Part 11: Calvinism, Culture, and Orthodoxy

Metropolitan Jonah Paffhausen wraps up his apologetics classes on Calvinism by summarizing its main points in contrast to Orthodoxy. 12 May 2021. Stafford, VA.

[@gigig2492]

These videos are a huge blessing. Thank you. ☦️

[@ThruTheUnknown]

It was a good discussion on how calvinism got so entangled in our culture. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for the video.

[@thestudiooftamraglaser5390]

Glad to see these uploads return, thank you Vladyka❤️☦️

[@jcwalker64]

I picked up on Orthodox Church being Hierarchical. I have generally flourished as an engineer in organizations staffed by former military that structure a company in a hierarchical fashion. The one departure during my 33 year career was the 21 months at America Online, AOL. It was matrix managed. There were no published org charts. As a project engineer you learned who the key decision maker or facilitator for things you needed accomplished via conversations around the water cooler or coffee pot in the breakroom. Once a month they would bring in kegs of beer on the lawn and give away swag from all the vendors that had sold electronics gear to AOL. That provided another avenue to learn who could assist you with a project. The data centers had lighting that would turn off when you were not suppose to be working on gear, which was during peak traffic periods. Friday afternoons the offices cleared out because customers were online getting their emails to make weekend plans so you hit up one of the wineries or breweries in Loudoun County with your coworkers as changes to the network were prohibited. As were they surrounding elections when people checked to see if the candidate they voted for won the race. Who could help your project get from point A to across the finish line changed constantly so you had to continually mix and mingle, your rolodex was out of date before you finished a project. Each building on the sprawling campus was called a Creative Center, CC1, CC2, CC3, etc. It did spawn innovation that propelled AOL to be number one online provider in the infancy of Internet, but at same time the inmates were running the prison.

[@joshuaduncan235]

Thank you from an ex-Calvinist. I wish I could talk with Vladyka further about Covenant theology because that still shapes a lot of my thinking about Scripture. I think there are overlaps with Orthodoxy but I’d like to sort out the differences.

[@joshuaduncan235]

There is a bit of conflation between Covenant Theology and Dispensationalism in this video. Covenant theology and Dispensationalism are opposed in a lot of ways. Covenant theology rejects the idea that the Covenant with Moses continues for the Jews. Dispensationalists believe the Temple will be restored, but Covenant rejects that idea. There are other differences as well. I’m not an academic theologian, but I am familiar with the theology-I graduated with an MDiv from Covenant Theological Seminary.

[@jterrellielli7058]

@@joshuaduncan235 Not sure it’s that cut and dry. There seems to be debate about supersessionism withing Calvinist circles. rts.edu/resources/what-are-some-misconceptions-about-covenant-theology/

[@Isthishandletakenalready]

Thank you. My thoughts as well. I don't feel i can trust the source if they aren't able to accurately articulate the opposing view​@@joshuaduncan235

[@TrinitarianPentecostalNectar]

The Calvinistic system is a grid that is placed over Holy Scripture and twists the Gospel.

[@jcwalker64]

Your declaration that departing from the official doctrine of the elders of the Pilgrim's churches earned someone a one-way ticket out of not only the church but also the community intrigued me in your talk. After graduating High School I so wanted to go to Purdue's main campus in West Lafayette, IN where many of my friends went but my parents would not sign off on student loans. That meant living at home and attending the campus Purdue shared in Indianapolis with Indiana University. As I drove 30 minutes to the IUPUI campus each day over 5 years, most often my route took me past the boarded up and abandoned movie theater where Jim Jones launched his ministry before moving out West and eventually to Guyana. The letters on the marquee were long gone but sun had faded the background that you could still make out his name. Driving past it I could not help but wonder what sort of spell that he had over so many to drink the kool-aide that led to their untimely death. I believe that it was the origin of a vow to never be undiscerning in a community of faith. That has often put me at odds when I don't tow the party line, as you mentioned about the Pilgrims that did not buy in hook, line and sinker and thus found themselves having to move out of town.

[@marysmith733]

Thanks!

[@MaximusWolfe]

Thank you, Vladika!

[@TrinitarianPentecostalNectar]

Pentecostalism is a reconnecting to the foundational apostolic faith in the book of Acts and following through on the command of our Lord in Acts 1.

[@akdobbertin]

Thank you for the upload! Great topic as well

[@burkhardschmorell3973]

This is pretty good, but you guys get a little lost in the weeds regarding covenant theology. It only superficially resembles dispensationalism, but in fact it sees itself as the mirror opposite. Dispensationalism believes there were literally two separate and distinct economies of salvation in the Old and New Testaments, two different ways to the saved. Covenant theology believes that there has always been one way of salvation, one covenant of grace, all down through redemptive history, and that Moses was simply a different expression thereof. To the Calvinist mind, the Catholic and Orthodox interpretation of Paul's Epistle to the Romans sounds like dispensationalism, because in those worldviews "faith" (as opposed to "law") is not literal, but a shorthand for the entire economy of salvation under Jesus. The Calvinist, by contrast, reads "law" in Romans (and Galatians) as Paul's figure of speech for an artificial, works-based scheme to earn salvation, whereas the Calvinist inconsistently sees "faith" as literal and solitary, not entailing any universe of moral commandments or liturgical prescriptions.

[@YourBoyJohnny94]

Calvinists do believe in 2 sacraments Baptism and Communion. The Presbyterian and Dutch Calvinists did have have hierarchies not as expanded like the EO or RC though.

[@andrew_blank]

Thought the characterization of evangelicalism being a weird / complex synthesis of TULIP and at the same time not accepting it in all aspects was pretty spot on

[@Isthishandletakenalready]

I'm having trouble watching this beyond 23 minutes the I'm at, because I'm not sure if the priest was getting input from the students to give them a chance to speak or if he couldn't remember what the 5 points were. Then he gave a poor explanation of covenantalism as if it were the same thing as dispensationalism . Also downplayed the calvinists litergy as if no thought is given to it, at least with the PCA and Orthodox Presbyterian church they have the regulative principal to inform what goes on in worship. Most calvinists i know are amillennial . I would be more convinced to finish listening to the orthodox arguments against calvinism if i had more confidence both sides were thoroughly understood.

[@kronos77]

I would object to your characterization of the 30 years war as a religious war. It was about sovereignty. The Catholic elector of Bavaria was initially undecided as to whose side he would take. Protestant Saxony changed sides a few times. Catholic France allied with Protestants against the Emperor. Denmark fought with Sweden. Many protestants fought for the Emperor.

[@PETERJOHN101]

I cannot find the first 10 segments of this series. Can you post links in the video description area?

[@Sainthermanofalaskastaffordva]

kzbin.info/aero/PLwu3v8uE8jDyUBRDyWyo0CiVLNMD1f_hG

[@TrinitarianPentecostalNectar]

Pentecostals believe Glorification is Sanctification completed. Sanctification is Glorification begun by the power of the Holy Spirit forming us into Christ’s image. Being made partakers of the Divine nature. We also believe in the fivefold ministry (ascension gifts) Apostles Prophets Pastors Evangelists Teachers Ephesians 4

[@nathan010810]

How many people here are ex-Calvinist and if so, have you been told that you never were Calvinists? I see that all too much. If you truly understood, you never would have left, and if you “left”, you never truly understood and were never truly in. Calvinism is so full of circular reasoning. I’m regularly told that I’d get it if I just “read my bible”.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

Pre millennial means Jesus comes and then reigns for a thousand years Post millennial means that there will be a period of Utopia (the millennium) and then Jesus comes back Amillenial means we're currently in a symbolic thousand year reign and Jesus will come sometime, we don't know when. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialism#/media/File%3AMillennial_views.svg Also, there is a concept of transformative glorification and union with Christ, but... it's definitely not the focus and not the center of salvation. And no one would call it theosis.

[@naminaoberhausen2131]

In addition to postmillenialist belief being that Jesus comes after the 1000 year reign, it is important to note that they believe his "second coming" and millenial reign already happened. Which is important because if Jesus already came, then that means that if postmillenialists are wrong, they would think the antichrist is christ. But they don't talk about that.

[@TrinitarianPentecostalNectar]

Scriptures must be read by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. That is the Pentecostal position.

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

56:20 Ok, But Apostle Paul says the opposite? Doesn’t he ? In Romans 11:17 and so forth. Please, comment on this.

[@michaelkingsbury4305]

The dominant faith before the Revolution was the Church of England, afterwards was Methodism, which started as a renewal of Anglicanism. The Church of England was tolerant of the Calvinists to a point for political reasons, Methodism was strongly opposed, but did accept total depravity and predestination (as understood as God's forknowledge). The 39 Articles are not vague but very clearly derived from Patristic Christianity. Sorry prayers to the Saints.

[@TheMOV13]

To this day there are places in Germany where people will ask "Are you protestant or normal?"

[@LoftOfTheUniverse]

You can be pre mill and not be dispensationalists. Didn't the church fathers expect a 1000 year reign then a judgment and then the eternal reign?

[@joshf2218]

Largely no, especially those after the 4th century

[@naminaoberhausen2131]

Look at the writings of the earliest church fathers, they believed in millenial day theory and a literal millenial reign

[@naminaoberhausen2131]

And yes there are plenty of premillenialists who are not dispensationalists

[@sampayne2202]

As a historically rooted Reformed Christian (Presbyterian), this video is hard to watch. Almost everything stated about reformed theology is a mischaracterization, or just flat out wrong. A few of the audience members know more about reformed theology than the Metropolitan, but even their descriptions are misguided. Saying Covenant theology is similar to dispensationalism is just the tip of the spear of misinformation. Those two concepts are direct opposites. Calvin himself talked about the person and work of the Holy Spirit more than almost any other topic. His emphasis on the Spirit's work in the life of the believer was a recovery of doctrine that had been pushed aside in the West. The right administration of the sacraments (I know we disagree on the number, but that doesn't make us "anti-sacramental") is one of the three marks of the church in reformed theology. Some reformed Christians following the Zwinglian line do have a symbolic-only view of the eucharist, but most of the "big name" reformed folks and movements disagreed (Calvin, Vermigli, Bucer, Bullinger, Knox, Westminster assembly, Canons of Dort, etc.). I could go on and on, but hopefully my point is somewhat clear. There are legitimate critiques that can be brought against Calvinism, but this is a really un-informed attempt at explaining things without much knowledge of the subject. This man seems intelligent and appears to be a good teacher, but please study the subject before teaching. A lot of the misinformation seems to stem from pre-conceived prejudices about this system of theology.

[@newsman1234]

How slovenly and uncouth for a church leader to be eating during his presentation.

[@TrinitarianPentecostalNectar]

With respect your reference to Pentecostalism is quite shallow and unlearned.

[@nathan010810]

How so?

[@TrinitarianPentecostalNectar]

@@nathan010810 hi my brother. The reason for my comment is that Pentecost is much more diverse and nuanced than he is describing. We also have our foundation in scripture and Trinitarian Pentecost does not conflate salvation with glossolalia.

[@nathan010810]

@@TrinitarianPentecostalNectar Thanks for the clarification. At times I wonder whether generalisations can be avoided especially when videos are already creeping close to or over the hour mark, but I do agree that if a generalisation risks being misleading then something more is required. Do you think the absence of nuance here results from a lack or awareness or a willingness to mislead? I think probably the prior although if one is going to criticise then one needs to be aware that not everything is so simple and extra work needs to be done. Having said that, I have found that Calvinists on the web tend to be more guilty of this than anyone (claims of straw manning without explanation and outright dismissing people as semi Pelegian with no substantial argument) and so am surprised to see it here.

[@TrinitarianPentecostalNectar]

@@nathan010810 agreed, the prior. I also truly see more unity between Pentecostalism and Patristic thought than with Calvinistic determinism’s TULIP.

[@davidstrickland1412]

Love the video, but the kid is distracting.

[@Sainthermanofalaskastaffordva]

Thanks for watching. If the church ain’t cryin it’s dyin.

[@naminaoberhausen2131]

What did Jesus have to say about the kids being around? Seems like he has said something about that... lol