panellogy 165 - valerian

[@vollsticks]

Heyheyho! Good to see you back! I've read the first coupla volumes and quite enjoyed them--I've seen the art gets more "realistic" as the series progresses to me it's merely very well done genre BD. The film was awful, like you sais Dane Dehaan looks about 17, he's more of a Han Solo circa Star Wars age , there were some great-looking sequences (for instance the chase through the four different sectors) but it was far too episodic...bleh...Valerian was clearly very influential, I wish I'd known abut it 25 years ago! You like a lot of comics I don't like but I still enjoy listening to your erudite opinions. Copped some great stuff recently, Band For Life the new Ripple h/cI mentioned, new L & R, Songy of Paradise by Gary Panter, Crickets #6 and a bunch of stuff from the Safari Festival (1 day "bleeding edge" comics fest put on by Breakdown Press, I got to meet the author of one of my favourite comics (1-800-MICE), Matthew Thurber, one of the most original cartoonists working today. Btw just wondering what you think of Tim Hensley? Did you read Sir Alfred #3 or Wally Gropius (no, not that one!) or Ticket Stub?

[@earlgrey862]

"erudite", ha, a new word... but yeah, erudite, I think I am ... and very modest of course as well :) the thing with Valerian is: "Ambassador of shadows" is by far not the best story, even not one of the better half, I would say... my favorite one is "the island of children" (don't know the exact english title) - did you read that? But of course, nobody should expect his mind to be blown away instantly... as you put it: it's well done genre BD..."merely"... but I like it. Oh my goodness: the list of keywords you're feeding me right here! Aside from Panter I've never heard of anyone of that list, but I'll bookmark your comment and come back later... seems that you gave me some homework to do. Thanks, much appreciated.

[@vollsticks]

Hey no problem. Breakdown are really putting out some incredible "avant-garde" comics. Still rooted deeply in cartooning, just "stretching the form" incredibly. Btw the Valerian I read was (I'm sure) the first ever one, something to do with rivers or ocean? Ah just checked: City of Shifting Waters, forgotten second one, it was one of those thin, soft-cover Cinebooks (do you have those readily available in Germany?), they put out some great "cartoony" BD like Gomer Goof (YES! Franquin!), Blake & Mortimer, Spirou and Fantasio, Thorgal...hah just checked their site they're actually a British company! I bought about 12 for 50 pence each from my local toy-shop-that-sells-a-very-small-selection-of-comics. Thanks for the reply! PLEASE at least TRY and check out 1-800 MICE, I know you don't particularly prefer "cartoony" art but if you can dig Max Anderrson and Henriette Valium, trust me, Matthew Thurber will be a walk in the park! And 1-800...really is THE most "original" comic I've ever read. When you have effusive blurbs from Daniel Clowes, Ben Katchor AND Matt Groening...well, speaks for itself. Not that "celebrity endorsements" are any sort of guarantee but when it's cartonists of that calibre...

[@earlgrey862]

"city of shifting waters" is really a bit meh (even though it has some ramifications for later stories)... I've never seen any Cinebookpublication in my shop or elsewhere, but they're of course available via the net. Nevertheless they seem to be a bit infamous for censoring (XIII) and uninspired covers, going always for the cheaper route (softcover etc.)... but that's not necessarily bad & if you can get some of that stuff for 50 pence, what a steal.

[@vollsticks]

I know, I couldn't pass up on them for that price. I copped three volumes of Orbital, something I've seen people rave about but I thought it was one of the mediocre, insipid, competent sci-fi bd I have ever been unfortunate to read. Mind you I was brought up with 2000ad, soo.....

[@vollsticks]

I meant "more of a Han Solo circa Star Wars age" in the comic, not the film,obviously.

[@Xbale]

I'm just gonna eat and then I'm gonna write a comment, I am just glad you're back! FULL of excitement!

[@earlgrey862]

"I'd rather discover new stuff than just get everything in the best possible format." that's a wise decision, I guess. btw: there will be an eighth book in that Carlsen-series this year. They publish short stories in a smaller format (they were supposed to be and originally published in that format, so it's okay in this case). Seems that you and I had a pretty similar experience with that movie... my wife really liked it though, but when it comes to movies, she's a very special case anyhow. I don't think that I will do sth. about Eisner soon... first and foremost because I'm absolutely not an expert, I've read "Zum Herzen des Sturms" or however it's called and that's it, I guess - sorry... but there are a lot of other youtubers who are big Eisnerfans, I recall a video about some oversized Spirit monsterbooks from Sleepyreader666 in particular.

[@Xbale]

I recognized that book (it is actually called "to the heart of the storm") in your collection. I didn't know it was your only Eisner book. He might not be my favorite artist ever but he had a huge impact on many writers and was influential for the whole comic scene. I know that his graphic novels like "the contract with god trilogy" are really popular and I agree with them being a great example for graphic literature but I love the Spirit, whether it is the art or just the extraordinary writing, I love the whole concept. I'd love to see a panellogy... Here's a little secret tip: They sell these massive Spirit Archives (similar to the DC Archives) on cc. Many of them are 15 bucks, which is incredible! (coverprice is 50 bucks for comparison). Try it out if you really haven't yet!

[@earlgrey862]

thanks for the hint... but actually I just ordered a load from cc (the fourth Sixth Gun omnibus, Allred's Silver Surfer (some of them for cheap) and a ton of other stuff) so I'm kinda broke. Even some books for 15 bucks amount to sth and Eisner is really not a priority of mine... though I can totally see the appeal of Spirit.

[@Xbale]

Zählt halt nun mal auch zu den Kindheitscomics dazu... Naja, wie dem auch sei, ich habe mir nun (Mehr oder weniger Geburtstagsvorschuss (ist in einer Woche)) die Absolute Editionen von Promethea zugelegt (2 & 3), als auch das Lost Girls Slipcase, ebenfalls von Alan Moore, was ich eigentlich schon mal bestellt hatte, aber dann doch ersetzt habe. Das gibt es beschädigt für 35 Euro, anstatt 100?, meine ich. Ja, ich glaube bei einem solchen Preis kann ich über all die Macken und Dellen hinwegsehen, und ich hoffe auch, dass hauptsächlich der Schuber beschädigt ist und die Bücher in Ordnung sind. Ich denke aber mal nicht, dass es allzu gravierend wird, die Bindung wird schon nicht zerfallen sein... Kennst du Lost Girls? Ich hab wirklich keinen blassen Schimmer, was das ist, aber ich habe einfach blind gekauft, weil halt Alan Moore drauf stand und ich es bereits bei diversen Leuten gesehen habe. Ach und was Promethea angeht, ich hoffe, dass sich mir noch die Möglichkeit bietet die beiden Trades (die in der1. Absolute Edition enthalten sind) zu erwerben, um dann gleich reinzutauchen. Hast du die Hard- oder Softcover? Bei den ganzen Omnibi / Omnibusse (?!), da kauf ich nicht mehr blindlings, ich lese die zwar, aber ich hatte halt irgendwie das Ziel vor Augen gehabt, dass Silver Age weitestgehend in diesem Format zu vervollständigen. Nur wenn mich der Kontent jetzt wirklich anspricht, werd' ich mir einen Omnibus kaufen und mich erstmal von dem ganzen Silver Age Kram losreißen, da hab' ich jetzt echt vorgesorgt, haha. Wollt ich nur loswerden, da du dich ja schon mal dazu geäußert hast, nachdem ich dir von meiner Ausbeute berichtet hatte. **edit** Just read my comment above again and noticed how often I used "I think", lol.

[@earlgrey862]

Lost Girls ist ziemlich adult für... wie alt wirst Du nochmal?... Wie, Deine ursprüngliche Idee war, das gesamte Silver Age in Omnibi ins Regal zu stellen? Das dürfte n bisschen viel werden (oder meinst Du "nur" die von DC?)

[@GoreVidalComicbooks]

Greetings from Texas. I own four volumes published by Dargaud, from the early 80's. Paperbacks, with the body detached from the cover, in most of them. Like yourself, the cartoony artwork didn't initially draw me to the stories when I saw them in Heavy Metal Magazine, but over time I was sold on them. Nice presentation. This video should attract new readers.

[@earlgrey862]

Hi Mr. Vidal, hope your feet are dry.

[@GoreVidalComicbooks]

Thank you, we were fortunate. Corpus Christi was the intended landfall, but it went 30 miles north, destroying everything in its path, flooding Houston, a city I once lived in, and where I saw Wagner's Tristan and Isolt. A remarkable city.

[@earlgrey862]

good to hear that you are well

[@LukeDodge916]

I've got all three books published by Cinebook and the Treasury by Titan, and to be honest I really like this series. I was unable to find time to see the film in the theatre while it was out and regardless of the negative reviews here in the States I still want to see this film.

[@earlgrey862]

ah, the comic is great... but don't expect too much from the movie: It's a real schizo one... everything that usually matters (dialogue, main characters, plot) is at least questionable if not mediocre... but there's enough stuff and bling in the background and around the center that makes the movie worth watching.

[@earlgrey862]

you said "all THREE books"... actually I'm pretty sure that Cinebook has published a lot more if not all of the 21 books

[@LukeDodge916]

earl grey Yes, you're exactly right. But I think what I picked up were these hardcover collections of albums, if I'm not mistaken? These include Luc Besson and Mesieres and Christin interviews. I think over here they've collected three volumes of three stories each. I'm assuming more are to come??

[@albrechtschraiber4358]

I would like to hear some thoughts of Mezieres and Christin on the new luc besson movie but the book seems to be not something for me.

[@fuzzuck]

Another illuminating comic vid from the Earl. Well done, m'lord. I've been a slight fan of Christin, thanks to a couple hundred pages worth of collaborations with Enki Bilal, in particular 'The Black Order Brigade' & 'The Hunting Party'. Valerian never interested me enough to pick up, mostly due to Mezieres artwork, which always struck me as lackluster compared to his contemporaries. It's a style that was trendy at the time, but I felt hadn't aged well... and unlike Rosinski's art in Thorgal, the talent behind the dated look didn't seem strong enough to impress me on its own merits. But after your overview, I've reappraised the art; the quality clearly improves over the long 20-album run, enough so that I've bumped it to the 3rd Tier of its time and place, an arbitrary move that is meaningless to anyone else... it's just my weird way of trying to enforce ruthless Dredd-style order in the chaos of my pre-apocalyptic book collection, Mega-Library-ONE. I'm still working on finding the biggest & best hardcover collections of the '1st Tier' European masters from the Metal Hurlant/(A Suivre)/Echo des Savanes era, a totally subjective designation that includes Moebius, Manara, Joost Swarte (the ligne claire Crumb), Schuiten, Boucq, Jacques Tardi, the criminally over-looked Vittorio Giardino, Yves Chaland, Lorenzo Mattotti, Georges Bess and Geof Darrow, who popped up at the tail end. That's Tier 1, with Bilal and Juan Gimenez representative of Tier 2; and that doesn't include the contemporary Tier 1 BD masters: Jens Harder (Alpha: Directions & Beta: Civilizations are pure fucking genius - part comic, part monograph, part supercontextual art-science-meta-thesis), Mezzo, David B, Thomas Ott, Killoffer, Blutch, Stephane Blanquet, Sfar & Trondheim (Donjon/Dungeon is one of my favorite BD series... like Game of Thrones meets Monty Python and The Holy Grail, with Ducks and Shrimp-whores...), Nicolas De Crecy, Max, Sergo Ponchione, Jason, Winshluss & Frederik Peeters (who is another legit BD genius, as AAMA makes plain), to name a few. With my focus squarely on the art, that puts Valerian down a couple Tiers in it's Geo-Temporal category, but some day, justice may prevail over the current housing crisis in Mega-Library-ONE... perhaps using the strategy from panellogy #000 as a proto-type... I'm beginning to think that massive guns and motorbikes aren't the best tools for Library Organization. Valerian's popularity in Europe suggests that there's an alchemical reaction that can't be quantified or explained without reading it... charismatic characters & quirky creatures, an engaging narrative, something greater than the sum of it's parts. If they release English HC omnibus editions similar to the German editions in the video, I'll definitely check them out. Unfortunately, the shittiness of the film won't have North American comic fans running out to track down the albums. Then again, even if the film is awesome - i.e. Snowpiercer - it won't necessarily mean a huge bump in source material sales. As good as Snowpiercer was, I don't think that translated into box-office success. The Fifth Element felt like an adaptation of The Long Tomorrow and the Incal... did Besson base that on a BD? Maybe not. P-S: Recommendations for Books you're almost certainly aware of, but on the off-chance you're not... - I'm a huge Mezzo fan, & this French signed & numbered, 11" x 15" HC 'Integrale Luxe' ltd. edition of 'Le Roi des Mouches' (by Mezzo & longtime story collaborator, Pirus, a fantastic artist in his own right) is worth every cent. The 1st link is my Goodreads review, which includes plenty of Mezzo art: [ www.goodreads.com/review/show/1501279285 ] [ www.amazon.fr/roi-mouches-Int%C3%A9grale-luxe/dp/234400551X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1504773469&sr=8-5&keywords=le+roi+des+mouches ] - Mezzo: Fuzzbook - this is the kind of retrospective I love; even though it focuses on Mezzo's illustration work exclusively, it's a bit more satisfying than Darrow's 'Lead Poisoning' in size & scope: [ www.amazon.fr/Fuzzbook-Mezzo-illustrations/dp/2344018980/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1504775033&sr=1-1&keywords=mezzo+fuzzbook ] - Love in Vain: Robert Johnson 1911-1938, by Mezzo & Jean-Michel Dupont: [ www.amazon.de/Love-Vain-Robert-Johnson-1911-1938/dp/3770455266/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1504774827&sr=1-3&keywords=Book+Mezzo ] - If you're a fan of all art, high & low, Walton Ford's 'Pancha Tantra' is a must-own... the 1st link is my Goodreads review of the book... judging by your tastes, I doubt you'll be disappointed (not with the book, anyway... the review, maybe): [ www.goodreads.com/review/show/592190268 ] [ www.amazon.de/Walton-Ford-Pancha-Tantra-Buford/dp/3836559080/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1504775194&sr=1-1&keywords=walton+ford ] - And Taschen's brand new 'Paleo-Art', a history of the artists who combined art, archaeology, biology, comparative anatomy and pure imagination to shape our vision of the Dinosaurs and their world, is a 10 out of 10. It's a huge book, the cover beneath the extra-thick dust-jacket is a textured gold/black vinyl, meant to replicate Dino-skin, and it includes many, many gatefolds... [ www.amazon.de/Paleoart-Visions-Prehistoric-Past-1830-1980/dp/3836555115/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1504775641&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=paleoart ] - A few other reviews of comics and artbooks I recommend unconditionally, in this case: [ www.goodreads.com/review/show/1388236920 ] [ www.goodreads.com/review/show/1690791768 ] [ www.goodreads.com/review/show/1067822748 ] [ www.goodreads.com/review/show/1066747911 ] - And one review of a comic I DO NOT recommend, in the strongest way possible: [ www.goodreads.com/review/show/1067134817 ]

[@earlgrey862]

woah woah, hold it ... I'm just back from the weekend and you give me tons of homework to do. Well, thank you, much appreciated... esp. since you obviously know your stuff: I will work my way through your list in the next couple of ... well... days/months/years ? :) thanks again (.... your post was derouted into my spam folder initially, btw)

[@earlgrey862]

you definitely get this month's award for the best comments on my channel... so if you have an used teabag and some gold paint you're officially allowed to paint that bag golden and put it wherever you like it - yeah, I'm that generous. Nah, you don't have to apologize or explain for your list, nothing wrong with some "homework" ... I like it of course to get some hints and advise, esp. since I'm sure there's a lot that will be up my alley. I got "Love nest" and showed it in one of the Burns-videos, but yeah, very nice little artbook.

[@warwick1150]

nice that you decided to do a video on valeria btw or is it the i could'nt think of onen. is your summer break over? I hope that we will see more videoss. here are a few video ideas for you - could you please tell me if you could do one of these? I'd really like to see: star trek comics pilot magazine the invisibles by grant morrison heavy metal magazine judge dredd german comics (are there any? I am interested because I have never heard of comics in germany) geof darrow fantastic fOur

[@earlgrey862]

ah... actually I do these videos as they come ... but there will be a good chance of a Geof Darrow-video in the near future. And yes, there are German comics, but there are just only a few... I showed a random sample in a very old video (pan010).

[@vollsticks]

Hard Boiled severely warped my mind as a child. Amazing, amazing artist. For all his detail he's a CARTOONIST as well as an "illustrator" (I find the distinction pretty damn imortant...).

[@earlgrey862]

did you see that new artbook "lead poisoning" from Darrow... it's mindboggling as well!

[@archangel5627]

I really enjoy the Comic book but I have not seen the movie. Luv Besson is a good director and I like it when Besson makes science fiction films but I’ve heard that the movie was not a proper depiction of the original comic book material. Would you still recommend that I view the film? As always I really enjoy your break downs of these comic books. I look forward to watching another one of your videos.

[@earlgrey862]

uh, it's still a nice movie, well in large parts... you just have to forget about the comic. I guess, those who hadn't read the comic enjoyed the movie the most.

[@LukSter18998]

“not a proper depiction of the original comic book material” well put. very well put.

[@sethkumar3037]

I liked the movie & loved the Albums. Luc Bisson is a good director 5th Element

[@sethkumar3037]

Lockdown. Guy Pierce would be better Valerian

[@earlgrey862]

everybody would be a better Valerian

[@albrechtschraiber4358]

hello earl grey, I am very pleased to see you returning. the business starts again. I read valerian when I was in my mid twenties and to be honest I never found it really interesting. the art did not have any appeal to me was just too cartoony and the stories seemed to be innovative but not the most creative thing ever so I passed on getting a copy. haven't seen the movie though. eventually i'm gonna end up with never having read such a book until the end. and even your words of praise are not gonna change my opinion. maybe stupid but I was just disappointed bcos it was recommended by so many and turned out to be meh. as i said not bad science fiction but i rather read the incal series or the metabarons instead. or the stuff don lawrence has done. I just don't get it, perhaps it is just the same case is with superheroes I am just not brave enough to dive into... very good video though excited for more Sincerely, Albrecht

[@Xbale]

+Albrecht Schraiber btw I recently purchased a copy of zig et puce, which I got to know through my comic book presentation at school. Funny you said it is your favorite comic book.

[@earlgrey862]

all in all and as a series Valerian isn't important as the Incal and his visuals are of course infinitely less impressing than anything that Don Lawrence or Juan Gimenez did (even though their artstyles are hardly comparable to Meziere). But storywise it's pretty original. Did you read "Island of the children" or the first two part story with Albert?

[@Xbale]

there is an upcoming fourth world omnibus -- and kamandi, I think. The fourth world omni contains 1500 pages and yes that would be an uncomfortable book... but I think I could handle it (reading on desk). The fourth world omnibi (4 in total; the black kirby editions like "omac", "the losers", "newsboy legion" etc) are out of print and not oversized. So I think it'd be okay for me to grab the omni for a decent price? Are you done with Kirby or would that be an item you would wanna have? I've seen the King Size Kirby slipcase in your collection in one video (might also be wrong)... so what is it like?

[@earlgrey862]

You have keen eyes... yes, I bought the King Size Kirby more or less because i thought that this giant format is the only fitting for Kirby. But I don't need necessarily much more.... or rather: if I would start hunting down Kirby, it would have to be everything Kirby, the completist me would run AWOL... so: "Just" the giant tome (and some stuff here and there like it's Silver Surfer in the epic collection) and I'm fine with it.

[@Xbale]

the silver surfer epics are john buscema, right?

[@earlgrey862]

I think we're talking about different books... I meant the first Silver Surfer epic collection "when calls Galactus"

[@Xbale]

is Brian Wood's Northlanders recommendable?

[@mehernoshtarapore8902]

KROUCH yes get the omnibus versions collected 3 volumes well researched good stuff

[@warwick1150]

hav you get the new humanoids book

[@earlgrey862]

?

[@dougzurelli8328]

is there a collected edition that comes close to these gesamtausgabes ? I would like to get an english hardcover

[@earlgrey862]

nope, I don't think so. The only english edition that I know of is that softcover one from Cinebook.

[@albrechtschraiber4358]

has humanoids published a valerian edition?

[@earlgrey862]

I don't think so.

[@LukSter18998]

Did Valerian reference Moebius or Arzach at one issue? also of course George Lucas hasn’t said he ripped it off because he never said anything about clearly plagarising Dune.

[@earlgrey862]

as to your question: honestly, can't remember, I should re-read Valerian pronto

[@LukSter18998]

@@earlgrey862heroes of the equinox

[@daniel881985]

Great to see new content from you, and a great presentation of this series! I really want to get all the Carlsen GAs but postpone them every time for other books. Like, I just discovered this and couldn't resist, looks so fascinating that I need to try it out. Maybe also something you could be interested in round-not-square.com/de/portfolio/shipwreck/

[@earlgrey862]

thanks for the tip... it took me less than 5 minutes to decide that I can't live without it. Love this kind of stuff. As to the Carlsen GAs: Don't wait too long. I could still hit me every day for not achieving the Luc Orient GAs from Ehapa when they were still available.

[@albrechtschraiber4358]

luc orient is another series that I read why don't you grab the albums they are not so expensive and have something to offer... it's a good reading experience.

[@earlgrey862]

as to Luc Orient: Yes, I've bought some Bastei Albums for dirt cheap. That's really nice wacky old fashioned scifi... so nice and wacky that my inner collector cries "I want them in these nice books that had been right there under your nose for centuries in the comicshop but you never ever had the heart to pick them up, you doofus"!

[@daniel881985]

You're welcome! I always wait too long with german books. The Valerian & Veronique GA 1 was already sold out but they reprinted it not so long ago. Your Luc Orient, what I didn't knew about and now I also desire to have thank you >/, is for example the Bruno Brazil GA Vol 1. It's so expensive now. What keeps me away from buying German books is most of the time the fixed price and thereby the lack of offers.

[@SeresTheZocker]

Ach ja die gute Namensänderung damit man ne Alliteration hat

[@earlgrey862]

ja, is schon sehr sophisticated :/

[@blueg8731]

A kid on too much coffee, all right. He ruined the movie for me. I´ll stick to the comics.

[@LukSter18998]

Not impressed with the final comics. Not impressed with the final “ending” of this impressive and mighty series. Bessons adaptation makes me very sad it was just computers and other celebrities. Something that groundbreaking needs to be adapted better than just a large computer screen… and i think Besson made coffee out of his own brains going to promote or reach out to promote Valerian et Laureline.

[@ulrikmortensen9426]

The movie is extremely disappointing. Besson seems set to massacre the best french comics😢😢😢😢😢

[@LukSter18998]

besson the butcher!