Part 2 - Electrical Engineer Explains - Modifying My Generator For Floating vs. Bonding Neutral!

[@1lug]

I was thinking of doing this but had the idea of using a key switch instead of a toggle so it can't accedently be bumped to the wrong position. Thanks for these vids, far clearer than anything else I've seen on this subject!

[@Walt-c9m]

Great content thank you for your time making these videos. In your first video you said that generators come bonded. But i have seen many generators especially ones to small to run your house that come floating neutral. Some of these generators have the proper outlet for transfer switch and some don’t. My question is what is the intent of the manufacturer selling these floating neutral generators?

[@usafchief8985]

Can the L14-30 receptacle on the portable generator by its self have a floating neutral, while maintaining a bonded neutral for the 20A 120V receptacles, so that they can be used while powering the house with the L14-30 receptacle? Or as shown in your previous video, you detailed how to isolate the ground at the inlet plug box to prevent that dual path to ground. In this scenario would the 20A 120V receptacles be usable?

[@richardvedvik979]

@usafchief8985 with my process of isolating at the house receptacle, the generator can remain bonded and you can use the receptacles on the generator at the same time.

[@JR-jn8jp]

Thank you very much for your series on wiring the transfer switch and the generator modification. This may be a stupid question but wouldn't it be sufficient to keep the generator unmodified (bonded) if and only if, the ground wire from the generator is lifted as shown in your earlier video (not connected to anything in the home). Wouldn't that be sufficient allow only one path back to the generator via the home bonding in the panel? Also if there was a fault at the generator or exterior connection receptacle, then the electricity could flow thru the bonding in the generator to ground via the neutral to the home ground? Thank you for helping us understand this topic

[@richardvedvik979]

@JR-jn8jp tou are correct, my other video stands alone, allowing people to follow that step and not modify the generator.

[@olegl6776]

HI Richard, first of all let me express huge gratitude for all you hard work with find, understand, figure it out and deliver this information to us. Thank you very much for what you have done and dedicated tons of labor hours with those back up generator series of video. I am just armature with electricity and I have the following question: I have heard you mentioned you can power all priority 1 appliances with your generator except A/C unit. To answer to myself "Why a/c cannot be... " I was able to find out this is because the a/c starting amp (spike) is exciding generator max amps, please correct if I am mistaking. Have you heard about "Micro Air Easy Start " based of the video below (see link below) some enthusiasts are able to run 2.5 ton a/c with generator. What is your opinion and will "Micro Air Easy Start " unit provide any damage to a/c it self in long term run since this is permanent installation? Thank you very much in advance kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZa1kp1qfN6ca7s

[@richardvedvik979]

@@olegl6776 thank you for the comment. I'll check out the video and report back.

[@joeblow5958]

Great videos. Perfect explanations. Thank you. Question, though. I looked through all of the wiring diagrams for my GP6500, and can’t tell why the unit starts, then shuts down when neutral is lifted (and not connected to the bonded panel). The neutral line seems to have no connection to anything related to the engine. What triggers the engine to stall in that configuration?

[@joeblow5958]

Note… I don’t want to run it like that for any reason… just curious as to what’s happening there.

[@ricecompelsyou]

So am I correct in in assuming that you can use the 120v outlets on the generator with the lifted bonding switch as long as the 30amp cord is connected to the house breaker panel because the circuit is bonded in the panel?

[@richardvedvik979]

That would be correct. We need a bond, but only one bond. Then connected to the home in this configuration, the 120V receptacles can be used.

[@ctbt1832]

What if you had a subpanel in your house where the grounds and neutral were separate. Can you put the generator to the subpanel to feed those breakers with the generator bonded neutrals and grounds together? Or do you still have to separate the generator neutrals and grounds?

[@richardvedvik979]

@ctbt1832 the problem with trying to backfeed a sub panel is you cannot interlock the home's main breaker and generator breaker. So it's an unsafe condition. For bonding, there will still be two N-G bonds in the system.

[@mandfmarine]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have 2 questions to start 😂: 1.your knowledge /opinion on Inverter generators vs regular portable generator (my reason for asking is to understand what is likely to get damaged by an irregular sin Wave ((I believe 3% or 5%))) also on this note is there solution around this if it is an issue such as a surge protector. 2. A soft start for the ac. I’m looking for a portable option utilizing natural gas while running my 4 ton ac unit. I’m trying not to spend $10k, looking to run 50 amp plug , soft start, and hoping to get a 10-15kw which I know will run less converting it to ng. Also last question on these larger generators that have multiple 50amp receptacles/breakers do you have to utilize both or can you get all the power using one?

[@richardvedvik979]

In your case, I think it makes sense to have two generators. One larger generator with a local manual transfer switch to serve your A/C unit. This can have higher THD and thus will be much less expensive. The second would be a low THD generator to serve your sensitive electronics. The generator I purchased is specified as less than 5% THD, which is perfect for any modern home.

[@mandfmarine]

@@richardvedvik979 thanks for the quick response. I’m assuming you don’t have an opinion on the soft start😀 but maybe I’ll read the previous posts to see if you have possibly addressed that. Again thanks for sharing your knowledge it’s much appreciated for smooth brained apes like myself.

[@richardvedvik979]

@@mandfmarine I do have opinions on soft start, I just had time to address the first part of your question. You could install a soft-starter, but the cost of that component would likely be similar to the cost to bump up the size of the generator to compensate. Also, you cannot reduce THD with a surge suppressor or other plug-in devices like power conditioners. The only way to reduce THD is a low-pass filter.

[@mandfmarine]

@@richardvedvik979 again thank-you for your time and responses. It is very appreciated.

[@brandonwilliams2064]

My Predator has a 30amp 240v but to reach max rated output allows the additional use of 1 or both 120v outlets. Thoughts on running both house and a possible smaller load via an outlet, and the bonded vs floating issue?

[@richardvedvik979]

You'll find that you can't really load a generator fully anyway, because it needs some headroom to recover from voltage dip and frequency dip. Anytime a motor starts, it draws double it's rating. Just use the 30A 240V output, I do that on my 8500W generator and it's a perfect combination.

[@spudman9367]

Can you please give a link to the switch you installed or the rating of the switch. Thanks in advance!

[@richardvedvik979]

I thought I replied to this already, my apologies. It's a 250V rated switch with 20A contacts, which is why I wire the conductors in parallel, so I have two wires and two switch contacts for a combined rating of 40A.

[@spudman9367]

@@richardvedvik979 thanks so much!

[@thimitri1]

Can you *not* connect the neutral white wire from your inlet box to your electrical panel? would this cut the path to your generator?

[@richardvedvik979]

@thimitri1 neutral is needed, it is the path back to the source. Without the neutral, all return current would be on grounds.

[@HunterDavis-be2tp]

I've watched several of your videos on this topic, all very informative. With regard to this video and the one titled "Electrical Engineer Explains - Generator Neutral-Ground Bonding", what is your final configuration when connecting to your main panel? I believe it is floating neutral at the generator and a continuous ground between the generator and main panel, correct? I ask this because in the "Electrical Engineer Explains - Generator Neutral-Ground Bonding" video you show the ground lifted between the generator and main panel while maintaining the neutral-ground bond in the generator, I believe.

[@richardvedvik979]

Thank you for the message. The videos are in chronological order, and you are correct that my final configuration was modifying my generator to allow a floating neutral configuration so that I could maintain bonding through the generator receptacle. But the toggle switch allows me to also utilize the generator in a bonded neutral configuration for stand-alone operation.

[@derrickoneill2880]

So in your final configuration do you use a grounding electrode at the generator?

[@richardvedvik979]

@derrickoneill2880 in my final configuration, I have a floating neutral switch that let's me use the homes ground rod.

[@devnull7550]

I just saw a video titled "Unbonded my generator and started a fire!" on a KZbin channel called BluesriderDF. The video presents a scenario where unbonding a generator prevented the ground wire between the generator and the main panel from acting as a redundant neutral and nearly resulted in a fire at a surge protector. The surge protector probably deserves a large part of the blame, as it should not have overheated and melted when clamping overvoltage as it is intended to do. Also, all three connections at the plug on his generator cable were loose, so it was probably just a matter of time until something bad happened whether his generator was bonded or not. However, unbonding the generator in that scenario did imminently lead to a dangerous situation. Fire and electrical shock are both potentially fatal; so regardless of what code says, it isn't obvious to me whether a bonded or unbonded generator is more dangerous. Perhaps leaving the generator bonded and installing a GFCI breaker on the generator would be safer.

[@richardvedvik979]

@devnull7550 an unbounded generator should have both a neutral and ground wire to the genset, with the home neutral-ground bond maintained allowing for two paths from the outlet strip. That home had other code violations. Grounds are not redundant neutrals, they are a fault path only.

[@fireflight25]

When connected to the house with a generator that has been modified to the floating neutral I've seen the generator needs to be connected to a ground via the grounding lug on the generator. Can you explain that case? Does the generator need to be ground ed to a grounding rod via the grounding post on the generator? I've also read it need to be attached to a grounding rod that is 8 feet in the ground. Why?

[@JERRY_ONG]

I don't understand, why a portable generator is considered bonded? There is no connection to the ground, I mean.