Overview of Wrenn and Hornby 8F

Second in series of selected overviews and comparisons of my locomotive fleet. Here I'm reviewing my Stanier 8F 2-8-0's from Wrenn and Hornby. A significant model in many ways, the original Hornby-Dublo version came out in 1957 and it was to be over thirty years before another 2-8-0 was to be modeled by a rtr manufacturer.
Thank you for watching.

[@bianchikat]

fab insight into a wonderful LMS workhorse..I only have one.. now I'm thinking again..

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Hi, Thank you indeed, delighted you enjoyed. You can never have enough 8Fs!! Great locos, and great models: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKrWZqymjt2EoNU

[@curlew1000]

Thank you. Very interesting. I still like the solid engineering of the Wrenn.

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Much appreciated. Bullet proof, solid, and relatively straightforward to re-paint and re-brand.

[@robinforrest7680]

Love my HD 8F. £16 off ebay a few years ago. It had been sitting in a loft in Scotland for over 30yrs. When it arrived, I put it on the track, turned up my Duette and away it went. The latest Hornby offerings look very good, but I wonder if they'll still be running in 2080...

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Hi, thank you for your observation. The latest Hornby model will probably need a new canned motor (or two) by 2080, provided, of course, if everything else holds up!

[@Night_Ferry]

There's definitely something special about the dublo 8f. For its time it's a cracking model and still holds up well. It's main detractor is the cab full of motor. However these have power to spare, much like the real one. If you catch your sleave on it it damn near drags you around the layout! I think the fact that you can still find these at work at exhibitions speaks volumes. A bit of painting and detailing and they don't stand out as old, just an anonymous 8f passing. There are some good older generation models that people are to quick to retire due to a newer version being released. The tender drive schools springs to mind...

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Many thanks, so right you are. I hope some may be tempted to follow my example (if that is not too arrogant) and undertake a little upgrading. You are right about the Margate Schools, mine have all received some attention, my favourite being the Malachite one...with the Malachie deflectors. Someone once remarked to me a few years ago, "why would anyone buy the new one when you can get them to look like that!" I'd never consider the RailRoad Compound loco drive or not, no lining and the ones I've seen resemble LMS 'pink' and you can pick up a pristine Margate one beautifully lined out in deep maroon for £50 or so.

[@Night_Ferry]

@@crewelocoman5b161 To be fair, the railroad schools "Dover" in olive green was the sweet spot. It moved to loco drive so the geared tender wheels were replaced by the proper maunsell wheels from the newer model. The paintwork was spot on before they started dialing it back a bit. It also had some nice removable couplings up front if you wanted to drop them. I remember your schools with the deflectors painted and I believe the cylinders lined out to. A nice job indeed. I like to see modellers modelling :)

[@crewelocoman5b161]

@@Night_Ferry Sounds like the Schools faired better than the Compound. I'm not at all sure that the malachite painted cylinders was correct. I've never come across a colour photo but based on some monochrome pictures they were black. It didn't look 'right' to me somehow, so painted and lined they were...and I did the same to the Lord Nelson. It's all good stuff though!!

[@russellbenton2987]

Fine collection of 8fs . Very interesting . Got a later Hornby loco drive one . Been thinking about a Wrenn one because it has presence .

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Many thanks, you can't go wrong there. Very smooth runners, quiet, strong ...er bullet proof!

[@lindsaywood1101]

Always find your videos very informative and interesting in their detail. Thank you. You have a fine collection of locomotives. As a bit of constructive criticism, please, please, keep the camera still and let the subject move and not vice versa. It really can be very off-putting when watching.

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Thank you for your comments and observations. Delighted you enjoyed the session. I am more than aware of the limitations of my filming and it is something which I have to work very hard at in an attempt to get it right. I only have the full use of one hand and the controls for the camera are on the "wrong side" in my case. I've been told to use a tripod by some commentators but that doesn't work for me either. It's static and doesn't allow for close up and angles for comparisons to be made. It also become a hazard in the middle of the layout. Latterley, (Hornby 9F 'running issues') my wife has undertaken the camera work for me freeing me up to concetrate on the narrative which has helped enormously.

[@curlew1000]

Brilliant. Very informative.

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Hi. Thank you indeed! Your comment and interest is very much appreciated. All the very best to you for the New Year.

[@johnmckegney9109]

Fascinating details about a truly fine model. I have a Wrenn one which performs beautifully and can pull huge trains. Please, please, please get a holder for your camera. It really is off putting watching the wobbling locos….move the locos not the camera! 😊

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Thank you for your comments and observations. I do use a small tripod to hold my camcorder. The problem I have is that I only have the full use of one hand. Filming is the most difficult aspect of this hobby for me particularly when the controls are on the 'wrong' side of the camera. I lost the use of my right hand in an accident when I was fourteen and please don't tell me to use a tripod, I've tried it and it doesn't work for me!

[@stretchedits]

A great video detailing the development of one model through the years...............I haven't got an 8F myself but do keep looking as I think they are gorgeous looking heavy work engines. As regards your 48000 model which you said should have a domeless boiler, am I right in thinking the boilers regularly got swapped between engines as they went through Crewe works. Especially when the chassis was ready before the boiler and they wanted the loco out. Enjoyed very much best regards Dave.

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Hi, Thank you very much for your detailed observation. Indeed, you are correct about the swapping around of boilers in works. Like the first production run of 'Black Fives' it was the shape/positioning of the boiler throatplate in relation to the frames which dictated the switching. I believe Crewe always kept spare original throatplate designed boilers for facilitating overhauls. I've have never seen a photo with of 48000 with a domed boiler . Crewe did retrospectively convert early Black Five boilers to sloping throatplate boilers but not all. I have a picture of 48000 at Toton in October 1965 still with a domeless boiler. Although ostensibly the same as a Black Five boiler the 8Fs' was 12 inches shorter so not as straightforward as it first appears. It is a complicated story. Hope that helps! Go on...spoil yourself! Cheers, Graeme.

[@stretchedits]

@@crewelocoman5b161 Thanks so much for your comments. I did read something about the minefield of differences between locos with sloping and straight throatplate boilers once. I think it was actually the Black Five and Jubilee designs I read about. When you point out that the 8F and Black five boilers were only 12 inches different it makes you wonder why the same boiler wasn't used for both designs, did those 12 inches make so much difference to the performance of the boilers steaming characteristics. Your right though, it is a fascinating story we wouldn't appreciate properly today.

[@crewelocoman5b161]

@@stretchedits Many thanks for your post again. I can't remember the thinking behind the difference in length between the two boilers. There must have been some reason for it, I'll do some further digging on that one. I don't think there was any difference in their respective steaming abilities...both were very good. The cylinders were exactly the same, but the valve settings were different reflecting the type of work they were expected to perform. The 8F's, coming as they did, a couple of years later picked up on some of the shortcomings that became apparent on the Black Fives. Also, there is a school of thought that suggests that much of the foundation of the Black Five's success was down to the draughtsmen at Vulcan Foundry who turned out the first batch of twenty or was it twenty-five? Whatever, all good stuff!

[@crewelocoman5b161]

@@stretchedits Here's the answer: " All 8F boilers were designated Type 3C and a total of 893 was produced...The original 2-8-0 scheme produced under Stanier envisaged the engines sharing the Type 3B boiler with the mixed traffic 4-6-0's but when more detailed design work started it was found that in order to achieve satisfactory weight distribution, the firebox had to be moved further forward. This required shortening of the barrel by a foot and so the boiler had to be redesigned, which was a fairly simple process as only the second ring of the barrel was tapered, making it necessary only to shorten the first, parallel, ring by the required amount." The Class 8F 2-8-0s LMS Locomotive Profiles, Hunt, Jennison, James and Essery. Wild Swan Publications. Hope that helps!

[@stretchedits]

@@crewelocoman5b161 Hi, thank you so much for researching the history of those boilers on the 8F and Black Five. I really appreciate you taking the time to find out the details of the different boilers like you have, it makes a refreshing change on here especially. I look forward to your next class comparison video with bated breath. Best regards and thank you again Dave.

[@coalbridgejunction7674]

Hi Graham glad to see you are safe and well wonderful video of the 8f I have one on Coalbridge it is a wren in a grey livery with smoke sound an lights please watch my next video I do have a problem with the wheels on the tender the actual wheel axel mounts have worn excentric do you know where I can get some or a contact for wren hope you can help kind regards Martin

[@crewelocoman5b161]

Hi Martin, Thanks for your comments. I will look out for your next video in my notifications. As to availability of Wrenn spares I'm unable to provide a definitive answer. Dapol acquired the Wrenn tools in 1992 and did nothing with them apart from re issue the plastic injection mould wagons. Dapol disposed of the tools and a group of enthusiasts gandre-wrenn acquired some existing stock issued spares,transfers and some body shells until they ceased trading in 2015. Another small business called Tony Cooper Trains made replica HD boxes for locos and coaches and also some exclusive Wrenn models Bulleid spamcan and Royal Scot. fabulous models with prices to match together with a huge range of HD spares and Wrenn spares. They also made some exclusive tin plate Mk 1 coaches that HD never made; I'm not aware that anyone else ever made the tin plate stuff when HD ceased trading. Unfortunately, Tony Cooper died in 2018 and his son is attempting to continue with the business. There is a new company called "NewWrenn" based in Buxton, sounds like yet another attempt to revive the brand, but it's anybody's guess really. I'll provide the links for you. Make of it what you will. Sorry I can't be of any more help. www.newwrenn.co.uk/Default.aspx www.coopertrains.com/ Graeme

[@coalbridgejunction7674]

@@crewelocoman5b161 Hi Graeme thanks for your reply your reply and will see were they lead me When at Warley exhibition last year i visited a stand which had Wrenn loco etc and they were very helpful as i was after a set of spoked wheels at that time but they could not help but i did find some on E-Bay and its possible it was Wrenn I was talking too one again thanks for your help and please keep your wonderful videos coming kind regards Martin