Otherwise the tires are in the ''melt zone''. Cathay Boeing 747 emergency landing at JFK. REAL ATC

On May 3, 2024.
A Cathay Pacific Boeing 747-8 registration B-LJF, performing flight CPA3298 from Anchorage International Airport (PANC) to New York John F. Kennedy International Airport (KJFK) was descending towards Kennedy Airport when the pilots reported leading edge flaps issue and requested delay vectors.
Main playlists:
EMERGENCY - • EMERGENCY
REAL ATC - • REAL ATC
CRASHES - • Crashes
If you enjoyed please support channel by subscribing and hitting the notification bell to get notified on new uploads.
Source of communications: www.liveatc.net (usage permission)
#REALATC #AIRTRAFFICCONTROLL #AVIATION

[@CraftAero]

ATC sounds like a used car salesman trying unload 22L on a desperate customer.

[@Zamiroh]

I don't think so. It was likely an atc supv asking the controller to confirm there is no chance the aircraft can take 22L.

[@TomNimitz]

Pushing the the shortest runway at Kennedy too (22L/4R at 8400'). "This runways purrs like a kitten. Only used by a little old lady on Sundays. Just what you need. And I'll throw in an EMAS pad at the end for no extra charge!"

[@craig7350]

"What do we have to do to get you into that 22L today?"

[@CraftAero]

@@craig7350 "I got a guy 100 naughts out comin' in for 22L but I could let you have it right now."

[@craig7350]

@@CraftAero ".. let me check with the manager if that deal is still good, we don't do this for everyone"

[@EdOeuna]

It will be interesting to see what effect this did have on airport movements. Hopefully things returned to normal quickly afterwards. Well done to ATC for not getting hung up on allowing 04L for this emergency aircraft.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

Was all well done by both ATC and the crew. Only thing I was surprised about was the 38000 lbs of fuel on board. I used to plan on 25000.

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 Maybe cheaper where they came from? Or bad weather on the route so unsure of how much that was to be used?

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

@@Xanthopteryx could be. But the 747 burns a lot of extra fuel, when carrying extra fuel. But I’m not saying they are wrong, I’m sure they have valid reasons. All I’m saying is that I was surprised to hear that.

[@carolynmacdonald8047]

I really like how he tried to work with the pilot- but left it up to him.

[@ElectricPics]

That's the opposite of what the controller was doing. He was trying to make life easier for himself and the airport while adding unnecessary workload to pilots who already had enough to do with an abnormal landing config.

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@ElectricPics This was no hurry or no big deal for the pilots. They had plenty of time so of course it was a good thing of the controller giving them other options in case they missed that. Total flight safety you know. Disturb as little as possible in the air.

[@TheGospelQuartetParadise]

Being on the inbound approach they didn't have to worry about dumping fuel. Glad it worked out safely.

[@iflyg4]

Well done. Professionally handled.

[@andrewdstokes]

Super professional all round. Kudos to all.

[@ghostrider-be9ek]

and after going through this - Air Canada pilots recently in toronto decide to PARK on a runway, instead of vacating as per standard safety practices - what is wrong with that company? lol

[@mattthompson9826]

Hey tower 4L. I repeat 4 left is the only option. Yes tower, I realize you would like to go through your list of options again but we need 4L yes tower, 4L only option. Yes tower our tires will melt if we try to stop on 22L. We need 4L. Yes tower, 4Left is our only option!

[@savagecub]

People are amazed to learn the 737-900 has probably the fastest approach speed of any Boeing airliner. You don't even want to think about trying to deal with a situation where you can't get flaps deployed on it.

[@rtbrtb_dutchy4183]

We do a no flap landing on every sim ride. It’s not something that’s disastrous

[@franklinshaffer2382]

Its was a 747-800. Cargo plane

[@Angel33Demon666]

@@franklinshaffer2382No, it was a 747-8F. 747-800 isn’t an actual designation for any aircraft

[@savagecub]

@@franklinshaffer2382 I know that and I am saying the 737-900 has an even faster ref speed than the 747.

[@savagecub]

@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 Provided you’ve got a long enough runway. When you’re flying to far away islands that might not be the case.

[@TomNimitz]

Shouldn't all the references to 22L by the controller have been the longer 22R? Edit: As mentioned below and confirmed on the airnav site: Runway 22R has a displaced threshold of 3424 ft, leaving a 7794 ft LDA. However, runway 4L has a much shorter displaced threshold of 460 ft, leaving a 11010 ft LDA. Runways 4R/22L have a 8400 ft LDA. This explains why the pilots' request for 4L and refusal of 22L. The longer 13R was declined at 1:57 due to approach restrictions. I expect 31L was not considered due to tail winds (130 at 13 gusts 19).

[@thomasdalton1508]

I was wondering that. Does 22R not have an ILS?

[@thomasdalton1508]

It looks like it does have an ILS. Maybe it was broken?

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

22R has a massive inset threshold, for landing distance it’s the shortest runway

[@thomasdalton1508]

@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 Ah, of course! Thank you. Do you happen to know why that area isn't available for landing on?

[@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549]

@@thomasdalton1508 obstacles in the undershoot probably

[@tkozikow]

Relevant to nothing this pattern makes repeat passes over my house. Pretty cool to see the variety of aircraft flying so close on final to JFK.

[@_Breakdown]

Anyone know what the typical speed for this size plane to slow to before landing? Is there a general range of speed before they vector into the runway?

[@sdluke]

For a 747 I'd say around 140-160kts on final

[@_Breakdown]

@@sdluke thanks.😎👍🏼 Im guessing you’re a pilot?👨🏼‍✈️✈️ or ATC? 🛫 or aficionado/student? 🧑🏻🛩️

[@sdluke]

@@_Breakdown pilot

[@davidbelcastro4438]

The vref range is 127 (light) to 165 (max 346000t/760000lbs). He was max weight, with the specific flap problem requiring vref 30 +25.

[@_Breakdown]

@@davidbelcastro4438 thanks. 😎👍🏼 What is vref range?

[@PavlosPapageorgiou]

What was the issue with the long eastbound runway?

[@neiledwards8454]

13R has a curved non precision approach, their speed will be high due to the flap issue, so making the turn might be difficult. There is a big displaced threshold on 22R leaving under 2400m landing distance. 04L has a smaller displace threshold leaving 3350m landing distance.

[@0RespectMyAuthority0]

​@@neiledwards8454I believe most flap issues require configuring the aircraft in a straight line too

[@pgbrandon]

Is it just me or are there a lot of flap issues lately?

[@malahammer]

Just you, there are 22.2m flights a year. You need some stats. There are probably just as many engine flame outs or instrument failures.

[@alexdrockhound9497]

gotta watch out for reporting bias. There may just be more people recording ATC traffic now, and this channel may be choosing to post more videos of flap failures lately.

[@marcmcreynolds2827]

In the 1980's I used to read the Service Difficulty Reports compiled and disseminated weekly(?) by the FAA. Even with only a fraction of the flights we have now, there was plenty of stuff going on all the time. Seemed like "cabin wouldn't pressurize/replaced outflow valve" was always popping up. But who wants to see a video about things like that? Not me.

[@aleksandartasic7652]

22L for the 747-400@ 302 tons with FLAPS DRIVE EICAS is not an option period, end of conversation. Nobody in the right mind would accept that.

[@Autumnnss]

3 people on board?

[@mad1337nes]

cargo plane

[@carolynmacdonald8047]

Question- at that speed, would you be in a brace position?

[@djurispijker3519]

Probably not. However it is Captain/Lead Flight attendants (Purser) discretion.

[@askarmuk]

This was a cargo flight

[@RobFeldkamp]

No, it's fast, not THAT fast.

[@liam3284]

340kph, not exactly slow

[@ElectricPics]

The finals controller was adding to the workload of the flight crew by making recalculate their landing distance for 22L. He should have just accepted their decision and got on with clearing traffic.

[@AS-id7jo]

agree and doing a flapless high speed landing on a freighter on Canarsie approach is not the best option he has to bank right and at that speed with no flaps he could miss the runaway. That approach is not easy let alone in a non standard landing configuration

[@Xanthopteryx]

This was not a big deal for the pilots. A flap issue like this is not a heavy workload and they had Plenty of time sorting things out. Good that ATC tried to make as little deviations as possible in the air, because shuffle things around is Always a risk.

[@obamabigears734]

@@AS-id7joWasn’t a flapless approach but yes, a Flaps Drive message and Carnasie Arrival doesn’t really match.

[@AS-id7jo]

@@obamabigears734 agree meant flaps not fully configured to land it’s a 747 freighter probably fully loaded . If he has to turn on that approach has to bank hard and he has reduced lift without the proper flaps setup . But that approach is a bit tricky/delicate heard it from many pilots flying a heavy or super aircraft ( a buddy was doing it on Emirates A380) think he told me that approach as per company policy is a cpt landing only

[@obamabigears734]

@@AS-id7joIt’s not too bad since you can now do it in LNAV/VNAV but it’s definitely requiring some more than just basic flying skills, especially since you are landing close to 700,000 lbs and you pretty much gets wing level at around 300 feet, at least for 13 L, but yes, flap issue that approach goes out the window.

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

ATC asks him 4 times to alter THE PILOTS request for a specific runway. The first 3 were funny…. Not.

[@justinbecker4772]

I mean, the ATC is likely more familiar with the airport layout and ILS capabilities, right? I feel like it's reasonable to suggest options

[@RobFeldkamp]

@@justinbecker4772 agreed. Asking is not a problem. He did not force anything.

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

@@justinbecker4772 I understand that. It’s the multiple attempts. Then added work load. At least they were cargo and not passengers. The pilots knew what they needed. Instead they got “those shoes really look good on you X4”

[@Xanthopteryx]

@@thereissomecoolstuff This was not a really high work load thing at all. Just a flap issue and they had PLENTY of time to sort things out. The biggest problem is the delay of all the parcels that they now face because of a broken plane on the wrong place on the earth.

[@thereissomecoolstuff]

@@Xanthopteryx I disagree. They were working checklist and calculating speeds etc. irregardless we see more ATC turning into radio warriors everyday thanks to this channel. He asked more than twice. You are right about delayed goods. My Amazon plastic toothpicks were delayed. I like them because you can wash them and reuse them.