Peter Hitchens on why Boris Johnson leads "a hard left government", English independence and Ukraine

[@OwenJonesTalks]

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[@julianshepherd2038]

Call yourself a Marxist and you locate the problem in Putin's head!!!

[@parallaxview6770]

Always nice to see Peter destroy you in such a warm relaxed manner : )

[@lauriesouth4783]

@@parallaxview6770 Destroy? Hitchens tries to cut Owen off whenever Owen presents Hitchens with a challenge. Hitchens isn't really interested in learning anything that challenges his view, which isn't the mark of an 'intellectual'. If you watch again you'll see Hitchens always dismisses something that doesn't fit his view by saying he doesn't know anything about it, e.g. Norway's rehabilitative approach to criminality. To not know anything about that particular issue (while having written a book on the subject!) and then ignore the evidence presented betrays him and his narrow mindedness.

[@ennesshay5040]

35:35 - I though you'd just interviewed Chomsky ? Back up info ~ the 6min 56sec video ''Noam Chomsky on Ukraine, Russia & NATO,'' by UkeTube [from 2015] / the 1.52 ''Modern day Nostradamus predicted Ukraine situation in 2015,'' by Gordon Dimmack [a John Mearsheimer clip] and the 6.14 ''Weapons 4 Ukraine {& Military Industrial Complex},'' by Matt Orfalea.

[@julianshepherd2038]

@@lauriesouth4783 he's an old boxer , past his best, taking on a man at his peak. He's holding onto Owen and hoping for a luck shot. His basic argument re Ukraine is sound.

[@Riktenstein]

It's refreshing to see two people not agreeing on different issues, but prepared to have a discussion.

[@jeremysmith8035]

I am starting to think that hitchens is seriously mentally unstable .the tory government is the most right wing in UK history

[@dooda77penn19]

Yeah of course, I wonder why Jones refusers to debate Douglas murray 🤔, wrong type of gay I suspect.

[@mat900ft]

He talks to possibly the only person in the world that would disagree with their own reflection. How about talking to Graham Linehan?

[@johnlewis9158]

@@dooda77penn19 More to the point why is Jones hated in equal measure by both the right and the authentic left. Indeed the socialist George Galloway who has risen in my estimation of late absolutely despises Jones and everything he stands for. The answer of course lies in the fact that Jones is in reality a neoliberal indeed his views on just everything are identical to that of Californian Shitlib

[@dannffc]

Owens part in this is minimal, apart from his several displays of ignorance, lack of context and general self awareness. Hitchens is leagues ahead on rationality, history, facts and education.

[@Georgethenorthseatiger]

We need a show where Hitchens and Jones do a road trip of Europe

[@benvids]

Yes and Jones can continue to not grasp the current political climate, abroad!

[@garrywynne1218]

🤔😳🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@wendywolfman]

@@benvids yes. He will be like something something proletariat. Something something power to the people.

[@richards9407]

In a camper van? Or on Harley Davidsons?

[@halasipipacs]

Have wanted to see Peter Hitchens on a lecture tour of Europe for a long time. It'll never happen, unfortunately

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

My politics couldn't be further from yours Owen, but I watch you for things like this. Keep it up!

[@joshua.910]

@@JupiterThunder 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@joshua.910]

@@JupiterThunder do you realise that just by commenting you've earned him money from youtube ad revenue?

[@jamescarr4662]

@@JupiterThunder oh chill out..

[@markgatto5826]

It is always essential viewing when Owen interviews and spars with Peter Hitchens. This is how a proper debates should happen and it should be shared widely as an antidote to echo chamber rants. Thank you!

[@kevinb9830]

wasn't much of a spar, Peter ko'd him in the 1st round!

[@aarongranville2017]

“spars”😂😂😂

[@spoorn1]

'Spars'? A chopstick against a lance makes a poor excuse of a joust.

[@aelfricofcedde363]

The two of you should have a weekly slot, it seems increasingly (and depressingly) rare for people with such divergent opinions to engage in such a civilised way.

[@CarboKill]

I support this. I'm very socially conservative Christian, though with a largely case-by-case non-ideological opinion on many social issues highlighted by progressivism, and though I disagree with Peter on quite a few things, I still of course mainly disagree with Owen on pretty much everything, and yet I would watch a weekly conversation between these two without fail, every single week. They're both outspoken, it would be tremendous. So much more interesting than any other lame and tired punditry going on.

[@truthseeker8959]

@@CarboKill wasn’t really a conversation though was it? A boy being schooled by a man🥴

[@User0resU-1]

@@truthseeker8959 and the boy was irritating. Asks a question, doesn't like where the answer is going, butts in and offers his own answer.

[@crayons1878]

Hitchens is not a civilised person

[@Medafets]

It really is a joy hearing you two having ongoing conversations. I hope there’s a lot more in the future

[@harryantino]

Peter and Owen do seem to bring out the best in each other.

[@nowthenzen]

lol

[@hunterhemingway3477]

Owen is perfectly aware that he lacks the knowledge and experience to challenge the old fart.

[@truthseeker8959]

I don’t think being schooled by a more informed commentator is “ bringing out the best”!😂

[@Beelzeboogie]

@@truthseeker8959 Ah, keep it vague about who's getting schooled. Clever.

[@malcolmmitchell4709]

@@Beelzeboogie We all knew it was the one who resembles a schoolboy who was being schooled. Jones should stay in his Guardian safespace if he doesn't want to get exposed.

[@MartinBroadhurst]

This is a channel that I dip in and out of but I could watch Owen and Peter in conversation all day long.

[@matthewmcguinness3651]

Your back and forth with Peter is once again a joy to listen to :)

[@guitari666]

As a (boring/moderate) centre-left person, I have to say these chats you've had with Peter really make me think and help me get a more rounded view. Thanks Owen and team!

[@TheJohnCooperShow]

Most people start off centre left then As people learn more and develop they move more right. So you’ve got time!

[@patcampton9799]

@@TheJohnCooperShow and some of us move from.centre left to hard left without changing our views one bit.

[@jamesjohnson2394]

Centre-left is not "moderate'. You murder millions of people worldwide supporting US hegemony and backing capitalist dictatorship everywhere and try and pass yourself off as nice by saying fluffy things about minorities

[@TheJohnCooperShow]

@@patcampton9799 yes,unfortunately there are always some people misled who are beyond help

[@funkystuf23]

Christian is just warped in the head

[@stewartcohen-jones2949]

When I was younger I disliked Hitchens with a venom. He symbolised everything I was against. His pomposity, if there to annoy , certainly worked on me. As I’ve matured I’ve grown to respect him as a voice. I still disagree with much of what he says but his stance is much more nuanced than I gave him credit for. His views on the Iraq war for instance stand out and in this interview his , dare I say it , compassionate summary of Powell’s closing of mental health institutions dares us to give this man our full attention to the end.

[@Alan-ou8tf]

Hitchens is superb.

[@JimFyfe-tb2df]

I agree 100% with everything you have said. The anger I felt towards him for his political views initially has gradually subsided. This is based on the fact that he is one of only a few political commentators who is able to communicate and debate in a very calm and nuanced way, which a large percentage of the population find it very hard to do without it descending into abuse and personal attacks. Whilst I still disagree with everything he believes in, he has my respect for being open to this type of political debate and to put his point across in a very eloquent way. The UK population could learn a lot about how you can debate politics from two polar opposite points of view, whilst remaining respectful to each other. You are never going to change each other's mind when you are so fundamentally different in your political views, which I think is where people go wrong when trying to debate politics, but these sorts of conversations are essential for both sides in developing a deeper understanding of why people have the views that they do, and how you articulate your arguments, beyond the tribal soundbites that seem to be the only way many people are able to put their point across.

[@MB-fy8oz]

Props to Owen for helping to generate more Hitchens content

[@euan7166]

Props to Mr Jones for generating more Mr Hitchens content.

[@MB-fy8oz]

@@euan7166 Yes

[@WHEATLEY007]

@@euan7166 I'll

[@hisalexness8478]

I love Peter Hitchens! This was a great conversation! 👏

[@ajs41]

It's great to see people who don't agree with each other having a civilised conversation.

[@Barry101er]

Made me feel nostalgic, actually

[@Ma55ey]

they cut out the bar brawl at the end :D

[@sanchezz4387]

It's called democracy

[@santino4561]

Yes too often people take things mega personally if someone disagrees with their political opinion. Like their political opinions are part of their personality so to disagree with an opinion they have is to dislike the person him/herself

[@susannamarker2582]

So unlike the media-driven House of Commons.

[@henryjackson2453]

I rather like Peter Hitchens. And after watching this, I also (now) like Owen Jones. Two opposites willing to have a civilized discussion to inspire thought is rather rare. Bravo.

[@jonathanwilde5337]

Not a fan of yours, Owen, but I do appreciate you reaching out and interviewing people who don't agree. Glad you uploaded

[@danw9464]

100% agree. Shows some maturity and integrity.

[@AleXoEx0]

They're part of the same tribe so more likely to engage with eachother.

[@St-ho8kj]

@@AleXoEx0 is Jones a )ew?

[@AleXoEx0]

@@St-ho8kj yes

[@DIBBY40]

I think Hitchens is right. We quite often get angry over the wrong things. People were angry about Johnson partying, but not about his disastrous lockdown policy.

[@adambritain5774]

But that's intentional though. They make people be mad at 'this' thing so they don't worry about 'that' thing.

[@MaherRo24]

@@adambritain5774 Exactly.

[@dag3014]

It's not that the lockdown was disastrous. People are more angry about partying because he didn't even follow his own lockdown rules. It shows utter contempt for the British public who were forcefully locked down.

[@adambritain5774]

@@dag3014 Point proven.

[@castelodeossos3947]

People were angry about Johnson partying because it was blatant hypocrisy; people have not been as angry about his disastrous lockdown policy perhaps because they accept that neither he nor they, at the time, had any idea how to deal with the pandemic. The government could only flail in the dark, because the data they were getting were too much and contradictory. The former wrongdoing was moral whereas the latter was excusable ignorance.

[@patrickselden5747]

A fascinating and civilised conversation, gents - thank you. ☝️😎

[@BryceDoherty]

This should be an annual meet up. Always interesting discussions from opposing sides of politics. We need more civil discourse in society.

[@kvnmackenzie]

Wonderful interview, great chemistry between you two. Thank you bringing this!

[@colinloves]

I cant agree. Defo was the last time. But this time, Owen was clearly getting pissed off with him

[@claudiahamminger-stone3274]

There is absolutely no chemistry between the two men. The superficial cordiality you observe is Hitchens being masterfully patient with a snarky, self obsessed, less well informed gnat.

[@BlyatimirPootin]

@@claudiahamminger-stone3274 lol so Hitchens continued talking over Jones is acceptable?

[@BlyatimirPootin]

@@sirhumphreyappleby6498 I disagree

[@divadseivad205]

Thank you Owen for interviewing Peter and allowing him to trace the decline of the UK .

[@hadleywells-west532]

Rewatching this in 2024, probably for the fourth time or so. Genuinely has to be one of my favourite discussions on KZbin. Hitchens and Jones are just about as far away politically from each other as any other duo, and yet they are able to sit down respectfully and discuss some of the most pressing issues facing this country and the world. Bravo!

[@WildOwlFilms]

Great interview again. The one you did with Peter 7 years ago was brilliant. I don't agree with all what Peter has to say but he always does say some interesting and thoughtful things. There were a number of things that he said which were spot on. Libya 🇱🇾 and Cameron getting a free pass. Would the Manchester Arena bombing have occurred if Libya hadn't been attacked? Sadly also absolutely correct about mental health and prisons.

[@jk28416]

if we can some how cut out all the parts of Owen jones then I think the interview was fantastic. Jones really is a pointless establishment neo-con.

[@andymeakin4263]

On some issues they agreed on the diagnosis of the disease but had polar opposite views about it's causes and cures. A case in point in the criminal justice system about which Owen was more convincing.

[@jk28416]

@@andymeakin4263 it was quite funny when Owen claimed to be ‘radical left’, and Hitchens was or is the real radical left. I could hear Hitchens chuckle internally at that one.

[@AleXoEx0]

Only in the west are we insane enough to take in mass refugees from countries we've formally declared war on in recent history.

[@scottsnell6538]

Peter Hitchens and Owen Jones are the most interesting duo in British political commentary. They need their own show.

[@markgillespie3971]

Agree, I've found both of their discussions fascinating, though I doubt they could tolerate each other on a regular basis.

[@BN-hk6wf]

Half right certainly.

[@uosdwis-r-dewoh14]

I can't help but love Peter Hitchens.

[@clairedoylebooks]

He seems so convivial for a curmudgeon.

[@AS-lo6xo]

Damn. When you really learn more about the history of Russia and Ukraine, you get a better perspective of how it came to be. Deep talk. Thank you.

[@xxvxxv5588]

This history could have many different interpretations. In Ukraine which is my country historical ties between Ukraine and Russia are usually seen as ties between tbe oppressed and the oppressor.

[@konspiracykid]

Well done on this interview. I'm quite left wing, but always read and watch right wing outlets to see what they're saying. I enjoyed watching this 👍

[@LuisCarruthers]

If only more people on the left did that.

[@melgriffin3437]

What an intelligent and gracious man Peter Hitchens is.

[@alien4422]

🤣🤣🤣

[@ReginaldArthurWolfe]

Firs time in years I’ve seen Owen do a proper interview and employ reasonable disagreement. Keep growing mate, we don’t agree on 99% of things, but conducting yourself like this commands respect.

[@edmundflett474]

The Jones-Hitchens chats are always great. I genuinely think he likes/respects you Owen!

[@katiemiaana]

I think they both have thought through their principles and you can respect that even if you disagree

[@lewdchew]

Like watching your own child making the same mistakes he did id expect. I can’t stand Owen but I really respect this exit from his echo chamber, and he does it more regularly than most.

[@greensquare6235]

@@katiemiaana Funny when Owen brought up South America Hitchens' principles mysteriously disappeared.

[@vaclavmiller8032]

Peter is perhaps the only deliverer of a genuinely well-considered conservative worldview in the modern media landscape.

[@burtingtune]

Well said.

[@pseudonayme7717]

I mean, the title alone should tell you he is not playing with a full deck. He's literally just saying "left equals bad, and this stuff the tories are doing is bad so it must be left-wing" Just insane drivel.

[@vaclavmiller8032]

@Chase Williams I agree with Roger Scruton (RIP), but Murray is a charlatan/lightweight and Starkey hasn't a clue about serious politics - the latter two are just kneejerk bigots.

[@timhall3575]

I respectfully disagree. I think he spouts knee jerk, reductive, out-dated & offensive views fuelled by his Christian faith. I think he's cold and calculated and works his position well - appealing to his Mail on Sunday readership... for £s..

[@hazelwray4184]

@Chase Williams Murray and Starkey are loathsome.

[@rayfinkel4434]

This is a fantastic chat with Peter, I think this man is a national treasure, you may not always agree with him but u can always see where he’s coming from.

[@Rhiannonbran]

Peter is making a lot of sense, great debate, thanks to both

[@vincentsheehan3193]

I have a new found respect and liking for Owen Jones. I don’t agree with him on much - but I do appreciate his willingness to listen respectfully & engage with others of vastly differing opinions. I wish there could be more convivial debate like this!

[@kevinb9830]

Shame he wasn't in that frame of mind with Douglas Murray.

[@user-gf3wn1ne9n]

Not when it's women with differing opinions.

[@MrRailjunkie]

@@kevinb9830 If your referring to Sky News Owen refused to do all media interviews at the time & then someone started a lie that Owen refused to go on & debate Douglas which is a lie because Owen didn't even know Douglas would be there.

[@kieranthomson1424]

I find myself rarely agreeing with Owen Jones but I have massive respect for him for talking to people he doesn't agree with. A more reasonable voice of the left which is very refreshing.

[@duncefunce1513]

Yeah, his positions are always reasonable

[@robertoduenas5346]

Totally agree, its admirable that he’s willing to talk to people who think differently. Its shameful that we even make a big deal of this, it youst shows how bad things have gotten in the west.

[@bfoster417]

Fantastic, love listening to Peter Hitchens even though I don't agree with him.

[@kamilziemian995]

I love listening to Peter Hitchens.

[@bevboyz]

always enjoy these conversations between peter and owen. sensible and courteous exchange.

[@Suscida]

Best Owen Jones video I’ve watched, Peter, an actual intellect

[@harald6452]

I am glad Owen had this opportunity to learn!

[@ltmund]

So refreshing to hear an actual discussion rather than a 'panel' of heads all with the same opinion

[@davespiller684]

Peter Hitchens is always great to listen to because he's an original mind. It's rather ironic that his elder brother is sometimes considered the epitomy of individualistic intellect, because Peter is far more independent.

[@tonytroiani6599]

Peter Hitchens is in another reality. When question time was worth watching, Peter was a regular and I listened to what he had to say on many occasion, he hasn't ever given me cause for hope. How he assumes the poor should put up with their lot and behave themselves, come what may, he dismisses the reality that crime will always follow poverty and this is why. When you have nothing and your disparate you do your best to survive, that may mean petty theft, shoplifting, drugs which for both men and women may also mean prostitution, homelessness, and begging. Yes I almost forgot, all beggers are professional! with a flashy car parked at the other end of the road. You see Peter has never had to struggle for anything. So I have to ask the question, what qualfies Peter Hitchens to have any views regarding the poor?

[@Alv11269]

@@tonytroiani6599 Same way it qualifies a person to object to the Bombing of Bosnia in 95. Just because someone is doing something it doesn't seem to be right or proper to not care or else give one's views. Last I checked no one has put a gun to your head for you to have a listen to the following conversation.

[@JayeshPatel-ct5ps]

I loved the rigorous discussion on Ukraine, both made strong points, especially Peter to be honest.

[@JayeshPatel-ct5ps]

@Somewhatskeptical Owen made some really strong points too, when explaining how a Russian 'defensive' response against NATO viewed from the West may actually be experienced very differently by people who actually live in Russia or near its borders.

[@greensquare6235]

Peter Hitchens' refusal to be pinned down on his principles when Owen compared Ukraine to South American countries made me lose some respect for him.

[@JayeshPatel-ct5ps]

@@greensquare6235 ok, but that comparison is too simple if we accept NATO is an influence in the conflict. The US does what it does in South America with no opposing hostile military alliance present. Imagine for example if China set up military bases in Venezuela or Bolivia, then we can start to make comparisons. Their disagreement was about provocation.

[@thejfoshow1320]

@Somewhatskeptical eh, Hitchens is more confident than Owen so comes across better but Owen was mostly more right than him. Hitchens obviously tried to make Owen uncomfortable and play on his anxiety and it makes him look better than he is

[@nickstevens9172]

@@thejfoshow1320 impressive cope.

[@happyhedgehog6450]

What a cracking conversation. I could listen to these two for days.

[@jplabre]

I salute you Owen. That wasn't an easy interview! What a character that Peter!

[@AlexLoveLizard]

I love these interviews. It is refreshing to see two people disagree but stay civil.. it's also very refreshing to listen to a small (c)onservative speak plainly and clearly about their beliefs. I wish more right wingers spoke as truthfully to their own convictions.

[@GMADDEN]

Literally been waiting for this for ages - loved your last chat!

[@bertrodgers2420]

I've been a fan of Peter's for many years, so I appreciate you doing things like this even with people you don't always agree with

[@richardcrook2112]

He's useless here. Approaches the subject of immigration then changes the subject whilst cuddling himself. Lame. 13:25

[@willr4217]

This was actually a really helpful chat. I’ve always wanted to pull all of my hair out

[@willr4217]

It’s like arguing with an eel

[@formercrow5242]

"well I dont know about that" Hitchens way of dodging around a legitimate point and moving onto a non-sequitur. Interesting but absolutely infuriating Hitchens is a master of avoiding answering any question directly.

[@nickstevens9172]

@@formercrow5242 or of simply showing restraint in not commenting on things he actually does not know about instead of the far more prevalent tendency of jumping to ill informed conclusions?

[@TalonAshlar]

Thank you for mentioning John Mearsheimer Peter his work on the US origins of the Ukraine conflict are fascinating to watch.

[@waerlogauk]

They both missed the point of the real issue with party gate. The parties while illegal were politically trivial, the real issue was the lying to Parliament which still hasn't been addressed.

[@importantjohn]

There is no evidence he lied to Parliament. He said he 'believed the rules had been followed'. Perfectly feasible and impossible to prove either way. If you want to attack Boris Johnson for his politics, do so. Don't make up tittle tattle

[@progressivedemagogue8480]

​@@importantjohn John you're a bit thick

[@waerlogauk]

@@importantjohn If we are to believe the 'believed the rules had been followed' then he is clearly too stupid to hold any office.

[@famalam943]

I think most people didn’t care because most people broke the rules themselves and done similar things. The only people upset were the ones who were teachers pets at school

[@WalterKhayyam]

But as had been pointed out, Tony Blair told that we could be dead within 45 minutes due to Saddam's WMDs.

[@sticksman1979]

You can’t hassle the Hitch. Bravo getting together again Owen!

[@harrykelly7648]

“I want you engage with this point” “No” Lmao

[@solarpunk7660]

What a gentleman!

[@free9200]

lmao

[@chrisruss9861]

Owen is a spirited character who in challenging Peter enables him to reveal the depth of his knowledge and singular viewpoint.

[@petermanuel5043]

Thanks, I could have listened to another hour of this

[@mjw8218]

Respect for a havin a convo with opposing points of view, rather than the norm of media staying to their own tribes these days, where hosts and guests completely agree with each other. I want the days of Vidal vs Buckley again!

[@roberttreborable]

Great to hear we can Thank Ian Hislop and Paul Merton, for Boris Johnson being P.M.

[@gamingwithslacker]

Thanks for this. Love Peter , and quite like Owen.

[@FortunePodcast]

You two really are a dream combo

[@JoBo301]

Tea, cake, Peter Hitchens and Owen Jones in polite, gentlemanly conversation - what a winning combination!

[@iainholmes2735]

Really interesting interview. Nice setting too. I really enjoyed the opening chapter of 'The Abolition of Britain' when Peter described how a person from 1997 might feel if they were transported back to 1965. Very thought-provoking.

[@playcloudpluspc]

Amazing, thank you. Of all the things you can call Peter Hitchens you can't possibly call him boring, uneducated or unintelligent.

[@TartanABU]

Hitchens seems to be entirely unable/unwilling to test his assumptions. Every answer is "I don't know - I have never looked into it". So he just goes thru life with a set of ingrained attitudes and untested assumptions. He's lauded as an intellectual, but an intellectual would at least be willing to find out whether their deeply held beliefs stood up to scrutiny.

[@jgmediting7770]

He knows his deeply held beliefs wouldn’t stand up. This is his flaw, that destroys any credibility of his views, analysis and arguments. His feelings and economic interests matter more than facts.

[@hazelwray4184]

Owen looked weak on the issue of Ukraine: Inconsistent, a weak grasp of the history and a lack of analytical rigour

[@Ruda-n4h]

Of course they stand up to scrutiny and you can't speak on a subject unless you know about it.

[@jgmediting7770]

@@Ruda-n4h do they hell. Unless you’re talking about something very specific.

[@graemecreegan6749]

He appears anachronistic because refuses to give an uninformed opinion. He talks very well on subjects which he has researched deeply for his many books.

[@johnnymac2143]

Very enjoyable interview. Thanks Owen. Hitchens has a huge intellect and measured wisdom. He speaks a lot of sense.

[@IanBourneMusic]

But also much drivel

[@johnmason9045]

But oddly doesn't seem to understand what 400 enemy tanks rolling towards a foreign capital could possibly mean

[@johnmason9045]

Having said that, I very much enjoyed the conversation. How I wish his brother was still around so you could share a conversation with him

[@danieljohnson1924]

Very educational. Thanks for making this video Owen Jones.

[@BlyatimirPootin]

Anything left of Thatcher is far left these days.

[@Coolrunnings007]

Funny enough he is not really a fan of her lol

[@owenthompson5214]

Tories support sex education for 3 year olds so yeah they're far left

[@BlyatimirPootin]

@@sparkymmilarky I know it is

[@BlyatimirPootin]

@@sparkymmilarky I've heard some rubbish before but that's comical

[@BlyatimirPootin]

@Emperor Shaddam IV believe that and you'll believe anything

[@peterstephenson9538]

Keep this twosome going, tackle particular issues in depth, including general philosophical basis for taking various positions on the political spectrum.

[@bharmalmVGC]

frankly i want this to go beyond politics i want a buddy cop movie

[@eugenemurray2940]

'Hitchens and Owens' Mmmmm Starsky and Hutch comes to mind 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@TheGinglymus]

I love that you two can have these conversations

[@SpirosPagiatakis]

I thought Peter Hitchens wanted to live in the 1950s, I now understand he wants to live during the end of the 19th century. On the other hand he is correct about the Ukraine situation.

[@hazelwray4184]

Perhaps the 18th Century, Lol.

[@grahamhorne6956]

I don't hold with Hitchens Christian conservatism but he's a far sighted journalist. He has always maintained that NATO should have been dismantled in 1991-2 when there was no further need for it. He advocates getting rid of nuclear weapons on the grounds of affordability. He acknowledges the stupidity of rail privatisation and the need for an integrated nationally owned and run railway. Socially conservative does not mean politically conservative. He's probably the most far sighted and progressive writer/journalist by a country mile.

[@BlyatimirPootin]

Well only in so much that the first shots were fired in 2014. However the invasion was inevitable since the break up of the USSR.

[@giansideros]

@@grahamhorne6956 he only has those views on rail because he's a season ticket holding commuter, crammed in the vestibule like the rest of us plebs during peak time and paying through the nose for that privilege for chronically late trains. If he bothered to drive, he'd be just like any other Tory on that issue.

[@seanmoran2743]

@@BlyatimirPootin No it wasn’t

[@VinkoMojtic]

Oh what a great conversation. Pure joy.

[@PottersbyInnes]

I always have a severe case of cognitive dissonance about Peter Hitchens. Hate his politics but would love to have a pint with him.

[@EYDuff]

read my mind haha

[@kerigriffiths8780]

Hmm...the wrong brother died. Harsh but true.

[@duxnihilo]

He's lovable and genuine. However "Boris is hard left" is sooooo bizarre.

[@kerigriffiths8780]

@@MontyCantsin5 da boi hate weed bruh. Seriously though, I share the sentiment of the original comment...I like Peter. Christopher was better though.

[@Jaco059]

@@duxnihilowhat makes him a conservative in the US he 100% considered a lefty your whole government is you don’t have real conservatives in spite inventing conservatism.

[@harrymayo7714]

I hate Owen Jones but this is a bloody interesting talk from both sides - fair play both. Pls do again

[@valq10]

21:32 I've heard this idea that 'we didn't used to have romantic love' a number of times, and it is total baloney. Just because people didn't write about it till the Chivalric Age doesn't mean people didn't experience it.

[@robertjordan355]

I think Owen meant it in terms of a general organising social principle rather than an emotional phenomenon. People fell in love romantically, of course, but were often compelled to marry others due to social pressure. Many 19th century novels are about just this contradiction

[@danstratford5599]

Just 15mins in but what a joy it is to see a left wing and a right wing commentator having an intelligent discussion instead of screaming at each other like 2 year olds!

[@Mattythebassman]

Hitchens is absolutely correct on Ukraine, wether or not you think Russia's invasion was justified they had been provoked to no end since the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[@Screaming-Trees]

^^^This. Provocation isn't limited to physical violence. That's just one form of provocation (grossest one obviously).

[@FiveLiver]

So you support Russia. The so-called 'provocation' is just a pretext for Putin getting what he wants, no different from Hitler's.

[@tomo_xD]

That's like saying a raped woman provoked her rapist by wearing lipstick and a dress.

[@stevendavies2262]

Thank you Peter for just speaking the truth plainly

[@BlyatimirPootin]

Or his opinion anyway

[@kebro85]

Your best interviews are always with people you fundamentally disagree with. I'd like to see another one with Jacob Rees Mogg.

[@mikeball7606]

But Peter Hitchens is intelllegent, although I disagree with many of his conclusions, he does make me question my own positions. However, Rees Mogg is utterly thick and the exchange, should it occur, would be far less informative or thought-provoking.

[@Barry101er]

@@mikeball7606 My thought exactly. For example, PH’s comment about Powell’s hand in the dismantling of the mental heath system-interesting, if true.

[@user-gu1un7pb7k]

@@mikeball7606 But he has a well posh voice and wears aristocrat clothing!!!!

[@jam357]

@@mikeball7606 he’s already interviewed him, it was pretty cordial

[@nickfletcher4132]

I have a lot of respect for old Mr Hitchins.

[@conors4430]

Peters logic is, I’m a Conservative, I don’t agree with the current Conservative party, therefore they are hard left, because admitting that they might be closer bedfellows to my own ideology is too difficult for me to admit.

[@persianwingman]

When gay marriage was topical, Peter’s reasoning against it was there’d be no advantage to straight marriage if gay people could also get married 🤨 He’s an interesting guy and sometimes overlaps with left politics but he’s often contrarian for the sake of it.

[@MontyCantsin5]

@persianwungman: Exactly. Much of what PH says is contrarian for the sake of being contrarian which is a bit pathetic.

[@thomasdavid7364]

The Tories are communists though, he's right

[@JamesMc2051]

@@MontyCantsin5 That's the danger of being a talking head who gets paid for opinions. It doesn't take long to cotton on that provocative opinions generate more interest than measured ones and to, consciously or subconsciously, realign a little from that. I doubt he or most others delve into that entirely and become entirely insincere and flippant but there must be a slight skewering of opinions as you become more performative for the audience.

[@MontyCantsin5]

@@JamesMc2051: Yes, I definitely agree with that and it's something I've been thinking about more recently when it comes to the views Peter Hitchens espouses. It's hard to ignore the idea that he is just putting forward daft opinions because that will generate more attention.

[@Taporeee]

ABSOLUTELY MORAL interview

[@forstudentpower]

Wild for Peter Hitchens to say that he doesn't have a political program, but also support English independence. He is clearly making his critiques, as all of us do, from a specific political point of view. Hitchens thinks his posture as an amused bystander absolves him of making his position and commitments clear, but it doesn't.

[@greensquare6235]

I think he's just saying he's not taking action.

[@alg7115]

His English independence support is more of a meta joke.

[@therealcbp]

This is such excellent and refreshing content.

[@deanelsbury3014]

It's always interesting listening to someone from the Victorian times.

[@ManForToday]

Then you don't know anything about him.

[@abraxis20]

He's more of a 1950's guy really.

[@RobinNandi]

When he needed a metaphor for "getting humiliated" his choice was "getting a chamber pot poured over the head" 😆

[@lilmissnoname1905]

@Gibsoned Yeah. As long as you were a white, middle class man. If you were a woman or a minority of any kind, you were screwed. And let’s not talk about how this “civilised society “ treated the poor! Apart from that, I take your point.

[@sratus]

Great discussion again.

[@mustafaalawad8348]

Peter Hitchens is an honorable gentleman. 👍🏽 respect

[@Heretican]

Enoch Powell isnt loathed for his Rivers of Blood speech, it was evidently a prophetic one

[@ukflightsimmer2732]

Really like jones interviews , also a nice conversation with no gotcha rubbish Do follow hitch also , although I disagree with a fair few things from him, I find him really interesting

[@eugenemurray2940]

Once the family is finally destroyed We will all love big brother

[@jackrabbitism]

The Pessimist said to the Optimist “Things are terrible. They can’t get any worse.” The Optimist said to the Pessimist “Oh yes they can.”

[@waxingwampeter]

Other way around, surely.

[@the_9ent]

An intelligent grown up conversation. More please.

[@SomtimesHeron]

Very interesting as always.

[@AdamE96]

That was very pleasant to watch. I'm generally on your side of politics 'most of the time' Owen. I pictured myself sitting next to you pulling puzzled facial expressions whilst Peter Hitchens was going on about the Tories being a hard left party and all the cultural revolution stuff etc. 🤔🤨 However I do think Peter excelled when he talked about foreign affairs and Ukraine etc. At that point I would've switched sides of the table and be pulling frustrated facial expressions at you! 😆😤 Thanks for clip anyways. Keep it up! 😀

[@danilodjurdjevic7436]

Peter is spot on on Ukraine.

[@battmarn]

This is a fascinating conversation

[@stephenwhiteley9744]

Very enjoyable, love to hear someone who knows the detail / nuance of a situation. Unfortunately Owen, it wasn't you this time.

[@daros194]

Very enjoyable. Thank you.

[@Barry101er]

I could see this being a series, along the lines of The Trip; in different pubs instead of different countries. :)

[@redemrys5342]

lol