Paths to Merit Transfer in Early Buddhism?

[@DougsDharma]

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[@saralamuni]

I dedicate the merit of my practice to the well-being of all sentient beings.

[@paulexander]

I've never thought of that statement as some kind of transfer of merit. This is my first time of hearing it framed this way. Whenever I say that I hope that the merits of my practice would benefit all beings, it is in reference to the idea of interbeing, that our karmic paths do indeed cross and overlap. I think it goes beyond just pleasant states of mind. Someone taught and instructed and inspired me, so why not pay that kind of influence forward.

[@DougsDharma]

Sure, there are different ways to see it.

[@xiaomaozen]

Thanks, Doug! ❤ Here's a nice story, partially about merit: Emperor Wu: "I have built many temples, copied innumerable Sutras and ordained many monks since becoming Emperor. Therefore, I ask you, what is my merit?" Bodhidharma: "None whatsoever!" Emperor Wu: "Why no merit?" Bodhidharma:: "Doing things for merit has an impure motive and will only bare the puny fruit of rebirth." Emperor Wu, a little put out: "What then is the sacred principle of Buddhism?" Bodhidharma: "Vast emptiness. Nothing sacred." Emperor Wu, by now bewildered, and not a little indignant: "Who is this that stands before me?" Bodhidharma: "I do not know." 🐱🙏

[@DougsDharma]

😄

[@yasithperera5700]

Very nice talk on this topic Doug. Merit sharing is definitely important, it's practiced in most Buddhist countries if not all. Read the Sharing of merit section on The Debate of King Millinda. 74. Sharing of Merit King Millinda asks Arahant Nàgasena “Is it possible for all deceased relatives to share in the merit of a good deed?” Arahant Nàgasena - “No. Only those who are born as hungry ghosts who feed off the merit of others are able to share in the merit. Those born in hell, those in heaven, animals, and hungry ghosts who feed on vomit, or hungry ghosts who hunger and thirst, or hungry ghosts who are consumed by craving, do not derive any profit.” King Millinda asks Arahant Nàgasena “Then the offerings in those cases are fruitless, since those for whom they were given derive no profit.” Arahant Nàgasena - “No, O king, they are not fruitless nor without result for the givers themselves derive benefit from it.” King Millinda “Convince me of this by a reason.” Arahant Nàgasena - “If some people prepared a meal and visited their relatives but those relatives did not accept the gift, would that gift be wasted?” King Millinda “No, venerable sir, the owners themselves would have it.” Arahant Nàgasena - “Just so, O king, the givers derive benefit from their almsgiving.”

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks! 🙏

[@TheJosephHammond]

@DougsDharma Thank you for sharing friend. Do the early Suttas say anything about rejoicing in relation to the dedication of merits? As I understand it currently dedicating the merits of one’s practice gives the opportunity for others to create their own merit through rejoicing. How wonderful. 😄🙏 As I understand it currently reading the suttas cultivating loving-kindness, in this case in the form of Mudita or Appreciative Joy , is even more meritorious then feeding the Buddha or making an offering to the Sangha as a whole with the Buddha at it’s head. 🙏 The only thing more meritorious than Loving-kindness in any form is cultivating the understanding of Impermanence. Could one say then that the dedication of merits is simply a skillful form of Metta Bhavana in the sense that we help others create the causes for happiness in their own minds by creating the causes for them to rejoice in goodness? Mindfully cultivating goodwill & sharing that goodness with others does that all together combat at once the three poisons of greed, hatred, & delusion that lead to lower realms of existence? Every Blessing. 😊🙏

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I think it can be skillful to wish to donate merits, any wish for generosity is beneficial in Buddhism, a form of metta. And so too rejoicing in generous intentions is beneficial. 🙏

[@TheJosephHammond]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@DougsDharma Oh Doug it was so Joyful to see your lovely conversation with Clear Mountain. I’m a member of their online community & It was so heart warming to see the immensely kind individuals who have contributed pieces of wood for the raft I’m using to cross the river. Thank you for the “Doug’s Dharma Branch” (which is obviously from a Douglas Fir 😄🙏) that helped me stay a float through Covid Lockdown. I particularly enjoyed your talk on philosophy. It was Schopenhauer who was the philosopher who most directly helped me go for refuge in the Three Jewels. Have you read Schopenhauer and his relationship with Buddhism? Would you ever consider doing a video on him? Regardless. Thank you for your kind & generous practise. May you be triple blissfully happy & well, everywhere, always. 🙂🙏 🌻☀️🌻

[@fingerprint5511]

Thanks Doug 🙏

[@DougsDharma]

Very welcome! 🙏

[@JMKrauss1]

Thank you for that Video and explanation! I do agree with most of it, although I do think thats there are texts in the early buddhism which cant be explained with that view. Just to name an excample: The Story of Angulimāla (MN 86), where Angulimāla can ease the pain of an woman giving birth. There are a few more examples where monks seemed to be able to make a change for other peoples outcome just with their wish. Beides your explanation its maybe interesting to mention that in most buddhist traditions nowdays (including the Theravada) people believe that sharing merits is possible.

[@DougsDharma]

In the case of Angulimala it's not really clear what's going on. Usually it's understood as a kind of "truth-act" that is protective, but only if what Angulimala says is understood a particular way. It isn't clearly a case of merit-transference. But yes, traditionally merit-transference is understood to be possible. Here is my video on Angulimala, FWIW: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKGXhZRqfLCjg7M

[@JMKrauss1]

Oh. Thanks for sharing that video!

[@fingerprint5511]

Doug, your interview with Ajahn Kovilo and Ajahn Nisabho ... 'Secular Buddhism Without the Beef: A Contemporary Conversation on Awakening | Doug Smith' ... on Clear Mountain Monastery channel was excellent! I listen to those two every episode like I do yours, so it was wonderful to listen to you all together! Sadhu! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 LINK - kzbin.info/www/bejne/fV6rhXyEgs6IgZI

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, it's just out! 🙏😊

[@andrewtom8407]

I think Merit in Buddhism is a rather abstract concept like Emptiness. It's not an object that one can pass from one individual to another. However, if we look at "merit" as merely a concept being passed from one to another, then it may make more sense. In fact, as presented in this video, the Buddha said that "No one can purify another". The best one can do is to "instruct" and to "inspire" another, such as the Buddha delivering His knowledge to His followers. In my understanding, "Merit Transfer" is a practice of "non-self" used to inspire the recipient. During such "Merit Transfer", one is indeed accumulating another layer of merit. In this sense, "Merit Transfer" can be some never-ending phenomenon. However, since "merit" is simply a concept that serves some purpose, it is a temporary phenomenon and thus is "Empty". For this reason, a better practice is not to have "merit" in our minds.

[@ThangTran-bj4we]

Yes Doug, you are right that "one has to purify oneself", however in Buddhism, nothing is fixed. Buddha dharma is like a boat to help us cross the river, once you got on the other side, the boat can be discarded. SO the teachings is like a tool, like the finger pointing to the moon, don't attach too much on to it.

[@SriLestari-px9lg]

As long as we have not reached the other side, we should keep on the boat.

[@DougsDharma]

🙏😊

[@davjd5678]

I realize that my example is a crude rendition of the teaching, but as I watched your video, I thought about the popular phrase of "pay it forward." That phrase does not reflect the nuance of the teaching you provide. But in every day practice, it's an idea of using the things that are available to me and providing them to the next person.

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, that's a great attitude to life.

[@Rcats14]

Hi Doug, I've been enjoying your videos for a while now, and I was curious about what your argument would be against B Alan Wallace on consciousness being not from the brain? I've been thinking rebirth was quite convincing for a few years, but I have recently lost faith in that idea, and am a little stuck. I read your article on rebirth and found that more convincing than things said by monks that are quite vague and the idea we've had endless past lives.

[@DougsDharma]

Well I think the best route to figuring out objective facts about consciousness is to talk with cognitive psychologists and neuroscientists who study such things. We know we can alter or remove consciousness through brain interventions. That's a start. But there are lots of questions that remain, as I mentioned in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWKzn2lrhr-ckNU

[@Rcats14]

@DougsDharma Hi Doug, thanks for the reply and link. It's great you reply to so many comments on here. Very good. I'm a big watcher of Ajahn Sona, and he's very convincing, but I need to find what I think is most rational for myself.

[@alexiscampero8515]

In temples, it is common practice to share merits with the departed through the use of water, but is this mentioned in the texts?

[@DougsDharma]

Not to my knowledge, at least in the suttas ... if anyone knows otherwise I'd be interested to hear. There is a Vedic technique of bathing away bad karma that the Buddha criticizes, however.

[@iancampbell1494]

(Off topic) so are you yourself a Buddhist? I’ve been really struggling with Buddhism because I dont feel like Buddhism offers much to lay people?…the teaching makes a great deal of sense it just seems like it’s all driven toward monasticism and I just don’t want to be a monk.

[@SriLestari-px9lg]

My thought exactly!

[@DougsDharma]

Sure, I've done any number of videos on what Buddhism has to say to laypeople, and an entire course on it as well over at the Online Dharma Institute. Much of the Buddha's teaching to monastics is relevant to laypeople as well.

[@DougsDharma]

And for my views: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4XbfJqwbbKYjck

[@blairpittams9380]

As I'm not a nice person in heart, though i try. Would you suggest first finding the Buddhist peace of mind before transferring my heart

[@DougsDharma]

Yes I think it would be great to find a local meditation teacher who could start you on the path.

[@bassmonk2920]

We reduce our self cherishing by giving away our merit for the benefit of others.

[@maradasa985]

Great video as always, I would like to propone a topic for a video since I had this doubt recently about the relation of buddhism with the caste system. Since on some documentaries and articles online I see an oposition but then I see some scholars rejecting this oposition and the relation is not clear to me, perhaps other feel the same about it. Sorry for my broken english

[@DougsDharma]

Thanks! I have a past video about Buddhism and caste that might be relevant: kzbin.info/www/bejne/npbJn4Fuia2gq6s

[@whoeverofhowevermany]

Um, of course you can share your merits. That's what language is. And you don't even have to give them away. Your listener gets their own copy. 😶

[@DougsDharma]

Sure!

[@whoeverofhowevermany]

@@DougsDharma but, as your response there shows, the copy isn't always complete, because I don't know exactly what that means 😂

[@soemyintlulu]

One cannot purify others doesn't mean one cannot transfer merit to others.

[@GregoryPrimosch]

There are two uses of the transfer of merit that I am aware of, the second of which you did not mention. 1) by developing good mental qualities, you are implicitly benefiting all beings you interact with, now and in the future (AN 8.39) 2) departed spirits (petas) of relatives receive encouragement if merit is dedicated to them due to their relationship with the giver (AN 10.177)

[@DougsDharma]

Yes, I'm not sure how or whether the second is really different from the first.

[@GregoryPrimosch]

@@DougsDharmaI interpret 1) to be about the observable effects on the world of living a harmless life, while 2) is a more metaphysical idea that spirits can be encouraged by witnessing you dedicate merit to them.

[@markbrad123]

I dont believe in story Karma. Such I think is really just a product of social memory and people's favor or rejection. The Universe don't keep a naughty list. You might aswell believe in Santa if you think that. Actual Karma is just the law of physics - for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction -rocket science.

[@andrewyam7938]

Karma is more like chaos theory rather than classical Newtonian physics. It's cause and effect but the effect is modulated by the effects of countless other causes manifesting at the same time. So one cannot predict what the exact effect of any particular action will be on one's wellbeing, or when it will manifest. Could be instantly, later in life, or even multiple lifetimes later. To put it in a scientific simile, It's more like the butterfly flapping its wings resulting ultimately in a hurricane half way around the world, rather than an action resulting in an equal and opposite reaction.

[@andrewyam7938]

Therefore it can seem like one has a store of karma accumulated from previous lifetimes, as the effects of those actions have not manifested yet, and will not manifest until conditions are right

[@markbrad123]

@@andrewyam7938 Entropy ?

[@peterquest6406]

I think this is a bit warm and fuzzy for me and sounds good but hardly true or based on fact.thats fine if it makes you do good things.i do find a lot of Buddhism practical and beneficial in everyday life,I work with that,other parts are a bit to far fetched for me.just my opinion 😊

[@DougsDharma]

Sure, work with the parts you find most beneficial.