Is Richard Burns Rally Overrated?

[@seebarry4068]

RBR is a labour of love at this point. The multiplayer is made by fans for fans.

[@zulik9831]

nope, it isnt at this point, it has been since ngp 1 phisics

[@NickGreiner1988]

The original game was released in 2004 according to wikipedia. You could say that the original game was a labour of love, you could also say that the RSF mod and frankly, any other mod that has ever been made for this game since it was released have all been a labour of love, whether you thought the original was good as it was, or whether you thought any particular mod was good, they have all been a labour of love. People today think that Richard burns rally is the RSF mod because that's the easiest way to get the game (with the RSF mod already included), but it doesn't give you the option to play the vanilla game if you acquire it via the installation of RSF. It would pay more respect to the original game developers and the RSF mod devs separately by making an evaluation by starting "RBR with the RSF mod is good because X" Sorry it just ticks me off a little because i have played this game for so long, to me, RBR and the RSF/NGP mod are not one and the same. The game is good and the mod is a good addition but your preference is subjective.

[@mototurystyka]

Richard Burns' rally is free. This is worth keeping in mind. In addition, the physics of the driving and the fact that people are making new special stages around the world for free is something special.

[@DarkSpirit78]

Where i can get Richard Burn's Rally? My platform is PC.

[@Tairaud]

@@DarkSpirit78 abandonware

[@thewafen763]

@@Tairaud No no and no

[@rabmccudden683]

She tells u in the video at around 2.20.

[@CoreyKearney]

It's not free, it's abandonware. The only way to get it is to pirate it. At the end of the day it doesn't matter, the right's holder isn't enforcing their copyright. But they could, and that would kill the scene in a heartbeat. So it's an important distinction.

[@trev7919]

Used to think DR2 and WRC are my favourite rally games but after putting quite a lot of time into RBR lately i havent gone back to the other two games. The level of realism like the connection to the road and feeling what the car is doing is really enjoyable. Not to mention in RBR there is no "artifical force" that keeps you on the road while driving. One little mistake and you pretty much off into the trees. Honestly it was kinda frustrating playing RBR at first coming from DR2 and WRC Games where i was feeling like a pro driver because i couldn't drive a stage without crashing. Id say RBR made me understand how the different cars behave under certain circumstances and improved my car control a lot.

[@OneRedKraken]

There is not a force preventing you from going off the stage in DR2.0 or WRCG. The handling and amount of grip you can get out of the car is definitely disproportional compared to RBR. But you can send your car deep into the scenery in both those games if you push it too far. That being said. Its true that oversteer in DR2.0 and WRCG cant even come close to feeling as dangerous as it does in RBR. Counter steering and throttle control is everything in terms of being able to maintain or recover from a power drift.

[@marvelwood5282]

Correct! DR2 and WRC - have arcade physics.

[@joeroganpodfantasy42]

If you didn't play those 2 other games you would find RBR frustrating to play . The only difference is that it's harder that's why people enjoy it .

[@Sveakungen]

RBR 4 EVER!🤩 A game from 2004 that still is very relevant even without modded content!

[@ihmesieni3801]

Good points, out of the box it's definitely not a super casual and easy to jump in experience like DR2.0 and WRC games can be, but once it's configured it is great. The slidy physics you experience in DR2.0 tarmac also unrealistically exist in the other surfaces in both WRCG and DR2.0 games, it can just be harder to notice. RBR takes way more comprehensive approach to physics that isn't designed to be user friendly but simulation. As an example for this, a fast tarmac driving technique is consistent between RBR and other sim titles, but unrealistic fast driving styles learned from WRCG and DR2.0 need to be unlearned when switching to other sim titles. However, people still like them because they are forgiving and makes them feel fast.

[@YQVN35]

Thank You

[@gui2peg]

really hard to "unlearn" what i have learned in my 100+ hours of dr2

[@johnnymclaneutah]

dr2.0 is not easy to jump to because the default car setups are horrible and you have to unlock to the ability to do car setups for every car.. the cars are very wonky.

[@marvelwood5282]

After DR2 or WRC people will just be able to drive in these games. After RBR people will be able to drive a real car.

[@blairwalton4456]

I honestly think people are still in the mindset of harder = more realistic coming from someone who has spent 20+ years involved with real life rallying (driving and co driving) RBR has it's really good points and it's bad points the one that sticks out the most to me is the braking and how easy it is to lock the brakes and then trying to get the car back under control. It isn't like that IRL. Still think RBR is the top rally sim but the other 2 have there really good points as well for me to list the 3 of them it would go 1st=RBR 2nd=WRC 3rd=DR2.0 there is just something I don't gel with in DR 2.0

[@StormeTheGates]

I agree, the way you can chuck a car into a corner and make it stick in DR2 is wildly unrealistic in my opinion.

[@MetallvmPT]

Thats because default setups, have way too much brake pressure... Reduce the brake pressure problem solved.

[@bett431]

For me its DR2.0s lack of suspension that doenst gel with me and some weird grip related aspects, also a lack of precision in high speeds. But yes, this hard = realistic thing is what I keep seeing all the time and it just isnt true like a lot of people believe it.

[@wiegraf9009]

RBR/RSF has its flaws but it's sad no one is trying to best it these days when we have vastly better CPUs that could do much more sophisticated physics simulations.

[@gulererd]

Having played the original RBR, and having recently started playing the RallySimFans version I feel that the modded version is easier to play compared to the original. It is much harder to get sliding around the corners in the original (RBR has training just for that), the modded version is closer to Dirt Rally in that sense where you can turn the wheel and the car starts sliding into the corner. Additionally, I remember rolling the car much more in the original RBR when hitting hedges and less in the modded version (I'm definitely not a better driver now compared to before). So, in summary the original RBR was less forgiving.

[@shortcat]

try to play the original on keyboard or controller and with the chase camera. it was released on consoles too after all. absolutely not a hard game to control, you can spin around like a tank at *your* will

Found this to be true too.

[@KadaverKomplex]

Vanilla physics were both flawed in execution and incomplete, with entire parameters like toe/camber having zero effect, due to development crunch

[@TeamHorneyRacing]

I struggle with playing rally sims, I die a lot and get frustrated, but I do enjoy watching streamers like Jimmy and Emily playing them. Quality vid yet again team Overtake, keep em coming.

[@smohonk]

Who's Emily?

[@TeamHorneyRacing]

@@smohonk Emily who is presenting this video. Emree on twitch.

[@utkarshchaurasia2233]

It's a terrible clicbait video. She thinks rbr doesn't have the best physics

[@thomaswf7284]

@@smohonk Scroll up, her.

[@smohonk]

@@thomaswf7284 oh

[@lukasmorski-zmij8030]

NOTICE! for the new comers ,please try different wheel rotation setups(from 240 to 900) ,it lots depends what is the steering lock in car setup .I agree that you need some research but every good sim needs it . Also very important to change setups in wheel software for RBR ,you should make special profile just for RBR .This can make a huge difference . RBR is like assetto corsa in rally world .But assetto corsa easier to set up .

[@gambof84]

I love to play Dirt and WRC they are so fun, but RBR is another level, for realism and immersion. With RBR, some car and software settings, you not play, you drive ❤

[@cdv1025]

I have been playing Rally and WRC games since 90’s and I enjoyed all, but Colin’s ones have a special place on my heart! And just for complement the WRC series on PS2 were very good too🌟🌟🌟

[@autozone5695]

I’m glad the comments know what’s up. RBR is simply the best rally sim ever, period.

[@StreetComp]

I still have my original RBR box with discs :) I spent hundreds of hours with it back in 2004 using a Microsoft Sidewinder FF wheel and pedals so obviously it’s going to be a different xp in 2023 but interesting to hear a comparison of RBR mod and current rally games. WRCG best feature is the amazing stage design and the driving physics are fine, I mean how many of you have actually driven an AWD car on dirt or at the limits on tarmac? I actually own a 420whp Evo8 that I’ve used in rallycross and I can tell you WRCG does fine in simulating gravel and tarmac, don’t know bout snow at high speed though. The most important thing I’ve found over so many years is does the game car react similarly in instinctual pedal and steering movement, it’s not easy to describe but I know it when I feel it that a game car is behaving properly enough and its very obvious to me when it’s not. WRCG and Dirt are fine and I’d bet anyone who has spent hundreds of hours in either could get in the real version of game car and it would feel comfortably similar and in an open field with cones your hours in game would help you be a better driver, but it’s 100% different on a stage rally event when your life/expensive investment is on the line - it changes totally how you drive from the insane driving I see in games. Anyway go try it for yourself!

[@leadlefthand]

The sad reality is that Richard Burns Rally the game has gone on and built a fan base that Richard Burns didn't quite have in his career having gone head to head with the likes of Colin McRae, Tommi Makinen, Carlos Sainz, and then by 2003, Sebastian Loeb who eventually became generally regarded as the GOAT. So he was overshadowed while he was racing. But after he died and the game carrying his name became more and more popular, he didn't see just how much he became appreciated by fans.

[@JurekBogdanowicz]

want a GAME? go for WRC/DR. want a experience? go for RBR

[@jonnmostovoy2406]

I've been rewatching my top-200 run in DR2.0 in Poland and I was shocked at how little steering input I was giving and how smooth the input was on gravel. If you watch Janne's maximum attack videos and the onboards of WRC drivers you'll see how similar the inputs are to RBR. Also, Nikolay Gryazin straight up practices stages in RBR. The only drawback of RBR compared to its only real competitor, BeamNG (!) is that RBR doesn't simulate car mechanics yet. As far as physics is concerned, even looking at it formally, from the standpoint of comparing inputs, it's head and shoulders ahead of the competition.

[@Your-Local-RX-Guy]

Wellll except one tiny thing. There is literally no AI. If the game has any form of Rallycross than it's an instant buy from me, but until then I'll stick with Dirt Rally 2, Rallisport Challenge, and BeamNG obviously.

[@bett431]

All the elitism in the Rally Gaming community is made way worse by the people confusing their previous rally gaming experiences with "Whats right" or "realistic". Dirt, RBR and WRC all dont show their full potential unless you start understanding them and getting proper car setups and input device setups.

[@freakycat1795]

NOTICED! The RBR we are talking about is the one with NGP mod. There are some real drifting and rally drivers gave the feedbacks about RBR with NGP mod, rated the most realistic sim, even better than AC on tarmac, NGP is the must-install mod if you want to play RBR,

[@adriankoch964]

Only the vanilla one was reviewed here? Strange choice.

[@LeMamour]

I respect the dedication of the fans of RBR, i tried it a little and will be back to it. But i really love Wrc generations and DR 2.0

[@conceptualmessiah01]

How can you love Generations? Tell me! I want to love it too but the physics are awful.

[@hauntedsink]

@@conceptualmessiah01 I don't understand how they got generations so wrong. Oof.

[@conceptualmessiah01]

@@hauntedsink me neither. I have WRC 9 and the physics are so satisfying. Generations has better suspension but the rest is worst!

[@bett431]

Let me guess you guys dont fiddle with the car setups in WRC Generations?

[@hauntedsink]

@@bett431 it is none of your business what i fiddle with

[@ramiromartha7267]

How i see it: DR2.0: good on dirt and snow/ice roads, really weird on tarmac WRC games (i bought 10 and i kinda regret it) good on tarmac, feels weird off road RBR with Rallysimfans package: Kinda a hussle to get it set up. But once you got it right it just feels so good. Every game has its pros and cons but if you prefer gameplay/physics over grapics rbr is the way to go. On the other hand, dr2.0 on vr is just amazing on its own

[@fishblade2]

RBR has been my favorite for the longest mostly because with simucube 2.0 it works immediately and with NPG it has some of the best physics being sent back to my wheel. Will eventually try the other games for sure, but for now I love RBR.

[@lukebraddford3287]

Are you using a certain truedrive online profile or used your own?

[@samdajellybeenie14]

@@lukebraddford3287 I’m not OP, but I found one on the Simucube forums from a few years ago. No idea if it’s realistic but it feels nice.

[@kringelsworkshop]

SRM and my trailers are in this video! I am so F***ing hyped

[@Prekek]

you deserve it

[@AidanMillward]

The vanilla co driver is using a simplified version of the pace notes that Burns and Reid used in real life. Which can be weird if you’re used to number call outs which is what is the “standard”, even though there is no standard so to speak.

[@Santidelaro]

You'd be surprised how much our pacenotes shrank as our cars became faster and our experience greater. I remember my first rally. I seriously could write you a plane of the whole stage just with how detailed our notes were. Nowadays... If the driver sees... There's no need to write it down. It became much more an exercise of indicating the right moment to open or close the wheel more than throwing numbers around. :) So yep, the pacenotes are weird, but not really bad. At the end notes are a dialect that driver and codriver have to understand. Nothing else.

[@erickrzelj6868]

this is easily replaced with a pacenotes mod, check for example janne lahaanens pacenotes mod where you can select different styles of callouts including numbers. Very easy to install just copy paste into a folder

[@Left-Foot-Brake]

@@Santidelaro My new Co-Driver will be using Simple/Descriptive notes like Robert Reid and EA WRC's "Simplified" pacenotes (which had better timing than the 1-6 notes). It's been faster for me.

This is really a difficult question to answer as there are underlying physics in all three titles and body dynamics including force feedback that are so different between the three. But this video does explain it well. We played RBR since 2011 or so: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j57Cg3aZmqyUqcU and it was a great title then! RBR is amazing in that it can translate so much just through wheel feel but because its so old, and polygons were limited many of the physics were translated through effects which are not the same as native physics from the environment, that you get from laser scanning a track lets say. They are more canned and repetitive and eventually your brain picks up on this. This is even more apparent when you drive with motion or new DD wheels, which tend to limit some of those effects or under represent them. In RBR with motion, the stages feel flat because they are simple poly models with textures applied. DR20 does this different and you can feel some of the surface transitions. (kzbin.info/www/bejne/naXJaGWIn9l3ras) Where RBR is better though is feeling different suspension setups, even in an old G27 wheel you can feel the different compression and rebound of the suspension. DR20 and WRC generation is a volume product that is intended for large audiences and is meant to be fun, then challenging. The physics are not perfect but good enough for most, which is the key of the software, revenue generation. Companies like BeamNG, and their rally stages are more tough, still lots of work on their DD wheel models and FFB but the fundamentals are there. They have great chassis and surface texture (lots of polys) but what they are lacking or all of these titles are lacking are dynamic surfaces (not just visual but ones that push back/resist). Being able to drive in ruts and displace dirt with the sidewall of the tire which feels different depending on how much mud/dirt/snow/sand you displace. It's a really difficult calculation or algorithm to get right. Where we are right now, I believe, is that most game devs just make relatively simple algorithms that effect lateral wheel slip, together with downforce this is believable for most. But rally relies heavily on tire dynamics, the side wall specially since we slide a lot in rally and plenty of changes in directions as compared to say a road oval course. This is where improvements can be made in all three titles, but the complexity of the algorithms to create dynamic surfaces and proper tire models and their interactions are just maybe to complicated and time consuming than is worth to implement. (expensive)... have AI dynamically generate or add to some of these detailed surfaces might help. But it would be pretty wild if DD wheels had both positional and torque sensors, providing both inputs back to the sim, and the sim providing positional and torque FFB back to the wheel. (no wheel currently has this, and most games only look at positional data from the wheel) This evolution means both the devs of the game and the manufacturers of the wheel have to talk to together and work together and this is very unlikely.

[@jendabekCZ]

What a piece of nonsense, sorry. RBR is actually the only title which doesn't use ANY FFB effects at all - all the forces come from the wheels and their contact with the surface, and this surface detail isn't limited by any amount of polygons, which is proven by various laser-scanned tracks made for RBR (check Legazpi-Gabiria 2004 for example).

@@jendabekCZ Interesting will evaluate further. Could be wrong and no need to be sorry ;-). Are all the tracks/stages laser scanned? The ones we tried were flat and provided almost no texture. We sample telemetry at 100Hz + for road texture, game dependent. Will try Legazpi-Gabiria 2004 first! Thanks for the suggestion.

[@jendabekCZ]

@ Only few new tracks, I just tried to explain that it's not about the RBR game engine / age limits, but much more about how big effort a track creator puts into his stage (and the quality of data available). RBR can handle 40km laser scanned stages without problem (we made such private tracks for a rally team, so they can practice them before the event). There are also more than 25 types of gravel surfaces in RBR, which puts another level of detail into such track (but again - depends on a modder whether he uses these properly). RBR certainly has it's limits, but not in this particular area.

​@@jendabekCZ Thanks for that. I think we are evaluating two different products then, which makes sense. Our evaluation was based on some of the standard tracks offered in the original game. And not based on some new tracks released with the added detail you mention. Also, GIGO is definitely true here and most sim-racing peripherals and accessories are at the mercy of the quality of the track and the physics engine. The last time we evaluated RBR (don't remember the track and build version) it felt flat and lacked ground detail but overall had fantastic vehicle feel. Do the 25 surfaces you mention actually change the physical mesh of the surface that the tires ride and suspension reacts to? If so how is variance accomplished or how does it interact with the laser scan if at all? What physics rate are you running at? Some games like AC and many others 'optimize' their maps with geo-fenced areas where a certain.

[@JZStudiosonline]

@ Dirt Rally had a big "selling point" of the tires building up dirt and gravel on lateral slides, though it never did dynamic displacement or anything. It probably was just an algorithm that increased resistance with speed over time. Maybe something like MudRunner would do that, but that game always feels awkward and the mud always instantly sinks in about 12"

[@RustyRussell_YT]

I know what's underrated, Art of Rally - best rally sim ever!😉

[@markmulder996]

Just the fact that other games needed 19 years to catch up says it all. RBR had no equal until the dirt rally series came along.

[@MrBanaanipommi]

i think RBR is highly underrated... WRC games physics sucks, otherwise i like it, dirt rally 2 lacks content and arcadish driving model...

[@mikas2051]

I grew up with 80:s rally so I love the default co-driver voice in RBR, even if I do sometimes play Samir mod just to entertain my wife 😂

[@SoofiGaming]

Thank you for clearing that up. So updated verdict with the new EA WRC game?

[@jaytoppo1670]

what's good to see is that those who really like rallying and have the means to simulate it with rigs and all the bling, they always end up with RBR over all the other newer titles, say's a lot for this very near 20year old title (November 2003).

[@sshoveitt]

If you expect a sim title from Codemasters you are bond to wait forever. Their games are fun but they just don't have a single proper sim title. RBR is just another league and it will always be. The love and the passion that is putted into it is just not match in these newer arcadish and cartoonish titels. Show me a title and I'm talking about all sims in todays market that makes you actually scared the moment when you feel you are loosing the car, this is one of the things that RBR done so well. Driving a powerful rally car on a loose surface trying to push your time, feels terrifying and rewarding in the same time. Getting the flow right and star blasting through stages you feel like flying. Balancing the car by tickling the gas and brake pedals like a dance move or something. RBR is not only the best rally sim is one of the best and most original sims of them all and it doesn't matter how old it is. I'm not fanboying here actually didn't play it since years, but these are just facts.

[@DctrBread]

personally, i think everybody will more or less shift towards finding dirt rally 2 hard to go back to. the behavior of the engine, exhaust, suspension, body attitude, and the complexity of the connection between the car and the road is so much more rudimentary in dirt. richard burns is also the only rallysim with a realistic damage model right now, which is a major aspect of the driving experience. i mean shit, i dont even know if i consider dirt rally easier to drive, the cars are very unresponsive and muddy feeling. richard burns also has a sick tutorial, something neither wrc nor dirt have.

[@fairrodthecapacitor]

Great video! I just have to say, I have seen and heard a lot of people complain about the default co driver pace notes but I think that is due to not fully understand why. The default co driver in RBR is his co driver from his rally career Robert Reid. They won the WRC championship 2001. Richard pace notes system is not some form of typical arcade pace notes that most arcade games use. Those are his real pace notes terminology and it is even regarded as why he was for the most of the time on the top because he was always calculating. I have to say I prefer a number system rather then a descriptive system but I have to say there are far more corner names that are not included in the game that Burns used. Flat to slow corners: Slight Max Flat Fast Easy Medium K- 90 Hairpin (There might be more, possibly forgot one or two of them) A lot of drivers in the WRC has used and still use a descriptive system

[@bernardausterberry6174]

Super review period. I'm a Dirt 2 fan , but was very curious about RB RALLY . I'm not a big fan of doing a lot of fiddling to get a game up and running. I'm not totally driven by eye candy and other graphic hooks. Your notes on physics are welcome and interesting. I agree with your thoughts on the golden age of sims. It's interesting that Richard Burns and Assetto Corsa are both so long in the tooth but still super popular. No super eye candy, decent physics, lot of leagues and mods. And maybe the most important less children playing. I think the one thing developers overlook is,,, don't sell a new piece of crap every year but one good one and perfect it with time. Look at WRC 8 - 10, did we ready need to buy a whole game every year ? Was 10 really that much better than 8 ? Time to start voting with our wallets. Richard Burns and Dirt Rally 2 are both affordable and time proven sims. Which can run on almost any PC CPU and GPU . PS: I'm a bit worried about a new WRC sim. Seeing PC3 and other failures from the developer. We should be prepared for an arcade game , not a sim. The new trend of on line only play will probably be present. And if so how long will it have server support ? (PC1 & 2) I think that in the future we will only be renting games and not buying them. Sorry off topic and starting to rant, tks.

[@JZStudiosonline]

WRC is a licensed product and they want a yearly release schedule. Otherwise the popular sims are the ones that are easy to mod. I think PC2 would've been a good base, but it's hard to mod. AC isn't even particularly good, anything cool it can do is a mod, and likely paid. And also something the devs said wouldn't be possible. PC3 was SMS who was owned by CM for just about 2 or 3 months before launching. Why people think CM made it shit I don't understand. WRC was made by the Dirt Rally crew.

[@FOXeye95]

Question: Have you ever driven a car at all on any road that isn't asphalt? Or actually drove fast at all on a backroad? Ill never understand people who rank physics on racing games and never tried anything closer...

[@another3997]

Yes I have, thanks for asking. 😁 You can't replicate every driving sensation through a force feedback wheel, simply because you feel so much through the rest of your body. However you can approximate many aspects of driving physics, but how "real" it feels also depends on what vehicles you have experienced. I doubt a race prepped rally car will feel or behave anything like a typical road car on any surface.

[@EspenFrafalne]

I love that EA WRC added a lot of older cars. Group B Audi Quatro is a crazy challenge at the longest snow track in Norway (Scandi Rally)

[@santannafelipe]

rbr is the pinnacle of simulation, perfect physics, does not tolerate mistakes, almost an art, like real rallying. And better yet, it runs very well on an hp12c. However, if you are like me, you come from the working class below the equator, you have just built your PC with a lot of sweat, tears and overtime, which in 2014 would be top of the line, you want to see the result in front of your eyes. Pure simulation, all my muscles extremely tense, including my ass, damn copilot saying "easy left, don't cut", tones of stage and cars and. ps2 graphics, I've been there. Today I just want to enjoy the achievement of my work and relax by playing with beautiful graphics and a good simulation as a bonus.

[@MedievalRally]

It would have been nice to spend a bit more time to talk about the physics of RBR. A mere 30 seconds was dedicated to it. The only rally game that has forced me to adopt and practice Scandinavian flicks is RBR. In WRCG left foot braking is extremely over powered and you can almost turn the car like tank. I've been playing RBR for 4 months now. And I still struggle to take turns in the same way I would in WRCG or DR2.0. You really need to handle your steering input with purpose, and the way you manage your throttle while doing powerslides and handbrake turns can make the difference between a smooth transition and spinning the car around. Its such a tasty balancing act that I have grown to appreciate. For the RBR stages I wouldn't say some are duds. But rather some are a little plain. But the variety is there in spades. Whereas a game like WRCG will say it has 100s of stages. But essentially those stages are segmented portions of the Endurance Rally stage for a given country. Once you play the game a lot or if you like doing endurance stages. You will realize that you are racing the same sections. plus with RBR there are people doing gods works and releasing stages still to this day. And again in terms of track design RBR does things that I haven't seen in DR2.0 or any WRC titles. Things like really deep tire tracks that form grooves your tires fall into. Once you hit one of those its a really unique experience. That or wild cambers where the road almost turns into a halfpipe. And everything you hit or drive over you feel so amazingly wheel if you own a DD wheel. Although WRCG and DR2.0 will have its moments. Most stages feel like the road was freshly paved, or bulldozed for you. Some tarmac stages in RBR you really feel like you are driving some country road that is not maintained in a way expecting for a rally to drive over it. Going at full speed over the unevenly patched tarmac patches is a potential rally ender that will catch you off guard if you arent looking for it. To be fair though, RBR does have stages where the surface is overly smooth and even. But the ones that took the time to design a messed up road those are the best ever. That being said. I would definitely recommended starting off with a game like WRCG. If you feel like you are getting the itch give DR2.0 a shot. And once you are ready to be humbled once again. Then prepare yourself for RBR. I would not in any shape or form suggest starting with it. I started with DR2.0 and it made me doubt whether I enjoyed rally. lol Also when you said that RBR physics were not necessarily better. We have to make sure we understand what we are judging it on. Is it whether its fun to drive. Or whether it simulates the experience of driving a real car on a stage feels like. I have yet to enjoy the real life experience, but those that have do mention that RBR does a great job at recreating the experience. Now whether that's more fun or not its entirely subjective, and ultimately dictated by what you what out of a rally game. Anyway still a nice review! You gave a good overview of the 3 main options available for rally.

[@MedievalRally]

As if my comment wasnt long enough. It should also be noted that RBR offers insane flexibility in terms of settings. Things like repositioning the camera. Or switching between different types of Pace Notes Easy,Med,Hard or Numeric Left 1,2,3,4,5,6. Not only that you can make your own recce and pacenotes if you want. In so far as a rally simulator its going to be hard to beat.

[@viktorianas]

Great answer, I think word "fun" is very subjective and is irrelevant when talking about any simulation (which purpose is to simulate), some people will find it fun some won't.

[@rotua98]

no doubt that Dirt and WRC looks better but some of the well made stages in RBR looks realistic and unique to the other whilst Dirt and WRC stages is like a ground with copy paste assets inside it

[@AndreaP76]

Imho they don't look better at all. Dirt has the usual Codemasters arcade look. In WRC everything looks like plastic. RBR's engine may be old and simpler, but imho can have the most realistic graphics even after 20 years. Obviously the vanilla versions of the stages look outdated, and the modded ones depend on how much a modder wants to work on them so it may be something godlike or complete garbage, but when you see what some mad men can achieve, Rosciszow-Walim or Gabiria - Legazpi are some of the latest examples that I can think of, that's like the most photorealistic look someone can think of. Imagine what those people could do with a modern engine.

[@rotua98]

@@AndreaP76 both Rosciszow-Walim or Gabiria - Legazpi is indeed beauty, but stages like that bit feel like Dirt and WRC, but agree they looks more real i love that new Narva Kreenholmi, stage like that you couldnt find in Dirt or WRC even the outdated vanilla track is beautiful, that Rally School Stage, and the Australian and USA stage

[@o6m6f6g6]

As a driver in real life with 16 years experiance I felt a bit "unrealistic" in dirt 2.0 when it goes to traction. Yes it was kinda realistic but feeling of losing grip was like i knew it is game and had to learn again how to counter steer and where the mass of the car is. In RBR i felt much more like driving in real life car in matter of traction, losing it and car weight transmition. I need to admit i wasnt driving irl a wrc car, but i got experiance driving fast on gravel or tarmac irl. I hope some will understand what i mean xD.

[@guswaldhalm]

Richard Burns is so superior in the physics! The best with no doubt in this requisit

[@picure]

With every new rally game that comes out nowadays, it gets compared to RBR…… which speaks volumes about RBR

[@chilli-soup]

When rallying im Dr2, if mates want to rally it's D4. When they want to track race it's FM7 and im ACC. Im Xbox SS with playseat challenge, gear stick n G923 from a 920 so not alot of choice in titles but still put in avg 25hrs a week 😊

[@chasepalumbo2929]

Always like to see dissenting opinions and people that can avoid the groupthink, nice review!

[@marlbro-2473]

I'm not great at rally games, but modern rally games just seem, i don't know... "soft". I don't know how better to explain it. the graphics and physics are great, but something has been lost in the last few years and I can't put my finger on it. There's just something "raw" about racing games from the early 2000s.

[@potatogirlcultist19]

Rally games are a reflection society. Back in 2004, you could banter with your friends, such as imitating someones accent for comedic effect. However, in 2023, if you do this you will be cancelled for racism. Companies didn't have to have the exact same number of males and females working for them,not because they are sexist but because their job may have more candidates from one gender. However, in 2023, your company will be shut down and you will be sent to Alcatraz for 1000 years. In 2040, rally games will let you drive through trees because crashing into one will discourage people who deny climate change fom buying the game. Crowds will not only consist of males and females, but with people who identify as furries as well. Esports players will realise that hitting white straight males will cause their limbs to fall off, and they will recieve a ten second time penalty, but you can go straight through, as it will discourage anyone who is sexist, racist or homopobic. The LGBTQ community will also feature in rally games. Your co-driver will be an -fat- plus sized gay man, whose weight will cost you around 2 seconds a kilometer. When you win stages he will kiss you, and he will make comments such as "200 over jump, 60, right 2 short (just like your penis)". If you lose, he will cheat on you with the winner, but you must not judge him as it would be seen as insecure and abusive to not let your partner have sexual relations with anyone else. If you fire him you will be cancelled for being racist, homophobic and even worse, fatphobic and will be blocked from playing the game forever. When you have finished the rally, you must collect all the rubbish that spectators have left over the 300 km or so of special stages. This challenge will take you almost a year to complete, and it will be seen as a groundbreaking feature that not only teaches the disgusting misogynistic rally community to do their part and make society a better place, but also keeps players playing the game for longer, increasing the life cycle of the game. If your thinking the WRC Generations throttle pedal bug (as a warning for the future, using the term bug is considered offensive to those who identify as insects or potentially homophobic, at can be seen as a shortened word of a homophobic insult, use the word glitch instead) will be fixed, you are so wrong.

[@samdajellybeenie14]

@@potatogirlcultist19 This HAS to be satire. Who thinks like this? Do us all a favor and go outside, get off the internet, talk to some people. Just because companies want to monetize a niche hobby within a niche hobby doesn’t mean “society has gone soft.” The sport of rally is notoriously punishing - make a small mistake and you might actually die. Devs want to make rally games more approachable, it has nothing to do with “society going soft” or whatever that even means.

[@danieljoseph6404]

@@potatogirlcultist19 This is sad, man. I hope you are doing better

[@marko241]

even in it's original version this is the best rally game ever- the physics..graphics..handling of the cars..realism..stress..hardship..immersiveness..tracks..overall feel...this game was not intended for mass population but for real hardcore rally fans and that's why it was neglected and silently 'prosecuted' by corporate world of 'easy fun' experience...I can say we'll always return to this game no matter what big companies put out for us in the future...

[@AshHobson]

All boils down to what you enjoy, If you want to a solo career, WRC, if you want the best short gravel experience and audio, Dirt Rally 2.0, if you like the thought of inflicting as much pain on your ego, try RBR (Rally Sim Fans). Want the most underrated experience - SLRE. Best Tarmac single stage - AC Modded Most brutal rally - BeamNG.

[@utkarshchaurasia2233]

Most realistic driving - RBR

[@2K-Tan]

RBR is 100% free and has the best physics out of any rally game ever made. Enough said. (pretty sad that's the case for a 20 yr old game) DR 2.0 has very weird gravel physics IMHO and WRC is just abysmal unless you're on tarmac. Graphics are irrelevant in a simulator to me. Feeling and gameplay are the only things that really matters to me personally. Not an entirely pointless video as something called "Rally Simulators Compared" but that wouldn't get as many views as the clickbait "Is Richard Burns Rally Overrated?" now would it? I'm sick of content creators and devs gaslighting people into thinking modern racing simulators are just as good as older ones when at best case they are equal to their older counterparts and in worst case they are much worse. Graphics should get less focus and physics should get more. Like it used to be. I 95% agree with your opinion except what we prefer to play, but the clickbait title is just not needed.

[@itGurt]

The arguments here all make sense but you're comparing a AAA studio to a free fan made mod. Like RBR is obviously going to suffer in some places but it's 100% the superior experience

[@another3997]

RBR was a commercial product, just like the two modern games mentioned here, and many commercial games have the ability to add modifications. The question we should be asking is why the two new AAA rally games don't have such detailed physics? With a good simulator you could lower the "realism" to cater for different skill levels and more casual gamers, but if the detail isn't there in the first place, and you can't modify the game, you don't have much choice.

[@CAL1MBO]

I own GP4 and Nascar 2003 season but I never played RBR haha. I used to play Colin McRae Rally and have been playing Dirt Rally and Dirt 2.0 since they released. Is it really worth trying?

[@xXturbo86Xx]

The only rally game that comes close to RBR, in my humble opinion, is Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo. Very good physics, brutal damage model, very good content. It's a shame Milestone is so incompetent at sorting out problems.They released the game in a bad state and never cared to fix it. It's a pain to get it running right and it has quality control issues. Like bad car models etc. but it's a lot of fun.

[@potatoglizzy3212]

Great video, still holds true nearly a year later. I really enjoy both RBR and dirt 2.0 (I’ve put about 100 hours into EA WRC and other than the amazing wrc cars, it feels like a half baked mess) but RBR comes out on top for me due to the online rally’s and overall authenticity when it comes to the damage and handling model. I don’t think all the cars and stages are perfect, some feeling bland or wonky but overall it’s the best and most authentic rally experience you can have in a sim rig.

[@PVCLime]

We need a remake of this fantastic game! And it should be done by people who loves rally and want it to be realistic down to every bit of gravel!

[@mihaiadriancurelea7687]

Way to overrated, car is feeling stiff, control is like gambling, sounds are not helping when going into a drift, definitely not a sim from my perspective.

[@Santidelaro]

I've to agree to disagree. When it comes to sims there's one thing that it is way more important than anything else. Physics. And RBR is unbeatable to this day (what is a pity, really. I'd love to see exactly the same sim with an updated graphic work) I've done real rally for years, and there's nothing that sims better the feel than RBR. Haven't try a WRC since the 1st or 2nd they did for Play Station, because they were just arcades, and at the end all this games made for consoles... Can't be sims if they can be played with a controller. So I guess is question of giving concessions to make a more sellable product. I've been toying around with Dirt 2 again, and I had the same feeling as I did when it first came out. Rebounds are sort of okay, grip is completely wrong, and inertia doesn't exist. Is it fun? Maybe... Is it realist? Not at all. There are things that RBR can't sim properly. RWD cars. No rwd car was included on the vanilla game, so all the development was based on FWD cars reversed. (or at least it was like that on the first propulsion cars that came out) After 20 years I still go back to RBR when I want to enjoy a realistic rally experience, and to the other ones when I feel like I've a few minutes to kill.

[@Ale81rallydriver]

RBR is the reference point for rally simulation thanks to the continuous work of modders. it doesn't compare to games like WRC and Dirt rally. it's like comparing Italian pizza to a pizza made in China 🤣, no game has real special stages, faithfully reproduced, even 36km long, but only copy paste and reverse of a few km of some test.

[@Strannix1979]

I just went back to it. In terms of handling it's so goooood... The Gr. B 205 in Finland. OMG... And it is harder than DR 2.0 but at the same time more chill in the way it is slidy. I love this title.

[@slappomatthew]

I REALLY like DR2.0 I have spent some time driving fast in the dirt and the physics and feel in the dirt is very close to reality, but the street driving is laughably bad.

[@ajrichar0]

If you're stuck with consoles, then RBR is not a real option. I have it on PS2 and it's so difficult that it's just not worth pursuing in 2023. DR 2.0 is outstanding on gravel stages. It's such an enjoyable experience. WRC I cannot say as I've not played it. Essentially, if you're a PC gamer, you have a wealth of options to play. You'd be silly NOT to try rallysimfans' version of RBR. But if you're locked to console, then you are reliant on DR 2.0 and WRC. And they are perfectly adequate and enjoyable experiences.

[@krisx2S]

After playing RBR when it was released, i wasn't able to enjoy any other WRC game up until WRC9 - There's just something special about RBR stages, something that WRC9 was getting close to and all the Codemasters games never dreamed of reaching (some of the track i've seen in the new one do kinda look nice, but the visuals/colors are always super off). Watching recent videos from all those games, only in RBR i can almost feel the car just by looking at the footage.

[@grizar123]

8:57 What plugin is this? I NEED to know!

[@garethhughes5745]

Dirt Rally 2.0 has clubs where you can race anyone (even people not on your friends list) in older rally cars, over the space of a week, at your leisure doing the stages, then at the end of the week, the winner is announced. You cant get that with any other game. RBR you need mods, and aftermarket websites etc to organise it. and in WRC you cannot find the club without being friends of the person running it, and you cannot race in older cars at all as theres no filter for the cars, its just historic, so everyone can drive a 2016 toyota against people in a 1960s car and you wouldnt even know what car was driven as the car isnt even shown in the results. Basically, only DR2 delivers for Multiplayer out of the box. Also, i prefer rally compared to circuit racing as you dont have to be organising your life around when a race takes place. you can do your stages whenever you find the time in your life.

[@ianlindsay6652]

The man, the history, the legend. There's more to Richard Burns than RBR! Rest in peace!!

[@thirtytwoforty]

Project Cars 2 RX cars have the best physics of any Rally Interpretation to date

[@2K-Tan]

RX cars aren't rally cars. Two different things entirely.

[@thirtytwoforty]

@@2K-Tan in a sim setting, physics and tire model are what matters. They're different, Power limit and suspension set ups for sure. But they're definitely not entirely different, especially previous generations of Rally car that are depicted in these games. The new Gen of WRC 1 and WRC 2 cars are even less different.

[@ryanairryanair4185]

@@thirtytwoforty it's simcade

[@jannisya3143]

RBR/RSF hu is the Best in Rallye Sim! No words more needet. I Player this Over 10 years and the feeling is the Best

[@1uke69er]

The graphics put me off for a while but i'm super glad I finally tried it. I find that you get so focused on trying not to die that you don't notice the graphics It might not be the latest and greatest but it feels like a throw back to when games where made out of love not greed. If I could only have one rally game id probably go with dirt rally 2.0 but its pretty close but RBR is free so its defiantly worth trying

[@krystiankrassowski2115]

I've been playing DR2.0 for 3 months and I felt like I got very decent at it, so shortly after i decided to try RBR. And it was like slap in the face. Suddenly i couldn't finish stage even at moderate/slow speed. But when i stick to RBR for longer I realized that no other game gives that level of immersion when u "lock in" to the stage. Anyway. Both games are great. But ''dark souls of rally'' title should be given to RBR.

[@bolaobikes]

RBR is a labour of love! Since the older days of the Cz plugin, RSRBR etc... Off course lets never forget our GOD "Workerbee" that has been the GOAT with all the NGP physics updates! Im really proud to have been helping whenever i can and will never stop doing that! For instance at 7:27 kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z164i5JrmKiWopI its my H.Mikkola tribute livery on the Audi that RSF implemented witch made me feel so proud!

[@ecchi12]

I personally really like the graphics. Ofc it looks worse but it's just those early graphics that give me nostalgic vibes. Never played it though haha.

[@bicello]

a car completely still, in neutral, that slowly slides toward one side in 90° transverse direction because the ground have maybe 1 or 2° incline; a 10 meters fly toward the zenith after having hit a small stone hidden among the grass at the side of the road... this is what i remember of RBR, my experience of that game. i guess there is a lot of people that consider an hovercraft behaviour (that can fly) to be perfect for a rally car, the cult status of that game demonstrates it, but i'm not among them, i don't consider it realistic. i tried RBR almost 20 years ago (the vanilla game) and never played it again.

[@fenwa592]

Have you tried it with the NGP physics?

[@reynaldiwidjaja277]

Yea coming from assetto corsa driving tarmac in dirt feels really weird.

[@detonator2112]

It's not overrated. It's still the best rally sim. Like it or not.

[@Touay.]

it is amazing to think that when RBR first came out, the most popular car on the road was the ford granada.... maybe.

[@permium2371]

The funniest part of playing RBR It doesn't feel easy as other games When playing Dirt2.0, after a while the game starts to feel easy I haven't tried WRC, but I'm sure it's the same. To be good at RBR, you have to train. It's like switching from forza horizon to acetto corsa.

[@mrman3904]

I'm a Norwegian rally driver, and I have to say that RBR is the only game to pretty much perfectly replicates driving rally in real life. DiRT Rally 2.0 and WRC Generations have physics that make the car feel floaty. RBR has the snappy, stiff feeling that rally cars have in real life. Both DiRT 2.0 and WRC Gens have inconsistent levels of grip, it almost feels like they hold your hand through the turns depending on what the game thinks you wish to do. Especially DiRT feels like it increases grip if you're sliding, and conservation of momentum just isn't a thing in either DiRT or WRC Gens. RBR is the only way to go if you're a real rally enthusiast.

[@OverTake_gg]

Thank you, thats a great impression!

[@xFaZebRuTaLx]

RBR RSF is unplayable for me with my g920 and so is dirt rally 2. I have fallen in love with WRC Generations due to how you have an amazing balance of grip while also sliding around with its physics and force feedback.

[@lebroncarter4902]

Well the thing is with Richard Burns rally there are a lot of people that says it's one of the best rally games and I would have to say yes because of the mods without the mods i can say no but it depends on your preference too The NGP mod plus thousands of vehicle and maps make this the ultimate rally experience Dirt 3 was my favorite for a very long time what do I do like the new dirt rally and it had become my favorite it just can't keep up with Richard burns rally as far as it goes with the mods so that's why it has a huge advantage over pretty much all other rally games even the base game is really good But with mods it makes it so much more replayable and I am very impressed with what they were able to do what this game way back then It is my go-to game that I can recommend to many if they ever want to get into serious rally gaming but dirt 3 for beginners or dirt rally

[@filipgondol1299]

Rbr is good, but the rsf modification is overrated

[@jaytoppo1670]

I actually bought RBR on CD in November of 2003 and still have it, in pristine condition, RBR has heritage, all the others just want to catch up all the time... for true rallying, RBR's overall structure is that of true rallying, rally's of endurance, the multiplayer aspect is far better than the newer sims... DR2.0 and the WRC titles I do enjoy but RBR, I love RBR. 20 years heritage and massive community support proves it's worth. It will never be beaten in terms of it's overall package.. The RBR community should be proud of their achievement!! And thank you Richard!! RIP with the greats mate!! Everybody in the rally world seem to be drawn more to Colin McRae than Richard, but for me, Richard was and always will be the better driver out of the two. Colin's over aggression was his downfall, Richard was "as cool as a cucumber" as they say lol...

[@tazwest6992]

The game was release at nov 2004!and you are play in 2003?think you have write wrong date!

[@jaytoppo1670]

@@tazwest6992 I have the actual game from the day of release and inside is the receipt from the purchase which I kept in there for that very specific reason, it was 2003, the receipt doesn't lie.

[@s4uss]

WRCG tarmac definitely doesn't have better grip (not more realistic) than RBR, and is closer to DR2, don't know what you're smoking.

[@samppa109s]

In rbr i like ripping drive shafts from 4wd cars and making them rear wheel drive. I play the Original because its superbly easier to use settings and my pc is also highly old

[@Bitto69]

RBR for life🍻

[@leventeerdos9469]

Továbbra is az RBR a 🐐, kivéve ha szeretne az ember kávéfőző hangú, hajó fizikájú autós arcade játékkal játszani. Aki szimulátorozni akar annak “sajnos” marad az RBR 😂😂😂

[@jannisya3143]

RBR with NGP Physics are awesome ❤😉😎

[@jesusismyhigh123]

I mean the fact that's its even comparable to 10+ year newer AAA titles says it all, and rally sim fans is totally free its a no question imo

[@recarsion]

If you can get over the dated look (which I don't even think it's that bad tbh) and the awkward setup experience, it's absolutely 100% still the king of rally. Dirt Rally is great but you will memorize all the stages in like a month or two and then it's basically just time attacking over and over again as career mode also gets old very very fast.

[@ChargeDrifters]

It's cool that a lot of mod floating for this game.

[@ThisVideoAnnoyedMe]

Tried playing it back in 2004 and reinstalled it several times since then but it always was and still is impossible to drive (with a controller, never tried wheel). Constant sliding off the track unless you want to coast at a boring and unexciting 70km/h or less to actually finish a stage. It's one of the hardest, most difficult rally games ever made. Not to mention that nearly everything is locked until you play the Rally School and the whole Championship. You can never restart any stage either which means you can totally fail a rally by crashing out on the last stage. Nor is there even a proper internal dashboard view either. Better to play any of the Colin McRae Rally games made by 2004 and earlier instead, they have much more interesting and exciting stages without any of these annoyances.

[@MrBanaanipommi]

internal PROPER dashboards are coming soon to RBR!!!! also if you now downloaded RSF RBR and buy used g27 steering wheel you will absolutelu love to drive it if you enjoy having realistic driving experience!

[@another3997]

You lost all credibility when you admitted you don't use a wheel, just a controller. 😂

[@cezzy3172]

tip for RBR, RSF had good championship, but most realistic is RBR-CUP on czech plugin, at this championship is Factory teams, team championship, junior championship and more

[@reeewhydoihavetochangethese]

I LOVE RBR for tarmac rally but for gravel I prefer Dirt Rally 2.0, maybe I'm just bad but tarmac in DR2 feels terrible and gravel in RBR feels not so great to me. Not bad, but on my super weak G29 I feel like the ffb in DR2 makes it a better experience than RBR. Overall as a free rally sim RBR is massive and has everything you could ask for and I would recommend it to anybody interested in rally sim racing

[@MrPercy78]

Been with RBR from the begining and think you make a realy fair and good review of the game. I love it but sometimes is nice with some more "arkade" lite Dirt 2 and with other gamemodes like rallycross.

[@donoussa]

No idea what a goat is other than a sheep like thing in a field. Came for cars, left because of the sheep

[@SasekPL]

Personally, the driving model was even cool when I played RBR. However, the graphics look like they're from the last century and it's hard for me to play. 95% of special stages created by the community are of low quality, few gems. For me it's not enough to be interested in this title. However, graphics are important to me in terms of perception. So imo RBR is overrated.

[@WacKEDmaN]

i use unmodded RBR.. its lots of fun, ive been playing it since it was released, its great to fun to to pick up and do some of the challenge tracks every now and then, the physics hold up nicely.. nothing really special needed to run it, a few ini tweaks is all thats needed for the default game..Dirt 2.0 is alot of fun too

[@AJslayer86]

No. Absolutely not overrated. Sorry.

[@AndreaP76]

DR2 and WRC may be more "enjoyable", but that's because they simply are "simcades" at best. Codemasters never did something too much realistic, just the bare minimum, but at least they made some enjoyable games for when you just want to have fun. The WRC series imho is and has always been a complete joke, from the almost non existant physics engine to the driving model and even to look at...everything looks like plastic. To be honest, if I have to choose a simcade game, I prefer Art Of Rally to those two hands down. And if a top down "arcadey" game made by literally one person in the end has better physics than 2 of the most big budget powered games with hundreds of people working on them...well, it makes you think what even a simcade game could really be. RBR was amazing even when it came out and would still probably be the best today even with the vanilla version only. One of those sims that, like you said, between the last 90s and the first 2000s aimed at the most possible realism we could have expected in those years with that hardware. There's a reason some of them are still played and modded after 20 or more years (Grand Prix Legends is another great example, or the other old Papyrus titles made before the studio was shut down and were the precursors to what became Iracing a few years after) and literally transformed many of the modders in the actual devs of most studios (Simbin few years back, Kunos etc etc). PS: for the original co-driver: that was how Richard wanted the notes, and that's why in the sim too they're like that (he was deeply involved in the developement and that's one of the reasons we got this gem). I can understand they can sound too generic to someone, but personally I've never had a problem with it back then. :)

[@z0rgMeister]

You nearly got an angry rant when you said it was a little bit overrated...You've been forgiven when you said it isn't. I also understand preferring more modern interfaces and experiences...I wish they just did an up to date version of RBR, core physics but modern...DR2.0 comes close but not quite...

[@LofD989]

WRCs games, WRC 2023, Dirt Rally 2.0 all this games have poor car pivot point physics, where you sliding your back wheels around pivot point when you turning left and righ even in 20km/h, this just destroy whole realism and make all this games just like sliding championship. RBR updated to 2023 plugins etc is just TOP 1 Rally sim, many IRL Rally drivers in EU play RBR to practice.

[@anthonydry5265]

IF RBR is so realistic why cant i keep my car straight on tarmac? Cars don't move across the road like a block of ice!