Pentair Intelliflo VS Pool Pump Repair Part 2

[@stephenbeech7137]

Hey, Tony Stark.. that was definitely “ the most detailed and comprehensive technical analysis of a capacitor in a pool pump..” I have ever seen. Good job and thanks for educating the simpletons like me. I have 2 of these and what a PitA they have become. Although they last 5-7 years under good conditions, something more mechanical is definitely preferable for its longevity, and repairability. Good job Batman.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Yeah, I was not happy with this. Granted, If it was modular and they hit you up with 50 or 100 dollars to swap a section based on a reliable POST code I would not complain. This unit does not do that though....

[@danitsjustdan]

Very much appreciate this. Just opened up my in-law’s pump thinking I could just change a capacitor and get it going when I found this board design. You just saved me a lot of time troubleshooting. Thank you!

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Glad I could help

[@jimmcc2543]

Pentair calls that the drive unit. I had to replace mine after during a storm I had an electrical surge. The unit was almost $700 dollars. At least you showed how to replace the bearings which was great for me.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

That drive unit cost 30% more than my replacement hayward pump with the same functionality, which has now been running flawess for years, I never looked back.

[@davidg.9942]

you are my savior,,,,have exactly same pump from 2012 and thanks to your very thorough explanation I either have to get a new drive or complete new pump - not much difference in price,,,, however the wise thing is to get pump with simpler design,,,,,greed is something I am not willing to support in any way,,,,,

[@retrotechandelectronics]

I will be posting a video shortly that illustrates what a truly serviceable pump looks like.

[@user-eb4iq2jw3y]

Thank you. I got an alarm F90053 and was told by two different pool repair guys that it was the driver. Before spending $800 on a new one, I called Pentair and got the same answer. Sooo, I ordered a new one, installed & programmed it and Guess what? Same damn alarm code. It’s too late in the day to call Pentair, but I seriously pissed off. Thanks again for taking the time to break it all down. Bill

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Glad I could help. I believe the parts for this are ridiculous. Non modular and designed to fail. Ive moved to a different pump. No regrets.

[@archiepulls4704]

This is truly appreciative comment about your video I've been in the pool business for over 35 years and I agree with your assessment about pentair equipment better to part with all their products completely Hayward products are substantially easier to troubleshoot and repair.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

I was just amazed how they went out of their way to ensure nothing can ever be fixed.

[@edmoncayo52]

Great trouble shooting lesson, profoundly appreciate your thoughtfulness and suggestion. Thank you

[@jeffs7267]

Excellent excellent excellent video! I feel the exact same way about Pentair-I have had 5 sets of their garbage pool lights that overheat and die in one season that I found another brand. I think if we were neighbors we would be good friends!

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Penteir lost my vote after this incident, my hayward has been problem free ever since.

[@fabricator3dprinting440]

I can show how to remove the pcb board quickly and without causing damage if anyone is interested. I will post a video. I developed the technique after having the same issues shown in this video.

[@iutub619]

That would be great

[@AlexeyKravtsov]

did you have a chance to make that video?

[@jimgreen4504]

We now know what Christopher Walken does in his spare time 😆 You two must be from the same town. . Outstanding videos. Subbed

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@ericdalvandi5527]

good video, absolutely true, I hate those companies dong this kind of tricks to sale more, it happened to me twice, and now the third time , I wish during last 2 times I would have one and bought a different brand of Pump instead of just buying the drive assembly - which I'm going to do it this time. thanks Retro Tech & Electronics.

[@christoube]

thanks for the videos. i was hoping for a happy ending as i have the same pump and the same alarm. so - what did you replace it with?

[@retrotechandelectronics]

A Hayward and never looked back.

[@bobschneider4663]

I have a quick question, if you reverse the two red wires on the back of the board, would you reverse the rotation of this motor? I have reversed the rotation by reversing the red and black wire on the top of the motor, but I can not get the clips out to permanently change and put the controller back on. Thank you Bob

[@JeffMcNeal]

Thank you for this... Been having a problem with my pump and the first thing I'm going to check is the power connection, because moving the cable slightly sent me into a power loss warning on the LCD screen. My pump has been tripping the circuit breaker recently, but erratically so. If it isn't a loose power connection, then I will likely have to replace the drive unit. I benefited greatly from your troubleshooting and experience. Thank you. You said you were so disgusted that you would up buying a different mfg pump. Vari-speed, I am assuming? What did you end up going with if you don't mind my asking?

[@kevinnakano4823]

Do you recall which side had the spring washer? I can't remember what side this came from. I think it was on the side closest to the impeller. I was hoping to see it in the video. Thanks.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

No its been a while, but there are explosion diagrams online.

[@Cyanmauve]

Thanks very much for the video and through testing. Just had this pump die on me. Suspect your theory regarding thermal cycling and overheating is correct regarding the frequency converter. With my particular unit, I heard a loud pop when the motor gave up the ghost and suspect a cap blew. The control board portion was actually blown up and out of the case...which I can only imagine occurring if a cap blew. Pump failed during the middle of the afternoon in the Texas summer - currently its 103 degrees air temperature. Motor in the shade, but still suspect heat related. I'll be stuck replacing the unit, and like you, am wary about spending $500 or more dollars on a drive unit that would not come with a warranty vs. replacing the entire pump. Shame...like yours suspect the motor is just fine....

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Designed to be unrepairable only replaceable. I never bought it again.

[@boomskis4926]

I’m a pool boy in Hawaii. I just learned a lot from you thank you 😁

[@AaronLoveq]

holy crap will you do stuff for me? Love the relentlessness like Freddy Krueger goes Pentair. Impressive!

[@retrotechandelectronics]

No. But glad you enjoyed the video

[@mikekrogh5951]

Wow! You are an Excellent teacher and clear professional! Thank you! However, I can't get passed the 1996 green concert pass... has that come off yet?! 🙂 Just having fun with ya!

[@boomskis4926]

What did you replace it with tho? I’m guessing whatever it is you won’t be able to repair it either. Or am I wrong? It’s probably a pretty standard thing in the pump biz to make it impossible to repair.

[@eme4289]

How do these variable pumps work? Are they 3 phase motors being run by a electronic speed controller? Or are they just regular single phase motors with a start winding like the ones that come on regular pool pumps, but with the added controller that does all the variable speed magic?

[@retrotechandelectronics]

The controller does all of the magic.... but its replacement incurs most of the cost of the unit.

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

It's a VFD with some added features driving a 3 phase TEFC motor.

[@henryg2920]

That was a superb and very detailed analysis. Appreciate it 👍🏻

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Glad you found it helpful.

[@williamg209]

Which pump did you go with instead and are you happy with it?

[@retrotechandelectronics]

The Hayward as seen in my other videos, no regrets other than I didnt get that one first,

[@patrickhayes3099]

Damn! I have a pump with a good controller, most of the rest is bad! I wish I could buy some of the parts from you!

[@christoube]

what kind of controller do you have?

[@Billymons]

Let me ask you this. I have the same pump. If my drive takes a crap could I just remove the drive portion and connect my line voltage directly to the pump? Then it would just run all the time at the pumps specs? At work when a VFD dies we just bug the line voltage to the motor and it just starts balls out until we get a drive. Thanks.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

I'm sure its possible, there is nothing special about the motor itself. I wouldn't outright recommend it though.

[@daneli5214]

yes I want to know also... lol

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

@@daneli5214 Absolutely not, this is a 3 phase motor...

[@justinvisser7609]

I have the exact issue and pump in your videos. Out of curiosity, which pump did you end up replacing it with?

[@retrotechandelectronics]

I ended up replacing it because the cost of the parts was nearly the cost of a new pump. I went with another company.

[@christoube]

@@retrotechandelectronics which company? and are you happy with that company?

[@retrotechandelectronics]

@@christoube a Hayward and never looked back as demonstrated in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6aWaoine8p3Z9U

[@christoube]

@@retrotechandelectronics do you have a video about the hayward install? and how much better it is than the pentair? i am trying to decide what to replace my intelliflo with...

[@retrotechandelectronics]

@@christoube I do as part or a reinstall when I redid the patio. It’s in my back catalogue sonewhere

[@arthurvin2937]

I thought this is some kind of DC pulse motor, because there's no visible start/run capacitor, and the granular speed control it allows. Turns out this is a typical AC 3 phase inductive motor? Or what it is? How do they achieve such silent operation and speed control? Btw, what's that accent? Australian? I like it.

[@arthurvin2937]

Ha, it's a synchronous frequency controlled 3 phase squirrel type inductive motor. That's what it is right?

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Haha You're funny.... I've been called many things.... Never been called Australian. AC 3 phase.... Caps are in the Control unit.

[@arthurvin2937]

@@retrotechandelectronics So, any clue what could be inside that metal container except that it is just frequency converter? I would just take a dremel and cut it open to see what they are trying to hide in there.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

@@arthurvin2937 You can pull it up online without the sink on it, its just the converter.

[@arthurvin2937]

@@david-rh5uc Unless you have 3 phase power in your home that would be bad idea. The controller unit isn't anything fancy but just VFD - Variable Frequency Drive, which takes single phase 240v AC > rectifies it to DC > converts it back to somewhat fake sine AC 3-phase power by means of DC Pulse Width Modulation technique using transistors. The granular RPM adjustment is achieved by making pulse width longer or shorter. The motor itself is off the shelf 3-phase induction motor and it's pretty dumb to notice sine imperfections. Technically you could run it off single phase 240v AC power on single winding with run capacitor but its characteristics would dramatically suffer - potential overheat, twice less horse power, poor energy efficiency and noisy operation. However, you can safely hook it up to off the shelf VFD for 50 bucka from Aliexpress and it will operate just as good as the OEM unit.

[@jeffchapman1489]

Excellent investigative work!

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Thanks.

[@iChris023]

Anyone know where to find these bearings? NSK 6305DU and NSK 6205DU????

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Google. Or eBay and Amazon

[@iChris023]

@@retrotechandelectronics they sure are hard to find in the states. I ended up having to import them from England.

[@greenbook67]

Did you consider a motor with a panel mount VFD? If not, why not?

[@retrotechandelectronics]

When you get into the current requirements for the VFD needed, outdoor rated enclosure, and then meshed to existing power supplied from mains, It rivals that of a finished unit. Plus you loose all of the software features you come to expect from a pool pump such as multi speed, schedule and prime, etc etc

[@johnburke4852]

I have a similar issue, would replacing the control unit be a possible solution? Forgive me if that’s a stupid question, I’m far from having your level of knowledge on these types of things.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Yes, but it cost almost the price of the whole unit.

[@jimw125]

My superflow motor old bearing was a 6203, but a new 6203 won't fit on. The shaft is clean. I swear both bearings read 6203. In fact I got four new bearings and all are too small for the rear shaft although they fit the front nicely. What to do? There was a noticeable difference in the size of the bearing inner races, I think .62" for the new and .635 for the old. Makes no sense to me.

[@jamesw4445]

Some motors have two different size bearings, like one is 6203 and the other is 6204.

[@casvip1]

The rate of failure on those units is extremely low compared to others. One call to a pool professional and you would have known what that code was and how to fix it. I appreciate you taking me pump apart like that very interesting.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Between the two videos, at the time the motor was determined to be free spinning, before it was even opened, it was already determined to be an electronic issue. The cost for parts replacement had already been assessed. Everything further on was simply for demonstration purposes if it was a motor bearing issue.

[@toby2015]

@@retrotechandelectronics ok

[@cbrduck7846]

I have the Hayward Ecostar and they manufacture the driver board the same way as this one. With some finessing though it is removable to replace the IC module, but that may not be the only component failure. When mine went the module virtually explode and damaged the board as well. I'm guessing a power surge.

[@LuisGonzalez-tx7tf]

Question? How I can change the direction on this particular motor

[@cbrduck7846]

@@LuisGonzalez-tx7tf You'd need a stepper controller, I'd imagine. Why would you need to do that?

[@daverose8772]

Great test equipment...Probably it's a MOSFET speed controller module. They get very hot during high loads and start up cycles. If it was my pool, I would buy a standard non-electronic pump system replacement with a electronic torque timer. With spikes, transients, corona effect, skin effect and power surges, not to mention highly corrosive pool chems, simple is better.....,

[@rsanchez9192]

What about just applying full voltage to the pump motor to run it at full speed and eliminate motor from control board first. I was also thinking that the pump ceramic bearing my have gotten scorched as they do so many times and should be replaced first. Just additional personal experience input.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

This is true If you had a supply to support the current. You cant just plug the motor into a wall.

[@Евгений_Тюмень]

имею такой насос, сгорел блок управления. вопрос. как его можно запустить напрямую к двигателю без модуля. желательно схему. I have such a pump, the control unit burned down. question. how it can be run directly to the engine without the module. preferably a diagram.

[@barryg41]

Same here, thanks for tearing it apart.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

No worries, I had fun doing it.

[@larrykielasa9204]

I found Danfoss. They are in Germany and make a lot of pumps, etc. and power controls. However, they are all custom parts made for OEM’s. Just to keep you from being able to fix it. Generally “energy efficient” equipment is NOT cost efficient to the consumer. It is a POS that I wish I had not purchased.

[@gsegallis]

I feel your pain. I have the same pump and know I will be just as pissed when it finally dies and I can't fix it due to their manufacturing. This is one of the most entertaining videos that didn't actually show me how to fix the thing. 😉 I'm guessing with your expertise you could probably build your own controller. I would help fund the kickstarter for somebody that built one of these for the hundred bucks it should actually cost. 😀

[@retrotechandelectronics]

It sounds like an interesting concept indeed, but 99% of folks who maintain pools are non-technical, I would not see a large demand for a single fit model of an arduino based controller when you consider the time that goes into it, the need for a motor purchase and the expected return.

[@gsegallis]

@@retrotechandelectronics My $400 oven controller was the first time I thought about an aftermarket replacement. $0.50 cap blew and the replacement controller from Kitchenaid cost me $400. I was actually going to build my own with a YoYo Controller and tablet as touch screen if it failed again. My friend actual did replace his Pentair controller for $400, so it looks like there is some market for DIYers. The ultimate solution, IMHO, is a generic controller that can function as an oven controller or a pool pump controller or washing machine, or dishwasher or A/C for that matter. They all have a dozen sensors, and probably half as many high voltage relays/triacs. One hardware module and SW running on a smartphone can make it do whatever needs to be done. Literally a $50 Raspberry Pi with a few peripherals could do all the heavy lifting. Then freeware SW makes it function as needed. Yes, I can dream. :-)

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Tied to that controller was also some serious current requirements for the motor, this aspect would not be one size fits all and would add to the cost/complexity as it would be something specifically required to drive motors/pumps

[@andyhernandez7048]

@@retrotechandelectronics hello friend a query. If the electronic component no longer works for me, I could use the pump without the electronic system, just connecting an external layer to the pump motor.

[@barryg41]

Every body has a genrad from the fifties to check capacitors.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Came with the phone book and the geiger counter.

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

I mean, you could have easily desoldered those few connections with a desoldering gun or some desoldering wick, or even compressed air is a good trick to blow the molten solder right out of there assuming you don't have access to a $3 desoldering pump.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

There is clearly two different types of solder on that board, one with a high lead content, and one with no lead and an extremely high melting point just to prevent this from happening.

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

@@retrotechandelectronics You tried a high wattage iron? Usually it's just the huge thermal mass plus the epoxy is also a somewhat effective heat sink material.

[@JustinAlexanderBell]

I find it very unlikely they used a special solder alloy seen as how now due to ROHS they are almost all SAC alloy unless there's an exemption like aerospace etc.

[@wilfredoportillo2551]

What brand did you choose?

[@retrotechandelectronics]

I went with Hayward. Im very happy with it.

[@KyleLasVegas1]

Thanks for the video. Interesting for a guy who knows very little about all this but I enjoy seeing how things work. Hope your Hayward works ok but I have had the ecostar for about 5 years and won't purchase another one. (I'm looking for a new pump right now) It saved on the electric bill but without boring you with all the details, I've had the same bad experience and just about all the reviewers on Amazon. Not worth the $$ and has a very short life span. At least if yours tanks you have the knowledge, tools and skill to fix it. If you could fix them at a reasonable price you could open a business and make serious bank! Thanks again.

[@seoulbrooks]

@@KyleLasVegas1 Hayward has very poor reliability. Check any honest blog....

[@SuperAWaC]

when it comes to dealing with motors that have brainboxes attached, i always assume it's the brainbox first

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Turns out, you were right.

[@jonsteele2251]

Thank you for the 2nd video

[@retrotechandelectronics]

No problem

[@michaelteague9230]

Dude, you’re hilarious! Great video!

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Hey, thanks!

[@larrykielasa9204]

I found Danfoss. They are in Germany and make a lot of pumps, etc. and power controls. However, they are all custom parts made for OEM’s. Jus t to keep you from being able to fix it. Generally “energy efficient” equipment is NOT cost efficient to the consumer. It is a POS that I wish I had not purchased.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

I agree.

[@patrickhayes3099]

Planned obsolescence bro. It is effed up. Other than that, I really like the Pentair products.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Caps have a lifespan and it should have been designed so that filter caps could be replaced like previous models.

[@utoopuser]

I'm working presently on a friends pentair VS pump that quit. (A BIG bucks POS). Can't even determine what model parts to order because they made changes like every year. (another bad sign weather they know what they are doing... Or is it planned obsolescence?) Question: the motor seems to be be a regular 220 vac motor with tree connections. Can you provide the pin out for this motor so one can test it with external AC capacitors and 220 vac? BTW: For those who are not up to this "OJT" : www.ebay.com/itm/144113682044?hash=item218dd8467c:g:nYgAAOSwqyFfZ9uV The whole kittenkaboodle for less than pentair replacement part which will surely fail again in time.

[@jaimecastaneda5182]

Agree

[@nkemonyia9543]

Great job

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Thanks!

[@kennethholland8297]

So you assume the other brands don't do the same and bash the Pentair. You also didn't test any of the winding's for opens or shorts.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

This video wasn't about other brands. If you did your homework you would know that pentair had for a long time allowed for the service of these components..... until they didn't.

[@kennethholland8297]

@@retrotechandelectronics You bash them and go to a different product that may be doing the same thing. I find that that is a common practice to use epoxy on boards. It makes techs like us go nuts but you deal with it. I see now that you did test the winding's you call the coil. I'm sorry I missed that. It is a hobby now but I owned a shop repairing amateur radio's. What product did you go with? Our pool is being put in as we speak. Thanks. Didn't mean any disrespect.

[@SEVENofTHEM]

Awesome video.

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Thanks!

[@daneli5214]

GREAT JOB.....

[@retrotechandelectronics]

Thank you.

[@WallStreet749]

If the race is not scared Id just soak it in gasoline and repack it with new grease the bearing could most likely be save

[@retrotechandelectronics]

At the time, every indication showed no major bearing issues. I had only removed the bearings in the video as a demonstration but had no need to do so.

[@daverose8772]

The bearings are 13.00 bucks....a pair....

[@ausseamore8386]

👏👏👍

[@retrotechandelectronics]

👍