P0300 case study: Chrysler 3.8 (SI Ep 5.3)

[@arciefan]

You typed in at the end , "cases like this really humble you and make this job quite exciting". What sets you apart is that you are humble and always excited to learn and to share. It's easy to spot the "know it all types" . In fact a "know it all" never would have typed that in. Great job !

[@baxrok2.]

Well done as always sir. Watching you ponder the evidence made me do the same. In the beginning I was thinking, "okay, check this then check that..." Lesson here is, stop and think, don't just do, do, do. I love misfire case studies, so you can't over do it as far as I'm concerned. They always seem interesting. Thanks Ivan!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Ha I have a few more misfire case studies up my sleeve for you then ;)

[@coollasice4175]

Yes. Misfire videos are good.

[@wyattoneable]

I sure do enjoy the videos Ivan. Your skills are impressive and sharing your process helps me understand and learn. I really appreciate your time spent with us.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I really appreciate the feedback! If only there was time to record all the case studies...but working under time constraints often makes for more epic "real-time" videos haha

[@andrewwmacfadyen6958]

Ivan you are clever and resourceful and not afraid to tackle anything with an engine.- respect :-)

[@lrdisco2005]

It's a joy to watch, there are plenty of mechanics who wished they knew Ivan, or lived near him.

[@graymodeler]

When spark plugs had copper gaskets, you could feel them tighten. The new ones have an angle seat like a valve. Once they are bottomed, you go about 1/16 more turn. The package spells this out. I have changed the plugs in my T&Country twice and they are pretty easy since they angle towards your hand on the rear.

[@roadkill5333]

I had a WIERD one, once! Was an 88 S-10 Blazer 2.8l. I put in a reman engine, and all new plugs wires cap rotor, the works, about a year earlier. Ran like a top, until one day it died. Had it towed home, and found the P.C.M. fuse blown (took me a little while). Replaced the fuse, started it up and ran fine, until I put it under a pretty decent load. Pow, blown fuse! Took me a couple days of checking to find the problem. Just after dark, I had my wife run it in gear, foot on brake and mashing the gas. I pulled the hood up just far enough to see in the bay. I found one plug wire, jump spark from the 90 degree boot, on top of the Dist cap, about 2-3 inches to the windshield washer hose, about 18 inches down that until about a 2-3 inch spark jumped onto the brake booster. When it first happened, she felt the fish bite, and released the gas, it went away. I told her to maintain when she felt it. The next time, she held on for about 10 seconds, and it popped the PCM fuse again. Weirdest thing I ever saw. I replaced the wire, and the problem went away.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

wow would love to explain that one!

[@roadkill5333]

motoYam82 well, looking back, I put the cheapest wires on it. So, likely a high resistance crappy wire, that burned thru looking for a ground. But for the spark to jump 2-3 inches, follow a rubber hose 18 inches, then jump another 2-3 inch gap to the brake booster, it wasn't just a high resistance but more than likely a broken plug wire. And since everything worked after a new set of wires (I made them warranty the wires) it's the only thing it could have been. I know, maybe a bad plug, or anything was possible, but I never changed anything else, the entire time I owned that vehicle. So another 3yrs, and maybe 20-25k miles, it had to be the bad wire. I know that coil was a fire breather, for sure!! Spark ran thru all that rubber hose, and jumped 5 inches of air gap!! But it did blow the PCM fuse, when it did it! I'm just glad I didn't find that short to ground, the hard way!

[@chungaleta1234]

Great vid... an excellent lesson on never missing the obvious and never assuming that new is good. You were told plugs were new and still you went for them, great!!!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Honestly I ran out of options lol

[@denniswilkinson1118]

Great detective work, you always find the problem. another great video, THANKS!

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

Nice diagnostics Ivan! The power of the scope to verify processed data but 3 cracked spark plugs on the same bank is a first!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Hey don't give it away lol!

[@martincortezortiz9064]

Thanks for sharing. Sparking plugs on cross mounted engines are a pain. Hell, any work on those engines is a pain. Some shops will not change the back plugs because of the hassle it is to get access. The test you run help limit the experimental fixes and almost makes the repair a sure hit. This makes the hassle worth the work because you are pretty sure this will solve the problem.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yes exactly Martin!

[@wysetech2000]

Awesome job, Ivan. I have seen cracked spark plugs before but never with a waveform quite like that.

[@SuperGmann10]

As Eric O would say, "There's your problem, lady!" Well done! :)

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I was tempted to bust out that line haha

[@SuperGmann10]

motoYam82 You should have! That would have bee hilarious! Lol!

[@SteveRobReviews]

Chasing down someone else's known good work is frustrating. Nice one Ivan....

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

lol Steve if someone tells you "I already changed the plugs, the wires, the ignition coil...and the computer"...where would you start?

[@nathanielreid4967]

From the beginning. lol

[@upallnight888]

I would tell him he needs a new engine. LOL

[@markryl-kuchar2373]

Props to you anyway, the rear bank of plugs on these vans are a pain to get at, I would be worried I didn't tighten them enough and then proceed to do what you showed at the end of the video.

[@Thunderroad8517]

Great job Ivan.. I will add this one to the tool box for sure. thanks for your time and videos.

[@emtscythe3782]

Nice....I too was looking at that spark line saying " what that hell?" Great find. Were they all 3 cracked or just # 3. I have learned never to trust someone's " I've already changed....." just leads to headaches and lost time. I learn something new from you every video Ivan.

[@fixitman8028]

Nice job ! Thanks for posting. Love your teaching skills. If you wouldn’t mind please explain scope set up quickly for those of us still learning. I would really appreciate it. For example time base, voltage setting and peak detection or filter. Just a 1 minute explanation would really help. Thanks again

[@BADD400]

I guessed that one right. Good job Ivan.

[@nathanrspain]

I really enjoy these case study/auto detective videos.

[@alaautotonics4403]

Great Channel and Diagnostics , I learned a lot from your videos Thanks a lot bro.

[@prmayner]

chalk up another known bad secondary waveform pattern and cause, good job Ivan.

[@kasapis6]

great work love your videos to make easier to analyze ignition system using a scope . draw a line in the middle on the spark line and everything that you see on the right of the line is happening in the combustion chamber so is you see a big jump at the end of the line you know its in the combustion chamber the cylinder run out of hydrocarbons ( lean miss fire ) and everything you see to the left of the line will be outside of the Combustion ( leads coil carbon tracking spark plug ) it work every time and make analyze the ignition system a lot easier give it a go next time you use your scope and let me know how it went keep up all the great work you do all the best my friend

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I think I have seen this trick somewhere before but forget where...

[@trainer2018]

motoYam82 Jim Morton teaches this method Ivan. Go to the TST KZbin page and it is on that channel. Question for you. I couldn't tell on the scope how the others compared. On the bad no3 cylinder did the current start to flow through the plug at a higher kv than the others?

[@GlycerinZ]

Yuuup I had a very similar issue happen in my Trans Am. P0300, found two loose spark plugs on bank 2. Tightened them up and then got a P0306. Started to unscrew spark plug #6 and chunks of porcelain started falling off the plug. Bought a new plug, installed, and no more CEL.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

win.

[@02lowrider62]

I was looking at that pattern too and I was like what the hell is that it didn't look like a lean miss, and I didn't think a coil on all three ! So where all three cracked like that one. Good find

[@cortneyjeffrey4803]

Great job Ivan. Really enjoying your videos. Would be great to see more of the pico

[@fieldsofomagh]

Torque on spark plug 40nM plus or minus 150nM. Counters on the money. Bring back the torque wrench-to be certain !!

[@rrmech11]

Hey Ivan Great job 😎😎😎

[@davesministry7789]

Good job,stuck with it to the end. Keep going.

[@gbowne1]

Subtle reminder to check the condition of your plugs and not to overstress them on installation.

[@madmike214]

Weird! Had this today! Even had the same oil sensor code! Haven't figured it out yet but i found new plugs in #4 and #6 that are gapped at .073 and a broken main harness under throttled body, i think this is another issue...terminals have crapy drag and the harness can be unplugged with an easy shake. #2 plug is locked up in the head...didn't want to remove it for fear off thread damage . Ran out of time to check the plugs in the back. I was getting similar waveforms from the vantage pro, but i really couldn't get a good capture to review....not a fan of the tools playback features lol.

[@CRAZY_VIDS07]

hell of a find without doing any part swap. ...

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

yeah I just removed the bad part xD

[@WizzRacing]

This happens a lot with them Champion plugs... I just had one today. Three of them cracked right down the middle...And one broken plug wire at the coil. It come right out of the boot in two pieces..

[@NewLevelAuto]

Remember folks , when Ivan hit his 10k subscriber mark he will be having a special pool party video. All Russian women in tiny bikinis . So refer someone !

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Is there a good pool party venue on Staten Island? It's going to be the hot tub Christmas special hahaha

[@baxrok2.]

Hey now, Ivan is a happily married man. But then I guess that explains why he's asking about parties on Staten Island! lol

[@TheDisgruntledMechanic]

And the best part is everyone is invited all 10000 subscribers! Better than ETCG meetup!

[@grawey77]

The wiper assembly removes fairly easily on the 2001 through 2007 vans and then the rear plugs and upstream O2 sensor are easy to get at. If you have small long arms you may be able to do this without removing the wiper assembly easily.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I'll take the long arms option.

[@grawey77]

Well I have 2 of these vans and my arms are to bulky to do that. I did see someone change a rear valve cover on one of these without removing the assembly or at least the upper plenum so if there is a will there is a way.

[@jtnm1746]

hey ivan ...haha wow ur awesome..very sharp....keep them vids coming...

[@1quickchevy2]

Great find & trouble shooting.

[@marcodeluca4068]

So is this the misfire ??? on all the plugs or just on #1??

[@ziggassedup]

A miss under load is usually a plug or lead and most often a plug...Now would some dielectric grease have fixed it or is the issue in the plug lead boot.?..Ethanol kills "shorts" plugs and the ZAP has to go somewhere until it feeds back and knocks out the coil..Seen it back when ignition was points and then when they advanced to electronic modules and now coil packs..same old same..I'm not sure how much time it took to diagnose it but I'd have gone straight for the plugs...Just 'cos they look ok means nothing with the fuel around today...Just sayin'

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Would dielectric grease fix a cracked porcelain insulator? I've never seen Ethanol "short" a plug out either... Sounds like a good episode for Mythbusters lol ;)

[@ziggassedup]

That's a great idea...lol

[@feeneysmechanical6215]

Any pending egr codes?

[@binnsh]

Sun looks to be getting pretty low, time for a cocktail. Good Sherlocking!

[@NewLevelAuto]

I believe we finished at 1 a.m. that day

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I have video evidence In episode 5.13 haha

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

I do the same & that's when you know you are doing what you love to do!

[@35milesperhour94]

Apparently, any comments that include links are getting blocked, so I will post the part number: Stylus, VERUS®, Nylon, Black, 3-pack Item: 3-06206A01 21.99 USD

[@feeneysmechanical6215]

Great video Ivan

[@R.E.HILL_]

How did this affect the other two? or the reading of the other two to be more exact? thx for sharing.

[@andrewwmacfadyen6958]

Probable cause was using a spark plug socket with a rubber insert, it is very easy to crack the ceramic with these. I always trained my guys to hook the rubber out and throw it away if buying a spark plug socket buy the magnetic type.

[@Eastahtata]

Good tip, I'll have to pick up some of those magnetic ones.

[@rhkips]

I was sort of thinking you had a leakage path somewhere! That waveform is fairly characteristic of a high voltage pushing its way through to ground where it shouldn't be. It takes a certain amount of energy to break the barrier (high point), then some of the energy "bleeds off" and the voltage drops, until more energy builds up, and you get that random messy oscillation without a super-high kV reading. :)

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Really? I've never seen a waveform like this. If the spark finds a path to ground, it should still look like a normal spark line!

[@rhkips]

motoYam82 I've seen it once before. My thinking is that it's such a small fracture that the spark isn't able to make a reliable path to ground. It may even be jumping back and forth between the in-cylinder gap and the fracture on the ceramic shell. You said that you really had to power-brake the vehicle to get it to misfire, and it was only a fishbite most of the time. That tells me the insulator integrity is still somewhat viable, and it's taking a great deal of pressure inside the cylinder to force the spark through an alternate path. The erratic fluctuation of the spark line on the scope is likely the result of the spark changing paths several times through the firing event. Who knows, I could be way off-base with this thinking, but it's the only way I can make sense of it. Arc-discharge paths are a very convoluted thing; just go looking for videos of lightning filmed in high-speed! Arcs do weird things under atmospheric load. :]

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Ah I like that theory of the spark changing paths several times. At least it's cool to imagine it happening :)

[@ورشةمهديلفحصوبرمجةوصيانةالسيار]

good

[@johnchristopherson2718]

Was it installed with an air ratchet? , also did you happen to hear the spark snapping?

[@Super032208]

@motoYam82 that was a really weird waveform.

[@rusco321]

How do explain three separate cylinders misfiring due to one bad spark plug?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Simple: THREE bad spark plugs haha

[@troutjunkie7330]

You said " thats what Keith teaches us". Does ha have a website or KZbin channel?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

He's way too busy for that...right Keith? He is by no exaggeration the most efficient diagnostician that I know of...averaging like 20 cars A DAY!! I felt pretty beat up after 5 in a row lol

[@haywardsautomotive6156]

20 cars is indeed impressive and Eric and you say the same thing about Kieth's diagnostic skills which makes it even more impressive!!

[@troutjunkie7330]

Just fallow him and record videos all day long. 500K subs in 6 months, split the $$ for the next 10 years as the views keep on going.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Now why didn't we think of that? ;)

[@NewLevelAuto]

I personally think that they are both being way too kind

[@mattway3496]

So were all three plugs cracked? What caused the misfires on the other cylinders?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Correct, all three plugs on the rear bank were cracked lol

[@mattway3496]

Wow. I figured for sure someone just changed the front bank. Tricky one.

[@dylankinch2735]

wish i had u here for an hour or so to check out this 2005 toyota tundra ive been trying to figure out. its running extremely rich. fule pressure is in spec. brand new maf sensor. injector balance test was good. upstream afr sensors seem to test out just fine and are very responsive. i just cant figure it out. very humbling. fuel trims are like -39 long term -18 short on average. brand new air filter as well. any ideas would be great. i love your channel and appreciate all the vids. i learn alot from u bro. loved the russian series.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Rich on both banks? How are the fuel trims if you unplug the MAF?

[@dylankinch2735]

Both banks. And when i unpug the maf they stay about the same. They improve under higher rpms

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

What are the downstream O2s showing?

[@dylankinch2735]

downstream o2 stay at about .766 volts on both of them. pretty steady. im not a tech just a diy guy but i love this stuff and im trying my best to soak up all the info i can from techs like yourself. im not 100percent sure on the downstreams but i think thats around where they r suposed to read right? i may be way off on that.

[@dylankinch2735]

upstreams are afr sensors and they are at about 3.6 volts on 1 bank and 3.3 volts on 2 bank

[@blanktank]

What's a power break test?

[@volvo09]

blanktank with an auto you hold the brake and give it some gas so you can put a load on the engine. also referred to as "brake torqueing" by some. it's kind of going away as some new cars will tend to return to idle with brake input.

[@richfurber958]

Always good info, love your vids. Can we view Keith on the web?

[@aussiebloke609]

Were all 3 spark plugs cracked, or was that only cylinder #3?

[@grizzlydan8]

I was wondering the same thing. Can anybody answer our question?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Based on the evidence presented in the video, what do YOU think?

[@aussiebloke609]

I _think_ all three, since all three cylinders were missing...but since cylinder 3 was missing much worse than #1 or #5, and I'm not that familiar with modern engines (I still prefer working with points and condensers), I'm not sure what sort of feedback issues you could get when everything is electronically interconnected.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yup all three rear plugs were over-tightened and cracked. No magic interconnection here :)

[@aussiebloke609]

Whew. I almost worked up a sweat on that one. Think I'll stick with carburettors and points from now on. :-P

[@reweydewy]

great video

[@jairosendsit8667]

I had one come in same year make model someone dropped the plug and the tip was on the tip

[@sbautofix8376]

thanks for the video bro

[@dezblyan5125]

changed plugs and wires and it runs good i ckear tge codes its good for cup days then comes back on

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

You need to narrow down which cylinder(s) are the culprits

[@dezblyan5125]

Ok sounds good

[@dezblyan5125]

Didnt over tork my plugs i wonder if just s spec of dirt on plug can cause misfire

[@dezblyan5125]

my van random misfire too can't for the life of me figure it out

[@Pablo_Automotive]

Really nice =)

[@michaelkane732]

you u a genius! i like motorcraft

[@paulbarnes1936]

I got one for you.. crank no start condition .u can come help me with it

[@crystalscan2002]

well its dodge? what do you expect

[@michaelkane732]

CHAMPION PLUGS ARE JUNK

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Still better than Motorcraft :P

[@carslover3509]

hhhhhh sweet

[@glenharper3136]

2% of all new electrical product don't good!

[@NewLevelAuto]

I would say that statistic is way under the reality of the number . There is no quality control any longer . Not even with OEM parts

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

N. E. W. is the new standard for quality.