Our Government Lied About Tonkin. See Them Doing It & Debating It

[@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker]

Oliver Stone's Vietnam Memories - kzbin.info/www/bejne/moK3o4eqprxgq80

[@SamSung-nf6tr]

They lied about everything.

[@cheri238]

Happy Veterans Day, Nov. 11, 2023, to all our men and women who have who have served and those who have passed on in all these wars. We have had only 20 years of peace since the creation of our country. American history and world histories on all sides. Yes, Oliver Stone is one of our great directors of films and documentaries. We all owe him for his service in Vietnam and his truths. Thank you again, David. I just had to rewatch this one again this afternoon.

[@djones1379cleo]

We never recovered from this lie. The deceit and lack of representation has only gotten worse

[@deloreslandeis1008]

Amen. This was a crime against our young men and women. While I support our Armed Forces, our government deceived them.

[@georgezink8256]

Our government at Ashville Nc v a hospital used me for medical experiments using 4 antibiotics never used on human before after injecting the sars 2 virus in me? With prison full of convicts, they could have used the murderers by no they have right ? Us veterans have no rights

[@nodescriptionavailable3842]

Hence the 87,000 new armed irs agents to ensure taxation without representation when people start getting fed up, no pun intended lol

[@djones1379cleo]

@@nodescriptionavailable3842 can you see the other 2 replies?

[@jjeverson2269]

@@djones1379cleonope

[@Bigbudda12]

Johnson and some of his cabinet members should of been charged with war crimes against humanity. Stay alert, educate yourself. Live and love within your means. My motto.

[@karlhawley342]

Johnson got away with murder a lot of people made a lot of money off that war😢

[@TracieSmithpomeranian]

My late father served in Vietnam as a Green Beret. He lost the lower part of his left leg. He suffered from illnesses related to Agent Orange and PTSD for the rest of his life. I also live with consequences of Agent Orange.

[@chesterproudfoot9864]

Even knowing this, there are still people who insist on being proud of the role they played in the mass murder and destruction that followed. Instead of being pissed off at their government. It's absolutely mind boggling.

[@hawaiingirlbeth]

Our government lied? You dont say 😂 Thankful for your videos!!

[@jsmariani4180]

Don't you forget that before voting for Trump.

[@alfrede.neuman8898]

My older brother has ischemic heart disease from Agent Orange. He was at Dong Ha on the DMZ and served as a Navy Medic.

[@drewpall2598]

This was very interesting thanks David Hoffman; I know that Wayne Morse was one of two senators at the time voted against The Gulf of Tonkin resolution he was a strong opposition to the Vietnam conflict and felt we needed to get out of Southeast Asia. Our Vietnam Vets the men and women who served during the Vietnam conflict have my up most respect, they got a raw deal from the politicians at the time, sadly the returning Vietnam Vets took the blunt of the anger felt by the folks back here in American over the handling of our Vietnam police that divided this great country of ours. To our Vietnam Vets. thank you for your service and sacrifice during the Vietnan conflict rest in peace to those who were KIA or died from Agent Orange or from PTSD 🙏

[@karenwaddell9396]

Also peace to the families, girlfriends and friends of those lost.

[@Time4Peace]

No thoughts given to the Vietnamese who died as a result of the war? The civilians (whole families, men, women, boys and girls) who died horribly and the Vietnamese soldiers who died fighting against odds to liberate their country from colonialism. And those who continue to bear the suffering from the ravage of bombs and Agent Orange. Such is the immorality of both the American domestic and foreign policies pointed out by MLK.

[@drewpall2598]

David, in light of just learning that Henry Kissinger turned 100 today it's ironic that you uploaded The Gulf of Tonkin incident on the same day considering that Kissinger played a big role during the Vietnam conflict and President Nixion bombing of Cambodia.

[@SusannahPerri]

Wow, thank you for sharing this, David. I was in grade school and totally clueless when the U.S. got involved in the Vietnam war, but by the time of this discussion I was in high school and actively protesting against it. Such a tragedy, and we still haven’t learned. By the time it was over, I had lost several former school mates, and another who lost one of his leg in that senseless war.

[@BillySBC]

The old man rocks among his dreams A prisoner of the porch "The light" he said, "at the end of the tunnel, was nothing but a burglars torch" And them that was caught in the cover, all all rich and free But they chained my mind, to an endless tune And they took my only son from me... And I know it's true Oh so true 'Cause I saw it on TV... (John Fogerty)

[@BVi-vl3pg]

They learned perfectly. If you still think wars are accidental, keep digging

[@tuckerbugeater]

@@BVi-vl3pg The people are so easily provoked to war.

[@cheri238]

Happy Veterans Day, Nov. 11, 2023, to all our men and women who have served and those who have passed.

[@nutsbutdum]

Phew, I for one I'm glad that our government has since stopped lying about these life or death situations.

[@IllumTheMessage]

Lol 😂

[@thastayapongsak4422]

you sure about that

[@skydive1424]

🤣🤣🤣

[@garyanthony4854]

I’m not a smart man. Does this video show it’s always been the same old thing in the senate and congress deciding anything? Is today in 2023 the same old thing? Thank you David for posting this. I was spared Vietnam only because the ended the draft one year before.

[@wordlemethis2347]

Thank-you for this, David Hoffman.

[@BeautifuluglyDTES]

If the US government says another country is up to no good,then you can be damn sure that they are doing the same if not worse.

[@georgezink8256]

As a severely wounded Vietnam veteran I see here how my government had no backbone, had in 1964 , they had decided not to win the war , in 67 I went to Vietnam only to be severely wounded in battle somewhat close to Cambodia

[@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker]

I am sorry for that wound and what you have suffered since. I hope that your day in future days go well. David Hoffman filmmaker

[@drewpall2598]

@George Zink... Thank you for your service and sacrifice during the Vietnan conflict and welcome Home Sir. You and all of our Vietnam Vets have my up most respect.

[@wraithface4410]

Thank you for your service. I study history at University in the U.K so I'm very interested in knowing a little bit about your experience in Vietnam if you wouldn't mind sharing it? Kind regards, Adam

[@georgezink8256]

@@wraithface4410 look up Rome Plows and our job was cut down jungle with our cats

[@BillySBC]

Paranoid people can easily be convinced to respond in a paranoid way.

[@williambarry8015]

Its weird how we can see this stuff plain as day when its in our reaview mirror but when its right in front of our face we are blind to it.

[@Timzorrr]

A lot of people see it real time. The government’s offensive against these people and people who question is to call them conspiracy theorists, unpatriotic, spreading dis/misinformation… basically labeled crazy. WMD’s and giving over 100 billion to the Military Industrial complex for the proxy war we are in with Russia. On & on :)

[@OneAdam12Adam]

Hence the saying: Hindsight is 20/20.

[@gmachat]

Plenty of people call out the BS, but get smeared by the corporate press as conspiracy theorists

[@cybercamp2900]

Big thanks for this reminder 👍🏻👍🏻 At least there was a discussion of war, not like now when the PEOPLE’S VOICE is completely IGNORED in these grave grave issues! 😡

[@BillySBC]

Jim Morrison's father, George Morrison, was the US Navy Carrier Division Commander during the Gulf of Tonkin which gave the Johnson Administration the rationale it needed to escalate the Vietnam War.

[@low-keyrighteous9575]

That's probably why Jim Morrison disowned them and said his folks were dead. They were dead to him

[@deloreslandeis1008]

Thank you, thank you, David, for sharing this. It brings it to just like yesterday.

[@HeritageWealthPlanning]

Can you imagine being drafted to go to fight in Vietnam on behalf of this evil government? And if you didn’t you went to prison. My dad was supposed to go but my mum was pregnant with me so he didn’t have to. We lived in Maine so he would have gone to Canada. That’s not being a coward, by the way.

[@BillySBC]

The people making the decisions at that time, the people who were fully in charge of government, were World War II Era people, they thought in different terms and they thought in terms of "Soviet Threat" and the "Yellow Peril" and there was incredible fear and neurosis involving The Cold War. They felt they were stopping what they considered to be a menace and existential threat to free-living people around the world.

[@jonnovak6856]

@@BillySBC No they didn't. War is a racket. Plain and simple.

[@BillySBC]

@@jonnovak6856 It's not always a racket, but the Vietnam War certainly was.

[@markstewart4501]

Many American Christians would have/force us to believe that Jesus was a WARMONGER. They can't show us one scripture, but through their spinning and silver tongues they teach that Jesus was preaching the rationality of slaughter. If their is a Satan that tricks us all, it is the American Christian.

[@chesterproudfoot9864]

It takes a lot of courage to seek refuge in another country. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. Lucky your dad didn't have to leave or go to war.

[@cherylcallahan5402]

David Hoffman Blessings for everyone

[@cybercamp2900]

AWESOME CONTENT !! Must watch, especially today. Insert another country or another year and it seems sadly irritatingly like a rinse and repeat system for big$$$ to a bunch of us out here.

[@billdestroyerofworlds]

This is a very fascinating video. On one hand, you have these congressmen sitting out basically stating they had a complete lack of foresight that led them to doing what they did. That lack of foresight really defines the whole entire decade with decisions that have reverberated since to today. This was a country that had brought down two great empires twenty years before and now was fighting fruitlessly in the jungles of a backwater former French colony. At the same time you have a deep amount of humility and ability to discuss things that you really just don't see from our modern politicians. These people were of the same stock and talents as the ones today, but yet we cannot have those types of substantial debates.

[@alanbardwell2726]

Yes. That is also what struck me: a group of Congressmen in a televised mini-session discussing the merits of the Tonkin Resolution. No name calling, no shouting matches. Reason seems to prevail. Of course, 1967 was not an election year and it's an "oops" or mea culpa or walk-back opportunity for some of them. The old guy asks a reasonable question, paraphrased: "What have any of you done about this?" The consensus answer, paraphrased: "Nothing, because we are practical politicians." Evidence that reelection, even back then, tells a congressman what to do.

[@damanyocum149]

Kissinger needs to be tried as a war criminal

[@skevosmavros]

The Encyclopaedia Britannia entry attached to this video for context is quite interesting.

[@nodescriptionavailable3842]

This is why i look for old books at garage sales, I have an old time life book that mentions successful weather control operations as early as the 50s I believe it was, in a couple decades you'll be called crazy for knowing any facts at all and there won't be any easy way to know truth from fiction because they're trying to "protect" us so hard lol

[@OneAdam12Adam]

Thank you David. This adds to my reeducation after watching a stunning documentary called "The History of Ford in Cologne, Germany." I've learned that our bodies are just commodities, like pork bellies. Just cannon fodder for the rich folks and their real life games of RISK.

[@rw6723]

Truthful history is a conscience to Remind people so they will not repeat moral failures. Thank GOD for film makers

[@allenng2348]

Listening to them debating I was a bit amazed to hear my--mostly speculative or imaginative--notions of what goes wrong in the governing process, demonstrated for me. We talk of the "rule of law" and that the text of the law, as written, should be the final standard of that law, but to hear the law-makers themselves be so surprised by the dunderheaded bugs and omissions in the "code" they'd written left me taken aback. Maybe lawyers and politicians should be required to take and pass some programming courses to demonstrate that they can think through the consequences of the words they seem to so carelessly toss around.

[@lindaward3156]

it was nice to hear intelligent debate and consideration of what's better for our country over party. I thought I remembered when that was the focus instead of the bs of today.

[@ThaRealChuckD]

Wow. John Conyers actually had a conscience back then.

[@cindirose3390]

So timely. Thank you thank you

[@quintessenceSL]

There are some who still believe this is true.

[@cindirose3390]

What exactly do you mean, sincerely

[@antonyjh1234]

@@poopybutt9669 Maybe weapons of mass destruction would have been a better example or are you saying Covid didn't or doesn't exist?

[@quintessenceSL]

@@cindirose3390 There are people I personally know who believe the North Vietnamese attacked US ships, which was the justification to send troops to Viet Nam. Even with evidence to the contrary, they cite it as re-writing history.

[@williambarry8015]

Mcnamarra killed the coolest Ford Thunderbird ever.: The 55-57. That should tell you all you need to know about that dude.

[@cheri238]

Thank you, David.❤

[@justinedevoe7166]

Thank you David. Very interesting. ♥️👍🏼

[@rufusray]

It's funny , I wonder if "they" realise that putting a context warning on something is as good as letting anyone with the mental fortitude to allow critical thinking to know they are over the target. Kind of backfiring on them if you have half a braincell.

[@thewkovacs316]

thank you for this yes, we were lied into nam yes...lbj and mcnamara were war criminals yes, they knew from the get go that there was no way to win in nam but isnt it nice to watch politicians from both sides of the aisle have an actual calm debate on the issues?

[@ferney2936]

Yes, it struck me as relatively orderly & respectful. Is it different now in the US?

[@thewkovacs316]

@@ferney2936 are you kidding? these type of debates are long gone..

[@madashell7224]

Videos like this is most likely causing KZbin to reduce David's exposure. I spend endless hours watching KZbin bc I'm in bed recovering from injury. Most time spent watching independent political news channels. Some channels were canceled or penalized for incorrect reasons. I hear the complaints from these KZbin creators. Probably why KZbin recommened David's channel to me because of its political videos. KZbin has changed. I wonder if this channel would be recommended to me more than one time or not at all. It's important for us to Share if we like this channel. TY.

[@karlhawley342]

and then they turn around and took the excess social security money to pay for Vietnam 😱👎🙈🇺🇸🙋🏻

[@karenwaddell9396]

I am impressed by the civil discussion of these members of congress. Ah, the old days of serious discussion without name calling and put downs. Just an intelligent thoughtful discussion.

[@winstonsmith6204]

Listen to how they speak. Today: Our political "leaders" sound like clowns

[@karenwaddell9396]

John Conyers, under rated man who should be remembered.

[@jamesdelcol3701]

Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara had become a great spokesperson for the warmongers behind him. He knew a lot more than appears in his memoirs. He was great statistics and people listened to the numbers. Reminds me of Gen. Colin Powell arguing for WMD's Iraq. McNamara was a very loyal servant.

[@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker]

Except as I recall James, Powell wasn't told the truth and McNamara helped create the lie if he wasn't its original creator. David Hoffman filmmaker

[@flobp2381]

@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker Powell, knew. They all knew. Look up the "Iraq Liberation act of 1998" as it, made regime change in Iraq NATIONAL policy. Read the ACT it'll explain everything. It didn't matter if GWB or Gore was President or not, regime change was going to happen. The Democrats were calling for regime change in IRAQ almost all the way to the invasion. They even sent a letter to GWB demanding he do something. Were there WMDs in Iraq? Operation Desert Fox in 1998 was to take out WMD sites - or was it a timely distratcion for Clintion's Impeachemnt? So confusing.

[@jamesdelcol3701]

@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker Good comment. I read McNamara's "In Retrospect" he doesn't seem to know the mafia was all around him. He either stuffed all knowledge of opium trade and heroin or he knew it and couldn't do anything about it. A 1/3 of his army was hooked on dope. Was he stupid enough to think this was coincidence? He had to know Laos was already going on with the CIA, but he omits things as he wants or they didn't tell him what was going on. JFK didn't know what was going on until he ordered 1,000 "Advisors" out of the country. That meant the war was over and so was the heroin trade. They shot President Diem Nov 2, 1963 and 20 days later JFK was murdered in Dallas. They shot him and continued moving the dope making trillions in today's money. Our American corporations were supplying the precursor chemicals. Then LBJ signs off on the Phoenix Program March 21, 1967 and a year later the Phoenix Program does the My Lai Massacre. 500 women, elderlies and children. Not one Vietnamese soldier. LBJ pulls out of the race and RFK starts to look like the frontrunner, talking about ending Vietnam. RFK is shot dead and LBJ's Peace Talks on Vietnam fail. I don't think McNamara really knew from being on the inside. He surmised and hints all over his memoir. You need a lot of background information to understand what Robert S. McNamara is talking about. You can feel his mood change and he says weird things when he explains JFK's death. He tells the story, but you have to understand he's not blatant. He discussed how the Diem coup happened without JFK's consent and in fact, JFK sent 3 verified messages to CIA SEA HQ ordering them not to do a coup on President Diem and that we are sending 1,000 advisors home. .

[@georgezink8256]

Not one word about the conditions of us soldiers on ground using a rifle that jammed far to many times😊

[@TheKeithvidz]

not a one saw a jail cell - jfk died for not wanting to warmonger and enrich the MIC.

[@TheKeithvidz]

@@vhufeosqap do shut up and eat some fact.

[@collectiveconsciousness5314]

@@vhufeosqapNo, it was Dimona. And the guy who killed Oswald was working for them.

[@collectiveconsciousness5314]

@@vhufeosqap Who called JFK to Dallas and filmed his assassination in the first place? Rubinstein was shown to be in contact with Sam Bloom, who was in control of both the motorcade route and moving Oswald from the station to the county jail. Zapruder of the 33rd degree (and also one of them) just so happened to be the one who filmed it.

[@collectiveconsciousness5314]

@@vhufeosqap Oswald himself said he was a patsy though. And how do you explain the shot from the front?

[@collectiveconsciousness5314]

@@vhufeosqap The Dallas Citizens Council, the chairman being one Sam Bloom, who had connections to Jacob Rubinstein (the latter had the former's contact information in his home as an investigation found). And Zapruder shares a common origin with those two, as well as being a 33rd degree FM (like George Dealey happened to be).

[@davidroberts6774]

Thanks for this! Very topical...

[@scheenafarmer3979]

24:35 - this brother is on the right track and he knows it.

[@Time4Peace]

Thoughts must be given to the Americans who died bravely for their countries and for the surviving vets. They must also be given to the Vietnamese who died in the war. The Vietnamese civilians (whole families, men, women, boys and girls) who died horribly and the Vietnamese soldiers who died fighting against odds to liberate their country from colonialism. And those who continue to bear the suffering from the ravage of bombs and Agent Orange. Such is the immorality of both the American domestic and foreign policies pointed out by MLK. Let's remember the lessons before engaging in endless wars today and gearing up for more tomorrow.

[@omadayebesan2498]

HOW SAD FOR THE VICTIMS OF THE BARBARIC ATROCITIES COMMITTED IN THIS WAR.IF DECISIONMAKING HAS CCANGED,AT ALL,IT HAD GOTTEN WORSE.

[@matthewfarmer2520]

Thanks for sharing this information about Vietnam and the government lies about tonkin, our involvement in Vietnam war. Thanks David Hoffman film maker 🎥🎞️ i even like the encyclopedia Britannica you had the real video of the ship.

[@Alsatiagent]

To this day @7:55 it is still never referred to as the invasion of Vietnam. By definition it was an invasion. Young people might be surprised by such civil discourse between opposing political parties among relatively well informed members.

[@skydive1424]

56000 body bags later, being kicked out of Vietnam.....

[@scheenafarmer3979]

Basically, I feel, see, taste, smell and hear the same frackle-knackel bull. We have voted for things and people based on other people's thoughts and ideas for the moment of the world and the way we lived. One thing we did not know was that it was a conversation and a debate amongst others that had their own interests in the world. It's a game we played with the way we were misguided to do something like choose people that didn't have the people's heart in mind. This is nonsense and people spend time watching things they don't understand more than they lived their life. I don't know nothing's except what makes sense to me.

[@idklol4197]

Very based video Dave

[@henzohewson]

That Republican, William Bray, really had no idea what the Vietnam War was like, what the Viet cong was or why they were fighting. The Viet cong was a guerrilla force mostly comprised from South Vietnamese villagers, rice paddy farmers and teenagers. They weren’t “invaders from the North” - the NVA were. But he’s thinking that a “strong show of force” is what’s needed. And it was that kind of thinking which lost the Vietnam War for America.

[@timfronimos459]

Mr Hofman is that John Conyers in the video at 6:10. Sure sounds like him. If I am mistaken my apologies. Watching from Detroit.

[@HeritageWealthPlanning]

And who was Admiral Morrison’s son Anyone wanna guess?

[@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker]

I think you mean who was Adm. Morrison's son. David Hoffman filmmaker

[@HeritageWealthPlanning]

@@DavidHoffmanFilmmaker rigjt on David. Fixed it

[@2dub2steady]

He was born in Melbourne, Fl.

[@djones1379cleo]

Jim who sang for the Doors

[@HeritageWealthPlanning]

@@djones1379cleo exactly! Kinda suspicious- as if this whole thing was one big government propaganda machine out of laurel canyon

[@karlhawley342]

Johnson's lie he got away with murder😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@bluzcompany2293]

War is the ultimate deception,Sun Zue says, the art of war...

[@bearb1asting]

David, I hope people have learned your ways.

[@MutethatBozo]

Wayne Morse was right!

[@SongSwan]

If America had one tenth of the commitment to it's self as it has other countries things would be different.Even today there are those who thinks we should sacrifice everything for Ukraine while America is invaded from the south and Americans struggle.

[@FortuneZer0]

You cant win a war if you dont strike the enemy (north viet nam). You loose a war when you abandon your ally after signing an armistice with the enemy and then let him invade your ally anyways.

[@tylerm0089]

uhhh, possibly? Im pretty sure you cant win a war when its all guerilla warfare in a rough landscape where the people lived their whole lives. not to mention the advantage to legitimately hating us.

[@antonyjh1234]

lose

[@FortuneZer0]

@@tylerm0089 After the tet atrocity the viet cong had lost all sympathy in south viet nam. But no, the american retards still didnt go and beat the base of their operation in north viet nam.

[@sixstringhans-tone5574]

They signed that armistice obviously on purpose, government is all backwards, the gov is supposed to be transparent an people are private……

[@chesterproudfoot9864]

Are you talking about the ally whose leader the US assassinated and replaced with yet another puppet government? Hard to swallow perhaps, but the South Vietnamese was slaughtering its own people who asked for help from the North. Just like with the French and every other imperialist, the Vietnamese people did NOT want the US there.

[@SandfordSmythe]

Why the outrage? If it wasn't that, it would have been something else.

[@eddiekulp1241]

Nonsense to say this incident didn't happen . Sailors on ships say otherwise

[@amerigovespucci3956]

We had to get involved in Vietnam because Eisenhower Nixon administration signed S.E.A.T.O rightwing after dein bein phu 1954. " domino effect " president Eisenhower. 80 percent of the French war against THE VIETMINH in Vietnam was paid for by the Eisenhower/ Nixon administration of the 1950s and U.S special forces advisers started arriving in south Vietnam as early as 1957.

[@KlinsmannsMullet]

Republicans & Democrats being able to sit down and have a civil debate on what was probably one of the most devisive subjects in US history. Imagine attempting to set up up a similar debate between the same parties on a similarly divisive subject nowadays.

[@theresamusser4390]

M a n where is intelligent democratic discourse these days!?

[@satoshijames4134]

Red Statist Master good. Blue Statist Master bad.

[@terryallen6005]

Dolly parton for president sylvedter stalone vice president

[@tyqwdybijo]

Who is the black man speaking

[@ArtduJour]

At least they had better manners than what is normalized now

[@fairygurl9269]

🪄🃏🪖

[@psikeyhackr6914]

I bought McNamara's documentary Fog of War around 2003. Must have watched it half a dozen times at least. His grammar school teacher seated kids by performance. He had to be in the first seat. Kids that function that way succeed and become "Leaders". There is something wrong with people who don't think like them.

[@TheMack]

Agreed. I also bought Fog Of War and was astonished when McNamara admitted that the Gulf Of Tonkin was based on a lie. These types of "leaders" have very little compassion or empathy, even if they disguise it as the "fog of war"...

[@bsvphillipines4728]

so they fired torpedoes at you and missed everything and you sunk all of them with a evil stare.