Pathfinder (2e): Basics of Crafting Part 1

[@HowItsPlayed]

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[@celestine5231]

My group just recently switched to PF2e and I just took Snarecrafter Dedication, but I'm considering going deeper into crafting because it looks so interesting. This series is helping a lot, so thanks!

[@GroundThing]

For the Downtime time, you mention 8 hours, per 1st edition, but I think it's important to consider 2e's time system, where things are either encounter, exploration, or downtime time, based on GM discretion. What this means is that, largely, the number of hours is kind of up to the GM, given that crafting is a downtime activity. Which is to say, 8 hours might be an Ok baseline, if you want to know how much an artisan might be able to do in their spare time, but it doesn't mean you can spend 16 hours crafting, in a day, to get double the progress, at least without GM permission, in the same way a, say, bard couldn't spend 16 hours on performance to earn double the income with the "Earn Income" activity. This is largely because downtime isn't really measured in hours, the way exploration might be, but in days, so days, rather than hours is the appropriate unit for the timescale that the activity is performed in. In general, it's useful to consider the domain of the action, in terms of how long something takes, rather than the actual time spent, so for things in encounter scenarios, rounds (aka 6 seconds) or actions (a subdivision of that, roughly, but not necessarily 2 seconds), or for exploration scenarios, 10 minutes, or sometimes units of hours, and for downtime, days or sometimes weeks. Subdividing further than that isn't really what the game expects.

[@TheOnlySheet]

Very professional and well made - *thumbs up*

[@HowItsPlayed]

Thanks!

[@aloseman]

Refreshing myself on this information for my player's first week of downtime!

[@Geffro]

I know some people don't like this crafting system, but it seems pretty ok to me assuming: 1. specific uncommon-rare items are sometimes difficult to find in your campaign. Just opening up the options of what you can "buy" alone makes it a nice option. and 2. The GM makes sure to give enough occasional downtime for players that want to do crafting. Creating things by hand like that in real life can take a while, especially intricate pieces of armor. Although that's ignoring having to find formulas, which makes it much less useful since you have to find the recipe for something before you can even consider crafting it. I also think it could be nice if the scaling from trained - legendary was a little higher, so that if a player invests in crafting they can get a bigger discount quicker. Also, something interesting that I think could be done (if you have players that are really into crafting) is occasionally rewarding players with raw materials that make up for part or all of the 50% upfront cost. It's almost like gifting them a special coupon that only they can redeem since their character is skilled enough to craft whatever the item they want is, and they get to decide what to use the materials on which could be fun too.

[@FormerRuling]

It is really GM dependent on whether crafting is good for stocking your own character - the GM has to give you access to the raw materials (or hand wave it away and just take the gold), give you access to formulas like working with you and making sure treasure tables are things you'll actually want to craft, and finally give you the actual downtime to do it.

[@SebastienPatriote]

Four days for a level 20 legendary crafter to build a ladder os an insult to intelligence.

[@flaminyawn]

@@SebastienPatriote If you're at level 20, what are you building a ladder for?

[@aliasmask]

I think the initial crafting period should be based on per day cost to a minimum of 1/2 day and max of 4 days. Then the remaining cost can be calculated in 1/2 day increments. So, low cost items can be completed in 1 day. 5 days to make 10 arrows is a bit out-of-touch.

[@ostimeg]

But can't you work in batches, so you make 40? 4 batches of "10 arrows"?

[@SunnyTheManokit]

Thanks a lot i was really confused as to how to get the right tools to craft, loved your vid!!

[@Markekarit]

Thanks My group just recently switched to PF2e and felt overwhelming by data dump. your video helps a lot. :D

[@HowItsPlayed]

Awesome! Glad I could help!

[@BlackApokalypsika]

One question i hope someone reads and answers: how is the DC for the required skill check determined? is there a table for it or does the GM decide?

[@Gurianthe]

so, if rafting costs the same as the listed price of the item, then isn't better to just buy the item and remove the chance of failing? so, the only things worth crafting are consumables and ammo? I don't know if I understand right

[@dorianleakey]

This is my concern listening to this, its insane, as in the real world the main cost of anything is the skill of the worker, if you plaster a wall, the plaster is cheap, the tools a bit pricey, but most of the cost is the skilled worker. EDIT Just checked Archives of Nethys, I've removed the irrelevant stuff- To Craft an item, you must meet the following requirements: You must supply raw materials worth at least half the item's Price. You always expend at least that amount of raw materials when you Craft successfully. If you're in a settlement, you can usually spend currency to get the amount of raw materials you need, except in the case of rarer precious materials.

[@lorenzovaletti4951]

Great great great job as usual!

[@HowItsPlayed]

Thanks!

[@Montoshan038]

Awesome video! Thank you.

[@HowItsPlayed]

You're very welcome!

[@jamesbond3485]

Can the new Alchemical Gauntlet use striking runes or handwraps of mighty blows ? And does it multiply the 1d4 damage of the bomb's damage type ?

[@astrid2432]

well made video. helped me a bit but I have to say, the core rulebook has some weird phrasing about the handbook, where some basic crafting recipe are inside. it doesn't stand directly what you get, as it leads you to the rules how formulars are, like that you need to buy them and so only one or two lines mention, that the handbook has all items for lvl 0 or 1 and the recipe in chapter 6 have all lvl 0 and 1 items you can craft, if not stated somehow else a other interesting thing is: is the handbook adaptiv? like can you add new formulars or do you need that expensiv collegebook aka empty formularbook for that?

[@enriquesanders]

Incredible video as always! Weak crafting system though. Thank you so much for your content, I'll be waiting for the 2nd part, specially for the runes!

[@dbadger1138]

You're welcome!

[@ProStashio]

4 days to make 10 arrow is still pretty ridiculous. I would say an hour

[@Taal111]

Sounds like any campaign without weeks of downtime basically makes crafting unusable.

[@Unikatze]

Any idea what the narrative intention is when you're just paying the remainder of the cost to finish a project after day 4? My impression is that perhaps in-world, the crafter needs 4 days to make a bare bones item. And any additional days is spent with extra details like engravings or decorated paraphernalia that would increase its price. Lowering the cost with the additional days is just a simplification so that we don't have to track different item prices for two longsword that are functionally exactly the same.

[@HowItsPlayed]

I think it's more about balance and an attempt at simplicity than anything else. But if you need a narrative explanation, maybe the crafter hired an extra hand or two to help out?

[@drunemeton]

It seems that you spend 4 days crafting and can finish up, thereby not saving any money, but you can create what you need outside of a settlement. However if you continue crafting you can eventually only pay half price for the item(s)!

[@uriahh6931]

I always, as a GM, have made each item crafted a more common sense timeframe… I.e. the 1st time a player makes something takes longer than the 10th time they make something and smaller, simpler crafts are fast… also, for ammo crafting potion crafting etc. I allow my players to spend a little time each day on ‘prep work’ (fletching arrow shafts, whittling wood, making unfinished potions etc.) and then they can take these unfinished items and finish a craft much faster… (I.e. common sense if you have an arrow shaft, cut feathers, and an arrow head already available it shouldn’t take very long for a skilled fletcher to make some arrows) Also, all the larger crafts follow the same logic for me of if you are a skilled craftsman and have done the craft before it’s a lot faster… also if you have access to decent tools/forge/work station etc. it will go a lot faster… I also typically allow for hiring assistants at forges etc. to make the process faster

[@redwolf8707]

I have a question. Downtime is a mode when the PC is in home or aren't adventuring. Time scale: Day, weeks, months, years... As you say, in pf1 it's 8 hours but here they measure it differently. You must spend 4 days at work.... My question. Do those four day have to be consecutive? Can you count as work day when you are on adventure and return to your base and spend the rest of the day in Downtime?

[@HowItsPlayed]

I don't think they need to be consecutive, but the GM may want to think about what's happened to the partially crafted item while the adventurer has been away.

[@redwolf8707]

@@HowItsPlayed if is in a safe place, i don't think that are a problem. I have run plagestone, and i think that be play this form, another GM tell me that is no posible to do adventure day and downtime day in the same day.

[@HowItsPlayed]

@@redwolf8707 Yes, that is correct -- Downtime Days and Adventuring Days should be separate. Not both during the same day.

[@redwolf8707]

@@HowItsPlayed thanks

[@dungeonmaster16]

Legit question if still read past vid comments. With the upcoming treasure vault and new crafting rules will you do a vid going into details and specifics for it?

[@simonburling3762]

Great video, as usual. What I find is wrong, is that there is no need for the Expert experience proficiency for creating.

[@HowItsPlayed]

True. Did I mess up and say differently? Let me know where and I'll mark it for a correction. Thanks!

[@simonburling3762]

@@HowItsPlayed No, you did not make an error, my comment is more aimed at Paizo.

[@Enaronia]

"Finally, crafting higher-level items requires greater proficiency in Crafting. Unless stated otherwise, creating items of 9th level and higher requires you to have the master proficiency rank in Crafting, and items of 16th level and higher require legendary Crafting." The Magical Crafting feat requires Expert in Crafting, so it's required for all magic items. It also increases your efficiency and probability of success, of course.

[@PunsRDum]

so if you decide not to spend additional days reducing the cost of the crafted item, you essentially pay full price for the item

[@Frostyviewer]

it does help if GM says the item is not available. I'd say if downtime is allowed, using skills to make money and buying common easily available items before heading to adventure is probably the best use of downtime "crafting".

[@zarthemad8386]

yup which makes this system pointless. ... Ill pay 6k gold in mats then craft for 4 days ... then pay 6k gold to the sphere of anailiation (for no reason)... and poof the item is magically done... where did the extra gold go? who knows ... or you could craft for another several years....

[@SliceOfDog]

I'm pretty new to this, so could someone explain to me the in-world process of spending money for crafting materials? I presume in a population centre it's supposed to represent buying the materials for the item, but what about when travelling? If a ranger wants to craft more arrows, and there's plenty of materials for them in the nearby forest etc, where does the gold come into it? I understand from a mechanical sense, keeping the game balanced and rules oriented, but what actually happens from the character's perspective? How does the gold get 'spent' when making arrows or a sword or whatever when out exploring?

[@HowItsPlayed]

I'd probably handwave the expense if all the player wanted to make were simple arrows, but I think the "official" answer would be the Earn Income downtime activity (kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJ6sdKWPj9KZj7M). The Ranger would use their downtime foraging in the woods, finding the right kind of wood, cutting it, preparing it, etc. The amount of "income" earned would be paid in crafting resources instead of gold coins.

[@SliceOfDog]

@@HowItsPlayed Fantastic, thank you! That sounds like a sensible approach, and thanks for the other video as well, very helpful! So if I were running a campaign with a lot of camping/wilderness scenarios (I'm not currently, but just blue sky thinking), do you think it would be viable to allow players to 'earn income' in materials even before they had something they wanted to craft? Just have a pot set aside with a gold value of generic common materials that they could later delve into for crafting?

[@HowItsPlayed]

@@SliceOfDog Yeah, I don't think there'd be anything wrong with that... just a little extra bookkeeping perhaps. And if they're foraging for materials in their spare time, you might want to adjust the time spend and amount earned (by default, "Earn Income" is a downtime activity that takes 8 hours).

[@hk4124]

I hate how crappy crafting is in any RPG because I love the idea of being able to make my own equipment and gear but pathfinder crafting is the exact same as shopping with extra steps. Oh, I have to pay the same amount of gold, take 4 days to make it and have a chance to screw up and just lose gold and another 4 days......or I can just go to the corner shop like every other adventurer. In my opinion the fact that it takes 4 days to make and you have a chance at failing is more than enough to justify only needing half the item's price in gold to make it. Also it's kinda funny to me that by RAW most shopkeepers are selling their items at cost lol.

[@CraigSteinhoff]

Great video! I think Holy Water is level 1 and requires Magical Crafting.

[@HowItsPlayed]

You are correct! Did I goof and say something different about Holy Water in this one? I actually recorded this a few weeks ago and can't recall mentioning Holy Water's level or traits.

[@CraigSteinhoff]

@@HowItsPlayed well I think you mentioned when you were talking about the basic crafting book. It is in chapter 6 but it is under magic items. So noth everything in chapter 6 is level 0 I guess.

[@HowItsPlayed]

@@CraigSteinhoff True. I think some other items, like Full Plate armor, are level 1 too. But the weird thing is, the table says the Basic Crafter's Book is only for 0-level items... but the description of the Basic Crafter's Book, and the sidebar about it in the Crafting Skill section, both say all common items, without specifying only those that are 0-level. And the errata doesn't clear this up either. So I went with the approach that the sidebar and description are correct because I've always heard "text trumps table." But I'll admit this is one of those areas where I'm not 100% sure what's right. :)

[@CraigSteinhoff]

@@HowItsPlayed yea I can see that...Holy Water also has the "divine" tag which means it requires Magical crafting I beleive. Page 571 has the full Holy Water read out. Not a big deal...the only reason I know is I was trying to figure it out and posted on the Paizo site :)

[@ingridplata2411]

Could you stop your additional days of crafting to go adventuring and then pick it back up later?

[@HowItsPlayed]

It's up to the GM. There's nothing in RAW that prevents that, but if you're working on something (like potions) the GM might determine that you can't just let chemistry sit for days until you come back to it.

[@us3s]

Does crafting in batches of 4 also mean that if you buy a potion for 6 gp you get 4 of them?

[@Frostyviewer]

it takes 4 days, and iirc RAW cost is also per item so a batch of 4 would still be 24gp, take 4 days to craft minimum, and use 12g materials with 12 left. Is that accurate or did I interpret parts wrong?

[@simonburling3762]

On the assumption of working at least an 8 hour day, agreed.

[@unicornchowder]

I am.... SO confused about where, exactly, "raw materials" come from. I am new to Pathfinder and table top RPGs in general so when I think of "raw materials" i think going out and collecting flowers, roots, powders, Ghast tears, etc and going to my alchemy stand; think The Witcher/Skyrim/Minecraft/etc. So where exactly do I get "raw materials"? Can I find them on an adventure? Can I buy them in town? Do I need *speific* materials or is everything created from the generic "raw" category. Do "raw materials" have a specific cost, like "this batch of raw materials costs 100gp" or do you just buy 10 of the 10gp raw materials. I am soooooooo confused and the player's handbook does NOT seem to give a clear indication of where these are found. Gah!

[@HowItsPlayed]

"Raw Materials" are commonly attainable in any settlement (at the GM's discretion). The book doesn't get into any sort of an ingredient list... doesn't tell you how much wood you need to make a shield or how many leather straps are needed for a breastplate. They just say "you need x-gold in materials that you should be able to purchase at any settlement". And then any materials that would not be attainable in a normal setting are listed in the item's "Craft Requirements" section and need to be sourced separately. The specifics of a potion's recipe are largely left to the player and role-playing. You could say you're visiting the local herbalist to buy ingredients for a potion (i.e. "Raw Materials"), or could spend a day of downtime exploring the wilderness for "Silverthorn" or "Nirnroot" you need for brewing. The result of that Earn Income activity would be an amount of money to be applies to the raw materials of your next potion.

[@unicornchowder]

@@HowItsPlayed Awesome! This is super helpful and I appreciate the way you laid it out. Thank you!

[@HowItsPlayed]

@@unicornchowder Happy to help!

[@umarthdc]

Simple homebrew: to craft any item, a player must pay 4 days of downtime and 2/3 of the price. Apart from that, the rules for crafting are ok.

[@dorianleakey]

Even 2/3rd's is expensive compared to real world crafting/building. 4 days work should be worth more.

[@dorianleakey]

Archives of Nethys says materials are half the cost, which is more like the real world.

[@Gears-rb2ox]

Can someone help me with a Pathfinder 2e question? So I'm playing a monk. I want to play a grappler but I also want the wholeness of body ki spell for the extra health. Do I need to take one of the level 1 monk feats that specifically say that they give me a focus point pool? Or can I just take any ki spell I want and it will automatically give me a spell pool? For instance, can wholeness of body be the only ki spell I learn without any other prerequisite, or must I absolutely take a level 1 ki spell feat beforehand? Thanks for the help.

[@ThePurpleGM]

In order to gain access to Wholeness of Body you will need to have Ki Spells accessible. This means you must get a first level Ki Spell feat. Some Ki abilities aren't bad for a non-ki focused build. Ki strike is an excellent feat for non-ki builds as it increases your chances to hit for each strike of your flurry of blows. Hope that helps.

[@Gears-rb2ox]

@@ThePurpleGM Thank you so much for your speedy reply. Im not thrilled that I have to take an additional feat just to get to wholeness of body, but i suppose it is for balancing reasons. Ill probably end up taking Ki Strike and then just using the additonal focus point to use wholeness of body a second time. Extra healing!

[@simonburling3762]

I worked out how long to make a mail hauberk, chain mail. Level 1 Item costing 6gp. Raw materials Iron wire and rivets, costs 3gp. Assuming a level 1 character who succeeds on his crafting roll. He does 2sp in value of progress per day. 30sp/2 per day+4 days, means 19 days to make a mail hauberk. I assumed that you could buy the wire already drawn. Else it would take another 19 days to convert the iron to wire. I would allow you in this case to only provide 1/4 of the materials.

[@Baraz_Red]

It seems to me what you are describing is the PF1 crafting system, which we had to tweak because it logically took months to craft a magical anything :P In what is described in the video here, there is no "value of progress" : it is 4 days, but you can lower the cost with additional days.

[@simonburling3762]

@@Baraz_Red If so, it is by accident as I was using the PF2 CRB. I do not have access to PF1 CRB. By the way both times are about 40% of the proper times from the middle ages.

[@Baraz_Red]

@@simonburling3762 Hmm, nevermind, I think you are right. It is just very similar to PF1, in the sense it can take a good amount of time (it was insane in PF1, so not so bad in PF2). I am watching the next video to see what I may be missing: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6TXlYqrZt2thbc

[@Baraz_Red]

It seems though that you can choose to craft it in 4 days, but you will pay full price. Well, that is how some read the rules (I am clearly not an expert in PF2).

[@naroe2001]

The crafting rules are pretty simplistic, but how big is that basic crafters book for all formulas to create all the common items. It would have to be a set of encyclopedias to cover everything. I find this aspect of the crafting rules, lazy writing.

[@shanemcgee9641]

Not all campaigns have a lot of downtime. And this is literally only useful for low level items and ammo. Being 10th level and crafting a 10th level magic shield would take something in the range of a year to make. Completely useless. Most campaigns I'm in have little more than a week or two between each ",event". We had to homebrew it to make it at least viable.

[@Enaronia]

It takes four days. A 10th-level Master crafter could spend additional days to reduce the amount they have to pay in materials, with some advantages and disadvantages compared to finishing it off and then using Earn Income to make money. At the absolute most that looks like it would come to 82 days, so you probably won't go for the whole discount.

[@Minandreas213]

Great video! Lousy crafting system. This will be getting some heavy modification in my game. Due to the mandatory 4 day period up front of the crafting process, you literally lose money crafting items as opposed to spending your downtime doing other jobs. As trainwreck as crafting is in 1E it at least serves the obvious desired intent behind making your own stuff. Cost efficiency. In any campaign where you have access to a metropolis, crafting will be pointless. A bard will obtain items much more efficiently by using perform checks to earn gold on downtime, and then haggle a merchant down a bit, than any crafter can do by crafting the item themselves.

[@scottruppert278]

I agree, this system is horribly flawed. I can understand the intent on a "gritty" system but it underestimates the productivity of any capable individual. Based on that example, it takes 7 days to make a single longbow? Full plate-mail armor or a clock maybe, but not a longbow. My fix on the system, make 4 hours the minimal downtime requirement and "progress" on another 4 hours work, with a daily cap of 10 hrs. Additional time may be allowed at risk of fatigue/constitution checks. With crafting checks to determine progress or setback. Earned income for coin only at 8 hours "work"a day. This breaks up the "by day" system of downtime but a lot of things can done in a day. Even in a pre-industrial revolution or medieval times there is only so much daylight but work did stop at sundown. Tools where often fixed and maintained by fire's light, and so on. Point is, Crafting in any scenario is indeed a time consuming endeavor, but also a timely process as well. If it took too long to make simple tools and weapons, humanity would not ever gotten far. Also, CRAFTING should always have a "payoff" over buying am item. In that it should be considered as a "investment" of TIME/skill/materials over COIN. Otherwise, why waste feats on crafting if there is no "profit" to it?

[@kschleic9053]

I think that this crafting system isn't intended to be used for earning money, I think it is for making uncommon or rare items that aren't necessarily available for purchase, even in a large city.

[@Enaronia]

Earning Income requires you to find a job, which could take some time. The job levels available are set by the GM, and typically limited by the location. Crafting uses a DC based on the item level and payout based on your level, which is both predictable and means you might have a low DC compared to the payout. It does have more punishing failures, though. The payouts should be similar in the end, though. Why shouldn't they be? Also, you get to make your stuff. That has any number of possible benefits--being able to get something you would have had trouble getting otherwise, notably. And you've added a haggling benefit. Don't make not-crafting better if you want to say crafting doesn't compare well. An Alchemist using Crafting to Earn Income gets exactly the same as the Bard. They're both on the list of things that are almost always good for earning income. (I've always treated the prices as a bit abstract and average. No, those probably don't cost exactly 5 gp every time you buy them, but that one cost you 52 silver, and you got a good price on the other, and then you paid a bit above average for your meal at the inn tonight and it all worked out in the end because that's what the numbers are for.)

[@sbmasonator]

is it just me, or is crafting pointless? you don’t save any money unless you craft for a few decades. makes no sense.

[@zarthemad8386]

this setup is worst than 3e rules.... so most DM/GMs would shit can it. dont even think about magic crafting... less you have the full price of the item lying around and a 4 day window to magic it into existence

[@DieFrauAmHerd]

Compare it to dnd, you cant craft in dnd at all. There are no real rules for it. Now in dnd every party member wants to get a +1 weapon. Y'all be buying those for (at least according to standard price) for 500gp each. In pathfinder with one formular for a rune to get you +1 Weapons you can just craft the rune, while traveling on the road (if you move slowly) by simply investing the money in the materials. Because material rules are written vaguely its easy to just get them by in lets say a small village, then 4 +1 weapons for your party, and with that for every member in the weapon they want. its all about how your game is run and the opportunity you get, if you play in a capital city where you can buy anything, surely there is no need to craft

[@tabunga4669]

"Paying off an item" makes no sense to me. So say you meet the prerequisites to make arrows while weeks away from civilization. HOW IS MONEY GOING TO HELP YOU FINISH ARROWS? can you NOT just gather everything you need to make arrows and make them? What if you find a forge in isolation and again you meet the prerequisites to make the item. In isolation how does gold help you finish the item? Makes NO sense to me. Can you not just get ALL of the materials needed to make anything and make it without gold?

[@ArceusShaymin]

The idea is that you make a decision - do I want to make the item at half the cost, full cost, or somewhere in-between. If you *have* the full cost of materials (and are willing to spend it to finish), the item takes 4 days, because you used everything. If you do not have (or do not wish to) spend the full cost in materials, then you can spend extra *days* to continue the item and lower its 'cost' (in materials). Every day lowers the amount of stuff needed to actually call the craft complete, presumably because you're stretching the materials throughout the project which takes logistical effort and time. If you find a forge in isolation and meet the requirements to make the item (meaning you have 50% of the cost of the item in materials), then extra days help you finish the item, not gold. It's just that the cost of the item is used in determining how many days that takes, because it's easier to assume that the more costly something is, the more complex it is.

[@tabunga4669]

@@ArceusShaymin that is what I was assuming that a player could go out and find all of the materials and craft it and pay nothing. Thus making money if they sell it Your explanation of the forge in isolation helps make sense of it. I was under the impression that you have half the materials to make something and somehow magically gold helped you with the other half. I see that you need 100% of the items cost in materials to make it but they've made rules so you can use up to just half of it. Cool thanks

[@zarthemad8386]

@@tabunga4669 the issue is that material costs should never equal the cost of the finished goods. a 12g dagger shoulnt cost 12g of steel 12g of steel is a wagon load...

[@davideckland6991]

i need to watch more carefully I missed some important info...

[@lancejobs]

I'm going to do it, make the most useless PC in PFe2 Full on crafter, Magic and mundane as if you go too far you wont even be a functional PC anymore i fear but with the 'feat' economy most of my feat pick are sub par anyways.... Going to do this as proof of how $hit PFe2 crafting is! Maybe have to go class X and archetype Y and Z to try and cheat system a bit, Skilled and adoptive heritage might also help...Seems like a broadly worded Lore Skill would give you a better focus for some crafting? -Ahh 4 days for anything that makes perfect sense. -Hmm random GM item DCs just what a GM needs to stop the fun and the plan. -Secret #7 your GM can't be a huge dick and let you gain said item BP and materials or that the item EVEN EXISTS for arbitrary reasons. -SO what happens to materials if you hit 0gp sounds like you don't get them or actual GP back just made a nicer item... pointless if you are using in party.....SO i might get the 1/2 GP cost back yeah i miss e1 crafting with all its crassness

[@cookieghost7570]

the ONE dislike lmao

[@zarthemad8386]

this is an even worse crafting system than DnD 3.5....

[@PaulSpurgeon]

Levels on items is the worst thing Paizo has done. So much for sandbox tabletop RPG play.