PAYPAL IS STEALING FROM ARTISTS. || SPEEDPAINT + COMMENTARY

SOURCES:
- Experiences: docs.google.com/document/u/2/...
- LuckFoxo33’s story: docs.google.com/document/u/2/...
- LuckFoxo33’s Twitter thread: tolnga_/status/15...
- Evans v PayPal Class Action Law Suit: paypalclassaction.net
- PayPal Acceptable Use Policy: www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp...
- PayPal User Agreement: www.paypalobjects.com/marketi...
- PayPal Seller Protection Program: www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp...
- GDPR Information: www.osano.com/articles/gdpr-c...
______________________
THRONE: throne.me/u/duchesscelestia/w...
PATREON: / duchesscelestia
KO-FI: ko-fi.com/celestiadraws​​​​​​​
DISCORD: / discord
STORE: www.etsy.com/ca/shop/duchessc...
CARRD: duchesscelestia.carrd.co

[@bonnietelocole6777]

The fact that they could take a struggling artists money and invest it in stocks (or potentially an employee getting an NFT because I don't doubt that would happen) absolutely BOILS my blood.

[@micahwest3566]

Well in fairness, banks do the same thing. That’s where the idea of interest comes from- the bank invests the money and you (supposedly) get a share of the profit. That way the money is out doing work rather than just sitting in an account. But banks have a whole slew of rules and regulations to keep them closely in check, whereas PayPal is a relatively new entity and doesn’t have the same laws passed. Just another example of business outpacing regulation.

[@artemisDev]

​@@micahwest3566 The bank at least shares the profit. PayPal just gobbles everything up. And yeah laws needs to get strict for these services. For example in India paypal can't hold money for more than 12 hours due to regulations. They automatically transfer the money to your bank account. Though these regulations needs to be more widespread.

[@Patrick61804]

Not the biggest fan, but banks run on a similar model

[@shybie2798]

@@Patrick61804 Banks run a similar model, but at least they're a bit more regulated and restricted.

[@sanguinetales]

There's good reason for it but they're going beyond "good reason" into scumbag territory.

[@shybie2798]

Man why is everything after artists these days? First the whole animation news with streaming services, Clip studio plans to go subscription in the near future, and the whole AI situation that thrives off of stealing off of artists hard work. Can we get a win?

[@aquaticalateralis]

Because society doesn't see us artists as worthwhile. They think we are a waste of space and time when we actually put in as much time as the rest of society, if not more.

[@Qvmmy]

only strong will survive after those processes, mark my words

[@petuniap942]

society only wants Picassos and Davincis. Artists who aren't those get to struggle their whole life unfortunately.

[@masteyeah4512]

If they keep that long enough and crossing more line, there will be another failing Austrian artist wanting a revenge

[@theprocrastinator6813]

@@masteyeah4512 that reminds me, before forming the Nazis, Hitler used to be an artist, but was rejected from art school, he became really frustrated about that. Who knows what kind of future he would have if he was actually accepted into that school.

[@DreamyAileen]

*PayPal is not a bank.* PayPal is not held to the same laws and standards that banks are held to. _Never_ store any significant portion of your money with PayPal. As long as you keep that in mind, you'll probably be fine. Probably.

[@rockwall_]

Oh god ,people genuinely store their important funds in there?

[@DreamyAileen]

@@rockwall_ Evidently. A few months back there was a VTuber (I forget who but I think it was Numi) who lost something like a few thousand dollars to PayPal banning her account out of nowhere

[@rockwall_]

@@DreamyAileen ouch

[@missliv.404]

Luckily I've never had more than 10 or 15$ stored but I'd still be pissed if I lost that lol

[@morgankasper5227]

wait paypals not a bank????

[@EvaHoshizora]

I add "Digital" to all my invoices, bc that covers my butt. Due to Brazil law, PayPal CANNOT refund a digital good when it's said upfront it's Digital, so I'm safer than peeps in the US for example. But that also makes them more strict on what I can and cannot do when it comes to selling.

[@fkasailor]

For the first time being brazilian was a blessing!!

[@EvaHoshizora]

@@fkasailor law wise we tend to be a lot safer than you think, issue is that most people are unaware on how to protect themselves or too scared to...

[@SucoDeLauranja]

Oh you can do that??? I'm also a Brazilian artist and seeing so much people I was extremely scared of losing it since commissions are my only income, could you explain more how to add the digital to the invoice?

[@kurapikakurta1997]

I really hope they add this to all countries! It’s nice that you found a solution to this

[@EvaHoshizora]

@@SucoDeLauranja I use the business invoices, so I have a proper list on everything. That way you can give discounts and other things as well! I don't use the "send or receive" features bc they don't protect you when selling something.

[@LittleParody]

So as a primarily digital artist who tried to use PayPal for commissions through Ko-Fi but had to deal with this bullshit, it pisses me off even more than I'm not the only one this happened to in the slightest, and I haven't even had it the worst. Lucky for me, I never got that far into doing commission before PayPal decided to give me the boot, and the only two supposed customers I had were friends of mine. I was never given the money, but I was at least able to refund it. Fuck PayPal and their complete and utter failures to actually communicate with people and just be reasonable.

[@LittleParody]

You know PayPal is a real shithole when my most liked comment(as far as I'm aware) is about how shit PayPal is-

[@tainycassu1699]

Same here, the first time i created paypal and got a comissions i got my account frozen for mpre than half a year without any justification as to why, while i had barely taken any money in, i never got an explanation as to why i was banned and now i just drag any money i get out of my account in case this happens again

[@B3lph3g0r]

petition for the whole art community to inform higher authorities about paypals foolish law-breaking behavior and hopefully getting every artist their lost money back and paypal gets destroyed.

[@trixer230]

One of the biggest scams on the internet is to pretend to be an artists doing commisions and just sell people art you got from private sources... this is why they are like this to artists.

[@LittleParody]

@@trixer230 Never heard of this kind of scam, but I'll take your word for it I guess? And even if it is true, that ISN'T the reason PayPal does this. It isn't a case of actual posers scamming people out of money. Even if it was, PayPal would still in the wrong, because they should be given the money back to the victims instead of claiming it as compensation to themselves.

[@geekwhoeatsrice]

Just be careful because some of those services are also OWNED by PayPal.

[@naraku971]

Stripe isn't fortunately. I have locals which is alternative to Patreon because fuck Patreon and their "we want your other social media and to know what you're doing off platform" No fuck that what someone else does on another platform or out in the real world is not the business of Patreon, but getting back to Stripe and locals Locals uses Stripe, the one downside to Locals is you can't post adult content on Locals (to please the almighty app stores and the failure that is venture capital), but that doesn't bother me too much. Locals also doesn't give a flying fuck about off platform behavior and they just brought streaming to the platform a few months ago.

[@LinnaV]

@@naraku971 are you familiar with ko-fi? if yes then would you recommend an artist kofi or stripe?

[@definitelynot.9364]

@@LinnaV I would also like to know this

[@_melodyx]

@@LinnaV idk personally ive seen other artists go through shit on ko fi too but idk you might wanna research into that 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@BriNYoungYT]

@@LinnaV I think ko-fi needs stripe and/or paypal in order to give/receive money. So if you plan on making a ko-fi and don't want to use paypal then you're stuck using stripe.

[@gatonegro2151]

The worst thing is that this is something that Paypal has been doing for decades, especially to artists from third world countries, but generally because of the language, and that they don't have as many followers, or a way to complain to the company, almost nobody listens to them. People should look for new, less corrupt alternatives.

[@hanin_gurl]

yes agreed

[@B3lph3g0r]

paypal should be cancelled by the law, they are stealing money which is illegal in every kind of way.

[@3emad.065]

That's not an issue but almost every website like ko fi and itch has integration for paypal and stripe. And I'd stripe isn't on your country then paypal is your only option

[@am_Nein]

Easier said than done

[@cosmicfxx]

We need an alternative run by artists for artists

[@TaylorBrookspro]

Yes

[@Data-Expungeded]

that would be great but sadly its hard for artists to run a functioning platform and have time to do art and manage. However it is possible, but we need someone to stop asking and act.

[@NiaArifah-br6cr]

sadly artist cannot run anything

[@thelonleyUchiha1]

@@NiaArifah-br6cr wrong

[@Data-Expungeded]

@@NiaArifah-br6cr i mean Krita is doing well

[@KazuraBlaze]

Had no idea PayPal was being this shady with artists. Absolutely horrendous, and I hope the lawsuit goes in the favor of the plaintiffs. Thanks so much for the video Celestia, and I love the subjects of your drawings this video

[@ProudPlatypus]

It's very similar stories to what I heard about a decade or more ago, Paypal has been stealing peoples money for a long time.

[@eraba661]

I was too naive and was thinking of using Paypal in future since I have just stepped in the digital art genre and started posting. Good lord I just dodged a bullet

[@Nogardtist]

every single company in the world has dirt on them dell makes terrible monitors that dies on its own with minimum physical touching patreon and paypal looks good on paper but are evil on practice government think and act like a company and are evil as well

[@B3lph3g0r]

@@eraba661 me too, luckily i found out about this tho till i can offer commissions, will probably take a long while-

[@eraba661]

@@B3lph3g0r Yeah same here

[@cat_savage05]

Ngl, as a 17yr, Canadian artist. It kinda scares me on how PayPal could take my account anytime for any "reason" (reason I point me being Canadian is that I dont have access to Venmo or CashApp)

[@anheld8726]

Venmo is owned by Paypal, and i had a nightmare experience with incompetent Venmo transaction where i almost lost 400$ from a commission. I never used Venmo after that.

[@naraku971]

Stripe is available in Canada.

[@daheitu0]

tbh I had no idea about any of this until now, i'm 19 and just made my own paypal while being a legal adult as soon as I turned 18 but i'm still pretty much not very different from any minor since I depend of my mom to sustain myself. And getting involved with a real bank makes me unsure because considering i'm a small artist i'm afraid of how much it'll take to convert the USD I may get in paypal to the money of my country + if I get my own account at a bank they will probably ask me to pay as well while I have not even a job and my mom wouldn't be able to help at all. If only paypal was decent...

[@fillerbunnyninjashark271]

The Canadian government can decide the same too

[@fillerbunnyninjashark271]

@@anheld8726 Braintree owns them both

[@HonkYeahArson]

Gosh... My dream has always to become an artist but it just feels like everyday, that dream is just getting more and more impossible! I hope that that changes someday. I'm so thankful for all of those who are fighting for artists rights, thank you all

[@avaarrow7478]

We believe in you! Keep trying at your dreams!

[@HonkYeahArson]

@@avaarrow7478 Thank you, it means a lot :)

[@vulpiixfoxx]

Similar thing here, I’ve always dreamed of becoming an animator but seeing how harsh the conditions are for animators in the industry, I am *really* hoping some sort of change to happen before I get into the industry myself…

[@avaarrow7478]

@@vulpiixfoxx good news for you, then! A lot of people have made their own careers in KZbin. While at first it might not pay enough, it could be a side-job, or maybe a hobby? Honestly, I don’t care about the pressures of script writing if I’m writing for me, and just so happen to share it on the inter webs with thousands of people. (I’m planning on doing that when I finish the first script) and, if you o it on KZbin, you don’t have to listen to a big company! Still, don’t use pay pal.

[@blindstar8178]

@@avaarrow7478There are also many group channels that make art as well, like "Drawfee" I think it would be cool to work with other artists I don't know and have like a group of channels that feature the talents of all these different artists, but there are many concerns with the other people being literal strangers... :/ Usually, those group channels are former colleagues and close friends, so if y'all have lots of art friends, why not try?

[@emmetteclyde]

And this is why artists need to get into the habit of transferring money directly to their bank after getting paid through PayPal. Unless you regularly buy from other independent artists, there is no real reason to keep your money in your PayPal account, especially when you need that money to buy food or pay bills. As horrendous as this issue is, it shouldn't be that big of a deal if you've already been transferring your funds after getting paid.

[@wallyww6149]

I'm from argentina and in mine and some friends case we cant transfer money from PayPal. We are basically forced to have it outside since the money has less value on our bank. We would be loosing around %20 without taking into account taxes and fees for moving money.

[@emmetteclyde]

@@wallyww6149 Doesn't PayPal have a feature that converts one type of currency to another when paying and/or transferring? Because unless if PayPal is sneaking a cut of the funds to their pockets during transfer to non-American banks, then you shouldn't be losing money if you've been pricing your commissions in your native currency to ensure you're not getting less or more money than you expected.

[@wallyww6149]

@@emmetteclyde I dont set prices with the local one for many reasons. I highly doubt anyone would buy argentinian pesos to pay specially with how devaluated our currency is. I wouldnt be able to pay shit if you ask me. Here the national bank is forced by law to convert all dollars to the currency once they get in your account. That wouldnt be a problem if it wasnt because the national bank quotes the dollar for significant less value than it really is. Theres also a tax for every move you make. The other alternative is working only in the country but theres no way near as much market for freelance artists.

[@emmetteclyde]

@@wallyww6149 Well for your first point, people won't have to buy physical currency to pay you digitally if they're already paying you through PayPal. If you don't want your customers to pay a fee to convert their PayPal funds to your native currency, then raise your USD prices so that they're equal to the value of your native currency. Don't be purposefully undercharging for your work (possibly even more than you already are) just so that your prices are more affordable to a foreign client. I get that you have to charge little if you're just starting out, but if it's been a couple of years and you're still unsuccessful at raising your prices without losing customers, then I'm sorry to say that it might be a sign that freelancing will never be sustainable enough on its own and you'll need to find another job to break even.

[@cranberry420]

I do that each time but since it takes up to 3 days for the money to get to the bank

[@Cruddy129]

This is why i always warn others that we should never, EVER treat paypal like its a bank - it does not function as one and it was never made to be one From what i heard - when you get paid, you must IMMEDIATELY withdraw the cash, no matter how big or small it is, never store or hoard it - because you're basically leaving the money in the hands of a money transfer company that has the power to simply take your money when its not being used for something - why store the cash when no one's using it? Thats PayPal's mindset in my eyes the solution to this is you should be putting the money directly into your bank as soon as you get payed You withdraw it ASAP and you have the upper hand in all this

[@jonahmiller988]

but how do you withdraw money from paypal?

[@catherinejennings5637]

@@jonahmiller988 you can hook it up to a checking or savings account with a bank and then transfer it to the account

[@devinsauls9137]

PayPal is the absolute WORSE! They don't protect people from potential scams and hackers at all! 👿

[@SeralthSparro]

Its also... not their job to? They aint a bank or a credit union mate. They are a payment facilitator and investment firm. Treat them as such. Stop treating them like a bank.

[@devinsauls9137]

@@SeralthSparro They still should have better security regardless

[@citrusangel9488]

@@SeralthSparro but they also have a supposed security for these things

[@Abc-rt9qm]

Wow. I’m so sorry to anyone who has gone through this absolute scam, that’s not ok! Big businesses like this just want money and don’t care how they get it or how it affects others. I hope everything works out ok, stay safe ❤️

[@marir6432]

I am very glad I saw this- Was waiting til i was 18 to get paypal, but looks like I prooobably wont anymore- Very interested to see the investigation you did ^^

[@Wishnstarz]

2022 just keeps getting worse and worse. Thank you for bringing this issue to light, I've been having PayPal hold my money for no reason and I never even considered it would be because of this

[@Nogardtist]

this decade is cursed and its just the beginning

[@joselopezlugo5433]

HOWS 2023 GOING? LOL

[@oversizedkai14]

Well I'm certainly never using PayPal for anything. I'm glad I found this video, thanks for making this video Celestia :)

[@rabiia_art]

same here i never used , so I'm glad

[@B3lph3g0r]

same, i think i paid one time trough paypal for an app, but that's it, i'll never store any money on there or anything.

[@braxbro6674]

The only thing I use it for is a middleman to hide card information from marketplaces.

[@spicynoodles2742]

Due to the laws of my country I cannot retain any money in my Paypal account, and they automatically send it to my bank account, now in a certain way I am glad that this law is in place, if something like would ever happen to me, PayPal could not keep any of my money. I wish there were more alternatives as easy as paypal, but the problem is that many applications only work in a specific country and it is impossible to make a transfer if my client is from another country :") EDIT: Wow, Paypal's policies asre just disgusting, they are legally stealing from thusand of users, and is even more annoying and frustatding when the commission PayPal takes when transferring money is already very high, I hope more people watch this, nobody should leave their money on that rogue platform.

[@SeralthSparro]

Just cause you don't understand whats happening doesn't make paypal a rogue platform. They are not a bank, they are not a credit union. Do not treat them like one and you have none of the problems that are discussed in this video. Misuse of a tool only hurts the user. PayPal is a tool. Treat it like one and you won't and can't get screwed. If your problem is a screw PayPals hammer is not your solution.

[@Demonskunk]

Life as an adult artist is pain and life as a clean artist is broke.

[@TiredMC]

My mom, who does work for a bank says she gets plenty of calls involving PayPal issues. Often then not, it's someone who's account has been hacked and has no way of getting their money plus their card info on their account (if one is linked). So that's great.

[@Coco_sugar174]

This is why I can't wait to get my all-in-one website done for the art community especially for those who do commissions or those who are commissioners. Make it safe for both parties will be strict on scammers artist and "commissioners". Plus a built in store/shop for those want to sell physical products as well. Oh and will be able to create post and regular updates and help with artist portfolios with a built in easy go to portfolio builder.

[@bat6594]

That sounds rly interesting and helpful! I hope it works out well for you :)

[@B3lph3g0r]

damn, how's the progress?

[@austincde]

Keep us updated!

[@walkthehighway]

Id honestly love to use your site when its done

[@TelevisionNTheatre]

I'd be interested but ain't sure this comment or comment section will ever be informed of it.

[@LZCleric]

Honestly after hearing all of this I'm absolutely glad that my country banned the ability to store funds in Paypal itself and make it so it can only be strictly used as an intermediary and all the funds go directly from and into your bank account. Truly a blessing in disguise

[@SeralthSparro]

This is how the platform is technically meant to be used. Its not a bank paypal makes that very clear.

[@jax_403]

If anyone lives where paypal is basically the only place to recieve money from commissions, this could maybe work: I do yt content, so I have a streamlabs set up, conected to my paypal. I have gotten the questioning thing from paypal before but because the money was transferred through a streaming site, and I state i don't do refunds, and can simply refer to my channel and description, they have let it go at least 3 times for me. Even if you don't do yt content, you can set up the acc, and have 1 or 2 videos with the streamlabs link in the description with a clear statement that it's nonrefundable, it might be a loophole to avoid being blocked out and such! (I hope this makes sense and maybe can help someone, they also don't usually ask questions about shipment proof and such until you get a payment of $10 or higher and when it's not regular!)

[@kurapikakurta1997]

Adding to if you don’t do yt content, I believe the same could work if someone did twitch content! Having more then one place to link to is safer, so they should probably have an account too.

[@jax_403]

@@kurapikakurta1997 That is true, yeah!

[@kingsevil5255]

We need alternatives that work similarly and aren't crypto bullshit. This is absurd. I'm exhausted.

[@TsubasaAnimations]

I got permanently banned and they didn't even bother to tell me why because it's against their policy. It's a shame because most commissioners would rather use paypal.

[@AdmiralKew]

This is terrible news. I'm not even sure if Paypal alternatives even work in my country, considering I'm in the Philippines and most of my customers are abroad in Europe or North America.

[@ShanaUsagi]

Unfortunately some sites like square dont work here either Wise is available but never used it (ph artist here as well)

[@jax_403]

Idk if this could work for you, but I usually use my streamlabs link when someone pays for a commission, and so far it hasn't been a struggle cause I simply say "it's a donation, and I state clearly there are no refunds", it could be something to look into mayhaps? ^^

[@naraku971]

Look into stripe, that would be my best advice.

[@ShanaUsagi]

@@naraku971 stripe is also not available lol (it's the same as square)

[@obara7366]

Paypal just straight up doesn't work in Nigeria, lmaoooo.

[@gabrielamilanova8820]

GDPR is a European Union law and unless the person making the request to PayPal is based in a EU country PayPal have no reason to grant it. That being said I am skeptical the method described would work but it's definitely worth a try. Overall great video and it shows much effort went into it. I didn't know this is happening and it definitely makes me think twice before using PayPal.

[@IcyWingsLetsPlays]

Brazil also does have its own GDPR and it is pretty much a copy/paste of the EU one :)

[@kurapikakurta1997]

This sucks, I was planning to sell my work by the end of next year and was also planning to use PayPal, let’s hope they adjust their system to help artists someday

[@_melodyx]

this came up on my reccomendation JUST when i needed. as an artist whose considering taking commissions in the very near future, my first thought was to use paypal. though, ive been hesitant and laying the idea back for a while now because i wasnt too sure if paypal was trustworthy like others say, this video solidified my choice. thank you for making this video. had you not, it wouldve been a ticking time bomb for impending doom ☠️

[@SpiceyCreature]

The reason I went with PayPal because it was the simplest for me to understand, all the others were so complicated. Thankfully I never leave the money in for more than a couple of minutes, and I've never been payed over $70. I wouldn't know what else to go with because everything else feels overly complicated and too large, like going in a mall for the first time after only going into small stores, it's all very intimidating.

[@Dragmiredraws]

My research, scrolling through Reddit and if the majority of reviews are bad, it’s a no-go. I unfortunately learned the hard way about TSpring 😭😭😭

[@idonthaveanyusernameideas123]

I was planning on using it when I was older to do commissions I'll be using something else to say the least. I hope people get clarity and money back

[@BiscuitsV2]

It's weird. I just had a conversation with some friends on Discord a couple months ago about chargeback abuse on paypal and how they will always have the buyer's side over the seller's. No idea they were doing this, but it's even more reason to abandon them entirely. Thanks for bringing this to light.

[@Dexter01992]

My question is how in the hell is a private company seizing someone's money and keep it permanently without the use of a court or other official legal action even remotely legal? Why are these companies allowed to police users on monetary level?

[@SeralthSparro]

Because your transferring money though their service. Leaving it on their platform is implicitly giving them rights to it. While they are no bank this is the same thing a bank does. Heres a funfact if you go to your bank and with draw EVERYTHING you own out of all your accounts if its over X amount you just can't. Because that money is tied up in investments by the bank. Money, any money at all in ANY ACCOUNT is used by the person your letting hold your money. The avg person just doesn't come across this problem very often because relatively speaking we are all too poor for this to be a problem. Don't treat paypal like a bank or a credit union because they arn't. They will invest the money sitting in their accounts till you come to request it. So if you don't pull that money out and just let it sit there all your doing is hurting yourself. Theres a reason paypal has differing rules and regulations and requirements too for consumer vs business accounts. Use the tools correctly, and for the right job and you CANT be screwed over. This video is basically just yet another case of self employement pitfalls. If your working on commssion you should take the time to set up a proper business and do things right. Not doing it because it seems "hard" or "excessive" just hurts you. Welcome to capatalism.

[@angelsub9184]

​@@SeralthSparroso what payment should be used to accept payment globally? I am considering Patreon to make my art, yet the charge is high 12% for new members,yet I live in third world country, and you have to withdraw the cash from paypal or stripe (and my cpuntry is not supported using Stripe too). What should I do?

[@skitkonst7796]

Being an artist has never been more miserable 😞

[@Keilink]

I knew they were shifty from various things I've heard, but to hear the meat of the subject is infuriating. When you don't pay your taxes the law is directly at your throat, but when this kind of shady bullsh*t happens they take years to give thousands of people justice -_- Thanks for your work, research and warning!

[@lidiapotato5492]

I think this video just saved me from starting a business selling art with the payment method being paypal I can't thank you enough for making this video I'm already struggling financially as is and do not need a sketchy payment method to add to them Thank you once again and bless you ❤

[@TheHitsubasa]

PayPal gets banned from certain countries and this BS too….

[@SleepyKitten626]

Sweet mother of spices I literally just made a PayPal for art commissions. I'm really glad I found this video but good grief I'm also so frustrated. I guess I'll need to look into other payment methods because there is no way I'm risking PayPal wrongly flagging me.

[@_Chessa_]

Apparently some other artists on here mentioned making it through streamlabs and making it a non refundable. I’m a bad adviser because I don’t personally have it but worth giving it some research into. Hope this helps.

[@ningning6608]

I'm with you. Literally just made my paypal account 2 days ago before I found this video. Very frustrating but I guess there's no other choice. Stay strong fellow artist!

[@emrys3368]

Cashapp is what I use

[@blueorchid5971]

Omg this just happened to me. I had to call them to get my account reinstated. The person on the call was pretty nice but now I'm terrified of putting my money on PayPal. I think they made a mistake on my account but I didn't really understand their convoluted response. No one actually reviewed my account. It was terrifying but hopefully I get my account back soon. Please don't keep large sums of money on PayPal, especially for long periods of time. You might wake up with a permanent limitation!

[@starofaetherius]

I already refuse to use paypal because of many past issues they have had that have shown me how untrustworthy they are. So damn glad I did. Pardon my french, but fuck Paypal.

[@Bacon-lover101]

When the corpo fails to be sneaky. You face the heccing kraken!

[@tinymittensdesign]

Thank you for bringing this to light! I had no idea, and I'm incredibly grateful that I now know.

[@PreludePursuit]

I appreciate you talking about this. An artist I follow and have purchased wonderful merch from just recently had this happen to them, which they tweeted about. Everyone kept asking why and if Paypal explained to this artist why their account was banned. The artist had to keep explaining that they sent all the documents required but never got an answer, and like you said, they won't be able to withdraw the money until 180 days pass. It was my first time hearing about this situation and was left dumbfounded, so seeing you cover it with more information was incredibly nice. I hope everyone who's been affected by this are well and I wish the best. The artist I was talking about has gone on to say that this is the second time Paypal has fucked them over and that even if they get their account back in some way, they've been hurt by this happening and don't think they could trust using it ever again, which is incredibly fair.

[@starry2819]

Thank you for making this video Celestia, I wasn't aware of this situation until you posted this video, so thanks for bringing it to light

[@harlekinmorow5081]

Holy moly, thank you so much! I had no idea!!! Immediately shared this with all of my artist friends who use PayPal for commissions. You're really cool, thank you so much for doing this type of content😭💕

[@LuciaArts]

Just when I was thinking about starting art commissions, I found this video. Thanks for informing us about that, it saves us lot's of trouble 🙏

[@ANPC-pi9vu]

This is something that's been holding me back from doing commissions. I think the safest way to take payments would be through prepaid cards, but I don't know of any platform that would protect an artist from scammers giving bad prepaid codes or just generally stiffing the artist once the work is complete. I want to do NSFW, and really wish it was more accepted and protected as a product like in Japan.

[@omegaelement]

I'm unsurprised Paypal is being shady with artists. Been hearing about it for years. They're even being called out for being unfair against streamers who use Paypal to receive donations from watchers, doing similar stuff when trolls donate and issue charge backs (leaving some people with a debt much larger than the original donation to pay back) or suspending accounts due to large or frequent donations. Unfortunately for many people Paypal is basically their only option, either due to lack of competition available to their country or the competition being even more untrustworthy.

[@madam_star_rise]

This is bad. I just going to use paypal for my job and not for my art use. It is so disgusting... we need to make paypal give back to artist

[@demsquared]

i'm so glad i saw this video just before making my paypal account. thank you so much, this was extremely useful!!

[@CJFrostthorn]

My, I don't know enough about this topic to share or say anything useful, but I respect you so much for bringing attention to this and for researching it as extensively as you have! I hope this will lead to the artists who have fallen subject to this to finally get some closure and that the lawsuit can make sure this won't happen again in the future. Thank you again for such an outstanding video on the matter!

[@jamille101]

Wow...PayPal could easily be making struggling artists homeless. I hope the law firm you mentioned is getting results for everyone that was effected

[@anobody4606]

That policy is just inexcusable in this day and age. Digital purchases are so common, even with physical goods, so discriminating against certain products like that is scummy or ignorant at best. Honestly if PayPal wasn't so 'convenient' and well-known, people wouldn't use it... because they fail to do what they're supposed to do as a simple transaction service. 🤦‍♀️

[@SeralthSparro]

They actually do EXACTLY what they should do as a simple transaction service. They fail to do the job of a bank. Cause they arn't a bank. Yet people keep treating them like a bank. Mostly cause people don't seem to understand the fundamentals of pretty much every aspect around self employment. Celestia included. There is a rather unsettling amount of total lack of understanding in this video. To a degree that would take hours to properly explain even the basics. Artists tend to be extremely poorly educated in the realms of the finance sector how it all works and the tools available more so cause many are young and overly gun-ho teenagers and 20 somethings. No ones explicitly out to get artists. The system is out to get everyone every equally and to dick over anyone at every chance. Your only protection is your own education and knowledge. The best advice to any artist is to take some accounting, business admin and economics classes. Learn how to do things right and learn what your tools are. So you arn't trying to use a PayPal branded hammer to drive a commission shaped screw.

[@bingusbnuy7246]

hi i want to mention that even if you have a personal account on paypal you can have a seller profile on paypal + can send invoices for commission with a business profile, you just have to change up the settings on it with the preview feature!

[@RazzleTheRed1]

Never leave money in your paypal account, I always put it in my bank the moment I get it

[@spatraart]

i want to just sa thanks! the amount of research and effort you put on this is incredible!

[@_aPaladin]

Do not use paypal. Paypal can freeze your account funds for any reason, and then take your money, and not tell you why. Great video, finally people are starting to see all the craziness.

[@kizuna_cookie882]

What should we use then? I live in algeria (north Africa) so I'm worried i don't have other options)

[@LT-jr3yb]

Make sure you always send an invoice and put your money in your bank immediately, I never had a problem

[@nuevomex8734]

You know what's strange, I don't use PayPal barley ever but I just got a notice I can't use PayPal anymore . It seems there are doing this across the board

[@user-tj1xq5hg7q]

thanks for this video celestia! your vids are always helpful (:

[@covartm6915]

Holy hell bro, this PayPal shit is why I never left more then $50 in there at a time.

[@bitesizeart6054]

28:58 "Wherever possible use alternatives" not possible in Europe ;)

[@nixy1244]

I know the art community is full of people who line to avoid confrontation, and these corporations know that too. It’s really frustrating how many times artists get taken advantage of and pushed aside.

[@hollowedboi5937]

I’m glad people keep companies and people held accountable and continue fighting back even after certain responses or band-aid solutions. I hope it continues in the future.

[@hannijar]

Each passing year companies try their hardest to destroy artists dreams, huh... Hoping to make a living out of digital art doesn't seem so doable anymore...

[@vrabbit7730]

From what I’ve looked up all the recommendations you’ve gave all have the exact same issues as PayPal reading the reviews they put artists accounts on hold. Some people in some of the reviews even trying to explain it was for commissions and receiving automated responses from their business or company. People who have used the cash app, Square, etc. They’re all as bad as each other and because of this I feel hopeless as an artist to even begin doing online commissions for anyone because of the accounts being on hold or banned, people have been scammed out of their money on every recommended choice you gave so it seems.

[@gatonegro2151]

There is no 100% secure platform, the best thing you can do to protect yourself is to check your bank account often and never leave money that any of these platforms could use. Don't be discouraged, many digital artists have managed to make a living from this, even with all the problems of these platforms.

[@vrabbit7730]

@@gatonegro2151 thank you :’) and I’ll try not to be discouraged

[@Kelly-sw8rz]

I’m happy that your bringing this up, I was planning on using PayPal for my commissions but now I’m thinking of just using Apple Pay instead

[@imthatgirlagain]

Yall paypal has been doing this for years!not just to artists but small businesses too! It's well known you can lose your account, and everything in a heartbeat, I'm so happy. attention was finally brought to this. Sb owners used to cut their losses with PP! Thank you so much for talking about this

[@DYOX0]

0:58 celestia: "it's available in most countries" south asian/arab countries: y..yeah right..

[@shoujoblush3234]

im from venezuela (it's supposed to be banned there). and i suggest getting a vpn, i use a free one called windscribe, just make sure to just pick a country and keep using that one to avoid problems when logging onto paypal.

[@DarkShadliy]

Okay so since we all agree that PayPal can be such a pain and since I want to know. What are the pros and cons of both PayPal and Stripe? And what should you use PayPal for and what should you use stripe for? Because I have been looking into this for far too long and I'm getting a headache from all of it. I haven't even started on commissions yet because of this endless research i have been doing because of it! If anyone knows I would greatly appreciate it! Edit: Also another thing i want to know, what is the pros and cons of a personal account and a business account and what they should be used for? Most people don't really talk about that in the art community, they also don't talk about payment methods of an online store and commissions. Since you would think it would be wise to separate the payment method of an online store from commissions itself, because having them all use one payment method would that cause problems? I'm only asking this because no one ever talks about this in greater detail!

[@L.W.74]

honest;y leaving a reply here cause id love to know if someone replies with feedback

[@ItsLoHere]

I would say a business account is only needed if you, as an artist, are a business owner. Like if you own a legal business entity like an LLC and spend a decent amount on work (which in the US it’s very easy to write off a lot of purchases as “work-related”). The most common use of a business that is illustration-centric is usually an art studio, where commissions are streamlined (where one does sketches, another does character design, etc.) to take on more commissions. Having a business entity, thus having a business account on platforms like PayPal or Stripe, helps keep funds accountable if you work with multiple people and have a financial history to help with tax-related stuff. Like the money is owned by the entity directly and then gets distributed a certain way, which is decided by the people with the most stake in the business. You should not get a business account unless you have a legal business entity as they will usually ask for an EIN, which is basically a business ID number. Edit: this isn’t legal advice, but I know a little bit about LLCs and having business accounts on online platforms

[@DarkShadliy]

@@ItsLoHere I see that's good to know, however such as business, what about an online store or selling merch where does that fall under? Such as selling physical products (paypal being linked to a merch/online store) along with art commissions as well? Would it be wise to use a business account or a personal account for both?

[@BriNYoungYT]

@@ItsLoHere Thank you for this. I've been so on the fence as a solo artist whether or not to make a business account just in case one of those processors decide to flag me for measly commission money.

[@TooCluelessArt]

I appreciate you taking the time to post a question like this. I am in a similar situation, so I'm interested in finding out more information as well.

[@BriNYoungYT]

I swear, every time I think "Maybe I should start doing commissions" there's a PayPal horror story reminding me that payment processors have intentionally made things hard, even if you're just one person and not a business owner. So uh.... Those with Stripe, what's your experience in accepting commission money through them? 😅

[@RaindropRen]

I'm glad I found this video before I start doing commissions so I can know about PayPal and what they've done.

[@modestfurret]

I use paypal because of the invoice feature, it really helps with taxes and keeps things straight forward for clients but the percentage of money paypal takes is ridiculous sometimes. I also found out the hard way that for partial payments they take the same percentage from EVERY partial payment the person makes so you have to split it into the largest payments possible or you lose a LOT of money. The most important thing about paypal as an artist is making it clear on your invoices that no shipment is required and make sure you use a business account so you pay the invoice fee because you will be breaking paypal rules if you use it for business but use the free friends and family options

[@Beetletreuse]

You can send invoices from personal accounts and still pay the fee. You don't need a business account to do this (at least in the U.S.).

[@modestfurret]

@@Beetletreuse i think as long as you make under a certain amount per year or something then yeah you dont have to use a business account. Im not sure what the max amount is, I think its pretty high so not a worry for most people 🤔

[@KingofAnime7]

Yeah i'm staying clear away from Paypal. You mean to tell me that PayPal is taking our hard earn money for creating Art for others as a way to make money. That's foul & i hope there are better places to secure funds safely without getting scammed.

[@catsozen]

Thank you for this video! I frantically removed all of my balance from paypal to minimize potential damage.

[@loppori]

thank you for having captions :] they helped a lot

[@Toaster_Draws]

Im thinking about setting up commissions. Good to know that PayPal isn't a great platform for it. The only reason I've sort of set up a PayPal account is for Etsy.

[@OfficialRamZ]

Between AI devaluing and stealing people's art, and Paypal robbing artists, I fear the digital age for artists is coming to an end. The internet is becoming an ever hostile environment for those who want to express themselves and make an honest day's living.

[@RyouWoodware]

A good work around for the digital goods issue, you can raise the price of commission by a few bucks and include a physical post card print of the picture and mail it to them so a tracking number is included as well

[@hirulioo1543]

i'm pretty late to this but a few months back i was gonna start commissions and have the payment procedures be done through paypal- i'm so glad i got busy w some other work bc i didn't know paypal was like this. ur video helped me a lot and thank u for that :D

[@snailcat]

I'd love to hear what can artists can use internationally(this would be very helpful since paypal is not awailable in my country)

[@nath6557]

Can anyone please suggest PayPal alternatives that work outside of the US? Sometimes it seems like PayPal is our only option :( for context, I'm Latin American

[@hoshitime7785]

Dejare mi comentario aqui para ver si alguien te responde. Enserio, y estaba por abrir comisiones T-T

[@baz151]

Yo uso payoneer

[@baz151]

Están Wise, Skrill y eso es todo lo que sé

[@shoujoblush3234]

usa invoices o paypal bussiness (la aplicacion de telefono). esto hace que si pones la descripcion del item que vendas, en este caso un dibujo digital, sea el producto por el que el cliente esta pagando. Con esto, ya no he tenido problemas con chargebacks de scammers o similares, solo siempre ten seguro que tengas pruebas de comunicacion entre el cliente y tu, (ej. pedi una ilustracion completa y la prueba de que esta fue entregada, etc.)

[@nishiscarletuwo835]

Comento para notif

[@iSkaeith]

Yikes. This is horrifying. Crazy what businesses can get away with. Thank you for helping bring this morally criminal conduct to light.

[@gothicskies90]

I am glad you let me know about this, so I know when I do commissions to NOT use PayPal, rather use other Banks.

[@AngelOrrandMore]

Well. I do have Ko-Fi and Stripe. I have to use Pay Pal for my freelancing stuff. Not just my bank or receive cash. Some people need Pay Pal for something important. Not trying to say that you should get it or keep it. Just something to bring up. Don't use it as a bank so that you hopefully won't have problems.

[@amanoichigo8456]

I love this video. I would love for there to be more tutorials on how to handle the other payment platforms for artists. I mean, yes, there are general tutorials on the subject but I feel that details are needed

[@Treecrab]

Not much to say that isn't already addressed in the video. Just adding that engagement because this video deserves to be seen. Good luck with your channel. Hope everyone has a good day and a better tomorrow.

[@joshuakiryu9865]

as far as I'm aware you are able to send invoices with a personal account, and I have been doing so for several years. you can also get around using your legal name as long as you don't do anything requiring proof of identity, or keeping a balance in your account, but it should still be done cautiously.

[@AngelCnderDreamer]

This is awful! I had no idea that paypal been doing this. :c I hope they change their ways, this is not okay. Btw you earn another subbed, I enjoyed watching it and the speedpaint was really cute and I love the sweets plus along with the store. Also I like your voice is nice and relaxing to listen to. ^ ^ Also thank you for making this video.

[@rozshuu2383]

Im super glad i saw this rigjt before starting my commissions!!! I hope youre doing well :))

[@gd3741]

this makes me think of that one creator how made 3.5 million dollars on their comic. nearly half the funds have been withheld from them. Heard it happens a lot to bigger creator/campaigns, didn't realise it was effecting regular creators too. It makes sense now why it happens, and answers how they manage to operate the way they do.

[@Stellar-Paws]

I gave up on paypal after they awarded a $200 chargeback to a customer AFTER proof of completed product was given. It left me in the negative and i just gave up on art commissions all together.

[@Candy_Kid_]

I can’t even say I’m surprised honestly

[@faerie5926]

I'm glad I saw this video when I did as I was about to set up a paypal account to start doing commissions-

[@elinszelkinaholdvolgyi7156]

Oh, this is so useful to know, thank you 💜

[@nova625]

I don’t use PayPal with my commissions; I use a different app to get the cash as it’s easier on people. I recently closed my PayPal account after hearing this and I will continue to use this other app. I cant believe they would do this. That’s such a scam

[@caitlynhays8685]

What is the app? I'm starting commissions so I'm a bit worried about continuing to use PayPal.

[@SLHArtFlow]

I keep seeing everyone say another app, but what app?

[@nova625]

@@caitlynhays8685 i use CashApp

[@missm0ka]

She mentioned ko-fi as an alternative but ko-fi runs off of PayPal. I've used it and they've held my incoming funds for several weeks after finishing the commission. If you don't want to deal with PayPal ko-fi isn't the way to go

[@Fionapollo]

My animator friend had an issue some months ago where he was just straight up locked out of his account indefinitely with funds from his last job still inside. He still hasn't managed to get to it even after going through all the recommended rigmarole, paypal is an absolute hack job