Perfected Lothern Sea Guard Doomstack

[@harrower3365]

When you think about it, an arrow is a tiny spear.

[@vigil2150]

You're technically correct, the best kind of correct.

[@sim.frischh9781]

A SMALL spear. Or more technically correct: a small JAVELIN. Because you throw it. With a bow.

[@LordBeldrake]

@@sim.frischh9781 ahh but when you get down to it. A javalin is just a spear that gets thrown sometimes

[@sim.frischh9781]

@@LordBeldrake Correct, it´s a spear that gets thrown, hence it´s a javelin.

[@sassyviking6003]

@@sim.frischh9781 but what is a jevelin if not a light throwing spear. Truly the greatest weapon humans ever developed was the sharp and pointy stick. It is the most prolific weapon in all of history and has survived thousands of years, even into the age of gunpowder (For what is a bayonet if not a means to make your gun a spear?)

[@vuvoinh2366]

Never thought there will be a day i see a perfected staunch line of spears

[@smokinggnu6584]

Checkerboard.

[@grimgoreironhide9985]

*Spears with which are primarily Archers.

[@sassyviking6003]

@@grimgoreironhide9985 you see, I take issue with the "primarily archers" claim. They qre more expensive, yes. Because they fill 2 roles at once. But sea guard with shields are not less a competent front line than spears. Of course all the added in fluff like silverin guard make spears and sea guard more redundant. But respectable early game armor, shields, solid melee stats with an emphasis on defense. The meet all the requirements for an anvil unit, just with the bonus of shooting at the enemy as the close the game as well.

[@sympunny8636]

@@sassyviking6003 They are worse in melee than basic spearmen due to over 1000 lower base health and model count. Compared to silverin guard obviously they're far worse. However, given the much greater extra cost, higher tier requirement and lower health, it's not great to use them as spears unless you don't have an option eg. against fast flanking units coming round the side of your archers.

[@KamikazKid]

@@sympunny8636 categorically wrong, lothern seaguard do better in melee than basic spears because of their higher leadership, the seaguard don't have as many models/health, but neither will the enemy after 2-3 volleys getting to your line. Also the ability to do damage to fleeing units without having to chase them is something you can't put a value on too often melee units become badly out of position, this usually doesn't happen with seaguard.

[@SereglothIV]

Am I the only one who always enjoys an after-battle analysis far more than the battle itself?

[@maevethefox5912]

I very often do, at least for the Doomstack videos. All but the craziest disaster battles, I kinda see what's going to happen before it plays out at this point

[@zacharyellis3336]

No I like it

[@Xanthate1845]

yep, same reason I like disaster campaigns more than "disaster" battles

[@AverageSol]

Yeah I skipped the battle this video myself

[@Littlebob1986]

Yes!

[@Boxfortress]

I think people forget that sisters requires a DLC and sea guard are base game. Theyre the better archer option if you don't have the Queen and the Crone.

[@AurioDK]

I never figured out why I suck with the Seaguard, I always do well with basic archer/spearmen stacks. I must be dumb or something.

[@Mr.ToadJanfu]

Actually archers are the better archer option if you don't have Queen and the Crone

[@harrytan5579]

​@@AurioDK Archers are better at range than the seaguard with longer range and higher damage. But it helps a lot if you put a few seaguard on a archer/spearmen stack, since they can protect flanks in addition to dealing range demage.

[@Boxfortress]

@@AurioDK /shrug lots of reasons. Playstyle, usage, familiarity, upgrades/buffs? Lots to consider best thing honestly is to use what works for you.

[@freespeach99]

@@AurioDK try checkerboard formation in a pyramid shape. I learned that on this channel and it just destroys low-mid tier AI armies.

[@Pla_mya]

The perfect staunch line of spears

[@torquevonthorne948]

With pew pew potential

[@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149]

@@torquevonthorne948 The perfect archer checkerboard formation with poking potential

[@greatfishoftherhodiumriver6714]

They make their ancestors proud.

[@gustavosanches3454]

The only reason sisters outperform this army is because of the AP missile damage and the fact they don't need too much to boost them.

[@Fastwinstondoom]

With the way mass works in this game I'd say their loose formation is also a plus for the sisters.

[@01001010010001001100]

Yeah you can put a stack of sisters under any lord with no heroes and get pretty consistent good results against most enemies. Pretty hard to beat that.

[@harrytan5579]

@@01001010010001001100 Well, T4 unit and high cost are the downsides of sisters.

[@cathulionetharn5139]

@@harrytan5579 minor nitpick but t3 on alarielle

[@sympunny8636]

@@harrytan5579 the seaguard with shields have the same upkeep as sisters.

[@IYIENACE]

the biggest strength of this stack is that you can build it early especially if you go shieldless seaguard, that and it's inexpensive. you make these stacks then later game simply transfer in sisters to your leveled up heroes. I'd still prefer some artillery though depending on the battle/opposition

[@aayushpurswani9630]

I think Legend here was fighting the map more than he was the enemy. He was placed in a very weird place.

[@biowiener7825]

maps are my worst enemy, any ranged army can be fucked so hard by the map its insane, getting into athel loren as Ickit is just pain

[@davidjagt9627]

@@biowiener7825 I've actually had to put an Ikit Claw campaign on hold while I try to keep my blood pressure down because of all the Gods damned trees

[@biowiener7825]

@@davidjagt9627 doing them one forrest battle a day could really help remaining sanity lol, ive actually send in a stack of plague priests once because i was so tired of the map fucking my missiles, its not only the trees, the terrain in athel loren in also super hilly

[@davidjagt9627]

@@biowiener7825 oh, for sure the hills are wonky. I might actually do that, though. I've got a few different campaigns running right now, so adding Ikit back into the mix might be fun

[@biowiener7825]

@@davidjagt9627 if you mean you actually do that do you mean the plagueprieststack? if so then level a bit in the item chance so they can get the bell polisher follower so you have as much capacity as you want (gives +1 capacity to plague priests). i use a mod where i get 3x skillpoints though so idk how hard this impacts vanilla but you will get enough eventually, be aware though, that the treemen and dragons are still pretty annoying unless you have a high level lord to deal with them

[@MasterJMG]

High Elves really are stacked.

[@patrickb.8485]

I've always found LSG to be outstanding early game troops that age well. Most lords have red line stats that help make them tough, they have anti-large/charge stats and they all shoot. They hold up very well especially when backed up by some Nobles/Loremaster heroes who can tank melee units and even provide healing.

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

I never recruit them. You can now recruit tier 1 archers without a barracks building. so you basically have one more build slot. And those tier 1 archers do more ranged damage and are way way cheaper than seaguard. Cheaper units mean, that you can build up faster and that you can afford a second army quite early. especially as Eataine. And Avelorne have sisters at tier 3. This makes the seaguard also obsolete

[@animewarrior3]

@@HeavyMetalGamingHD true, but for vortex campaigns having a lothern sea guard army for defense purposes is really good. Because it can handle most of the chaos spawns on its own, for relatively cheap. It's less valuable in ME.

[@freespeach99]

I love armies like these because I don’t always want to completely roll over every AI army. Or even just cheap defensive armies for rituals/chaos invasion. Lothern Sea Guard are just a straight up fun unit to use and learn how formations work.

[@CharliMorganMusic]

Lothern Sea Guard are just so good. One can make an entire army out of them and it'll be through the late game, provided they have a powerful caster

[@My10thAccount]

Lothern Sea Guard are basically Elven Marines and they perform about as well as that implies. I’d even argue that they’re the best infantry unit pound for pound in the entire game. There are infantry that are better than them in other areas, but the Lothern Sea Guard are good enough in every area that matters and can put up a good fight against almost any one in any way. There’s very few units that you could make a full army of and have that army remain effective without kneecapping yourself in other areas and these are one of those units.

[@toggle3927]

Auto Resolve currently favors hybrid ranged units so much. They mentioned tweaking AR in the blog and we'll see, because Kislev is literally almost all hybrid units right now.

[@JagEterCoola]

It favours ranged hybrids because the way the calculation Is run, It assumes you've used up all your ammo by the time the enemy reaches you. Which means that, effectively, in Auto-Resolve, you're counted as having say, 2 Armies almost, as the enemy first gets shredded by your ammo, and then has to deal with your boosted melee defence/attack/strength when in tatters.

[@TheNoodleGod9001]

Ardent with a sea-guard/archer stack I found is pretty vital early-game, before you can afford the crazy mega entrepeneur stacks that boost your economy by a billion. Teclis and Imrik really struggle with cash early on so the -30% upkeep is pretty great for that. ...Also it's a thing if you have unit cap mods, where you simply can't access Sisters of Avelorn in enough numbers to make a doomstack of them.

[@DK-ep2ov]

Fire archmages will not only be much better early game, but they also require 0 influence. This goes for both Imrik and Teclis.

[@s4bc]

with teclis you can roll over lustria very fast with a basic archer stack and a couple of bolt throwers

[@TheNoodleGod9001]

@@s4bc Well you can't be everywhere in Lustria at once with one Legendary Lord

[@s4bc]

​@@TheNoodleGod9001 why would you want to be everywhere, teclis can take out his 4 LL neighbors in 30 turns. Starting with the eagle bolt thrower in your army is very strong, you just get archers and some spearmen to complete the full stack then you take out fellheart, skrolk, gor rok and harkon (in that order imo) rush their capitals, the sieges are super easy to win. Imrik's corner of the map is garbag , can definetly blitz both eshin and malus early with archer stack but then it gets into a tedious grind and his eco is shit.

[@TheNoodleGod9001]

@@s4bc Rebellions, defending territory. Teclis can't *teleport*, and it's usually beneficial to be able to *hold* the territory you've taken.

[@Mabujold]

The incendiary mage is awesome in that type of army because once you are set in a corner there is very little micro with this army and you can use him to cycle-charge with his huge charge bonus while also casting nice spells.

[@otwk]

One thing that could maybe improve this would be putting an Enchanted Spyglass on the Lord (since her "Loose" passive makes it worthwhile to have her sit over the army anyway) and giving the Book of the Phoenix to someone else. Of course the 10% Base Missile damage aren't all *that* great, but it does add up.

[@mark27432]

This reminds me of when my boss used to check my work, I would go in with so much confidence, sure I'd nailed it this time and come out with 'needs improvement'.

[@grimkupid8478]

It's 19 because after the battle you lost one of the Noble's to being wounded, happens right at the 10:28 mark.

[@FarhadHakimov]

Yeah, it was quite annoying to see him skip and not notice about 4 pop-ups of the successful ssassination

[@dr_palpy9214]

@@FarhadHakimov He figured it out like a minute after he was wondering where the hero went.

[@biowiener7825]

@@dr_palpy9214 i also love people complaining about stuff like this like damn,i dont want legend to watch my entire playthrough and tell me what i missed and what i did wrong because it doesnt matter (and also he would almost never stop then lol). giving a hint when someone is new to a game, sure, talking shit because he didnt see something instantly? just kinda dumb

[@patrickb.8485]

watching this 3 years later and still loving this comp :) Lutheran Sea Guard with Nobles on Chariots wrecks!

[@Freewata]

Oh gosh 83 melee defence on lothern sea guards with silver shields too XD.

[@honorguard7616]

Add charge defense against large too

[@FuelDropforthewin]

I think the advantage over Sisters is their shields and the associated missile block chance, which gives an advantage in archer duels.

[@sigvardr7682]

Lore accurate lothern sea guard

[@torquevonthorne948]

I tested the griphon as a mount for a princess and I actually prefer it to a dragon mount. Smaller hitbox, faster than a moon dragon, hits pretty hard and the number of models per hit seems decent.

[@maevethefox5912]

I was playing around with that too and quite liked them. Felt fitting for Yvresse as well. Kinda missed the breath attack but it wasn't a dealbreaker

[@sassyviking6003]

I always loved the griphon on tabletop. So I pick in here for thematic reasons. But woth the higher speed and charge bonus, if you plan to micro it a lot is also legitimately stronger.

[@SheepWaveMeByeBye]

Nice, thanks!

[@PerunsZGRevenge]

2:05 "Should we do that?" -Absolutely no, throw the longears into the crucible, test their might.

[@hazeljoy1]

I feel like this might be on par with sisters, but the barrier to entry is lower and trait farming is required. A bunch of sisters and a generic lord can do a lot of work out of the gate, which makes sisters spam better in my opinion. Requiring specific traits is a negative to me

[@danielkirpichnikov2007]

17:00 and that's what i did. Alariel (or punitive princess) + 4 handmaidens and fire mage. 4 maidens with 100+ melee defence is untouchable + they have some net abilities and can boost AP dmg. And fire mage is perfectly synergise with herself, boosting fire damage for entire army and her own and of course the fire lore of magic which is strongest offensive magic.

[@KamikazKid]

Lothern Seaguard are my go to army for mid-game, and quick reaction force especially since once you get Tyrion's trait you can pump out seaguard globally recruiting in 2 turns. Only thing I would change is get some resistant handmaidens instead of honed nobles.

[@Kuddochan]

Casual 542 million gold in the bank

[@marcgw496]

I’m pretty new to the game (got everything in the recent sale). Was trying to go for balanced armies with 5-6 spears, 5-6 archers, a hero, a few units of cav/eagles or phoenix, and perhaps a eagle claw bolt thrower or 2. But in mid campaign I started getting slaughtered by Rakarth’s faction. I thought why not try some lothern sea guard spam, and wow these guys in the checkerboard formation can really put in some work. Easily able to deal with 2 dark elf stacks on normal difficulty.

[@EagleScoutmano]

Balanced armies are great, but drop the cav/eagles (eagles are legit among the worst units in-game). Run extra archers (if you have them, Sisters of Avelorn) in place of those units. Two bolt throwers are helpful to force defensive armies to advance (once they start taking damage, they will advance), which both breaks their formation *and* gives them the loss to stamina. Also, only 4 or 5 melee units. A strong early-game 'mixed unit army' for the HE would be a shieldwall of 4 spears, Lord and hero (both casters), 12 archers (perhaps using 3x LSG with shields, and 9 regular archers), and 2 Bolt Throwers. for late game, replace spears with either Phoenix Guard or more heroes (Phoenix Guard are excellent melee units, with good stats and a LOT of ward save, but lack shields for ranged protection), and archers with SoA). If you do want to use a fast unit, the chariots can REALLY put in some work, but they're kinda' micro intensive. As some people have pointed out, you can also get your Nobles to ride chariots, filling that role without adding a unit.

[@RexorInvicta]

Sadly enough traditional balanced armies will always lose to strong unit spam.

[@HariF94]

@@RexorInvicta not really, only against braindead Ai

[@yankchef4067]

I've run a lot of similar lsg armies to this but always had 2 bolt throwers in there. As soon as I can switch to sisters I always do and they are definitely stronger imo

[@alexanderc9462]

probably the best ranged doomstack without the soa dlc

[@myhorseisamazing5883]

Shades with proper lord getting 200+ range.

[@Shero1337]

Auto resolve we all know to lie and be shit a lot of times, but something I like that is gonna be in Warhammer 3 is "the game will now tell you the predicted result and which units will be lost before hitting the button, as well as in-general how many casualties you will be taking" which will be pretty great imo

[@karimdaouiji9146]

For me this is one of the best low tier unit in the game, since you can use them in so many ways and buff them fast. I really like them.

[@Bubbl3Bubbl3gum]

Tyrion should have this stack, he has the "Combined Elites" skill in the red line

[@skullz291]

Legend of Turtle War here...

[@jhtiger1104]

I really love Lothern sea guards. Ulthuan Eternal!

[@PedroRodrigues-je6xp]

This army is very versatile, being cheap and able to defend itself

[@Your_Paramour]

In my view the true value of this sort of army is it gives you something to do with all the honed handmaiden and nobles you will recruit throughout a high elf campaign while farming better traits. Once you get into the mid game you'll probably never run out of hero capacity for nobles and handmaidens so why not use these ones instead of disbanding them. As long as you lightning strike you'll beat 95% of the armies that sisters spam can beat with a lothern sea guard spam.

[@Nightmare_52]

staunch line of spears + ranged weapon *perfection*

[@Vennnaya]

I think this actually did better than a sisters doomstack in this situation as most of the enemies who got up in their face was cavalry so they took extra damage from the spears.

[@generalharness8266]

Sisters would have been better, the problem with sea guard is the lack of AP, I highly recommend a celestial wizard or metal for armor reduction, the difference it makes is insane. It is worth it for the 30% reduction at the start, if its your second army they are still still cheaper but given it works with archers you might as well get those.

[@Fastwinstondoom]

I also think the super close formation generally hurts the lothern sea guard. It might just be my personal bias but close formation units just seem to take more damage from pretty much everything.

[@ggleplussuxx4787]

I also noticed that multiple times. Greenskins tend to take grudge shots pretty well outside blobs for that reason, especially Black Orks (very loose formation, few models, high health).

[@TheNoodleGod9001]

it also makes high elves really really weak to mortars and explosions, since they tend to have low HP per model but make up for it with silver shields and high MD, but explosions bypasses all of that.

[@laurentiumiu751]

12:45 You had 4 nobles. One of them got assasinated by Itza at 10:25.

[@gmikecstein]

Not bad. It's somewhere between archer spam and sisters. Makes me feel like warm.

[@dfitz5835]

High Elf Trait farmed heroes win again! I bet you could use the same doom stack with base archers as long as you have those heroes you will win.

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

You might get a few units wiped. Archers have much less defensive stats

[@ingold1470]

10:00 - LSG at the front, Sisters at the back?

[@lordz00]

MORE EARLY GAME DOOMSTACKS!

[@ragnaros3157]

7:48 : Did you just adjust the trajectory of the vortex ?!!

[@vinito19]

Lore finds a way...

[@MinNJW2111]

I play modded in i've done this army as well, even modded you can get the states even higher and they perform about the same. The problem is not melee health levels and 60 armor, yes armor isnt great but when you arent facing a cav spam/ range spam were your shield help. Even with such high states the lack of armor makes non-armor pierce get through.

[@artemkh8944]

Why i value very high lothern sea guards its because they are cheaper and easier to produce than sisters of avelorn. They are not a doomstack. They are just good units. Not only as some dude mentioned in the comment before you need a dlc for sisters of avelorn, but they also are more expensive, it takes 2 turns to recruit them (lets not take alariel subjugation into consideration) and also you need lvl 4 main settlement to be able to built them, which might take quite some time, while lothern sea guards can be literally made in any minor settlement with barracks lvl 3. Also lothern sea guards can be put in a better condition way faster, it means that their upgrades are available sooner, you dont need to unlock lvl 4 military upgrades like for sisters and wait an insane amount of time for upgrades to finish getting developed. Another thing is that lothern sea guards got silver shields which reflect 55% of arrows, and one of the most important things they are anti large with charge defence. Did i mention the fact that they are as good in melee as in range? For an early unit, lothern see guard is one of the best units in the game imo, because im not sure you can find any other unit who is as versatile as they are. Indeed they are quite average at everything, but the fact that you can use your units to shoot and then to fight in melee is a very important trait.

[@gavburger]

A noble got assassinated after the battle.

[@hectoraarlott]

my best-recorded doom stack was a full star dragon army that I grinded into getting full XP rank. I sent it on campaign towards Skavenblight and it had to fight 8 full Skaven armies laying in ambush. I lost 75% of my dragons but managed to win. went into the battle to do as much damage as possible while assuming to lose but ended up yeeting their entire civ in the dirt in one turn. it was satisfying af because they kept raiding my shores and corrupting shit. didn't see much from them after that battle lol

[@MrTotalKill]

7:47 .... did he just? With the spell? I mean, you can control your spells like this where it should go or it was just luck?

[@thisguy35]

yes for a fiew seconds

[@darkrite9000]

I think there's a few tweaks that could've made the army better, but ultimately it'd not make a big difference in my opinion. But it certainly performed well enough, and high elves have a lot more wiggle room for experimenting than other factions due to their high eco and fairly easy start.

[@Sivick314]

the seaguard are just a good filler unit for spam armies. i wouldn't build doomstacks around them, but i've seen them do some impressive things, especially against big flying monsters that think archers are tasty and get a face full of spears. the problem is that as satisfying as it is to see things get a face full of spears, sisters of avelorn just straight up kills those monsters before they can reach them.

[@mitchconnor7297]

I like a similar army with a few tweeks; Use Eltharion as the lord and upgrade his magic, the four nobles on hawks, and a bolt thrower instead of extra mage to allow the army to destroy a tower in siege attacks. If you level Eltharion up correctly, your seaguard will have something like 70 armor, 63 attack and 98 defense in battle, plus will never run out of ammo. Eltharion can mess the enemy around with magic, you have an airforce that can usually beat ai airforces, and the noblles are really good at sniping artillery, and distracting enemy missile units.

[@jeffvella9765]

Are they better than sisters? Short answer: NO Are they better than sister early game? Short answer: Yes Long answer: Adv over sisters: -slightly higher unit size = increased damage/s -have shields = beat sister or most other archers in a rage duel. -more mass = better at holding the line for the rest to shoot for longer. -cheaper = early on high elfs are not rich and thus money is a big factor where you can afford just a few armies. -accessible earlier = Have a stronger army earlier (unless you are playing with Avelorn which has SOA as early(tier 3 building) -anti large = better vs cavalry and monsters in melee -charge defense = sustain less damage from cavalry changes. DisAdv over sisters: -negligible AP damage = struggle against anything with armor including heros and lords. -Lower range = reduced damage/s -higher reload time = reduced damage/s -tighter formation = more vulnerable to most artillery and magic attacks -slower = harder to reposition and move it around mid battle which is very important for archer based armies So the long answer is that if you can get SOA just get them, if you can't, LSG can make do.

[@JagEterCoola]

IMO 2 armies of LSG is better than 1 army of SoA, since they're going to run you about the same amount and you can actually split those 2 armies apart and go to other places to go bully multiple weak foes instead of bringing a nuke to a nerf fight with SOA.

[@jeffvella9765]

@@JagEterCoola They cost the same in upkeep 212 base.(the one with shields) So it is twice as expensive + the 15% extra in supply lines per extra army you have. If you are talking about the normal LSG, it would be out of topic. But those guys cost 187, not far off from 212. Precisely 25 less and thus you are wrong, 2 stacks of LSG will cost twice as much as a SOA stack when you factor in supply lines.

[@jeffvella9765]

​@@JagEterCoola When I said cheaper, what I meant is that they are cheaper to recruit and more accessible locally since in the early game you would have only 1 lvl 4 city if any, and going back to to get SOA locally is expensive while it is very likely that a city you captured at LVL3 on the front line has access to LSG(shields) locally. SOA cost 1100 locally while LSG cost 850 locally. In this early to midgame part of your campaign it becomes expensive to switch to SOA until you have the economy for them and so you make do with what you have locally rather then recruit globally. My usual approach is that I use basic archers combined with maybe 2-4 LSG(shields) as front liners with 2-4 artillery. That is until the mid-lategame and my economy is ripe for a switch to SOA. Up to that point all my money is spent to boost my economy and I never have enough money.

[@myhorseisamazing5883]

12:30 u know there's dragon mount fire mages, right? :D ps: for fire one is even better for lsg or archer stack than light cause of flaming sword boost base damage

[@markus_gold]

Punitive actually increases your missile strenght up to 21%

[@崔莱]

So basically just a regular Kislev army XD

[@conradclassey4471]

If you just recorded a campaign with no edits. I would watch it.

[@edyburkay]

The main difference between them and sisters doomstack is, sisters need no boost they are good to go from get go

[@lordfenix17]

I hate that I went from heavily relying on the Lothern sea guard to damn near hating them for the price to performance, but I also still want to use them because *archer good in melee*

[@R3GARnator]

Sisters of Averlorn are also archers good in melee...

[@azeon562]

@@R3GARnator LSG also have silver shields and anti large+charge defence over SOA. Still doesn't make up for the damage difference from the ap+fire+magic arrows tho.

[@sassyviking6003]

Counterpoint for incendiary. It's primary job as a caster isn't melee, but why not allow it to do both effectively? Especially if mounted on a dragon with shores up the weapnesses of no ap damage, lower hp, and low armor quite nicely. Stack that with incendiary and your wizard is now a competent blender and a wizard at the same time. I still like it, especially on wizard lords.

[@aggeloszaxaroulis3334]

Insidenery is good for Mages only if they are fire Mages so they can get the dragon in my opinion

[@williamlong4262]

is that 542 mil gold in 130 turns????

[@MartynWilkinson45]

He's using the infinite income exploit Yvresse can pull off. Legend did a video on it, I think Mercythemad did one too. I personally prefer optimising game mechanics to an outright exploit like this, but each to their own.

[@DK-ep2ov]

If all HE LL were shit then yes Ardent would be great, but literally all of them are good so by the time you are making use of HE princes(ses) that 30% upkeep reduction doesnt mean anything if you use entrepreneur properly.

[@DanJimmy]

A hero got assassinated during end turn

[@benwilson1088]

Can someone explain why Tyrion gives a recruit stat buff to Sea Guard, but does not lower their upkeep?

[@2142clonewars]

Anyone know why a hero disappeared after the end turn was done? The hero still had health in the after battle report.

[@ivanthekingiii9857]

“No resilient trait in here” scrolls right passed one

[@LegendofTotalWar]

I was looking for resistant not resilient

[@unteejo3678]

Since when melee stat of infantry can be a doomstack. Time sure flies fast, yet this game still has so much more to explore (exploit).

[@josh8945]

If Tyrion Led them they could've been even more Op

[@fukyomammason]

The Ardent trait is a big part of why this army is great, and only Princesses get it. It gives the LSG extra range.

[@MrUppa]

financially OP

[@alexeyalexandrov7583]

Nope, Tyrion doesn't buff their range, also the princess on a dragon is a siege attacker

[@blackkitty_42]

holy mother of god.. that amount of money...

[@scottp4357]

how does the dude have 542m gold?

[@richardhall581]

Yep - what's the deal here?

[@SWtaervdesn]

6.5 to 7.5. The strength wasn't in the Sea guard it was in the heroes. "Ardent" lord trait is inferior to "Punitive" lord trait becasue the Sea Guard damaged the Lizardmen less than they could have. The only unit that could reach further with their missiles than the Sea Guard were the Salamanders but judging by their damage output they were not a seriious threat.

[@aristotelsb8874]

My favorite high elf doomstack is Eltharion, fire mage, two resistant handmaidens, 12 sentinels of astaril and 4 eagle claw bolt throwers. In the final Grom Battle you just sit in invisibility in the corner and shoot down all the orc forces

[@alexeyalexandrov7583]

I suggest to try 6 Sisters + 6 Sentinels instead of 12 Sentinels. You'll see that Sisters even without red line buffs actually perform better than Sentinels.

[@Tobbi2402]

I never really understood how their Shield work, or when they are active. Because while shooting a bow, you cant really hold a big Shield so, are they only shielded on their back, while fireing and in melee mode?

[@alexeyalexandrov7583]

Shield is still applied even when shooting. That's why LSG beat almost every other archer unit in a duel.

[@nathanpitek3177]

Hey legend, when we getting a lizardman legendary lord power comparison?

[@trev6783]

I personally think LSG are the best early game unit for the high elves. You are basically getting an archer and spearman in one unit.. yes it cost more, however there are some cases were an archer only spam can get you in trouble and if you do a spear/archer combo, you may or may not have the right amount of either.. With the LSG, you basically have a unit that can do the job of either.. That said, not feeling the doom stack so much.. Sisters of Averlorn are just flat out better.. Some quantity of elite infantry or monsters could be boosted in the same fashion and you would then have superior infantry and superior ranged than this stack.

[@AlexMarth]

more like Noble doomstack

[@SuperDominic4]

Can you put 2 Lords in one army? Ardent and Punative?

[@ufc990]

That made me think someone should make a mod where you can play a campaign with a doom stack made of legendary lords.... might be interestingly op...

[@manpersal]

@@ufc990 20 Punitive princesses on star dragons buffing their missile damage to 200% and supressing any missile resistance the enemy could have. Sounds balanced to me.

[@ZackTanTYZ]

Two things that make LSG good is that it's an army that can be fielded earlier that SOA since it makes uses of military slot that also fields archers. Another thing, is that boasted shielded LSG can fared better against large and monster heavy factions like Norsca or Brettonia while also trade missile fire better since they're shielded, all the while being a unit lower tiered than SOA.

[@svenbrede6151]

Don't the mistwalker traits matter for this army a lot?

[@maevethefox5912]

They buff the characters up, but I don't think the Sentinel trait passes on to the army? I may be mistaken though.

[@manofculture4938]

There should be much more forest maps like this one. In almost the entire game you see enormous forests but the actuall battle maps are all fields. Even the one that do have forests normaly have so little of them that they are pointless. It ruins immersion and all tactics reliant on woods.

[@chiph3086]

7.5/10, I feel like Sea Guard wilt to easily even on normal difficulty. I just go spears and archers despite being slightly more expensive

[@donkey9113]

is the reload time for LSG and SOA the same?

[@BB8enjoyer]

isn't this the unit you said to never recruit

[@IZn0g0uDatAll]

How do you get half a billion in the bank by turn 130, making only 26000 per turn?

[@corvidwrangler]

Yvresse has an exploit for getting money through captured lords.

[@IZn0g0uDatAll]

@@corvidwrangler Oh. Doesn't that comply ruin the game? I don't see the point.

[@For4BF]

I never know what to do with this unit, should I replace my archers with it? Or spearmen? (Sorry I used to play total war as a kid but that is long long ago )

[@jamescpalmer]

Think of them as Roman dudes who throw spears, but instead of spears then shoot arrows. Totally brokenly good unit. Replace all your spearmen with lothern seaguard and keep your early game archers for a medium/late game army that monsters everything that doesn't have artillery.

[@ordoorion]

How did he get 4 honed?

[@bravozero6]

Im new to warhammer also have been a historical tw player. How the hell do you counter chaos doom stacks with nothing but monsters on legendary?? Ended my campaign several times

[@TheNoodleGod9001]

Depends on the faction.

[@bravozero6]

@@TheNoodleGod9001 high elves

[@jamescpalmer]

Stack a bunch of anti large and they'll take care of themselves. Cannons/AP Missles/Spears/Anti large traits will wreck a monster stack comprehensively.

[@USHIQUE]

swap light with flame wizard> flaming sword of ruin > kindle flame..... MELT

[@sassyviking6003]

And this is a much bigger boost to LSG that SoA if we are comparing because the flaming sword of ruin is based damage, not AP. And SoA are already flaming and magical so they gain no bonus from that. It does tilt things in favor of LSG especially when you factor their shields and lower cost.

[@HypnoChode]

Did he just aim that banishment by click dragging?

[@eathr349]

I need answers

[@Boxfortress]

During his grimgor stream like 3 weeks ago he found out you can influence the *initial* direction vortex spells. They will still go in random directions after tho.

[@eathr349]

@@Boxfortress interesting

[@antonioarcano7989]

Lothern sea guard are one of the most broken units in WH2... yet they never fixed them.

[@jayhhh]

I dont think this is better than a sister of averlorn stack because they don't do magic damage. If your going up against har ganeth (who u will) with 40% physical restiance then it won't do that much damage but other than that, I would rate it 7.5

[@JagEterCoola]

By this logic, would SoA not lose points because they're weak towards Ironbreakers/Irondrakes? Shooting at a Shielded unit with 25% Magic 25% Fire resistance Isn't fun.

[@jayhhh]

@@JagEterCoola yes but u shouldn't be going up against dwarfs other than the the ones in Lustria (who get wiped out) because u can easily befriend them

[@duncan2703]

Smells a little bit cheesy when i look at the cash flow xd

[@FreeSpirit985]

I was about to write something wannabe-clever about this stack being stronger in Autoresolve than in battle, and how this might discourage the AI from accepting battle unless with overwhelming force etcetera... but this was an easy autoresolve win DEFENSE, so... oh, well

[@huntermad5668]

Need heroes to boost. sisters don't need that