Patriot: Champion Spotlight with Context

[@edisonlaw934]

DLL, so the reversal, does it work like an autoblock? If so is it countered by anti autoblock effects like true accuracy or true sense or undermine?

[@Daddylonglegs93]

No, reversal is not an auto-block. You shouldn't expect any of the ways you answer auto-block to answer it

[@jonf5679]

Is there any counter? aa reduction, unblockable, unstoppable

[@Daddylonglegs93]

I talk about this in the video 🙂 One thing I left out is that it is subject to AAR, yes

[@jonf5679]

@@Daddylonglegs93 thanks so archangel and magneto if metal

[@station8678]

I remember when we could have had Kate as a 7*. 29:09 I, too, failed to realize how power when we voted last year.

[@Mordius-]

As a scorpion enjoyer I'm really glad to hear the team will eventually adjust the passive AI when you're charging a heavy attack!

[@ThePoolo12]

His sinergys made me realize that I love all the new avengers I can't wait for viv to be a 7*

[@Daddylonglegs93]

I'm glad you like them, but small correction - young avengers, not new avengers, and Viv is neither, but instead a member of the champions haha. But I also want 7* Viv!

[@ThePoolo12]

@@Daddylonglegs93 lmao 😂 I'm gonna have to start reading some comics, thanks

[@blackhole5353.]

When I was watching the Kabam stream I saw a pause during his rotation, thought to myself “ok this is the DLL champ” lol. Excited to see how he fit in the contest.

[@MrPabIito]

Thanks for these insightful vids!

[@stat32j.]

Loving Eli's design! Some really unique and interesting pieces of utility there. This guy looks like he'll be a great War attacker Maybe I'll even pop my early access cherry??? (Thanks for these vids; love the content!)

[@TairiqueTuray]

I got Patriot as a 7* champ and took him to rank 2… I love the champions character design and animations but as an unawakened champion… he has basically ZERO utility & there’s no reason to actually use him. I wanted to make him my next R3 but without pulling a 7* Patriot and duping him after… the 7* is useless and will still have to waste materials on a 6* version because of this. Wish some of his utility was in his base kit.

[@Daddylonglegs93]

good news, then! His miss counter, his resistance to heal reversal, his ability to quickly and easily gain combo, his ability to knock down without granting the opponent all the power a heavy or a special entails, and his constant willpower healing are all available in his base kit. I'm sorry you're not happy atm, but you're definitely focusing too much on the sig imo

[@TairiqueTuray]

@@Daddylonglegs93 I appreciate the extra info. I don’t even have the willpower mastery so i’ll need to get that then lol. Apart from that though, the other abilities you mentioned don’t really make him useful over most other skill champs with more affective and accessible utility. I try to use him whenever he’s at least 1% useful because he’s super fun to play… but I’ll still need to persue the 6* version to access his stand out abilities I guess. Like I said, he’s super fun to play though so it’s frustrating. Thanks for the info.

[@IGotKitFistoed]

Hey DLL, i pulled a 6 star patriot and i love the reversal mechanic. i like the design of patriot but i wish he has more consistent damage and utility. is there any news on a tune up for him? i would really like to see what you would do with his tune up because you make really good and affective champions. the skill class needs some help too so if anyone can save the skill class it’s you. i want to use him in more matchups then just photon he’s so cool.

[@teebleezy8466]

My favorite champs are the ones who answer specific problems; i see a node/champ combo and think "X addresses those issues". Patriot is yet another in a growing line of your champs that do just that.

[@spiderman-2416]

Did it feel weird designing the perfect counter to one of your own champions? 🤔

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Not really? It's the job, and the problem solving experience is pretty similar. Definitely a touch of amusement to the process, though lol

[@spiderman-2416]

@@Daddylonglegs93 And thats why your the best Champion Designer. 😎

[@Stubbsy0703]

Genuinely excited to try Patriot when he comes to the game 😊

[@SatoruGojo_007]

I recently got him from a titan I think he has good damage but feels somewhat lacking in the utility department as in he doesn't have debuff purify or cleanse he also doesn't have any AAR abilities like black cat or black panther I know we can't have it all so it's alright if he doesn't have these I just feel his precision passives should be paused during opponent's special attack that would make his damage to sustain a lot longer another thing that would make him stand out more would be increased combat power rate for each resolve debuff above 7 ( 5% for each will give him 15% extra combat power rate at 10 resolve debuffs ) I say this because I have been pushed to sp3 while trying to get opponent to dash into my heavy and building back to another sp2 takes a lot of time either this or he could disable sp3 for some time when the reversal happens that way we don't have to worry about being at certain power to maximize his damage

[@Daddylonglegs93]

I don't really agree about the utility. There's a lot going on here that's just more subtle than the usual skill stuff. I understand that inherently means it's less obvious how to apply it. I definitely don't agree about the precisions. The whole point of them is that you get them from knockdowns and then hold onto them for a while until you have to knock down again. NOT to get them and just hold them forever. The opponent throwing a special is the intentional, explicit release valve. About the heavy, though, I recommend you spend some time practicing blocking a hit and then immediately charging heavy. It's much more reliable than just charging heavy and hoping the opponent will charge in, and getting that down makes it much harder to get pushed to Sp3. I understand what you're describing, because I've had it happen as well, but I don't think the answer is to give him enough power gain that he doesn't care if you mismanage it. I've seen focusing on that help the people in my alliance feel much better about him quickly.

[@SatoruGojo_007]

@@Daddylonglegs93 first of all thank you for the quick reply the utility part as you said in the video, we don't have the content where he shines yet so I hope there soon comes content where we can fully utilise him the way he is supposed to about the precisions after some more time with him I understand your decision about specials being release valve as they are paused when we are hitting the opponent ( even while using the relic ) if they paused during opponent's specials as well he will indefinitely have the precisions and that would make him broken in damage department about the heavy I feel it's more of AI being passive than how we make use of it, definitely need to try more ways to get the AI to dash in. I've had some luck by stopping the combo in the middle dashing back and when the AI dashes towards us then hold the heavy ( only try this with AI having no full bar of power ) finally about the increased power gain I still feel he should have somewhat increased power gain above 7 resolve debuffs and this time it's not about the mismanaging of his power but about making him a level above in long form content. I know we can use sp3 3 times to lower the amount of resolve debuffs consumed per reversal by 3 and that's great but giving him the increased power gain wouldn't make him broken ( as we would be able to make use of it when we have to build sp3s back to back without using reversal as after using reversal we will be at or below 7 resolve debuffs ) but it's your champion and you have to take into account balance of the game as well, these are just my thaughts about what I would like to have and nothing else. This isn't the place to have these lengthy discussions so I'll stop my rambling here and lastly thank you for taking time to read and even reply each and every comment even when you are busy working 🙏🏻.

[@Daddylonglegs93]

I hear you and appreciate the thoughts and consideration. We have a few levers to pull if the data says we need it.

[@TairiqueTuray]

⁠​⁠@@Daddylonglegs93I hope the data says you need it so you can add more of your ideas to him and make him better. He’d easily be my next R3 after that. He’s my favourite champ already. Plus nice video i’ve watched it twice 🤘🏽

[@SatoruGojo_007]

@@Daddylonglegs93 Hello I'm back again I have duped my patriot since the last time I was here I like to use him and his damage is pretty good I just have 1 request and that is to give him increased combat power rate per Resolve debuff ( previously I thought only above 7 resolve debuffs is sufficient but giving him increased combat power rate per resolve will be a lot better IMO ) Kingpin has 5% increased combat power rate PER DEBUFF & he can have 7 at most so maxing increase in power rate at 35% So giving patriot 3% increased combat power rate per Resolve will cap it at maximum 30% extra power rate it will not only help him in long form content for those back to back sp3s but in short to medium fights as well In ROL I can get sp2 and sp1 in 1 reversal cycle. Sometimes if AI is co-operative I can get 2 sp2s ( I play like they can throw sp3s ). if he had extra power rate then getting 2 sp2s off in a single reversal cycle will be a lot easier and he should be able to punch up & finish fights with 1 sp1, reversal into 2 sp2s it would really help him overcome passive AI and make full use of the fury and precision from the reversal

[@arrushmurali1206]

Just thinking out loud, Patriot also seems like an Aegon successor with the combo shield and near-guaranteed big yellow numbers

[@Daddylonglegs93]

In that one sense, yeah. Very different feel to the ramp and utility, though

[@captaincrit]

Thinking about it, the idea of comboing Reversal immediately into an Unblockable Special 2 for maximum effectiveness feels a lot like an offensive, player-side version of the way Bullseye on defense is coded to combo his Counter-Attack into an Unblockable Special.

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Yeah I definitely see the similarity!

[@toritreadwell119]

Foreign Chemical Immunity: The Super Soldier Serum in his body are efficient enough to keep him from becoming intoxicated by alcohol, drugs, poison gases and impurities in the air. Disease Immunity: Due to his highly efficient immune system, Eli is immune to all Earthly poisons, toxins, venom, viruses, bacteria, diseases, disorders, parasites, allergens, gas attacks, and nerve-toxins of any kind. Those comic attributes of Patriot i was hoping for because I thought he could be a crazy unique skill champ with resistances to poison, acid wash n neurotoxin 😢 Those comic attributes

[@edisonlaw934]

Neurotoxin would be unfair because Archangel wouldn’t be able to counter him.

[@toritreadwell119]

@@edisonlaw934nimrod can’t counter bishop. Having a champ that goes against the grain can be cool

[@edisonlaw934]

@@toritreadwell119yeah like Onslaught basically countering most tech champs as well lol

[@Daddylonglegs93]

None of the other super soldiers are immune or resistant to poison on their own merit (I'm leaving out CW), and not even the gamma mutates are resistant to neurotoxin or acid wash. I don't see any reason for Eli to have these abilities.

[@edisonlaw934]

@@Daddylonglegs93 Poison immune champs are immune to neurotoxin since you need poison plus bleed to convert into neurotoxin

[@13Eagle]

Another well designed kit from you! I guess you got vigilance passive too

[@aaronfromohio8895]

Underrated comment

[@Jordan-mregroodergrind]

I kinda wish arcade had the auto block knockdown ability on offense to knock them back farther in the corner

[@Daddylonglegs93]

1) not an auto-block, just to underline that 2) I don't think it would've fit into his kit all that well with the traps and long specials, honestly 3) the whole point of this not being auto-block is to better differentiate from tech abilities, so I'd be pretty upset if someone put reversal on a tech champion 😂

[@Jordan-mregroodergrind]

@@Daddylonglegs93 it would be cool though! I Love seeing new mechanics to be honest ;) also holding heavy triggers arcades auto block that’s just the closest thing to the reversal ability although arcades only during specials

[@edisonlaw934]

@@Daddylonglegs93 Maybe the reversal could work on a science champ, like if they decide to overhaul OG Cap for the next saga

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Because of the two-way problem (I discussed this during the watch party), I'd hope it only gets used on skill champs in the near future. Science could maybe work in the far future.

[@TheRealMcKyD]

Hey DLL! Love the vid and champ! I would love some more context on what you said in the beginning in regard to your feelings toward this champ. Also I don't know if you answer these type of questions, but I wanna ask why not put his steadfast utility in his base kit? He just doesn't feel as good of a photon counter without the awaken ability, but it also feels at the same time his whole purpose is to be a photo counter.

[@Daddylonglegs93]

I mean there should be a benefit to getting the dupe right at sig 1, so there you go, but you're also underselling him by saying his entire purpose is Photon and nothing else, so I think that's coloring your question pretty significantly. I also could use some more specificity on your first question.

[@TheRealMcKyD]

@@Daddylonglegs93(I wanna preface this real quick by saying 1. thanks for responding and 2. everything I say is out of genuine curiosity and because it's really cool to hear insight from the actual designers of these awesome champs that we get to use on a daily basis. I may phrase things poorly, which I apologize for, but I don't mean to come off like I know better or anything like that. Much respect and love to everyone on the mcoc kabam team) You're totally right, poor choice of words. I don't mean to undersell him. I'm more so mean that it's relatively obvious that a lot of his kit is geared towards dealing with Photon, but then one of the best pieces of utility to counter photon is locked away behind the awaken ability. I agree that every signature ability should have an instant benefit at sig 1 but why not have it to where in his base kit he can gain steadfast against only science champions and then once he's awakened, he can gain steadfast against all classes? Would that be broken? Again, that's a genuine question, I'm not trying to act like I know better and obviously I don't know the limitations and guidelines that were given to you when creating this champ. Speaking of which, I absolutely love this champ. I'm having a blast with him and the reversal mechanic. Your tip on holding block and then heavying has been a game changer for me so again thank you for all the time and effort you put in this champ! In regards to the other thing, in the beginning of the video you said you felt strongly about this character as a whole. I was seeing if you could elaborate on that or if you did end up going on somebody's stream and talking about it.

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Ah I have not really talked about that part yet, but that's definitely more a stream topic. And no, it's a fair question, I'm not offended. I'm not sure it'd be broken, per se, but it is at least messy. Could've maybe been base kit but then the threshold for science comes down? Hindsight is 20/20 on this stuff, and it's the kind of thing that we wouldn't change in a balance update in case people have really chased the dupe. But counterpoint, without the rest of the sig protecting his block prof, would it have even helped that much? Or would it have given you false confidence against her and then you die to a Sp2? 😅 I'm honestly not sure, because we didn't test exactly that, but given everything we did test surrounding what he needed to block her, I think it might actually be better where it is. Not trying to convince you one way or the other, but just some insight into the tradeoffs

[@TheRealMcKyD]

@@Daddylonglegs93 I see where you're coming from, definitely given me an another perspective on all of it. And you're 100% right on the signature ability, his steadfast is at its best when it is working in conjunction with the block proficiency. Thanks again for the awesome conversation! I'm looking forward to your next champ!

[@JohnSmith-ri2ed]

Old comment but I think the main reason reason community sees partiot as a "pure photon counter" is the lack of good science defenders. Realistically the only challenging science defender released in the last... 3(?) Years photon so it's hard to see what else patriot is good against. Hopefully he's a champ more focused on future value than current matchup variance

[@jahmiremurray3584]

Actually if you look at the Relic tutorial in the game it shows you a Captain America and the skill class I think first when they ever showed that it was foreshadow he was going to come in the game we didn't know which model because that model Captain America was a bit different

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Oh is this in response to my comment about there not being a skill cap analog yet? I mean that's still true 😂 whatever was in some old video, no skill-class kit in this mold has ever been developed, which is all I was saying.

[@catmurdock]

I would like one, please

[@teebleezy8466]

Having just pulled him as a 6*, i decided to give this another listen. Would Prodigious Tactician mean he can M-L-L on a Consistent Combo node?

[@Daddylonglegs93]

You know, I don't know that I've tried that, but per the node description it would make sense. Worth a shot!

[@NicJ27]

Hi DLL, the champ design and the new reversal mechanic seem cool A question for the mutant trope to counter debuff shrugs/removals and all those kinds of mechanics: does someone like, say, Apoc prevent the consumption of resolve? Does the reversal still trigger but the resolve debuffs remain? Just curious how that general interaction works As an aside, with another Self-Debuff champ, i anticipate a mutant/champ that can “nullify”/remove debuffs on the opponent - seen mutants that inflict debuffs and punish it, in the same way Mystics can inflict buffs and punish it, but theres no flat opponent debuff removal in the way there is buff removal. Perhaps one for the Cyclops and Beast reworks 😉

[@aaronfromohio8895]

Dust purifies debuffs from the opponent on her light attacks.

[@NicJ27]

@@aaronfromohio8895 no she doesnt, she purifies the debuffs she places on the opponent. She will not purify Kingpins rage, Attumas concussions etc

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Good comment. Couple things to unpack here. First, we're not perfect, but the more recent the champion, the more intentional we are with the wording. Apocalypse specifically reduces *purify* ability accuracy, and consuming something for your own kit is not purifying. I would have used the word specifically if that was the interaction I was going for. Second, you're definitely right that there's space in mutant for something like that! Dust and Toad start to approach it but only for their personal debuffs, which obviously isn't the same. But I wouldn't expect that kind of brand new ability on a rework, not unless it's a ground up thing like Iron Man, which isn't guaranteed to happen again.

[@NicJ27]

@@Daddylonglegs93 makes sense thank you, wasnt my intention to be pedantic about the semantics so apologies if it read that way Would consumption therefore bypass any domino shenanigans seeing as it just does the thing, rather than being something that is interact-able like a purify/shrug/cleanse/any others ive missed

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Correct. When a character consumes X to do Y, Y might fail, but X should be gone in general if things are coded properly. If it were the other way around, we'd say something more like "do Y, then lose X," if that makes sense. And no worries about semantics haha. This is one of those places where semantics actually matter.

[@K750Ric]

I guess im fortunate to pull 7* Patriot (undupe).. have 7* Kushala (20), The Serpent (42).. only 6* Titania (200).. Anyways, would you rank2 Patriot unduped.. or other skill are better.

[@Daddylonglegs93]

You're really going to flex your incredible luck pulling my characters and then ask if I'd rank him? 😂

[@K750Ric]

@@Daddylonglegs93 I don’t mean it that way.. 😂 I’m curious if you would rank2 7* Patriot (undupe).. I guess 6* rank5 sig200 ascended is better as of the moment.

[@Daddylonglegs93]

For his best matchups, yeah the 6* is probably better for now

[@layo9496]

Right when i get to 6.3.6🙏

[@jonf5679]

Don’t like skill champs that void melts

[@Daddylonglegs93]

You're more than welcome to have a preference, but we're not going to shape our design decisions around it. Benefitting from debuffs being on oneself is an interesting design space. It'd be silly to avoid exploring it just because Void exists.

[@jonf5679]

You could add a line like doesn’t take direct damage from science champs. It’s been done before to counter champs like quake/ghost/mags

[@Daddylonglegs93]

No it has not. Not like that. Void is coded a very particular way that doesn't leave things like that open, and countering evade is not at all the same as countering direct damage. That's a very big deal

[@bignickdangerpimp]

Why would you use him against Void unless you absolutely had to? You should know going in that you'll be taking damage that you can't do anything about. Don't take all day and you can minimize the damage, but that's what you get.

[@Olivia-f8l]

How do you anticipate he’ll do on attack in battlegrounds? We’ve had a lot of champs on the slower side this year and I’d love for him to be a great attacker there

[@Daddylonglegs93]

I mean I think the community has just been flat out wrong about how fast some of those champs are or are not (see Prowler), but aside from that, yeah I think he'll work well. Sp1 into Sp2 is pretty efficient and will get through a lot of champs.

[@Olivia-f8l]

@@Daddylonglegs93 I think prowler is fast, but are there any others this year that you think are slept on?

[@edisonlaw934]

@@Olivia-f8l Ironheart, Dust, Spider Punk, etc.

[@waynewayne8419]

@@Daddylonglegs93 definitely not wrong. One of the issues with how devs think champs will perform does not translate to how we(the community) interact with the champs. That’s why they feel slower, even prowler who’s a very good niche attacker is not quite fast but is good regardless

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Prowler is absolutely fast lol. It just takes practice to get him there reliably. It's very important to remember that the community doesn't necessarily figure this stuff out right away. We take months to collect data for a reason.

[@OsFan8]

Got him! Obviously you’re biased but thoughts on saga sigs use Patriot (sig 20), Guardian (120), CapSam (100), Prowler (40) or Shocker (40)? All are r2. All are potentially r3.

[@Daddylonglegs93]

That's a really tough one. I think I would say Patriot, but less because he's mine and more because of the fact that a lot of sigs have an inflection point around sig 60 or so, and so him being at 20 has some of the most to gain. Prowler's curve is weird, so I don't count him, and I've been pretty happy with my sig 40 Shocker

[@OsFan8]

Thanks!

[@layo9496]

Wish he had persistent charges

[@edisonlaw934]

I don’t think he’ll need those, but we will see

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Why? Persistent charges are a very specific design choice that makes balancing much more difficult, and I don't see why it would be any more "necessary" with this kit than starting with power would be for everyone else haha.

[@ForgottenMCOC]

Please tell kabam to give me a dupe 7* on early release thank you

[@Wolframite.]

Yay

[@tripleu6]

DLL, as usual I enjoy the complexity built into this champion. You said you can block a hit and charge heavy, but it’s also actually possible to do that without blocking a single hit! kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWivlWquZdhgmMksi=0FL4k04TadK68xPs

[@Daddylonglegs93]

Thanks! I'm aware of that, and a bunch of other ways to reliably make this work, but the point of that comment was to share with people the simplest and most reliable way to access the mechanic, not to cover all the little efficiencies you can squeeze out of it.

[@tripleu6]

@@Daddylonglegs93 ahhh. That’s fair.

[@giantwalrus2828]

Looks like another great champion. My only complaint is every time i finally get all of your children, you release a new one(this is a joke)... Let the chase begin again😂