People Are Mad at Me for This Controversial Statement

[@TheMinimalists]

Do you think hoarding is a mental disorder?

[@cimmerianbloke8421]

I think the sheer amount of outrage you sparked underlines how far we've gone into PCness. People would rather whine than engage into a decent and honest conversation that could prove them wrong. Sad world...

[@carochan86]

Looks like I'm 2013 hoarding got classified as its own disorder. They also say 75% also have other conditions too. But hoarding is also a symptom of OCD and dementia.

[@rickyiglesias5384]

Yup.

[@universaltruth2025]

Yes. I do think it’s similar to having ocd. Perhaps its a combination of adhd AND ocd.

[@Shiryone]

Yes, it's a defined disorder and the opposite of spartanism.

[@armored-clown]

Hoarding is absolutely a mental illness. And there are so many people undiagnosed with hoarding disorders of varying degrees.

[@ChristysChannelYall]

I have diagnosed ADHD and I know I’m a hot mess 😂. I know I talk to much and am all over the place. I manage my home by making it very very minimal. You all and Joshua Becker have helped me so much. I don’t take meds. I don’t want to so keeping “stuff” to a major minimum helps me function well!

[@Iquey]

It's ok to take meds if at some point you feel like you need them, but I'm glad you have found a way to make the low-stuff lifestyle work out for you!

[@atomicfoxtoast647]

If you made pancakes with concrete mix, told yourself they were “real pancakes” and ate them, eventually you’d have negative health effects. If you have a hoarding problem, and say it’s just a different way to live that’s totally healthy, eventually you’ll manifest the negative effects of that environment you have built around you. If you can’t call out an issue, you can never fix the underlying problems, and at first it may not be a big deal, but 30 concrete pancakes in, you won’t have any teeth left, and 300,000 items later, you won’t have any peace left.

[@therealjenniferrr]

How about those people who claim cauliflower is pizza/bread/rice/chicken/etc. Just no. lol

[@atomicfoxtoast647]

@@therealjenniferrr 🤣 A valid example

[@cassandraknight8804]

Interesting

[@maggiecamperlengo6734]

We live in a world where you can’t say anything without offending someone… it’s gotten so prevalent it’s meaningless. To each his own, but you are 100% correct in calling out hoarding and our obsession to fill the empty spaces in our souls with stuff as a problem. It’s easier to live in denial and just buy more and then call you guys out as the meanies for holding up the mirror. I thank you for helping me and so so many others try to navigate out of our messes… (you can sometimes be a little pretentious and I don’t agree with everything you say but that’s up to me to sort … keep doing your thing 👍🏽)

[@terywetherlow7970]

To each their own is correct. Hoarders aren't mowing people over in Chicago....

[@maggiecamperlengo6734]

True, it’s only themselves and the people that love them they hurt .. it’s hard work to change and grow but make no mistake, this isn’t a victimless issue

[@livelovemaria]

I really liked the point T.K. made at the end. Why are we giving so much more energy to things we dislike than to celebrating the things we love? Also, I agree that the nuance made all the difference.

[@PrestoJacobson]

To improve our world. Although in this case, it sounds like many had a nerve struck. For this situation, maybe it's just ego/defensive auto actions.

[@therealjenniferrr]

Personally I think awareness is important. A lot of people don't realize they are doing the things that they are doing and/or why.

[@Calvotribe]

In today’s world there are a lot of mental illnesses that the world wants to call normal. People no longer want to admit their problems because they don’t want to do the hard work and change. Everything wrong is everyone else’s fault not your own. Years later these same people that thought I don’t need to change-there’s nothing wrong with me, end up worse-alone, unhappy and unhealthy. You were not wrong here, just understand that this sadly is the world we live in right now. But never stop trying to help those that want help. There’s still many of us out here that appreciate your honesty and knowledge on the subject.

[@ericamciver1293]

That is true. I live above a hoarder who has/had dead animals and tow teenagers living in it. One child is autistic and uor complex management says it is fine as they have the right to live as they want.

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

People are often reticent to identify and treat their mental illnesses because of statements like "they don't want to do the hard work and change". Meds, therapy, etc. aren't automatic fixes and they can be prohibitively expensive with our healthcare system. Also, managing/treating mental illness is much more complicated than your statement indicates. You are part of the problem and not the solution if you stigmatize people with mental health issues by essentially calling them lazy.

[@Calvotribe]

@@ExtraordinaryMachine333 I think you’re taking my statement out of context considering I have struggled with a mental illness myself but through hard work and persistence I’ve been able to manage it. It’s a daily progress. But the first step was admitting I had a problem that was not letting me live my life fully. Then the next step was finding solutions that work for me. Nothing is a quick fix and that’s why I said people would rather be “ok” stuck where they are then put in the hard work and change for the better.

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

@@Calvotribe And I have friends and family who have chronic depression and/or have unalived themselves because of mental illness. They did not find solutions or have not found them yet. It's not because they lacked hard work or persistence. It's wonderful if you can manage your own mental health issues and if you can attribute that to your own fortitude. But assuming that other people just need to bootstrap their way to mental health and they'll have your results sounds ableist and privileged.

[@Calvotribe]

@@ExtraordinaryMachine333 in this video we’re not talking about ALL mental illnesses. We’re taking about hoarding as a mental illness. If you read my post I say there are a lot of mental illnesses that people don’t want to try and change or get help for. If your family members have continued to try and get help and are under the care of a doctor then they obviously don’t fall into that category of just making excuses to not get better. I’m sure they don’t want to live in their depression and want to feel better.

[@laurabrynn]

My latest video broke this down a lot more to talk about how we need minimalism to help combat consumerism pushing us more and more towards using hoarding as a way to cope, and you’re right, the “trendification” of this as clutter-core is not helping anyone

[@redjam12]

I saw the clip you discussed here. I never read the comments. I am here today though to just say thanks. I've been listening in for a while and I find your messages affirming and it helps me continue to buy less, get rid of more, and celebrate life. Thanks guys.

[@bradgantt1818]

There is a recognized clinical mental disorder called compulsive hoarding or Plyushkin's disorder. I think the issue is whether someone who has accumulated a large amount of stuff crosses the threshold into compulsive hoarding. Collecting and hoarding are different things, clinically anyways, and it is difficult to discern the difference looking from outside. Some may (justifiably) take issue with being labeled by someone who lacks context.

[@100dayss]

Having worked as a home health nurse, and having been in many homes, at the end stages of hoarding, I can say, in my opinion, this is a major mental illness!

[@she-ra0622]

I'm a level 4 minimalist with OCD- husband is level 3 hoarder who won't throw away paper garbage, old tools and clothes. We agreed to limit his hoard to the basement, his closet(s), and garage. I accepted the cluttercore which is sports memorabilia because it's great conversation for guests but still trying to deal with our 'mental illness' that started in childhood. Of course you don't know this in the beginning of a relationship; he thought I was a neat freak and I assumed I could change him. Going on 22 years now..

[@Moonbunny55]

I had a divorce over hoarding aka ‘irreconcilable differences’ 😢

[@elaineclaire7063]

Let them be mad, you live your own values and beliefs we're not here to please everyone You guys are doing your best in advocating a meaningful life, people get butthurt all the time because they can't deal with the truths. All the more you should bring more truths in love you guys🔥❤️

[@alessandrasmith339]

As a former hoarder from a family of recovering hoarders, hoarding a symptom of mental illness. “I’ll keep this just in case…” usually means, “I’m anxious about the future and I don’t want to be caught unawares and be out of control.” “I can’t get rid of this, it’s from…” usually means, “I’m insecure about the relationships in my life and if I get rid of this thing it means I am rejecting the one who gave it to me, thus they can in turn take back their love.” “So many memories…” can mean, “I don’t want to let go of this moment/person/time in my life.” Curing hoarding can only happen when the whole person is able to heal. That takes a very holistic and steady approach.

[@Bobbi-the-Croz]

I love you all the more. Thank you for being honest. If I were to ever need an intervention, I would want you guys in my corner. ❤ All the power, all the love. ❤

[@lovetotravel780]

I think some people look to be offended by things and people because they may be uncomfortable and do not know how to deal with a difference in opinion or the truth. There is a quote by Thomas Paine "He who dares not offend cannot be honest."

[@flossyfloss303]

Joshua’s situation when his own mother passed away was inspiring. Dealing with thousands of left over trinkets and letting them go. Not hoarding these trinkets forever. Imagine if he has held onto all of his mums stuff when she died and rented a storage space. Very healthy way to deal with grief/trauma. Let it go.

[@madisonromero3529]

I was a hoarder and I think I did have a mental illness. I have used the 16 rules for living with less to free myself of that terrible problem. I would love to purchase all sorts of things, but now I don’t have to.

[@kalinaluz1106]

Almost every time we are mad at someone is because we touched a hidden wound - need to be loved, need someone to stand up for us, need to belong, need to feel worthy, need to be heard, need to heal. That is how the healing, evolving starts, we are confronted by someone's point of view. Before reacting, better give a thought of what and how something was said. I think, the fact that we see a person on that picture, is the real reason for the reaction. You said something for the concept, I am sure! Maybe the people that got mad at you, put the person at the center and totally ignored the stuff part. Here we have a very real life example how the perception is in the eye of the viewer.

[@nnylasoR]

I am an amazing human being who happens to have been diagnosed with anxiety, depression, ADHD, OCD… as well as hoarding disorder - and I *APPLAUD* this discussion.

[@DCB938]

No matter what you say during these insane times some fool is going to take offense and complain loudly about it. If there is something online or in the real world that I don’t like I just move on to the next thing.

[@chaefender]

It’s definitely a mental illness. We shouldn’t be so attached to so many inanimate objects. That affects your life and relationships. Therefore it’s a mental illness and whoever is struggling with this should seek help because you can get your life back in order. ❤ Ps: I’m writing this comment from my job at a storage facility. I’ve seen the worst of it. You wouldn’t believe the thousands of dollars some people spend to store useless junk. It’s sad.

[@carochan86]

Storage wars I've seen a storage locker with multiple empty boxes. They obviously don't enjoy those objects in the storage locker or they would have found a place for them in their home.

[@ЕленаЛазарова-и2л]

Bravo Josh, strong but fair words!

[@jennrusk5914]

Thank you for extrapolating on the reel/short from the other day. You have all been very helpful to my life. ♥️

[@Tony_Seed]

Literally anything you put on the internet (including this comment) people will outspokenly hate it, who cares.

[@i2sky532]

My gosh. I hadn't even heard of "cluttercore." That looks suffocating.

[@Yearofthetiger24026]

I don't think this is controversial at all. Having a mental illness, is an illness... No need for stigma. Having watched many hoarding programmes, it is heartbraking to hear the reason the hoarding started in the first place. Many times, it is a loss that has occured, something or someone taken from them and in their grief, a new coping strategy begins, not a healthy one, but they are trying to fill a void that has occured in their lives. Fascinating and sad at the same time. I only have a scant knowledge, but can see the purpose hoarding brings. And then you have our modern society that tries to inundate us with the message that stuff will make us happy! When I turned my back on this message over 30 years ago, it was amazing. I haven't watched this vidwo yet, but the headline created a reaction in me. Just watched this video and loved it. So many stand alone statements or questions... I love the addition of TK's input into the dynamic. Not giving your energy to something you dislike and instead to things you love or feel passionate about, is definitely a mindful choice.

[@universaltruth2025]

I’m about one step away from being a hoarder. I didn’t realise it had go so bad until it got to the point where I now struggle with where to put clutter because every spare corner is full. I would say I would probably qualify for both adhd & ocd. I keep up with the cleaning & chores but it doesn’t leave me with a lot of time or energy to deal with the clutter. I do get rid of a lot of stuff at certain times but not fast enough.

[@cassandraknight8804]

I have ptsd and 0CD among other associated mental health problems. It is no measure of sanity to be sane in an insane world/ Environment . I am also a level 1 or 2 hoarder and it is a mental illness in its own right that I try to cope with, improve upon except and change. Thank you so much for your passion and expression Joshua…. I agree with you and believe in you .

[@mtorres9069]

I love that this topic was discuss because people don't want to face that there are any part of the discuss that can affect the mind of the person. Great thinks that you brought to the table.

[@dalemonn2782]

They're doing the same thing with obesity, despite the fact that obesity causes many diseases and illnesses and puts an undue strain on the health care system.

[@cassandram6126]

Keep telling that truth

[@joshuatall8134]

Mental illness has a very negative meaning, in our society. People take offense at things that they perceive as a negative.

[@Moonbunny55]

It’s mental ‘differences’ 😂

[@alanbirkner1958]

I'm on meds for 3 mental illnesses. Having a clean, clutter free home keeps me calm. I enjoy sorting so much that I volunteer at two places that let me sort. Tina, Al's wife

[@kimlec3592]

Hoarding is a human response to loss. It is often people who have silently endured massive emotionally unhelpful events & then compounded by people around the person being emotionally abusive. Child abuse is denied to a huge degree. You cannot keep hacking away at a person & expect them to do well. Some people are surrounded by absolute bastards. They hoard in an effort to place a buffer between themselves & the attackers (family/partners/friends). No one goes off the rails for no reason. Some people have massively destructive people in their lives. This is hardly ever noticed or attended to, because the vulnerable person is often isolating themselves in order to not have to hear more verballing & harmful communication. Diagnosing someone is actually not helpful. What is is someone to stop & notice the abuse & say something to make the abusers realise that others can see & hear the abuse. When the person is supported adequately, then they can heal...but these wounds run very deep. People are very strong, but they can only take so much. Instead of insulting someone, try to offer support instead. You just never know what someone goes through, due to "loving" family...Diagnosing is just another judgement. It helps not at all, and can make a vulnerable person feel even worse than what they already do. Words can heal, but they can also harm. Speak with the intention to give some respect to someone who through no fault of their own, find themselves in an emotionally tough situation. If you think I have no idea what I'm talking about, please be aware I have a brother who has been lying in the cemetery due to the abuse of his "loving" parents. Stop hurting people who are already hurt enough.

[@kimberlyjohnson6052]

Thank you! ❤

[@jackfenton2271]

All that crap in your yard falls into the same category.

[@karincelliers9128]

Nobody would be jumping on you if you pointed out someone had a broken arm. Saying someone has a mental illness is not a negative judgement. An illness is a illness. If you think there is something wrong with reference to a mental illness says more about you than you know

[@babysq7777]

As life would have it, 3 times I had to move and leave with very little. This taught me to let go of things. Coming from a country where nothing is thrown out because of lack mentality, it was ingrained in me . I still buy too much, but I am capable of passing it along to donation centres. Not ideal, but work in progress

[@galaxy98765]

I'm not mad at you. You spoke the truth. I'm guessing that my clutter in my house was caused by all the narcissistic abuse my father inflicted on me until the day he died when I was 56 years old. 😢

[@bb_lz9790]

I just looked up the 5 stages of Hoarding. Entry requirements are pretty modest actually...

[@justsayin3647]

I ain’t mad at you.

[@mateuszwozniak8049]

Well said Joshua

[@rjcrowart]

Hoarding is not quite it's own illness, but rather a symptom of another untreated mental illness (whoch could be caused by a variety of different illnesses). It is clearly an unhealthy coping mechanism, the same way some people turn to other addictions such as drugs or alchohol! I'm not sure why people would see this as a controversial statement to be honest...it's pretty to clear to anyone that has known a hoarder (or even watched that television show) that these people are usually deeply troubled in some way.

[@ShinobiEngineer]

More like "hoardingcore"... smh.

[@samueltremblay275]

It's funny because if on the picture you would have seen the exact same quantity of things but without a girl, the statement would have been perfectly accepted but because there is a girl, a lot of people are angry. Could they be angry because this put them in the front of a mirror of their own pathology? This is not a bad thing to have a pathology. What it is is to don't acknowledge that fact.

[@cathyjane4774]

Maybe the person in the cluttercore photo doesn't have anything in their drawers and closets (if they even have drawers and closets in this trend). Humm....can you invite a cluttercore person onto your show to ask some questions? I feel there is a lot of unknowns about what is going on with this supposed trend. Enquiring minds want to know more!

[@stephaniegauldin5480]

Can I just say…. I love T.K.

[@barbaraluningham5761]

I know a hoarder. It is definitely a mental condition.

[@terywetherlow7970]

After the last 3 years of products being unavailable, I grab everything I'll need in future. Sure as shoot it won't exist to buy.

[@averytoker1645]

You said nothing wrong

[@sylvee2]

Looks like loneliness

[@kaseybyington6439]

You’re right!

[@rg-mi5hh]

Filling a void in life with stuff or ocd is similar. I watch people mow their yards two times a week out of boredom or ocd. It is the weirdest waste of time. It goes on for hours and it would only take thirty minutes. Going around and around the same thing. To me that is simlar to hoarding. Keep doing things with the same results.🚜

[@Shiryone]

I don't know how people handle cleaning and dust with so much stuff. I guess they don't? Makes me want to sneeze just thinking about it.

[@PinkSallyProductions]

It makes me ponder that commercialism is now the new ‘opiate of the masses’. As for all of the views and negative comments regarding your statement, it just shows that controversy drives interest. I know that if I feel angry or triggered by a comment or video on social media, before hitting out at the author, I look at why it has affected me enough to want to hit out at that person, it is usually because I have taken that comment or opinion personally as it identifies a part of myself, or someone that I care for, and I hear it as criticism. Hoarding is defined as a mental illness, that is a fact, whether cluttercore is a mental illness, who knows yet, maybe it is just a matter of opinion and hasn’t yet been defined as an illness. can speak as a person with OCD, diagnosed during lockdown, and also as someone who is in recovery from hoarding traits after months of therapy for it. I do not find it insulting to be called out as a hoarder or being classed as having a mental illness or condition, that takes the sting out of the tail when it crops up. Your books, talks and discussions have all been part of my road to recovery and they continue assist me in understanding myself. I thank you all greatly. Be well, Sally 🌹

[@averytoker1645]

Ocd can be a coping skill, I have it too😉

[@therealjenniferrr]

Oh no, The Minimalists are about to get canceled. 🤣 As they say though, there's no such thing as bad publicity! 😅

[@mjequality]

I believe hoarding is a symptom of a more serious mental illness. It's not necessarily the illness. Much like a pain in your body is the symptom of a medical problem. So if you focus on the root cause, the symptom will go away. Imho. Either way, hoarding is destructive to the hoarder and people who love them.

[@ferdiemontenegro5436]

Joshua keeping it real 💯

[@lindsaysimplified]

I must say I like controversial Josh. I also like Dave Ramsey. Both of which don’t hold back, which is probably why I appreciate both of them. When people try to sugar coat things to appease the masses it’s insincere and unhelpful.

[@suen5006]

The photo you showed isn't hoarding. She's a collector, her stuff is pretty well organized, it's not causing her grief, it's not interfering with relationships, there are no dead cats. It's too much stuff for you I'm sure, but it's clear she enjoys her stuff and likes to have it and display it. So no, it's not a mental illness.

[@mosheedy9862]

People are thin skinned. Keep it up!!!!🎉

[@cassandraknight8804]

Actually I love and appreciate who you are ❤

[@hansdailyfashion]

People on Tiktok are always angry. 💀

[@rinat.nailev]

Hi! I don’t know if you did it on purpose but the podcasts on spotify are gone (0 to around 170). I really find value in them. Can you add them back if it’s possible?

[@TheMinimalists]

If you re-listen to Episode 1, you'll hear the explanation for why we've removed the first 200 episodes.

[@d.zyned2thrive584]

Love how you cut through the BS here.

[@labrittany415]

But what if their stuff makes them happy? Please don't obsessed over other "clutter" or let that bother you soo much.💞💖💕

[@claudiamunoz7143]

People need help and sometimes we make excuses for ourselves and our actions and problems. People who love and care for others are saying the truth about this issues. I am thankful I came across the minimalist . They helped me get out the underlying issues. I feel that I woke up to the truth and realized I had a problem. I am thankful because now I am fighting with these issues and making so much progress. Truth hurts but we need to accept and change. There are some people that don’t accept and make excuses but it’s ok if they don’t accept and there a lot of us like me that accept and want that change. ❤ thank God for people that want to help us.

[@claudiamunoz7143]

Thankful

[@bjwilliams]

​​@@claudiamunoz7143 keep going! Retired elementary teacher, since childhood I was a minimalist. I walk everyday, do aerobics at home. Got rid of most clothes, just workout gear, tennis shoes!😂 less is peaceful, contentment. --🌴😎northern California ( the Valley)...rainy season now--March 2023.☔

[@rnt45t1]

Okay, then give all your money away.

[@shirleygermain5707]

Who cares if you offend anyone. That is their problem. Stop the wokeness.

[@Julie-nj6lj]

Because your clutter reflects your mindset.

[@lelik532]

Gentle pumpkin 84'

[@rg-mi5hh]

Who knows? Just live, try to keep up with life and do the best we can. We all have areas to work on. We are all entitled to our own opinions. What someone else thinks is their business.

[@carochan86]

You automatically assume people are holding onto clutter. Other options: -Maybe they don't have the time to go through the clutter. - other priorities beside the clutter - aren't home enough to care - too many emotions attached to the items - it feels like work to declutter you items to some people. - they like all the shoes like in the picture but don't have a system or money for space or a system to get the items off the floor. - like someone else below said hoarding can be a symptom of OCD. - Just because you value a lot of stuff doesn't make you a hoarder. We can't just make assumptions.

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

My understanding is that hoarding can be a symptom of mental illness but isn't a mental illness in and of itself. I think an argument can be made for someone having more shoes than they can wear in their lifetime to be hoarding them, but that might not be correct. Merriam Webster says hoarding is: "the compulsion to continually accumulate a variety of items that are often considered useless or worthless by others accompanied by an inability to discard the items without great distress" So...are they useless? They would be to me, maybe not to her. Could she discard them without great distress? No idea. I don't think any of us can know that just looking at a picture, and we can't formally diagnose her with a mental illness without credentials and outside of a clinical setting. I can understand why Josh made his statement, but it isn't entirely valid. It seems extreme but that's a layman's perspective at best.

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

Hoarding Disorder is its own subset under OCD in the current DSM, so I stand corrected on that :) . Cleveland Clinic website states: "Hoarding items and collecting items are distinct behaviors. Collecting normally involves saving certain types of items...You’d carefully choose these items and typically organize them in a certain way. Collecting items in this way doesn’t negatively impact your daily life. Hoarding doesn't involve organization of the items in a way that makes them easy to access or use. People with hoarding disorder often hoard items that have little or no monetary value, such as pieces of paper or broken toys. The hoarding also negatively impacts their daily life." So if she can use all those shoes and it doesn't impact her daily life, it's not hoarding. It WOULD be hoarding for me though, and it sounds like for Josh as well--that many items clumped together like that makes me tired just looking at it.

[@carochan86]

@@ExtraordinaryMachine333 thank you .I wish the guys on the video would have brought up this exact thing. With just a little googling and walla credibility and empathy. Thank u