Pax Dei Changed My Mind about Ashes of Creation

[@Narc]

running low on clickbait titles guys... any suggestions!? come join our copium induced daily trance over at: www.twitch.tv/Narciverse

[@SirCamWA]

Copium addicts unite

[@nephrium]

MMO'S ARE ABOUT TO CHANGE FOREVER. I'll take my payment in thumb ups.

[@ronanmcconnon9935]

Crafting your way to Godhood

[@Ordo1980]

Not clickbait, but some topics: - Can we go back to the lore part? Even if it's just speculation. - Or you could talk about how the node system related things should be designed to keep them interesting. I feel like if they do it badly it will be extremely boring after we got the same goblin attack event or something like that again and again. It will be just slightly better than WoW dailys. They have to add more parameters or interesting gameplay elements besides "events depend on node progression etc.".

[@vergaerd]

AoC release date.. AoC Alpha date.. AoC Open Beta stress tests.. Anything that involves and or speaks to the masses really. Just add a sneaky question mark or put it in the description. How many people were in one place in Pax Dei's test? I've seen maybe 50 ppl in one spot on some stream, but not 200. UE4 could do that. I know they want 7k ppl per server, but the chances of them ever being in one spot is low, unless its organized. I realize that UE5 Nanite helps with the graphics and that tech has been improved to handle animations, but 100's of animated entities still takes a massive performance hit and the networking for that is another beast yet again. Just because Pax Dei displayed a glimpse of whats possible and seemingly not at full scale doesn't mean AoC will have similar networking and tech to run on. Not saying it's impossible as it has been done before, but I'd like to see a full networking or netcode stress test for these games. Give us some solid data and footage to hold on to ffs, this air is getting too thin.

[@BucketKingu]

Super hyped for both MMO's. Ashes will definitely be my solo-focused MMO, but Pax Dei will 100% be the one me and the bois will be playing on.

[@SocialFutility]

Steven give A2, Narc's breaking down!

[@SirCamWA]

UE5 out of the box definitely has issues handling lots of network synced moving entities (as in it's not really made for it), so lots of low level work needs to be done with the engine to be more capable to do with without issues. Also, AoC has LOADS of systems in game (even in these test builds), whereas Pax Dei has a FEW very basic interactions/systems (crafting, mining, etc.). It will be interesting to see if similar issues emerge in Pax Dei as the game gets more systems added to it; Then, we'll know if it is how Intrepid have approached the networking was bad (or things made in UE4 that UE5 doesn't like) or if Pax Dei have somehow made a better system to prevent server desync.

[@eLISikcz]

Lot of people forgot that intrepid is developing their custom networking system which is not easy if you need 250vs250... What I think happened here is that their previous implementation from UE4 didn't work so good in UE5 so they are tweaking it right now with bunch of players from kickstarter

[@bravethomasyt]

There's also the possibility that they didn't use a production server for the demos (unlikely but possible) which makes the networking look worse.

[@wasd3108]

bruh, Pax Dei devs be like "shaping terrain would require us writing engine code, let's call it a limitation" xd

[@SirCamWA]

@wasd3108 I mean, to be fair, they would need to do that so it really is a limitation of the engine xD

[@wasd3108]

​@@SirCamWAokay I had a talk with chatgpt, looks like I am wrong in thinking that context is needed to call it a limitation. Although I think it's cringe to call it a limitation only because the engine doesn't support it as a default feature. There's also a video on youtube 2years old that showcases bunch of plugins thrown together and the guy is shaping terrain with it, like, legit digging...

[@uWAVES]

A Day Before Studio just shut down this morning only 4 DAYS after releasing

[@Xceedpvp]

What you mean the game got cancelled?

[@lyotesharaia4829]

I think people really underestimate how much better a game looks when lighting and shadows are done excellently. I'm not talking fidelity, but lighting can really change a scene for the better if done right. Which is why Lumen is such a good tool for devs. The one thing in a video game that should be realistic is lighting.

[@Andicus]

Just look at valheim for a perfect example.

[@Andicus]

I mean just look at valheim. It has low poly graphics, yet the lighting (and water) is SUPER good making it extraordinarily beautiful and immersive despite the low poly graphics. That's what sort of sealed the deal for me that lighting is one of the most important things when it comes to graphics. It doesn't really matter how low-detail something is, our creative brain can make up for it. But lighting.. lighting is something that's just on an even more basic and fundamental level for requirement. Lighting/Shading done right is like polish for graphics, and polish is what makes something good when it comes to games. Whether it be game mechanics, systems, UI, etc., any kind of polish immediately adds levels upon levels of enjoyment, immersion, and respect for the game.

[@Auld17]

Mob movement could also be pathing issues, not just networking problems.

[@snekkers1609]

I would guess taht mob spinning around is pathing issue, but teleporting, it looks like networking ngl

[@iivanoff6826]

Bro intro reminds me on a junky in a public toile when the light comes on and they start to look where they are :D

[@AcheliusDecimus]

I really hope they can both deliver something innovating, but I am weary of bad releases at this point.

[@elementalgaming59]

Both look amazing. Will I be alive to enjoy them? Only time will tell. Ashes to ashes dust to dust but both these games play we must ..

[@FearHype]

Excited to play both of these upcoming MMOs!

[@BucketKingu]

Also, on the point of networking, often times Networking is the very, very last stage of development for a majority of multiplayer games because...well, it's expensive, primarily. And since most of the time during the development you just work alone on your own computer, you only rarely have to connect either via LAN (if it's an in house studio) or through very cheap, very bad servers to get the job done. This is mostly coming off my experience as a dev myself (VFX artist).

[@Ewendude1]

It would be nuts if they used Star Citizen's server meshing system to allow for hundred player battles 😯

[@stephanbeaudin6353]

The combat mechanics, systems, classes (or absence of) could set them apart completely. If i recall, Pax Dei is planned to be mmo survival, ashes of creation an mmorpg ( i might be wrong here). I dont get into any real hype before a game launches, but those two surely look interesting. I think the combat systems will decide which one i'll choose. Fast action combat is fun, but i'm too old for this sh*t 😂. Tab targeting has the davantage of allowing old farts like me to still be good 😊

[@JeanPhilippeQC]

Not sure I will play a survival mmo with a few questes or no questes at all. Specially if they goes through the F2P route.

[@iamFreddyP_]

your right. it's two different game genres.. kinda tired of ppl trying to compare the two..

[@TB2K08]

Excited for both really enjoyed the Pax Dei alpha and did it solo so hope to join a guild the next time around if I get in. At this point the first one to Live will likely get my $

[@bryanpoff15]

Hey just want to give my appreciation to Narc. My hearing isn’t the best and I can’t always watch the video with subtitles and the way you annunciate your words makes it much easier for me to listen to and understand. Thanks!

[@kylel7727]

@Narc In Regards to networking/latency speeds there's probably one big difference between Pax Dei and Ashes of Creation that will make comparing them like apples and oranges. Pax Dei is leveraging Command Streaming Cloud Native technology. It's similar to Google Stadia (which was Pixel Streaming Cloud Native), except instead of all the graphics and processing being processed centrally in a datacenter, it's only leveraging the datacenters for processing and not graphics (graphics will be processed on your local PC). This is why they're able to allow players to build houses with thousands of unique objects if not hundred of thousands of objects on a single server. This might actually be the most interesting (though not sexy) aspect of Pax Dei as an MMO. That said I don't know for sure what Ashes of Creation's infrastructure is going to look like as I couldn't verify it in the short 30 minutes I had to write this and that would probably be an interesting video for you to do a deep dive on. If you want more info on pax dei I was able to dig this video up that covers the technology behind Pax Dei. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWjahKaErbisedE

[@BeastDrivenMotivation]

Am I the only one who would like this game to have flying mounts, with dragons being super rare! Inspired from the book Eragon. Also the ability to become a vampire or werewolf or perhaps both, a hybrid would be nice! Kinda like the mods sacrosanct and moonlight tales from Skyrim or elder scrolls online. Also a creature taming system would be awesome.

[@BigSkilletGaming]

Pax Dei's next Alpha test is in Q1 2024. They know how to do testing on a proper schedule. I mean 3yrs between alpha tests is embarrassing. I've been sitting on an A2 key for almost a year and a half and wondering if I should have even bothered. I think Pax Dei is going to be way more fun and probably play way better in large group battles.

[@adhenyx]

I was showing my dad lumen & nanite. It's the right direction in visuals!

[@marubinmgd6838]

you can really count on asmon when it comes to stress testing the servers lol

[@Pl4sm0]

How can you compare a survival building with a pure RPGMMO game ? Hmmmm fascinating

[@ImmortalityV]

Pax whO? Also, the day before studio is already shut down. Crazy

[@shyroosan]

idk why people really tought the day before isnt a scam after all the messed up stuff they did.

[@Vujkan]

we know already whats gonna happend with The day before and then after :D!

[@Iamthenoodle]

AoC is going to die just as fast as the day before. Pax Dei has already crushed them both.

[@unityman3133]

@@Iamthenoodle most hyped for pax dei because it has a "smaller" scope. Seems like a dev team that is grounded and don't have their heads in the clouds

[@mix19tape]

​@@Iamthenoodlekek... Not even similar games, but yeah, AoC will wipe the floor with all other games, when it comes out...

[@daftmonk7215]

love your videos brother, keep 'em comin

[@gungan5822]

I prefer the constrained player housing of ashes with specific themed building models. I don't like "build whatever you want and make it look ridiculous if you want" of pax dei.

[@thedaeron3877]

I just upgraded my kickstarter pack from settler to Braver of worlds... for me It was a difficult pass for the lifetime subscrition to AoC... but my wallet feel violated at this moment lol

[@gronkymug2590]

I've just played Avatar:FoP. I think now that graphic can really really enhance gameplay :) That is until we get used to this kind of graphic. Every game now has a new target, AoC too. Good they use UE5 which is getting faster and faster. It has a potential to match Avatar's graphic someday.

[@TheHighborn]

I agree with Steven. Case & point: Dwarf Fortress.

[@fritchim5765]

what is he going to comment ?! the suspense, the intensity. noice vid - btw been playing lethal company and would love to know if you tried it

[@OGParzoval]

Here's the problem. Basing this opinion on what little Asmongold or anyone else saw in Pax Dei (Which I love the look of the game even if I disagree with their death loot system that they'll have to learn an age old lesson about with customers). A bunch of people standing around means nothing about performance in large scale activities. When you start tossing around spells and other attacks the amount of CPU power need to calculate it all out rises exponentially and because these calculations have to occur with a high degree of precision and timing they cannot be done in a multithreaded setup because you can send two instructions to two different CPU cores in order and they could come out the other side out of order. This is why for example wow's improvements were just moving LUA processing to it's own CPU. The other part is that CPU speed is king so the servers are likely running lower core count processors that can run at higher speeds. So even if you can farm out instructions for parallel processing and solve the ordering issue you run into the heat vs. core count problem which means more cores = less GHz speed.

[@BroncosGuy]

Ahhhh people still think Ashes isn’t a scam lol

[@stres7288]

To be fair Throne and Liberty seems to do decent with large scale pvp fights on Ue 4 from what iv seen.

[@klimaluky]

Sure, but NCSoft had 25 years of networking experience and know-how with excelent job they done in UE2 within Lineage 2.

[@dissident3227]

You know what worries me now? The fact i couldn’t figure out if ur footage was from pax dei or ashes of creation

[@Holydan27]

Pax Dei announced another alpha test for Q1 2024. Won't be 3 years between tests for that game lol

[@Markscrackers]

I like copium

[@AxisZtv]

There's always been this idea that networking, game engines, or hardware just isn't there, but nothing could be farther from the truth. The tech has been there a while now. It's mostly a software/coding issue. Go look at GW2 (this game is so criminally underrated...). That game has some of the most impressive tech behind it. They can handle MASSIVE world boss fights and WvWvW PvP battles all in an infrastructure that can dynamically push patches on the fly. That game is truly an engineering marvel. That game is 11 years old. The tech has made leaps and bounds over the last decade, but MMOs (a genre typically more geared toward older audiences) just haven't been all that popular that they would draw in newer talent with novel ideas on how to engage with modern tech. Which is why the MMORPGs that have come out seem like a worse version of stuff that already exist and the stuff that feels new and exciting seems like it's never going to release a la AoC and SC.

[@espo_lou]

0:02 I know it's click bait, but here I am.

[@veil1792]

*Never doubt McFearsome.*

[@KyrosQuickfist]

If they could have servers 1/10th as good as the ones NCsoft puts out for their games which have 100 people running and doing stuff in one place without a single frame being dropped....maybe other games would do well.

[@Dwarfurious]

i dont see how a caravan is the epitome of risk vs reward. For the people moving it its all risk, its stuff you already own and have earned you just want to move it. For the people attacking there is literally no risk. If the defense are overwhelming they just dont do it, if they somehow bite off more than they can chew they just respawn

[@snekkers1609]

Teleporting like that is by no means UE5 issue, for the engine there is no difference between Players, Mobs, and Npcs. There is no much difference between movement of mobs and animation. All those issues are networking problems (and they have custom networking solution), and seeing how it worked in alpha1 i really believe that those issues are caused by IS not having proper server prepared for showcases. I might be proven wrong if those issues will appear in alpha2, but until then im not worried about that :)

[@lylewhitwood1807]

Hi Narc. Thoughts on light no fire

[@tabarnacus5629]

Man I just hope that caravan mechanic isn't required to be competitive cause it looks boring as fuck.

[@DerFreiegedanke]

Boi you should play Life is Feudal, that would be your jam!

[@shadowcoffee7661]

them moving to ue5 was the right choice and was a good decision considering unreal engine 5 will only get better and better

[@Soulhope85]

p2w aside. T&L looks like really good game. Watched streams past few days and i'm surprised it the gameplay looks this good.

[@jonathanhughes8679]

Kind of wish I had of got in myself.

[@CDLightt]

T&L lookin good ngl

[@Rex_Smashington]

Had the same thoughts playing Throne & Liberty on KR servers. Like god damn if this game looks this good and doing this much shit graphically in UE4 imagine UE4. T&L has the weather shit from Ashes. Just doesn't have seasons. But rain makes the lakes rise and you can access new areas. Wind clears sand in the desert revealing underground areas you previously couldn't reach. Night/Day opens rune locks on certain doors. If T&L upgrades to UE5 Jesus Mary and Joseph. I can't even imagine. But it also makes me more pumped for Ashes because now that I've seen that it can be done on UE5 I don't think ashes is smoke and mirrors anymore. T&L runs at over 200FPS on my 4090 with everything maxed. And it's the best looking game I've ever played. It's borderline competing with single player games for best visuals imo. Truly next gen.

[@dismaspickman773]

I have a slightly different opinion... I think that immersion makes the MMORPG. The MMORPG is, at its best, a second world... a place where you, as a warrior or wizard, fight dragons. Does this require amazing graphics? No, people have been doing theater of the mind in TTRPGs for several decades, and prior to MMORPGs, text based MUDs kept the attention of the fantasy enjoyer. However, the more you can hide the systems and numbers beneath an engaging and fascinating exterior, the better the game will be. This may be the case for many types of games, although it is especially true when it comes to the MMORPG.

[@Ardie27]

Ashes of creation AKA archeage. It will be good right ?

[@Rorther]

Rendering distance, and relatively well-built construction system is what makes Pax Dei interesting. Those, tho, won't keep players interested for more than 1 month. Game will need way more than that to succeed. And honestly, i don't think they will able to deliver, and people gonna be frustrated. MMORPGs in other hand, NEED to be pretty much infinite replayability, so people keep enganged for months/years/forever.

[@Kaapstad420]

Everyone knows deep down that AoC will never release. It will just be one of those for-ever-in-development games.

[@Medjayon]

Pax Dei changed my mind about Pax Dei since they are contemplating P2W.

[@EricCheVe]

So PAX DEI refilled your Ashes copium cans

[@skafftaruss]

Again, is Steven taking too fast. Or, was there some kind of quickening of the video? Best, Skaff.

[@xecor4450]

mobs werent teleporting in recent livestream. Also UE5 can potentially handle everything its not the engine's issue. I'm not satisfied with combat still. The spell design and character movement is still dated and clunky. Its essentially trying to do gw2 combat but is definitely worse by a large margin in terms of depth, fluidity and animations. The inspiration from old mmos is too much(you can see that in skill bars, mage casting gameplay etc) which hampers the creativity in new skill design and animations which is sad to see.

[@relhaz4326]

Have they said about zerg vs zerg mechanics? After playing albion online, large scale fights in WoW for example (excluding the laggy mess) are just.... sad

[@Throwbaq]

Enjoyed that 👌

[@MEneifal]

I want action combat xD

[@MrBubinski777]

Ya it works great on a $5,000 pc!

[@JeanPhilippeQC]

Not sure I will play a survival mmo with no questes. Specially if they goes through the F2P route.

[@bad_boy8269]

2:58 hey now, TL hasn't even dropped in the west yet. Don't be judging P2W when it's not evident how the cash shop effects end game.

[@steefhermans8855]

Personally lost all hype and interest in Ashes of Elyria The combat just doesn't look fun, good or interesting And yes, it's alpha, yes it can change and improve but still.... ugh It looks so unfluid, so static, so ... bland We've had wildstar, gw2, tera. How is Ashes combat still so boring and bland?

[@bunch4674]

Because the game creator won't be able to press that many buttons

[@steefhermans8855]

@@bunch4674 Oof yeah. Every time Steven does a video you just cringe at his ability to kill his party.

[@Slimsbro93]

Valheim music???

[@jackal242]

Its funny to hear them talk about how important the graphics are to the game when the graphics for Ashes of Creation are soooooooooo bad. Like all the spells looks soooo horrible. They really need to hire someone who can stylize the graphics.

[@home4485]

not understanding the hype around pax? nothing has really been shown to support the mmo aspect. the building...sure its fine maybe good but nothing new. IDK im just missing it.

[@Proton-KB]

When is AOC coming out ?

[@sixtyfivewatts65]

up in the wazu

[@DK-uh8nk]

Why are you pronouncing it Pac instead of Pax? :D

[@dzavelion]

Let them cook!

[@gman4072]

To me, the best MMO right now it's GW2, for multiple reasons. I find it hard to believe that AOC can compete with a game that has 10+ years of content. Pax Dei however, looks like a medieval survival RPG with MMO elements. It looks dark, fun and D&D like. I believe MMO games lost their charm in the past decade since almost every game released is a copy paste of some other game. But hey, what do I know...

[@-XTC-]

GW2 focus on story content sucks tbh... it is played once or twice by most people, after that dead content... they should have focused on content which benefits of the very good combat systems and movement fluidity...open pvp, wvw, instanced pvp, raids... no most of these players are gone... 11 years of wasted potential.

[@gman4072]

@@-XTC- This is the problem with games these days. Most content creators and viewers on youtube are PVP focused. While I enjoy PVP every now and then, I don't see what's fun about smacking each other non stop. I would much rather enjoy a game that makes me relaxed and immerses me in a virtual world. To each his own I guess

[@SquirrelGamez]

It's very promising indeed... for PvPers. The most played mmorpgs currently are mainly PvE games, so I don't think this means Ashes will be the best mmorpg of all times. The best PvP mmorpg for sure, but that's only a fraction of the market.

[@ridmiIy]

Have to agree with you Narc!

[@d.mofficialvalhalla7848]

AOC will never launch.If they finish game 2030 then fk that.

[@raukoring]

PAC DAY

[@boblatouche2273]

is the game filled with quest hub.. pick up 4 turd and turn in

[@GulaschxD]

banger

[@UrfriderPoro]

Minecraft vs World of Warcraft? Why not just play what you find fun?

[@LinguistGR]

In the caravan announcement you played, the woman seems so uninterested that it's driving me off. It's awful, like she doesn't even care about what the dude is saying or about the game. The fk. Am I the only one that sees this?

[@onoff9895]

AoC - 3 years donation trash 🤣

[@PixogenPixels]

I'm over it. Beautioful graphics mean nothing for mmo gameplay. We haven't had a good mmo since 2008. That game design is now dead. So not much hope imo for the genre. Despite something like wow being amazingly designed back in the way... it's also buttery smooth. Animations and controls are always perfect. You don't find that in modern mmos either. All these videos look very flightly and out of sync.

[@mix19tape]

These thing might not be perfect from start, but remember that wow is 20+ years in development... And AoC might be polished the way for example wow plays... unfortunatly Blizzard fucked wow all the way, and once aoc comes out, i hope wow dies, but slowly... 😂

[@PixogenPixels]

Current wow is terrible. It came out in an amazing state in 2004 and lasted until around 2009 or so when they started listening to players too much instead of game design sense. and now games are just 100% profit focused around MTX/Addiction. @@mix19tape

[@columbolajos4390]

Pax Dei :D whole lotta nothing with some ue 5 assets

[@KnowNoLimit001]

Throne and liberty pay to win, what? have you been living under a rock lmao. Maybe actually get facts before speaking lmao, another youtube voice I dont need to get an opinion from, thanks for saving me time

[@pogfgfpo1304]

ashes of creation is a scam, everlasting developments and ton funds gathered from donation.

[@goodboy-vo5ju]