182 - Psychedelics & Recreational Drugs

[@PeterAttiaMD]

In this episode, we discuss: 00:00:00 - intro 00:00:10 - David’s early interest in the brain and experience in psychiatry 00:08:00 - David’s brief work on government drug policy in the UK 00:11:20 - A scale for rating the relative harm of certain drugs 00:17:44 - The contrast in regulation between cannabis vs. alcohol and why research on potential benefits of cannabis is lacking 00:23:35 - The opiate crisis and rise of fentanyl: the cause and potential solution 00:33:11 - The science of addiction and the potential use of psychedelics for treating drug addiction 00:41:32 - Cocaine: mechanisms of action and risks 00:48:38 - Methamphetamine and crystal meth: mechanisms of action and neurotoxicity 00:53:12 - How psychedelics came to be classified as schedule I drugs despite their numerous therapeutic uses 01:09:45 - The history of MDMA and the bad science and political forces leading to its demonization 01:14:26 - History of ketamine, medical use of esketamine, and the waning effects of psychedelics with increasing usage 01:21:28 - Psilocybin for depression: David’s promising research and the roadblocks to more robust experiments

[@freyahopcroft]

Thank you for joining the conversation on psychedelics Peter! The time is now is change the narrative and show that drugs can be positive, profound and life changing!

[@thebodysage]

David is a national treasure!

[@jayboegs6268]

Breaking Bad was made for AMC, not Netflix. I know, I was the dialogue editor for every episode. (she said, quite proudly)

[@DrugScience]

Thank you Peter for featuring our Founder - Professor David Nutt If you would like to learn more about the Neuroscience behind psychoactive substances, you can do so here -> www.drugscience.org.uk/

[@DeaconEdTalks]

Another great interview Peter! You are a gift. And the homework you do!

[@brianmorenze]

What a fantastic episode! Tickles all the right parts of my brain! Thanks for bringing this to us Peter! Greetings from Sri Lanka :)

[@tnov2242]

Wow, cannot thank you enough for this excellent conversation with David Nutt, what an amazing scientist. Love his books

[@brettmcgee698]

Great conversation, Peter. Thanks for sharing

[@PsytranceGOUGAS]

David is such a wealth of knowledge. What a great conversation. New sub for me.

[@nadernayo]

I admire your knowledge.. Excellent selection of guests.. Amazing interviews as usual.. Million thanks

[@bennguyen1313]

Regarding how a drug can be evaluated based on 1) Risk (physical, increasing dependency or dosage (tachyphylaxis))... 2) The potential to alter a trait in addition to state Where would nicotine fit, since as mentioned it can both simultaneously relax while increasing focus. Long term, in addition to the risk caused by smoking/chewing-tobacco, it seems to be protective against Parkinson's?! BTW, there was a great interview with Sam Quinones on the recent EconTalk with Russ Roberts. They go deep on Fentanyl on it's use and how it spread.

[@petercoderch589]

The problem with cocaine is that, once you experience life on cocaine, you never want to go back to life without cocaine, because of how underwehelming being clean is compared to being coked out. Once you experience the coke high, that feeling of being intensely alive and where everything is intensely interesting and rewarding, "normal" life feels like absolute ST in comparison. When I was a teenager, I was a smoker. I smoked for 2 years a pack a day. One day, while playing soccer, I noticed that I was getting winded from just running a little bit. So I thought to myself:"I am 18 and I am already winded from running for 10 minutes. If I continue smoking, by 40 I won't be able to walk.". So I quit. Just like that. Didn't miss it at all. Same thing with alcohol: I got drunk or twice in my life,d didn't like the feeling at all and never drank again. My weakness are dopaminergic stimulants. Methylphenidate, cocaine, meth. I just love that feeling of being alive and excited about everything, and I *hate* feeling "normal". Feeling "normal" is this incredibly dull, apathetic, dysphoric feeling of "this sucks" that I experience every day of my life. It's like I find everything incredibly boring and underwehlming, and don't derive any pleasure from doing almost anything. I engage in activities, but don't derive any joy from doing them. I require extreme stimulation to feel anything, and right after that incredibly painful feeling of apathy and dullness comes back. The first thought that comes through my mind when I wake up is: "this sucks"I have at one point ripped most of the skin of my arms and legs with my nails out of sheer boredom. I only feel like a human being when I am high on coke or meth. People tell me that I should do interesting things to relieve the intense boredom and apathy. They tell me to go to the movies, or go have a walk, or go to a restaurant, or travel, etc. They don't understand that I do these things, but I don't derive any sort of pleasure or enjoyment from doing these things. I need much higher levels of stimulation to feel anything. The few non-drug things that brings me any sort of pleasure are things like Skydiving, B.A.S.E jumping, etc. These things do deliver a degree of stimulation that brings me some joy, but the joy is fleeting and the intense pain and apathetic boredom returns in minutes. True relief comes only from potent dopaminergic stimulants. The problem, of course, is that having 10 X the normal amount of dopamine in your synapsis is not sustainable. Besides the massive oxidative stress, there is the inevitable crash, habituation and cardiovascular issues from using potent stimulants continuously. Yes I know that I am mentally ill, but unfortunately there is no cure for my illness. Currently, I am on 40 mg of methylphenidate a day, prescribed by a physician, which is the only thing that stops me from relapsing into meth hard. It doesn't feel as good as meth, but at least it makes my life tolerable enough that I can live. And yes I know that I will most likely have Parkison's Disease fom having my dopamine transporters constatnly inhibited. But this is still preferable from dying of cardiac arrest from a meth overdose. There is *no* way that I wouldn't relapse without my prescribed Ritalin. I have tried many times, and I always relapse because feeling "normal" is atrocious and feeling high is wonderful. At the end, we will all gona die anyway. Some younger than others, or course, but the end result is the same. This is a longevity channel, and many of you might live to 90, or maybe even more than 110. But not everyone is meant for longevity, either genetically or in terms of personality. I may or may not have longevity genes, but I certainly don't have a longevity-oriented brain program. The entire wiring of my brain appears to be: "Live fast, live hard, die young." Dying from cardiac arrest at 45 might still be preferable to dying of Alzheimer's Disease at 100, pooping in your pants and without remembering even your own name.

[@Dedicated_.1]

Wow reading all this was a shock. I know it doesn’t really do anything but this random stranger genuinely hopes you feel better in the future.

[@PicPhix]

mTor modulates methamphetamine-induced toxicitythorugh cell clearing systems. In fact, the dose of 10 μM METH produces roughly 35% cell death, which was totally prevented by rapamycin (100 nM). Remarkably, rapamycin alone further reduced cell death significantly below levels found in control cells. This witnesses for the presence of a baseline inherent aberrancy of mTOR regulation in this cell line, which is reminiscent of neurodegeneration [49]. Incidentally, this is the first report showing that the gold standard inhibitor of mTOR rapamycin prevents METH toxicity. This key finding provided here as side observation is in need of a dedicated experimental project. So far, only taurine and melatonin were shown to slightly prevent METH toxicity with an indirect evidence of mTOR-mediated mechanisms [94, 96], although this was interpreted using a multifaceted hypothesis. Remarkably, recent evidence, despite not addressing directly METH neurotoxicity, demonstrated that METH-induced behavioral sensitization associates with mTOR overexpression, while rapamycin reverts such an effect [97]. Again, the stimulation of DA D1 receptors, which are key in both METH-induced toxicity and behavioral sensitization [9, 98], directly promotes mTOR activation while inhibiting autophagy [99]

[@majav15mg]

Dude, I don’t know if it’s the hexahydrocannabinol edibles I’m on now, but I really enjoy reading your perspective, lol. Write more.

[@brianmorenze]

Dude this was so wonderful to read! Thank you for sharing your story :) I wish I knew you in person :)

[@roguesherlock]

This was very insightful. Thank you.

[@crembruleeful]

PLEASE BRING HIM BACK!

[@cmgeolo]

I feel like this could be a 3 part even.

[@upaiaq]

What a great talk! Thank you.

[@omarino99]

Peter, as a subscriber to your premium service I have a suggestion. It would be great to have a private Discord server for subscribers where we can hang around and discuss various health related topics under different channels. You wouldn't even have to be active, it would just be nice to have a place where members can interact and share knowledge

[@justanotherytaccount1968]

Second episode pls!

[@NicoGee1]

Amazing podcast/interview!!! Thank you for making this Peter (and David!) This just truly shows how much lies the goverment feed the everyday person, and that the essentially are in it for politigal reasons, then actually making the everyday person and EVEN THE SICK person feel truly better again. Everything is about money now a days, and politics, not about true happiness

[@KJBtheMosFett]

18:06 ish, I believe he's overlooking the case of perscription amphetamine salts being given to individuals with legitimate ADHD diagnoses. I guess that would depend on viewing "calm" in the behavioral context or as a metric of neurological excitation.

[@trismegistus3461]

Great episode

[@spinnetti]

What do you race? (what are the helmets for? SCCA and Lemons road racing for me) On topic, like your stuff and landed here as I'd like to get in a study to see if psychedelics can help with persistent depressive disorder/anhedonia

[@t.c.s.7724]

Um, Bill W writes that he broke free from alcoholism after having a spiritual experience. The L.S.D. came afterwards, he had issues with depression.

[@laundromatjones4337]

He later attributed his success to spirituality, but the LSD happened at the same time. Late in life, he became pretty anti-drug.

[@donnatrocks]

but where can we get psilocybin for our depression? I would love to try micro dosing

[@sporesswilliams3417]

Microdosing helps release anxiety and depression hereby making your mind sharp. You can contact the above name ⬆️⬆️

[@beneidson4275]

Do you know any MD’s like you in Georgia? Trying to find someone from your school of thought on preventive medicine

[@sporesswilliams3417]

You can contact the above name ⬆️⬆️

[@joemarchant1992]

Kurzgesagt is an animated youtube channel that might have a few good videos for kids. It has scientific, technological, political, philosophical and psychological subjects. All in 10min or so episodes

[@wmp3346]

Pete - crack cocaine is not the same as cocaine. Does David differentiate.

[@zmoney248]

Positives of cocaine is it gets you high!

[@liquidluck8594]

Maryland is the wealthiest State in the union and Baltimore is a warzone.

[@elvay6847]

You watch is as big as your ego

[@PFLEONARDI0906]

Just Say No, don’t we have enough addictions like sugar, internet, alcohol?