Paedophile Hunter: I Expose Predators On Live Stream | Ask The Mask | Channel 4 Documentaries

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Channel 4 Documentaries

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@Channel4Documentaries
@Channel4Documentaries 6 ай бұрын
Watch next… ASK THE MASK: ‘I’M A PAEDOPHILE, NOT A MOLSETER’: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4bIqad7qKh9mM0
@Mlo-tn9yr
@Mlo-tn9yr 6 ай бұрын
I was a victim of abuse online i am so glad these hunters exist i never want another child to go through what i did.
@hatetheusername
@hatetheusername 6 ай бұрын
i'm so sorry that happened to you :( i hope you're doing okay and are healing. some people are so evil. someone in my area got caught in a sting last week :( has a wife and 2 kids (that go to the same primary school i went to). thankfully he has been arrested and will end up in prison where he belongs.
@ramonagreen7197
@ramonagreen7197 6 ай бұрын
I'm sorry to hear that. I was born in 1980 so my abuse didn't involve the Internet but both are horrific and life changing 😢 Sending you love and prayers ❤️ 🙏
@twistedelegance_
@twistedelegance_ 4 ай бұрын
As was I but I would never trust people with masks hunting pedos for views. They're not professionals nor authority.
@iloveladybugs123
@iloveladybugs123 4 ай бұрын
So sorry to hear this, hope you are healing we need to do better for our children
@glennjackson100
@glennjackson100 6 ай бұрын
That handing an alcoholic a drink line isn't a good course of questioning. These 'hunters' begin in the 'chatrooms' . If the alcoholic is in a bar, then they aren't trying to overcome thier obsession
@Aemirys
@Aemirys 6 ай бұрын
This was far too sympathetic to people who violate children!! Do they need help? Yes 100% but drop this nicey niceness about PEOPLE WHO VIOLATE CHILDREN!!
@moffat5914
@moffat5914 6 ай бұрын
why are they all looking at him likes he's the weird one for catching kiddie fiddlers
@CEO786
@CEO786 6 ай бұрын
He’s a part of the criminals
@adz4301
@adz4301 6 ай бұрын
Cause he’s wearing that stupid pig thing… why didn’t they just give him a Bally.
@MariamaDiallo-fj6ow
@MariamaDiallo-fj6ow 6 ай бұрын
Like I swear the gay dude may be a pedo- like he's more concerned about the pedos then he is about the children being saved. I'm not surprised he understands bug chasers
@sugarsundae3400
@sugarsundae3400 5 ай бұрын
He's self appointed we don't know who is he or his criminal history or motives for doing this.
@ArranVid
@ArranVid 2 ай бұрын
Maybe the mask is scary.
@kris1976melo
@kris1976melo 6 ай бұрын
Guy glasses seem more upset they are getting caught 😂😂😂😂😂
@Xantiiiii1
@Xantiiiii1 5 ай бұрын
Prob a pedo himself asking such stupid questions and trying to 'safe guard' pedos. The whole panel should speak to a survivor and see if such grace should be given to predators. Got their priorities all wrong its shameful.
@grantphilip37
@grantphilip37 5 ай бұрын
with his teddy bear hoody on!!
@ShotThroughKarl
@ShotThroughKarl 6 ай бұрын
Did she just compare an alcoholic to a peado? What an absolute whopper.
@danielcunningham6727
@danielcunningham6727 6 ай бұрын
She's most likely part of the alphabet gang
@RahAndMe
@RahAndMe 6 ай бұрын
not you, but they are just fucking victim blamers, i dislike that mentality
@peterdonnelly6804
@peterdonnelly6804 6 ай бұрын
No she seems be making an analogy about addiction and temptation being presented to them.
@dianehall2248
@dianehall2248 6 ай бұрын
The two are not as different as you might think. Paedophiles cannot control their desires for children, and don't choose to have them. However, they obviously can control whether or not they seek out children for abuse. They had an interview with a "virtuous paedophile" which was quite illuminating, and it was clear for that man it was like a curse.
@Matthew-bu7fg
@Matthew-bu7fg 6 ай бұрын
alcohol use disorder is an illness/disorder paedophilia is an illness/disorder So in that sense they are comparable Comparing alcohol use disorder to child abuse however is a completely different matter
@swindle2345
@swindle2345 6 ай бұрын
More sympathy for the actual pedo in that other episode than they did for the guy catching them…
@theashwoodfaerie2
@theashwoodfaerie2 4 ай бұрын
I know it's freaking weird
@LiquidBreath518
@LiquidBreath518 4 ай бұрын
Beret guy seems very weirdly like hes sliding towards protecting kiddie fiddlers. I'd watch out for him
@Asia.Persuasia
@Asia.Persuasia 6 ай бұрын
"Pig Guy" is doing virtuous work. Regardless of the disgusting rationalisations and empathy being shown towards "PDF files" by the panel (eye-roll), I hope he continues exposing the preds.
@emmas9928
@emmas9928 6 ай бұрын
Co sign. Well said.
@pebbles4715
@pebbles4715 6 ай бұрын
Maybe live streaming it does act as some sort of deterrent. The vast majority of ped’s are only sorry when they get caught. Children don’t get a choice, hence the age of consent, so many victims are burdened for the rest of their lives. There is no treatment for a predilection. However, looking at preventative measures, therapies etc; should be researched further.
@NewAgeBarbarian
@NewAgeBarbarian 6 ай бұрын
Also they can't falsely accuse them of assault etc. Basically it's a citizens arrest till police arrive.
@pebbles4715
@pebbles4715 6 ай бұрын
@@NewAgeBarbarian yes that’s a very good point.
@dianehall2248
@dianehall2248 6 ай бұрын
I wouldn't live-stream it, though. I would film it and then reserve dispensing the film online after more facts about the case are available. This gives you more control over the situation and what you show the public.
@imsoreetodddid9007
@imsoreetodddid9007 6 ай бұрын
The age of consent isn't based on human biology however, it's based on an arbitrary legal definition of an adult even though they're perfectly happy charging people way under 18 as adults as though they magically gained the capacity of an adult by committing a serious enough crime.
@tangoalpha1905
@tangoalpha1905 6 ай бұрын
*Children do get a choice, when Doctors Dictate they can Choose to be penetrated with big syringes and have toxic-cocktails of bio-med industry vaccine love-juice injected deep inside of them, or undergo other medical procedures that generate revenue for Doctors, because Consent Laws have absolutely nothing to do with anything but using children to maximise revenue for technocrats.* Fun fact: since 1875 consent laws have been used to Literally Genocide the families of British children. *Only Psychopaths could spin the narrative that, in order to Protect children, the Gov must Genocide their families.* Thank God it's actually Gov that owns most children and they try so hard to leave no child behind. Once upon a time, children were literally free to sell their own behinds for the highest price... then Gov realised it could use monopolised violence to rapaciously harvest maximum tax from each child's life-cycle... *Forcibly, Against their will...* by dictating most children are Literally Gov Property before selling them in bulk to companies both foreign and domestic... while public-sector apparatchiks with their NGO/charity child-trader co-conspirators act as "Agents"... facilitating sales and collecting the profit that previously went directly into each child's pocket. Gov then uses the stolen resources to restrict free speech, free association, free agency and generally further impose monopolised violence upon those victims... *Just Like Every Other Plantation In History.* How virtuous. *Revelation: contrary to Common fallacies, the Plantation Slavery business model is Literally the Most profitable business model known to man...* as Western elites know So well. All Hail le Supreme virtue of Western Command Plantation-Slave Economies... where thou art Free... to enrich Gov. *So Virtuous.*
@bummer7736
@bummer7736 6 ай бұрын
A real life superhero.
@mikedalt3622
@mikedalt3622 6 ай бұрын
Sounds like cocko what an absolute legend of a man. Fully support stings and every team that does them.
@chelseadawestie3190
@chelseadawestie3190 2 ай бұрын
Omg, it does sound like him. He's up there with the best hunters.
@littlephoot6931
@littlephoot6931 5 ай бұрын
I'm sorry but this isn't like shaming someone who stole a parcel off someone's doorstep or smashed someone's window, these are people hiding in society as Joe blogs who prey on children for their se>
@oliviawood3976
@oliviawood3976 5 ай бұрын
Totally agree I wish the pedo that did what they did to me had been caught and live stream when I was young they did get outed finally on one of these stings last year but the police did nothing I'm 29 this year I was 14 at the time and all the adults knew the high-school I attended knew my own mum knew but noone helped me took my innocence away. Took something from me ill never get back. Makes me mad the reactions from the panel can tell they have never gone through anything.
@littlephoot6931
@littlephoot6931 5 ай бұрын
@@oliviawood3976 bless your heart Olivia ♡ I don't know what to say other than hang in there darling xx
@fnansjy456
@fnansjy456 6 ай бұрын
He dropped this 👑
@ASJA82
@ASJA82 6 ай бұрын
Macklemore asking a lot of questions…
@moffat5914
@moffat5914 6 ай бұрын
he needs his computer checked
@Scarlettvoid
@Scarlettvoid 6 ай бұрын
Cause he's a nonce
@ginahawkins1928
@ginahawkins1928 5 ай бұрын
We need more people like him in the world. Thank you for keeping the children safe
@roha1l
@roha1l 6 ай бұрын
Not all heroes wear capes 👏🏽
@valkyriebarber1618
@valkyriebarber1618 6 ай бұрын
Do they have kids!? Have they ever been abused!? Too WOKE 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
@TongPo11
@TongPo11 6 ай бұрын
The black woman was the only normal 1 out the 3
@rileylagerstrom9843
@rileylagerstrom9843 6 ай бұрын
@@TongPo11seriously, the only person who wasn’t like “well you could mess up an innocent persons life” like no they can’t they only go after ppl that try and pickup their decoy accounts
@DD-cg1tm
@DD-cg1tm 6 ай бұрын
Yoire right,but the word woke is useless
@becksford589
@becksford589 5 ай бұрын
​@TongPo11 No, the other woman with the short blue/blonde hair and tattoos has 1 child. She spoke about her daughter in the other asking the mask episode they showed.
@intrepidgaz
@intrepidgaz 2 ай бұрын
Why is cap guy so concerned about "margins of error"? Hero explains that they have never been incorrect, with 0% errors. Now, shall we apply these same impossible standards to the English justice system, which certainly does not have 0% errors?
@airspeed_alive
@airspeed_alive 2 ай бұрын
His group, tbh I follow these a lot, and know of at least 6 cases, ome time it was even a 14 yo that turned up, he was just trying to get laid and was bombarded on by adults who was insisting he was 26, it was live streamed.
@kyner455
@kyner455 Ай бұрын
Like handing an alcoholic a drink???? Fuck me, so many thing wrong with that question. If an alcoholic chooses to drink, they are not stripping an innocent child of their everything....
@gucioturek3047
@gucioturek3047 2 ай бұрын
I like how they treat the hunter like a war criminal but the actual pedo in another episode like an alcoholic. the guy in the beenie propably is scared that he will catch him too
@thesimple1818
@thesimple1818 10 күн бұрын
The hat guy wanted to know the bait questions so bad so he could avoid them😒
@saffronmorris9844
@saffronmorris9844 Ай бұрын
Weird vibes off the glasses guy, why does he look so uncomfortable?
@michelekowalewski7699
@michelekowalewski7699 2 ай бұрын
The dude with the hat is totally speaking like he's a predator
@jamesprynne1422
@jamesprynne1422 6 ай бұрын
Love the mask straight up manhunt vibes from the glory days of rockstar. Pigsy forever
@Neardarkphotography
@Neardarkphotography 6 ай бұрын
I will tell you the reason why they live stream it. Right or wrong it's because there's people that follow the page that want to see these people get caught live. Alot of them are survivors and maybe their predator got away with it and they like seeing people being brought to justice. I think people forget about the reality of people that actually don't get caught. The victim is broken for life and the predator just gets to go on to the next one.
@heihvyegs
@heihvyegs 6 ай бұрын
Tbh most people who watch are not watching because they are victims themselves Some will be. But mostly from the people I’ve spoken to it’s just ‘casuals’ (for lack of better word)
@tangoalpha1905
@tangoalpha1905 6 ай бұрын
Victims are broken for life? Fun fact: before 1875, Britain, America, Europe, literally all of human civilisation and every empire within it was built by child-brides. "Broken victims" built the most spectacularly beautiful things ever created. If they were so broken, why didn't they all simply top themselves to escape their interminable torture?
@ramonagreen7197
@ramonagreen7197 6 ай бұрын
​@heihvyegs most of the ppl in the chat on the numerous stings I watch, from over 50 different teams, are survivors like myself. It is like therapy to many of us.
@TongPo11
@TongPo11 6 ай бұрын
These 3 tick all the woke boxes
@adz4301
@adz4301 6 ай бұрын
What’s that mean
@Commsfarage
@Commsfarage 5 ай бұрын
We know what he means​@@adz4301
@DM-hx9ym
@DM-hx9ym Ай бұрын
ever woke box under the sun
@PaulDickson-yi2vw
@PaulDickson-yi2vw 5 ай бұрын
Guy eith the glasses needs his hdd checking
@craftymumonthewebb8377
@craftymumonthewebb8377 6 ай бұрын
100% agree regarding live streaming I used to be a hunter but the group caught an 18 year old clearly suffering from autism and had the mind of a 14 year old and he been chatting to a 14 year old the group put him live in front of 1000s I couldn’t agree with it so left ! If it’s a 40 year old man who knows better then fair play but that one really got to me x
@MustyUnderboob
@MustyUnderboob 5 ай бұрын
What if it's a 40 year old with the mind of a 14 year old?
@Foxiz
@Foxiz 2 ай бұрын
People who think it's immoral to "catch" Pedos can just go to a random chat forum, name themselves a girls name + an age from 8-12, and then we can ask them what they think two hours later...
@BiscoffツEditz
@BiscoffツEditz 6 ай бұрын
He's a legend! If you know you know 🙏💙💙 The work this team do up & down the UK is absolutely amazing. Child saving. So much love for this team 🙏
@chelseadawestie3190
@chelseadawestie3190 2 ай бұрын
I know 👍
@Eufeion
@Eufeion 6 ай бұрын
These 3 have no clue about the live streams. There have been many times where other groups & decoys have come forwards during the live stream with more cases & evidence against the peado
@jordangann7438
@jordangann7438 6 ай бұрын
Exactly, their far too sympathetic towards the pdf.files. they should be more sympathetic towards the victims and survivors of pdf.files who now have to battle silent battles in their heads daily for the rest of their lives and i know what I'm talking about. Sincerely a survivor.
@wolfrahmphosphoros5808
@wolfrahmphosphoros5808 6 ай бұрын
there have been cases of innocent People wrongly accused, so yah, livestreaming is wrong. regards.
@cowbearrie
@cowbearrie 4 ай бұрын
i saw another thing where if they accidentally record a preds kid or family it could go really badly for them, like their poor kid being bullied at school. i think live streaming is wrong, but releasing videos with editing to distort voices and blur faces of innocent people is fine
@JimBob-vg2og
@JimBob-vg2og 6 ай бұрын
That guy there is definitely dodgy, look at what he is wearing 😂
@TongPo11
@TongPo11 6 ай бұрын
Which guy, the one with the tats and piercings?
@Da_bear-ij9gm
@Da_bear-ij9gm 6 ай бұрын
I know right? A peach beanie while indoors?? And with those glasses???
@evergreen3573
@evergreen3573 6 ай бұрын
Honestly I approaches the stinger doing the beatings but he said that real children pictures were being donated! That is not what you do ! You get adult to submit their old pictures of them selves ! Or ai generated pictures ! That was actually disappointing to hear
@Pannadrome
@Pannadrome 6 ай бұрын
It’s also because live streaming will be sent to personal people also shedding light on if that predator has touched or groomed their own kids or a niece or nephew
@Bonita.ch1
@Bonita.ch1 6 ай бұрын
THEY NEED TO CHECK THE PANNEL 'S HARD DRIVES .
@amberm4884
@amberm4884 6 ай бұрын
They live stream for awareness. Then if the peado isnt charged, or is given anonymity then his face and behavior is already out there. Too many get let off and if the judge says the footage needs to b erased then they have already warned the people using the live stream
@jkfdkjjd
@jkfdkjjd 6 ай бұрын
Hey its one of these guys that KEEPS POSTING images on b advertising his telegram channel. How does he keep posting despite being banned multiple times a day? Why when asked to "please, can you stop posting this stuff?" doesn't he listen? I don't understand why it isn't sus that he has a flash drive full of images that JUST skirt the line between being illegal. He sure does have a lot of them!
@ramonagreen7197
@ramonagreen7197 6 ай бұрын
One of which guys? From the panel in the video? How do you know?
@sevtua
@sevtua Ай бұрын
A guy got accused in something like this. Ended up doing himself in, fuck knows if he was guilty, never made it to trial.
@AndiGomez-yu2dx
@AndiGomez-yu2dx 5 ай бұрын
I understand why they livestream it; it's a way to monetize something that ideally should be handled by the police. Since these individuals are doing it for free, I believe they deserve some form of financial compensation.
@danielcunningham6727
@danielcunningham6727 6 ай бұрын
Thanks for your service mate 🫡
@LHA8925
@LHA8925 5 ай бұрын
The state of the panel. Exactly the kinds of people I could imagine being against what he’s doing….
@germanicabosniaca4132
@germanicabosniaca4132 5 ай бұрын
This character questioning him has the wrong angle. Even at the moment when "pig" said "pedophile", he raised his eyebrows, as if it was a word that did not describe people who have a sexual urge towards children... Just sayin'
@mortuuscadaver
@mortuuscadaver 6 күн бұрын
also that guy with the teddy bear hoodie on was little suspicious and annoying, guess he was scared to be caught :P
@nulldmg27
@nulldmg27 3 ай бұрын
There's seems to way more discussion about the legality of these groups instead of the fact that they are needed in the first place
@laurajones2032
@laurajones2032 6 ай бұрын
Where can we watch the live streams. Yes they get a slap on the hand. That’s a travesty
@gsd8225
@gsd8225 6 ай бұрын
Hahahahaha, this Wokery is getting out of hand 😂
@Flavas
@Flavas 6 ай бұрын
'what is a decoy' XD naaah get this panel off
@Matthew-bu7fg
@Matthew-bu7fg 6 ай бұрын
There seems to be lots of these groups about but I feel like none quite light a flame to Stinson Hunter, the undisputed GOAT
@emilycaro888
@emilycaro888 6 ай бұрын
This interview was so cringeworthy. Who put this panel together? Very much losing touch with public sentiment here channel 4.
@scribblezgfx
@scribblezgfx 6 ай бұрын
This isn’t the Predator I wanted
@killerbee8892
@killerbee8892 5 ай бұрын
When they say what about getting the wrong person. I don’t care if they falsely accuse me, as long as they catch 100s in return. End of the day if you’re not doing anything wrong they won’t come after you. It worries me that people are against these guys at all.
@cat_terrell
@cat_terrell 6 ай бұрын
There is live safety in live streaming. Just in case. A live gang vigilante beating from streaming? Nahhhh
@cowbearrie
@cowbearrie 4 ай бұрын
i was wondering why the woman with black hair looked familiar then i realised i saw her on naked attraction lmao.
@brennanando
@brennanando Ай бұрын
Was there not a simpler mask he could have used?
@waheex
@waheex 5 ай бұрын
The 3 interviewers are dunning kruger
@Kraken2681994
@Kraken2681994 3 ай бұрын
With regard to the questions about regulation. The court decides the rules of our land. Do not concern yourself with picking holes in halting the work of good Samaritans. 👍
@brentone4507
@brentone4507 Ай бұрын
The bottle of beer wont have life long trauma from being drank. Very very very bad metaphor, and you should be ashamed for saying that, but i suspect that line was fed to you.
@Liam-jx4zb
@Liam-jx4zb 2 ай бұрын
This sounds like that hunter cocko from the c and c hunting team
@Mx.Dmg1999
@Mx.Dmg1999 4 ай бұрын
Glasses guy is some weird communities, no wonder he getting so fidgety
@dianehall2248
@dianehall2248 6 ай бұрын
Have they given that black woman the boot? LOL.
@thesimple1818
@thesimple1818 10 күн бұрын
The hat guy seems suspicious
@jimjogger306
@jimjogger306 6 ай бұрын
Ya'll in the comments are too naive for this kind of content.
@nayhardy463
@nayhardy463 5 ай бұрын
Not a chance I’m donating my kids picture fu£& thattttt
@robertotorino8862
@robertotorino8862 6 ай бұрын
My son is a lawyer, at first he told me he was not feeling right about taking on a client who was trying to groom a kid, he then got the discovery and he found it a clear case of entrapment as it went on for months, the suspect thought he was talking to a single parent then the girl told him she was 16, the case was thrown out as you can see the chat going from friendly to sinister leading to the 18 year old being lured to a cinema, They clearly are sick people in the world but you cant make law abiding citezens be tricked into breaking the law by muddying the water as thats not fair either
@ramonagreen7197
@ramonagreen7197 6 ай бұрын
That isn't what these teams do!! They say from the beginning they are 11/12/13/14/15 and it's the pedo who approaches them, they never initiate the conversation. Plus the decoy never brings up anything sexual, they act innocent, like children should be.
@lornasalvatore182
@lornasalvatore182 6 ай бұрын
Live stream gets views and reach and engagement, which thus gains them money off what they're doing
@ramonagreen7197
@ramonagreen7197 6 ай бұрын
No!!! 99% of teams don't make any money!! They make a point of saying not to donate, not to buy stars as Facebook will only make off it because they don't accept them, no adds etc.... That's an utter lie what you just said!
@TheAnalyticalObservers
@TheAnalyticalObservers 5 ай бұрын
Love how liberal Chrissie tries to rationalize it.
@Ob65
@Ob65 6 ай бұрын
Guy on the right will be next on the live streams. Very shifty.
@Scrobbles
@Scrobbles 6 ай бұрын
More judgement from the Alphabet Brigade perspective, if they were fully after everyone/thing being equal, and equally not judged, they need to add VP to their alphabet.
@Ava333yghu
@Ava333yghu 6 ай бұрын
The fact that most of the pictures used as decoys are of real-life kids and willingly handed over by the moms says a lot about the intelligence of the people supporting this nonsense... Most of these operations never result in convictions because they're not done properly. Leave police stings to actual policemen, they don't need your help.
@cat_terrell
@cat_terrell 6 ай бұрын
Most likely the photos are old pics of their kids, who no longer resemble them for any live street i.d. Calm down. He said they work with the police. They let them know. They're not going to show up, of course. So, they live stream. Thr rights given to offenders is a huge legality list. Cops cannot go against legal illegal investigation or surveillance. But, The Public CAN! KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!
@Ava333yghu
@Ava333yghu 6 ай бұрын
​@@cat_terrell If that was the case the kids could provide the pictures themselves. If it's the moms doing it it means the kids are still minors: to use a picture of your minor child, whether old or new, as bait for a predator is moronic and sick. These guys all say the police appreciate their work but if you look into it the police force highly discourages this sort of thing as it only creates problems for them. Be less gullible.
@cat_terrell
@cat_terrell 6 ай бұрын
@Ava333yghu he said he had a few police detractors. Your logic on the photos is too lame, to argue further. Why that part triggers your ignorance so much, blah blah blah....
@danielcunningham6727
@danielcunningham6727 6 ай бұрын
lol half of them are into kiddies themselves so can't expect them to do much.
@AmyMunro_BlythesInBloom
@AmyMunro_BlythesInBloom 6 ай бұрын
If you have ever watched the teams talking to these predators or read up on it properly, you would understand the gravity of the situation being far too big, and there just isn't enough police to do the work that these teams do. And if you heard the kind of thing that these beasts are saying to who they think are pre-teens, you would feel a little different about the public now taking it into their own hands to get them off the streets.
@Liam-jx4zb
@Liam-jx4zb 2 ай бұрын
Its cocko from c and c
@per-ivindmartinsen3086
@per-ivindmartinsen3086 Ай бұрын
FAKE 😂
@Joecarer
@Joecarer 6 ай бұрын
THE ASIAN WOMAN IS BEAUTIFUL.
@LaLaura-he1zf
@LaLaura-he1zf 6 ай бұрын
You must be her mother because nah
@GodLovesYou828
@GodLovesYou828 2 ай бұрын
Entrapment
@rikkivet3407
@rikkivet3407 2 ай бұрын
No because it’s you that dms the kid not them that dm you ! Don’t be a nonce simpe
@prithvibasnyat4741
@prithvibasnyat4741 5 ай бұрын
If he is so secure about whatever he is doubg right why cover the face?
@gucioturek3047
@gucioturek3047 5 ай бұрын
it's logical that people who catch pedophiles can't show their faces for their own safety
@Yngrr024
@Yngrr024 6 ай бұрын
3 incels
@Outcast569
@Outcast569 Ай бұрын
Just me or glasses guy seems like hs is pretty sympathetic to a specific group...
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