Our experience with Air Source Heat Pumps

[@gino2465]

Huge thumbs up a very sensible person. Something our other KZbin videos keep forgetting to mention, you have mentioned the key facts payback. Yes everyone is so excited with solar, battery's and heat pumps and fail to accept untill your system pays you back the initial investment then and only then is it free or benefitting from that savings. Great video

[@kennethatkins9250]

Insulation insulation insulation and air tightness etc Its the only way to reduce emissions overall. Then a heating/energy system to make the best use of the insulated area. Can't understand how the country is not rolling out insulation to most homes it has to be the way to reduce costs . Thanks for the overview.

[@kennethatkins9250]

@Lee Bishop There are so many systems that insulate internal face of walls and cold bridging areas. Of course this is best done when doing a refurbishment , or major redecorate . At least you end up with a "like new" internal and so warm. There is of course loads of additional insulation options if you have the money and the interest to action them. Good luck . Ken

[@josephmcmahon7470]

The HeatGeek group have proved even in a poorly performing building (no roof insulation, shot double glazing) you can achieve consistent COPs over 3. I understans this is just a KZbin comment section but "Insulation insulation insulation and air tightness" ignores risk to overheating and ignores increased ventillation requirement. The only way to achieve optimal comfort is to: design the system properly.

[@wilsonflood4393]

You practically live in a mansion. Space issues for smaller homes. How well would they work in Braemar at -15 C. What is this costing? Cavity wall insulation is dodgy in wet areas. Not all wine and roses.

[@MrMax4music]

@Lee Bishop Yo have options Move house to a better insulated one, stay and do something about it, or stay and do nothing about it. One thing I can guarantee though is, heating bills will only ever get higher and the more years you live with the house insulated, the better return on your investment and the more you save. But you cant have it both ways, expecting someone else to pay to insulate your house to reduce your bills, because you cant or wont pay for yourself. I insulated my solid brick house from the 1870's. Saved all the money I could, did all the work myself, took 18 months, one room at a time. Lovely and warm now.

[@MrMax4music]

@Lee Bishop It sounds idyllic, but all you have done is avoid the problem of a cold house by pumping it with vast amounts of energy. Thats fine if you have have an endless free supply of wood, and will remain fit and able to collect, chop, stack etc. which becomes more and more a problem as you get old. It also still means your house will be much warmer in some places than others. I love wood burners. I grew up in the countryside where it was our main heating. I have one now too, but having fully insulated my house and realised how much nicer it is than any house Ive had in the past. I would always put all my efforts into insulating first. Something to note. Theres an elderly couple that live up the road in a little cottage. been there for around 50 years. All their heating and cooking is with wood. Lovely little place, but they arn't going to be able to trudge over the fields collecting wood forever. At some point, good insulation and a small electric heater will be necessary to remain in that house. Ask yourself, whats your plan if, you are unable to collect this wood?

[@bikerchrisukk]

Thank you for taking the time to create this video, it's going to be very helpful for many home owners. That is strange about the further away secondary return, getting hotter more quickly than the direct feed just next to the HW storage? It does make sense I suppose, as the pipes hold colder water for longer.

[@eddiestafford3313]

Thank you for your review of your Air Source Heat Pump system. Very informative and honest review of the system you have. Very well presented and lots of valid general points about making the house comfortable and efficient. e.g. zoning. Forward thinking in the planning of future developments regarding ducts for solar cabling. Wise advice on choosing a contractor!!

[@stuartwright9148]

Really good video, honest real world view without an axe to grind.

[@modernthatchliving1025]

Thanks 👍

[@davidscott3292]

A well balanced presentation. Apart from everything else, heat pump systems are only really suitable where you need the heating on all day. If you only need heat a few hours a day, or sometimes not at all, almost anything else is better.

[@ecoworrier]

Why so?

[@davidscott3292]

@@ecoworrier Slow to heat up and cool down.

[@ecoworrier]

@@davidscott3292 Like a fridge needs time to cool down?

[@MrMax4music]

Hi David, I think you somewhat miss the point. Wouldn't you rather have your house warm all the time? We do after all spend most of our time there, with perhaps a few hours in the day when out at work, but most families nowadays have someone in the house a lot of the time with working from, kids on half term etc Why let it cool right down and then try and heat it back up again? The ideal is to warm your house up and keep it warm, and minimise the losses through good insulation. Heat Pumps are ideal for this constant level of heat.

[@stigkrakpants3052]

i think you do not understand AIR heat pumps, in the situation YOU mention of a system that is always on then ASHPs are fine, they give out very little, ergo you keep them on 24 hrs, what a sensible person would do is turn off the boost of electricity in the emersion tank

[@mfr58]

Thanks for a very clear and balanced explanation. What size electrical power circuit do you have for each pump?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

we have 25A breakers on each pump.

[@towerdave4836]

Do yo have a figure for the COP over a year? Also does the heat pump system control on the flow temperature to the house or the return water to the heat pumps? Well presented video. Hot water circulation: since the far outlets are on a common source with those in your kitchen then the time to get hot water can only be influenced by the length of “dead leg” to each outlet. It’s common to take circulation right up to outlets but those outlets in the Kitchen probably don’t have any circulation to them resulting in a longer time to draw off cold water in their dead legs.

[@michaeld5888]

In the UK the coal fired stations kept them running this Monday. These things may pay back initial investment but few people have any initial investment whatever to hand. Wood stoves are massively polluting and when there is an inversion layer in my village the air stinks of wood smoke. I hope this local wood is dried to less than 20% moisture content as required by law and does this require energy? It is difficult not to imagine the eco world is primarily affluent people with plenty of capital advising each other on the long term plans for heating the mansion. Between the fossil fuel world and the self sustaining world there is a very wide and long term cold chasm to bridge in the technology for most of us.

[@stigkrakpants3052]

well said, the mucky cultural self loathing Brexit hating woke middle class Greta brigade are deluded. We need tidal nuclear ground source and hydrogen. The gov know this but prefer to see Brits freeze and be replaced by third world immigrants

[@flatcap6263]

Great vid, you kitchen hot water problem will be because they have taken the tap supply from the return pipe of your loop and the hot water is travelling the full length of the loop before getting to your tap, simply swap the feed over to the other pipe line to solve your problem.

[@insAneTunA]

I live in an old house, and I started insulating it, and my only regret is that I didn't do it years sooner. Last month I finished insulating my kitchen ceiling with foam boards, downstairs it was the only area that was not insulated yet.And I also filled up all the draft holes above the window with expanding foam, and now it doesn't just feel much more comfortable at the entire lower floor because the heat difference between the floor level and the ceiling is much less and the cold draft is gone, but I also saved a lot on my energy costs. I live in a rather small house, so I only needed 10 PIR boards and a few Styrofoam boards to get that wooden kitchen ceiling insulated. But thanks to the extremely warm October month (2022) and the insulation, and sadly because the extremely high energy prices, that month I managed to save 75% on my energy costs, so I earned back my investment in a single month. And so far this month November, at one third of the month, I am at 60% energy saving. I have to say that I also pay attention to my energy consumption by taking much shorter showers, I also use a blanket in the evening, and in the kitchen I only use cold water, I watched videos about how to tune, or properly set, a high efficiency heating system and the radiators, of which I wasn't aware until I saw the videos. And I use the heating system much less at much lower temperatures. And now I am used to have much lower temperatures inside the house, and I don't feel cold at all. Basically I avoid using gas as much as possible. Especially when you live in an old house it makes perfect sense to insulate the lower floor ceilings, because it feels much much more comfortable. It warms up much faster when you use the heating system, and it stays much longer warm. And over time you will earn the investment back. But the comfort that you get makes it all worth doing it. It truly is. If I light up 6 tealights it warms up 1 degrees C. Before the insulation was installed it would not have made any temperature difference at all.

[@kevatnorthfield]

With so much open land. Why on earth didn't you go for ground source heat pumps. Personally I think you weren't advised or informed very well.

[@insAneTunA]

@@kevatnorthfield What open land? The picture from my logo is not where I live. It was a picture that I took with a DIY camera setup and a remote controlled airplane long before gopro camera's and drones existed. An airplane that I named insanetuna, because it was very streamlined and fast. I live in an urban area, with very little space. And I do not own the property. It just happens to be that the house where I live survived the war. A few other similar houses also survived, but all the other houses in my street and the surrounding area are new and build well after the war. Ths month, so far, I used 60% less energy compared to previous years. And the previous month, October, I saved 75% energy. It has to be said that where I live it was the warmest October month ever recorded. And this month we also had some record breaking warm days. So that helps as well. But the insulation was absolutely well worth the money and the effort. I already earned it back. In a single month. And it is way more comfortable inside.

[@insAneTunA]

@@kevatnorthfield And I would love to have a heat pump, and/or solar panels, but again, it is not my property, and my request for these things were denied.

[@bootburner4544]

@@insAneTunA It seems pretty obvious to me that Kevin meant to post his comment to the author of the video, not to you. 😀

[@stigkrakpants3052]

@@bootburner4544 YEAH THAT IS THE OBVIOUS CONLUSION I INSTANTLY CAME TO AS WELL

[@imnothere220]

Its a lovely presentation! You have excellent communication skills. It does show, however, how diametrically different views are on these things. Youll find videos even suggested after this one that absolutely advise against zoning!

[@rcosnett]

Very well explained, looks like you choose the right installer, were you lucky, or very knowledgeable. Bob

[@imnothere220]

Isn't that just it. Get the wrong installer and you don't get this!

[@mollyfilms]

? Any idea on running costs against oil? What’s your electric bill like as these costs a fair amount to run.

[@davidk3729]

There is a large house near me in northern England. Heating costs are nil. Oil fired using waste oil from the owner’s car dealership.

[@mollyfilms]

@@davidk3729 I think that was outlawed some time ago but if he’s getting away with it..

[@modernthatchliving1025]

See my answer above to Nhojnhoj67 above.

[@peterdowsett7926]

Great presentation. Very interesting. Why did you discount ground source heat pumps?

[@williamrgutrich7694]

Because he did not want to spend another $20K or $30K to save a few pennies.

[@obd6HsN]

10:45 Hello, I'm sure I'm missing something obvious but how is the DHW cylinder at 52 when the return temperature from the ASHPs is only 39?

[@richardjbingham4817]

Immersion heater

[@ChrisLee-yr7tz]

@@richardjbingham4817 You've got to be kidding? So on a daily basis you'd always need to top up the hot water using electricity?

[@richardjbingham4817]

@@ChrisLee-yr7tz Yes. I installed the electrical supplies for a system recently, the heat pump required a 40 amp supply and the immersion heater was used constantly.

[@ChrisLee-yr7tz]

@@richardjbingham4817 Insanity.

[@stigkrakpants3052]

@@ChrisLee-yr7tz not insanity, they gov know how to screw you and destroy britain, they hate you and your history and pride, meanwhile UK french owned hotels are sacking British staff and employing immigrants instead, then telling the french to send migrants here and into their warm hotels paid for by you, Britain will decay. You will freeze and be replaced.

[@KayWessel]

Did you compare thermal ground source heat pumps with your air source heat pumps at the time of selecting the system?

[@stigkrakpants3052]

clearly not as the contractors put in wrong system. Buy Kay do not confuse ground source with geothermal

[@cristianmorar5558]

I find this an honest review really, what is not very clear for me is the positioning of external units, why there ? Why not closer to the house ?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

There were a number of reasons, some may be valid, others perhaps not so much. Firstly and most importantly I did not want them next to the house for aesthetic reasons. Secondly I was worried about air flow around them and felt that a more open area might work better than close to the house, I am not sure that this is really an issue, but they do need 0.5m clearance behind them. They do generate a fair amount of water on the defrost cycle so they are always wet around the base (and consequently you get algal growth around the base) and I did not want this near the house. Basically it comes down to where you would like to put them, they can be placed more or less anywhere with enough clearance around them. I hope than helps.

[@seanogallchoir3237]

During a storm, could falling trees damage the Heat pumps, will the house insurance cover replacement?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

We manage the trees carefully every year on the property....if nothing else it helps to provide firewood for the log burner as well as avoiding the issue of unwanted tree falls!

[@stigkrakpants3052]

now that would be a wonderful outcome

[@seanogallchoir3237]

@@stigkrakpants3052 the big storm in 1987 many trees fell, a lot of damage. It is most likely similar storms will come, also lots of rain from melting ice 5 to 7 m. of a rise in sea levels.

[@nhojnhoj6767]

Hello. So what's the running cost compared to oil? How much was your installation?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

We currently are running with a total yearly house electricity cost of £4638 at a unit cost of 34p/unit. The heat source pumps are responsible for £2168 of this, much less than we were paying for oil 4 years ago.

[@nhojnhoj6767]

@@modernthatchliving1025 Did you install any additional insulation?

[@ChrisLee-yr7tz]

@@modernthatchliving1025 Hi. Would you mind elaborating on all of the figures? It's a shame you didn't include them in the video. Better still, could you make a video about the economics of it all? I realise you can't do this....but what people really need to compare is the running costs and installation costs after insulating the house else It's not a valid comparison. Presumably your running costs post insulation would have massively dropped even with oil? Does your system track the number of kWh heat output into the house? That would be interesting to know because you can then estimate how much oil you would have needed.

[@stigkrakpants3052]

@@ChrisLee-yr7tz Boyle's law, you dont get owt for nowt. All a big scam

[@johnwoods7650]

It would help to know where in the country you are. I take it you are not in Scotland and from your accent you are probably in the South. So is the system only suitable in Southern England where, these days, it is quite warm?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

The system we installed is made by Nibe, a Swedish company. I decided that if it works in Sweden it would probably work in the UK. Yes, we are in the south of the uk and having higher average air temperature certainly helps, but the biggest impact on running cost that we see is the use of hot water in the house. When we have visitors the cost can double....showers, extra washing up etc.

[@stigkrakpants3052]

@@modernthatchliving1025 oh great more money pissed away to a foreign company, no wonder Britain is dead

[@Nailnuke]

So, including insulation, under floor heating, radiators etc. What was the total cost of installation, (materials & labour) ? Thanks

[@robevans8625]

It will take 20 years in savings to payback the initial outlay.

[@ChrisLee-yr7tz]

@@robevans8625 That's wasn't the question. I'm really interested in the subject but none of these videos ever give the actual detail. So frustrating.

[@peternorman2563]

Well thank you for the information but I would suggest it is a very complicated system. The big problem that may arise is when a fault occurs in a few years time you will need a well informed engineer to sort out the problem, very expensive ! A good addition would have been 30 Navitron solar tubes to give you all the free hot water needed. Another observation is that you will need solar blinds on your south facing windows to stop you cooking during the summer months. Two Mega flow cylinders rather than the one with a zilmet pressure vessel (stainless steel ones should have been specified ). Otherwise a very nice system !

[@darude1420]

If oil costs was about £4000/yr, what's the running costs of the air source heat pumps?

[@stigkrakpants3052]

£4001

[@thamesmud]

And what would the oil have been after all the insulation installed? Combined heat and power.diesel generator would be another way to go with a property like this 20 kW CHP will give 40 kW heat and 20 kW electricity in the winter.

[@jeanjacques9980]

How many KWs of electricity does the house use each year and how many KWs are produced by pumps? My understanding of air source heat pumps it that for every 2KWs of output of the system, it requires an input of 1 KW of electricity. Most of us do not have an adjacent field for solar panels. Also the units can be noisy, imagine 150 x 2 units running in an urban area at the same time. At least “kettling” boilers are just a nuisance for the individual household rather than many neighbours. How much did the pumps cost?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

You might find my latest video on the air source heat pumps of interest, I try to explain the costs of running and compare with oil. Thank you for watching!

[@jeanjacques9980]

@@modernthatchliving1025 Thank you for reply, my understanding is that air heat pumps are not as efficient as domestic gas. Oil is another story and I assume if you have free solar electricity that’s a bonus for the air pump excluding purchase and fitting of solar panels. I’ve also heard that the air pumps have high maintenance costs if you are able to find a technician. Also means you can not move home, which may suit your circumstances.

[@modernthatchliving1025]

@@jeanjacques9980 We have the heat pumps serviced annually as we did with the oil boilers when we had them. So far the cost of servicing the heat pumps has not been that different to that for the oil boilers. They are not really very complex.....

[@jeanjacques9980]

@@modernthatchliving1025 OK seems more research is required my behalf.

[@relobmit]

Why didn't you get a ground source heat pump?

[@stigkrakpants3052]

sshhh you are talking sense. That is now banned in UK

[@eliotmansfield]

And if you insulated the house and zoned the house the same and fitted a better oil boiler how would that stacked up against ashp in terms of cost. Insulating should be the first thing people do to their properties regardless of heating type.

[@stigkrakpants3052]

you are wrong, the houses that struggle in winter are old, stone cottages will look ugly with external insulation, and internal space destroyed by internal, air pumps are noisy and ugly. Why pay for extra electricity to fuel a pump.. It is a government scam and backhander operation to scumbags

[@michaelfraser5723]

How do you live with the noise and vibrations, especially at night ?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

The ones that we have are quieter than the oil boilers that we used to have....and they are set away from the house.

[@PosiP]

the ground source heat pump looks like it was an option for you too. looks like a big yard.

[@karma3101]

I would have thought with the availability of so much land a ground source heat pump system would have been a better and a more efficient option.

[@modernthatchliving1025]

Just depends on what your preference is. The air source works for us so I do not have any regrets on the decision, but I did worry that ground source might be better when we were trying to decide.

[@stigkrakpants3052]

karma speaks the truth, avoid the government con, backhanders for mps .... hmmmmm

[@Lee-70ish]

Friend tried one . Took it out and went back to gas central heating it was not as reliable and it cost too much in electricity . He has solar panels but it was still too pricey to run. We had Mitsubishi HS at work so running costs was not thought of much, however in the winter if it snowed heavy their efficiency was very poor when buried under frozen snow.

[@williamrgutrich7694]

Your problem was you did not get the upgrade of Magic Unicorns needed to make all green appliances work. Next time, don't skimp on the Magic Unicorns.

[@DeneF]

We have just put in a 3.7 system in with solar in the roof too. Insulation is our issue though, we have found big voids in our cavity insulation. Sigh!

[@adrianm.2043]

This is very interesting. My experience with air conditioning is that the heat pumps need a lot of maintenance especially if you want or need to keep them quiet, the older they get the more this is true. I wonder if that will be the case with these heat pumps. Did you consider ground source heat pumps? that system works better in cold weather as if it is in a borehole or deep trench it is unaffected by weather, the temperature remains constant once you get to below about four feet or 1200mm.

[@martinmuldoon603]

I think when this man decided to install 2 separate systems it would have been a much better choice to install a ground source heat pump plus an air source heat pump for mild weather over 15 C otherwise air source type heat pumps freeze and have to shut down half time to defrost or need to use the supplementary immersion resistance water heater which is by far the least efficient method to heat water. some units can reverse refergient flow direction to defrost. Another problem is the pumps are far too far from the building (too high of volume of water plus heat loss). I am very sorry to say IMHO this is a poorly designed system. The house is beautiful and I know this owner has install what he believed to be the best way forward environmentally speaking. I don't agree heat pumps are truly fully developed to the extent they need to be for the market and the industry will attract a lot of scam artist contractractors or just people of low understand of thermal dynamics especially if the government is subsidising heat pump technology, just like some solar panel installers that in many cases fit solar panels on both of houses where there is no south facing roof, or in shaded areas by even more shady installers that don't care for their customers but only to get grant aid and meet gov quotas. It's not looking good at all. BTW I'm not in anyway connected to any energy suppliers or biased in any way towards any particular heating system, I just love technology and doing things right, I think this is an overrated scam. Please don't waste your money except you live in spain and need a heat pump to heat your pool then it makes good sense.

[@fatherdamo2]

@@martinmuldoon603We are using our heat pump as an supplement to our home Gas central heating etc. It's currently -1'c outside. Have a Single Air source heat pump, 2.7kw keeping our living/dining room at a steady 21'c, drawing around 510w of power today for that 2.7kw(COP at 7'c is 5.74), half of this power today is coming from our small 1.4kw solar system, it's pretty grey and cloudy today. This morning (5hrs) it has gone through two 5 minute defrosts, I know this as I've been sat next to it. So "half the time" isn't a very accurate statement. Don't think there are many that don't do reverse flow to quickly defrost. I do think it's a viable system in the UK as an additional heat source, wouldn't want to run my whole home from it and I'm sure if there's any gas left in 50 years time people won't believe we had it individually piped to our homes. I don't think we should put all our eggs in one basket, I have five heat systems in use, diesel heater, air forced kerosene torpedo heater, electric heater, gas central heating and the air heat pump, the latter used more than any of the others due to its efficiency of almost 500%.

[@MrMax4music]

@@martinmuldoon603 Much of what you have said can be caveated by your statement 'I think this is an overrated scam'. I think lots of things but many of them probably aren't actually true. There's nothing 'scam' about heat pumps, the only scam is if an installer has not suitably surveyed, specified and installed, but that's the same as anything in life. There's dodgy car repair workshops that will do bad repairs and charge a lot, but it doesn't mean the actual cars are a scam does it? The truth is ASHP's will generally work down to around minus 15C - 20C outside ambient temperature, which is why they are so popular in Scandinavia, Canada etc Obviously they get less efficient the colder it gets, but then, you burn more gas in a combi the colder it gets too. They do reverse flow to clear any frozen condensate on this heat exchanger. This takes about 1 or 2 mins, and then it goes back to normal operation for an hour or several hours depending on its workload. It does not use the immersion to do this, it simply reverses the water in the pipes back. Its wholly incorrect to claim it does this 50% of the time. You also mention distance from buildings and heat loss. I would agree they do seem installed quite far away. Its preferable to install as close as possible, but well insulated underground pipe is very good at minimising the losses. The actually volume isn't a problem at all. In fact, having more volume can improve efficiency (too a point) as it acts like a buffer tank, giving a greater volume of heated water for your heating system to pull from, which means less on off cycling for your hp. One major advantage of the hp over a boiler is you can of course make your own electricity to power it and you cant do that with gas.

[@williamrgutrich7694]

Great idea; add another $20K or $30 K to the job to save a few pence.

[@bobbazley5376]

thanks for posting

[@philsinfield4665]

I've got a small garden nowhere to put one

[@stigkrakpants3052]

no no, yes you have room, order a skip and place pump in skip, win win

[@Ramblingpete]

Nice house man 👍🏿pete the cabby Essex

[@timhancock6626]

I wonder how much more expensive a ground source heat pump would have been. The company I worked for installed a ground source borehole and a Vaillant heat pump and I have to say it was amazingly effective.

[@michaelfraser5723]

still using a lot of electricity

[@stigkrakpants3052]

exactly, air source is total bollocks, ground source every time, the contractor and government are deluded

[@stigkrakpants3052]

@@michaelfraser5723 nah

[@johanneslaxell6641]

@@michaelfraser5723 Bollocks, allways good COP. I went from about 2000 liters of oil to ~6500 kWh of electricity when I went for geothermal heat, ~120 meters deep hole...

[@craigirvine7086]

Which oil company or bank did you work for just out of interest ?

[@michaelhassall6821]

very informative review

[@modernthatchliving1025]

thank you!

[@normanboyes4983]

Thank you for documenting your experience with your ASHP installation. One aspect you did not major on is the difference in comfort you have experienced. I should imagine that with ASHP and the underfloor heating your house is much better all round. I do lament at the avalanche of negative comments that you have suffered, although I expect it is all ‘water off a ducks back’. I do have a few comments though. 1. I am not sure why your installer chose to zone the property (using zone valves) as it considered best practice to have one open zone and control at the manifolds (in order to prevent short cycling). 2. On the solar front, I do not know if you have moved on (as this video was a year ago) but it is most unlikely you will be able to support ASHP(S) in winter (Min Solar production/Maximum heating demand) - although I have not seen the size of your field. It is semantics but it is best to look at solar production as an annual exercise that you net off your electrical bill from the supplier).

[@tvguide4khv]

Thanks for effort!

[@pipedreamtv9697]

Let me do the maths for you You are paying 34pence per Kw, and if in the unlikely event you are getting a COP figure of 1kw in to 3kw out, averaged out across a full season for heating and hot water, that's costing you 11.33pence per kw. If you had a Modern A-rated Condensing Oil Boiler @ 92% efficient you would get out 10.25kw of heat for every litre you burn, at today's price 29/11/22, @ 81pence per litre = 7.09pence per Kw Or at when we hit £1 per litre a while back = 9.7pence per kw but of course that doesn't take in to account that electricity is artificially low at the moment because of government intervention, it should be around 52p per kw. Lots of food for thought! Your best investment was in Insulation, although it's production process is heavily reliant on petrochemicals, it the best way to save on energy by far.

[@ChrisLee-yr7tz]

Exactly. Every video I come across never mentions the economics. You also missed out the massive installation costs and maintenance costs. I'd love to get one and am genuinely interested but it just doesn't stack up.

[@andycoutts1277]

Electricity is less artificially high than it used to be would be more accurate. If gas and electricity were treated similarly in terms of taxes and the levy gas would have to be much more expensive than at present. Having said that no government could price gas and electricity fairly as it would put so many people with gas boilers into fuel poverty.

[@pipedreamtv9697]

@@andycoutts1277 The figures are no better now though, oil is currently 56pence per litre making the divide over costs to run even more favorable towards Oil. Unless you believe Heat pumps are really a green option I'd stick with oil for now.

[@andycoutts1277]

@@pipedreamtv9697, yes I wouldn’t argue the costs but what annoys me is we have a tax and levy system that makes the lowest Carbon way to heat the most expensive, then governments wonder why heat pump adoption is so slow!!

[@thamesmud]

You won't be able to power your ashp completely from solar in Dec and January as there is just not enough hours of sunlite. I have 3.5 kW of solar and am putting in another 12 kW ground mount and 35kwh of battery but I still expect to have to buy electricity on about 90 days a year using the cheapest tariff I can find and I'm heating with gas.

[@DeneF]

Thank you.

[@thamesmud]

Ground source would be a better bet in a property with the land. COP much better in low temperature conditions.

[@willswomble7274]

Surely for such a huge, expensive house by UK standards, with major upgrades planned, you would've been far better putting in a much more efficient ground based HP in the large garden. Bet your posh neighbours are pleased with that big pair of ugly, industrial lumps right on the corner next to them in full view, whirring away night and day? Why not hidden right close up to your house?

[@michaelfraser5723]

Why not LPG?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

Ultimately I would like to put solar panels up to try and get as off grid as possible.

[@Smarty72]

I love the fact people say that you need a REALLY well insulated property for ASHPs to work well. They then compare running costs to the system they replaced that was trying to heat a poorly insulated property - not really a fair comparison! Clearly, any heating system will work better and have lower running costs if the property is well insulated. Let’s be honest, you would have saved lots more money if you just chose to insulate your property properly and continue with your oil fired system!

[@msp5616]

UV light for keeping the tanks germ free...

[@studiosys]

He says he is basing his outlay costs against " todays oil price , which will probably go up " but as we know electricity has trebeled im the last 2 years , for me , from 17 p/ kwhr to 38p and we are told going to rise to 50 p/ kwhr ? Next april, so i cannot see how Heat source can possibly be viable ? The problem is as soon as you try to take advantage of a market by radical change that market will also change so you will end up no better off ... the market will always " find you " and screw you .

[@modernthatchliving1025]

I do not disagree, it is hard to know how it will all work out in the long term. When we put these pumps in our electricity price was 17p/unit, it is now 32p/unit. You might find my latest video on ASHP interesting. Thank you for watching.

[@vrager1564]

Looks very expensive to install and now electricity is double the price it was last year, how expensive is it now? Payback is important. Four years to recover the installation costs and 16-20 years for insulation doesn't add up. Oil cost £4,000 p.a. so did it really cost only £16.000?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

See my answer above to Nhojnhoj67 above.

[@nickfowler9402]

I think pay back periods need to be consideration but should not be a barrier to improving a home. Double glazed windows for example. The saving on heating by installing them will never be repaid during their lifetime but is a contributing factor improving the home.

[@ChrisLee-yr7tz]

@@modernthatchliving1025 Your answer above didn't address the install cost aspect though?

[@kevh3113]

heat pumps are as green as oil smells

[@elizabethwinsor-strumpetqueen]

I live in a tent year round and don't have any heating system at all its normal here in Saudi and I'm not allowed to drive a car because I'm a lady !!

[@ChrisLee-yr7tz]

Nice.

[@stigkrakpants3052]

well your oil will run out and the evil in saudi will be seen, hopefully thne cut off from rest of the planet, same as russia and china

[@seanogallchoir3237]

In the winter, photovoltaic systems may not provide much electricity, thermodynamics may, It is possible the Global warming may be come a global freeze in the event the Gulf Stream slows down or stops, good cellars in the house may provide a solution also in event of Nuclear Biological war, protection. Enjoy our beautiful Ocean Planet & the Festive Season.

[@ecotts]

You cant be that worried about heat or energy having all that open space and windows everywhere lol

[@Mike_5]

Great video learnt a great deal but having an electrical circuit rated at 25A for a heat pump tells you immediately that you are going to use a lot of expensive electricity to heat a very small area

[@modernthatchliving1025]

When the temperature was -9 to -5 over 24 hours we used about 100kWh of electricity. Yesterday the temperature was @10'C over 24hr and we used 14kWh of electricity to heat the house. In itself this is not really useful way of presenting the usage, we have a very large house. One thing that is often forgotten is that when it is that cold you would be using a lot of heating oil as well to heat a house, but most people do not tend to monitor their oil usage on a daily basis. You might find my latest ASHP video of interest. Thank you for watching!

[@stigkrakpants3052]

yes any idiot can tell you that. All a government scam. We need tidal, nuclear, ground source and hydrogen...you'll thank me soon. Only idiots use solar and air source FACT

[@_J.F_]

Unless you are rebuilding your house anyway, or your house has already been built or prepared for this type of heating, it will never be financially viable to install a system like this. Add a solar panel system and it just gets even worse. This is why a lot of home owners will never switch, and why oil and gas boilers will continue to heat the vast majority of homes in the UK for decades to come.

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

I watched all the vid and found it interesting. But it reinforces my belief heat pumps are only suitable if you have a large garden area as you have, rip out all or virtually all your old radiators and pipework as you have and, have the ability to build new extensions on your property so you can add additional insulation as you have. The vast majority of UK building stock are simply not suitable for heat pump installation and existing costs. The politicians are having a laugh forcing these things into existing homes. New builds, yes, I could possibly see them working and heating homes. Existing homes, nope, simply the cost is far too much for the vast majority while those that do, will find the cost benefit isnt worth it.

[@MrAvant123]

I see air source heat pumps as just swapping one energy source for another ie oil to electricity -- not a great solution IMO he'd be better off with bulk propane, its what we have and our property is over 250sqM and we dont spend anything even close to what he quoted. Heat pumps need a well insulated property because they are not that good !

[@ecotts]

You have a plant room in your house, that could have been an office or gaming room. 😒

[@Ramblingpete]

I would have said 40 years Easy so it’s goodbye to all the outlay but if you have the money great pete the cabby essex

[@ducharmehvactraining925]

the 500-pound gorilla in the room is the cost of maintenance and service of your air to water heat pumps. Everything gets dirty as it runs, and the efficiency will drop as it does. Why people don't mention this is puzzling to me. You seem to have covered all of the bases nicely with your preparation and I enjoyed your video, but what about that gorilla?

[@modernthatchliving1025]

We get the heat pumps serviced every year just as we did with our oil boilers. The cost of servicing so far has not been that different to the cost of servicing the oil boilers that we used to have....and less than getting my car serviced....I do agree that servicing does need to be considered and taken seriously. Thank you for your comments about the video, I am glad that you enjoyed it!

[@jamesan2517]

The installation is very expensive, an existing build will require larger radiators, copper pipes and they cannot be hidden. More electricity is required to run them and you still need a back-up source. NOT FOR ME.

[@caterthun4853]

It's said the external unit should be next building.

[@modernthatchliving1025]

You can have the air source pump a long way from the house, you just have to insulate the pipes very well so there is little heat loss from the pipe run (having them buried also helps).

[@Lewis_Standing]

It's incorrect to say you need insulation to run a heat pump. It's simply not true. I was at a wedding where a teepee was heated with a heat pump. 0 insulation. Just need to match your emitters to your heat loss. Does reducing your heat loss make your bills lower yes. Is that true for other heat sources yes. Is it especially true for heat pumps? A little bit. They do work better on an always on trickling in heat basis, but essentially you just need wider pipes and a bigger radiator and could still be efficient and cheaper than gas heating. It's myth.

[@Ramblingpete]

Boy a lot of pipe work and I can see 4 tanks 2 small 2 big man alive to specialised for normal plumber so deep pockets for any problems just saying

[@stigkrakpants3052]

as with all builders i would beware of asking anyone what they suggest, especially with these new technologies, people are not trained, or if they are they lack experience or they have a narrow view and just do/sell/promote what their brief training course has taught them

[@ecotts]

Better off buying a diesel heater off aliexpress and run a vent in to your house, it cost pennies to run and any tom, dick and harry can install and maintain them. You can even use veggie oil, waste oil, red diesel in them, not that you should but you can and its cheap.

[@mgbroadsterJ]

You have plenty of money ,I wouldn't worry .

[@shandor2522]

It’s absurd to say that heat pumps require an insulated house, when gas, oil, wood, and coal do too! Ever spend time in an uninsulated 350 year old English manor house with fireplaces and leaded glass windows? You’re only warm near the fire or under the covers! The point of heat pumps is to harvest heat from the air instead of generating heat from fuel. It’s more efficient to get the same amount of heat from air or ground (by compressing special heat transfer fluid) than burning fuels. This depends on physics, but if electricity is very expensive, the results could indeed favor fuels. Any disadvantages of heat pumps in the UK are likely due to poor quality machinery.

[@jamiematthews7079]

You must have an above average amount of money I bet you did not get much change out of thirty grand

[@edc1569]

Did you not see the property!?

[@bootburner4544]

He's no peasant, that's for sure!

[@stigkrakpants3052]

@@bootburner4544 he burns peasants to keep warm, did you not see a lack of villagers?

[@FrankWoodPhotography]

Good god. What an eye sore!

[@Pinzpilot101]

You could actually paint them green or forest camo.....they don't have to be that ugly grey.😀

[@sunburnfm]

Don't paint these if you want them to work.

[@martinmuldoon603]

I think when this man decided to install 2 separate systems it would have been a much better choice to install a ground source heat pump plus an air source heat pump for mild weather over 15 C otherwise air source type heat pumps freeze and have to shut down half time to defrost or need to use the supplementary immersion resistance water heater which is by far the least efficient method to heat water. some units can reverse refergient flow direction to defrost. Another problem is the pumps are far too far from the building (too high of volume of water plus heat loss). I am very sorry to say IMHO this is a poorly designed system. The house is beautiful and I know this owner has install what he believed to be the best way forward environmentally speaking. I don't agree heat pumps are truly fully developed to the extent they need to be for the market and the industry will attract a lot of scam artist contractractors or just people of low understand of thermal dynamics especially if the government is subsidising heat pump technology, just like some solar panel installers that in many cases fit solar panels on both of houses where there is no south facing roof, or in shaded areas by even more shady installers that don't care for their customers but only to get grant aid and meet gov quotas. It's not looking good at all. BTW I'm not in anyway connected to any energy suppliers or biased in any way towards any particular heating system, I just love technology and doing things right, I think this is an overrated scam. Please don't waste your money except you live in spain and need a heat pump to heat your pool then it makes good sense.

[@mikemiles3809]

You understand hest pumps mate. Not many of us arpund!

[@MrMax4music]

@@mikemiles3809 If you are replying to Martin Muldoon, I'd say (from a wealth of experience with Hp's) he really doesn't understand them at all. Much of what he has said is simply wrong.

[@newblackdog7827]

Yeah…no thanks! Too expensive, too complex and too inefficient. 👎🏻

[@isitme5669]

Save the planet with a wood burner?

[@brianquinn6014]

Fusion it’s FREE

[@trumontstory686]

Had one, will never have one again.

[@deanthornby2026]

All I see is a system that uses more fossil fuels... Rocket mass heaters would save you a fortune ...you'd be self sufficient with you own trees ....total waste of money ...but hey .... It's only money right ?

[@johnmcdyer7297]

For the outlay and return it’s a big no from me just like electric cars no thanks

[@deanthornby2026]

Look up rocket mass heaters on KZbin ...cheap to install Extremely cheap to run and no where as near as ugly or stealable ....they will no doubt wake up to find them two great big ugly looking boxes missing one day

[@northpointproductionsltd1592]

I have driven all-electric since 2016 after previously driving ICE cars from 1981. This usually mindless and often totally unresearched negativity about electric cars is like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Regardless of their environmental benefits, and their much lower running costs, BEVs are also superior to ICE vehicles to drive and own in just about every way. It’s ludicrous to be so dismissive without finding out the real facts and benefits of pure electric motoring.

[@Lee-70ish]

@@northpointproductionsltd1592 i have researched the price difference between a basic ev and a basic internal combustion car has to be added to the running costs plus of course the extra interest paid in borrowing more money to purchase an ev. And with the new EV tax coming in the actual running cost when you have upwards of 15 grand to use buying fuel, the difference is no where near as big as the EV advocates claim. And thats before the home charger tariffs that are on the way come in. Yes EVs are great but they are not as cheap nor as environmentally advantageous as people think.

[@ChrisLee-yr7tz]

@@northpointproductionsltd1592 Could you let us know how much you spent and what depreciation you're looking at since 2016?

[@isaachunt5799]

@@Lee-70ish we own a nissan leaf. we've gone from 400 quid a month on petrol to 40 quid a month for electric. plus 30 quid road tax from 400 quid. nothing to service. just check it twice a year. for commuting they cant be beat. and so smooth and nice to drive. in the summer i have my 2017 v8 chevy camaro for longer trips

[@johnhemmant]

Heat pumps are crap hence why hes walking around his house with a coat on lol