Pepperball VKS saga - why the rise AND fall?

What happened to the Less Lethal defense PepperBall VKS? It was nearly ubiquitous for 2 or 3 years and you couldn't get on a social media group without seeing someone tinkering with it. Now it seems that the middlemen don't have any more availability and the tap has run dry. In this video I give a little history of the early days, the initial expectations, and the rise to fame. The VKS is a great device but it was oversold and built up to such lofty expectations that it was destined to fall. Am I right? Am I wrong? Let's talk about it.
#lesslethal
#pepperballvks
#airgunshooter
#firststrikefsc

[@charleswalden7529]

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[@airgunnerreviews7888]

Very interesting segment thank you! It would be nice if the manufacturers would be proactive on KZbin by watching and responding to how their products are being used and modified. Byrna is always watching and has walked back some of their claims on their website, the LE was stated to be 16 joules and now it is 15.2, the effective range went from 80ft to 60 and average fps was 340 and now it is 330, this is a direct result from KZbinrs calling them out. The AEA Harpoon (not less lethal of course) but shoots with over 100 joules yet no manual, no warning labels, slightly exposed firing pins, and a safety that cannot be engaged after the first shot has been taken! It is an accident waiting to happen and could jeopardize air gun classification. When I put my warning video out there it was perceived by many that I was making a mountain out of a mole hill. A lot of the problem starts with the professional KZbinr receiving the launchers for nothing and glorifies the product in exchange. Grimburg also watches youtube videos on the Gavle and responds with his own KZbin videos on fixes and upgrades, this is exactly what other manufacturers need to do!

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

Great points!! Respectable companies will ALWAYS listen to the consumer base and act accordingly. "Professional KZbinrs" though are a real concern and I would classify anyone who is selling products on the side or teaming up with those who are to shill for them as falling in that category even if they don't make a full living at the side gig. They will overlook obvious safety hazards especially with the mods or new add-on devices that they produce. I know that no launcher is perfect but when unsafe and unreliable products are being sold, we as unbiased "honest brokers" of information have to call it out. I really appreciate your reviews. They are valuable to the community.

[@waltimus]

I think a big component was the m17 gaining traction and being so much cheaper to mod. As far as all the price gouging, I was curious about who was selling VKS's for such high mark ups and noticed Sterling is selling one for $3300, which is absolutely bananas. There's so many dubious actors in the less lethal space you really have to be careful with every transaction...if ever legislation passes which prohibits the use of less lethal it'll likely because of one of this 100j monstrosities accidentally maiming someone or worse.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

Agreed. Both the Valken M17 and the Umarex platforms have surprised me. I admit I was skeptical that they could hold up to greater PSI and Joule settings. But so far they seem to be doing ok. I think the PepperBall platform on the exterior is built like a tank but the weak link is certainly the firing pin. With normal use the VKS is great. I have no issues at all and I love look and feel. The other models seem to have a more robust firing bolt design and while I don't really think anyone should legally modify these to 100 Joules people are doing it. Only time will tell what the consequences are to the community.

[@Markkiloz]

VKS is by far the best less lethal rifle …I agree with you the prices they are being sold for by modders are ridiculously overpriced 2k which is why I don’t have one…..yet…but u don’t need 100 joules 55 …60 joules max will stop anyone unless they have on body armor …there are gonna be issues with all launcher which is why it’s good to keep them maintained and replace …detents…orings and springs after about 100 shots on my M17 and keep it oiled

[@blackpowderpapa]

I was never interested in the VKS just because of the size of the magazine. I thought it was ridiculous how far it dropped. Aside from that, someone else mentioned and I agree with the M17 comment. Also, you can include the TMC magfed in that category There are so many companies out there selling it modded to 50 joules that the VKS didn't make any sense after that. If I can get an M17 or TMC for $700 that has more power from MCS then that definitely would destroy competitors. So many of these channels are starting to sell their own weapons with way too much power. As you said, first thing they fail quite often. Not something you want if you are a restricted person and this is all you have in your home to defend your family. The amount of joules that are being put on the market from these channels is going to lead to someone's death. The moment that happens, Congress is no longer going to be talking about action. They're going to be signing bills immediately. A lot of these channels are a restricted person themselves and they should realize what they are pushing the market to become. Before you know it, they will require background checks and be illegal for restricted people. Way too many people are out there causing the self defense of a good part of our nation to be in danger of going away. Great topic.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

You are right. 100+ Joules is not that far from some .22 caliber pistols and reclassification would become almost a certainty. There is the law of unintended consequences. Everyone has been wanting to do this for a long time and now that it's possible it may backfire.

[@Spartan_Tactical]

You are right. A few years ago, I asked people whether they'd prefer a VKS or a CQMF with some additional money for accessories. Everyone chose the VKS, but I disagreed with their choice. Now the M17 is the preferred option, but people are misusing it just like they did with the VKS. It's not wise to operate the M17 at over 100 Joules.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

Yes, I agree about the M17. I also debated between the M17 and the VKS before my purchase. Ultimately, I was concerned that the M17 required lots of air (1100 PSI tank) to achieve 40ish Joules where the VKS could shoot at 40ish very efficiently and have many more shots left over. But the M17 has proven to be reliable even at those pressures. I do agree that no paintball marker will run long-term at 100 Joules. It's a big gamble with your life holding a device like that up to your head and hoping for the best.

[@Spartan_Tactical]

@ScaredyCatTactical Yes, they work well, but I wish I had never released our first high-flow regulator, which has now been copied by HD24. While I don’t mind that they took the design, I dislike seeing my products associated with reckless behavior. However, they likely would have figured it out on their own anyway. Please get in touch with me; I believe we can change your mind on shaped projectiles. We collaborated with a company in Vegas, and I can assure you that they do not jam, are more accurate, and have about 10% more power than a julv3

[@ThomasJay723]

Going through all your videos now 🔥

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

@@ThomasJay723 I try to call them like I see them when it comes to airgun options. There are pros and cons to everything.

[@ThomasJay723]

@@ScaredyCatTactical yes sir 🙌 we have similar views . I’m glad I found you on here . Always trying to build up our community moral 💪

[@Joreel]

I've looked into the VKS a few times, but they're just so expensive. But they are reliable out of the box or law enforcement and the military would be using them. I bought my first less lethal in 2022 and it was a Byrna Hi Viz as they were the only company they would sell to California residents as I've said before. I like mine and it's been a good reliable launcher but I knew it was kinda underpowered as a kinetic launcher so I bought a 50 Joule HDX after we moved to Arizona for better home defense. I practice with the Byrna on a regular basis while the HDX gets used twice a month (30 or so rounds) to keep it lubricated and ready if I ever need it. I probably should fire it more, but because it's a modified 50 Joule launcher, I don't want to risk using too much for fun and putting too much strain on the O-rings or other internals that could fail at the worst time.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

Would I buy a VKS again at this price? Definitely not. Would I mod a paintball marker to 50+ Joules? Definitely not. I would like anything that is factory-made to 40ish Joules. Your 50 Joule HDX sound pretty good. That's just such a sweet spot for Less Lethal. Think of the Gavle shooting every shot just like the first one but you have a 15 round mag. That's the beauty of the VKS when it's tuned properly. Byrna has it's niche just like the Salt Supply S2 and the FSC/TCP. They all have value but none of them is good for everything. Choosing a less lethal EDC is such a difficult experience. Unlike a firearm that does 1 job well, each less lethal tools has it's sub-niche that it does well.

[@Joreel]

​@@ScaredyCatTacticalI'm glad that you put out so many different videos on different topics that most less lethal channels don't cover or talk about. I agree that 40-50 Joules is about the max you should go, but after firing the HDX and seeing the damage it does on a vacuum sealed pot roast, it does make me a little worried about what the actual damage it could do to a real person could be. I don't think anything over 50 Joules should be considered less lethal as 50 Joules tears deep holes in that roast and I had to use a knife to dig the rounds out.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

@@Joreel Thanks. I completely agree with you about that concern.

[@charleswalden7529]

Hello. Do u have any experience or opinions with the valken m17? Thanks in advance either way.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

It is a cheap option that some like. It requires some mods that aren’t necessarily easy but many do them. The negative is that it is an air hog and requires a HPA adapter system that is of questionable reliability. Many swear by it at 50-60 Joules but I wouldn’t recommend going higher than that. But it doesn’t have firing bolt breaks like the VKS.

[@BonesDT]

Why is nobody covering the Paradigm PTX? From the little I’ve seen, this seems to be the King of less lethal. Looks like it can handle oodles of power, especially when they release the larger air chamber. But I don’t understand why it’s not taking off.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

From what I've seen it's shooting about 19 Joules and is a bit awkward looking. The size is not disclosed but I bet it's big. I know that they also make some well-built rifle set ups that are cool but I personally am really only focused on finding smaller and smaller alternatives for concealed carry. At this point the VKS, or any of a number of other options exist for long barrels and 40ish Joule power as a truck or home defense weapon. The holy grail remains compact EDC options imo.

[@BonesDT]

@@ScaredyCatTactical I’m all about compact too. That’s why I never got into the VKS. But the PTX looks as compact as you can get with ASA, so I can get on board with its size. The only reason I haven’t gotten a PTX yet is because I don’t have room for it at the moment and I’m waiting for for them to actually release the promised bigger air chamber. 19J is very low but I think there’s also another limiting part like a spring that they are required to ship with. I guess time will tell.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

@@BonesDT I will be keeping an eye on Paradigm. It looks like a promising company.

[@Joreel]

​@@BonesDTJon over at Alternate Arms Self Defense did a nice in-depth review of the PTX if you haven't seen it. It was done about three weeks ago. It looks like a great system, but it's very expensive ($1250) so the average less lethal user isn't going to be buying it sadly.

[@BonesDT]

@@Joreel yes I’m subscribed to him. He’s literally the only YT’er talking about the PTX. It’s really not that expensive at all. It’s the same price as or less than the VTX (why I brought this up here), it comes with a bottle, and people are putting just as much into modding other markers or buying pre-modded markers

[@CosminTugearu]

Valken M17 100 joules here.

[@ScaredyCatTactical]

How reliable has it been for you?