Peavey Didn't Use Prison Labor, probably (KDH response video)

[@randallhaney7909]

I have to say this channel's content and subject matter is not typical .. thanks fellas you are appreciated

[@danthegeetarman]

Glad I found out about your channel! Very cool to hear the legal side of things regarding the music industry 🙏

[@blueslawyer]

Thank you for coming by and congrats on getting the first comment!

[@Celestros]

There's something i find annoying in the KDH video and it might be because i'm french, but i don't think cultural diffrences matter so much in this situation. In his video KDH, ask Peavey to proove that they didn't used prison labor, when they answer that they don't have any evidence of that in their archive. KDH allegate something like it's not a proof, and they might be lying or hiding something. But let's get logical, if it never happened peavey can't produce any evidence of that, unless they made a non contract for non employing prison labor wich should be weird. I think it's at KDH to proove that it happened, and not at peavey to proove their innocence.

[@blueslawyer]

Exactly

[@shorerocks]

I agree. I had the same thought when listening to him. Though overall, KDH is doing a decent job in going objectively about his topics. At least those I watched.

[@MojoPenguin]

Il fait des videos à sensation pour vendre les produits de ses sponsors en gros.

[@DrewCreal]

Yoooo! Thanks for making this video. When I saw KDH's video I was trying to wrap my head around prisoners soldering amps and it literally made no sense LOL. This is a great channel. Subbed!

[@blueslawyer]

Thanks! We are digging into the story more and hopefully can provide additional context. Lynch made another comment that didn't really make his case any better.

[@ckhgator]

Good video, I found this enlightening and holistic

[@gabor222]

The first google search finds this: "Peavey has categorically denied using forced prison labour in the manufacture of its amplifiers." I couldn't find the original statement from Peavey's side but telling that they are not using FORCED prison labour makes the impression that they (or their vendors) could use not-forced prison labour (inmates who work on their own will to earn money).

[@tim6723-f4i]

I'm a bit shocked anyone would believe an amp manufacture would use prison labour to build their amps. There are 2 problems with prison labour: 1) The workers are unskilled 2) They don’t give a shit about the job they are doing Picking up litter on the side of the road is a great job for them - it takes no skill and it’s not the end of the world if they miss a piece. Building electronic equipment though, soldering circuit boards, using the correct components, etc. takes some skill and some care. The quality control problems Peavey would have would be enormous… assuming any of the amps actually worked at all. Also, the reputational damage to the Peavey brand would be catastrophic. Maybe Gibson used prison labour to put the binding on their Les Paul’s but the whole prison labour thing is obviously a urban myth.

[@gabor222]

As a technician I was working in a factory that was making cellphones / IT network appliances for the greatest brands and many more kinds of electronic goods. Most of the workers were unskilled and many of them were not giving a shit about the job because they were underpaid. QC and Debug / Rework requires the skills (but they are trying to make it with cheaper workforce anyway) and knowledge but it is only about the 10% of the employees. Such contract manufacturer companies willingly create processes to make building the products with the need of minimal amount of skilled people. So I think that it is possible to outsource a good amount of the work to prison workers with a couple of days training (for example soldering through-hole PCBs), it is just the question of logistics. This is one of the reasons I stopped working in this area and switched from electronics manufacturing to IT where trained people are more valued.

[@mikedr1549]

I'm certainly no lawyer, but I have broken the law (you know - speeding, run red lights, that one time I got drunk and REDACTED, etc) but KDH (while I feel compelled to watch all his videos) rubs me the wrong way. Anyways - using prison labor, in and of itself, if they did, doesn't have to result in poor quality instruments. Not that I own a Peavey, nor do I ever really desire to own a Peavey. I did own a Crate back in the 80's and I feel they should go to prison for selling me that horrible amp - and I'll be willing to go on the Record with KD"Geraldo"H if he wants to turn that rock over! Anyways - keep up the good work guys.

[@blueslawyer]

Thanks! I had a Crate half stack back in school and the cops definitely showed up to make it stop.

[@shorerocks]

I missed the correlation between poor quality and prison labour. To me, quality can be achieved anywhere, if you take the time and seriously do your QA.

[@Ottophil]

I hate KDH. So annoying

[@blueslawyer]

Hate is a strong word but you're welcome to your own opinions

[@slawoose2798]

This was a great video. I had watched the 2 KDH videos and had the same thoughts you had. There are some other videos that I disagreed with from him, but these 2 were the last straw for me so I unsubscribed from him.

[@blueslawyer]

Thank you! Comments like this make it all worthwhile.

[@scott6588]

Statutes aside, they didn't want to draw attention to the brand after the undercover boss drama. Would look like bullies, and just weighed George and KDH as a mosquito bite. Their profits are now higher than ever, and why rock the boat to further insist that a jaded former artist show some class. My biggest problem with KDH here, was him using the term slave labor, .17 cents an hour and children to prison stories to lure less intelligent followers into the idea of what he believes Peavey did. When in fact if a prison uses labor for private companies, that company has to pay minimum wage. The prison likely has exorbitant fees for each inmate as rent etc for working for that wage...but it isn't the .17 cents or whatever KDH said. Also "forced" or "slave" wouldn't be a factor, as every eligible inmate would line up for such jobs. You're not forcing any inmate to make 15 times what a farm job would pay. It's empty headed at best, and if anything a fantasy scenario from two people who have never been in a cell, but like to speak for people there. Most inmates will volunteer just to get out even to pick rocks. Anyway I think it destroys both their credibility. Basically asking people to burn their Peavey stuff all for a jaded has been, and a click baiter.

[@JohnvanCapel]

KDH is a drama-Tuber who revels in stirring up whichever hornet's nests he can find in the guitar world - and while some of those nests need a good stirring-up, see also Andertons/Victory Amps (which, not coincidentally, Lee Anderton came out of with his reputation mostly intact or even improved), a lot of them are just pointless drama.

[@blueslawyer]

Drama gets clicks.

[@scott6588]

I think everyone knew andertons was part of victory amps. I've seen a few videos where Lee said well leave victory out of this comparison because we're sort of biased. KDH just wanted them to tell everyone there wasn't a Santa. All the adults knew...but he wanted to get the children riled up. You know, the unwavering followers.

[@axe2Mummy]

I waa incarcerated in a Mississippi state prison from 88-97 and clearly remember working on peavey amps , specifically cabinets and tolex applications.

[@stuartangel8212]

For real?

[@ckhgator]

If you're for real, you should get in contact with Anna Wolfe from Mississippi Today.

[@UTubeHandlesSuck]

@@stuartangel8212 One look at the name "@Fukthepolice" and I'm thinking more like a for real troll.

[@frozendivots1564]

There are several former prisoners Saying they worked at Peavey. I’m assuming they are truthful.

[@ckhgator]

@@frozendivots1564 Where did you find that information?

[@MojoPenguin]

He has no issues selling anything from his sponsors, anything he does is for money alone

[@derekhand7904]

I think I’m the .01 subscriber I feel honored

[@blueslawyer]

We did it!

[@slawoose2798]

I think that the reasoning in the end of the first video KDH made about the accusation was a logical fallacy. He said if the claim was false then Peavy would have sued which is a false presupposition because there are many factors that play into it, it's not like the accusation had much traction until KDH made the video on it so it's possible they weren't even aware of the claim. I also thought it was wrong to call prison labor slavery, it felt like he was trying to virtue signal.

[@blueslawyer]

You could sue everyone, but you have to show damages.

[@dave5655]

I was hearing the “prison labor” thing back in the 90s. It’s certainly not new by any stretch.

[@SenseiKreese]

While I agree with your overall assessment, I think it's naive and a mistake to assume the state will always act in the state's best interest. There is a million examples of the state going against its own interest in order to pander to business interests who are the political donor class. The state goes against its own interest all the time. More tax cuts all the time for rich people and corporations, so state has to borrow more money to function - is just one shining example of the state irrationally going against its own interest... Because the state is made of people who often self-serve and do what their lobbyist donors want.

[@jdfolbre]

Mississippi is probably the poorest state in the Union. Of course they have lots of prisons. I live in a poor part of Tx, lots of prisons here.

[@rudycastillo6369]

well the triple x was made for george lynch and he backed out i heard maybe the deal went south and he was bitter

[@GuitarsZnuff]

Like your channel, guys, and I love hearing your take on this story. That being said, I think you are being a little too hard on the KDH video. He's a journalist reporting on a comment made by a pretty high profile guitar player discussing a pretty high profile amp builder. Does KDH need to confirm George's allegations to report it? You may disagree with his assumptions, but he is just reporting what he's observing with added commentary. He's also reporting on a rumor that many have players have discussed amongst themselves. I do think you both bring up a valid point that this claim didn't deserve legal action from Peavey though.

[@blueslawyer]

Thanks for the comment! The Lynch comments are beyond the statute of limitations, so unless he makes some new statements, Peavey can't do anything. There's some good stuff that KDH does (as we noted), but on this topic, we have 2 videos by KDH: one where he had 5 minutes of no evidence and then another video where he realized he missed a response from Peavey when he was making the first video. Anyway, I think the key thing is we shouldn't believe every KZbin creator, Facebook commenter, Reddit poster, etc has to say. Also, creators with large followings need to be responsible with what they say or present because many people will run with everything they say. Thanks again and I hope you have more questions, comments, and ideas going forward!

[@UTubeHandlesSuck]

Sounds sort of like he's doing the Tucker Carlson to me. A little rumor, a little sensationalism, and a lot of "Hey, I'm just asking questions here!." I would say that reporting on utter rumor while repeatedly admitting you've got ZERO EVIDENCE just screams about chasing clicks more than chasing accuracy.

[@DrKevGuitar]

Journalist? For real? Note he stated there was no evidence and he himself could not find any. No real journalist would continue past that point.

[@blueslawyer]

@@DrKevGuitar KDH should have tabled the video until he had evidence. I couldn't believe it either.

[@DrKevGuitar]

@@blueslawyer No reason he would do that. He's the shock jock of the KZbin Guitar world.

[@SteamvilleQuintet]

I have caught companies hiring prison inmates under the guise of training for a rehabilitated future life.

[@blueslawyer]

Fair comparison to internships as well. Feel free to email us details of your work and we can discuss.

[@harryfraser251]

The part from 8:00 about splitting manufacturing between China and Meridian *is* exactly what Peavey was doing for years. A lot of companies split manufacturing for different lines. I don't think your arguments conclusively show that they definitely didn't use prison labour at all. Weird logic.

[@blueslawyer]

I would argue we successfully didn't prove that they did anything as much as KDH proved they did

[@harryfraser251]

@@blueslawyer yeah I don't think he did at all. I think I was thrown off by your quite definitive closing statement and some of the arguments. Not all though.

[@andrewsallee6044]

I don't think this affects your argument, but I believe your analysis of the economics of prison labor is incorrect. It is true that it would not make sense to build prisons for the purpose of using prisoner labor, but governments have other motives for building prisons. (That would probably be a more interesting argument.). So once you use those motives to make the costs of running the prison external to the issue of prison labor, it may make economic sense to use prison labor for other purposes. For all the trolls... please note that I am discussing the economics of the issue, not the ethics.

[@blueslawyer]

That's fair, I'm just the simple construction worker one. Matt's the law talking guy.

[@shorerocks]

Hm. Mind you, I have no opinion nor do I care if Peavey was / is / will use prison labor or George Lynch is right. None of my business. What gets to me is your reasoning. Your opening arguments to insinuate that these claims are "probably" false, are: #1 There are just 12k views of the original video; #2 the channel has only 412 subs; and #3 an (admittedly world-class) guitar player talking - very open, candidly - about negative experiences with his singers etc. You seriously think there is a correlation between #1 and #2 and the fact someone in such a video might say something that is truthful? And regarding #3, for you someone "who just says things (...) should not be taken at face value". Aha. Because even if that someone has a history of talking openly about stuff on his mind (and not necessarily being correct) ...this is your argument against expecting anything from what he is saying to be what you consider the truth? Honestly, I don't follow.

[@blueslawyer]

It's not my intent to prove Peavey didn't do anything, just that KDH didn't do enough to result in a video about how he thinks they did. The "just asking questions" and "people are talking about" stuff as evidence is weak.

[@shorerocks]

@@blueslawyer Thx for the response. Does not answer any of my problems I have with the argumentation. Let me add for context. I am just a guitar player from Germany and not affiliated to KDH or anyone, ha ha. What I like and respect about his videos is that he tries to be objective about what he found out. I never had the impression he is giving "evidence", like "proving in court" evidence. But that's just me. Let me finish be saying I am happy he is doing what he is doing. It is up to us to make up our own mind, or read more about it. Cheers!

[@blueslawyer]

@@shorerocks fair! As a simple American construction professional guitar player music producer KZbin person, I get frustrated by the Tucker Carlson style "ask questions you decide" that many less sophisticated Americans run with as facts. You're good though! :) thanks for hanging out and don't be a stranger.

[@rkk578]

KDH is wrong in many things he reports about. His lack of knowledge shows time to time and presents assumptions as facts, not to mention his tendency to misrepresent information to back up his theories.

[@GuitarsZnuff]

Name one time.

[@rkk578]

@@GuitarsZnuff 1. Champan guitars accounts: He used the abbreviated accounts which only have the balance sheet on it. He also mistook the equity for cash. More importantly, the balance sheet actually backed Chapman's claim about the US expansion (large stock and trade creditor levels). 2. Peavey slave labour: He misrepresented the court case regarding the detention of kids in school to support his narrative. He "forgot" to mention the outcome of the court case, because it wasn't dramatic enough. 3. Peavey slave labour: He has shown no evidence to back his claims, apart from a statement from Lynch in an interview. Yet in his video he suggests that the company uses slave labour. Also he asks the company for proof that they don't use slave labour, which is a legal nonsense. Not to mention that the burden of proof is with him 4. Peavey lack of response: He gave less than a week for a multinational company to reply to his serious accusations in the middle of summer holidays. Anyone who worked at a company of this size knows that it takes time for response because of the teams (compliance, legal, communications) it has to go through. Yet he presented this if Peavey didn't want to reply. 5. Victory amps: He completely omitted the fact that if a partnership has an agreement, that document governs the partnership, not the partnership act, so it can happen that Lee Anderton tells the truth when he talks about his involvement in the business. 6. Victory amps: The ASA didn't "fine" Lee Anderton. The ASA website has got no ruling regarding him and it is almost October. 7. ESP: He made claims without knowing what is in the dealership agreement. He also assumed that the agreement will be governed by the law of the state in which Condro guitars are (this is not necessarily the case). He also completely ignored that ESP apparently needs a store front from their dealers. He also completely ignored the sentence from Condro where he said that these companies technically didn't have to help him (i e.: didn't have to fulfill the orders). He didn't question this at all And these points are just what I remember in general. The guy loves to present hearsay and half truths as facts and fill the gap with his assumptions and imagination. His lack of legal and financial knowledge is really showing in these videos.

[@sisajtegabre]

@@GuitarsZnuff As you hear about Chapman. About strings. Attacking HB guitars etc and in all that time He support Ormsby guitars a dude who is copycat and His guitars are far far from great but..

[@sisajtegabre]

​@@rkk578 So truth. But it an ear of YT were people wich to get a lot of subs, so drama made on assumptions works great.

[@sisajtegabre]

@@GuitarsZnuff Just in order to fer His video about Rick Beato book was OK, that book cost a lot and i know some professors who think there are better books. I know for a few books that are IMHO better as well and they cost like max 20$. Actually the best guitar encyclopedias i know about were free of charge for a long time.

[@vintagepipesnightmares]

So you never heard about corruption or law breaking. Got it👍