P. Percy's Prototype Patent Model Rifle

[@12q8]

The J is part of the name. Patent: US39494A Application granted 1863/8/11 You weren't far off with your estimate. I skimmed the patent, but it is a patent granted for a John Percy from Albany describing a rifle with two triggers. Now that I think about it, the video title should be "J.P. Percy's Prototype Patent Model Rifle"

[@diamondflaw]

I think I found it! Kinda jumbled description, but a lot matches up. Patent US39494A (unfortunately no images on Google Patents) JOHN PERCY, or ALBANY, NEW YORK. - IMPROVEMENT IN YBRLEECH-LOADING" FIRE-ARMS. Specification forming part of Letters Patent No. 39,494 dated August 11, 1863. The description mentions: "A repre sents the wood portion of the stock, Athe metallic frame which surrounds it, and B the neck or reducedportion of the stock, which, together with the grooved holding portion 0, are cast in" one piece, with the exception of a side plate, B, that is fitted on the side of neck 13, and forms a water-tight cover for the lock, which is contained within this 'neck B, as will be hereinafter described." "Bydrawing the projecting finger-piece of the latch E back, this latch will release the rear end of the barrel, and, the forward end being-the heaviest, the barrel will assume a position for receiving the cartridge" "To the opposite end'of tumbler F the rear setting-trigger, G, is pivoted by means of couplinglink, g, which causes the backward movement of this trigger to thrust the hammer e backward audto cock now in use."

[@Kawawaymog]

Very cool, good find!

[@johnfisk811]

I wonder if the chiselled interior was the remains of the wood chiseling done on the wooden pattern from which the brass was cast?

[@wlewisiii]

I am reminded of the locks on flintlock & percussion rifles. The tumblers are quite similar. I think he probably saw it as a way to make a more reliable & accurate single shot rifle, perhaps ala rook rifles, in the aftermath of the ACW. I can only imagine that lock with a decent falling block action ala the Browning or Martini.

[@johngibson2884]

J. Paul Percy Jr son of famous Dr John Percy British scholar and metallurgist ... A British gunsmith who lived in New York . of the famous British Percy gunsmithing family ....Granddaughter is still making guns in the Percy tradition His uncle was Lord Ralph Percy who wrote many famous gunsmithy and hunting books .."Debrett's book of game cards " is part of the Official Royal library in Windsor . The granddaughter is Lady Katie Percy , 37, a now famous gunstock maker and motorcycle maker(!). Dr .John Percy is the father of modern metallurgical science at Birmingham university. The family is quite famous for gunwork in British history

[@Kumimono]

His full name was actually Lord Percival Fredrickstein von Musel Klossowski de Rolo III. /nerdjoke

[@SadamSkywalker]

The rifle is Bad News then. Funny how it made it here all the way from Tal'Dorei.

[@tendrax]

Yesssss, Was hoping another critter would show up.

[@TheCHEOCUPEY]

A yes a crit roll fan

[@helgenlane]

Came to the comments just to find this one!

[@MercFromStalker]

I would say in like later musket times like during early 1800s, this would be very useful since you don’t have to go through the musket rifle reload and cocking since you have all of it all near your trigger finger

[@spokehedz]

"Looks like someone went at it with a spoon." I think that this is the first instance of shots figuratively fired on this channel.

[@theogeitondasamphilochos5630]

This gun reminds me the extractor-free rimfire carbine by Frank Wesson...

[@rilesmattix5217]

That is A LOT of P's

[@JerryEricsson]

Wow man they came up with some really great rifles back whenever that was made! I would love to have a little carbine like that in say .444 Marlin or even .44 Mag. How about one in .45 Long Colt, or even my favorite round of all times the venerable .45 ACP for those shots that you just can't quite make from your handy M1911A1 pistol.

[@peterd9940]

The last time i was this early gun Jesus was reviewing the newest model of chinese hand cannons

[@timdelph9048]

Am I missing something? When the cocking trigger is "at rest", the firing pin is forward, right? Seems like it since there is a recess in the barrel for it. So if you put a round in and closed the action, you'd be slamming the firing pin into the rim unless you'd cocked it first.

[@Big_Loo]

Maybe it was just his personal hunting rifle or something like that.

[@andyrihn1]

But can you swap the mechanism between different stocks to, say, change the grip angle or length of pull?

[@andrewamann8855]

It looks like you could, but you might also change your trigger angles by doing so, though not by much, by the looks of it.

[@zulphur]

You cant have too many triggers. Three triggers triggers something in me.

[@barrandilltanathlas1177]

Could do with a wooden fore grip.

[@exterminatusnow1264]

Ye olde guns had such classy look to them, pity it is not such in today's world.

[@zxggwrt]

Percy strikes me as the kind of fellow who just wants shit to work and can often get the job done with one shot.

[@gnarshread]

A drop in trigger way before it's time. So how do you load the rifle? Is that what the 3rd lever is for?

[@Demosthenes10101]

Has anyone managed to contact Ian about this weapon? It looks like more than one person in the comments managed to find the patent for Mr. John Percy. This is what I found following their leads. Patent: US39494A Application granted 1863/8/11: patents.google.com/patent/US39494 Maybe Ian has lost interest in this weapon, but maybe he can also find out who Mr Percy was and if he had any other innovative firearms contributions.

[@rilesmattix5217]

Having a trigger for the extraction lever would have made this thing even more glorious

[@davidgrover5996]

Riles Mattix, Your comment should be pinned to the top.

[@sargesoap]

Nah, my friend. Mr. Percy knew the exact amount of triggers to add, and he didn't go over it. Four would've just been overkill.

[@Cohac]

@@sargesoap "And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.""

[@studentdrake]

@@Cohac 1-2-5

[@Cohac]

@@studentdrake three sir!

[@Glurgi]

Mr Percy had a fever, and the only cure were more triggers :)

[@OptimusSledge]

If a manufacturer had picked up this design, they'd all have been wearing gold plated diapers.

[@iwishyouhappinnes1125]

Oh more triggers love triggers.

[@john-paulsilke893]

I have a drilling with four barrels, it only has two triggers!!! I must have this gun, I need more triggers. 🤪

[@coolspruta]

@@john-paulsilke893 Woulnd't that be a Vierling then?

[@dragonbutt]

Its literally like someone described a rifle to him via telegraph and he built it

[@lukerickert5203]

There are old methods for using chisels for shaping metal. If you don't have a milling machine it is probably the best option (if still rather miserable)

[@CandidZulu]

Cold chisels are use by gunsmiths still when forming the outside of the action.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

I prefer to believe Mr. Percy diligently scooped out the brass using kitchen utensils. Such a determined man he must have been...

[@observed00]

I figured the marks were in the mold.

[@brittakriep2938]

In the first year of my german-style Maschinenschlosser training, chisels were used to work with steel. This was in 1982, up to now i never needed this working technique in practice.

[@Lazarus7000]

"Machined by hand" you could say, if it wasn't such a linguistic punchbowl-turd of a phrase...

[@T.S.Birkby]

Prior planning prevents piss poor performance, probably

[@FirstDagger]

Precisely.

[@otto253]

My grandad used to always say that when we made model planes

[@warpstrike]

I Tought it was " Proper prior planning prevent pitifully poor performances"

[@gullreefclub]

warpstrike I was taught it was the 5P’s “Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance” and that was of course preceded by the 4 letter acronym “KISS” “Keep It Simple Stupid”.

[@T.S.Birkby]

gullreefclub Probably a Mandela effect type of thing, I heard different variations as well

[@jamesslick4790]

Drops out an entire Victorian self contained "fire control group". Hmm Love it even more!

[@francislematt7079]

Perhaps Mr Percy developed this cocking system for people who lost their thumb.

[@loddude5706]

@@francislematt7079 - The Rt. Hon. Justice Fingers? . . . (sorry)

[@noremorsewoodworking2258]

Quite a steampunk gun - make it belt fed and I'll buy two for a vehicle mount :)

[@gullreefclub]

Francis leMatt I rather think he was looking to make a hammerless rifle that with the plate mounted fire control could be easily mass produced. The lack of hammer makes the firearm a good bit more sealed up and eliminates a accidental discharge from a hammer being struck. Additionally this design would make it easier to fire and reload the rifle if on horseback especially if a automatic extractor or ejector was added.

[@skepticalbadger]

Also known as a "lock".

[@rfswitch4530]

This is an epic example of a forgotten weapon. I'm a huge fan of people's one-offs. Firearms like this represent designers putting their ideas (sometime poor ideas) in to practice. Very much appreciated content. Thanks Ian.

[@Skullbushi]

maybe it was for people that lost their right thumbs

[@jasonsilkowski7282]

3:37 Sig's modular trigger pack in the 1870s

[@cmtptr]

*Steyr's

[@Kaboomf]

Actually that trigger pack is very reminiscent of shotgun sidelocks from the same period, except for the cocking trigger of course. Some fancy shotguns and double rifles had detachable locks, they whould come off on plates shaped very similarily to this one. Also, I think he reused some parts off a shotgun lock as that think contains some parts that require skill to make but would be simple enough to cannibalize from a shotgun. Looking at the mainspring and the tiny linkage that connects it to the hammer, specifically.

[@peter-ls4vp]

A real forgotten weapon

[@philllax1719]

Can you use it to steam hams? Upstate NY represent!

[@Sosig593]

PP gun

[@merkebrae]

I'm triggered.

[@duncanmcgee13]

PP-2000 would like to know your location

[@arifhossain9751]

Watch out boys he's cocked and loaded.

[@arifhossain9751]

I really want to know if this dude ever made a pistol... Cos you know...

[@rogerwennstrom6677]

If it exists, it probably has like four triggers and five hammers :)

[@Sgt_Paco]

P. Percy's Prototype Patent Pistol

[@faber8251]

probably a pinfire pocket pistol.

[@MrDmitriRavenoff]

Percy's 'Prudent Protector' prototype pocket pistol.

[@seantabor2183]

@@MrDmitriRavenoff P. Percy's Prudent Protector Prototype Patent Pending Pinfire Pocket Pistol. Available only in 9mm Parabellum.

[@LordAn0bis]

That surly is crude chiseled out brass casting. Nice to see what people can make without a milling machine

[@gullreefclub]

Ch Bo I have hogged out pockets of metal using a cold chisel when working in the field away from machine tools with quite good results. It is one of the projects I am glad I had to make in shop class because it gave me the knowledge of how to do it manny years latter in life

[@d3faulted2]

Goes to show what you can do when you really want something and don't have a milling machine. Being brass i'd imagine chiseling that out wouldn't have been nearly as horrible as if it was steel.

[@ArcturusOTE]

The handguard looks like someone picked up a -gourd- horseradish and then made a gun of it

[@ihmehiitaja]

Trigger warnings! This video has a lot of triggers!

[@weswolever7477]

I’m triggered

[@markbecht1420]

All alliteration aside, it's really not a bad concept for a single shot shotgun. Need to work on the ergonomics a bit, but squeeze cocking worked for HK

[@Isaac-ho8gh]

Its not a shotgun likely, it probably has a full-rifled barrel along with .44 or .45 calibre usually not being associated with any shotgun shells or loads except for rat-shot bullets for rifled guns. On top of that also, octagonal barrels back then usually has rifling.

[@Isaac-ho8gh]

However, I agree that it can be a useful concept.

[@greasyt9400]

I'd rather have something like this in .30-06 than a shot shell. But personal tastes and all that. The light and deliberate trigger and FCG in this would be good for hunting

[@mopar_dude9227]

I imagine that due to the crudeness of the inside surface of the brass receiver, making the trigger assembly as one unit on a separate piece of metal was easier (if not essential). You need a relatively flat, smooth surface for the trigger assembly to work properly and the inside of those receivers are anything but that.

[@dbmail545]

More evidence it is a prototype. That mechanism would probably have pinned parts if put into manufacture.

[@milsurpmarine8628]

Ian ... I wonder if Mr. P. Percy worked at Watervliet Arsenal (just outside of Albany) and made this prototype in his spare time. I’ll have to do some research. Interesting video.

[@diamondflaw]

I did a separate comment for it, but don't know how much visibility it will get... I'm reasonably sure that I found the patent US39494A in 1863 to John Percy of Albany, NY. Google Patents has the text of it, but not the diagrams. It does go into fairly detailed description of what we're seeing in the video though. I'm not seeing mention of the Arsenal, but it was witnessed by Samuel Winchester, so I'm pretty sure it's designed for slaying demons though it does not mention that purpose directly.

[@americanrebel413]

That is a really cool looking gun! Thank you for showing it.

[@yoitired]

It's really cool how these guys, who would otherwise be completely lost to time, happen to have one of their projects dug up 100+ years later, get mentioned on a tech platform they couldn't even comprehend at the time, for an audience of 10s of thousands of people. I guess the moral is to build stuff and put your name on it, maybe cyborgs will be talking about you 1000 years from now because of it.

[@CandidZulu]

Its a Handspanner kiplaufbüchse, a type of gun very popular for stalking to this day. They are made by high end makers like Blaser and Heym. Mr. Percy was before his time with this one! ;)

[@glasstuna]

Albany huh? Banned in New York as a high capacity firearm.

[@NewtronStarsaber]

looks like Chisel marks in those castings. i would say that is exactly what i would expect of a blacksmithsshop prototype. Verry nice work on the trigger group though. i wished i could have made someting like that suring my apprentisship as a mechanic cause except the Barrel maybe it could be hand crafted :). Verry nice find and again a cool Vid Thx for all the work .

[@TheRealCaptainFreedom]

P. Percy’s Prototype Patented Personal Pellet-Popping Perforator.

[@hawk7895]

very interesting designs, also for hobby gun smiths

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

The lockwork housing was in fact chipped out with a chisel and file I suspect.

[@davidcool5189]

Looked more like it was done with a drunk, ill-tempered beaver.

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

@@davidcool5189 Nah, wasn't a drunk beaver, it was a dull beaver.

[@davidcool5189]

What does alcohol do to your senses? Sure as shit doesn't increase the chooch factor.

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

@@davidcool5189 As long as you can turn the beaver to 11, all is well and good. Plus, at that noise level it keeps all the clipboard warriors well and truly the fuck away.

[@norwegianwiking]

now thats what AvE would call "going at it with a dull beaver"

[@leoarkeveld439]

Brass and steel,anatomical shape,complicated triple trigger.. :)

[@germen343]

What?

[@brudibrudi9237]

@@germen343 i think He wants to say that He Limes it.

[@brookes6177]

what if his first name was Percy too

[@arifhossain9751]

Poor Percy Percy probably got persecuted in preparatory school for his parents' peculiar post-birth prerogative to picking his name.

[@colonthree]

Percival Percy

[@knightowl3577]

Sir Percy Percy friend of Edmond Blackadder II.

[@handsomeivan1980]

Have you come across any modern AK variant prototypes? Such as a early Ratnik AK-12? Or something weird like a PP90? I'm specifically asking for modern Russian weapons because you only have I believe 1 video with the AN94, trust me we make some interesting guns over here

[@TheFlicky0069]

If someone made a reproduction centerfire version of this gun, I’d be interested in buying it tbh

[@RichieRichOverdrive]

Exactly. This really looks like a nice handling weapon. Could be nice in .44mag.

[@jamesslick4790]

IDK, I see lotsa brass. Immediately like it!

[@gemista]

*clears throat* P. Percy's Prototype Patent Pending Pinfire Pocket Pistol Propels Puny, Powerful Projectiles, Penetrating Potential Predators and Prey, Protecting P. Percy from Potentially Pursuing Promiscuous Prominent Politicians with Prudence and Precision. That's 26 P's. (thanks to Slemke 98 for the idea)

[@MrSquigglies]

Well, it makes a certain amount of sense, you can keep the gun loaded and uncocked, and if you have it drawn on a Target you can cock it without breaking your sight picture.

[@matt-kv1nu]

this thing was probably made by some goof in 1994

[@henrylorin6848]

This same rifle just sold in another auction in March for $1,900.00-- so if you want to buy it, be prepared to bid more than that amount (plus auction premium.) Very cool rifle !

[@kmoecub]

Flipping an auction-bought item via auction doesn't always work out. In fact it's often a harsh way to find out that you overpaid for something.

[@kevingambrell]

Now that is interesting! Many years ago I can remember looking through an old gun magazine and seeing something that if memory serves looked much the same. I have no idea what magazine but im almost certain it was an English publication. If you find out any more will you do a follow up? Thank you.

[@kayvalencia2223]

All I can think about...is the fact is since the barrel has rifling...you could theoretically put a crescent wrench on it and screw it onto...something

[@rogerramiussergeialexander5541]

Sounds like somebody played with too many Legos as a kid. I approve.

[@sgtsaltstick2729]

Geez i thought this thing was like a one of them shotguns with two seperate hammers.

[@CraigLYoung]

This is why I support this channel. So cool!

[@bgurtek]

This looks like it is perhaps the prototype for the Frank Wesson rifle. The locking and extraction design, anyway.

[@JackedRado71]

Good morning Ian!

[@Picolinni]

That actually looks like a cool beginning of a survival rifle.

[@j.michaeljefferson60]

When in a hurry to get the gun to a prospective buyers you just have to get a working gun to let them know what the gun looks like and what it can do , so you can sell the gun and do the finishing touches on it later at your convenience

[@vattmann1387]

Neat, it's a pipe-rife from the Fallout series.

[@honkeykong85]

Dave Watson in think I popped butch with this when he tried fuckin with my sweet rolls.

[@jarink1]

I feel "triggered".

[@juangonzalez9848]

That trigger group looks like something I could make at home with minimal power tools. Like a dremel might be overkill to make that thing.

[@LeminskiTankscor]

It's pretty cool though, you have to admit

[@bazz2438]

Hey Ian, head back up to Canada and check out our only commercially available .50bmg rifle! The GM6 LYNX, bullpup antimaterial rifle.

[@TheOdst219]

Ohh brass.

[@MILITARY-TUBE]

Three triggers and vintage look. I like it :)

[@Khanclansith]

No I have to make an interesting prototype rifle, out minimal markings on it and carve a hamster on the inside of the side wall. That way decades from now someone can open it up and ask "why is there a carving of a hamster in here? I don't know..."

[@rykerbragg]

I have a gun suggestion for you. Only a few videos on KZbin show it, and it's in very few video games, and no one really knows what it is. What I'm talking about, is the Z-M Weapons LR300. It looks like an M4 but it was actually meant to be an improvement of it. It has an iconic folding and/or collapseable stock. I don't know if you take "suggestions" but it would still be really cool to see it on your channel. I hope you read this.

[@johnpershing5723]

To my modestly trained eye, this rifle has a marksman vibe to it, mid/long range trick or competition shooting. I have a couple reasons for this. 1. The set trigger-you wouldn't have a set trigger on weapons intended to make multiple fast shots. 2. The manual ejector-seems a bit primitive for a battlefield rifle, and too slow to allow for follow-up shots while hunting. That obviously wouldn't be an issue to a competitive marksman of the late 19th Century. 3. The heavily curved buttplate-we stole the schuetzen (sp?) buttplate from the Swiss, and it was a feature commonly seen on marksman rifles of the time. 4. The lack of a handguard/forestock-black powder heats up a barrel pretty damn quickly when shooting large volumes. A handguard is almost a necessity for a battlefield rifle. The Henry lacked one, due to the limitations of the action. As soon as one could be applied, however, it was. This break-action obviously wouldn't have the same limitation. A marksman likely wouldn't be shooting with enough frequency to heat the barrel to a significant degree.

[@nicolatesla9429]

1:09 The first 'A' in Albany looks different from the second. It looks more like a upside down 'V'. Nice unusual looking rifle, too bad there isn't more information available.

[@marinecor23]

His full name is Percival Fredrickstein Von Mussel De Rollo the Third.

[@Lazarus7000]

I love the contrast of the clever, precise unitized lockwork and the housing that looks like it was machined by using a trained beaver that's been given Bolivian Marching Powder...

[@observed00]

I looked through some of my books and I couldn't find a similar set trigger design. Though I imagine if I had a referance for muzzleloader era locks, I'd see that this isn't a novel trigger. It is a sideplate type lock, obviously.

[@madmoff]

Alliterative puns aside, this really is an interesting rifle. Yes, the inside is cruder than all get out, but how often is someone really going to be looking inside of the thing? As a single-shot, break-action rifle in what could possibly be a pistol caliber, there's really not a whole lot that can go wrong with it. The trigger mechanism is deceptively simple and looks like it simply drops in with minimal fuss about it. All said, a really interesting rifle.

[@charles_wipman]

I like that mechanism, simple but strong and aparently reliable; but the external shape of that gun... remind me of the WWI crutches.

[@negiandtoast8839]

It looked to me as if the name said "Ppersy albeny " However I personaly think it said "Ppersy albe N.Y." Essentially my hypothesis is that there last name may be Albe not Albeny. Look at the markings at 1:03.

[@RobsRacingMotoVLOG]

I rather like that. I could almost see the crude chiseling as a selling point. You don't need a precision heavy receiver to have a functioning firearm, just the self contained, modular, trigger mechanism needs to be precise. Cost savings proof of concept. As always, thanks for sharing.

[@robertcainjr.7627]

How many of the 13 dislikes are real people? Why would you watch if you don’t like the content? This isn’t a political channel. It’s a firearm enthusiast and historians channel! Odd there are usually around 13 dislikes? Ian you are a tru historian and thanks for the information!

[@asteroidrules]

Pulls off sideplate only to discover the gun is wearing a second, smaller sideplate underneath.

[@agoogleaccount2861]

That. Brass part was made without a milling machine ..it was chiseled out. Could you imagine this gun made today in a modern caliber perhaps.. .44 magnum ? . what a great sporting rifle

[@Jesses001]

Hey I like that latch. Very simple. I think I might incorporate that into a design I am working on. Trying to make a very low production cost hunting rifle. Interesting trigger system.

[@GetsugaTensho85]

A bit overcomplicated for a single shot rifle.

[@calvingreene90]

Where?

[@hochimane6535]

Percy Percy

[@alfulton5946]

I would like to build my own shotguns and rifles. I want to start with a simple single shot .22 and a single shot 410 or 12 gauge.

[@51WCDodge]

A trigger for every P.

[@Ammothief41]

Hand chiselled. How about that, pretty neat. No die grinders or milling machines for p percy.

[@Blade40688]

I couldn’t help but think of Percy from Critical Role Campaign 1 when I saw the thumbnail and title. I wouldn’t put it past Ian to meme the shit out of us

[@normanchodrick2630]

So I am going to ask why didn't armies looking for repeaters not go with slide actions? Dead simple, as strong as anything and very nearly as fast as semi-autos?

[@LN997-i8x]

That stock is interesting, it appears to be assembled with a central tang that the wood panels are screwed into, kind of like a knife!

[@KageMinowara]

A prototype rifle a day keeps the Slow Creeping Madness of Quarantine away.

[@sthenzel]

I wouldn´t call that a set trigger, just a normal trigger with a trigger-shaped cocking piece. A real set trigger (german with two levers) requires the hammer to be cocked first, the rear trigger then sets the lock to be fired by the front trigger. So with a real set trigger this rifle would´ve four "triggers"

[@caeserromero3013]

3 triggers, thst wont confuse the grunts! I can imagine a surprised sentry panicking and pulling on the ejector trigger...

[@MainAvel]

Poor man's set trigger rifle? That thing *does* look really simplified.

[@gemista]

P. Percy has no reason to worry! We, too, have an affinity for the letter 'P' and superfluous triggers!