183 - Building & Changing Habits with James Clear of "Atomic Habits"

Read full show notes here: bit.ly/3mSR9C1
James Clear is the author of the New York Times bestseller Atomic Habits. His extensive research into human behavior has helped him identify key components of habit formation and develop the “Four Laws of Behavioral Change.” In this episode, James provides insights into how both good and bad habits are formed, including the influence of genetics, environment, social circles, and more. He points to changes one can make to cultivate more perseverance and discipline and describes the profound impact habits can have when tying them into one’s self-identity. Finally, James breaks down his “Four Laws of Behavioral Change” and how to use them to create new habits, undo bad habits, and make meaningful changes in one’s life.
We discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:10 - Why James became deeply interested in habits
00:04:39 - Viewing habits through an evolutionary lens
00:08:29 - The power of immediate feedback for behavior change, and why we tend to repeat bad habits
00:14:25 - The role of genetics and innate predispositions in determining one’s work ethic and success in a given discipline
00:24:36 - How finding one’s passion can cultivate perseverance and discipline
00:31:40 - Advantages of creating systems and not just setting goals
00:39:55 - The power of habits combined with self-identity to induce change
00:55:13 - How a big environmental change or life event can bring on radical behavioral change
00:59:38 - The influence of one’s social environment on their habits
01:06:28 - How and why habits are formed
01:16:45 - How to make or break a habit with the “Four Laws of Behavior Change”
01:24:08 - Practical tips for successful behavioral change-the best strategies when starting out
01:40:01 - Self-forgiveness and getting back on track immediately after slipping up
01:50:18 - Law #1: Make it obvious-Strategies for identifying and creating cues to make and break habits
01:59:24 - Law #2: Make it attractive-examples of ways to make a new behavior more attractive
02:12:00 - Law #3: Make it easy-the 2-minute rule
02:17:17 - Law #4: Make it satisfying-rewards and reinforcement
02:20:18 - Advice for helping others to make behavioral changes
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 35 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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[@PeterAttiaMD]

In this episode, we discuss: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:00:10 - Why James became deeply interested in habits 00:04:39 - Viewing habits through an evolutionary lens 00:08:29 - The power of immediate feedback for behavior change, and why we tend to repeat bad habits 00:14:25 - The role of genetics and innate predispositions in determining one’s work ethic and success in a given discipline 00:24:36 - How finding one’s passion can cultivate perseverance and discipline 00:31:40 - Advantages of creating systems and not just setting goals 00:39:55 - The power of habits combined with self-identity to induce change 00:55:13 - How a big environmental change or life event can bring on radical behavioral change 00:59:38 - The influence of one’s social environment on their habits 01:06:28 - How and why habits are formed 01:16:45 - How to make or break a habit with the “Four Laws of Behavior Change” 01:24:08 - Practical tips for successful behavioral change-the best strategies when starting out 01:40:01 - Self-forgiveness and getting back on track immediately after slipping up 01:50:18 - Law #1: Make it obvious-Strategies for identifying and creating cues to make and break habits 01:59:24 - Law #2: Make it attractive-examples of ways to make a new behavior more attractive 02:12:00 - Law #3: Make it easy-the 2-minute rule 02:17:17 - Law #4: Make it satisfying-rewards and reinforcement 02:20:18 - Advice for helping others to make behavioral changes

[@ranjukhurana2000]

😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😅😅

[@ranjukhurana2000]

😅😅😅😮😮

[@ranjukhurana2000]

😅😮😮😮😮😅😅😅😮😮😅😮😅😅😅😮😅😊😅😅😊😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😮😮😮

[@ranjukhurana2000]

😮😅😅😅😮😅😅😮😅

[@ranjukhurana2000]

😮😅

[@billytheweasel]

Dr Attia is just a damn gift. Thank you!

[@reinerschafer1708]

Clicked on this with no intention of spending 2 1/2 hours listening to two people talk about building and changing habits...and yet I did. Much more interesting and informative than I expected. Thank you.

[@christinestump6377]

Regarding the evolution of habits, there's a wide gap between 5k years ago and 5 hundred. Reading any of the Upanishads or Vedas, Pre-Socratic Philosophers or Classical, or even early Christian Theology renders clear evidence we've been habit interested for far longer than 500 years.

[@theotherway1639]

“Every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become.” Good quote from the book. I find mindfulness more beneficial though. The workbook called 30 Days to Reduce Stress by Harper Daniels helped a lot.

[@selm006425]

I've heard other interviews with James and really enjoy listening to him, but your interview is by far the best, I think you just ask more insightful questions, great work Peter!

[@junirox1]

Probably, one of the best podcasts on the Internet.

[@nextlevelwarrior]

Tracking anything usually leads to change. I believe this is part of PEARSONS LAW: When performance is measured, performance improves. When performance is measured and reported back, the rate of improvement accelerates" This is why accountability is king for the biggest changes.

[@jzen1455]

James reminds me of a combination of Joel McHale and Tim Ferris.

[@zxsw85]

Your mom of Pamela Anderson and Nikki Minaj

[@meanderthal2635]

Nailed it! Maybe add that he routinizes his life like Abed Nadir.

[@tehkateh]

The voice skews Ferris, especially

[@lindseykerr9670]

You set the bar high with your question formation and pulled out a lot of background information and detail from James that we haven’t heard before. Thank you for your insightful approach.

[@hdashg]

My favorite deep thinker sits down to interview the habits builder with his beautiful style of intense preparation, thoughtful questions and sharp deep dives. How can I create 2.5 extra hours today? hmmm - now thats the hard part :)

[@zxsw85]

Don’t KZbin

[@jeannedigennaro6484]

Sometimes we need to ask for help, or learn to say “no” to activities or duties.

[@farshidbondar2497]

An interview with David Goggins, and digging deep in Goggins' mindset and habits, will be a complimentary to and an extension of this informative interview with James Clear. It won't be easy, in more than a few ways, to interview Goggins but because it's going to be a very challenging one, it'll be of great value to the audience of Peter Attia MD Podcast.

[@innuendo4469]

Great episode, great guest - simply presented content, thank you James and Peter

[@taylorjanegreen1]

What an incredible interviewer you are! These were the most unique and sophisticated questions I have ever seen any interviewer ask James!

[@sarahlovesdonuts9601]

What strikes me about intellectuals/talking heads trying to parse out the motivation for discontinuing addiction and is that they invariably omit the variable of emotional pain. People do not destroy themselves unless they are in incredible pain. The pain of the negative effects they experience doesn't compare to the crushing personal pain they carry with them.

[@willyouwright]

This is why meditation and contemplation and awareness are so important. It shows ones workings so you can at least try to be less controlled by compulsion.

[@AnnoulaXeni]

Two people I greatly admire, together. This is a good Monday :-)

[@willyouwright]

Interest and desire can also be cultivated.. so motivation is not primary. You can develop motivation and interest.. being open and curious and being able to realise how magical things are around you really proceeds motivation. Which means awareness and apprecitaion is primal..

[@Burt_Sampson]

The authors of the two books I read this month. How cool

[@bennguyen1313]

I liked the 2 quotes mentioned.. 60% of the time.. it works every time! and The heaviest weight at the gym is the front door.

[@redbull9554]

Anyone else who initially thought this was Tim Ferris? Kinda looks and sounds like him. Great podcast!

[@hendy24]

I've already listened to this episode at work but I'll watch it again now because it was so clear and insightful

[@mikerayco]

Nice shirt Peter!

[@tedischmold4045]

I loved this podcast!! Thank-you 😊🇨🇦

[@traycecarr9237]

Great talk, and the inflections of true honesty,tho hysterical to me.Peter your obsession with the water meter has got to be a hot topic with your family...and the fact that you have a spread sheet might have been the first 'oh boy here we go' clue:)))) But LOVE your interview with James, he is great author/ habit teacher!!! Love this

[@melissal3383]

I’m negligably competitive against other people. YET insanely competitive against MYSELF or the standards I set. Mostly about how I manage my finances, health, learning certain things. I’m getting a bit older so that “drive” has lost a lot of steam. The finance thing takes minimal effort so that top thing stays consistent. As a prior medical person, treating your body like a “habit machine” WILL backfire. It’s your partner, not a dog to be beaten because of your habit to be abusive towards yourself or others. Life needs compassion and love before all habits or systems. Kindness needs to be built into the matrix of our lives

[@toniconn9688]

So happy to see this podcast! I've followed James for years!

[@averageboy14]

Incredible interview!

[@Bill0102]

This is a stellar piece; akin to a book that was stellar in its insights and delivery. "Better Sleep Better Life" by William Brook

[@shaynesmith5046]

James's understanding of identity fits with what has historically been known as self-image in NLP?? As ultimately our self-image determines our behaviour

[@piercep2091]

James sounds very similar to Tim Ferris. Close your eyes and you can barely tell a difference!

[@tatsumakisempyukaku]

This guy, James, sounds like Tim Ferris in my head. But definitely going to implement this or integrate this with what I’ve learned from doing Peterson’s future authoring exercise.

[@eduardopicasso6559]

Thanks!

[@justadudeintheworldman.120]

Opportunity missed on touching foreheads there at the end lol Great content, been following James since his blogging days 2yrs prior to Atomic Habits. Will def pre order his next book

[@jeannedigennaro6484]

I will implement the strategy of easing into a new desired habit, such as working out, but starting slow and for a short per. Once that practice is ingrained, it will be easier to expand and increase the workout intensity. Yes, it’s crucial not to beat yourself up or to give up when circumstances interfere with your plan. But still, preparation is everything. When changing diet, it is essential to learn about nutrition, and NOT by reading the government food period. Once you learn how unhealthy foods adversely affect your arteries and metabolism, and you also learn which foods contain the most bioavailable nutrients, adhering to an eating plan is easier. Preparation of nutritious foods in advance, so you always have nourishment at your fingertips is the key to success. And the whole family should learn to prioritize nutrition to succeed in school, in sports, and in life. And I like the idea of imagining yourself changing into a person who reads a lot, or exercises, etc.

[@drichi07]

As always, after a few hours of listening, the asides by Peter talking about himself are especially useful. Today it was the mention of checking his water meter. You might assume this is nothing special if like many who live on a budget and need to control costs, but here we have it somehow connected to science. It's sorta like the guided archery elk hunts Peter went on where his guide failed to use an electronic rangefinder to tell him how far away the elk was. Hardship indeed. Those of us who have always hunted elk with a bow without a guide had who learn to estimate range by eye through yrars of practice can undestand the disappointment.

[@S1L3nCe]

1:54:57 This reminded me of how light behaves at a quantum level; either like a particle or a wave, depending on whether you take measurements or not.

[@Gman-nb9ge]

Love this, if i could apply half of this I'd be doing well

[@gaeb-hd4lf]

Damn very good questions doc, and answers too of course!

[@a1osborne]

Would love to see Peter interview a great coach or personal trainer who is able to get their athletes to change habits and meet goals.

[@willyouwright]

Feeling good. Can and should be independant of outcome. Sure it rakes knowledge and practice.. but its a very wise thing to strive for..

[@willyouwright]

Dont set goals before considering options and look more at your why than what..

[@IvicaOS]

Great, great pod…will buy book(s)! Peter please make a pod with somebody about something you said towards the end of this pod - maintaining one’s mental health! That would be great. P.S. I hope you are ok after that fall that you informed us on IG 🙋🏻‍♂️🤛🏻🙏🏻👍🏻

[@connorzanoli7858]

great video

[@boydhooper4080]

Gents I’ve heard both of you speak so many times I’ve lost count. I’ve also read atomic habits twice. Even with that I thought this was a great discussion that I got a lot out of.

[@willyouwright]

Delayed gratification is old news. Now its about enjoying the process , and the process is in itself the reward.. and outcomes are just the topping..

[@trismegistus3461]

59:45 Me, in my 30s, listening to this while biting my nails :( Been doing it my whole life, I don't even remember the last time I used nail clipper

[@pulkitjain9604]

2:17:17 : Reward

[@thegraceofgodistheanswerto8587]

Wheat thins beat me every time! 😆

[@sarahbei]

I have a weakness for Wheat Thins also!

[@Gman-nb9ge]

From UK what are they

[@sarahbei]

@@Gman-nb9ge Just small salty wheat crackers. They're bite sized so very easy to eat by the handful. I wish they made an organic version but it's probably for the best since being nonorganic keeps me from eating them more.

[@lpgalmeida]

Praise the good, ignore the bad.

[@Ummonchinable]

Less time worrying about the water bill means more time for Zone 2 training.

[@jbidwell605]

Interesting commentary about smokers - how the parent quit for the child. ....My husband's mother stopped smoking for each of her (4) pregnancies, but as soon as each child exited her body, she fired up a cigarette and chained smoked for the rest of her life. So bizarre - (this was back in the early 60s though)

[@willyouwright]

Genetics play no role. As we all have individual strengths . It just highlights that we must match our reasonable capabilities to our environment ...

[@lufeacbo8]

👏👏👏

[@babogoon]

01:21:57 1:33:30 1:41:00

[@kimberlynicoll6562]

staring down the barrel of wheat thins....that killed me😂

[@MrDjhealth]

Will Atomic Habits work for someone with ADHD?

[@angiewagler6367]

For the Wheat Thins… just portion them out into bags. Won’t hurt the kids and will keep you from eating the whole box. 👍

[@sherylnacion1263]

1:35:09

[@trismegistus3461]

01:06:28

[@moontrack4625]

Seems a big difference in this topic is sex. Habits, motivation, competition seems to be very different with sex hormones. The goals may be similar, but sex hormones play a much bigger part.

[@jeannedigennaro6484]

And diet, sleep, exercise, sun exposure play a big part in libido.

[@moontrack4625]

Sex meaning gender

[@phoshigs]

Am I supposed to be unplugging the toaster after each use?

[@idcharles3739]

Unplugging the toaster! What?! Is that a thing I'm supposed to do?!

[@annak29]

Yes, ghost wastage for every unused electrical cord plugged in. Also, small appliances are usually at fault in home fires, even when passively plugged in.

[@BA-og2eh]

I learned Swum is a word from this podcast lol

[@mohammadhashem7256]

31:40

[@jpg7616]

He says developing habits for long term gain is in the past 500 years… but Bible has examples of people sacrificing short term pleasures for long term rewards going back 1000s of years

[@willyouwright]

Pride is not a great motivator. Because it relies on image and ego or affection from others.. self confidences and wisdom are far better ways to generate care fir oneself and others.. prude leads to all sorts of personality issues. I.e. i dont mow my lawn for socual status. I mow it cos its like ocd fir me. I love the process of making it trim.

[@ryonlyon]

I think learning to swim may be more difficult than riding a bike is because we can't breathe underwater. Completely different element.

[@hplovecraftmacncheese]

I think that a bike is less intuitive because, if you never tried it you can't easily understand how to balance and control the speed and braking -- it can be very daunting for some people who aren't mechanically inclined. Swimming is just moving in a way that moves you through the water and is easier to understand for most people. I'm sure there are plenty of people who find bicycling easier than swimming though due to aversion to water.

[@Yogaleif]

Identity: The reason why people stop biting nails when starting medical school or stop smoking the day before the get kids, has to do with identity . "I am a good fahert/mother. I am a good doctor."

[@AnnoulaXeni]

Yeah, but ... jeez, jeez, jeez! Heating the oven for TWO cookies?! How about: bake them all, freeze them all, in a freezer in the garage or somewhere far away, unpleasant, and awkward?

[@scottk1525]

Sounds like some really valuable info/advice in the book, but I couldn't help but be a little disappointed when it came time for James to talk about his own habits, or Peter's, and the everyday mundane challenges of marriage, or junk food, or what not. It's like he flipped a switch and transformed from being an apparent expert in the art of habit building to being a relatable average guy that has as hard time as anybody avoiding cookies. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect him to be the Jesus Christ of habits or anything just because he wrote a book, but it is a little disheartening to see that after learning all that he has, that even he still struggles with the most basic temptations. Can't help but wonder if all the info in his book is truly practical? Or if it just *sounds* really good in theory (as motivational philosophy tends to.)

[@mayurdotca]

"Down the barrel of Wheat Thins" 😂😂😂😂 Seriously though. Cmon bro. If the wife feeds the kids trash, its on you too. Change it up and make it work. Negotiate new habits for the kids. Keto chocolate bombs are crazy good - dates, coconut, organic cocao, stevia, almond flour. Let the kids make them.

[@liambrereton2641]

Two men who look good bald

[@sladko100]

I taught a woman how to ride a bike at 35. It did not take long.

[@willyouwright]

Humans are very flexible and we can allot of influence but we cant be whatever we want. But we can change it allot.. so mute point really.

[@Markharlan95]

People unplug their toasters after each use?!

[@Plymouthmusicschool]

Wait, you’re losing a battle with wheat thins? Wow to me those things taste like sawdust and cardboard

[@moontrack4625]

You have a human who prepares your cookie dough…🍪🤨

[@DRLAMMCHOP]

2:04 someone farts

[@jimmybaker4821]

Thid isnt science based. What rcts back it hup

[@omarino99]

2+ hours of banalities...

[@roofustoofus9551]

Sorry buddy, Peter blows you away in intelligence, but that's okay he blows me away too

[@jaugenantoo3197]

I’m a little bit disappointed by how he couldn’t answer some of the tricky questions he was asked. He was not expecting those kinds of tricky questions. His face turns red and his eyes are showing nervousness. But I like his book

[@bazmalaza85]

sooooo u guys are gonna watch 2,5h of content on YT about habits huh?! muahahahaha, Idiocracy was such a good documentary!

[@tomekb4gin5ki]

Well, there's a sound that comes along with the video. Since this talk is free to listen - thank you, Peter - I choose to listen to it through KZbin, so the channel can make a buck or two. I consider it a donation.