☕ Page-Turning With Your Mouth | ForScore Face Gesture

[@JSB2500]

Wow! I've spent inordinate amounts of time committing organ pieces (including many complete Bach organ works, plus Widor, Vierne, Alain, and more) to memory just so I can record them without page turn interruptions. It's clear to me that this is a game changer for organ music - online and elsewhere. Many thanks for making this very helpful video on this solution.

[@pipergj33]

This video was extremely helpful. Your explanation of the inversion button may have just saved me! Thanks so much!

[@arkangel13th]

I solved that problem by remembering every pages,it took quite effort,it's gymnastic but I can feel my music so much more!I find myself in a bubble!

[@TimothyAHelisek]

This really helped me get the face gestures to work right! THANKS!

[@MaxWalker1]

Thank you. I’ve been seeing organists using the iPad, and wasn’t certain of the software and method. So few organists have posted about it. Plenty of pianists and gig players who have the luxury of foot pedals and other contraptions, but not organists. Thanks for confirming my research. Am buying now.

[@MaxWalker1]

I’m playing my first service tomorrow using iPad ForScore. Rehearsal has gone well with it.

[@grahamf695]

This is brilliant! I spent about £80 on a pedal (obviously no use for an organist), not realising I could use facial expressions instead.

[@SoggySandwich80]

I make a lot of weird faces when I play so I’d probably set it off by accident

[@nadiagreen1185]

Oh thank you for sharing one of Forscore' feature ! I didn't know that. And your English is so clear ! May i know if you will create a video about using Forscore please ? Or someone can share a tutorial who talks about it ? I bought one but i don t know well all its possibilities. Thank you from Brussels ❤

[@markquarmby]

I have my iPad in a case and the rim around the corners is large enough to prevent the button being pressed when upside down. It’s just a standard iPad case with the magnetic and foldable cover.

[@Kupcakepa]

I was going to suggest something like and Otter Box that is hard shell and has a cover over the power button.

[@larrygates2438]

I also use ForScore and love it. However, I haven’t tried the facial recognition feature yet. Thanks of the inspiration to do so. I’ve noticed in the Tabernacle Organ broadcasts from Salt Lake City that some of the organists use the iPad Pro. It appears that they use Bluetooth finger buttons under the manuals (I’ve seen up to 3 under differing manuals) between pistons. That also might be a solution for some of us not sure of the facial recognition feature.

[@marccheban194]

This is a superb presentation!

[@LewesSingers]

Thank you Richard. That's a brilliant and honest demo - just what I was looking for. Do you have any advice for which iPad it's best to buy - does it need to be the latest version which of course if expensive?

[@beautyinsound]

Hi Nicholas! No it doesn’t need to be the latest and greatest, but I’d recommend that you get the biggest screen possible. I’d also recommend getting a iPad pencil so you can mark up your scores. Good luck 😊

[@LewesSingers]

@@beautyinsound Thanks again. I've done it! bought the iPad, should arrive tomorrow. I'll get the pencil as well and then subscribe the the Forscore. Best wishes. Nick

[@karyonemos]

Hello and thanks for the video! How well does the facial recognition respond if the iPad is placed in landscape format (viewing to pages at a time)?

[@martingravel1157]

A-Ha! So this is your secret… I was about to ask you how you turn pages on your iPad. Thanks for that vid!

[@TomPauls007]

power button problem: just apply some of those little sticky bumpers you put under things to keep them from marring the wood. Works great. Also, when using this software, make SURE you don't have Tourettes syndrome (facial ticks).

[@foxy56]

I'm so relating to this! We've been on similar journeys but I've ended up with a slightly different result. I couldn't come at the bite switches, twitches, etc, and have used the combination of Forscore and Airturn, but with a difference: any sort of pedal is a problem (eg the pedal that comes standard with Airturn), as it is yet another pedal to find amongst all the other toe studs, etc. I have replaced the pedal with a linear switch, a foot long strip, attached to the kick rail, which you activate by kicking back with your heel. You don't have to worry about accuracy, as you can kick back anywhere along the length of the strip. It works because the heel has nothing else to do. It's the most natural and instinctive thing, in fact if I'm using real sheet music I find myself kicking back instead of turning the page by hand! Have a look at a demo here kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXvbkIaagbV4icU . Loving this wonderful channel!

[@gathrigh]

My older iPad doesnt support facial gestures. I velcro'd my foot pedal upside down to the manual underside and bump it with my knee for page turns.

[@beautyinsound]

Great idea!!

[@whoitisnot]

So you need a case that you leave on while using the ipad that will keep the power button recessed. No more accidentally turning the ipad off. Many if not most will have you covered in that department. I like to keep my ipad plugged in while using it in my studio. Because of that I have it in that position almost all the time since the port is on the bottom. For the other issue, experiment with half page turns. They allow you turn the page well ahead of time without losing visibility you need so that the timing of the turn is not nearly so important. It's a simple toggle. Hope that helps if you haven't figured it out by now. Thanks for the interesting video!

[@jerrymartin79]

Great review! Definitely found this helpful (and look forward to future reviews and discussion about things organ-related in the future... :) - In particular your suggestions about inverting the response and turning the ipad upside down are not things I would have intuitively considered - great tips. Thank you! (I also was chortling out loud at Nala's commentary!)

[@MartinRosol]

I’m trying both head and mouth movements with the new 12.9 iPad Pro and I sit too far back for it to detect the movements. It works great two feet away but not farther. As a cellist, i can’t sit close enough to the iPad for it to work. Maybe they’ll eventually add a feature to apply digital zoom to the camera for greater distances.

[@IO-zz2xy]

Cut two short dowel rods and sit iPad on them, power button will not touch music rest. Cut a sliver of each so they do not roll. There, fixed it for you.

[@davidcarrero4746]

I was always wondering why wasn't your wife not turning the pages for you when you had to turn the page yourself. Now you have this tech that will help you in this. Great that you showed us how it works. Thanks. P.S. That power button should be on the side or back in a receding spot like on some phones; not on the top or bottom.

[@Cantorisalto1]

Richard - you'd think by now they'd put a chip into the console to correspond exactly note for note what you're playing at the time so your page turns exactly the right time (you'd be able to adjust this) surely that would solve the problem completely. Organ score desks will have screens built in. With a wooden traditional desk to use on top for traditional use. Surely by now they'd have something like this to solve the age old page turning conundrum ??? Richard

[@lionhellll]

Thanks for your interesting feedback !!!

[@tdrobson]

I'm glad I watched this--I use forScore almost exclusively, and I've tried the face gesture feature, but I've found that if the music rack is very high, it doesn't work at all. I hadn't thought about turning the iPad upside down. Having the switch turn the whole device off in mid-performance could be quite catastrophic however. I've found it easier to use a bluetooth pedal to turn pages. Not perfect, but more consistent than face gestures for me. But I'm going to go back and try it again with the iPad upside down. I've paid for it--I might as well experiment. Maybe the tablet could rest on a thin piece of rubber foam?

[@beautyinsound]

Once it's in place it doesn't turn off - you just need to be careful when playing it down!

[@Leisesturm]

My DW couldn't hold in her secret that an iPad is hidden somewhere in the house for my upcoming Birthday. She knows I have been keen (she is the Brit, not me) to digitize my music and end my reliance on human page turners or interrupted performances. As we all know, the usual Bluetooth page turn pedals and deskswitches don't really work for an organist. I was looking for something like a sip and puff control for wheelchairs, but this is even better. And it comes installed in the Score Display software that I would need anyway! Mr. McVeigh, I can't thank you enough. The $116+ USD for an 'Air Turn' or other Bluetooth pedal that I won't need (and can't really use anyway) will pay for many years of subscription! How many years do I really need if I am turning 65 this Sunday? Just wondering though ... if I turn the display upside down ... do I still need to use the 'invert' function to get it to work in the way that you like? < running, ducking>

[@kamczak89]

Mine would switch pages before each difficult chord!

[@wouterattheorgan]

This seems like a great thing, actually would be nice of them to make it so you can also just use your mouth by opening your mouth do it flips the page to the next one

[@ScottCDallas]

Thank you so much for your videos!!!

[@tbridge001]

As well as ForScore and the Annual Sub (which is great value, ForScore is one of the best-supported apps available), you'll need an iPad Pro, the bigger the better, which is a bit more of an investment! As for 'Reliable' - I find it too stressful to use in performance (singing) - you never know if you're going to go back, rather than forward, or leave the app altogether!

[@stevenlester2606]

Mr. McVeigh, I may be telling you something that you have already researched but Siri tells me that if you go to Settings/Display and set Auto-lock to "Never" it will keep the iPad always on. She also said that there was no way to turn the power button off but that cases were made that could prevent the button from being pushed by mistake. I'm probably once again of no help but I wanted to try anyway.

[@nickmaguire5104]

That’s a great App. Is the music at the end Thema Met Variaties? It would be great to hear that piece played in full on a separate video. 😀

[@jeffreyhoward879]

Great. But don’t you need an iPad Pro for this? I’ve just gone and bought an iPad 9th generation which isn’t a pro and doesn’t have facial recognition capabilities!! But agree that Forscore is great. I hear that if you have Airbud 3, pro or max, they have a sensor in them which responds to the turn of your head. Of course, that means you have to play with the airbuds in and that may not be convenient in a gig. I’d love for someone to come up with a little gizmo that you plug into the lightning port of an iPad that responds when you blow on it and it turns the page. I understand that developers using the Android platform can come up with these things fairly easily but with Apple products it’s harder to break into the market.

[@simonlawford4589]

I agree, blowing would be cool!

[@notaforte]

Excellent

[@pachmann4869]

Thanks! May I ask what size tablet you use/would recommend?

[@caroline.balfour]

Hi there, Richard is using the 12.9” iPad Pro.

[@billv8938]

Aarnaud de Groen also uses this system, which you can see on his recent videos.

[@jonlilley2832]

I use Forscore myself, but didn't know about that possibility! Thank you for sharing! I'll definitely look into it. Do you have a small box you could put your iPad on while it's upside down? That would solve that problem or could you hang it off the top of the music stand? Cheers from Kent, OH, USA

[@patmeaden]

I use forscore, but I find the facial gestures don’t work well because the music stand is too high to see my face(and yes I can turn the iPad upside down, but my OCD goes crazy). I find the best solution for me is an air turn attached like toe studs on my organ

[@marcvandyck8052]

Bah... Real good software would listen to the music and advance in the partition automagically. Now that would be a breakthrough.

[@JeroenvKL]

ForScore has the option to listen, but you have to record it first and then it uses the time it takes to turn. At least that was last time I checked, haven’t used it though. Only problem is that you have to play the same tempo every time...

[@TheWorldOfHarmony]

Hello from Canada. What kind of tablet are you using?

[@marnh5632]

waldemar3141 it’s an iPad Pro. More specifically the 12.9“ version of the current 2020 model (according to what I see at 10:22)

[@clement2780]

can you get forscore etc to change stops?

[@clement2780]

do you recommend the Pro version? is it Worth the subscription? is it only for Professionals or semi-pros, amateurs....? is it strange for Performances when audiences are like why is that person twitching?

[@katherinecobert477]

Thank you for this video! I’m going to look into this app. It would be very helpful. Quick question, my memory is failing me at the moment - what is the name of the song you are playing at the beginning? It’s one of my favorites and yet I can’t think of the name.

[@redpenink12]

Wider Toccata from organ Symphony 5

[@anthonyfesta5714]

I just viewed your video on For Score and have a suggestion for overcoming the issue of the power button inadvertently switched off when flipping the iPad on its head. You may want to place a small piece of wood with a grove cut into it to keep the iPad from slipping, and making the piece of wood shorter than the full length of the iPad to insure that the power button does not contact the wooden holder. You might even match the color of the music rest on your organ so that it doesn't stand out; and distract from the organs finish. Also, you will only want to make the chanel just deep enough to keep the iPad from slipping, and not deep enough that it interferes with the operation of the camera so that it can fully capture your facial gestures. You also shouldn't have to attach it to the organ since the iPads' downward pressure should be sufficient to hold it in place; given that you are not going to be touching the iPad while playing. I hope this suggestion will help.

[@leopardabsurdity]

Seems like a case of TMJ pain waiting to happen. BTW, it actually is a neurological pairing when you move your mouth (or lips or head or tongue) one way to move the eyes the same direction and it does take a bit of overcoming (differentiation) to move them separately. Given one's eyes move to the left hand top page when anticipating playing - an app that marks not so much a random eye movement as the eyes goin to the top left "next music " would be better. but I like others' ideas better. Good video!

[@scottblair3719]

I use PiaScore on my iPad, which has the head movement option, but not the face gesture. Mind you, I’m too cheap to stump for the Pro version, so perhaps I’m missing out on that account. Like you, Richard, I find the head movement too unreliable.

[@clement2780]

how does one scroll up and down with e\ibooks, other devices; or note fingering, stop registrations, pedalling, bow marks...?

[@shin-i-chikozima]

Hang in there ！

[@oliverfrancis1851]

Hi Richard - this is an excellent solution ! Tried to contact you via email but it didn’t seem to work as it responded with a message saying your requests email doesn’t exist - many thanks again for answering my question about organ scholarships and I hope to gain some more advice

[@beautyinsound]

Received the email! Odd how it sent you an automated email?! Could you forward it to me?

[@oliverfrancis1851]

BEAUTY in SOUND Of Course ! I know you are very busy so sorry for assuming it hadn’t been received !

[@SarumChoirmaster]

Why can't the speaker in the ipad listen to where you are and turn / act accordingly?

[@clement2780]

and subscription vs one time purchase; any one time purchases ? agree, when one is looking around for registrations, stops, pedals, all over, for the priest, knowing the subsequent part of the mass, service, liturgy, weddings, funerals, etc....?

[@bremick]

How do you load the music score into (onto??) the iPad????

[@marnh5632]

Bruce Remick by visiting imslp.org and simply saving the PDF directly into the app. (At least that’s where you can find the exact scan shown in the video). Otherwise you could use your iPad‘s camera as a scanner (forScore and a lot of other apps offers that feature), or send privately scanned scores over from any other device (via AirDrop, USB, email....)

[@trishdonmurphy8127]

@@marnh5632 I have a printer scanner, and I find I get better results by using “printer scan” in my HPSmart. I’ve done some 1500 pieces in my library so far. I find getting the camera scan to work consistently is a problem...the amount of light, whether the music is absolutely flat... I also load pieces sent to me by PDF works quickly and easily.

[@lesburybear]

I am wondering about how you get your library of music onto the tablet? If you already have a large library of sheet music which you have bought over the years, Forscore presumably requires you to buy the music again that you want to play so you can download say .pdf versions. Or, do you scan your own physical copies yourself which have your own an notations on them (rather tedious)? How would this impact on copyright - or are you allowed to scan/copy a score if you have already bought it…..I am thinking of when I photocopy a spread of pages across the music desk to avoid turning.

[@caroline.balfour]

Hi Peter, Richard scans his scores into the tablet. I don’t think this is a copyright issue as we have already purchased the scores. He can then edit digitally using the Apple pen.

[@josephslomka9438]

How does that work when you’re wearing a mask as we have to where I’m at in the USA. lol. Jk. I use forscore as well. I love the app. I play for a lot of masses in different languages and many times three languages during the same mass. I take very few books anymore when I sub cuz I have almost everything I need on my iPad. My iPad is in a case so having it upside down has not been a problem for me. I also often use the two page setup by having it on its side (landscape). I find the Bluetooth foot pedals useful when at the piano but not at the organ. My home hauptwerk console has toe studs set up for this but no such luck at church.

[@jrzzrj]

👍.... wow...What would Bach think of this ?

[@poplarboydavid]

Which sample set are you using during this demo, Richard? Many thanks! 🙂

[@beautyinsound]

Caen 😊

[@James_Bowie]

Hands-free page turning is quite a difficult problem to solve for organists. I don't think it's quite there yet.

[@binoardev]

Hi! Are you using an Ipad Pro 12.9

[@beautyinsound]

Yes

[@Komponist-m4e]

What Programm or App i need?

[@clement2780]

can one turn pages or scroll Without pro version?

[@keithhearnshaworganist8199]

If you put your iPad in a case when you have the iPad turned upside down the power button won’t touch the music desk and turn the screen off

[@beautyinsound]

I now have a little wooden ledge which props the iPad up and keeps the power button away from the music desk 👍

[@Komponist-m4e]

How i musst youse the Program?

[@longsnapper5381]

That's alot of notes on those pages!!

[@beautyinsound]

It was the famous Toccata by Widor from his 5th Organ Symphony :)

[@billraty14]

Wonderful idea! I've also seen the organists of the Mormon Tabernacle use a blutooth button that sticks to the keyboard jams (by divisionals or generals) which will turn the page. I dont know if you know this US pop-culture reference, but a TV series starring Elizabeth Montgomery utilized her ability to twitch her nose to case a spell. forScore would work perfect for her!: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmGVhqNjnKZqeKM

[@patriciaannsear]

I've seen a KZbin video which shows how to use a blink for a page turn; the explanation for how to do this starts at about 18 minutes through this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXXVe2qGoNV5hK8si=fa-eoFVBG8ptz7_Y I'm going to try the blink method

[@LucidMusicIncRecordings]

At 10 euros monthly you’re better off getting an air turn pedal!

[@johannesasenbaum6391]

per year!

[@predicationst405cp]

Some people play the thing without those notes.... I can't even read so whatever I play comes from my head. I call it iMusic. I hear the notes in my head just before I have to play them. And my "software" in my head proposes some variations... Real beautiful and a disaster for people playing along with me. One problem though.. I always try to sync the two. So have a tendance to play faster and faster...

[@JSB2500]

Very interesting indeed, methinks! Thanks for sharing that. I often play without the score, and have found that hearing the music in my head then playing it is a good way to keep everything on track once I've learned a given piece. I love the "Real beautiful and a disaster" juxtaposition!

[@WinrichNaujoks]

Better at 1.5x speed

[@pamelaparzych3489]

This is difficult to fathom.

[@misterbee0123]

No good if you sing too

[@beautyinsound]

Haha! True, but a singer isn’t using their hands to sing so they can just tap the screen which does the same job.