This mixing plugin’s best kept secret!

[@EDNOSVEVO]

Your channel is enough for me to become a pro bruh! Really the one of the best for mixing and mastering, It would be nice if you post some production tips that pros do that helps for mixing and mastering

[@EdThorne]

"Gain-Changing" technique! I now use it in every mix!

[@panorama_mastering]

The gain is now changed!

[@cefk9944]

@@panorama_mastering You have changed your gain-setting! Windows will restart your computer now to apply those settings. /joke .. I couldn't stop myself .. sorry 🤣

[@bennycole1257]

My best kept secret: I run EVERY vocal through Melodyne, even when I’m not tuning. The leveler function balances the relative volume of each syllable, and it’s very easy to make fine adjustments after the global once-over. It’s pretty rare I have to automate after this step unless it’s for a creative purpose. 😊 Not to mention: “esses” and breaths can be controlled individually. Super easy to go back and re-set levels if the compressor(s) later down the chain bring up things I don’t want.

[@panorama_mastering]

Great tip! Thanks for sharing!

[@Superscan2027]

Yes, it works great, but will also raise your breaths too!

[@bennycole1257]

@@Superscan2027 True, but melodic content and “noise” like breaths are separated. Super easy to go in and alter the gain levels afterwards, even on a macro scale. Anything that saves me from automating 18 tracks of vocals is a win in my workflow. I’d rather point and click then adjust as needed after the fact.

[@rmullhaupt]

In a similar vein-I recently discovered a feature in Melodyne that allows you to level vocals in a very similar way. It has a macro to “make loud notes quieter” and “make quiet notes louder” and I’d love to hear your thoughts on it maybe in a future video?

[@CarsonHoy]

Worth the price of the plugin, my lord!

[@RoodyCall]

I need to check that out

[@panorama_mastering]

A few people mentioned this and I must look into it!

[@alex-esc]

I do a similar thing, I use RX's leveler module with the preserve dynamics setting off and the de breath and de ess settings on. This rides the vocal, de esses a bit and sets the RMS to a desired target. I use this with RX's batch processor to "ride" all the vocals before they go into the DAW. That way I start the mix with already consistent vocals, then I compress for colour and to catch the rare peaks!

[@panorama_mastering]

Nice! My only qualm with this is post edits or refinements. I like being able to change the automation line where if and when needed

[@seanlees842]

what exactly are your leveler settings? optimise for music presumably - but then what for target level, responsiveness and de-ess and de-breath? also does it matter what level the vocals are feeding into the leveler module or does it seem to get it right transparently anyway

[@casualintrovert207]

@@seanlees842I do the same thing as him, and I generally put the target level to -18 as the analog modeled plugins I like to use usually reccomend a level of -18. I do this and also before anything I look at the spectrograph on RX and cut everything below the lowest note of the vocals. RX cuts with a linear phase filter so you don’t need to worry about any phase issues. One thing you can also do if you have vocals that aren’t as clean is to use the deconstruct filter and set it to remove noisy components using the frequency selector on the spectrograph to only select from the lowest note to around the start of the upper mids. Doing that can really help to clean up any noise in between the frequencies of your vocal and make it sound more pure overall.

[@alex-esc]

@@panorama_mastering yeah it's definitely not perfect. I stick with doing it on RX because my DAW, Ableton live, lacks a latch automation mode. My plan is to save up to a perpetual PT license and mix in there and do funky audio mangling and production on Ableton, for the time being I use live for everything ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@alex-esc]

@@seanlees842 the leveler module does simple gain automation, so it's as transparent as manual automation. For a target level I aim for -18 RMS mostly just because I've been working around that number for years. Many plugins are calibrated at that level and I've set up my parallel effects to be calibrated so they react like I want at that level. You can use any target you want and gain up or down if you're going into an analog modeled plugin ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I use the dialogue setting BTW, the music setting seems to work best to make dynamic songs into consistent sausages rather than dialogue or vocals.

[@TokyoSpeirs]

I like when the invisible drumsticks come out. Even when looping a vocal , there's a groove there. 2:30

[@MrRzk600]

😂

[@panorama_mastering]

I find groove in everything.

[@happyshadow]

Sonnox Voca has the very best transparent auto levelling I've heard. You can then use the beautiful sounding compression it has built in a tiny bit to smooth the leveling out. I just strait up print it on all vox before starting the mix and it's such a satisfying way to begin

[@Bmarr33]

Great vid. You are one of the few folks I trust for solid information. Top man on the job.

[@panorama_mastering]

I appreciate that!

[@wayveemusic]

Agreed, you got my insta sub!

[@MakePopMusic]

brother your videos are WILDLY good!

[@panorama_mastering]

Glad you like them! I appreciate that.

[@kashkai999]

Brother i’ve learned so much about engineering these last weeks and mostly thanks to you!! I pull out the notebook every time u upload😅

[@panorama_mastering]

Great to hear! Happy to help!!!

[@agork]

Remember boys and girls, that over consistency can translate into boring. You want something to poke out and something to surprise and something to be a bit twangy and a bit of fret noise here and there. If it adds character and charm, it is not a problem. This is hard for me to write as I am a perfectionist myself, but it is true nonetheless.

[@panorama_mastering]

You're not wrong!

[@alesnovak2906]

Great tip.I usually pass the vocal thru MV2 which has upward(and downward) leveling before any automation.SImilar result.

[@happyshadow]

Brings up room noise, breaths and esses though no?

[@alesnovak2906]

@@happyshadow Well if you are driving a fader you are also bringing some room noise for the amount of decibels you add to the signal.If you are recording in the studio environment a couple DB's of room noise is insignificant.Every compression or leveling is bringing breaths up relative to the loudest parts of the signal.

[@adamsmith7058]

Whatever works for you, but, good as it is, MV2 would not be my first choice for vocals.

[@thedevilsadvocate5210]

Shouldn't you remove the bag sounds and ruin room noise if you are worried about it?

[@DaftFader]

When I very first started mixing, before I'd even learn how or what a compressor actually did, I would mostly deal with levels just using volume, and vocal rider automation was the first tool I turned to to help with that. It's such a simple idea, but so powerful, I don't know why it wasn't though of sooner tbh, and I remember when it first came out people's jaws dropped cos it just made so much sense as a plug in. That's why it's barely changed in 15 years.

[@panorama_mastering]

Thanks for sharing!

[@TheMixAcademy]

You’re a beast! Keep up the grind, man!

[@panorama_mastering]

Thanks! Will do!

[@RAR.684]

best channel i discovered from a lot of time 💣 Goat

[@panorama_mastering]

Appreciate that! Thank you’

[@exposingyouthetruth6443]

You can make it work on the single tracks, and then have a group with all vocals where it adjusts overall loudness listening to the instrumental

[@panorama_mastering]

Bang on!

[@Busmagnus]

Neat! i usually use vocal rider on a vocal group track to even out the volume when several vocals plays simultaneously. I honestly never thought about using it as an gain clip automation before hitting a compressor.

[@panorama_mastering]

Nicen try it out let me know how you go!

[@thesaint7380]

Thanks a lot for bringing this up ! I somehow knew that i was underestimating what Vocalrider can do 🙈

[@essouna]

It's crazy but i never knew i could write the vocal rider automation 😂😂😂 thanks for that

[@catonlsd3]

hmm.... the automation drawn by the plugin looks very similar to RMS detection ... I wonder if having a suited vari-mu compressor (rms detection, vari-mu ratio, program dependent action) will achieve very similar results... but then... how about a vari-mu expander? :D (can simulate that with a transient shaper relatively-slower sustain)

[@TripleU_WU]

this is great

[@SiQuemaCuhh]

Couple questions just cause i might be confusing myself, Are you setting the bottom range at -8 because that was the difference or because you found that worked best? Also are u always using the quietest part of a phrase and comparing to the loudest in that same section or could you also use the quietest phrase and loudest phrases in the song ? Thanks very much for these tips. You've helped me out alot

[@panorama_mastering]

Always using the wuitest to loudest and yes -8 was the difference in THIS circumstance

[@mattmullin33609]

This looks solid. I’ve been using Nectar 4 auto-level and love it. I still go in and clip gain a word or 2 here and there and tame esses, yet it’s fast. I’ll have to try to see if this is quicker! Great tip 👍🏻

[@panorama_mastering]

No sweat! Let me know how you go!

[@SuperFake777]

Dude same!

[@PascoCounty-d5f]

Thank you so much for going through this. Loved this and it will be used.

[@panorama_mastering]

You are so welcome!

[@walshythemusician]

Excellent. Am I correct in assuming that "0" on the vocal rider fader doesn't correspond to an actual level of 0 dB in the signal? In other words, if vocal rider fader rides up to "0", that doesn't mean that it is actually riding the signal to a volume of 0 dB.

[@TadjhBrooks]

No, notice how he sets the target at the top of the plugin to be -22.2dB. This means when the VocalRider fader is at the idle red line which he set at -4.0dB the channel loudness will match the target of -22.2dB. This means when the VocalRider fader is at 0dB in the plugin, the loudness of the audio will be +4dB above the target, or -18.2dB at its peak.

[@DaftFader]

You can set 0 on vocal rider to what ever reference level you want.

[@panorama_mastering]

Spot on what tadjih said!

[@walshythemusician]

@@TadjhBrooks thanks! I will have to experiment with this.

[@QueMusiQ]

2:34 😂😂😂 @ him bobbing his head to the loop.

[@panorama_mastering]

Every loop deserves a bop!

[@django3108]

When I learned about clip gain by cutting up tracks, it changed my life. When I learned that I could just turn on a clipgain line in Reaper instead of cutting up a track a million times... it changed my life AGAIN😂

[@panorama_mastering]

Haha lovely!

[@SuperFake777]

Would this kill the natural dynamics of the vocalist? I use nectar auto level mode which brings things into range of the target up or down by 3 db so if the vocalist was softer on one part they still would be but it’s a little more even I usually set target to -9 db so my loudest parts are peaking -6

[@panorama_mastering]

Depends how you dial it in.

[@1loveMusic2003]

I use vocal rider on bass guitar too. It's great

[@DaftFader]

Wave's also has "bass rider" vocal rider is more tuned for the frequencies in vocals, so you might get a better result with bass rider as it's tuned for bass and will "listen" slightly differently and pick up changes in the low end levels better. It's otherwise basically the same plug in, just with a differently tuned frequency band that it listens to and also I think the time response is better suited for bass too.

[@panorama_mastering]

Have you tried bass rider?

[@1loveMusic2003]

No I'm too cheap to buy both. I just change it to slow. Haha@@panorama_mastering

[@makemusicordie]

That’s pretty awesome info! :)

[@synaikido]

Nice, but isn‘t fader automation kicking in post plugins? At least for logic pro thats definitely the case. Which means compressors on the track won‘t be affected by the fader automation. You would need to send the track to a bus and put the Compressor there for the auomation to affect its reaction 🙂

[@southernman2]

He's talking about gain automation not fader automation

[@synaikido]

@@southernman2 yes, but isn‘t the vocal rider plugin writing to the gain of the fader?

[@synaikido]

@@southernman2ah oh okay, it‘s writing the gain of the vocal rider plugin - nevermind and thanks! 🙂

[@southernman2]

@@synaikido no it's writing to "clip gain"

[@DaftFader]

The fader that is controlling the volume is inside vocal rider. So if you put it first in your chain, the volume will be changed going into everything else. If you put it after, it will be after (but it will also write the automation after listening to the whole chain too if set up that way). In "write" mode, It writes automation for it's self to later read when set back to read mode, and it changes the volume it's self. You can make it write to other places too, depending on your DAW. You can make it write to clip gain in pro tools (afaik)... or to the fader, It just depends on how you set up the automation writing (you can also cut/copy and paste all the automation to anything else too if you really wanted), but as a default it will write and read automation for it's self to adjust the volume at whatever point in the chain it is inserted.

[@DigitalDemonForge]

daaammnn i had this plugin for years and completely forgot what can be done with it lol thanks for the refresh !!

[@panorama_mastering]

No worries! My pleasureb

[@dwightdeon2421]

Dude... this is brilliant. I've had this plugin for a few years but never used it. Couldn't figure out how to set it correctly, because of this volume differential and not knowing where to set the middle point. I'm old school. I'd just draw everything in, and it sucks. Will be trying this technique on my next mix. thank you for this.

[@panorama_mastering]

Awesome! Let me know how you go with it!

[@tigerbevtz]

Using this technique your vocal goes -5 dB , do you clipgain up 5db after the automation is made or do you leave it as it is? Also, do you print the automation on the vocal once its done or do you leave the plugin on?

[@panorama_mastering]

Yeap, I gain back up on the output 5dB I don’t print/commit the plugin I levar it on with the automation lane open, so I can edit on the fly if I need tk in the session

[@tigerbevtz]

@@panorama_mastering thanks man 👌🏽

[@InVisionsynthmindscape]

Great useful video! Saluti dall'Italia - Torino 👍🙂

[@panorama_mastering]

Thanks mate!!

[@phadrus]

I appreciate this approach and have been thinking about trying this so nice to have some guidelines. One thing that puzzles me-why is it that the plugin drops the highs by 8db but only raises the lowes by 4db? I think that’s good for the track, but based on the setup I would have expected the increase to be 8db too.

[@TadjhBrooks]

He metered the loudest and most quiet parts with Insight. I imagine whatever metering is used in VocalRider is tuned especially for vocals whereas insight is tuned for metering many sound sources and is more neutral in tone. This could be where the discrepancy in VocalRider's fader moves comes from.

[@panorama_mastering]

Spot on!

[@cryptoparking]

This is so amazing thanks!

[@samphelps856]

I'm desperate. "Enable Automation for "Rider Fader"" I feel like such a unPro Tool(s), no matter what combos of clicking left, right, control, option, command, shift I don't have that dropdown. Which means I can't use the technique. Any advice? I'm desperate! 4:51

[@DaftFader]

I don't use protools, but you probably have to enable that menu in the settings somewhere I would imagine.

[@panorama_mastering]

Cmd alt cntrl + click

[@samphelps856]

@@panorama_mastering Godmode!

[@yllekjs76]

I set it to quite extreme settings and copy the automation to my fx send which creates a ducker

[@stevegeorge7773]

I’m just wondering if one uses -14dbs as opposed to -18. What type of adjustment would one want for calibrating the plug in you use in the demo presented?

[@DigitalDemonForge]

after doing some refresh with this plugin...i know some call me stupid but this works like charm with other things not just vocals :) Is there's anyone else who uses plugins for purposes it wasn't designed for?

[@newguy6935]

Can use Melodyne's volume leveling feature, too.

[@Maskaradas]

After watching your vid where you volume matched lowest bass fundamentals, I've tried using Waves Bassrider. Been wondering if this achieves similar result, because immediately, I did notice improvement.

[@DaftFader]

Bass rider is basically the exact same plugin, just tuned to work for bass better (eg: it listens to a different frequency band, and has a different time response etc..) ;)

[@panorama_mastering]

Bang on!

[@maseylorenzo5475]

first time that i've understood how it works that write automation

[@panorama_mastering]

Yeap! It works a treat

[@joeEnrique]

tanks had this plugin but never get it right

[@panorama_mastering]

Let me know how you go!

[@Adziakowsky]

Actually you don't need waves plugin to do it. Reaper or even FL have the build in option to draw gain automation of every clip you want and adjust it later.

[@Sliver90]

tutorial on reaper, please

[@adamsmith7058]

You can draw it in Protools as well. What he's doing is showing that you can make that an automated process and save time by not having to laboriously draw automation for every vocal part. This is a real pain if you have loads of parts you need to control in terms of volume. Using a plugin like this saves significant time. Unless there's a way of writing volume automation like this in Reaper and FL without using a plugin. I would definitely be interested if you can do that, since I use both DAWs.

[@panorama_mastering]

But automatically???

[@riorich]

User since Cakewalk DOS., pre Audio. I knew I had this plug-in. I just went through my binder and could not find it. When you said Waves, I knew I got rid of it. I have over 800 plug-ins, and deleted maybe 400 of them. Trying to trouble shoot my DAW all these years and upgrade to the latest CPU's, Nvme Drives. MB or HD failures, I don't overclock. Every time I upgraded anything, Waves had their hand out, and was limiting the amount changes I could do. Wanted like $800 for things, I already paid for, or I could wait a year. No one else gave me a problem, and I even have an ilok. Where they put their folders wasn't standard, never again. Screw me once, and that's it.

[@clintyoung9902]

Thoughts on this vs. say Waves MV2?

[@panorama_mastering]

None, haven’t used waves mv2 before

[@periurban]

I'm confused. Are you automating so that you can turn the plugin off and rely on the envelope? Why not just keep the plugin? It's not processing any audio, so the overhead should be minimal. I don't understand what you gain (pardon the pun).

[@davidasher22]

You write automation so you can fix it after the fact. If you relied on the plugin you couldn’t control its end behavior.

[@periurban]

@@davidasher22 Ah, that does make sense! I thought I was paying too much attention to amplitudes by using minimal envelopes (compared to what I see here). But it does make sense if you can ride the faders instead of compressing. Takes me back to the good old days! lol

[@panorama_mastering]

Spot on!

[@Griuofficial]

Thanks for the video

[@panorama_mastering]

No problem!

[@calvinwilliams4181]

Could you just do this in the audio suite and not even have to deal with the plugin anymore after you render it?

[@panorama_mastering]

You could, but I like having the flexibility to edit the automation line

[@horizonofficial5422]

This amazing, but how I can make in FL?😅

[@witnessthelightmusic]

Clutch!!

[@panorama_mastering]

Cheers

[@public_hell]

Cool feature, I wish it could process all the clips in the project in offline mode (like AudioSuite)

[@panorama_mastering]

Yeah, but the magic in this is going back to edit and tweak the automation line when and if you need to!

[@public_hell]

@@panorama_mastering Yes, yes, I understand. In Reaper, I can do the same trick for the whole 1-hour podcast in 30 seconds (and tweak the line afterward) and I wish it could be possible in PT.

[@dustyowl8070]

@@public_hell you mean using the same plugin, how it is possible? (I am using Reaper also)

[@public_hell]

@@dustyowl8070 no, not the same, but "Envelope-based Compressor" script. You just select all the items on your timeline and run the script. Then you can tweak the settings in the compressor, listen and adjust those envelopes to your taste.

[@nils2660]

You're the best guy to learn from

[@panorama_mastering]

Thanks man!

[@alexdow8042]

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@lifermusik]

🤯🔥🔥🔥

[@georgwalt7978]

"Write the automatic riding to an automation track for fine tuning." chapter 1 of the manual. "Secret" you keep using that word - i dont think it means what you think it means

[@TadjhBrooks]

People don't read the manual my man

[@panorama_mastering]

Bang on! I am guilty of that! RTFM

[@QueMusiQ]

0:43 😳Say WHUT??!?

[@paulandrewroberts7622]

Just use melodyne macros!!!!! It's just better and faster!!!!!!!!!! It's the second video you use this and waste timeeeeeeeee I love your videos! I'm just trying to help!!!!

[@panorama_mastering]

Thanks for the tip! Trust me, I will be trying this out!

[@ziqinggu6085]

I prefer MAuto Volume than Vocal Rider, M AutoVolume is better.

[@panorama_mastering]

Fair enough!

[@SamuelAlli]

What's the added benefits of doing this over just compressing the vocal? Recording on a Rode NT1 in a good but not perfectly treated room, sometimes using an LA-2A to squash the peaks and an 1176 to boost the troughs can dirty my vocal or change the tone when I don't want it to. In theory, would using this method be a somewhat "cleaner" way of compressing the vocal without changing the tone?

[@kerwyncollier2408]

This helps for great gain staging before hitting a comp.

[@tylarex]

This ^​@@kerwyncollier2408

[@TadjhBrooks]

You can compress more aggressively if your vocal is balanced going into the compressor. You can score a lot more tone from the compressor and hear less audible pumping.

[@DaftFader]

It helps even out your compression. Say you want to hit the quiet part by -20db of compression, but the loudest part is +20db from the quietest part. With a 4:1 ratio you will have to compress the loud part something like -35db(!) to get your -20db compression on the quiet part (which will most likely sound like too much, and you'll end up having to compromise and dial back to less compression that you actually want for the quiet part). That's a slightly over the top example, but it's for the purpose of explanation, however in some songs you may actually encounter similar numbers on occasion. Automating the gain first allows you to apply roughly the same amount of compression to both the loud and quiet parts of a track, and you don't get a ton more compression in one section, and a bunch less in another. It gives a much more overall consistent and smooth sounding compression, and allows you to hit the quiet parts a lot harder without having to hit the louder parts even harder, and much harder than you may want. On a side note, if clean compression is what you're after, I'd consider not choosing such coloured compressors. The LA-2A and 1176 (revs A-E) are usually used precisely because of the tone they impart on the sound, if you don't want that, then maybe they aren't the correct choice for that song. ;)

[@panorama_mastering]

This is all prep for processing and compressors so they don’t have to work super hard/pump

[@ghfjfghjasdfasdf]

Glad Pro Tools is allowing you to make a living again…

[@rmullhaupt]

Reporting back because I stole this and it kicked ass

[@panorama_mastering]

Haha amazing to hear!

[@deadislander]

I'm too lazy to do this I will 10 times out of 10 use a compressor

[@DaftFader]

Most people who use this also compress afterwards. It's not usually used as a replacement, it's to get better results out of your compression (more consistency in the compression applied). Before vocal rider was a thing, but long after compressors first became a stable in mixing, people still used to do this volume automation but by hand (and some still do)! This way you're not compressing the +12db loudest parts way more aggressively than the quietest parts, and everything is being compressed by roughly the same amount give or take only a few db. It gives a much more even and smooth sound to your compression. Especially on things like upfront main vocals, where we are so used to hearing people speak, any weirdness in the dynamics of someone's voice can be noticeable to even the most unmusical of ears. It does take a fair bit of time and effort though, which is why it's use is generally reserved to only the most important of elements like vox and bass.

[@panorama_mastering]

Spot on what Daft Fader said!

[@phantom_him]

I like your videos, man. I'm not being a dick when I say this. You could improve them by not gesticulating so much at the start, lol. I look away at the start of every video because I feel like my eyes are being attacked.

[@panorama_mastering]

Haha sorry man! What do you mean by geaticulate!?

[@phantom_him]

@@panorama_masteringYou wave your arms around too much. : p

[@davidasher22]

Only way to use this plugin imho. Otherwise you’re never completely happy with what it’s doing.

[@panorama_mastering]

Yeap took me a while. I struggled with it for a bit

[@kedskies]

You look like tristian tate

[@amitabhaelliott]

X-Rider is way better.

[@panorama_mastering]

Nice! What about it do you like better?

[@Wizardofvoz2]

Waves sux

[@GrisibagageSnnaa-qz6zw]

Tooo washy