radically altered the war? You CAN!!! The potential is virtually limitless. EDIT: As an example, I just found a fanfic where Ritsuka was summoned to the 5th Fuyuki Holy Grail War. In addition to a number of other changes, Medea was able to summon not just Kojirō but SALTER as well. The author wrote an omake where Fujimaru easily turned things around by accidentally summoning Morgan, leaving her and Medea to play a magical tug of war with Salter’s command seals (Morgan can easily grab them thanks to her experience with the existence tax from her original Lostbelt, but Medea keeps snatching them back with Rule Breaker), then Fujimaru offers a trump card in the form of hamburger-kun, appealing to Salter’s adoration for junk food. It’s as HILARIOUS as it sounds.

[@Icebabyice-zi5cc]

its steins gate all over again

[@L3onking]

Chronosophy is the one concept science is getting close to figuring out so is it truly magecraft? *Cue Stein's gate*

[@nacht9586]

I can't believe Fate has such an extensive and well-defined systems and verses. So, I guess there's a multiverse going on here huh?

[@pathfindersavant3988]

Hey careful now, that's hell you're walking into.

[@nacht9586]

@@pathfindersavant3988 wdym

[@pathfindersavant3988]

@@nacht9586 Its kinda a joke. The line itself is a quote from Unlimited Blade Works, but Nasuverse fans like to jokingly tell it to new people coming into the franchise to warn them that this franchise is really convoluted and complicated at times. If you get sucked in and go down the rabbit hole, you may not come out. Then BAM! Suddenly you're trapped grinding and whaling on the FGO gacha like the rest of us.

[@nacht9586]

@@pathfindersavant3988 oh yeah. I forgot there's a gacha game. Thanks for reminding me. I'll download it right away.

[@pathfindersavant3988]

@@nacht9586 I will warn you, the gacha will be confusing if you don't have more knowledge and background with the series. Also, at this point you will have missed out on most of special events and welfare stuff in the game, so starting in this game at this point may not be worth it for you.

[@carlosgarza400]

One day Saraphem

[@ThatFateGuy69]

Chad Arthur Pendragon

[@theswappyguy2809]

Even fanfics can be Canon! Also! how did i get here

[@otakudaikun]

Was it someone's playlist perhaps?

[@theswappyguy2809]

@@otakudaikun yeah, but I just clicked on a playlist and ended up here Oh well, time to pay up

[@theswappyguy2809]

No I have reason to be here!

[@izzymosley1970]

I wonder how the counterforce and the fate universe as a whole would handle a AI singularity by that I mean what would happen if someone made an AI that was smarter than humans and then that AI was made to upgrade itself to be smarter than it was before and because it kept getting smarter it was able to upgrade itself faster and faster until it reaches a certain point where it practically has infinite intelligence I wonder how the Earth would respond to that because a super intelligent AI isn't something that you can just punch really hard and make it go away.

[@otakudaikun]

It would be similar to the extra event in FGO I feel.

[@KigaiOkasu]

The universe might just prune that timeline as a lostbelt. As mentioned before, each lostbelt is a timeline where human progression comes to a dead end whether it be extinction or stagnation. If that universe turns into the Terminator movies, then it would be pruned due to humanity dying out. On the other hand, if it turns into something more akin to Wall-E where humans don't have to leave their chairs for anything, then humanity has nothing left to strive for or no reason to strive for anything, so progress stagnates.

[@aviniciussouza100]

Erased from existence

[@ivanbluecool]

Honestly I never saw the problem with timelines myself as I love to organize things in numbers when reading series that have background information I like a straight forward timeline more like knk where we can see one long journey the Characters have as that is the weakness of routes as all that development is erased and the only upside to that is if you hated the main girl the mc got with or in this case the fmc to mc. Seeing shiki as a whole was fantastic. Tsukuhime to the remake I just say it's basically FF 7 remake where it's not a remake it's a different story all together with similar Characters but even that I a stretch to say as they are completely different in a different world with phones. Love how kalied is the only story to directly show a pruned timeline where the Characters fail to an alternative timeline after the fact when illya travels back in time to see Erika but nobody cares about it as Chloe scares them off or anime only people who think they understand the story(they don't) Fsn is basically how many times Shirou messes up with how many bad ends he has that are more logical to where he would honestly end up without plot armor. Meanwhile Rin and archer emiya are probably the only Characters who actually can move past fsn and continue to grow as people in ha to parts of El mellioi strange fake and fgo where we hear all the accomplishments these two have with stopping the grail war. Blasting hercules. Dismantling the grail. Etc. Apoc while the anime was terrible it doesn't get enough appreciation for how different the cast of fsn is when they never get involved in the war where Shirou is a lawyer. Rin has a lot more confidence. Sakura is an edefelt Instead(as tokioimi always gives her away as nobody aside her actual sister wants her) and illya would not be born as Kerry wouldn't be hired by the einzberg family as another justeave would be made Instead as amakusa was summoned Instead of angra. So may small details. Fgo is a mess of conflicting stories and timelines as the writers almost never keep track of it having too many cooks. At most I treat it as a floating timeline as the events that "could" happen to the mc but don't really aside the main story bits from par 1 lostbelt and the exception of anything bb is in as she exists and funny enough ishtar and Ereshkigal too as ereshkigal remembers the most of her journey aside mashu who is the fmc if everything so ereshkigal would probably be the better made one for the timeline Seeing her past present and future. Everything else is basically erased somewhat each time as they don't really get mentioned or referenced much as they didn't matter to the major story plot

[@tonyinfinite5174]

I think Fate as a whole tries too hard with the multiverse concept just make prequels or sequels too existing stories so character progression matters for instance I honestly want a Fate Prototype anime but Artoria takes precedence despite not making an appearance for the past 15 years and boy the Extraverse and Apocrypha was ruined due too terrible anime direction and plot, with Fate/zero's success they should have had Nasu draft the third and second grail wars since Narratively the fifth war was the least interesting in terms of battle royale and boy FGO could've worked if we got a MC and not a self insert

[@ShiraFuyu2022]

So to put it short, Type Moon does operate on a Multiverse right ?

[@inorishiki7803]

Yes

[@otakudaikun]

Indeed. This is just how that multiverse operates. It has rules lol

[@sabithasajan5564]

Is nasuverse pantheistic?? Definitely is right?

[@otakudaikun]

Yeah, basically.

[@jamesknott5255]

Pretty “ballsey” taking on the monumental task of explaining time and alternate worlds within the Nasu-verse ! 😂 but seriously, great job 👏🏻 I would just like to point out though that the holy grail was ALWAYS corrupted by Angra Mainyu, ever since the third holy grail war. It’s Shirou’s actions / decisions themselves that caused the shatter point delving into the three different timelines. It wasn’t ONLY in the Heavens Feel route. Again, just to clarify to any “newbies” who may read this.

[@otakudaikun]

Its not corrupt in Apocrypha or FGO.

[@jamesknott5255]

@@otakudaikun Very true. Just the Stay Night route.

[@akilouissifou9957]

Gg

[@axelaliens153]

Time hu thanks for the tip.

[@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723]

1st rule of magic, DO NOT MESS WITH THE HIGHER PLANES OR OTHER REALMS! One thing is to make magic pizza over, the other is accidentally opening a Hellgate and starting Wolfstein world

[@idreadFell365]

The Apocrypha time line is a parallel universe right? 💥

[@Succubus_L0li]

All of them are, even prillya universe.

[@otakudaikun]

Yes.

[@BrunofanofK]

6:50 - isn't this principle aplied to all inteligent species of the universe thought? F/EXTRA CCC, Gilgamesh end bringing Rakunou to a "consumption based" alien civilization and the Olimpian Machine Gods and Sefar show the universe favours "diversity" of lifeforms. Humans are more like bacteries in the bioesphere of the Universe.

[@otakudaikun]

I mean... everything so far has revolved around proper Human history.

[@marc-olivierikambi4352]

The way I barely understand ANYTHING 💀💀

[@clothar23]

What's hard to understand ? It all boils down to mess with time enough bad stuff can happen. And that past , present , and future aren't exactly as solid concepts as we'd like to think them to be.

[@marc-olivierikambi4352]

@@clothar23 chill man just a lil joke to say that its a lil bit confusing

[@aminebachir3394]

This is one of the most inconsistent topics about the Nasuverse multiverse system 😅I always find contradictions, and I am starting to think that it's just whatever the writer wants it to be

[@otakudaikun]

Do you have an example?

[@aminebachir3394]

@@otakudaikun the Definition in Fate Extella contradicts Grand Order and Lord El Melloi files😅

[@aminebachir3394]

@@otakudaikun there's Adjacent, Parallel worlds and different timelines There's also the fact that if Zelretch observes a time-line or world, it becomes the default one

[@otakudaikun]

@@aminebachir3394 The real question is whether he could validate a lostbelt by observing it.