Pathfinder: WotR - Ranking 199 Classes Part 5: Bloodrager & Archetypes

[@phantomvulpe791]

I actually had fun with reformed fiend. An fiend working his path for redemption and is doing everything in his power to face the monsters who created him even if it kills him

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup I think thematically it is a great option.

[@Mikrowelliger]

Reformed fiend going demon mythic path sounds like funny RP.

[@phantomvulpe791]

@@Mikrowelliger that's a yikes for me. I don't want to halt my levels on that class just for that. I actually used this class as Azata and Angel and it was so fun to RP

[@mediumvillain]

I picked Reformed Fiend for my first character for RP, there's a lot of tiefling specific dialogue that fits extremely well with the class concept, and it also happens to be extremely functional as a reach weapon damage dealer who can self-buff. Doesnt lose very much besides not being a Primalist.

[@EvilTwinn]

Bloodrager is fantastic. My first run through was as a primalist bloodrager, and I don't regret it at all. That character was incredibly strong, and saved a lot of buff slots for other people.

[@nixedification]

I'm actually playing a primalist bloodrager right now for my first playthrough lmao

[@q306005]

One of my favorite thematic characters I made was Landus, a knight who succumbed to the rage of his draconic bloodline, but through the guidance of the gold dragon gains redemption. He was a Steelblood/Dragon Disciple who was more of a tank than anything else. Really fun and unique play through.

[@phantomvulpe791]

I did something similar but primalist with red dragon and abyssal as a trickster cause he loooooves to getting to fights and getting into trouble in Gorum's name. I also another run did primalist/thug cause he leads a crew of criminals and wants to deal with the threat messing with his crew's turf

[@BrandonHeat21]

I honestly like the Spelleater for role playing purposes. I used that class with my Dhampir to make an ever regenerating Vampire Lord. While there are certainly more effective ways to play and it's less useful on the higher difficulties, I like the class fantasy of that one a lot.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Nice that actually sounds like a fun playthrough.

[@KingslayerSrb]

Amazing series, thank you so much for this!

[@SlanderedGaming]

You're so welcome!

[@grapejuice2589]

I'm truly excited for this series. It's Informative and really useful. thanks dude.

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure!

[@AncroKT]

Bloodrager is my favorite class, and it's not even close. Having a Skald in your party can make Primalist feel a little less necessary and maybe boost the other options a bit, but considering that there are enough rage powers that you could be stacking up with each other there's also no harm in having both of them in the party. I don't have a ton else to day about the class, other than maybe encouraging people to try half orc with it so you can use the fun orcish double axes they have in the game, or human with exotic weapon proficiency in double swords. Bloodrage pairs better with lots of weapon attacks instead of fewer big hits.

[@neilmowles9581]

How come it works better with multiple attacks over just one big one?

[@AncroKT]

@@neilmowles9581 I apparently never saw that you commented this, so hopefully you see my response: the rage bonus to damage is a flat amount per hit, so if you want to maximize the amount of bonus damage you get with it using a double weapon allows you to do that while also still focusing on strength for the big power attack hits as the primary head of the weapon still deals 1.5x damage.

[@ANONM60D]

Brother you're a flippin encyclopedia. Can't wait to learn more, thank you.

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure! Glad you have ben enjoying the series!

[@jezebel8551]

Love this series! And your channel in general!

[@smack5472]

I did Steelblood for my first run of the game and it really was an enjoyable class to play.

[@furioni333]

Hell yeah, much respect and love to piccolo.

[@randomdud668]

This series is amazing

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you!

[@shiontanaka4103]

Awesome as always!

[@Silvitewolf]

I think blood rager may be my favorite my first run through was a reformed fiend with a reach weapon... raging and growing and thus increasing range was fun!

[@SlanderedGaming]

I've always enjoyed the thought of a Reformed Fiend Azata playthrough.

[@MidKnightOTC]

I'm trying out a spelleater bloodrager with undead bloodline as a blight born elf. Honestly, I'm a little scared 😅

[@ThePigKnight]

Mixed blood is good for elemental and dragon bloodlines so you can change your type for the day.

[@dagonofthedepths]

Guess it should be noted that if you take a class that gives a mountable pet you can use that for Bloodrider. Like with me I took the Cavalier: Beast Rider subclass so I can pick a Smilodon (really because I was making a portrait and a patch changed the cat to a horse). You lose your final rage buff so your rage is stuck at +3 not 4 and if you did what I did and get to lv 2 in beast rider you lose 1 DR but really 5 DR I never found super useful on core. Guess it means a Marilith will hit you for 160 something instead of 190 something but I'd rather get the melee fear stuff faster. But that does work if you want to take a 1 or 2 lv dip and I think it works thematically if you want to be a barbarian lord leading a crusade.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Ooooo nice that is an interesting option! Thank you!

[@mattbond3512]

Are you going to review all the bloodlines( for bloodrager/sorrcer)? They are basicly a second arcatype.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Oooo that's an interesting video idea. I might do that after we get through with this series.

[@TheRavenShadowsWolf]

Spell eater - why someone would take this: Because there's a hat in the game that gives you Fast healing up to a set amount if you have 5 Bard levels and can cast song. Add 7 levels of Spell eater Bloodrager and it becomes Fast Healing while raging & also while casting song. (Two options = more chances to get Fast Healing/Auto Regen) Add Azata's Constitution Superpower for that Fast healing to always be at least 5. [I will note; I am NOT yet sure that this will stack if you activate the other two options - but it would be sweet] Add in a weapon that can heal you on a crit (Bastard Sword of Hope is probably locked off because Lawful alignment restricted, but I'm hopeful of other kinds, since there is an evil based flail) Altogether you probably have an Immortal Character there. If it all works like I'm hoping when I go for my Azata run. * It's VERY specific, and I know it. I just wish I could say for certain fast healing from different sources does stack. Because then you have Duncan Macloud of the clan Macloud. There CAN be only one; and whatd'you know, it's a Solo Run... no, wait. That's Mario Van Peebles >.< (Who was kinda copying Jean Claude Van Damme; but it was still a decent movie. So was the one he did where he plays a cop that turns into a werewolf. Though I forget the exact title, it did also star Bruce Payne and Patsy Kensit. Who had a habit of playing intriguing Love Interests that bite it before the movie's done : / )

[@mattdespard6576]

Bloodrider doesn’t actually get their mount until level 5, so even with the boon companion feat it’ll still be a level behind other pet builds. Not sure why they did that but it makes a big (adverse) difference IMO

[@SlanderedGaming]

WACK. Good call out I missed that.

[@HS-hx8ti]

Mixed-Blood Rager is low-key S+ and my favorite class. Why? Both Abyssal and Serpentine heritage gives you increase weapon reach, and all sources of weapon reach stack. Combine that with a reach weapon, and you're basically a ranged melee character. In exchange you give up a bunch of low-level spells that from my point of view only clutter your action bar. Haste is the only big sacrifice, but you're likely to have other characters that can cast this.

[@moonlight2870]

If you take primalist with serpentine bloodline, grab fiend totem and the bite rage power (animal fury?), be a motherless tiefling for the bite attack, grab close to the abyss, brutality incarnate and second bloodline mythic powers, grab draconic as your second bloodline so you can become a dragon disciple, grab a few mutagem warrior levels to unlock the bite discover, equip the fin helmet and finally go demon as your mythic path, you get a fucking scary natural weapon build. That's 5 bites 3 gores and 2 claws everytime you attack, and those ignore all damage reduction.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah that's a brutal combination.

[@chrispaul7595]

steelblood is quite good, there is a heavy armor in act 4 thats special effect is uncanny dodge. had a blast with steelbloodrager with my first demon playthrough. falchions are really good

[@SlanderedGaming]

Oh nice I don't think I noticed that armor before. Great call out.

[@chrispaul7595]

@@SlanderedGaming i Should say improved uncanny dodge

[@superkami8618]

And it lets your Bloodrager use Carapace and Perfect Storm. Though idk if they ever fixed the latter one

[@chrispaul7595]

@@superkami8618 carapace and perfect storm now work

[@oneutch4048]

The advantage of classes that use heavy armor is discarding dex and using pure strength builds with reach weapons (glaives for instance) and enlarge person, that plus rage and other str bonuses demolish people/demons. I'm running a celestial bloodline steelblood and he hits like a truck, Camelia, Seela and her horse do the tanking part, my char is behind doing the damage. Sometimes enemies ignore them and attack my char, but armor ac is enough to avoid at least the iterative attacks.

[@SlanderedGaming]

The thing I hate about Pathfinder is you can get AC up higher by not having armor or a shield which feels backwards.

[@oneutch4048]

@@SlanderedGaming yeah, is weird when every archer hits your full plate warrior, but the unarmored rogue evade them like an anime character.

[@kellysamuel3383]

I think Steel blood or hell knight signifier dip is required for heavy armor caster RPs that are not magus

[@blackfistxu7953]

👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@Mikrowelliger]

Honeslty the mixed rager could get away with a c+ because it allows you to be more fleixble with your bloodline powers without losing anything compared to base bloodrager. Also i wonder if a spellcaster could go 5 points into steelblood and then consume a level 7 (or even 8?) spell for a whopping 2 to 3 points deflection AC higher than shield of faith. In all honesty though it should be limited to spells from the bloodrager spellbook and give a stacking AC bonus. A maximum bonus of 4 would still not make the archetype overly powerful.

[@SlanderedGaming]

My question though is what kind of build benefits from switching between bloodlines? Most of the time I think you make a build with a specific bloodline in mind.

[@Mikrowelliger]

@@SlanderedGaming I mean i guess for specific extra reistances, i guess? Its not really like you have to make a specific build for each bloodline so switching between them wont break your character. For example switching to something with lightning damage for that one laboratory dungeon. I dont know the exact benefits of each bloodline of the top of my head so I can´t give more concrete example. But being able to switch between bloodlines with no downside is at least theoretically a straight upgrade to base bloodrager, if only a small one. Thats why i said C+ and not B I also dont know how mixed rager interacts with the "second bloodline" mythic ability, can you change both bloodlines? Is the second one fixed?

[@okeson9301]

Unless it is difficult, it might be worth just having the breakdown attached to each video. Just put a little blurb skip too XX:XX if you already know the info where video starts.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I thought about that but I HATEEEEEEE putting content in my videos that I know for a fact most people are going to skip. I am real big on don't waste people's time so it was hard to justify putting in the rankings every time.

[@scottsomerset7100]

This may be in the weeds, but do you think there’s a remotely reasonable way to combine bloodrider and beastrider to get the good bloodline stuff on a non-horse?

[@SlanderedGaming]

I haven't tested it yet but somebody just commented that pet levels from another class stack with Bloodrider. They specifically mentioned you can get a better pet from Beast Master and then switch over to Bloodrider. Try it out. :)

[@scottsomerset7100]

Thanks, you’re awesome. Love the channel!

[@Kammereer]

Bloodrager is a great class, easily better than a Barbarian in every way. And even though Primalist is built different, all archetypes are at least as good as the core class. IMHO, if you want to be a melee fighter - Bloodrager is easily in the top 3.

[@notalefty999]

Erm no its not. Bloodline powers and bloodrager spellcasting (which is really bad) is not worth the loss of rage powers, which are good. The primalist specifically essentially trades bloodline powers for rage powers, so gets the really bad bloodrager spellcasting basically for free over the base barbarian, but its not a large upgrade because of how underwhelming bloodrager spellcasting is. And the Barbarian itself is a merely OK fighter. It cannot hold a candle to a sohei, deliverer, mutagen warrior, demon slayer, rowdy rogue, or base paladin (though you only need 1 for mark of justice). It is most definitely not top 3. It also faces the serious drawback of not stacking with skald.

[@Kammereer]

@@notalefty999 Mirror image and Haste are easily worth the loss of rage powers. The amazing part of Barbarian is beast totem into Pounce, which you can get by either being a Primalist or being a Kitsune. And both Sohei and Rowdy Rogue are much better off as a dip on a good class (like bloodrager) than as a full class in of themselves. Rowdy especially, is great as a one level dip and has little to offer past that.

[@notalefty999]

@@Kammereer What? Firstly, haste is an AOE buff that you can cast at level 5. Unless you pump your charisma to 16, a bloodrager cannot cast it until level 11, and even then, it will be once a day, for 8 rounds. Your mage will probably have around 10 castings a day at that point, and half of those extended. Granted, you will probably take haste, because there is basically nothing else worth taking by that point, but you cannot seriously argue that you should take a class because, by the mid to late game, you can save your arcane caster some low level spell slots. As for mirror image, bloodragers dont tank well. The only effective defence for them is to not be the focus of attacks, because you are going to die rather fast even with mirror image if dangerous enemies attack you. Late game, it will often be completely ignored by true sight. That being the case, you increase size, use a reach weapon, or mount. You dont want to tank hits as a bloodrager. And if you arent, mirror image isnt helping you. As for rage powers, its not just pounce. Its the increased crit multiplier, bite attack and +6 to hit (and natural AC). As for kitsune. these take a -4 penalty to strength compared to a race with a strength bonus, so not really a great option. Rowdy rogue is not a dip class. You need 11 levels to get greater vital strike. Otherwise, you are waiting until level 17 at earliest. And the sneak attack progression adds a LOT to vital strike damage, particularly early game, and you wont get opportunist before level 10. Its generally optimal to multiclass after level 11, but 55% of your levels is not a dip. Its the core of your build. You will also play it pure rowdy until level 11. As for Sohei, weapon training, animal companion and flurry of blows all scale with level. You dont even get weapon training until level 6 (this is essential, as you cannot flurry of blows with good weapons before then, and you also get a significant bonus from gear with any ranks of weapon training), and flurry of blows' second attack is level 11. Take more than 4 levels in a non animal companion class, and you are gimping your animal companion. At a minimum, you must take it to at least level 6, and to be honest, level 11 (2nd rank of weapon training and 2nd flurry attack) is the sweet spot for multiclassing to something like a cavalier. Again, this is not a dip, and you sure as hell dont want to multiclass to bloodrager.

[@Kammereer]

With Arcane bloodline you apply Haste to yourself every time you enter Bloodrage starting at level 8 so you are hasted in every combat.

[@notalefty999]

@@Kammereer Again, its an AOE buff. You are going to cast it on the entire party in any challenging encounter. How is a convenience feature (as well as restricting yourself to a single bloodline), worth the loss of rage powers?

[@MuppetLord1]

Could see a cleric angel or sylvan sorcerer lich summoner to be quite powerful since you can get 24 hr summons. :)

[@Kammereer]

From practical experience, long-lasting summons are not worth it. They are just a hassle in the game, constantly triggering traps, provoking encounters early or lagging way behind, and making movement in dungeons awkward. I've played a Monster Tactician Aeon, and I'd never do it again.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I am not a fan of summoning in this game. If it's your cup of tea by all means go for it but as someone who loves summoners I can say it's not implemented quite right in this game.

[@alex-uw4mm]

i really wanna try out serpentine bloodline. you get 5feet range increase on your melee and end up turning into a bloody hydra

[@SlanderedGaming]

That Hydra part is REALLY interesting.

[@mediumvillain]

I considered it after I saw that lol. Bloodrager bloodlines have some rly unique twists on the sorcerer bloodlines.

[@PsyKotyK]

Im really annoyed that there isnt an actual ps5 versionnon this game i keep looking at it but just cant do di knowing it willbget cheeper abd prolly better [ ps5 version ]. But its hard to wait .Good job teaching stuff getting me ready for the game. U have done alot of content on this game . Must be one of ur favs?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah I love this game and hope it comes out on PS5 soon. By the end of this year I'll probably run out of content and finally move on to other properties.

[@dominikbehrendt1934]

Bloodrager Primalist is... okay, but the entire class suffers (just like Barbarian and other raging archetypes) from being compared to having a Skald in your party.

[@oneutch4048]

That depends in the party's composition, I could prefer a bloodrager in a party with a lot of casters/archers where I could prefer the skald in a group with melees and animals.

[@dominikbehrendt1934]

@@oneutch4048 well, if I were to make an entire party based on casters (which would probably be a bad idea anyway), melee support would be so bad it'd make more sense to fill the final slot in the party with another caster instead of a bloodrager.

[@oneutch4048]

@@dominikbehrendt1934 My actual party are two melees (br, paladin), zenn/mutagen war archer, wizard, oracle and Eldritch Scoundrel. If I swapped out the BR for a Skald the only ones to take advantage of the rage are the paladin and her mount. (in some cases the scoundrel, but I prefer him to be able to cast spells). In that context I prefeer the full bab from the bloodrager over the shared rage.

[@dominikbehrendt1934]

@@oneutch4048 is that Seelah/Lann/Nenio/Daeran/Woljif? if so, fair enough, it's not what I'd call optimized but if it works for you that's all that matters. I for one wouldn't have an Woljif or any Eldritch Scoundrel casting during battle because I rate melee attacks with sneak attacks higher and would always have the oracle go for a pet.

[@oneutch4048]

@@dominikbehrendt1934 Yes I'm using them and you're right about scoundrels, but some times I use snowball or ray spells in enemies that are flat footed or under cc (grease for instance) or need to recast mirror images or another buff in battle.

[@Wft-bu5zc]

Primalist is broken now on anyone except the main character so... yea don't take that if you're not taking it on your main character. It gives you NO bloodline OR rage powers, so it's literal trash.

[@WildFungus]

Reformed Fiends gain 15 dr at level 19 vs anything bu 90% of enemies in the game and it's 'not bad' lolololol

[@SlanderedGaming]

In my opinion DR isn't a monster ability for you the way it is for enemies. Still I probably shouldn't have been so dismissive of it. LOL

[@WildFungus]

@@SlanderedGaming it isn't its pretty bad typed evil like the worst I think because of that reformed fiend is like the worst racial arch like it's pretty bad because everything in the game bypasses this damage reduction, why even scale it at all? haha

[@notalefty999]

Bloodrager is a bad class. Bloodrager spell casting is exceptionally bad, and nowhere near as useful as other classes even with a similar slow spell casting progression like ranger and paladin. These classes have spell books that reflect their combat roles and very slow spell progression, focussing on personal or unique buffs, and almost no offensive spells. Bestow grace, bless weapon, eagle soul, hurricane bow, aspect of the wolf, sense vitals and instant enemy are all examples of great spells that you cannot simply get another party member to cast. For bloodragers, there is basically shield, mirror image and the false life spells. Thats it. Everything else is either offensive magic you cannot use effectively, or non personal buffs other classes will have given you several levels earlier. You would be crazy to pump charisma, or take the necessary metamagic, spell focus and spell pen feats to make offensive casting remotely effective on a class with such a weak spell progression. Mirror image, shield and false life are not enough to make bloodrager a good tank. Bloodline features also pale in comparison to their sorcerer counterparts. There is no +6 inherent strength bonus from abyssal bloodline for example. You get a rather limited selection of bonus feats and generally pretty weak features besides that. To get mediocre bloodline powers and really weak spellcasting, you lose rage powers. Rage powers are actually strong, giving +6 to hit, x1 increase to multiplier, a bite attack, pounce and +6 natural AC to point to the benefits of the most popular rage power choices. Its not like a Barbarian is even a particularly good class itself, and the bloodrager is significantly worse.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I agree that all of the Bloodlines aren't good but the Arcane option is INCREDIBLE. Primalist is better than anything you can get from Barbarian and Bloodrider makes a strong case as well. The other archetypes for the most part at least have a role to play depending on your preference while Barbarian's options are pretty bad outside of Instinctual Warrior and Mad Dog. Bloodrider might not blow people away but by no means is it a bad class.

[@notalefty999]

@@SlanderedGaming Primalist is an upgrade over the base barbarian, to the extent that bloodrager spellcasting is useful (its not very useful at all). But its essentially the base barbarian with bloodrager spellcasting and the option to trade rage powers for bloodline abilities, which in all honesty is seldom a good idea. Getting bloodrager spellcasting for essentially free is obviously a good deal, but its not much of an improvement. So yes, its moderately better than base barbarian. Its substantially worse than the mad dog however. You probably want 7 rage powers (beast totem line, lethal stance line and animal fury), so having only 5 rage powers baseline costs you two feats. You get a full animal companion with no restriction on type from level 1. You also get an additional +2 AB from flanking with your pet (once you can mount at level 7, this is all the time), and you can skip the bully archetype because you get the trip feat by default anyway. This gives you the bonus to trip for your dog, and qualification for tandem trip, whilst being able to get other archetype bonuses. Finally, you will get an additional AoO when your pet lands its trip, which is great. This is far better than level 1 bloodline features, or the really underwhelming bloodrager spellcasting. Bloodrider is a massive upgrade over the base bloodrager, but compared to mad dog, its rage powers for bloodline powers and bloodrager spellcasting. For reasons already mentioned, this is a bad trade. It also gets its companion later, and is restricted to horse, and doesnt get the very useful pet specific bonuses of mad dog. I also dont agree arcane bloodline is amazing. Auto buffing on rage is convenient, but its really not all that powerful. You will probably end up going for blur or haste, neither of which are personal buffs, so you could just get someone else to cast them. Haste in particular is a mandatory buff on any challenging fight, and AOE, so this wont even save you spell slots. It will just be a moderate convenience on easy fights when you wouldnt bother to haste. The bonus spell are nothing special, and the bonuses to disrupting spell casts arent very large.