Xbox's Plan For Game Pass Growth Makes No Sense

Microsoft is increasingly reliant on Game Pass to further its Xbox goals, but it is running into a subscription ceiling with close to zero coherent ways to expand beyond that.
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[@GeremyG]

> encourages xbox players to not buy 1st party xbox games due to gamepass > they don’t buy 1st party games > closes studios ????

[@Punkertoon]

On a flat rate of revenue where customer growth has plateaued and licensing fees go up as the library expands.

[@Mmachine88]

You're arguing gamepass being the cause, except the big known studios closing currently are the two that have done terrible performance. Redfall was a disaster, and Hi-Fi Rush got very little plays with majority of players not bouncing off the game within a couple of hours. Those are just not good examples of measuring how well the service is doing. Just isn't. Hi-Fi Rush went over to PlayStation and still hasn't done any meaningful numbers.

[@Punkertoon]

@@Mmachine88 it isn’t the “The” cause. It’s “A” cause. But you could argue it is the most important one because it takes away sales. Why do you think Phil said about Starfield that it has over 12 million players about 6 months ago? Because the sales number is definitely not as impressive. Which was estimated around 2.5 million at that time. So when total sales is less than 25% of the player base, do you not think Gamepass is a significant driver of the current issues within XBox?

[@Mmachine88]

@Punkertoon the sales were estimated to have been much more than 2.5million on Starfield. And I have no clue whether GP is going to conriue to be feasible. My overall point is that GP was not the thing that caused these studios to shutter. They just weren't

[@gavo7911]

@@Mmachine88Hi-Fi Rush probably would have generated a lot more revenue if it wasn’t shadowdropped with no prior announcement and wasn’t available day one on the streaming service most people already have.

[@kmanalpha453]

You know what you call unlimited growth in a closed system? Cancer. You call it cancer

[@Hellfox777]

Or you can call it what it actually is. A growth model that Sony can not do because they didn't invest in it.

[@S6Ryujin]

@@Hellfox777apparently neither can Microsoft since they’re porting their games over to other platforms and going non exclusive, nintendo is king

[@danrose9726]

Well said

[@martyden9006]

​@@Hellfox777MS invested in it yet failed spectacularly as well.

[@sergeesteves]

But Xbox it's not a closed system (pc, mobile cloud, a little on other consoles) much more open than playstation which fits your definition.

[@SojiRo23]

People get so defensive when it’s pointed out that Microsoft has lost millions of game pass subscribers, and they’re not meeting their goal for 100m by 2030. They’ve hit their wall.

[@KnowThatIDontKnowYou]

They probably have to market it more to casual audiences. I have cousins who have PCs that don't know what Gamepass is, they keep asking me on why I have so many games when coming over for events.

[@paul_tassi]

lol 100 million cmon

[@rctemp34]

Well if you were to wear money is the sign of success, which goes to people's heads turning what were normal people into complete worthless human beings

[@Mmachine88]

I don't think they were ever going to hit that 100million anytime soon...without some kinda free version with heavy ads, tied to a cell phone plan deal, and a free controller to connect to your phone or tablet to play through the cloud lol. Realistically if Xbox were to have an insane couple of years and gained major traction, the highest I see it hitting, anytime soon is 50....MAYBE 60 million.

[@Panda0nxtc]

Where the hell did you get that number from ?

[@joker69ification]

You also make a good point about how abstract is the concept of success on a Game Pass game. I mean, if 3 million game pass subscribers play Hellblade 2 on Game Pass, can we consider this a success even if the number of subscriptions stay the same?

[@jankmedia1985]

Exactly. It's all meaningless. If subscriptions aren't increasing, there's no meaningful way to gauge how financially successful a game is when it releases on Gamepass. The service is designed to cannibalize software sales.

[@KoldKiller2016]

Remember when Sony said Game Pass wasn't sustainable? I remember.

[@chrisreynolds586]

They were right. Which is why they're dismantling jim ryan's plans, because that wasnt sustainable either. Small devs are carrying this generation and the platform holders are struggling to make sense of it for some reason.

[@thejsixm2357]

Obligatory "Pepperidge Farm Remembers"!

[@tio8194]

@@chrisreynolds586 Jim Ryan was the one who said that and the pivot away from live service and subscriptions happened under his leadership before he retired, tf you yappin about

[@fracturedsolace145]

Remember how Sony lost 8 billion in shares last year? I remember.

[@FabuBrik]

Not sustainable for consoles. Which is why Microsoft is all but abandoning console players for the mobile market.

[@EmperorOfMan]

Double Fine is a dead studio walking

[@baneintherain]

So is Ninja Theory.

[@1Hour1Decision1H1D]

Honestly was surprised they weren't given the boot already, wonder if they're announcing something in June?

[@StillWeRide]

Double Fine sucks anyway

[@danieleberly9629]

Double Fine was on life support before Microsoft bought them. If they go down now they should just consider themselves lucky to have had jobs for years longer than they would have otherwise

[@ninochaosdrache3189]

​@@baneintherain Obsidian most likely as well

[@robtibbetts890]

I play Destiny 2. There’s no time in a human life to play anything else. Why would I pay for GamePass?

[@Osiris02]

Exactly, I pay 140 a year to subscribe to Destiny 2 and have little time outside of work for anything else.

[@RangerZero45]

I am mostly on Overwatch 2 and play Nintendo exclusives when I am tired of my gaming chair

[@abra4662]

I pay* Destiny 2. There’s no time/money in a human life to pay anything else. fify

[@underscore_5450]

I can barely afford rent and groceries, let alone another subscription service. For me, nothing on gamepass seems worth it to me. I'd rather pay a little more and just get the game I want and have it than pay even more over time for a bunch of games I don't have time to play. There's a reason why the most played games right now are all old titles. New games are too expensive and a subscription isn't the cool alternative Xbox thinks it is.

[@TecraX2]

For me at least, COD Day-1 on Game Pass means I'll stay subscribed to Game Pass for a very long time...

[@touhid69]

I think I am other way around , can't afford to buy new games as these are very expensive. Better to have gamepass where I can try and play a lot of games.

[@fracturedsolace145]

Yeah gamepass is a win for me.

[@zztzgza]

Obsidian is gonna get shut down after Avowed releases.

[@ragingmonk6080]

No, it is safe.

[@crsmntmr392]

@@ragingmonk6080 you think?

[@ragingmonk6080]

@@crsmntmr392 "you think?" Yes, they have Avowed launching this year. Outer Worlds II is up next. But Microsoft wants a Fallout Game sooner than later and BGS is working on TES 6. Who made Fallout New Vegas? lol

[@SenorRaulito]

I hope not, I need the to either remaster New Vegas or release another Fallout game.

[@rjproduction486]

Nah! Ninja Theory the developers of Hellblade 2 will be next in the chopping block! Just imagine, releasing a "movie game" in a console where its player base hate this type's of games!!

[@joker69ification]

Honestly after being with GamePass since launch I am starting to question if Game Pass really is such a great deal for most people. I am someone who plays around 8 to 10 hours per week and I believe that's the case for most gamers nowadays. At the end of the month I usually played 1, maybe 2 games and I play stuff that are not on Game Pass too. For example, I spent more than 2 months playing only Like a Dragon Infinite Wealth (a game that is not on Game Pass), I didn't play a single Game Pass game during this period, so my subscription was a waste of money. Gaming subscription services are not for everyone. It's different from Netflix, where you can watch a different movie or tv show everyday. I know a lot of people who only plays Fifa or Call of Duty, Game Pass will never work for this type of gamer...

[@sjneow]

coming from a long time PS Plus subscriber, it make more sense back in the PS3 days, where most games are shorter. So you ends up playing more variety of games. But in the PS4 era, the games got longer and life dictates that I have less time to play them, I also unsubscribed in 2022.

[@HypaXLink]

that will work when call of duty becomes a gamepass launch title, or was even exclusive to gamepass....Fifa is also a part of gamepass via EA pass lol

[@ynotfazio]

I don’t see it as a waste of money if I don’t play a game pass game for 2 months. As long as I play more than 2 $70 titles on gamepass in a whole year than I’m good and have spent less on my subscription than if I bought those two titles. I end up playing much more than 3 gp titles in a year tho and many of them are $70 titles. I get to try stuff I’d never buy to try too. You don’t have to pay full price for games pass ultimate either. You shouldn’t be paying monthly-that’s silly. Buy a year or more to save. Use Microsoft rewards points to buy core and buy core prepaid cards online. Stack up months and then buy one month of ultimate and it all converts. I’ve had game pass since its inception and I’ve paid practically nothing for years of it.

[@OnlineTuba]

​@@ynotfazioIsn't this the reason Xbox is in this situation, it's not sustainable. Find a cheap way to get gamepass the service will suffer, studios will suffer and so will gamers.

[@joker69ification]

@@HypaXLink I don't think so. FIFA arrives on Gamepass usually 7 to 8 months after launch (it's already mid-May and EA Sports FC 24 isn't there yet). And even in the case of Call of Duty arriving on GamePass on day 1, for those who only play this game, is it worth paying a monthly subscription? You could simply buy the game and play for a year until the next one is released.

[@RuTube981]

The problem is Xbox Gamepass is exclusive to Xbox. But Phil said they're not in the business of out-consoling Sony, basically saying they don't care about console sales So Growth has stopped. So you need to now sell more consoles. How do you do that? By putting great exclusive games on the platform. But Phil said that making great games won't change their fortune. So they don't believe in that either. So gamepass will stall the xbox brand and eventually kill it. Combination of Gamepass and the ABK deal.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Game Pass was what kept the brand relevant past the fiasco that was the Xboner, so if Game Pass kills what would have died without it keeping it alive, it was going to die anyway.

[@shakurbutler2638]

I disagree. Study where the market is going subscription is the future. I think long term Xbox isn't going anywhere.

[@RuTube981]

@@shakurbutler2638 right and everywhere that subscriptions are, the money can be made elsewhere. Movies can be licensed to airlines and theater releases, music is licensed everywhere, but games can't do anything like that. You need to buy games in order to keep the doors open. The money going to subscription services don't go to the developer.

[@yofolkdem1256]

​@RuTube981 that's just not true, GP pays an upfront sum that covers development costs to the studios for their games to be on the service, then split the MTXs and the game sales made through the service is shared with the devs also. So what are you talking about?

[@WunderbredSyndicate]

I picked the wrong time to turn 32 and get back into Halo 😢 Remeber Halo? 2004 was nuts 😢

[@endar2401]

I agree. I'm not interested in a game subscription service.

[@RangerZero45]

Yeah, after the month ends you are like I lost 18 bucks and have nothing to show for it… but 18 bucks for a month of entertainment is worth it. I don’t pay because I don’t like subscription either.

[@fracturedsolace145]

​@RangerZero45 I love gamepass. Plenty of games to play.

[@ALaz502]

Imagine playing Destiny in 2024. 🤣

[@cyberpunk97]

Microsoft is looking for a business solution to an artistic problem. It will be what drives them out of the game development business

[@Mango_Juice56]

pretty upsetting they close these studios but not 343 who time and time again have failed to deliver Halo

[@marvelprince]

Can’t speak for how it was at launch but right now Halo is excellent

[@moviesteels7422]

Game pass is 90% shovelware and games I could buy for $9.99 at GameStop, 8% are exclusives that are either mid or bad 2% are good exclusives

[@tropicata]

I always cringed when regular consumers cheered and celebrated any time MS announced a studio acquisition. People were unironically making "wishlists" about who MS should buy up next. I thought I was going insane whenever I read those kinds of posts. And this is exactly what I feared. This is what happens when we root for consolidation. It fucking sucks

[@aries4378]

You always cringed because you're an informed consumer who remembers Microsoft's track record with studios. Too bad there's so many people that aren't informed consumer.

[@autobotstarscream765]

I wished for Microsoft to buy ABK because I'd rather see Activision and Blizzard dead than run by Bobby Kotick, and I'd rather never have Diablo V than have a bad one.

[@jgould30]

You think those studios were going to remain, especially with their existing staffing? Nonsense. They were suffering which isnwhy they sold. Microsoft just made the logical decision in this economy to let go of all the staff they don't want to retain, moving the talent they want into other projects, and retaining all the IP of those studios. Thiw all nakes logical sense.

[@autobotstarscream765]

@jgould30 And then the talent they want quit and the IPs languish. The pandemic is over and gaming is dying.

[@altec003]

Xbox has been selling their car for gas money basically

[@StraitShot]

The main problem with GP on PC, is that the Xbox App is pure shit. And the Games, that are on GP, are not equivalent to their steam counter parts. IE they miss DX12 features usually(DLSS, XESS, FSR etc.). Good luck trying to mod Starfield with the GP version! idk why this is not discussed, the reason GP fails is not because Steam is so good.... But because GP is so so bad....

[@chadwolf3840]

It’s shit and it feels like bloatware every time you boot up a game. You need to give windows like 10 permissions each time with each game. They have like kernel access DRM. It’s the worst online gaming platform.

[@KingThrillgore]

It sure makes no sense WHEN THEY CLOSE THE STUDIOS MAKING THE GAMES

[@echosartplanet2210]

Was waiting for your video Paul, always love your feedback. Keep up the good work man.

[@postmortem1547]

Game Pass had the numbers during Covid but that no one is sitting at home those numbers have dropped. Who ever at Microsoft studios thought those numbers would continue should right now be collecting UI.

[@TecraX2]

Besides Covid, Microsoft has also heavily subsidized Game Pass through various promotions, of which the most "insane" was being able to convert up to 36 months of Live Gold (approx. $50/year) into Game Pass Ultimate, meaning you pay less than $5/month for 3 years!

[@bellystraw]

I bought an Xbox and now I kinda regret it. I mean, they're screwing over their employees and playerbase. I can't imagine working for a company where even if I do everything right I still get the boot. It's ridiculous!

[@RH1812]

Sadly, in a lot of industries, you can turn up every day, work hard, and still get let go. It’s not just the gaming industry.

[@RangerZero45]

Sell it for a deck or Switch Nintendo exclusives are many

[@rokmare]

I'm a person who prefer to buy the games I play so thru patience and discounts my gaming library is better than what gamepass has to offer and most of what I want to play on there I already own

[@1Hour1Decision1H1D]

That's probably true and definitely smart not to play full price on games ! I'm definitely of the mind that I like to try something before I buy if I can which is what Game Pass allows me to do.

[@nathandrake9737]

Yep, I had game pass for 3 years. Luckily didn't pay a dime for it because of rewards points, and also saved a lot of those points to create my library. Now besides PS Exclusives, I have pretty much all the games I need.

[@rokmare]

@@nathandrake9737 That's probably why Microsoft changed the reward system game pass is required now to earn any points now I mosty save my points for 70 dollar releases instead of game pass

[@ninochaosdrache3189]

Same

[@sebastianocampo71997]

@@1Hour1Decision1H1Drefund is an option on steam

[@Alan-ei3qz]

I don't even turn on my Xbox anymore.

[@xNSHD]

16 years with xbox and im in the same boat. its extremely sad to see it go this way.

[@underscore_5450]

I've been playing pc for years and decided to dig out my old Xbone to play some Destiny 1 and instantly turned off my console when they told me I needed gamepass to do a fucking strike. Why would anyone play a console if you can get a PC cheaper?

[@endar2401]

@@underscore_5450 That's more so on Bungie and Activision. They set the requirement to have Xbox Live Gold.

[@chadwolf3840]

Same…every time i boot up xbox, there’s some left wing messaging and a bunch of fruity indy games that no one plays nor asked for. It’s not a real console, which is sad bec the 360 and xbox one were both awesome consoles with great exclusives.

[@RangerZero45]

Times change, Don’t feel bad for drifting away from Microsoft

[@oftenspanx]

I opperate under the assumption that what Microsoft intends to do, is gamepass exclusives, ala epic's strategy. They want gamepass to be like netflix, eventually including producing exclusive to their platform games. Gamepass in theory, was somerhing I was kinda excited for from a strictly financial standpoint. In concept that such amazing value for someone like me, and I liked the idea of xbox exclusives being available day one. Then they pack it full of games I already own, games I have no interest in, or games I mean to ourchase outright...and there has been virtually zero exclusives, certainly nothing that has interested me. I'm perpetually broke, the days of having every console are far gone, and I regret more and more that I got a series x instead of a ps5 🙃

[@andriodman1]

Unfortunately there's no winning this gen. PS5 has had no real exclusives either, it's better than Xbox is but it's still really weak. Hope there's some light at the end of the tunnel soon ( meaning great games in large numbers!)

[@BillNyeGuy]

Like A Dragon Gaiden The Man Who Erases His Name and Persona 3 Reload were also new major day 1 releases. But yeah not a ton of new big releases.

[@jakkudemoff3043]

Tassi keepin it real -- honestly this was all obvious since the concept emerged of Gamepass it just made absolutely no financial sense - just like anyone could see letting a giant entity absorb another giant entity was terrible for the industry and consumers

[@SimonBold16]

Gamepass is failing because the biggest releases failed...looking at you Halo infinite and Starfield...

[@mrmack3176]

True but they did release dead island 2 and lords of the fallen I think they need hall and gears 6 and fable to save them again

[@AtterBelladona]

Maybe doubling the price of game pass would be the only fix. I know that sounds rough but then games would actually make profit and triple A titles would be willing to be on game pass all while it still saves you a ton of money. But I could be wrong a doubling it wouldn’t help profits.

[@qwertyisaboss]

Microsoft bought so many studios, only to shut them down… they bought COD to put it on gamepass and now it might not even be on gamepass… they’ve released 1 great game in the last few years and they shut it down in Hi Fi Rush… wtf is Phil doing??? We’re probably 7 years away from the next elder scrolls and more for fallout and no one wants an xbox anymore. It’s looking bleak

[@xNSHD]

fallout is being rushed out the door, look at the statement released by them when they shut the studios down. its very clear that was done to get more people on to bigger IP like fallout to get that out the door quicker. that isn't a good thing mind you since it just means we will more than likely get a half baked fallout game of some sort probably a spin off like vegas 2 within the next 4 years by a different studio while bethesda make ESO then move on to fallout 5.

[@FlashesSoccer011]

The elder scrolls franchise is going to be the biggest casualty of all of this. It might as well just be canceled at this point.

[@nene71286]

Is not Phil, this comes from Satya Nadela and Amy Hood.

[@ninochaosdrache3189]

​@nene71286 Of course its Phil. It was his leadership that caused this situation in the first place

[@nene71286]

@@ninochaosdrache3189 what is the source. Remember is no longer Xbox, is Microsoft Gaming. They've spent 100 billion on their Gaming platform acquiring all of those studios. Don't you think They would have like to have something back from that cash flow injection? Of course Phil is the head of Xbox, but if you think, Satya Nadela and Amy Hood oversees everything including Xbox now called Microsoft Gaming.

[@TomLarsen74]

This is the core issue with GamePass and part of the reason why Xbox and studios are in the shape they are in: If Xbox puts a game on GamePass then "the studio underperformed". If Xbox doesn't put a game on GamePass then the game may or may not do well but subscriptions go down. Imagine the discussions that have been going on for months with Acti-Blizz about CoD. If Xbox puts the next CoD GamePass "day 0" with "other platforms" then they have to lean on those "other platforms" for additional revenue. This will juice GP numbers but cut into the amount of money they get from PS5 and (??) Steam. If Xbox doesn't put CoD on GamePass "day 0", this will probably help bring in money to Acti-Bliz + Xbox but sacrifice GamePass numbers. Especially with all of the recent news and turmoil, many will simply unsubscribe because "the value isn't there".

[@Cyno7]

Great analysis.

[@jacoblesperance2115]

On a happier note. Play Animal Well. Its fantastic

[@YuasBirds]

At this point I almost feel like Selling my series X, my PC is not up to snuff right now but I'm currently working on getting new parts together and I feel like it would be smarter to just sell it and put that money towards a better GPU or something. Honestly I planned in keeping it just Incase I wanted I play games on my TV and/or to watch movies, but at this point I feel like I might as well sell it and get a Blu ray and call it good lol

[@AJJJ-co2vd]

Overhead $ of running a cloud server based on demand must be cheaper the dev console market to consumer and shipping to retailer

[@EastyyBlogspot]

For the amount of developer's they own...or did own and the amount of games released is really poor, embracer had a similar issue ...they have the developer's but where are the games ?

[@zztzgza]

They bought the developers hoping to get a short-term profit bump without realizing that games are a long-term investment strategy and that games can just fail, they're not guaranteed to make money.

[@SpottedHares]

They bought the developers on credit(a loan) expecting the Saudi to make an investment to cover those loans and operating cost till they got those games. The Saudi pulled out at 11:59 am.

[@OtakuBenny2210]

Next years source trust me bro

[@ninochaosdrache3189]

​@@SpottedHares That's Embracer, not Microsoft

[@EliteBlackSash]

It’s just wild to see things unfold. Because there was strong dismissal of anyone who lamented either GamePass, or Microsoft buying up studios and publishers before even utilizing the ones they already have. Now we see that their concerns were absolutely not unfounded. Both have pretty much turned out as they predicted. The sad part of it all… is all of the beloved IP that are in limbo now. Microsoft bought out some Legendary IP…

[@chadwolf3840]

Everything woke turns to shit and microsoft turned every franchise it had woke.

[@Drstrange3000]

Still kind of pisses me off. Especially seeing the same media who were cheering for it now reporting how awful it is. You could not say anything critical about Xbox or GamePass without someone at your throat. I think some things could have been avoided if people didn't just blindly follow the PR hype.

[@rajah316]

I got a deal for gamepass ultimate for a year was only 100 when it's over I might not renew it.

[@thegreenpipe6254]

Tassi is spot-on. Xbox has been training their customers AND potential customers that they don't need to buy retail games or even Xbox consoles because of GP. Now, with the (stupid) purchase of ABK, the business model is completely exposed as both unsustainable and broken. MS put all their eggs in this GP basket and now it's out of options. Xbox fundamentally does NOT understand the gaming market, and it unfortunately seems their time to die has come.

[@darianhendrickson7665]

You mean Netflix cranks out garbage and cancels good stuff constantly

[@BoknoyBuhisan]

whole other level than cranks out garbage and shuts down entire studios. shows can be revived anytime, studios not so much.

[@RaulGonzalez-ip4tk]

Only a few types of games that should be on game pass are timed exclusives, older games, and timed indie/3rd party games that need additional players. Then, after the time is up, offer a discount on the game and notify the user.

[@mediocregamer2484]

Everything just keeps trying to grow exponentially. Its inpossible to do that. If that's the goal, youre destined to fail. If a conpany has the same profits as last year or the year before, its not seen as stabilizing or saturated, it feels like its seen as failing so they start cutting things. It sucks

[@leakyabstraction]

And all this in a day and age where more and more people are getting sick and tired of subscriptions, and are less and less likely to be duped into believing that it's better for them than owning products. It was all fun while you had to pay one or maybe two subscriptions per month, especially while the companies were operating on losses to build out a client base, but once these corporations en masse started to prey on people and lure them in, the consumer experience got irreparably ruined. Microsoft is again - like so often - very late to the party.

[@brianruss5303]

I think the thing about cloud gaming to remember is that there are a lot of markets where consoles are not a real option (Africa, Latin America, India) and streaming provides a huge opportunity in those spaces where there is an appetite for those titles. Just like Netflix, the future is getting your IP globally, and I think that Microsoft had anticipated internet speeds getting better faster, but COVID through a wrench in that plan

[@jacoblesperance2115]

If they go back on gamepass now.... Its literally over for them.

[@ironiclee9751]

I thought about trying gamepass on PC but it's not even available in my region, granted my region is small and the other regions excluded aren't very big either but it's definitely not a global service and I'm not about to buy full priced xbox games on Steam. If I were them I'd try to get some kind of version of gamepass on Steam, even if it's not all third party games it should at least mirror the EA play subscription which would be limited to the games that the publisher owns.

[@gejamugamlatsoomanam7716]

Xbox put all their eggs in the starfield basket, but the eggs clipped through the basket

[@flannelsykes0]

Is baby Yoda meant to be sneakily looking in?

[@AdmiralBison]

The Xbox is a sinking ship. The quicker more people see the writing on the wall, Microsoft finally admits wanting to go third party and Xbox wishfully, though unlikely, breaks away from Microsoft to be its own 100% independent separate company the better.

[@snakesnoteyes]

XBOX and Microsoft is increasingly feeling like Hasbro and D&D

[@TyGreenGoblin]

No one wants to stream retro games. Old games and crt's introduced little input lag. It would be a completely different experience.

[@oBlackIceo]

I truly thought they’d go all in on becoming a publisher with all the newly bought studios. Idk how they fumble the bag this way.

[@TascoSweeney]

Most countries in the world are not internet ready for reliable cloud gaming to fully take off.

[@Grassdia]

I mean I feel like subscription services don’t really work the bigger they are like if you subscribe to an MMO that makes sense but when you have to produce A GAME that’s a whole other story same with movies.

[@pointy8pointy]

I don't see CoD being the gamepass trump card they need due to warzone being free already. Especially seeing how shitty the non-warzone side of call of duty has gotten

[@aeolussvichi7680]

I find it shocking and irritating that just now people are realizing the gamepss problem. This was obvious from the start!!

[@xNSHD]

100% right paul ive said it for years. the market that microsoft is trying to capture in mobile players, meaning phones, tablets etc. these types of people couldn't care less about what i called "proper games" and not "tappy tappy mobile games" its a completely different subset of people who are just not into the types of games traditional gamers on PC and console play. so their model for how to expand gamepass numbers beyond the consoles is completely flawed, mobile gamers don't care about games, they dont play games they just download anything on the app store thats free and have a little go on them for 10 minutes when bored on break or in work. they aren't gamers and you will never capture that market with proper games. their best play would of absolutely been to make call of duty full on exclusive to xbox on console and put it on game pass. call of duty has that big of a pull that i can guarantee that alot of people would buy an xbox even just a series s for call of duty. the same applies to fifa, these games are just that big and there are a very large group of people who only play call of duty and fifa every year. if that game is only on one console it doesn't matter if they had the other console, they would have switched just for call of duty. the casual market as i call it, meaning players who play only one or two games a year and they are the most mainstream games (COD, FIFA, Fortnite ETC) would just go where they can get those games they don't care what box they have as long as they can play those games.

[@TheEffectOfMass]

With the exception of nintendo, console sales are down. Well maybe the right words are "selling less than expected." I don't know if it's that consoles are too expensive, or if the market in PC and Mobile are just getting bigger?

[@ShadowDreamer100]

13:17 I wonder if top Microsoft executives and shareholders are the ones fighting back at including CoD in Gamepass. It seemed from Spencer from the beginning the plan was to have every game from acquired companies to be on Gamepass.

[@slashingkatie7872]

I think MS thought Gamepass would take off and become a standard instead of buying games and like Uber or Netflix, once they were a standard they were probably going to add tiers or something but that didn’t happen.

[@Shimmed]

Phil is the GOAT! I can’t wait to play “The Master Chief Collection” on my PlayStation console!

[@gameskyjumper1721]

I only sign up for Game Pass one month if there is something I want to play, just like how I did Netflix. I played The Men who Erased His name. Lies of P. Hades.

[@derekgella1722]

Could the XSX be their last console?

[@ShadowDreamer100]

11:00 And then here come along AI driven development, somethin EA just publicly said they want to do to speed up dev time while increasing the size of the experience (ie number of hours to beat) and 'quality' (a word doing the max amount of heavy lifting there). If EA is saying this as a relatively smaller game dev company/publisher, what does this mean for studios owned by Microsoft, owners of Azure and other cloud/AI technology?

[@TecraX2]

Low Game Pass subscriber numbers and console sales are only real big issues if games are exclusive to Game Pass and the Xbox platform. As long as Microsoft releases their games on other platforms, they make money either way (but obviously more if players switches to Xbox where Microsoft get 100% revenues). Given Xbox's relative small market share, combined with how strongly they have promoted the Game Pass model; IMO their best bet would be to not focus on creating games that are exclusive to the Xbox platform, and instead make Day-1 access on Game Pass their "Xbox Exclusivity"... For example, as a Game Pass subscriber I didn't see any value in the fact that players on PlayStation couldn't BUY Starfield!

[@ShootEvrythg]

Sarah Bond talked about how one of the most important parts of the Activision acquisition was the mobile gaming element (Candy Crush, etc). The plan for Game Pass is to untether it from the console and fold it in to this Microsoft Store service they want to launch for mobile. This is where Sarah Bond thinks they can tap into "2 billion" gamers. That's how it 'makes sense.' Phil Spencer is always talking about "game anywhere," which is why you are seeing them bring games to other consoles. Now wait until they try something like Sony and say that to play Sea of Thieves on Playstaion, you need a Microsoft account.

[@simon0162]

I mean if a new game comes out, I go out and find the many free trials for game pass out there, beat it in a week, and saved myself $70. And I don't even do that often I'm sure there are plenty of people doing that or choosing to save $55 by just getting a month of game pass. It's great for consumers but man I bet it's a money sink for everyone else running it. I can't think of any way to make it as profitable as they would want it to be.

[@Scouserboots]

MS will not only increase gamepass prices but will more than likely alter day one experience, at extra cost. Similar to other subscriptions packages and pre orders, pay more for day one release titles but with early release, three day early access. Then, for gamepass as is right now, that day one release will come a month after release on the new premium gamepass. Possibly MS may even add advertisements on gamepass as is right now. Imagine starting up a game and have “this game is brought to you by Mountain Dew”, a 20 second add before game actually starts. Amazon do it on smart TV,s with adds rolling immediately.

[@Manic.miner2077]

I don't see how subscriptions in general are sustainable for the consumer in the long term. If the company can't grow in customer base it will increase its prices. people are already struggling with consuming the content they want to with how fractured the entertainment industry is, making it more and more expensive to have to subscribe to so many different services on top of all the other monthly bills that are also rising.

[@Christian-js9fy]

I feel that game pass hurts the whole industry I love game pass for all the basically free games I can play at any time, but it makes me worry about multiple other things for devs. I don't think game pass games sell. I don't think Outriders sold, I don't think Hi-Fi Rush sold (hence the studio closing), I don't think P3 Reload sold, I don't think Starfield sold (on console). On the other side of that coin, I think that games which are not on game pass are also not selling, because I think substantially less gamers want to pay up to 70 dollars for a game when it might eventually end up on game pass. All in all, I think that game pass has caused games of all kind to sell less, it has spawned other similar subscriptions like that on Playstation, or even on the Google Play Store, Netflix. With games selling less, studios are making less, likely factoring into studio closure and lay-offs, and other games (due to selling less) are going to be more dependent on MTX to survive. Whole thing seems bad for everyone, players included

[@derricklee4534]

It’s pretty much communism.

[@marconihimself]

I dont know what they are thinking. These decisions should have been made internally during the negotiation / due dilligence stage. However, if phil spencer's macro strategy is anything to go by, I would personally double down on the gamepass promise of having all ms titles day one on the service, and this is because they are already last place by far in the console race. Sony and arguably nintendo will deliver on the CoD royalty checks while you simultaneously boost subscriptions on xbox and pc and entice conversion to your platform / ecossystem until gamepass is stronger in revenue than the royalty checks from the competing platforms. Im no fan of gamepass or this direction for the industry, but if I was hired to execute this strategy thats how I would lay out the steps.

[@michaelmonstar4276]

Even though I was a big "recommender" (not a user, still am not, never was) of Game Pass back when it was relatively new, because it IS good value, particularly for people who are newer to gaming or those who just don't have enough to spend on individual games, I started realizing soon enough that this whole "play on subscription" probably wasn't a good thing for studios, nor the publishers or Xbox actually, due to it being this "all you can play" type of deal and no individual sales. Of course the tactic is to gain and keep subscribers, which works and has worked for companies like Netflix (which is basically to blame for this phenomenon), but indeed it plateaus at some point and it might not be enough to sustain a company or at least all studios/projects they're in charge of. - That's not to say all studios can be supported individually either, cause there's only so much attention the collective consumer can hand out and also purchase from. But still, taking away the opportunity to sell the game first and just dumping it on a subscription-service like a kind of "free/open rental"... it just seems to devalue a product and it's not the way to support the product and its creators. - Clearly, Microsoft found this to be the case with Tango and just killed off the entire studio like it's worthless. - Maybe if they had done a LITTLE more marketing beyond the announcement of its imminent release, plus done some kind of special release, it would've created a benefit for them business-wise. - But they didn't bother, almost like it was intentionally sabotaging them to create an excuse to close them. It's just so weird. - If 'Hi-Fi Rush' were under a company like Devolver or Annapurna or what have you, it would probably have gone bigger than it went under Xbox, ironically. - Cause they care, they HAVE to care about their products selling, cause they DON'T HAVE a subscription-service they can dump titles onto. But Microsoft/Xbox was just like "Ah, whatever. Here's this little double-A game you can play for "free" on Game Pass.", like they're throwing everyone a bone. - I think even Sony/PlayStation would've had more care than that. - I think even EA would've done a better job of it and they're looking quite generous right about now, the funk soul brother.

[@amarkharidia9432]

Game pass is just a more expensive Netflix, but for video games. Happy trails.

[@korylester9769]

I think what is also slept on is that 2nd tier Xbox has basically no space whatsoever but it’s also likely their biggest seller because of the price point. You cannot fit more than like 3 max AAA games and less depending on how big it is. This means if I already have game pass, the primary currency here is my time and having a small space will make you more discretionary. Redfall is obviously ass but they couldn’t even get ppl to play it largely because so many players would have to delete something they actually do like to take a chance. The entire system is cannibalistic

[@jeremylobaugh2416]

I think that Xbox/Microsoft expected to own Nintendo before the Series X/S launch. I believe they thought the Switch would fail, Nintendo would be cheap, and all their problems would be solved. Their lack of planning for all the studios they have bought makes more sense if they were all 2nd and 3rd choices.

[@Hellfox777]

Just keep this same energy when Sony has to do THIS SAME THING. Keep that same energy.

[@geejaybee]

Game Pass for the average player, especially one who has been on XB for years, represents diminishing returns. After a couple of years you've literally played anything and everything you wanted to, and new games, good enough that you would actually buy, are few and far between.

[@sykosocial9]

I’m glad I’m addicted to destiny and don’t play other games

[@quentinb734]

damn maybe that is one benefit 😂

[@Kalolui94]

and they also lose clients with game pass as it can be shared

[@ShadowDreamer100]

12:00 The only thing I can see working is if they completely double down and require game pass for every single game in their marketplace. And why is it a big reach, every digital game isn't ownership, it's a license to play the client. I can't see Microsoft doing this though, I'm sure most 3rd party publishers would pull out immediately.

[@ben-64]

Put my classic wow sub on it and I'm a game pass sub til it's gone.

[@AJJJ-co2vd]

Exactly how much money do I have to spend on gaming for msft to be happy.

[@viktormustapic]

Totally agree, the game pass model doesn’t mesh with how games are made nor how they are consumed.

[@Spartan_83]

I've had GP since 2018 and it's been well worth it for me. I play on both PC and SX but mostly PC.

[@synth_pulse3098]

i use gamepass on PC but i mainly use it as a demo service to buy games on steam lol

[@bocrux]

I think there may be a market for cloud gaming in those 177 countries where consoles are out of reach.

[@Luke973T]

People called jim ryan anti consumer because of his game pass comments but its no way in hell sony could sustain something like that. I tried GP for a bit but once i finished the few games that i was interested in...it was pointless. The games that i want...i buy anyway. Plus id rather just play all of my games on steam.

[@abra4662]

In north america maybe not make sense, but, oh boy, if you look in places like south america you will have a big surprise

[@BlackCat-tc2tv]

As long as the people that game companies are trying to please are shareholders they will fail. Time and time again a successful company has been driven into bankruptcy by shareholders taking that companies product (which caused the company to be acquired by the shareholders in the first place)and trying to squeeze more loot out of them instead of being satisfied with that company producing regular profits over time with a loyal client base. Short sighted, short term focused, and a distain for gradual but reliable growth through quality will kill so much talent in this business.

[@wazakashi]

Yeah, exactly. People are very easily manipulated creatures. You make 2 good games over 10 years and people already have nostalgia. Then you just cash out on people's expectations and get rich quick. Rinse and repeat. Why would they stop doing it?? With the take 2 CEO signing on til 2029 and whoever is getting a microtransaction bonus clause in their contract this is only going to get worse til the well is dry. Customers need to be quick and informed these days and most aren't.

[@antonyjiovanazzo5411]

I subscribe off and on nowadays. The Library is usually always the same. They should throw a ton of 360 and original xbox games. That would get me to resubscribe for a bit at least.

[@tomfromtoonami3269]

What avg ps5 owner who only plays COD and like a madden, fifa, etc, is gonna go out buy a series S and a 17 well, probably more monthly sub, JUST FOR COD? Like anyone who thinks gonna move GP or console sales, need to take the green tinted sunglasses off.

[@Sweatopod98]

Hot take maybe but people buy Gamepass for the wrong reasons or most likely gamepass doens't sell itself to the right audience , if you buy it only for AAA or big publisher titles then it's not really there, when there is great titles like Roboquest, Have a Nice Death, Haven ect... that I would never have discovered without gamepass As someone who plays whatever catches my eyes, gamepass is fantastic,and it also very nice for my wallet in the long term I first played Hades on gamepass and when it left I just bought it because I knew I'd replay it

[@EmperorOfMan]

Small indies wont get the the numbers they need to make Gamepass a success. AAA is still king

[@dustinthome5752]

Thank you. Has tons of games for my kids and myself. I seriously think its just xbox haters. Paul is one of the kings. If you dont understand the value of gamepass something is wrong with you

[@KnowThatIDontKnowYou]

Got introduced to the persona games because of gamepass, and I hear of people getting introduced to the Yakuza games. People that complain about gamepass are really far off from the average consumer.

[@rokmare]

The problem is these indie games doesn't justify the price Microsoft is charging for the service and Japanese companies besides Sega and maybe Square doesn't seem to be on board with gamepass ether

[@martyk656]

One of the best things about it is there are several duds I might have bought if not for Game Pass. As an Xbox & PC (& PS) gamer, I get a lot of value from Game Pass.

[@JustMe-ob1cq]

Interesting. Yesterday I logged into my XBOX for the first time in 6 months. I promptly cancelled my Gampass yesterday. Just not worth it anymore and I mostly game on PC. Additionally after listening to the recent MS interview about the future of XBOX and its move to mobile games I know I made the right decision. Steam. It is from now on. Will be selling my XBOX as soon as I can.

[@zebedee5158]

Agree with what you're saying. Seems self-cannibalising, and I'm not seeing how gamepass can ever be charged at a price to fully cover it unless there's a radical reduction in what new games they're offering on the service. Can't glut this market to monopolise it. (PC gamer here so not locked into an ecosystem.)

[@cosmicfro]

The answer is gamepass on PlayStation and the discontinuation of “Xbox” as the brand. Game Pass discount for Xbox console owners. The brand could be “Game Pass” and the Xbox Consoles Microsoft ship could be access to GamePass and potentially Steam in the future (which would be a niche partnership that the console could potentially take advantage of). I think that would be the best path forward for Microsoft and what Xbox really is now.

[@NikosM112]

I've never gotten game pass. I'd rather buy the games I like and are interested in playing than giving them €1pm where 95% of titles out there I'm not interested in ever playing.

[@snakesnoteyes]

Old hats have been warning about the digital game culture, but FOMO and it’s engendering of immediacy made people make fun of us and brush us off

[@ziolan8970]

The thing is gamepass would be an absolute hit if they included new quality Xbox exclusives on it but why get gamepass when it’s the same stuff as every other library? Also I deeply respect Microsoft for keeping the Xbox one so relevant today, but it’s negatively effecting console sales because people like my dad and I still haven’t upgraded past our Xbox one and Xbox one s respectively. It’s not a new sale so it doesn’t show up on the reports but I’ve had my s since 2020 and he’s had his Xbox one since before OG Destiny released and both are running well

[@ghostprime2000]

I watch TV on my Xbox how Microsoft intended

[@slight4526]

The big issues with game pass is the price. I lived in canada with the increasing price for the ultimate pass is stupid right now it at 23$ cad per motnh so noo i'm leaving the xbox eco-systeme i am looking to build my own pc