Did Winspace win the frame game?

[@johnmoore198]

Such good content, PT. Love your engineering-first principles and advice - best bike channel on t'internet. Thanks dude.

[@PeakTorque]

That means a lot thanks

[@Csapi007]

Really like your videos! Usally not so much interested in the particular product, but you share so much information regarding enginerring, it's good to listen to.

[@PeakTorque]

Glad you like them!

[@erikklumpp3464]

Dude I got to say thank you this is some of the best cycling content in KZbin

[@erikklumpp3464]

You and Brian Cahill are my two faves at the moment

[@PeakTorque]

@@erikklumpp3464 thanks thats very kind. I will look him up

[@XXXENOWRAITHXX]

I would agree that the largest sizes in most of the frames are too small/too low. I'm 6'5 (195 ish) and the search for a dtc chinese frame has been a pain... most don't even go to a 58 let alone anything close to a 61. I ended up buying a frame that matches canyon's sizing on their grail frame so that was a win.

[@peteo3436]

💯

[@ovi-kernkraft400]

Agreed, I ended up with the latest Trek Madone in an XL, the stack and reach was the reason with it having a highish head tube

[@Dustydayzz]

i was the same nightmare for me

[@bloopasonic]

I'm very average height, and was looking at winspace when I bought my last bike... but was also put off by the geometry. Very low stack, combined with long wheelbase and trail numbers that would be more typical of touring bikes. Odd combo.

[@johnnycab8986]

I think the 'weird' geo from these brands may be partially explained by Asians having shorter legs relatively (as in a 170cm tall Asian's legs will be shorter than a 170cm tall European) to people of European lineage so they don't have to jack their seats up as much leading to less drop.

[@kailashblades]

my housemate completely rounded my front thru axle once- having the hex on the other side was a lifesaver +1 to the barrel nut seatpost clamp. Once you use one it's hard to go back. Some stems use them for the steerer clamp too.

[@robertwhyte3435]

As a last resort, if you can't get an axle out, you can drill out a hole in the axle big enough to glue an impact driver hex socket with JB weld or other really good epoxy. Then use an impact driver to remove the axle.

[@nomadcarpenter8549]

I concur regarding the headtube length, its the main reason i haven't tried a Chinese frame. Id be on the size down and be happy with the head tube yours had.

[@cat4garage]

@PeakTorque - Nice Video. Your opinion on the SLC3 frame validated my thoughts on mine, so thank you. I've had a lot of frames over the years and this one was as clean as anything I have ever had, inside and out. Mine was a true 720g in a size Medium - black finish. I am in the US and bought mine the day it became available. I have had it built up for about a month and a half and have around 900 miles on it so far. 14.9lbs all in with Zipp 303 Firecrest, pedals, cages and computer mount. A Darimo seatpost and Berk saddle are the luxury items on my build. Looking forward to your ride review. Really enjoying mine so far.

[@cat4garage]

Also. I made a video of my unboxing with the actual weights of every part. Video of the finish quality, etc.

[@PeakTorque]

That is odd. Ive seen a black XS, same quality and internal finish and its 751g on the scales (frame only).

[@talonlan]

I like winspave and Elves and would consider them but they don't seem to make a frame big enough for a 6' + rider like me.

[@BikesKomsCRO]

6'5.. Here.. No chance mate.. Tried and wouldn't fit. Went for a 61cm sl7 s works for about 2£k used.. Basically new though!!

[@jimmynickelz]

6'3. Falath Evo for about 4k miles. The geometry is weird, but its comfortable. xxL

[@BikesKomsCRO]

@@jimmynickelz they dont make XXXL

[@klugeskind90]

Overall happy with my T1550 2nd gen. Had to sand the rear brake mounts though and not a huge fan of the seat post wedge

[@rg807]

That paint job is awesome! Long live paint (again)!

[@ll-zh4rc]

Bought a frame from the webshop last year and wasn't happy with the finish and their response. There were quite a few spots of paint and glue residue, which i had to file away myself. Kind of an odd feeling filing paint on your brandnew frame honestly. The most severe spot was on the front dropout: i couldnt get the wheel in at all, since there was glue where it wasnt supposed to be. I managed to make it work, but it is still difficult to get it back in. Not a just pop it back in job. Their Wheels are excellent all around though. Survived a rear derailleur in the spokes, without much damage.

[@joelecho]

Thanks for the detailed look! Now you just need to talk them into making one with 20 or 30mm more headtube so I can slam my stem instead of running so many spacers and I'd be tempted!

[@jrasero23]

My next frame. A good deal of people have "reviewed' this frame but no one besides you has actually reviewed it

[@thetinusnl8834]

Every PT video opens my eyes on a new subject of bike engineering. Want to replace my TCR gen9 XL for multiple reasons. Primarily the seat tube angle, as you've also mentioned often. Second, wanting to get a more "aero bike" that also actually supports prolonged aero body positions (kinda related to STA). Just don't know what to get because your videos may have gotten me to the point where I might be too picky lol. I've compared about 90 modern Western frames/brands of which only an Aeroad and Koga Kinsei check all geometry-boxes... then come the other boxes... Keep the videos coming, cheers!

[@Pablo_Coach]

Maybe Tarmac SL8 ? (What’s wrong with seat tube angle?)

[@thetinusnl8834]

@@Pablo_Coach PT has mentioned it in many other videos, most recently his custom frame I believe. Slack STA = hip impingement, strengthened by seatpost setbacks. That Tarmac SL8 has horrible geometry (and price).

[@Pablo_Coach]

@@thetinusnl8834 in my size SL8 and TCR frames have perfect seat tube angle for me 74’

[@thetinusnl8834]

@@Pablo_Coach Frame sizes are exactly the point we (Peak Torque, me) are referencing. We both ride TCR XL's which have 72.5 STA, which is plain stupid.

[@flexxx222]

@1:08 That a GarandThumb reference?

[@MaciejNaumienko]

Schola Gladiatoria probably

[@djohnson1981]

I caught that one also.

[@johnnydho]

Nice review! Any chance you could look at the SEKA Spear as well? Seems like a somewhat pricy frame but people say the build quality is good. Also could you do an aero test/review of wavy wheelsets like the Light Bicycle Turbo wheels? Wondering if the aero/stability claims are accurate.

[@sabamacx]

The typical asian body proportion is tall torso and short legs --- so when they extrapolate frame geometry to larger western sizes, they stay long and low. Combined with most frame sizes finishing at an xl/xxl (in reality a "56"), they just don't have accommodations for taller riders.

[@PeakTorque]

@@sabamacx i don’t think they do this intentionally for Asian riders. They’re not selling these in the domestic market as the Chinese covet the western brands (pinarello, s works etc)

[@dlee5312]

Agree about the geometry. I’m 184cm tall and haven’t purchased a frame because of the shorter stack.

[@Viamscience]

For sure this is a KZbin special. 10000%.

[@marcvb3364]

Specially if they watched the Tavelo video

[@hcw199]

Peak torque says what I have been thinking for years.... These bikes are literally all the same. People like David Arthur saying he can tell the difference is just bs. He is talking crap.

[@BevandEdMusic]

I've tried to closely match my gravel bike and road bike geometry, and even with 20mm extra wide tyres, and a 3kg weight difference, I've got to say it's really not that radical a difference. At the end of the day it's just a bike lol.

[@Timberius]

Anodization has it's limits, as it only protects the surface. But galvanic corrosion affect goes deep. The aluminium eventually becomes brittle and get tons of little cracks. At this price point I don't understand why they don't use titanium fittings. Ti doesn't have that issue, it's very compatible with carbon

[@lukewalker1051]

cost relative the typical life of a racing frame understanding that many race frames won't last over 5 years.

[@pierrex3226]

Very nice! With all your aero testing, how many watts is a round seatpost costing at c.35kmh (vs something aero shaped)? Do you have a sense of ballpark number? I'd also be tempted to ask the same question for an aero shaped down tube vs this one, but given how the SL8 doesn't look aero at all and yet is supposed to be, idk about that.

[@PeakTorque]

Unfortunately its impossible to test as it means changing the bike but at 35kmh it probably would be immeasurably small. Thats my guess.

[@mikehall6608]

@@pierrex3226 probably half of fuck all.

[@zazzleman]

Love my Winspace C5. Had a BMC Roadmachine 01 2018 and the Chinese brand kills it. Coupled with a Hambini BB and you would be amazed at the difference.

[@Pablo_Coach]

What hambinis bb doing good for this frames and ride quality ?

[@kimwarner6050]

What was the weight of the frame

[@lukewalker1051]

Hambini BB's suck.

[@Pablo_Coach]

@@lukewalker1051 Why?

[@lolbubs11111]

For light 27.2 posts, I like the Specialized Alpinist -- not too expensive, mine was like 140 grams, and classic two bolt clamp style.

[@MrJaycobsen]

One of the best

[@PeakTorque]

Nice. Il look into it. This single clamp is already creaking and giving problems

[@macht4turbo]

That seatpost clamp design is pretty much the aliexpress standard. You find some that are threaded right into the clamp, but those are bottom shelf even for aliexpress.

[@myNamezMe]

When will any brand make a frame optimized for short cranks...

[@PeakTorque]

Thats why i went 80mm bb drop on the framework

[@rogerbergua6268]

I got a Winspace SLC 2.0 (previous generation in rim brake) and the bike climbs like a dream!

[@PeakTorque]

I nearly bought one of them years and years ago but they didnt make my size. Seems they still don’t 😬

[@markhall6026]

I've got one sram red mechanical and hyper wheels fantastic bike sub 11minute hard knock pass too

[@Pablo_Coach]

@@markhall6026but descending in wet conditions will be a pain and dangerous

[@markhall6026]

@Pablo_Coach this would have been true ten years ago but not now on winspace pads

[@Pablo_Coach]

@@markhall6026 wow, Tell me something about it

[@MAEBikr]

My issue is -SL8 Pro 5000 cdn, SL3 2500 cdn - Its hard to argue with the value proposition. Used SL6's cost more.

[@fleurdelispens]

I did not have PT coming out in favor of Tange modular dropouts on my bingo card for the day, but here we are

[@metatron007]

The stack for the Small and Xsmall have infact increased which is somewhat annoying if you are tinky like me. Infact I sent an email to them saying consider having the option regarding their integrated bars and having a -17 degree option which is not a bad idea if one needs to get lower rather than going for the smaller size.

[@olo398]

rip chainstay paintjob. nice bike. hopefully winspace still keeps being humble. such an easy rec for bikes.

[@diabetichar441]

PT, can you explain why compression plugs are needed in fork steerers and not needed on round (carbon) seatposts? Carbon seatposts seems much thinner compared to steerers. Thank you!

[@Pablo_Coach]

Much much higher stress (during braking) on steerer. the seatpost is not subject to such cutting forces.

[@joelecho]

@@Pablo_Coach Yes, and the seat post is typically loaded vertically. Braking hard or hitting a pothole at speed loads the steer tube in multiple directions.

[@rwo5402]

What brand is the rear mudguard an the assembled winspace bike leaning against the fence?

[@truktronton88]

he made it himself using carbon. he has a video talking about it

[@porkyparry1]

Sheldon Browns love child😊

[@PeakTorque]

@@porkyparry1 a child from Sheldon but who is the mother?

[@porkyparry1]

@PeakTorque A casual liason with Annie Londonderry 🤑

[@matthewsackman]

Need the Framework build vid!

[@markyoung950]

Would not bearing retaining compound insulate a metal sleeve BB from galvanic corrosion? The threads for the rear wheel through axle could be greased or treated with anti-seize. One could pound an easy-out into the 5 mm hex and unscrew the through axle. Windspace knows who you are, that you will measure the tolerances on the frame and will look down the tubes. They have prepped the frame.

[@abedfo88]

that XL geometry would fit me perfectly. Im 6'2 and like low and short!

[@sarahtoustra7127]

Winspace used to have an XXL version of the SLC 2.0, but they stopped making it in 2023. They probably did not sell enough to make it worth investing into a separate mould.

[@petesjk]

I would say that Asia is their target market, and I’m guessing their geometries are for a relatively more regional market. That said, it can’t be that hard to produce different versions for different markets. In my mind, at these prices there isn’t much value incentive. These are no longer cheap enough to indulge curiosity. I would rather have a demo that I could borrow than dedicate and commit this level of money and time. At $2000 there are lots of frames available.

[@gaza4543]

Is there I can’t think of many western frames at 2k and under.

[@FaiscaaaH]

Another great review from Mr. Peak torque 💪 I have a question, not regarding this video but one you did in the past, what's the tubeless liquid that you are using??

[@Sfs678]

It is mentioned in the video of the 9velo MTW wheelset

[@FaiscaaaH]

@Sfs678 many thanks mate

[@Sfs678]

@@FaiscaaaH No problem!

[@PeakTorque]

Oko off road truck sealant. Bike stuff is a rip off

[@FaiscaaaH]

@@PeakTorque you r the man 💪

[@08GH22]

what brand rear fender? pls

[@SamuelBlackMetalRider]

His own custom made 3D printed. He made a video about it

[@PeakTorque]

@@SamuelBlackMetalRiderthe mould was 3d printed but the fender is full carbon fibre epoxy! Weighs about 60g

[@08GH22]

cool thanks

[@lolbubs11111]

If you want a loooooong frame -- my XL Stromm has stack and reach figures of 540 and 466 respectively. (It's mostly designed for running a riser stem unless you're hyper-flexible.)

[@PeakTorque]

Thats a super low stack!

[@RyonBeachner]

On the topic of blind holes and dropout design, I noticed the new Dogma F has kept the threads as part of the dropout instead of bonding a metallic insert into the frame that can’t be replaced if damaged. Obviously a different end of the market, but it was surprising to me when I started looking around that other bikes with blind dropouts weren’t that way.

[@c4p3fi3rr]

I never thought of this, and now you have unlocked a new fear :D Pinarello's solution is clever, but i guess the threads in the fork are still bonded. I was wondering if blasting them with compressed air after riding in the wet would be enough to fend off galvanic corrosion.

[@notjulesatall]

I would love to buy you a carbon mudguard if you ever make more of them!

[@PeakTorque]

Its in the works. Developing new moulds now. Feel free to email me

[@andyman127]

Great review... sad to see that I am screwed on size. +4 in wingspan to my height, and low and sort is going to kill me.

[@Dustydayzz]

i wanted winspace but the short seattube meant my Seatpost would be sticking out too much. my saddle height is 84.5 cm according to my previous bike fit but i have it at 83cm with 20mm offset seatpost. icanA9 frame fit me well. i could slam the stem too. its very similar to TAVELO in geo

[@BKltd001]

Dam no 1 does bike reviews like this guy - full of solid technical info are u watching this bike media ?

[@jno682]

Great job on the video! Can I ask what seat you chose? In the world of way over-priced seats, what is the best brand? And, is a gravel oriented seat really more compliant than a road seat? Thanks!

[@PeakTorque]

39 quid - bontrager aeolus comp. Forget the ridiculously expensive ones - they have less padding!

[@alanhill5278]

Good informative video and the colour scheme and finish on the frame looks amazing but one small point on the finished build and it may well be a personal thing to you but why is your saddle pointing down, don,t you feel like you may slide forewards. Could it be to do with the fact that the frame is a little undersized for your height as it,s the largest they make although being called XL ?

[@Stevenafoe]

Now i can’t get over the fact that this might be ‘youtube’-prepared as you say.

[@petef15]

Certainly won the paintjob game.

[@johncoates6039]

So correct on the Chinese geometry

[@cup_and_cone]

9:32 - Someone at Winspace had some fun sanding the headset.

[@lolbubs11111]

Also - that frame is gorgeous. Love the colorway.

[@keepit100kg]

Why manufacturers can't increase stack more closely to that of the SSE or Tarmac is beyond me. That stack and reach is a combination that fits far more people.

[@PeakTorque]

Agree, if in doubt, just copy the tarmac. Then even the 58 is big enough. Could drop the 61 mould if you want to cut costs

[@fukairen9601]

Why we need internal cable routing on a non-aeroish round tube bike?

[@sbccbc7471]

It's sadly the norm for 2020s bikes.

[@PeakTorque]

Trendzzz!

[@Pablo_Coach]

@@PeakTorquewhat do You think about integration in new iteration of TCR’s? I think D-shape steerer maybe worse than this FSA like in this Winspace frame…

[@PansRocks]

I liked the look of their previous frame the SLC, these frames with the lower seat stays just look wrong to me and I don't think I'll ever buy one, understand they stiffen up the rear a bit and possibly add some flex to the top of the seatpost for comfort but its the work of the devil in my opinion. Used the threaded bar press for years, too much wiggle from the coarse threads for these newer standards I've found however, def recommend a cheapo press off eBay/Amazon - that and the Topeak Saw Guide are two pieces of kit I'd def tell my younger self to buy without hesitation.

[@OldDavo1950]

We seem to have gone out of our way to make something simple, BLOODY HARD.

[@stijndeklerk]

Geometry wise the smaller sizes like a 50 that I have, is right on the money, very little difference with a Canyon Ultimate I own. My SLC 3 is still waiting to be build up, so i just measured the BB, it's right on the money too, no issues there. The reason I went for this frame is the raw carbon option at 700gms, the round seatpost & the generic FSA headtube. I'm really impressed with he one mold layup and smooth internal finish.. (never seen one like this, I've build a few). A shame I missed out on your discount code. Curious how you get on with the build.

[@PeakTorque]

The smaller geos are fine. They lose their way in the big sizes. No idea why, just copy specialized. I dont think their moral compass would deter them from doing that 😉

[@stijndeklerk]

@@PeakTorque Does their factory also produce the Specialized SL8? It would not surprise me..

[@SOTKAZ]

I have Winspace T1550 2nd gen XL and the Winspace Zero SL Integrated Bar and Stem. Can i put in headset system only split spacers or needed a top cup (non split) before stem for intergrated stem ? because in my package there is only split spacers and the top cup for normal stem.

[@dickieblench5001]

I'll stick with the TCR

[@lukewalker1051]

Me too, for now. 10 years from now, China will be a major direct seller. They improve every years and off course many if not most name brand frames are made there. The Chinese are very good at reverse engineering which suits their culture.

[@william2788]

I completely agree about the geometry. Im 179 cm so not a giant and the stack, reach would be an issue for me as well and im using the most aggressive setting when doing myvelofit. I would need an 80 or 90mm stem on an XL depending on the bar reach.

[@jamesd5241]

Jesse is fuming at this

[@rsmiii]

If you strip out the hex of an axle best bet is an easy out - a threaded "drill bit" that will bite into the hex hole and back out your axle. But if you do strip the threads on the female end, that's definitely another issue and you're proper f*cked.

[@seanmccuen6970]

just don't strip anything to begin with, ffs. problem solved.

[@PeakTorque]

Great solution that

[@jambo2502]

Can I ask, what frame size can you fit from them? Because we're roughly the same height and I can't find a fit from them at all.

[@PeakTorque]

@@jambo2502 this frame is xl

[@lukewalker1051]

Nice video. I enjoy your well spoken narratives which as an engineer are always more comprehensive and illuminating than your contemporaries that perform similar builds on youtube. I wouldn't buy this frame for the reasons you state about geometry. I am close to your height and typically ride a XL as well. PS. One niggle. I disagree with your observation about the location of the hole in the steerer for front brake hose routing. If you move the hole up vertically on the steerer, it actually creates more, not less of stress concentration because the diameter of the steerer is reduced. Section modulus/moment of inertia. Last thing, I would never push a one piece bullet style metal BB into a press fit carbon frame, especially since a two-piece plastic (glass filled nylon) 2 piece Shimano BB86 with lower modulus of elasticity is utterly reliable and dirt cheap.

[@jasperverkuijl]

Suuup dude. Good review. Looks like it’s solid. How is the BB and head tube stiffness? My SLC2.0 was quite flexy so wondering if that’s improved. Also about the sizing, I agree the naming is off. (XL vs L), but I think their main market is actually still domestic (Asia) and not “us” the western tall people. Asia market is booming right now on contrary to west. 🤙🏻

[@PeakTorque]

I have not measured it but it feels plenty stiff. Very impressive. Different factory to the slc 2 too.

[@jasperverkuijl]

@@PeakTorque🫡

[@pedalandchill]

Did you measure how much thread is purchased in the thru axle? I got the T1550 gen 2 and the axle only got 2 full revolutions before the axle bottoms out so maybe just 3mm in there. Compared to my other bikes, I got quite a few more revolutions. I am concerned if that is enough thread depth for long term safety. Granted the thru axle is not really an axle but just holding the wheel in place. Can you calculate how much torque is safe given the 3mm depth. Also the ledge holding the hub and supporting the weight esp on the fork is rather shallow in my opinion and as compared to my other bikes. What do you think?

[@shankeong6753]

Agree on the geometry. I cannot understand why the stack heights for each size is so low compared to other frames. Granted that they have improved it for this generation of frames, but they are still too low.

[@johndef5075]

Couldn't a stuck rounded thruaxle be removed with a drill and a bit designed to remove rounded fasteners?

[@pierrex3226]

Unless you've F'ed the thread, alu is soft, you can always botch something, but most bike shops are incompetent hipsters these days, so you'd have to be pretty resourceful to rig something. The general idea is that covering the other end is form over function because you removed redundancy

[@martinkroutil]

Thanks for a review. I was looking at this frame Looks good, but you are right for tall person that stack height is for my fit basically unusable and that was a deal breaker for me.

[@PeakTorque]

No problem 👍

[@mikehall6608]

Do you have Ultegra bodies on your Assioma pedals? 🤔... Were they originally the Keo version?

[@PeakTorque]

Always been ultegra. Never had keo assiomas

[@mikehall6608]

@PeakTorque I see. I've only had the Keo ones, but they're not Look branded. I was just wondering if it was possible to retro-fit Shimano bodies, I was surprised to see they're actually Ultegra-branded.

[@PeakTorque]

Theyre not changeable. These are the dedicated ‘duo shi’ pedals

[@DmitriGordon]

At this point I’ll buy whatever bike you tell me to buy.

[@CatManDoSocial]

Great stuff, mate. Looking at all of your bikes over the years, you seem to be exclusively on Shimano drivetrains. Is that an engineering choice or just personal preference? Is there something about SRAM that you think is inferior? I'm certain that people who watch this channel will have strong feelings but I'd like to know yours. Thanks!

[@michaelconway8352]

Both his TCR and this featured frame have BB86 shells, which are meant to accommodate 24mm axles and not SRAM axles which are wider. Perhaps that's the deciding factor 🤔

[@CatManDoSocial]

@@michaelconway8352 True, however, he still chose to use Shimano on his Santa Cruz MTB. Shimano is definitely a choice.

[@MrKipperfish]

Do us tall guys a favor and give us a toe overlap report? Interesting to note: Winspace references an XXL size on the C5 and T1550 pages, though they don't offer frames in that size.

[@PeakTorque]

No toe overlap 👍

[@MrKipperfish]

@@PeakTorque Brilliant, thanks!

[@changliu3915]

Haha as far as I understand Tavelo is founded by former Winspace employees so this is probably a smart move by Winspace.

[@dperreno]

That's kinda funny why you don't like that single-bolt seatpost design. I have the same design on my Emonda seat mast and I dislike it as well, but for the opposite reason. It is almost impossible to adjust the tilt of the seat. Those cones get wedged in so tightly that I have to completely remove the seat and outer clamps and use a hammer and punch to dislodge them to set a new angle. Then if that angle isn't right, I have to go through the whole process again. It takes forever, and cannot be done while on a ride. I hate it!

[@PeakTorque]

Yep. Another flaw!

[@jarinat]

Canyon Aeroad frame in L size ha stack 580 and reach 401 mm so that's maybe where it comes from. They have copied geometry from their aero frame T1550?

[@alannkevin]

Ive been watching this guy for quite sometime now and there is something that I want to put out here, maybe I am wrong, but I think his bikes are waaay to small for him, From my understanding, some frames are designed differently when you go up sizes to compensate the center of gravity of the rider, If I am right if someone that should be on a 60cm rides a 56cm and somehow makes it work, the center of gravity will be off and the bike will ride and feel different from what it was designed and intended for, so his review of it might be a little bit wrong… my opinion

[@U.s.e.r.3493]

You know it's good when you're sticking your neck on it. Well done winspace (though I'm not going to buy one anyway)

[@mrndlprsnr]

interesting rear mudguard, ali express?

[@PeakTorque]

no, i make them

[@berry5954]

If the facing isn't done at factory a frame should never receive a rate higher than 5 out of 10.

[@kaseycarpenter73]

I've had a gravel G2 frame for years now, and it is just amazing for what I ride - best of gravel and road for me

[@jkk916]

🤣Man, just admit to yourself that you don't want low-stack frames purely out of vanity🤣It is nothing wrong to have a chimney if it is not excessive. Low stack frame generally means more adjustment range and if you ask me, it even looks better than slammed trekking bike.

[@PeakTorque]

Haha true there is the vanity side of it for sure, but structurally I don’t like hanging half my body weight off a 50mm length of steerer. Its not a nice thought when its a safety critical item. Fortunately this one is nice and thick unlike the tavelo which has a wafer thin steerer

[@BestKiteboardingOfficial]

Tip to butt, for all my navy fans...

[@hill160881]

Considering your thoughts on framework and that your opinion can be bought I will find another reviewer to follow advice from.

[@endercrafts9056]

I guess the sizing's because there aren't that many tall people in China.(Most of which went to play basket ball lol) And asian people tend to have shorter legs and longer torsos compared to western people.

[@TESTA-CC]

Giant Propel Advanced Pro all day long 🤙🤙

[@Pablo_Coach]

Poor (too big) trail in XS and S size frames

[@gaza4543]

Can I ask? When you say you received the frame from Winspace. Is that from al’s bikes shed (winspace uk) or direct from winspace the factory? I’ve been talking with the former and they ream and check the bb before sending out as they do the rest of the surfaces. According to the chap the slc doesn’t need it more often than not, but take that for what it’s worth. Like you though I’ve been comparing the prices giant really only being a direct competitor. There are down sides to both but I’d buy the winspace purely because of the round seatpost. The only other thing that puts me off is the bb86 and sram dub compatibility but no one is reporting problems yet.

[@PeakTorque]

Direct from WS mate. I know they have a 🇬🇧 distributor but not been in touch with them before. The round seat post is good but two weeks in and the single bolt clamp is confirmed pain the arse. Endlessnly slips.

[@alsbikeshed]

@@PeakTorque Happy to talk anytime PT! 😉

[@edmundas919]

Bikefitter refused to do bikefit on T1500 for me, because it was too long and too low. He said too many compromises would be needed and still wouldn't be as comfortable. Sitting position is aggressive, but I feel fine.

[@gaza4543]

I have yet to meet a bike fitter that knows what there actually talking about. Most have only been on a 1 day crash course.

[@shaunbyrne9553]

I like the lower front end. I got a Yoeleo R11. Love it but a little squirrely at speed and toe overlap. Looked at sizing up but the top of the head tube was too high. Had to look to another brand for my next bike.

[@michaelmechex]

I think the driver behind weird geometry is the stupid obsession with top tubes parallel to the ground. It doesn't make sense for modern bikes where you want a lot of seatpost showing for compliance and results in too much standover height. Also is there any valid reason road bikes are stubbornly refusing to use UDH? I don't see any. Instead we got a solution like this, that will render the frame garbage if you strip a thread.

[@gaza4543]

Well I’d argue as a 170cm bloke with short legs and T rex arm that struggles with stand over that the “small” is perfect as is the reach and stack. It’s refreshing to see a bike made for shorter people and not for tall people and then working backwards messing the geo up for smaller riders. I can’t get on a number of nice bikes there just to big! Heck I’d have to buy a 49cm just to sand over an allez sprint if you’re under 5,6 you anit buying many brands off the peg. Its tail as old as time, off the peg bikes are made for the average size which at this moment in time 171cm globally. And as I said look at the geo at that size and it’s pretty much bob on.

[@ivanivanov7064]

Save your money and get a Time frameset. Flawless, creak-free, perfectly faced, immaculate paintjobs.

[@marcinstyle85]

yes agreed but Is double the price ....

[@ivanivanov7064]

@@marcinstyle85 I know but it's worth it, I'm currently riding one. Night and day difference between my Time and my SLC 2.0 which was flexy, badly finished, oversized BB shell and so on... Yes, maybe SLC 3.0 is improved but I would not risk buying it just because it's half the price and as you can see brake mount bosses need facing.

[@marcinstyle85]

@@ivanivanov7064 Fair enough I always want Time frame (definitely the best one on the market )may finally buy one in near future as Im looking for new built from some time now

[@Pablo_Coach]

@@ivanivanov7064what Time frame do You have? Disc or rim brakes? ADH or Scylon??

[@ivanivanov7064]

@@Pablo_Coach 2023 ADH Disc.

[@MAEBikr]

I have just received my SLC3.0. I have the same issue as this youtuber(kzbin.info/www/bejne/oJCQiayDe5yEr8k) where the lower headset bearing does not land on the bearing seat on the fork. You show it at about 16:02 -assume you are not concerned about it?

[@PeakTorque]

@@MAEBikr mine does not wobble like that. It sits flat, no play when preloaded. Have you contacted winspace? Also are you sure you are using the correct bearing not the top one…

[@MAEBikr]

@@PeakTorque I will. I have commented on the references video - Thanks for the feed back.

[@MAEBikr]

@@PeakTorque PT - I have to turn myself in. I have checked several other bikes I own - they have the exact same design with no issues. I gave you a false alarm :) Thank you to the reply and interest!

[@PeakTorque]

@@MAEBikr its normal to have some movement before assembly and preloading, but keep checking. Safety first!

[@Hard_Work_Is_Rewarding]

Which frame is that? Winspace have their reach/stack ratio messed up. I almoust bought agile during Black Friday from them but their geometry works only for a very relaxed recreational riding. And why would you need a high end frame for that? Only if you are all about looks maybe.

[@chrisprice2200]

$2000usd? Are you guys paying terrifs on bike frames? This frame is $1600 Canadian, and the cheapest TCR is $4499 Canadian.

[@markj.a351]

Why can't Western brands offer a decent paint job without charging $8k for a frameset

[@PeakTorque]

Margin

[@adamolig3865]

They are sold for exactly as much as some knucklehead is willing to pay for it.

[@hucklejoko4838]

SLC 2.0 user here, while I am very much happy with my frame, it just sucks balls that they couldnt provide me a lead to a RD hanger which I may have cracked in mine, I have reached out through their different social media channels to no avail. DIstributors in my country are also of no help because I bought the frame used. Apart from their lack of aftermarket support, they just really offer good products. Im glad that their quality is carried through the SLC 3.0

[@PeakTorque]

@@hucklejoko4838 ouch. Which country are you in?

[@Piter-bike]

Weight frame, seatpost, heandbar, fork?