Efficiency Showdown! Rivian R1T vs Ford F-150 Lightning - Which Is The Most Frugal Electric Truck?

[@davva360]

The Lightning is impressive to be honest, to be so much bigger and so close in efficiency was surprising. Very interesting test

[@Nate7700]

Its also slower with fewer motors if im not mistaken.

[@noassruncis3963]

F-150 dealer price 135 000 $

[@LearningFast]

The biggest takeaway from this test is that both of these EV trucks are extremely capable.

[@howlers8]

oh agreed. I'd still take the F150 over the rivian though. ahh if only I had the money

[@dennissmith7214]

@@howlers8 😳😆😆👌🏽 …………If I did truck stufff more than not yeah the f150 would be my choice but I would have to go with the more specialty Rivian as I don’t do that kinda stuff often and would actually take the R1T off road from time to time! 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@skyhawk21]

Capable of what battery degradation and no mile range for trips???

[@frbe0101]

@@howlers8 The rivian is more sporty and camping, the F150 is more for hard work.

[@Obxhatman]

Capable of not using gas , but not capable of doing what the majority of people buying a truck need it to do , that is , tow , haul , and do work. Without a lot of planning on where and when to charge. That is the main component to a truck. Rivian never promoted itself to be a truck you work out of , it is said to be more of an adventure truck for off road use. It is that. Ford claims to be a work truck and no matter how you slice it , EV trucks are years away from being close to what they need to be for that purpose , no matter the brand.

[@dannywinget]

The Ford did way better than I thought it would!

[@0920121908250727]

Would be curious how much more efficiency the Rivian has with tonneau cover closed and in Conserve Mode. I find my R1T I’m Conserve Mode impressive. Don’t use it unless range anxiety creeps in, but nice to know it is there! Impressed by the Ford in this test!

[@Leggir]

As Adam stated, the truck with the tonneau cover closed is less efficient. I did a 400 mile round trip last Saturday with my 2016 Colorado and tried with the cover (Bakflip) open and closed and got 0.7 L/100 km less (1.4 MPG-US more) with it open. I'm going to put my chin splitter back on next week as I don't off-road anymore, but in testing I got about 3 MPG-US more or 1.5L/100 km less when the splitter was on prior.

[@TylerZ]

@@adamgreen911 The Rivian was designed with the tonneau cover in mind - rear wing over the cab directs air to reattach smoothly to the bed with the tonneau cover closed. It's not a big difference, but the Rivian is different than other trucks in that way.

[@h8GW]

IN MY DAY Mythbusters already concluded that open bed, tailgate up is the most efficient.

[@Rhaman68]

I find it odd that you elect not to use a more efficient mode that leads to longer range and less cost per mile. Would you please expand as to why? Thanks

[@0920121908250727]

@@Rhaman68 Conserve Mode disconnects the rear motors on the Rivian. This puts more stress on the front motors. I also don't think it's as safe as All Purpose Mode with all four motors due to the one pedal driving and the reduced amount of regen you get in Conserve Mode when you take your foot off the accelerator if you're rapidly trying to go to the brake pedal. It's also going to wear your front tires down more rapidly. I do find I use Conserve Mode more in the winter when I'm goosing extra mileage or I'm doing highway driving.

[@LearningFast]

The extra effort Kyle does to make sure these tests are done properly is definitely appreciated. Nobody does more reliable and accurate tests than Kyle does.

[@michaelabsher8341]

Its that why they tested on a day the Ford won't have to use its old technology heating system that will kill range in a real cold environment?

[@rogerstarkey5390]

"Accurate tests" Haven't seen Bjørn then?

[@bluetoad2668]

Companies don't loan vehicles to people who give honest reviews. Of course,why would they?

[@tommorrow5299]

Ha ha ha ha! Bless your heart!

[@curtisbme]

Interesting to see them so close so that you really can get a feel for how much bigger the 150 is.

[@DetroitBORG]

It's striking just how much quieter the Lighthing is compared to the Rivian.

[@bruceryan5919]

another metric that is dependent on info we can't be sure of.

[@bossturbo]

Different phones/microphones, who's to say.

[@mini2nut67]

@@adamgreen911 Shocked that this wasn’t discovered on the test mules. Didn’t any of the test drivers notice this?

[@billwaterhouse5894]

@@adamgreen911 🤔...interesting statement, almost like you're in the know?

[@mini2nut67]

@@adamgreen911 I agree. The “let’s get it to market now” probably overrode the cost involved in retrofitting existing vehicles when a newer seal became available

[@robertfuller9522]

I’m glad you put the trucks side by side for a size comparison.

[@mini2nut67]

That’s exactly what I clicked on the video. It appears that the Rivian is a 7/8 size of the F150. I would love to see a front, rear, and side comparison between the two.

[@davidrhp847]

Rivian R1T STARTING AT: $79,500 ....... Ford F-150 Lightning STARTING AT: $41,769 How is that a comparison?

[@timberwofe333]

@@davidrhp847 Yeah I'd buy a Lightning right now if I could get one at base trim and pricing, but I don't think Ford is going to prioritize the low trims for production and also by the time they do get around to selling the low cost base model they will have likely long ago eaten away at the federal tax credit incentive. I have reservations for both the R1T and Lightning but it appears that the R1T is going to be available to me first and will have the federal tax incentive and I reserved it in Nov 2021 so I'm locked in at the lower pricing from before March 2022 so that may just make the R1T a good buy because I just can't get my hands on a base model Lightning any time soon from what I can tell.

[@robertfuller9522]

@@davidrhp847 not a price comparison but a size comparison. I did not realize the Rivian was more like a bigger midsize truck, the Ford is a good bit bigger overall.

[@matthewsometimesmatt3620]

@@davidrhp847 Rivian base model has way more features and luxuries and capability than the Lightning base model. To get comparable in the Lightning, you are at or exceeding the Rivian base price model. Not to mention, anecdotally, most Ford dealers are tacking on a 20-50% markup to the MSRP of the Lightning, so your actual cost will be nowhere near the Starting At price.

[@AlexRapada-ft6tm]

Probably the most busiest EV reviewer on youtube hands down. Keep it up!!

[@commanderroddi7742]

For the price of an XLT/Lariat, THe lightning is really impressing me!

[@manuelias86]

I drive my R1T in conserve on the highway and all purpose in the city. However, I just went into sport mode yesterday just for the fun of it and I had forgotten how good it was in sport mode. I may change my daily driving mode.

[@heathwirt8919]

Fun doesn't come cheap! :)

[@kirkm3354]

The Rivian truly feels like something new and special the Ford is just a regular truck that is electric.

[@hotrod7603]

That's what ford wants the lightning is a work truck meanwhile the rivian is a toy

[@torocars9227]

@@hotrod7603 Ford isn’t ? The real toy are people buying the Lighting thinking they will get its advertised price. Dealership and Ford are toying with the market.

[@scenicdepictionsofchicagolife]

I mean that's the point... The F150 lightning is just another engine type option. Ford has always offered tons of different engine options for the F150. Multiple gas, hybrid, diesel, and now electric powertrains is what the F series has always been about. They aren't going to make a "special" version for the electric customers cause that makes no sense when the base platform is already so good. EV customers are not special nor are EVs themselves. It's just a car.

[@hallkbrdz]

@@scenicdepictionsofchicagolife Actually they have stated they are. The next F150 lightning (v2) is supposed to be a ground-up design. Now I take that with a big grain of salt, however I could see many changes to the frame to gain space for larger batteries and easier mounting for motors.

[@darpompie4354]

As someone that's in construction and uses Trucks, a truck is exactly what I want. "feeling new and special" are for people that want to take a leisurely stroll to the lake and stare at their truck instead of enjoying the lake. Having a mobile power plant for all your tools is a game changer. Having a huge frunk with low entry and power outlets is a game changer. The larger and standard size of the F150 gives access to the billion accessories out there for the f150. Zone lighting all around the truck is a detail that so many miss in these reviews and is vastly important. And lastly, that F150 you call "a regular truck" has been the best selling vehicle for decades. There is a reason for that and it's called having decades of input and experience of fine tuning trucks. Rivian is also teetering on survivability. Having a fleet of work truck and then realizing you have no where to service them is a no go for any business that relies on their trucks. The Rivian seems to be a great truck for people who are use to cars, or are lifestyle enthusiast and can deal with the risks in the event the company goes bankrupt. To say the Rivian has some magic beans that make it special. I'll give that a hard eye roll. For our company, the reputation, experience, and capability of the F150 makes it the only choice at this time.

[@newscoulomb3705]

27:42 In my opinion, you're overthinking this. I think that accounting for thermal management is completely valid because it represents how well the EVs can manage pack temperature while driving. If the Lightning is better at maintaining pack temperature while driving but the R1T draws that energy later while charging, I think it's a valid thing to measure.

[@howlers8]

on that one thing, that kind of makes it a wash. a tie if you will

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@howlers8 Yup. That's why I think it's important. Nothing is free, and if the battery conditioning while charging prolongs the charging stop, it also impacts trip speeds.

[@shanec3984]

I think they like to account for that because the thermo management would be much less of an issue if it were were slow charging at home. So fast charging to 70%, driving 60 miles, and immediately fast charging to 70% is kind of a stress test on the batteries as well and not just a fuel economy test.

[@ssu7653]

@@shanec3984 Charging is part of the test, so how the truck handle charging SHOULD be part of the test. Just charging overnight at home, both should keep 1 full day for 99% of people so why care about charging?

[@thomasjacques5286]

that led light gap on the F-150 is not what I expected from legacy manufacturers and the vehicle they have been building for half a century.

[@mramseyISU]

I saw a lariat spec Lightning on Sunday and the fit and finish on the grill wasn’t as good as I was expecting.

[@GregHassler]

Everyone crushes Tesla for "build quality" but that kind of thing is 100% par for the course for Ford, and nobody bats an eye.

[@nikladk1996]

For the Europeans: the Lightning's 1.9 mi/kwh is about 32.7 kwh/100km

[@peterryan7340]

Thank you

[@jm100368]

How many stones does the Lightning weigh?

[@KamleshMallick]

What is the wH/km number. I just don’t get the kWh/100 km reading. Efficiency is best when you express in terms of wH/km

[@nikladk1996]

@@KamleshMallick 327, it's the same number, just multiply it with 10

[@KamleshMallick]

@@nikladk1996 that is high. Thank you!

[@rodneylw10]

Great review. A couple things, you said, "this is the least efficient F150 Lightning you can buy. That is because it has the big battery" Which is true as the Platinum comes standard with the extended range battery; however, you mentioned something that is important to "towing truck" peeps that is a major difference- payload rating. See, the payload is the weight the trucks can carry, not pull. It includes all cargo and people and, wait for it...tongue weight of your trailer- all subtracted from that payload. The Rivian 1T is rated at 11K towing (pull weight) and carry 1760 lbs. The Rivian 1S is 7.7K towing and 1800 lbs. payload. The F150 Lightning tows up to 10K, less pull power than the Rivian but, depending on trim level, can carry up to 2235 lbs. according to Ford. The loaded platinum is around 1850# My point is that it isn't just about the bed size but a tongue weight benefit too. I REALLY like the Rivian. The Rivian looks like a mid-sized truck and would also handle better just by looking. The Rivian is like sporty and the F150 like a Lincoln or similar. The R1T might be closer to the Lariat trim. The Platinum is real wood, etc. The Rivian road and vehicular noise was evident compared to the tomb-like Ford. I have an Airstream with a 1000# tongue so tongue weight is critical to me. Thanks for a great comparison. I believe they are both great trucks. I ordered a Platinum F150 hybrid as my truck is my daily driver and also my towing vehicle. I have calculated that it is about 100-120 towing miles per charge with either the Rivan or the Lightning based on the youtube review tests so far. MotorTrend guess months ago that the Lightning would tow about 100 miles or less. I cannot drive two hours to charge almost two hours (1:45 min to full they say). I am looking for the day when we can tow 400 miles with an EV! The big surprise to me was the Lightning. Bravo truck makers on your first EV renditions!

[@jghall00]

I would be ok with 200 miles and 800V charging. I can only go 250 with my camper in my Expedition now. The fuel savings would be worth the range tradeoff. Also need pull through chargers.

[@ebubeawachie]

Brilliant comments but please use paragraphs and spacing 😩

[@GuyOnYouTube]

I was coming here to post this, but you beat me to it. Raw tow rating doesn’t really mean much on its own, it’s important to also consider payload capacity. I was surprised by how low the Rivian payload capacity was. With 4 American sized adults, you’re talking about ~ 300 extra pounds for their bags and luggage. Not much of an adventure if you ask me. In the lighting, you could actually have 4 people and their luggage / belongings and have enough payload to spare to actually bring adventure with you. I was also impressed by how close the 2 vehicles were efficiency wise, especially considering this was the platinum. I’d think the lariat extended range would be about on par, and the standard range models be potentially even better efficiency wise which is seriously impressive given the vast size and capacity differences. Although, I would be curious to see how much the conserve mode in the Rivian helps out. Perhaps what surprised me the most was that when dc fact charging, that ~55 mile trip cost them almost $11 to charge. That’s more expensive than an F150 gas ecoboost on the highway that gets only 24mpg with gas at $4.50-5 / gallon! I always thought ford jumping straight to EV was a bit of an oversight. The sweet spot would really be a plug in hybrid model of the F150 or even maverick. If they could offer ~30-40 miles all electric range it would cover most people’s daily commute to give the benefit of having an EV, with none of th sacrifice of reduced range and lengthy charging times when taking longer road trips or towing. Especially when you consider the cost of dc fast charging actually seems to be more expensive per mile than conventional gasoline pickup trucks currently! 😅😂

[@kng128]

The electric utility charges for DCFC make the per kwh price of electricity more expensive than driving an ICE vehicle getting 22-24mpg or better. If charging level 2 at home the per kwh can be ~1/3 as expensive as DCFC. I can charge Level 2 at work for free. Your costs for driving an EV will vary significantly depending where you charge.

[@monono954]

As a note: you're not measuring efficiency, you're measuring economy.

[@ben3989]

Please explain further

[@JonathanHair]

Thank you! Even the OEMs get this wrong. Economy is how far you travel on a given energy, efficiency is the ratio of energy out of a system to in. They are not the same thing!

[@oblivianation9759]

@@JonathanHair that's racist and the gender fluid fenders make it confusing.

[@dominichanna6406]

@monono954 @Jonathan Hair this can technically be counted as an extension of efficiency your energy dispersed by the battery compared to how much of that energy is actually converted distance traveled as distance is a component of work and energy. It’s not exactly efficiency as it’s missing the force and time components to go with distance. But from the consumer perspective how much distance they can get/kWh is more important than kWH out/kWh in. The industry isn’t perfect but economy is not measured in thermodynamics efficiency is that’s why it’s called efficiency.

[@JonathanHair]

@@dominichanna6406 distance is not a measure of energy. So it's the wrong term.

[@barryhomes1]

I was doing the math, and both truck are virtually the same. The Platinum's 22" wheels are 93% efficient compared to using the 20" tires (EPA Platinum 300 mile, v.s. Lariat smaller wheels 320 miles). If the Ford had different wheels...? Now I know you said they both are 22's but is shows you how close the two vehicle are. That is amazing considering the size of the Ford.

[@jm100368]

That's absolutely incredible! You got both chargers to work first and second time! Its a miracle!

[@Trades46]

The Rivian is smaller so more efficient is practically a given. The fact the Ford is so close despite being far larger speaks volume how well that Lightning is engineered.

[@masonverbridge3417]

Conserve mode in the Rivian is made for road trips. With that on, the rivian would’ve crushed the lightning. I get trying to make the test conditions similar, but if you’re testing range I’d prefer to see the Rivian used in the mode that’s designed for maximum range.

[@roycehoward2152]

What I took away from this test is that never charge at a fast charger if you can help it. They’re close to gas prices.

[@mike60521x]

I noticed that as well - basically $5 per 27 miles traveled - and you have to wait 1/2 hour to charge for every 58 miles traveled - I would definitely consider the F150 over the higher priced rivian

[@GuyOnYouTube]

Yeah man, I was shocked by that too. What I took away from this test is that EV pickup trucks make relatively little sense. I think I’m going to wait for a plug in hybrid pickup truck. Being able to go 30-40 miles all electric covers my daily commute and provides the cost savings of an EV, with none of the downsides when taking road trips or towing as you’re able to refuel full range in 2-3 minutes vs nearly an hour dc fast charging, and actually can do it cheaper if it gets at or over 25mpg, even with gas at $5/gallon! Makes me question why anyone would get an EV unless they drive well over 40 miles per day?

[@jdjames997]

@@GuyOnKZbin Your comment sums up the EV truck options today 100%, it simply doesn’t make sense to buy one. I’ve gotten into heated arguments with people who are clueless, about how driving an EV truck for its intended purpose makes no sense, especially if your towing. A hybrid truck or even trucks like the gas Chevy Silverado that shut down 4 cylinders while on the highway makes sense, as you mention. Cudo’s to you for stating reality, as I actually had a guy say that people drive what they want to drive, whether it makes sense or not. Ok fine, it’s America, free choice and all, but just because car company’s make something doesn’t mean it makes sense to own one. A Tesla Model S Plaid is one of the fastest production cars ever made, but if you don’t drive crazy fast, it still is a very efficient car, behind the Model 3 and Model Y. In the Ford, there is no “conserve” or more efficient option, and this represents the mentality that a lot of legacy car makers have, ‘if we make an EV truck, they’ll buy it”….regardless of how efficient it is, because we just won’t talk about the actual power usage per mile….

[@MrVegasoul]

It’s quite interesting result. I expected big difference in fuel efficiency because the size of 150 is much bigger than Rivian. I think the efficiency of power train such as inverter, motor and battery seems has better efficiency. I like the features like big frunk and 11 electricity outlets which are the key attractiveness of F150.

[@Josh-my1hm]

fuel....lol

[@jeffreyharvey8111]

If I was buying a truck today I would definitely buy the F 150 simply because it is based a on a tried and true F 150 platform and the manufacturing history and experience that Ford or any of the major vehicle manufacturers has in producing them gives me more assurance of available service and supply of parts for the long haul plus their many service locations. Who knows if Rivian as a brand will survive in the long run. You have to look at all aspects of the ownership experience.

[@RichardJoashTan]

And I am glad that I will buy a fully loaded F150 Lightning Platinum anyway.

[@rhydynamic8306]

You’ve been saying that for more than a year now. Where is your Mach E?

[@testing12357]

Day one res holders of both r1s and r1t. Delays delays delays. If lightning res comes first, that's what I'll get.

[@gbpg2016]

Kyle knows a guy that can get you by next week. Just tell him you're a youtuber.

[@testing12357]

@@gbpg2016 LMAO

[@tombache3426]

Thank you for doing these reviews. Something most of use would really like to know is: How much did the charge cost, how long it took, how far did you go. It is still about time and money. I am not hanging around the charging station for hours when traveling. I gather now from watching reviews, you don’t plan to charge to 100% unless you are home and charge over night. So, currently you have to plan to hop from charger to charger, sort of like a vehicle with really bad fuel economy( I had a Mustang like that, pass everything except a gas station). Drive from NYC to LA and tell me about that. Otherwise, all of these are still local commuter vehicles.

[@mattsun9765]

It showed $10.56 (I think-- would have to go back and look) on the charger the Lightning was plugged into.

[@stockacts6316]

Lucid for the win with 900v and 750v architecture on the Air.

[@Pinz314]

Charging losses are part of the total efficiency of the truck. You pay for the KWh dilivered from the charger not to the battery.

[@football0552]

Depends what you're after. If it's cost that's one thing, if it's range that's another.

[@Pinz314]

@@football0552 I think it's the same thing. Ice trucks are compared against each other all the time without considering the efficiency of the ice and the aero drag. It's just this much energy goes in to move the truck that much. The only thing I can think of being interesting in charging losses is if there is a difference between fast charging and slow charging.

[@4literv6]

@@Pinz314 dcfc is actually more efficient due to the conversion loses at the wall going from a.c. input from the grid to dc going into the battery itself. It can be 20% or more for lvl1 or lvl2 home charging. Vs 5-10% at dcfc mostly due to heat and requiring the battery to be within a certain temperature range when fast charging it. 👍🏻

[@football0552]

@@Pinz314 disagree. I generally don't care much about losses. They aren't usually big enough to impact charging time significantly between models, and I don't DC fast charge enough where I care about the cost different (within typical range of losses). They will also vary a lot based on temperature. But I do care about consumption within the truck for range once it is on the battery.

[@stormsj]

To me charge efficiency shouldn't be excluded in efficiency test. This is a lot to check how much time and money you spend charging.

[@maples328]

That’s a good point on charging efficiency. Most everyone just assumes 💯 rate of transfer in & out.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Thanks for doing a parallel drive. Given the size difference, the R1T better be more efficient, but this will be interesting to see.

[@dylanc9275]

I'm still 100% ford with all there service centers and the aftermarket choices

[@michaelabsher8341]

My less than 300 mile Ford Hybrid is showing some fairly serious safety issues with NO CEL so far, Yeh, I'm going to love the service center 80 miles away from a dealership that overcharge me $299 over the agreed on price...

[@dylanc9275]

@@michaelabsher8341 I'm 1500miles plus from rivian I'd pay that 300 hands down. my ford dealership is within walking distance

[@SingleSpeed427]

Did the Rivian lower itself on the freeway, or did you disable that and keep it at a normal height?

[@timgurr1876]

Thanks for the video. Interesting test. The Rivian is a nice size truck for those who don’t need a larger truck and it may be easier for parking and maneuvering in tight spaces. The only concern I have is the ability to Rivian to survive in the long run. Hopefully, they will survive. As of now, I would probably choose the F150 because of Ford’s longevity in the truck market.

[@schlotdoglaser]

thanks for a great and very fair and informative comparison. We just configured our R1T and will have it in a few months at the latest. I belong to a FB group and there was talk about "Lightning is better than the Rivian".....blah blah. I posted this video as an unbiased review......thanks!

[@brandenflasch]

Definitely agree that high 400V architecture is a sweet spot.

[@PLATINUM2U]

F-350 owner here. Can't wait til the CT comes to market 🤤🤤

[@ohger1]

Ford was careful to style the Lightning like the standard F150 that Americans are comfortable with and love, and it was a good decision and the way I would have gone if it were my call. I think as EVs become the norm, you may see the legacy makers style the trucks to be more aerodynamic. For this large brick Ford to get a near statistical tie to the Rivian is amazing.

[@michaelabsher8341]

Drop the temp down to say 45 degrees and the Ford will fall far behind the Rivian due to Ford choosing to use very old and not efficient heating methods... The reviewers didn't mention this once and chose to do this test at 74 degrees...meaning no heat came on during this drive. And why not turn the built in ability to have more range on the Rivian? If Rivian was smart they would have it do it on its own during highway driving.

[@MikeO-dr7hn]

@@michaelabsher8341 Knowing Kyle they will re-test at lower temp at some point; fall comes fairly early in Colorado so it shouldn't be too long before he can grab a cool day.

[@rabidsquirrel22ben]

@@michaelabsher8341 The R1T doesn't have a heat pump either if that is what you're alluding to. They both use a resistive heater.

[@4literv6]

Then why are over 80% of all the existing 200k+reservations for the lightning coming from none Ford or f series owner's? Seems the lightning isn't to popular with current Ford owner's and instead it is attracting more business to ford. Coming from people who just want a full size ev truck which the lightning happens to be. 🤔

[@budhicks101]

There is literally a gas fired turbine across the street from where you are charging at the beginning of your video. You can see it over your shoulder dumping smoke into the air. You can see it start up at 3:17.

[@danielhonas334]

I assumed they were incinerating bodies 😂. Glad I'm not the only one that saw it.

[@budhicks101]

@@danielhonas334 LOL

[@SolveFixBuild]

Great stuff. I think people are cross shopping these - I didn’t think the Rivian could lay a sheet of plywood flat but it can. They are similar in price and nearly the same in function. The Rivian is more “truck” than a Honda Ridgeline, and maybe more than a Ford Ranger, I’d argue.

[@joshmatlock1020]

I'd get the Rivian because I don't need a truck and the Rivian is more like a car in truck form. I also like the minimal qualities of the interior...

[@faywhite7886]

So you want the rivian suv

[@dylanc9275]

Will you guys do efficiency test on tonneau cover vs none

[@CRVgarage]

Thanks a lot guys...you the best!! I think for a general customer just going by the efficiency numbers on the dash is enough to make a decision. 0.2 mi/kwh difference is completely normal since Ford Lightning is heavier than the R1T.

[@JDTaylor]

I agree with the last comment. Would be curious how much more efficient the Rivian has with the tonneau cover closed and in Conserve Mode. I also find my R1T I’m Conserve Mode impressive. I use conserve whenever I go on a long trip.

[@misplacedidentity1036]

9:18 that "one time" feature is nice.

[@Fechual]

Great video. However not sure we can give the Lightning props for "similar" efficiency The Rivian has 4 motors vs 2 and a boat load more power and torque,

[@fumpercheezy]

That's not how it works. The Rivian in theory should be MORE efficient with 4 motors vs 2 motors, as they can run more optimally to the path of least resistance to the ground. Also rated power and torque numbers are just what is available, not what is actively being used. That holds true for ICE and electric motors.

[@Fechual]

@@fumpercheezy Interesting. So higher output in torque and horsepower is irrelevant due to having 4 motors? Either way common sense and logic would desire more power, performance, capability all with efficiency 😎

[@heathwirt8919]

@@fumpercheezy Actually more motors is more losses.

[@haroldmichael3492]

Why cant kyle compare a R1T two motor to a two motor F150 lightning? Similar battery packs etc. Seems it would be a better comparison. Im tired of these reviews that only compare top of the line vehicle packages. Kyle even admits in his beginning review this isnt a fair comparison of vehicles. I think less quantity and more quality information is a better approach to these reviews for serious consumers. My opinion!

[@Fechual]

@@haroldmichael3492 They simply don’t produce the 2 motor variant yet.

[@jaywo4501]

Nice video. Both impressive. Drove them both and the Rivian just feels and drives so much nicer and faster. I wonder how much more efficient it would be then the Ford in the conserve mode running only 2 motors.

[@craig8638]

Who else is just excited that there are two electric trucks in production to compare?

[@4literv6]

I am really enjoying all the different youtubers content on the r1t&lightning. Cant wait for the new everado and hopefully the cybertruck to join the fray next year. Imagine a r1t quad motor vs hummev tri motor vs everado rst vs cybertruck quad motor plaid test. There is also the upcoming atlis xt ev truck made in America, the new ram ev truck, and maybe Ford will offer a hotter lightning r before the next gen ground up ev lightning arrives around 2025. Or even a single cab short bed version with sticky st tires as a throwback to the og lightning. 😎👍🏻

[@craig8638]

@@4literv6 Did you GM Evalanche? 😁

[@4literv6]

@@craig8638 i nicknamed it the Everado because it's an ev Silverado but yeah it looks like the avalanche from certain angles just updated a bit. 😀

[@lambdaprog]

Just found your channel. You really have a gift for unscripted narration.

[@stanfordbanks3399]

Great testing work out, one Criticism It's best to say what you like or dislike after the test has been completed . In some cases some people will walk away from the testing based on your impressions of either one before the test has been made. 😊

[@grantlauzon5237]

My dad has a newer F150. Its analog speedometer is off but it’s digital one is accurate. I think the digital speedo calibrated itself with the GPS.

[@patmason7276]

The lightning is real good at regen especially when towing on hills. The more you drive the lightning more efficient it will get. Learns your habits.

[@gbpg2016]

How does it get more efficient?

[@wjstewdog]

Very curious for a towing review on the trucks. As most landscape trailers are around 16 ft and boat trailers 28 feet. How can you pull up to a charger with all that length ? Won't you block the parking lot ?

[@bradleyanderson4315]

It's called a Diverging Diamond. My former office built one back in 2015.

[@martinoshinsky5713]

Awesome review with two great products. One true and tested and one coming to life with lots of opportunities.

[@GeeDeeBird]

Ford is larger, has a larger payload, more towing, but gets very similar efficiency. I think that makes it the winner.

[@ezmn9663]

For me too big, harder to park, bed empty 90% of the time, less range, less offroad performance, and less on-road performance...lol. Different use cases for everyone ;)

[@GregHassler]

Same conversation as Model 3 vs Y. Model Y: bigger, not too much more expensive Model 3: more efficient, faster, faster charging, cheaper To each their own.

[@GeeDeeBird]

@@WinnersMind67 Bite me. Too big for some is just right for others. I'm every bit as entitled to my opinion as either of you.

[@GeeDeeBird]

@@GregHassler I agree. It's all about individual choices.

[@GeeDeeBird]

@@ezmn9663 Sorry, but I disagree with several things you say. Parking is automatic. The bed is only empty until you need to haul something... Kind of like the back seat or the trunk. Range is pretty close to dead even on paper. Finally, your assumptions about on road performance, off road performance and load capabilities are just that... assumptions. Like other attributes such as reliability, ride comfort, company stability and cabin noise, they must be determined over time in the real world. Until there are enough units on the ground over a long enough time to show otherwise, I'm sticking with my opinion. You are, of course, welcome to do the same.

[@pstoneking3418]

You can set your screen to calm screen to see SOC & miles to empty with speedometer.

[@platypus5560]

I love the lightning the quality in general is top notch

[@ldmcnutt]

For anyone that hasn’t had this epiphany, a gallon of gas will do the work of about 10 kwh of electricity. If this was a gas F150, it would have been 19 mpg. The Rivian would be 21 mpg. The “gas tank” on both is about 13 gallons (130 kwh). My Tesla model S gets 33 miles from 10 kwh electricity at 80 mph, which would be like a BMW 5 series getting 33 mpg at 80 mph. Likewise. When I charge at home in SoCal, I pay 22 cents per kWh of electricity at night, which is like $2.20 per gallon for gas. Mind blown, right? Makes for easy math.

[@trullmann]

interesting explanation, thank you

[@iank516]

And at my house in Kansas.. I pay 7.5 cents per KWh at night!! Sooooooo cheap to drive electric.

[@trullmann]

Dude I really appreciate your videos as always, I feel like you are NOT trying to sell me anything like other channels can when it comes to EVs. Thank you.

[@longIslandEV]

The way I measure efficiency in my model 3 is using the miles driven (GPS verify accurate) and the amount of charge delivered by my evse. I have seen the efficiency change based on ambient temperature

[@howlers8]

and I imagine it's much much worse in cold temps. I know another channel found that with the Mach E up in canada. ate more energy and took longer to charge in 'winter' months. which is like 6-8 months out of the year. they were still getting cold weather and heavy snow fall in april

[@JohnSmith-ug5ci]

You asked why speedometers cannot be calibrated from the factory. They are, at least as close as possible at a certain speed, but because of pi not being a constant and tire diameter changing as temperatures and speed/centrifugal force, they will be off differing amounts at different speed. Also, one brand of tire will not always be the same exact diameter as another even though they are branded the same size. The only way they could be more closely accurate is for them to run the speedometer off of GPS. If you want a more accurate system they do make aftermarket GPS dash mounted speedometers. However keep in mind that even GPS is not perfect.

[@dansanger5340]

Optical computer mice measure speed by taking pictures of the surface and figuring out how far it moved between pictures. I'm not sure why they don't do that with car speedometers.

[@heathwirt8919]

For the sake of this test it would have been more accurate to use the GPS data (speed & range) and the KWH charge required to return the charge to the original percentage as the factors for calculating the efficiency (miles per KWH).

[@simonthebroken9691]

Great test. Thanks. Looking forward to the towing comparisons the most. Thank you soo much for the work you guys do.

[@10p6]

Interesting experiment. Driving skills and use of signals....

[@johndavis7112]

Really just splitting hairs, 5 or 10 miles difference but the conserve mode would crush the f150 overall in a 200+ mile test. Now lets tow something 6x12 box trailer, with 5000 pounds v nose and see how they do?

[@jbell2018]

Y’all should start doing efficiency testing on the AC chargers of EVs

[@uob5]

One thought, shouldn‘t charging losses not be part of the consumtion rate? At the end I habe to wait and to pay for it.

[@mowcowbell]

Didn't realize the Rivian was that small... looks like it is about the size of the current Honda Ridgeline. Kinda ironic 2 EV's charging, while in the background some building is spewing a noxious cloud of hydrocarbons.

[@joeyg.2953]

What do think happens when the electricity is made to charge these "clean" vehicles?! 😂

[@mowcowbell]

@@joeyg.2953 In my state, 33% of the grid power comes from wind farms.

[@freedomliberty7611]

@@mowcowbell so that's 67 % fossil fuels?

[@mowcowbell]

@@freedomliberty7611 Which is still way less pollution that thousands of ICE vehicles driving around. Even a single coal power plant has a smaller carbon footprint than thousands of ICE vehicles.

[@eb1888.]

What is the logic behind not using the tonneau cover or Conserve mode when they're available. You have the vehicle. Run it both ways for the information. We would want to know the difference.

[@jm100368]

only so many hours in a day

[@eb1888.]

@@jm100368 Then run each vehicle at its best possible settings. That's the honest comparison.

[@jm100368]

@@eb1888. I’m curious if you set the Rivian in conserve mode if it stays there for the next drive.

[@eb1888.]

@@jm100368 Possibly a setting to save your settings. Your choice.

[@LL-qm3sl]

Love your videos, the only major improvement I can think of is cleaning the camera lenses. Sometimes they are just rly dirty, didn't think it would make a difference until I cleaned them myself before taking pictures/ videos!!

[@micahnichols155]

Let me just say, the conditions today are absolutely perfect, just a gorgeous day, can’t imagine better conditions, what a fantastic… Nice job guys, appreciate the comparison!

[@ssu7653]

28:00 the time is not "charging" its "parking", make sense for it to be slightly longer than your timed charging ;)

[@HablaCarnage63]

I get between 3 and 4 miles per kWh in my Volt. But I love the idea of truck at a bit more than half the efficiency.

[@sunrisetacticalgear2676]

How much $money$ did it cost for each truck at the charger at the end of the trip?? Also how many miles did you go on that trip??

[@davidandrew6357]

In this test, the Rivian was slightly more efficient, but that was without using some of the efficiency options available on the Rivian, and not on the F-150. But I have also heard that the Rivian has a greater Vampire load problem, when parked. I would like to see some testing on that.

[@chaleowin7732]

The Lightning is the everyman's everyday truck? My issue with the Lightning is I can't by base vehicles...the Lightning would cost me at least 80k so it may as well be made out of unobtanium.

[@ohger1]

Agree, but to be fair, most pickups are north of 60K these days. I can afford to write a check tomorrow for any new car on the market, but won't. Cars are a big waste of money. I always buy my cars 1-2 years old with 15K or less miles. Let someone else take the hit. The 25K or more I save is invested and making money, not losing money. Also, as more EV pickups hit the market and as this still brand new technology evolves, there will be production efficiencies that will lower costs. First ones in always pay more. I bought my Tesla S two years old (before used cars went nuts) and saved a lot of money.

[@smartelectriccar]

A king ranch hybrid is that much too. Trucks are pricey. Period.

[@gbpg2016]

@@ohger1 what investments are making you money this year?

[@ohger1]

@@gbpg2016 Gold. I sold off most of my stocks not in a fund about three months ago and bought gold. I figure the bottom is about 9-12 months away, and I'll start buying heavily during the recession.

[@GregHassler]

@@ohger1 that used to be a good theory, but my 2.5 year old Model 3 with 70,000 miles is currently worth more than I paid for it.

[@joshmatlock1020]

If y'all ever want a member of OOS in Texas I'd love to apply and help add content from my part of the world. I love EVs and y'all are great.

[@jasonmcquinn6601]

Love the saying on the fast chargers......Kum & go... Not sure they thought about that before using it.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

About the speedo same in Air planes all of them and it's called indcated air speed which you have to adjust for.

[@cavudaz1]

You can show state of charge on Rivian. Hit the charge icon.

[@robertobeltramelli4138]

Your Subscriber count is growing by leaps and bounds!

[@armoryindustrial7884]

I was in a truck assembly plant where the line was down. Two electric forklift drivers had a game where they backed their lifts up to each other and would then floor the accelerators. The first lift to smoke would lose! Everyone around them rooted for one or the other, and laughed when the loser smoked. Just a suggestion.

[@brianrice6993]

This a nice size comparison I’ve been looking for.

[@Paul-cj1wb]

800 volts is actually cheaper to build (once all the components have been converted) simply because you need less material, especially copper. It's part of the reason why all manufacturers are switching to 800 volts architecture or higher. So not only is it more efficient with much faster charging, but it's easier on the batteries since you need less amperage, and it's cheaper to manufacture.

[@GregHassler]

Tesla says the material cost difference is as little as $50, but the engineering lift is significant. Also the PACK voltage makes literally no difference to the CELLS.

[@Paul-cj1wb]

​@@GregHassler I believe that Elon said something to that effect some 2 years ago. Although I though he said something like "a hundred bucks". But you have to remember that Elon is a showman and salesman, as well as very smart. The reason he said that at the time is because 800 volts architecture is very difficult to achieve with their current cylindrical cells, and it's very hard on the cells. That's because they have one single narrow tab at one end of a long strip and another at the other. That's a very long way for the ions to travel. The best way to solve that while remaining cylindrical is to have multiple tabs, hence the new 4680 cells with all those tabs. You notice that just about all current 800 volts systems use either pouch or modular cells. So he did not want to admit to that. It's bad for his brand. As far as the cost, with higher voltage comes lower amperage, and hence, thinner copper wires. That's why those high tension wires on power lines are not a hundred feet thick. Nikola Tesla solved that over a century ago by stepping up the voltage to extremely high levels so they could travel long distances over thin wires, then stepped them back down at the other end. Have you any idea how many copper wires and conductors are on an EV? Especially large ones like trucks or SUVs? So not only does is it make them cheaper with more efficient voltage, but also lighter, which makes them even more efficient. And the engineering lift is a one time deal. After that, the presses follow that model. As far the voltage on a cell, no. It does not make a difference. And if an EV would only need one cylindrical cell, or two, or three then your point is true. However, it uses many thousand of cylindrical cells. So it makes a huge difference at the pack level.

[@ZzHasbrozZ]

Now we need an R1T vs R1S. I also remember the platinum with a large pack loses 20 miles over the lariat large pack version. So the lariat might match the R1T. TFL dash shows 2.0 kw per mile on their road trip.

[@ericroe]

It would have been better if they compared the Lariat ER vs the Rivian. The Platinum only has a 300 mile EPA vs the Rivian's 314. The Lariat ER (and XLT) have a 320 mile EPA Range. I know it's the vehicles that they had, but just going by EPA of course the Rivian would win.

[@ibrahimrenewarner4333]

Kyle, please make a video on how to handle the battery of an EV. Thanks.

[@ZmannR2]

Do those chargers seriously say “Kum & Go”??? Lmao!!!

[@Xyler94]

Kum & Go is a gas station chain in the US... Why do people not take 5 extra seconds on the naming, I get the idea, Come and Go... but come on, x3

[@cbenson513]

Five minute diff for 20% charge potentially means a decent chunk of extra time if you're towing distances and need to do a long charge session to near 100%. I agree though, they're really trucks for different purposes.

[@brysonfry9612]

I don’t think on a 15-80% that the Rivian would charge 15 minutes faster, I think thermal management would allow the Lightning to “catch up” and those 15-80% DCFC sessions would be within a few minutes of each other \

[@cbenson513]

@@brysonfry9612 Could be, but if they do test longer charges, I'd like to see to 90+ as that is something you'd want when towing distances.

[@ProfessorHamer]

The rivian has 4 motors versus 2 on f150, and weren’t running in conserve mode. Normally you do your efficiency tests with the eco mode enabled, so you didn’t follow your standard here.

[@JaredAho]

Best videos in the business! Doing the deep dives for those of us waiting for deliveries! Much appreciated, Kyle and Jordan

[@Mkg254]

Love to see an efficiency comparison on the lighting with and without a tonneau cover

[@christopherhughes7970]

The reason we went with the F150 is: The aftermarket world for F150 will always be there. Want a bed cap, bed cover, rubber floor mats, no problem there’s hundreds of options The longevity. Will Rivian be around in 10 years? Who knows. Ford isn’t going anywhere. Access to service. There’s like 25 ford dealerships within 30 minutes of my house if we have an issue. I’m sure we would have been happy with either but those things I mentioned give us piece of mind buying the lightning. We still have a ICE F150 for towing and other things the electric aren’t going to be capable of for awhile.

[@TheNpsurfbum678]

Love the vids. You’re killing it. Ordered both. Rivian is estimating mid-late 2023 (Ordered in 9/9/21) for R1T Large Battery. I think the F150 will be quicker. May drive it for a year, sell it, and then make room for the Rivian. I did test drive the Rivian. It was a blast. Only bummer was I could barely fit a 6’1 surfboard diagonally :/ in the truck bed. Maybe i should start boogie boarding.

[@garytompkins3761]

Went to Cheyenne, had no wind.....Should have brought a lottery ticket!

[@verttikoo2052]

Wheel pressure checked?

[@smartroadtrip]

Biggest takeaway from all these tests is that vehicle speedometers are wrong.

[@wjgoh653]

in the end, all of our speculation and mathematical gymnastics aside, most men who work using their truck in the course of their daily living will likely choose the f-150 for it's towing and hauling capacity and will also desire a truck that looks like a truck and not a weekend planter hauler. As an engineer I find it's easy to get all wound up on the numbes and the graphics charts, however, the only truck contractors, fishermen, construction workers etc. want is one that doesnt look like GOOGLE employee drives. Lovethe Rivian, but for all intents and purposes, it still looks like the weekend warrior toy that so many buy hoping to regain some semblance of manhood in their vehicle.For all the flaws, FMC will likely strike a deal with tesla when the new LFP battery becomes available. Or they will go to panasonic for something similar. In all the talk, TESLA has done all the groundwork but chose to build a truck that is more suited for a mars mission than practicality.

[@b2dmastersniper]

Geez someone has a stick up their butt.

[@jeffreywong6842]

Awesome job! I'm surprised, very similar efficiency with my 2021 X5 PHEV.