Pentair SuperFlo VS Compared To Hayward Super Pump VS

From www.swimmingpo... - See how the Pentair SuperFlo VS (342001) and the Hayward Super Pump VS (SP2603VSP) compare to eachother when run on the same test lab plumbing system. Each pump was powered by 240 volts, set up using a 2" PVC plumbing system with one suction and return and a Hayward 150 square foot cartridge filter. Flow rate and power consumption are compared and monitored through a digital flow meter and an external wattage meter.
#poolpump #comparison #swimmingpoolsteve

[@DavidKasan]

Have you ever done a comparison of equal flows compared to watts used, instead of equal speeds compared to watts used? I was really surprised to see that the Hayward was so much more efficient with power at 750 RPM, but then I did the math and realized that is was also 24% less efficient in flow than the Pentair. It made me wonder at what RPM the Pentair would produce only 17 GPM and what the resulting wattage would be. If I am missing something with my thinking, please feel free to advise. Thank you for all the great info, I am studying your videos and website like I am in school.

[@yoster77]

It's interesting how these pumps act differently in different situations/installations. Not the same exact pump, but my Pentair VSF will flow 23 GPM at 750RPM, pulling only 37 watts. What's really interesting is, increasing to 1000 rpm only gets me to 24gpm, but then pulls 84 watts. I've learned to "play around" with different settings to find that sweet-spot in GPM/RPM/Watts for each of my settings. You can really save some electricity/money this way!

[@cartracer64]

good video what hp were these rated at? did you declare a winner? would flow gpm be lower or higher with 1.5 dia tubing?? both seemed loud at max rpm

[@geefim2144]

Installing a tri star where a intelliflo was. How off will the plumbing be

[@kaybee9909]

This Set Up. Are You sponsored by any Companies???

[@deharts4]

Question: Are there any drawbacks of running a variable speed pump on a DE filter system? Will the earth not stick to the membrane at low circulation periods?

[@seephor]

The DE sticks to the grids so I don't think this will be a problem. Maybe it would be a good idea to run at full speed when you first add DE to ensure you get even coverage but it will eventually not matter.

[@jimepifano3570]

Not much help. We're you looking at kw use vs flow rate or speed. At least you should have charted the data. Then some could make some conclusions on pawer consumption vs speed or flow rate

[@alexandrewz4598]

So which do you recommend for a 30x15 pool might add a spa

[@donvape336]

Wow, I have Hayward 950 vsp I had to do a warranty motor unit replacement after 19 months. I ran it 24 hrs. I don't know if that was the issue that caused the failure or not. I know the new unit dropped my pressure down 12 lbs at high speed from 30 to 18. Definitely in issue with that pump unit. It's nice to know a ballpark what the gpm are. I removed 24 hour filtering. I guess I'll see how it goes.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

24 hour operation is NOT a problem for this pump or any pool pump. Too bad about the failure but not attributed to continuous operation.

[@lhelmonds]

Super helpful- thanks Steve! Would love to see if you have been able to determine any reliability comparison data.

[@ericsullivan9532]

Eye opening comparison. A manager at Leslie Pool Store told me that Hayward is now making their variable speed pumps (jvs270s). I'd like to see compared to the 2.7 TriStar

[@jonahryan1395]

I take care of pools all day long, i love the pentair vs , i hate the hayward vs. i think they seem to sound like their always struggling and hard to prime. The pentair always going strong and gets prime quick

[@grassthief1280]

Nice 👍 steve informative as always

[@kentjax3622]

I had both pumps and Hayward was the superior pump. Hayward ran cheaper and quieter when equally analyzed.

[@krehbein]

Interesting side by side of two popular vs pumps. Didn’t Hayward have some reliability problems not too long ago? Reading where some people have issues after a year or two.

[@AA-ih6kt]

vs superflo..error 19.. any ideas? its a new one...1 season old...

[@adamhaut6859]

Thanks for the info Steve. Getting a Hayward SuperFlow installed soon. Speculating I can run it 8 hours a day, low and slow, at 25 gpm and get three turnovers while sipping watts.

[@michaelknight3314]

How many gal 25gpm x 8hrs 3 turn overs

[@Rob...]

my hayard runs at 1985w at max speed, pretty much same size pool i wonder why its so much higher

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Which pump do you have? This is the 230v super pump VS SP2603VSP which has a 1.5hp (1.65thp) motor. Based on your power specs I might guess you have the Trisstar VS 1.85 hp (SP3202VSP / SP32900VSP). Also worth noting is that the resistance to flow in your system will also change the power consumption and the flow rate.

[@johnborton4522]

Hi Steve -- great comparison. Fellow geek here. Your remote readout in the bottom left has a KWh readout. Oddly enough (to me) this readout does't really vary with pump speed or with watts used. Would you mind telling me what that value is representing? Also, I'm not sure what monitoring arrangement you are using, but does the wattage shown take the shown power factor into account? The Hayward has abysmal PF compared to the Pentair and yet the watts are not that far off at the same GPM. If the PF isn't taken into account, this would mean the Pentair is far more efficient overall. Now I realize that the utility company doesn't worry about PF in residential accounts, but in a commercial account low PF will trigger surcharges. Thanks JB

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Hi JB, interestingly the unit measures power factor in real time which is the middle number on the right. The bottom number in kWh which does not change is measuring total power consumption like an odometer which is why it only moves slowly. You only see the system running for a moment.

[@johnborton4522]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve Now I understand the KWh. Thanks. I'm an engineer for a commercial user (where a low PF will get me dinged) so I'm still interested in whether the real-time current draw (in watts) takes the PF number into account or not. In other words, the KVA (which would be the watts / the PF) would be a ton higher for the Pentair if that math has not already been done in your monitoring system. Residential users get billed by the KWh, while big commercial users get effectively billed by KVA. Thanks so much for the informative response and if I learn anything you might be interested in in my own tests I'll let you know. Once I decide on which pump I'm going to use I will have 520 of these pumps in use 24/7/365 in an agriculture application. This large usage is why I'm digging so deep in efficiency differences. JB

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

It appears that the wattage takes the power factor into consideration, but the current draw in amps does not. At times when the superflo is drawing 1 amp the wattage should be reading 235v (the voltage reading) but the power factor at .55 means the actual wattage is only 135 ish, so power factor has to be considered. I barely understand the service factor stuff if I am honest. I am technologist level with electronics at best so if I am not understanding the power factor reading relative to the wattage display please let me know. Also, both Hayward and Pentair have more premiere pumps. These are their more entry level pumps. I am not sure of your use but if I needed volumes like this I would probably be looking at the flagship products from each brand. That would be Intelliflo from Pentair, currently model # 011056. 011028 also would work and is variable speed, not variable flow like the 011056. You can also look at the Hayward Tristar950 which is the comparable size and model to the Intelliflo. SP3206VSP is the open line product number and SP32950VSP is the dealer protected version.

[@johnborton4522]

@@Swimmingpoolsteve You are correct now that I look at it closer -- I hadn't paid any attention to the amperage readout but clearly the PF is included in the watts and not the amps now that I do that math. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not an EE myself (I'm a mechanical engineer), so like you I'm not the expert on the power factor angles, but I'm being forced to learn. Just for my own education, what sort of power monitor are we looking at in this video? Are there clamps on the power input lines to feed the readout or is it talking via network cable to the VFDs on the pumps? Whatever that is I'm going to need to get one. I had previously looked at the Intelliflo (and the Hayward equivalent), but the WEF on both of those are dramatically lower than on the SuperFlo VS that you have here (~7 vs ~10). I'm struggling to understand why that would be given they are newer technology. VFDs are tricky in that it takes just the right match with the motor or your PF goes way off at medium to low speeds. Hard to believe these two large companies couldn't have matched things up properly, but their own specs show the much degraded WEF rating on those latest units. Thanks again for the informative exchange. Love your work.

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

I am pretty sure the larger HP of the flagship pumps accounts for the lower WEF ratings. The WEF uses a range of RPM but 3450 with these pumps uses so much power that is skews the rest of the WEF rating versus a smaller pump. Note that max efficient flow rate is 6 fps which is like 65 gpm in 2" pvc pipe. So a 3hp pump is deep into inefficient water velocity, where smaller pumps are able to run a broader rpm range while under 6fps water velocity. WEF is not perfect in this regard.

[@johnm.peterson1095]

are they both 3 hp?

[@Swimmingpoolsteve]

Neither are 3hp. They are both 1.5hp with the Hayward being 1.65thp and the pentair being 2.2thp

[@funlovingJohn]

not a fare comparison Pentair is 1/2 HP bigger.