Patch 11.0.5 Class Tuning Winners and Losers

[@dratnos]

may have spread a little fake news about dk deathbringer changes btw hehe, misunderstood the changes there

[@grecufilip]

Positive misunderstanding or negative misunderstanding?

[@PisToNsSH]

If you're a dk it's a positive misunderstanding. They partially baked in the removed talent that increased Reaper's Mark reapplication chance to Exterminate itself.

[@nickservidio3399]

Yea I’m not sure why the article is saying frost dk is getting a buff without ANY explanation

[@grecufilip]

@@dratnos yeah ive seen the nerfs time to quit wow

[@darrenzzz426]

@@grecufilip The nerfs come out to 2.5% frost is still comfortably at the top, stop being a doomer. And the misinformation in the video by @dratnos is regarding the "Exterminate has a chance to re-apply reaper's mark" thing; which is just getting baked into the baseline capability of Reaper's Mark, not being removed.

[@HumbleJon]

I can’t believe dratnos cheated in the poddyc trivia

[@Shmellit7]

we should beat him with hammers

[@Aggrofool]

his cheat trinket procced

[@kristonanderson7399]

He did what???!!!!

[@sneakyturtle7803]

bringing up the rank 1 parse of a fury warrior on mythic ansurak fight which specifically fury's damage profile is really good against as a reason to nerf the spec more is wild.

[@markuslc1888]

especially ignoring the st issue.

[@fredrikhaugseth2933]

Especially if you look at ALL other fights. They're not that far ahead on Queen Mythic either compared to other classes

[@slendeaway7730]

Stay mad. Or maybe stay happy. Whichever one is worse for a fury warrior.

[@scanGfu]

Couldn't disagree more with your opinion about warriors, especially at every other raid boss at any other difficulty and in any m+ dungeon. Argumenting "in a vacuum", as you call it, also has nothing to do with reality - if overpowered classes are getting buffed while already weak classes are getting nerfed it's rather frustrating.

[@baris9444]

Sorry but i'm not gonna be as civil as you are , the nerf take from dratnos was actually stupidest take i ever heard for a while. 45 sec cd class killing low hp adds on 2 bosses thats why we should get nerfed lmao. Spec is completely trashed and unplayable outside of those 2 bosses atm.

[@mdokane]

@@baris9444 I think its extra disappointing to hear this from Dratnos, who I normally agree with, because I'm willing to bet the devs are on a similar, myopic train of thought.

[@owlfredo]

@@baris9444 plenty of warriors are fucking cranking in m+ idk what you guys are smoking

[@adrianadrian1466]

You do understand that the nerfs ans buffs in general are because of players like him the 0.1% that play the game 24/7 and dont have any other things to do like work, familly etc. The blame for the state of M+ is on this elitists.

[@ConiugatioPeriphrast]

@@adrianadrian1466delusional.

[@Kadaren]

them buffing frost dk and arcane is ridiculous

[@Armand886]

I think for arcane it's more like they changed how the class worked and didn't bother to tune it

[@spacewalker806]

frost dk single target damage is ass.

[@Ghost-cd2tz]

comparing dk to other melee classes they sure as hell didnt need a buff

[@eliassantos6993]

​​@@Ghost-cd2tz yeah buffing them is stupid, but i wouldnt nerf them. Then again its not like other melees suck (except warrior, they hate u guys it seems). Enhancer, Assa rogue and Retri pala are busted af

[@MrVellinson]

​@@eliassantos6993 Ret paladin is getting a 6% net nerf with the changes...

[@TerentiusD]

Warriors are good at very specifically Ansurek. That's insane to say they should be nerfed again.

[@dratnos]

fury are in the top 3specs of 3 mythic bosses this tier by mythic statistics, and if you expand that to include arms there's another one - now does that mean they should be across the board nerfed? no, but there should probably be more power shifted in their kit towards the single target and away from burst AoE

[@burkles4456]

@@dratnosthat’s the fair and correct opinion but could you at least pretend to be angry about it.

[@Kyzarusty]

@dratnos Fury only shines on burst aoe situation but their sustained aoe falls off pretty quickly. Meanwhile Arms warrior is already not good in m+(their aoe is okay, single target is terrible) and yet getting nerfed 3-4 times in a row in result of nerfing fury. They need to really look into it in details before nerfing a class/spec just using warcraft log numbers. Meanwhile frost dk is getting buffs. Smh

[@baris9444]

@@dratnos Where is that power shift mr dratnos can you explain ? Cuz all we getting is nerfs without any sustain compensation. 45 sec raid design with low hp adds perfectly lines with fury burst while spec outside of those fights you are mentioning is completely unplayable. On 13 assa rogue is gapping me 450k currently , frost dks are doing around 400k more overall then me. Nvm what am i even explaining , fury bladestorm goes brr on 1 shot adds lets nerf fury more until every warrior player quits.

[@geoffreybentley5619]

@@dratnos The nerfs are bad because they affect m+ more than raid. The soft target cap won't change that for the few bosses they are good at. Every other spec gets buffs to help them in the other areas where they lag behind. Warriors need a rework which most likely won't be done till next expansion.

[@Stouf711]

I wouldn't expect someone who cheats in jeopardy to know why specs like fury warrior are being gutted for no real reason

[@Eldorante]

my theory is they have a new intern who just does some random tuning and let them release it

[@colasmulot]

I told the exact same thing to my friend as a joke when I saw those …

[@DasAngryGerman]

Icy veins just released damage breakdowns for mythic and fury warriors are the fourth worst overall dps, and do less single target than aug evokers. Pointing to one fight and saying they need to be nerfed sounds a bit disingenuous in this context. Let’s also not forget that fury does burst aoe and nothing else. Our utility kit is non-existent and if a class like mage or dk ends up doing similar dps it means that fury is worthless. Damage is the only thing we bring.

[@Dilllll26]

bruuuh? battleshout is bigger than anything DK gives, dont even put mage and dk in the same sentence, dk is the only class WITHOUT a raid buff, it literally brings nothing but dmg and survival

[@tremendoshd2356]

@@Dilllll26DK brings grips in case you forgot. Warrior doesn t even bring damage OR survivability.

[@Dilllll26]

@@tremendoshd2356 grip is nothing, i can assure you from the amount of hours i sat in LFG as a dk since m+ released, noone cares about grip. I still sit for hours for UH or Blood since i dont really play frost, we bring nothing useful to the group, our utility is the same as DF DK is only there because of its high dmg, check dps warriors vs dk over the years, warr has always done very high keys even when non meta because battleshout and reflect dps dk is literally THE WORST since m+ released, never once even been A tier

[@Armageddoniton]

@@tremendoshd2356 Your playing war wrong if you don't bring damage, I personally thought they were in a good place, nothing wrong with a different class topping meters for a change.

[@baris9444]

@@Dilllll26 Grip > every other raid buff lmao

[@DhatBlitz]

Talks about Fury, pulls up the one good fight we have (Ansurek), a fight that is literally perfect for furys damage profile, and uses that to justify more nerfs without ST buffs or sustained AoE compensation. To be clear I hate Fury's stupid burst niche it gets me killed if I use my cd's one global too fast all the time. But once that burst is gone that's it we suck and it shows in every encounter outside of ansurek. If we are so good at AoE and its not just burst then look at logs for Silken Court. Ovinax is similar to Queen its just burst parasite pad. Fury warrior sucks right now and its Niche is making it look decent.

[@KingQuate]

this 100%

[@younghunseo5224]

I also disagree with Dratnos's opinion on Fury. Due to webs and CDs for phases, Fury's ONLY good fight is at Ansurek. They still do one of the lowest ST dps, and for some reason, Arms has been catching nerfs strays which is also unfair.

[@nonye0]

hey first day at this? since when do they really compensate lmao

[@ZephosBalnazzar]

Fury's damage profile is anti-fun for everyone. No one gets to touch anything and they rip threat and die. They probably want the spec to be bad intentionally to rework it later.

[@burkles4456]

Tbf he did say to compensate ST

[@bigfatmoo]

Thats one take to have on fury Warrior, not a good one but atleast its a take. WCL 95%percentile Sort by Boss Dmg and lets talk again.

[@LilSnikkel]

I can't wait 'til the Shadow Priest dev is returning from his 3 month vacation

[@cdude247]

3months? bro dudes been AWOL for like 2-3 years...

[@OakenTome]

@@cdude247Shadow was meta in 10.1

[@nmc400]

He was swiftly let go, cant have shadow priest being meta again.

[@cdude247]

​@@OakenTome is that supposed to be some sort of gotcha? being meta has nothing to do with a dev being non existent you realise? they've half baked shadows rework like 3 times now since bfa including the 10.1 changes where they gave shadow 1 week of iteration and then gave up. having a high power level after some changes =/= good healthy rework bro. giga moronic take

[@TheKozdgaf]

@@cdude247 ohhh shut the fk up you know god damn well you are wanting it to be top dog sit the fk down

[@Tuckz0rz]

Making Destro AoE so abysmally bad with a completely pointless "fix" for a problem they already addressed in beta, without any form of compensation is so unhinged yet not mentioned

[@rfsr1981]

I don’t think we have a lock dev anymore

[@immersionHEHE]

I truly feel warlock is such a neglected class. Affli is pretty much exactly the same as in shadowlands and demo is so clunky and punishing that it's the overall worst spec in raid in the entire game. Our utility in m+ is a joke and has been since Legion. In raid we're just gate and soulstone bots. We're not even tanky anymore?! Wtf is going on 😂

[@thatepicwizardguy]

it was awesome going into the xpac until just beforehand where they kneecapped it across the board, and then CONTINUED to fuck it. what a joke man. I've unsubbed. no fuckin point in playing if they're just going to make everything a strugglebus for no reason. the dungeon pool largely sucks ass, I'm bored of the raid, and the rest of the game got stale insanely quickly its crazy.

[@clockwork9011]

Yeah we got fucked! Warlock is so mid and we don’t even get any buffs!

[@nexigram]

@@clockwork9011 mid is what we would be if we got a 20% aura buff. We’re basement dwellers, friend.

[@PaulSollmann-c7d]

very nice that they nerf fury the whole time cause they literally designed every fight in the raid for their cooldowns and as soon as you hop into m+ you either overaggro cause of your burst and just die or you deal 0 dmg after 15sec into a pull in high keys. Ty Blizz

[@nosferatuzod8881]

yikes warrior comment. check boss damage or other boss fights before telling warrior deserved 4th (5th i lost count) nerf

[@allakatter931]

Using a mythic ansurek kill as a metric for fury warrior nerfs is wild. The damage profile for that fight is perfect for fury, but if you look at M+ and single target in raid fury is down in the dumpster. Revert the aoe nerfs from this patch and massively buff single target, and we might be looking at something workable. For now though, the devs are clueless about fury.

[@itslit1998]

Fury is almost useless if there arent any very low hp adds for them to burst and thise low hp are not very important to beginn with this change plus the last nerf just shouldnt have happen. The only thing in the entire game were firy outclasses others is bursting queen roots and p3 adds. Fury doesnt even do food dmg in m+ anymore wich was the only thing warrior haf

[@tegridyfarmer2581]

What a great patch we're getting. The classes that dominate M+ and the important raid bosses are getting buffs in ST and AoE, while the classes that are already low in terms of DPS balance are getting nerfed or not even mentioned.

[@Moonwired]

Mage getting a 11.7% buff? They’re literally on drugs..

[@Blackbirdone11]

For Bad players it was hard to be place 1 so they buff it

[@hunterfrog8678]

Mages gotta stay the main character

[@TheGImp1214]

Well you see arcane was only the best in execute they had to also make them the best out of execute

[@Xeanowos]

Me coping its a typo and its actually a minus and not a plus...

[@itsdapolicegaming3038]

devs literally cradle the balls of DK's and Mage's through every expansion, if they aren't topping the charts, expect a nerf to all classes above and a buff to get them some separation.

[@Grotevlieger95]

Please don't talk about warrior when you dont know how bad they are. They got 2 good fights going for them, and all other content they are equal to a trashcan compared to near all other melee's.

[@Alcsaar0]

Having 2 good fights is better than having none.

[@phillipmeyer110]

at this point its confirmed, Blizzard hates warriors

[@SheinelI]

I think they hate priest more. The only change wwe got is out stamina buff going for 4% mana to 1% mana cost. I'll rather have a nerf and some change than being forgotten in a misarable state gameplay wise

[@xyoshiii]

actualy garbage take on fury warrior

[@zachhanley1231]

Bad take on warriors imo. Saying dk needs trade off buff/nerfs for ST/AOE while being better for all content except 3 fights feels super anecdotal. If you look at end of dungeon damage or total raid dam/dam to bosses fury is becoming below average. But getting high numbers on 3 fights makes it okay to be bad elsewhere.

[@1987TheFreeman]

Kinda bs to 5 target cap warrior capstones but not other classes. Should really be either all dps are capped or no dps are capped.

[@xlightninghawk6360]

Shamans have had capped aoe to 6 since start, welcome to my world

[@Kohmuh]

As a fury warrior main, that's a wild take to say we should keep catching these L's lol. We're good at 2 fights in the raid and that's about it. Outside of that, we're middle of the pack at best. It's wild that blizzard is ignoring how lack luster our ST is.

[@Ghost-cd2tz]

Not gonna lie, a guy like dratnos thats usually spot on with hes takes, is soo wrong when it comes to warrios nerf, the first nerf they got wasnt bad, since then the nerfs have made no sense they are at the lower end in m+ the tier set is shit and they have no ST target dmg whatsoever, looking at wowlogs it clearly shows how they are outperfomed by almost any other class, while other classes who are ahead keep getting buffs??? this makes no sense

[@SuPaHsNiPeZ]

Dratnos - fury warriors are too bursty, our aoe is DOG ALREADY - ITS A BURST PROBLEM!!!!

[@Thetoastmuncher]

Fury and arms absoluetely needs buffs. I was doing the same dmg on a 600ilvl Frost dk as my fury warrior at 620 in m+few weeks ago before all the nerfs. Also feels terrible going into a ST fight like sikran and getting a 95 log or something and being near bottom of the meters getting beat by people who are parsing around 70. Also why is it everytime they nerf fury they also nerf arms. Could switch to arms for ST fights but now its bad too.

[@TheGImp1214]

I dont play fury but i feel for them because of the target cap nerfs. Fury is only so good right now because they are distinctly good at brood twister and ansurek. If that wasnt the final boss we’d look at them as way worse in their current state. But now all these permanent nerfs are happening because of a fight they are uniquely good at. And if next tier rolls around and they dont revert all these changes they’re going to really stink.

[@UnitedSpartanstudios]

The fact that priest didn't even get a section that said no changes to damage just speaks volumes to how priests have been being treated by Blizzard

[@zirngibel3596]

sad priest noises from the corner where brann stands with his delves map

[@davidhulsey6046]

Didn’t priest spend and entire expansion in the meta?

[@zirngibel3596]

@@davidhulsey6046 i just started priest in TWW so i didnt experience that

[@SheinelI]

@@davidhulsey6046It's a cycle. Spriest get forgotten all alpha cauz blizz don't give a damn bout it, it suck, they giga buff it's base damage without touching gameplay, it's OP, they giga nerf it for next xpac, repeat

[@Dodo1two]

You-re evaluate things from a perspective of mythic raider im a fury main and im not a bad fury player i have 99-100 logs on most of the fights on both heroic and 4 mythic bosses (i had 95+ logs even in progress first kill) we are almost bottom on boss dmg on raid and for m+ things gets interesting for +12 and above everbody gaps me atleast 300-500k dmg on overall and there is not engh sustain dmg we start the pull for example 10-12 target pull and fdks opener was 15mil and mine were 14mil (even i cant compete them in opener) and my dmg falls to 6mil at the end and they dmg falls to 9 mil and stays at 9 mil till the pull ends lets buff meta specs and kill rest of the specs that are not meta but killing adds on raid too quick clearly good balancing way...

[@Kevmoeman]

2 best specs in the game getting huge buffs, warrior gets nerfed for the 4th time in a row, clearly dk and mage are immune to being bad this expansion

[@kyno2995]

Mage is immune to being bad every patch

[@markuslc1888]

​@@kyno2995that's bullshit

[@stuff4812]

@@markuslc1888 mage is definitely one of the classes that seemingly isnt allowed to be anything but really good at all times

[@amethonys2798]

​@markuslc1888 ??? Fire or Frost has consistently been above middle of the pack since the beginning of time. Even when Fire was "bad" in BFA it was still brought for prog because it's execute damage was obscene on thw fights that actually mattered like Ghuun or Jaina.

[@markuslc1888]

@@stuff4812 SL s1, DF pre rework all 3 mage specs were dogshit just to mention one example. SL s1 at the end mage had to get buffed 7 times in a row, to become viable and good, just to know how bad it was, at the beginning of TWW arcane was very strong, fire and frost were dogshit. now arcane is and will be op af, fire will get back into mid of the pack, cuz it's only strong with PI (same old issue) and frost is in a weird spot, kinda bad in raid but good in m+ hf balancing that 😅

[@DaKaveCollects]

Literally changing ELE sham best stat back to Mastery after we’ve been stacking Haste/Crit is insane. RIP all the farming and gear, gems and enchants ☠️

[@Fels678]

It's a minor inconvenience at best

[@ReXaRred1]

​@@Fels678 Yeah i just have yo recraft all my items now and farm the other items for which i have no crests to upgrade to my current ilvl, minor btw

[@Darthmagus]

@@ReXaRred1 I feel you but you dont need crests friend, just the valorstones.

[@xlightninghawk6360]

Mate, you knew these changes for almost 2 months, knowing they are pushing towards mastery again. Why didnt you save all your mastery gear pieces? I've been hoarding them ever since they announced it. If your crafted gear has haste crit, just leave them like that and rather get high mastery on your rings and neck

[@Wolfiztv]

It's a good thing, since enhance shaman also uses haste / mast as a primary stat so it gives you a options and not having to have 3 different gear builds for one char.

[@thekipz]

This honestly seems like their goal is to create a clear defined m+ meta. Bunch of low performing classes get nerfed, bunch of already high get buffed. Pretty weird situation

[@liamdavies2823]

imo it's felt like this has certainly been their attitude since aug was released, but it's not even about aug now. somehow

[@cheeseorwhatever]

i'd be shocked if there wasn't a tuning pass once the patch settles, some of these numbers are inexplicable lol

[@marcsino5489]

Maybe They are already balancing in advance for The next Tier set bonusses

[@Navi_xoo]

They should have buffed aug to be honest. Just make it as shit of a patch as possible.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

@@cheeseorwhatever this was already their chance for a huge tuning pass... we got fucked. again. I'm out.

[@BrockDaSock]

I understand why you think Fury Warrior is too strong, but its all burst damage that falls off if packs live for longer than 8 seconds. Ansurek is the prime example of lots of low health mobs that pad the meters. It does not make sense to nerf Fury Warrior this much when the single target is absolute beans. We have a "niche" but if you take that away, we're just another BM hunter mistake where they get rid of the only thing they're good at with minor buffs in the other categories.

[@jonkristiankveli6870]

As a warrior i can agree on the - % but tgt cap us while frost dk is a thing is insane

[@morgenmuffel5747]

Hero talents should never have been introduced - Blizz can’t even come remotely close to balancing the specs but thought that more than doubling the number to balance was prudent

[@GBobtehPwnzor]

It's not the AOE nerfs Drat, its the fact they flat out lied. "Developer’s note: Currently Reckless Abandon is outperforming Anger Management in all situations, so we’re bringing them closer in power by bringing up Raging Blow and Bloodthirst’s base damage, which will also improve Fury’s baseline single-target damage." Where is the single target buff? They continue to scale back our aoe and give us nothing to remain competitive. We are officially the worst plate dps class. 0 group utility. Mid burst. No single target. And our only mob CC are stuns that get DR'd instantly in groups w/ better aoe CC, and 1 fear.

[@alexna9035]

Kinda unfort not to see the AOE distinction between burst AOE that is putting Fury ahead on raid fights (Brood & Queen) and consistent AOE which has them being below other specs in M+. My only hope is by adding a target cap they don't keep making a mistake on tuning like this in the future.

[@KoMag3Ko]

This entire expansion is beta testing...new changes every damn week. How's arcane and frost dk getting buffed?!

[@tegridyfarmer2581]

Don't forget enhance according to their discord it's about a 19% buff.

[@WuSage3]

the WW notes didn't mention it but i'd say the patch turns conduit of the celestials from "ok with treacherous transmitter" to "always worse than shado-pan" (if we ignore the silly conduit uncapped aoe bug)

[@joshuamarc8773]

I mean tbh, Shado Pan was already waaay better than Conduit in almost all situations anyway.. it's just sad how they went about that ability and if you ask me, they should leave the conduit buff in the game, even with that bug I havent seen a monk compete with DK in overall.

[@WuSage3]

@@joshuamarc8773 Transmitter made conduit on-par with shado-pan, within margin of error in sims. Certain fights and bug abuse made conduit the go-to for at least 3 mythic fights as well, including silken. Not so much with the patch's buffs though. Also worth noting the bug is making monks get blacklisted on ovinax logs, i've seen plenty competing with fdk with the bug it's kinda nuts lol

[@joshuamarc8773]

@@WuSage3 Completely cap what you are saying, how come people were literally almsot ONLY playing Shado Pan in most of the content then?

[@WuSage3]

@@joshuamarc8773 not cap. Shadopan is infinitely easier to play is the main reason, you can ask the Silken mythic shadopan enjoyers yourself, they'll tell you the same thing, they took SP for ease mainly. Lots of conduits there on silken. no transmitter is one of the other reasons. All the wowhead/IV guides not going into this nuance is another reason.

[@joshuamarc8773]

@@WuSage3 dude, I am talking about all Types of content, the best of the best, and they are playing shado pan 😂 literally looked it up 5 mins ago YET AGAIN. Just because there is one or two Fights IN THE RAID where conduit is good.. doesnt mean the ability is on par with shado pan.. and I would love to know why you think conduit is harder to play 😂

[@Crayzyy]

nerfing BDK san layn makes absolutely no sense what so ever, nobody barely plays it

[@Eulrich]

i think Blood DK honestly needs a complete overhaul again. Right now it feels i can just turn of the monitor as long as i keep track o fDRW cds and Boneshield. It´s really boring to play when all you do ino matter the circumstancese is just max out on boneshield depleting and DRW uptime. ALso talents feel incredible stall yet again. Same shit like in DF, just more boring. And taking Vampiric Blood of Sen layn may be better for the current gameplay, but is a horrible fantasy. at that point what do you need a hero talent for?

[@MikeyJ232]

San’Layn may be very good for Unholy later on but at the moment it’s not worth playing for Blood.

[@driiifter]

Deathstrike does zero damage, it's criminal to me. They need to ditch the healing based on damage you take and just make it heal for the damage Deathstrike does. This mechanic and mana need to go.

[@Dilllll26]

@@Eulrich lol you obviously aint doing difficult content if you think you can just keep boneshield up and turn monitor off, literally all tanks are a joke in such content. Blood is excellent atm and the perfect level of skill expression, it just needs some utility like targetted AMS for a team member and a raidbuff

[@Eulrich]

@@Dilllll26 obviously it´s a tad exaggerated. THere´s a lot of skill involved at the start of pulls, especially if you can´t get in a pull with remaining boneshield stacks and don´t have DRW available and you have to somehow make it work. But once your stable it´s basically like playing beardruid. you just mindlessly maxout on Boneshield throughput while slapping in a cd or deathstrike every now and then. I guess not every tank has to be brewmaster, but i really would like a tad of variance in BloodDK playstyles.

[@Millennium2696]

Dratnos is completely clueless about fury warrior, no other words for it

[@gala5000]

Afaik reapers still resets they just baked the one talent into exterminate so it’s just a 30% chance baselines with 2 exterminates, I think frost variance is going up a bit and not to mention it seems like frosts first exterminate of the fight might still not have any chance to apply reapers which is surely a bug.

[@leandrobaez9124]

As a mage myself I am okay with this 😂

[@FrancisGX]

These changes prove whichever monkey worked on balance this patch was accidentally holding the list upside down.

[@RealnoMis]

As a fury warrior i might be able to give some insight as to why we are mad: Partly its as you said Frost DK and Arcane Mage getting buffs is insane. But also, we arent even that strong. Before you start showing Ansurek logs again ill just say yes our burst aoe is good, and our dmg profile is good for a fight like Ansurek where there is priority dmg while also dealing burst aoe dmg. What im saying though is that we are abysmal at single target and below average for mythic plus and sustained aoe. If the last boss fight would have been pure Single Target or 4 target cleave we would have been absolute garbage. And thats the problem; Other classes are allowed to be good at certain things. Frost DK is allowed to be good at m+, Assassination is allowed to be good at m+ and single target, Destro is allowed to be good at spread 2 target cleave, and mage is allowed to be good at everything. Why are we not allowed to be good at what we are good at? We are currently getting shafted at everything else in the game because we happen to be good at the last boss of the raid, and that aint right.

[@ZephosBalnazzar]

They're not removing the rng of Exterminate chain proccing RM. It's just a 30% baseline chance now instead of 20% + 10 from Painful Death (which was removed)

[@guccigang9881]

Blizzard is smoking meth. wtf are these changes

[@DaidxD420]

having to recraft all my gear as an ele considering how expensive stuff is this expansion doesn't feel great don't love this change mid season

[@somsimsem]

First world problems.

[@markuslc1888]

i mean just go for high mastery rings and neck change all enchants to mastery and use mastery flask and you should be fine, it's not like you don't need the other stats anymore.

[@xlightninghawk6360]

Thats your own fault, you knew these changes were comming for almost 2 months now. Besides, if your weapon have haste crit, leave it like that, they are still good stats, get mastery elsewhere. Ive been hoarding every mastery gear i could get just in case

[@amethonys2798]

​@@xlightninghawk6360 ?? The Shaman Discord literally had a pinned post for weeks that they don't know what will be prio since they have been working out sims.

[@markuslc1888]

@@amethonys2798 you didn't need sims to know, that mastery won't stay at 4th place, the question was haste>mastery or mastery>haste.

[@Fredrick215]

Yes buff the most op classes makes sense to me fuck the under performing classes

[@timpa2397]

how is it valid to nerf Fury when they build a raid for fury and then cry that its good? some classes sit here with uncapped AOE doing billions of damage on gigapulls and getting buffed(!?!?) while the already AOE capped fury will be even harder AOE capped????

[@Bringspeacethelock]

These warlock and pally nerfs are crazy. They need to rework warlock all together…

[@peijrum]

No its not okay to nerf warr anymore, 3 nerfs in a row already resulted in absolute fuck all inivtes for m+.

[@tombeef4534]

Thank you. What prot pally really needed was more dps because their survivability is just fine.

[@lukaskulla434]

Wtf are u talking about , honestly. Literally every warry main is rerolling because it's been dead for like 2 patches in a row and it is still getting punched more. PvP is a complete meme at this point, frost mage , feral and shadow are absolutely dominating and the rating systems is completely bugged. Meanwhile im playing arcane and evoker in m+ and wondering how it is even possible that I'm getting buffed/not touched 😂 balancing is a complete joke and if you don't play multiple speccs or one of the meta speccs your probably just ending your subscription or malding in pain xD

[@zekebeilharz5759]

bro this is totally the same .5 patch as last expac just without the aug. BUT it'll have the same impact on the meta haha

[@vezz9913]

the balance tuning this patch is disgusting lol what a straight up disgrace of a patch

[@duckys_on_quack]

This might be the worst balance changes we have seen 10% buffs to arcane mage and frost dk is crazy when then they already are in a top spot

[@atalbot858]

Devs completely reworking Dark Ranger from the ground up only for Pack Leader to sim better and be used in all formats is hilariously bad.

[@khaldraven1608]

Fury warrior deserves the nerfs, well said by someone who doesn't know what a key is, every fury warrior is popping full CDs on small adds that live in 2,5 sec making them look big in Raid meanwhile they're behind everyone on ST and consistant AoE also, imagine playing the game for a living and still being so clueless about it holy fuck

[@MissildineWoW]

Hahahahag

[@deseanroot75]

Arcane and frost getting buffed while fire is getting nerfed is insane. I wish Blizzard devs actually played the game

[@hellfishukairsoft]

Tired of specs and in this case fury warriors getting balanced based on a crap raid. This change might be good for the raid but it fucks the class up when it comes to M+ they need to start balancing based on the content rather than just a stupid raid which seems to be designed around spawning ads every time warrior CD's are up.

[@Carsone22]

Warlocks boned again.

[@rfsr1981]

@@Carsone22 we don’t have a dev sadly

[@DirtyAtreyu]

@@rfsr1981 Warlocks share the mage dev, and he's busy buffing the class with 2 top 5 dps specs over the one with all 3 specs in the bottom 5

[@rfsr1981]

@@DirtyAtreyu yeah mid beta they let the lock dev go and passed it on to the mage dev who doesn’t give a shit

[@joshuamarc8773]

No idea why WW didnt get better buffs, but w/e.

[@pancake7183]

San'layn getting nerfed is fucking outrageous.

[@rfsr1981]

This tuning is laughable at best. Blizz is so lost when it comes to tuning. This balance season 1 is such a joke.

[@Boulderfxx]

Literally he says this is less tuning and more talent rework and to expect tuning to address balance in the future and you still bitch about tuning. Shit is to funny.

[@Caffrof091]

"fury aoe nerf is okay" a class having 4 target max aoe from ALL our abilities when every class is uncapped basically

[@xlightninghawk6360]

Nope, shaman have a 6 target aoe cap, so not every class got uncapped aoe

[@amethonys2798]

​@@xlightninghawk6360 except Enh does insane prio damage so it at least "makes sense". Fury competes with tanks more than other dps on bosses in m+.

[@SheinelI]

We have to dot every target by hand as priest, before +11 the pack is dead before we dotted everything if we don't have a cd

[@Caffrof091]

@@xlightninghawk6360 You guys are getting buffed constantly and got a crazy rework... 👻 meanwhile warrior had been untouched for centuries.

[@Nokin92]

fury warrior AoE is getting another nerf, but yet frost dk AoE is getting a buff????

[@oldwarriorr.]

shame for blizzard, keep nerfing warrior and keep buffing fdk and arcane

[@arielvalcar947]

lol warrior aoe its like that cause of raid timings but if u got to M+ not that good as raids

[@EternalAngel333]

buff fury warriors wth the fact we EAT constant nerfs due to how raid was designed is stupid every phase spawning adds etc are up just as we get cds and we get nerfed because of that ontop of our AoE is all just burst for 3-5 seconds then we go wet noodle for 45s-1m.. and we dont even get compensation for single target when our ST is not even good vs fdk or other melee... nerf the hell out of dk, enchancement and sham

[@Crotes1990]

Blizz thinks tomorrow will be April 1st

[@zenith_journey]

Frost DK buffs. Like I’m sorry this just proves the balance team is literally clueless. The best specs are just all getting buffed. Dk needs massive nerfs in survivability and damage, it’s trolling to play any other class atm. And why can they AMS half the mechanics in m+? I haven’t seen a single spec this OP since idk season 2 Aug evoker?

[@Dilllll26]

thats a massive exaggeration, SPriest in s4 alone was far better than frost atm, ass rogue can out dps dk, same with enhance and other specs can also get similar dmg unless DK highrolls reaper mark resets. DK brings nothing to the group, AMS has been the same since legion and did you ever see DK meta? Of course it is op and needs nerfs but other classes are the exact same level

[@stuff4812]

@@Dilllll26 dk brings a lot to a group. AMZ, grips can be very useful for grouping casters, an instant brez and is super tanky letting some pressure off healers

[@Dilllll26]

@@stuff4812 so why was dk never meta before with all that exact same stuff? There has never been any key where AMZ was needed to survive and you can just kick a caster or LoS it to group. It’s insulting as someone who has suffered and mained dk for years, sitting in queue for 8hrs before with 0 invite, that someone would say our utility is overpowered🤣 Mage gets into groups with half the dmg of dk because it actually has good utility, same with aug

[@amethonys2798]

​@@Dilllll26 ??? Unholy has been meta in M+ more often than it isn't and it usually only isn't because Blizzard overnerfs it after a season where it does nuclear uncapped AoE damage. A DPS shouldn't be running around with well over 7 million health right now that can also do an obscene amount of self healing if they DO somehow take damage through their defensives.

[@Dilllll26]

@@amethonys2798 ahahahah UH meta?? im talking proper keys not MDI. so now you are complaining about deathstrike aswell? which has been the same since legion. We had near the EXACT same survival in DF, yet DK was absent all m+ im telling you even when are dmg was quite good, we were never meta because our toolkit sucks. it is only now that the dmg is top 3 that dk has finally been meta as a dps the only thing that changed since DF was we got 8% reduced magic dmg and 35% reduced duration. everything else was the same my friend...

[@dhoomatef2555]

how is it fair to nerf warrior because what? riad fights? literally one of the worst classes in m+, gives nothing for the party except for shout. frost dk is top on most bosses, frost dk are at the top on ansurek boss fight. ppl literally just see how fury shine in 3 raid boss fights and complain

[@vladtepes490]

my issue is arms warrior catching strays from fury nerfs and then mages and frost dk get bufffs lol

[@tordrik6555]

fury has the worst pure single target in the game by far and taking 15th aoe nerf in a row i guess time to roll frost dk

[@vengeanceiww2311]

I don't wanna be that warlock guy but we are seeing arcane as oh no spellslinger is not as good as sunfury (which is btw just op) whilst we have warlock's "the best" soul harvester aff and demo and still being bottom half of the list and we still have hellcaller affliction which st dmg is closer to prot pala than to enha. Demo diabolist is the best option we have and it's still in the bottom with hunter's and rouge's worst option. Hilarious

[@joelsalyer5544]

Buffing arcane? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

[@Joe-zd9xw]

For real man is this patch even real?😂

[@Eulrich]

also buffing frost dk, really hard to grasp which data they are looking add before they roll the dice. (shifting some frost dmg to st and away from cleave, alright, but straight buffing when they are very meta in M+ already is just the same failure they keep repeating). While doing nthing for the poor monks out there.

[@treyroy755]

They're reworking arcane. They will be tuning them after.

[@treyroy755]

@@Eulrich This isn't a tuning patch. It's a rework patch. They're going to tune classes a week after/hotfix during the week.

[@Korri1992]

@@treyroy755 and are you telling us they are SO stupid that they do the "reworks" without knowing the impact ? cmon dude , dont defend these idiots who do balance stuff , they dont give a single fuck.... you know the numbers before people hit the dummy and they still keep doing it.

[@NFSCsapat]

Oh lord please buff fury warrior single target im not even joking

[@itsgamz]

Balance Druids are NOT happy about their changes. Fake rework. Nerfed damage.

[@FatedEmperor]

I am a resto druid main, but I am right there with you. I think this expansion has really highlighted how "lost" the druid class has become in the current game design. I honestly think that the entire druid class needs a refresh.

[@Dragonaut527]

The devs have favs and fury aint one of them. If fury does well in a fight that fits fury's damage profile and thats a reason to nerf, why aren't specs that do good single target on single target bosses getting nerfs to their single target as well? Biased af and trash balancing

[@Navi_xoo]

Maybe the worst balancing patch in recent history. Buffing 5 meta specs kekekekekekekekeeke blizzard braindead.

[@Cilroc]

Arcane changes is just a big change to the talent tree. The buff is not intended and will probably see a big aura nerf next week. Thing is, when this raid was released Arcane was by far the best ST spec. Now alot of guilds pushing for Hall of fame got like 3-4 mages ready to raid because of it. They then went ahead and aura nerfed them over and over (3 weeks in a row or something) and now they are like 4th ST and like 11th cleave. So alooooot of people who prepared their characters for Hall of fame are right now on the bench because Enhance/FrostDK/Warrior was ahead of them on almost all bosses in the raid. I think because of how the landscape among dps looked when the raid was released (unbalanced af) they have to kind of make changes that fit that roster and not the current one. I dunno, just a rant.

[@hamakakun]

glad they buffed boomy. long awaited buff. thanks blizz

[@Illidonkers]

How much of a buff are the icon changes for dh

[@zuralani1]

Best i can offer you is a sideways Sigil of Flame

[@zenith_journey]

At this point why haven’t they just deleted dh, left in the dust completely since s3 rework

[@zuralani1]

@@zenith_journey the s3 "rework" that was a third of the size of the rogue rework in the same season made by the same developer, as said by that developer before we saw it to temper expectations lol. My guess there is some higher-up said "hey since we're almost at an expansion just give them part of a rework to hold them over, they can wait." then forgot about it and said "hey they just got a rework, forget about them for now"

[@Arvantua]

very nice buff to Survival indeed ;) i see what you did there

[@agnosscio6852]

The fact that elemental shaman's are getting a massive rework only halfway through the season is beyond frustrating. I've already got all of my BiS gear, and now that I have to work my way for the second half of the season to farm for it's replacements and reenchant them is a massive pain in the ass. I dont even see how it's buffed at this point: No CD Reduction Elementals uptime reduced by 50% Defensives are essentially rendered useless. Maelstrom generation is gutted in half All to revolve around overhyped ascension models. Calling Blizzard unhinged at this point is a gross understatement.

[@HeyNaviHey]

Unbelieavable... They changed nearly nothing on DH and STILL managed to fk it up :'D The Hunt and Sigil of Spite got new Icons, but it's the SAME ONE x'D

[@EternalJunim]

Another warrior nerf and they buffing mages and dks hahahahah This company is a JOKE!

[@LATHSPELL70]

Bro, Warriors do tank damage ST. Show your Queen kill boss damage.

[@MikeyJ232]

That’s definitely a lie. Go watch any skilled warrior like Critcake do 1.3m on a ST boss.

[@LATHSPELL70]

@@MikeyJ232 I love “feely-craft.” If he has the 100% parse on that fight he is behind other classes by over 300k ST. Look at logs for 30s. They didn’t deserve nerfs. If they are going to be ass at ST, they need to be good in other situations. This is in regard to Fury, which I believe he played on first kill. The 💯 parse for fury is 20% behind Enhance and 10-15% behind 8 other classes as of today w/ current maxed logs. The discrepancy is worse for 99-95% parses.

[@MikeyJ232]

@@LATHSPELL70 Oh no, I’m not the best in the world at everything in the game 😆 Why do warrior players cry so much? Just play the game and get better. There are too many specs in the game to have perfect balance in all content.

[@LATHSPELL70]

@@MikeyJ232 dude are you a mouth breather? I’m arguing the exact opposite of what you just said. If you’re going to be the worst at ST or near the bottom - it’s okay to be good or the best at AOE. That’s exactly why Dratnos laughs about FDK. What an idiot lol. The internet always impresses

[@joshuabergeron9731]

Never forget that Dratnos cheated in Poddy C trivia and still didn’t win based

[@btm9652]

As someone mythic raiding as mage, I hate blizzard. They saw something they didn't like with arcane and frost, removed it and replaced it with half baked stuff. Theorycrafters got to work and turned it into a damage buff because blizzard have no idea what they are doing and puts zero thought into changes Arcane now has a stupid long spreadsheet of conditions for Arcane Barrage as a result, and frost mage wants to spam frostbolt as much as possible (it's a damage loss to use any shorter CDs during Icy Veins -_-) And everyone else then sees the buffs and gets mad despite us trying to tell blizz. Obviously it needs nerfing but I hope they actually put thought into the next changes because it's just depressing watching the gameplay of the specs get worse and worse

[@TheTundra193]

Buffing Arcane mage and Frost DK and yet Warrior has been getting hit with nerfs every single week since launch. IDK wtf those people at Blizzard are smoking but they need to stop and get help.

[@TheScharkyscharky]

Buffing the top tier classes meanwhile warlock is getting an aoe nerf and still has 1 of 3 hero talents barely playable

[@davids3930]

the Outlaw changes are generally good - losing shadowstep on outlaw is a bit meh, and Im not convinced on the Tea change either but not having to press slice and dice ever again is a massive W

[@wm-wl8ws]

still waiting for DH changes, nothing in alpha, nothing in beta, nothing in the first patch.

[@onur6020]

Don't forget, they fixed Eye Beam bug, which supposedly should do reduced dmg beyond 5 target but was doing reduced dmg beyond 1 target ! WOOOOO

[@yeye1600]

Yeah true, that's already 1 more change per patch than we are usually used to lol.​@@onur6020

[@zuralani1]

@@onur6020 dont forget, that bug was there since dragonflight! So was the isolated prey bug with eye beam, idk if the chaotic disposition bug with eye beam was new to this expac or if it came with df s3 though. The collective anguish (eye beam talent) bug where we use vengeance's fel dev instead of one based off our own spell id has also been around since dragonflight (and is still active). Yeah... dh (especially eye beam) is a little buggy.

[@thatepicwizardguy]

nope. you have hunter in your name so you get screwed. this is the way. regular hunters got changed but theres bugs everywhere and the class still feels like it's a version from a decade ago so it sucks ass unless it's giga overtuned. lol it's just how it is. unsub and play other things like I'm doing

[@MrDoit187]

Ah yes, nerf fire and buff arcane and Frost. Blizzard is absolutely clueless

[@Dxlol21xD]

Fire nerfed!?!?

[@yarnf]

I have always wanted to play arcane mage but haven't wanted to learn the rotation. Finally now though, the spec is powerful enough that I won't even need to, I'm glad they finally made arcane mage playable. Also: free fury warriors. They are getting nerfed only because blizz decided to make a last boss literally designed for the spec to pad on.

[@zenith_journey]

They made arcane harder so I guess it nerfs the bad players

[@yarnf]

@@zenith_journey ah shit!