Soto Windmaster VS MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe - Boil Test and WIND TESTING - Shocking Results!

[@michaeltichonuk2176]

I bought Soto due to this video. The point that sold me is blue flame. Soto has a better atomization design. So it is more efficient BTU/gram of fuel. Can't argue the science. I've no complaint with mine, been used hard for 2 months now. Thanks for proving I made the right choice! And providing the info to make the purchase!

[@cj_m2477]

Nice to see a definitive showdown between these two stove. Plus, I just purchased the Windmaster so I feel good about buying it. Thank you Ernie. Love your videos and keep them coming!

[@srbontrager]

Almost a year ago(June 2020), I purchased the Soto Windmaster, instead of the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe. This for multiple reasons. They were the original designers, the Soto was lower in price and came more highly recommended. Also, I discovered in my research, the MSR-PRD's piezo ignitor had a much higher failure rate. In numerous cases of people complaining about it's piezo not working right out of the box. As for my Soto-WM, it's been nothing but rock solid reliable for me. Fires up on the first press of the ignitor.

[@bloophero]

I bought the Soto yesterday, without watching this and I'm pleased (and relieved) by the result (I was worried the shocking result was that the Soto wasn't the more efficient of the two).

[@normanmallory2055]

Good test , pretty much how I do my tests ! I’ve used MSR stoves since 1987 and still do with the Dragonfly still being my favorite! Never had a problem with any of the models ! Canister stoves I used Snow Peak and have 2 of them ! Flawless every time ! I would add the Soto Windmaster if I moved forward on any model at this point in time ! Everything I’ve read on the Soto has been good !

[@jplamb77]

Another Great video,,,!!!!! I’ve been a MSR whisper-light and XGK stove guy for over 30 years. But in this case,, Iam 100% with You. And I totally enjoy my Soto Windmaster,,,,!!!!! Great Review,,,,, Joshua

[@camojoe83]

Ah, the xgk is a beast. I ended up getting a Brunton Optimus in that category tho, still might get an xgk. They look cool.

[@gunterbecker8528]

Good work mate 😊,but 2 years on whats new in the field. I believe Soto is still up there!!!

[@stormkinghiker]

So, when do we get to see a head-to-head comparison of the Windmaster against the Amicus?!?

[@vibehedegaard3293]

Yes please :-) 👍🏻

[@randallharmsen5802]

Hey Ernie nice shirt! LOL 😆. Your the best stove tester out there. Thanks for sharing your video and time.

[@richarddavis6311]

Thanks for your insight, tests and reviews. 👍🏻 Keep up the excellent work and informative content. 👍🏻 I’m British and live in Normandy, France and I plan to do some motorcycle touring next year including some off-road (TET) routes through southern France, Pyrenees Mountains and across in to Spain. Having excellent reliable lightweight kit is important. I am a huge MSR enthusiast and have many of their products including a pair of Dragonfly multi-fuel stoves. I like the flexibility of multi-fuel stoves and not having to carry around empty gas canisters, however many of my biker friends have small compact gas stoves and they highly recommend them so I have just bought both these stoves (MSR Pocketrocket Deluxe and Soto Windmaster) and have yet to try them out. Brilliant channel and thanks again. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@Daveyboygoeswild]

Great video, I had the original msr but switched to the soto wind master a while aho. Just love it. Great review the gas usage is a major factor in real world use and give me 2 or 3 extra boils depending on the conditions. Or a free can of gas ever 4 cans.

[@stephenverchinski409]

Nice way to put the gas consumption rate.

[@VinceLoschiavo]

Love the shirt!

[@mattclark1429]

I think. that the colored flame of the pocket rocket is due to ionization of the ignitor and not a reflection of the burner efficiency.

[@Storyideas81]

What about using an oscillating fan to Simulate on/off wind or wind gust? Also see about getting a kestrel for wind speeds during testing.

[@devilOeyes]

YAS! this was great thanks!! you really helped me pick out between the too, finally haha!

[@jbmoto5050]

Great review. The use of a structured, data-based approach helps folk form their own opinions on equipment. I’d be interested in the outcome of a similar comparison between some of the more innovative gas- and alcohol-type burners. Say the Soto Windmaster and Goshawk ERA stoves? Keep up the good work.

[@cbigg81]

Epic head to head! Well maybe not epic but I thoroughly enjoyed the video! Thanks

[@justonemori]

I was watching a few videos earlier on stoves so this pops up after I ordered a Soto, haha. Good stuff.

[@GrumpyGrunt]

I picked up my Windmaster + both stands a couple years ago on a Black Friday deal. Best $60 I've ever spent. Thanks, Ernie!

[@RM-pg4js]

Can this stove be cleaned so it wont clogg?

[@GrumpyGrunt]

@@RM-pg4js Clog? What is it clogging with? It's titanium, so it should be able to be cleaned thoroughly, but I would check the manufacturer recommendations. I guess it would depend what part is clogging, with what, and to what degree.

[@RM-pg4js]

@@GrumpyGrunt when i turned the valve didnt hear the hiz sound coming off the cannister..someone told me to soak the burner in water and soap for a few hours..it looks like the burner is cloggd up i guess the brand is GasOne..almost same design as those..miss my morning coffee dude..oh well

[@GrumpyGrunt]

@@RM-pg4js Oh, that sucks. Mine has never formed any kind of residue from fuel on it or anything (just normal oxidation). I would steer clear from that brand of gas. I hope it clears up and is usable again.

[@RM-pg4js]

@@GrumpyGrunt what kind of Propane you Reccomend Sr ?

[@JeremyWalla]

Been loving all the videos. Thanks for the time and effort. I did remember from my old days working on equipment a yellow flame is incomplete combustion. May or may not, in this case probably not, be a sign of a failing appliance, stove etc. It really comes down to how well the mix is between air and the gas. Many things of course can affect this mix, ports, temps, gas, venting etc. Just sharing some info. Keep up the good work thank you again.

[@KatrinaOutside]

I actually used the Soto Windmaster at first for 5 years. I loved it. It’s definitely powerful and efficient. However, the setup I liked to use with it (the 4 flex instead of the Triflex) was much too bulky when trying to pack my whole cook-kit nesting together. I ended up selling my Windmaster for BOTH the Pocket Rocket Deluxe and the Soto Amicus (using each for different situations) because both pack down smaller and are all one unit which I like better. I guess it just depends on the individual and what your needs and wants are.

[@joshhanlonn2665]

Interesting! Can I ask what is your current cooking nesting system?

[@starlingblack814]

Hello Dr. Ernie, Another informative video to help us wade through all the various gear out there. Thanks much for an unbiased review.

[@roberttrinies7698]

The one advantage of the PR is it'll fit horizontally in a narrower pot than the SW. ✌🏼

[@stevencon7]

You could simulate the on and off wind consistently using an oscillating fan

[@Rashoop]

I have the Windmaster as well, and agree that it does deserve the reputation it has received. My only gripe is the detachable pot stand. I wish it were captive. I'd like to see a Windmaster II that includes a retractable pot stand like on the Soto Amicus... which has become my preferred stove (lighter, more compact, and a captive pot stand.... only thing that sucked was the piezo starter, which crapped out on me, so I removed it, and now just use a lighter).

[@moorejl57]

Good info, I was leaning toward the Windmaster and now I have a reason.

[@Baasicstuff]

This is better than watching the Mike Tyson back in the day, I just bought the SOTO and Im here cheering my team on lol

[@Fellmandave1]

Excellent. I did a similar rest but added in heat exchanger pot. It was the wind that was the killer.Thanks again

[@bertman4]

Soto for the win! What I really want is the Stormbreaker, which is sold out everywhere. Hope to make that trip to Japan in the fall and pick one up.

[@msilverhammer]

Important...you forgot to mention that the Soto products also come with brass fittings, versus easy to strip aluminum, at least last time I checked. Take a course at Stoving with Hiking Jim. I use the Soto Amicus, as it comes stock with 4 pot stands, a Piezo Stealth Igniter, and great wind performance.

[@freeforester1717]

It’s noticeable how many presses of the piezo igniter were needed for the MSR burner. Presumably they were both equally new stoves.

[@phillipp1399]

Well now that that’s done, what could possibly be left to review? Thanks for sharing your unnatural interest in camp stoves!

[@Freedom4Life40]

Nice comparison video. Now we know. Thanks!

[@dannylake4357]

It takes a big man to admit he’s wrong. Good job good video.

[@psyamok3735]

Thank you very much for the review! Very informative and great help in making a decision on which stove to buy. Thumbs up!

[@henkjalving8833]

A nice and honest review! Thanks!

[@jheighten7568]

Thanks for the video and your time

[@bextrex]

A yellow burner flame is a symptom that the burner is not getting enough air for complete combustion of the gas. Correcting this problem involves adjusting the burner’s air shutter to admit more air, something that an experienced do-it-yourselfer can do.

[@gregsantos9392]

Great head to head test of two very similar stoves. Throwing the wind variable in is very useful. You mention the regulator is for flame control. While it may help, the primary advantage of micro regulators is cold performance. Most stoves have a fixed jet. The colder the fuel the lower the pressure. Lower pressure decreases performance. Regulators have a jet that opens up more when the fuel is colder. This maintains performance and also increases efficiency. The difference in flame color could be partly due to the quality and performance of the micro regulator. Thanks again for the great test!

[@Feliz2024]

Soto For me the best I love l used for 3 years still like new one

[@Kenbur]

love watching these videos Ernie - brings back memories of our vacation this year- thanks - 🙂👍

[@thebeardedgorilla8596]

That was a great test. Very informative

[@outdoorstransient1498]

Just loaded my son up a backpack with gear, and included pocket rocket deluxe. He will get much joy out of it. I have the Windmaster, debating on taking it or a brs3000t on Colorado Trail this July. Or am I? Thanks brother. Be well, Terry.

[@anndebaldo7381]

Great trial! Thanks!

[@crazysquirrel9425]

Drat I bought the MSR pocket rocket deluxe.... Of course that was about 2 years ago and nearly $80 for it.

[@utopia.exploring]

Both stoves are of high quality! I went Soto before watching this but even had I bought a MSR I wouldn't be disappointed! I only use stoves in the mountains, since I live in CO, and wind def plays a part in my food prep! Knowing I can save fuel makes me feel better! Cheers!

[@williamshaw2401]

Thanks for taking the time to do these videos. You helped me to decide on the purchase of the Soto Windmaster, only had it a week so just done a couple of boils to make some coffee. I’m looking forward to using it this fall and winter for some late hunts here in Idaho, the fact that it is good in the wind is a plus. I’m middle aged so looking for ideas to cut my pack weight, in the past I’ve always carried a thermos of coffee but this will be the ticket to getting my coffee fix. Now I need to watch your videos on making coffee to find the best lightweight brewing option for me, do you have any suggestions? Thanks again.

[@TheAudaciousAdventurer]

For coffee... an aeropress 😉

[@ScottKent]

Late to the video, but thank you and great job. One question though...if you freeze the fuel cans (or just get them very cold) what stove with or without a pressure regulator performs best? I switched to the SOTO Windmaster after having a stove fail on a winter hike on the heels of a winter storm and so far I have no complaints.

[@susanstebila8707]

💥💥💥QUESTION… Like better Soto -wind master or the MSR wind-master?

[@camojoe83]

Also, pot choice can really affect how the wind keeps you from fast boils as well. Titanium and aluminum can lose a huge amount of heat to air cooling and can actually start working against you if you're using significantly less water than what your pot holds. Every bit of metal that is not touching water is pulling heat from the water and radiating it into the air on 2 surfaces instead of only 1 where it touches your water. Food for thought.

[@xenaguy01]

While what you said is obviously true, using the same pot for testing two different stoves eliminates this variable from the test environment. That is why indoor conditions are important for testing, as only in controlled conditions can two similar items be compared. The entire objective of testing is to eliminate every difference except the two items being tested. Ideally, every other variable should be equal.

[@DerekLand]

Wider pots boil better than ones with a smaller footprint for this reason...obviously wider but the same volume. Although, accepting you make a very valid point, in the argument at hand it's a comparison so as long as the arrangement for testing each is equal it's a fair review. :)

[@martinerhard8447]

Ok titanium and aluminium are weird examples like aliminium is highly conductive for heat while titanium is rather bad at it.

[@ashab1]

I would be interested to see the difference in boiling time of 440ml of water, in a 750ml pot with lid vs flat frying pan no lid both titanium. I imagine in the flat pan it would use half as much fuel I don’t have the frying pan to test myself.

[@GeorgeOrwell-yz6zx]

Thanks for the video. Very interesting. I guess you could simulate on/off wind with an oscillating fan if you wanted but I don't know if it would add anything.

[@jonhighsmith803]

Don't know if you'll answer a question as this is at least a year after the video, but I think the Soto is designed in Japan but is it also made in japan? Thanks and enjoyed your comparison.

[@Mr.tdiv14]

Can you do Soto Windmaster vs Fire maple Polaris ?

[@spaceman61]

Great video, thanks

[@felixmint9839]

What is up my brother from South Korea wow

[@michaeltichonuk2176]

Good deal and great info!!

[@theoneandonlycarlton]

Oscillating Fan For Intermittent Wind Would Be My Suggestion.

[@benwilkinson45]

I do think your MSR might be defective. Its not getting a clean burn when the flame is orange like that. This may also be why it seems to burn less efficiently. I had a Soto Amicus do this (orange flame), I returned it and the new one had the normal blue flame. I also used the same canister. Thanks again for the great content, love this channel.

[@chinnithy7156]

My MSR pocket rocket deluxe doesn’t burn orange flame like his so I think you are right.

[@TheRambler11]

Mine isn't orang like that either

[@jonbrown9490]

The MSR is probably burning more yellow because it has a richer air/fuel mix. The piezo on the msr is located in a spot where there could be another air venturi hole..vs the soto which has air vents all the was around. This also might account for the higher fuel usage the MSR experiences.

[@Marker-er3ro]

Stove battle!!!! I’m gonna get lit!

[@Bearpaw000]

I like the soto it has 4 legs for holding large pots and cost less plus the igniter on the pocket rocket fails

[@kelesin]

Hi. I have 1.5 l. jetboil pot with heat exchanger. I tried to do similar test with msr pocket rocket de luxe, jestboil mightymo, and soto windmaster. It was outside, the temperature was about 5-6 C. No wind. The time of boiling 0.5 l. of water was 1.18 to 1.50 minutes. The fastest was... pocket rocket de luxe, next was soto windmaster and the slowest was the jetbol mightymo. . I think a lot of depends of the kind of a pot you use. I did not check the gas consumption. I know, my fault. I also did not "switch on the wind". Whoud you be so kind to make a test with some pot with heat exchanger. In my opinion my test was very interesting, but wasn"t performed as professionally as yours. A lot of guys use pots with heat exchanger. Comparison between regular pot and pot with heat exchanger could be very interesting for a lot of people. Don't you think so? Greetings from distant Poland. 🤩

[@stvcotton]

I have to admit that the detachable legs had me questioning if I wanted this stove. I am not a lightweight or minimalist hiker, I am a boundary waters canoeist, so when I take hikers with me they are appalled at the size of my packs. The detachable legs just make me worry about loss. So I will probably throw the 3 prong stand in just in case. But, the reason I went with it over the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe is I don't really like the folding stands on my pocket rocket 2 and these are the exact same. Now that I have the Soto, I feel like it sits a pot or skillet better. The other thing I noticed is the piezo ignitor. Before I ordered, I thought it was a wasted effort. Those things never work great, especially the one on my MSR Superfly, so I just plan on using a lighter always. The Soto one has never failed. The MSR one I have, it took 2 or 3 trips of use before it started working reliably but I still won't try to start it without having a lighter handy. I think these MSRs are gonna find their way into the bin with my Coleman Peak1s.

[@johnnybrathen7584]

Great vid

[@calvinmonroe2408]

Hey i have a jet boil mo… is it not a good stove

[@CarlZ993]

Not surprising. Windmaster rocks!

[@anton_gavrilov]

You need a rotating fan to simulate off and on wind :) Windmaster definitely performs better, but it's more cumbersome and 3flex is now sold only separately. I like the design of MSR and Amicus more. It's not going to be windy every time you need to boil water, camping on the top of the mountain isn't a good idea anyway.

[@alexwbanks70]

Thanks again Ernie! I'm pretty sure I've watched every one of your videos, but I'll go back and check if you have a BRS VS ... video. That's what I have and have had for quite a while now. I'm happy with it, but in your opinion is it worth spending the money and the weight difference by getting a Soto? I'm thinking that the the BRS puts out a lot less fuel which lengthens the boil time. I'm not in a hurry to boil, just want to use as little fuel as possible and go lightweight as possible. EDIT: I found the video and I'm really considering getting the Soto.

[@GlenGoesOutdoors]

I know I'm late to this party ... but another note - I can't be 100% sure, but I *think* that the Soto would've boiled in wind even faster IF you had the pot centred over the burner. It was about 1/2 to 3/4" off centre (to the left on screen) whereas the pot over the Pocket Rocket Deluxe was very-close to centre. They do perform better if they have full flame contact on the bottom of the pots, in my experience. But regardless, you still proved the Soto a much better stove.

[@tomnoyb8301]

Good eye and exactly correct.

[@bazza1carter]

Good match up mate. The flame colour on the MSR is telling and probably explains why there is an half hour difference in burn time of a cartridge between the two. Apart from cooling which you mentioned there is possibly a under supply of oxygen. I never liked the pot/pan supports on the PR series whereas the Soto has span. This great for me as I general cook with a skillet (ironically a MSR one!)

[@CalvinPuah]

now you just need a flux ring / heat exchanger light weight pot to up the efficiency of the Windmaster and you'd have a really sweet unit.

[@charliemcdowell5231]

Yeah he should. I use a fire maple flux ring kettle with my windmaster and it’s hilariously fast

[@CalvinPuah]

@@charliemcdowell5231 I hacked my 4flex and used it with my Jetboil Flash cup at 1/2 power, nesting the pot support directly under the bottom of the cup. 7 deg ambient temp, 2 cups takes 2.5 minutes and runs 6g of gas. Burning at full pelt (with cozy moved suitably out of the way to avoid being licked by flames escaping up the sides of the HE fins) brings boil times down to 1.5 minutes with 6g of gas. :)

[@lhongfontanosaii5498]

Hi. Been following your reviews for quite some time now. May I ask if you have a problem with the piezo igniter on your pocket rocket deluxe? I heard the wire tends to melt after sometime of usage.

[@redpillnibbler4423]

Very interesting 👍

[@jamesbparkin740]

interesting... how well does your cone or trangia 27 (gas or alcohol) work in that type of wind? I guess the cone might be a more similar use-case to the canistertop stove, beinga lightweight stove... but slower in still air. Also the Soto Amicus, which is a bit cheaper but looks very similar ... in the UK you can get it with a cookset for less than the windmaster alone

[@dustoff499]

That yellow means soot to me. Not as efficient burn… I could be wrong, as I own neither. Kind of a JetBoil fan here.

[@brianferris1233]

🌲🌲🦅🌲thank you for sharing your video today stay safe and healthy out there 🌲🦌🌲

[@DieTabbi]

Do I understand right? Burning time is 16 minutes then the gas can isempty?

[@dpalms24]

You could simulate eratic wind with an oscillating fan.

[@RM-pg4js]

Can you clean these stoves ? They keep clogging up on me..

[@camojoe83]

The MSR doesn't breathe as well, runs richer/cooler on the flame. I'd blame the air hole layout at the bottom of the stove by the valve. I bet the Windmaster flows more air thru the stack than the other, also probably goes a long way towards explaining the efficiency gap per fuel can.

[@rogernuffer]

Soto has better si?er control also. But they are both really good stoves.

[@rogernuffer]

Simmer

[@martink9785]

I love watching water boil

[@ApothecaryGrant]

Looks to me that the Soto has a cleaner burn .

[@KGLOOK565]

I didn’t know a small company like Soto is used in US.

[@harold80057]

Tengo msr pocket deluxe es genial 👍

Sorry to tell you ...but NOW you need to compare all soto stoves with each other...😁😏😉

[@vibehedegaard3293]

I agree :-) 👍🏼👏🏼

@@vibehedegaard3293 🤗

[@Rashoop]

Should have also added to my comment another difference between the Windmaster and MSR Deluxe: country of origin. Soto is Japan, and MSR is Korea. For me, that's worth noting.

[@willyjimmy8881]

Both countries make quality products in my experience. It's the chynese made stuff I try to avoid.

[@dumaflotchy13]

Soto fusion trek stove

[@titanpreparedness]

H2H comparisons are my kinda videos. Talk specs all day boring but put the proof in the puddin and im all for that

[@TheRambler11]

Would be interesting to see both canisters chillded and used at an ambien temp of around 30-35F to see if the regulator in the MSR really makes a difference

[@danielvalencia6582]

The windmaster also has a regulator

[@camojoe83]

Maybe use an oscillating fan to make intermittent wind as a secondary type of wind test? The steady wind approach is definitely a hardcore test. That's like cooking on a pier on the ocean type wind, or Iowa field conditions any time. Not out of the question, but definitely the upper end of what you'd casually sit in to make hot food or drink. You want to replicate an above timberline setup, you'd maybe need to go to a squirrel cage floor dryer with a speed control.

[@tomnoyb8301]

Prefer the Amicus pot-stand arm mechanism. 1) That they're attached and can't get lost. 2) There are four arms. 3) Amicus arms have that positive "click" to inspire confidence they won't be wobbling around. Swapable arms may be attractive to some, but fiddly piece-parts that can get lost are not on this author's wish-list. Does Windmaster have to be so tall and heavy? Maybe so, maybe not? Nevertheless, Windmaster is best-in-class. Even best-in-class can improve.

[@michelstronguin6974]

Remember that MSR will continue to improve, so the second generation pocket rocket deluxe will one day come out and match the Soto stove, and third generation could beat it. Having said that, we are living in today’s world, and today the Soto is flat out better in every conceivable metric. Making the pocket rocket deluxe a ridiculous purchase if both stoves are available for purchase.

[@tomnoyb8301]

Hundred stove vids. Whod'a thought PaleoHiker liked stoves?

[@ApothecaryGrant]

Thumbs up

[@blueckaym]

"you can't simulate ON & OFF wind" actually you can - just use a rotating fan, so half of the time it wouldn't blow directly at the stove.

[@evanhammond7305]

Hopefully we get to watch Ernie boil water again soon

[@k.whiking4372]

Soto Amicus, Soto Amicus, Soto Amicus

[@Freedom4Life40]

I bought a Soto Amicus for the fourth support arm and it's non-removable so I don't need to worry about losing it.

[@jeromebullard6123]

I use my pocket rocket to ignite my reactor.

[@curly_]

Soto Windmaster ! ,... sry had to