The Reality of Buying/Living with an EV in 2025 that nobody talks about !

[@Devondogsclub]

What really blows my mind is the casual way figures of the price of cars is just thrown around! £30k, £40k, £60k ...£100k! Where does this money come from, how much are people earning to be able to pay a mortgage , living expenses, bring up children & afford a vehicle of that price? As a pensioner I bought my transit for £6,000, insurance is £200 pa & road tax is £29pm & £100 of diesel will take me about 500+ miles. It starts first turn of key, keeps me toasty warm & gets me where I am going & every mechanic in the world can fix it & parts are cheap & available everywhere.

[@GruffSillyGoat]

Put simply it's all *_on the never-never_* better known these days as leasing. The increase in the price of cars (of all fuel types) has pushed more people to financing cars both new and used (or should that be newly used). In effect the automakers have changed their business model from selling new cars for purchase to perpetually leasing new cars and releasing them onto the next few used owners (via trade-in sales). Basically they seek a more guarnteed income from deposit and interest revenue products than from the car itself, which is now as much as financial vehicle as a transportational one.

[@RichardWorton-f9g]

The list price is almost meaningless. The vast majority of cars are bought on PCP or they are leased. People are only interested these days in what the monthlies are going to cost them. A 40k car to most people means a monthly payment of perhaps £500, depending on lots of factors such as the PCP deposit they have or the annual mileage they need.

[@johnnyonline]

This is unfortunately the price of all new cars, not just EV's. Although EV's are a bit more expensive initially (even that's changing), they're much cheaper in the long run with running costs a fraction of petrol and maintenance being close to zero. They may even make us money when we can use bidirectional charging to sell power back to the grid during peak times. That's only a couple of years away. The other elephant in the room is that all cheap used cars were once expensive new cars. Oh, and compared to price price of a house these days, a new EV is practically pocket change. If we're going to be broke anyway, might as well drive something fun.

[@Middledistance100]

@@johnnyonlinethis is false. ICE are cheaper and depreciate slower than EV. EVs are cheaper to run but this is offset completely by sale price & depreciation. Second hand can be a sensible option.

[@davidlloyd1526]

People have jobs and work their butts off.

[@pillred5974]

I would say for a great many people even £15,000 to spend on a car is beyond their reach.

[@SCYorks]

Fully agree with you especially around Yorkshire were I live the average car in the road is worth less than 10 grand.

[@tonyrobinson362]

​@SCYorks Same in Notts £15,000 Plus aint funny.

[@SCYorks]

@@tonyrobinson362 Sometimes I think these KZbinrs don't live in the real world to be blunt don't get me wrong I've 9 cars myself but realize that a lot every day people as I've said earlier struggle with finding over 10k for a car.

[@richfixescars]

They could lease a new Leaf from £175 a month

[@macweegie]

ford fiesta, one of the best selling cars in the uk, cheapest entry level car was almost 19k before they stopped making them. Affordability means different things to different people. A brand new car is never cheap regardless of it being petrol or electric

[@onthemove301]

Just a small point on the maths. If an EV being charged at off peak domestic rate of 6.7p per kWh is going to cost (according to the video calculation) 1p per mile to run, that implies you are getting 6.7miles per kWh. With five EVs under my belt I have never managed much better than 4 miles per kWh, and that would be in summer, downhill with a following wind. Realistically it's more like 3 to 4 miles per kWh, depending upon the road conditions. And public EV charging can still be crap, especially in the North of England. At one location near Warrington today I was pre-charged twice with £99 in order to unlock a charger that worked, and so far have only been refunded for one payment. The pre-charge assumed that my car battery was 180kWh capacity (at 55p per kWh) which is much larger than any traction battery available in a car in the UK. So, it's still the wild west at some locations because far too many public chargers have problems.

[@siraff4461]

I've had ev's around since 2010 and I agree. Commonly 3mi/kWh is normal but in the winter and depending on use it can drop a long way form that too. I love it when they come out with the lines like "this 50kWh car will do 250 miles wltp" then try to back it up with "we all know thats optimistic but you should get at least 200" or other nonsense. For a start off you aren't going to run it flat because that would be moronic then on top of that 200 miles from 50kWh is assuming 4mi/kWh which is only realistic in very specific conditions. I wish they would be more honest and the reality is most small 50kWh cars on a motorway will be looking for a charger not much over 100 miles. If its the middle of winter and wet thats only going one way. Then they claim the charging based on 10%-80% or 20%-80% which means you're only going to have 60-70 miles on the next leg.

[@darrenadams2640]

I agree. Calculations suggest that on a very cheap home tariff it will cost at least 2p per mile. But public charging is a whole other story - they absolutely fleece people and it can end up costing you up to double the cost of diesel.

[@steveknight878]

@@darrenadams2640 It does, of course, depend - but yes, around 2p per mile on home charger (in the summer I get about 1.6p per mile). Public charging varies hugely - from something like 35p to 85p per kWh. I get between 3.4 and 4.4 miles per kWh, depending on the time of year. At 4.4 miles/kWh the 85p (I have never paid as much as that, but bear with me) rate would cost me 19p per mile. My old Diesel did about 45 miles per gallon on a good day. At £1.41 per litre, that gives me about 15p per mile - so the EV (at its most expensive) would cost a bit more than a Diesel, but not double - nowhere near. However, it is quite easy to find much cheaper prices even on public chargers.

[@jeremydavies4620]

Worth noting that the public charging cost is stated as 20 times home charging at 6.7p. Last time I checked 20 times 6.7 p was £1.34p, not 0.79p.

[@Hali88]

yes, lots of misleading maths in this video. £5.45 / 300 miles = about 1.8p per mile, which for some reason Ped rounded down to 1p, and then using this flawed maths claimed that public charging is 20x more expensive when clearly it is more like 10-12x. Ok not the end of the world but it's important to do it correctly if you want to be credible.

[@nigelbagguley7410]

Still one of the biggest issues for me is the fact if you pull up to a charger and 2 or 3 people are in front of you your looking a wait of 30 mins+ per car before you charge yours.

[@johnnodge4327]

I've never had to wait for a charger, except if I could be bothered to use a supermarket charger. On the road, there are plenty of chargers available, and if one place is busy, then just go to one that isn't. There are chargers literally everywhere, you just need to find them.

[@RichardWorton-f9g]

Had an EV for 5 years and never once sat and waited for a charge. The simple trick is to get out of your old ICE mindset of running it to the fumes and then filling up as you then have no option but to wait. Stop with say 20% left and you have the option of moving on to the next one.

[@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne]

@@RichardWorton-f9g So what you are saying is the range shown is a load of rubbish as you need to recharge long before you *have* to? Whereas those of us sensible enough to not believe the BS about EV's can continue until we are on reserve, spend 3-4 minutes fully 'recharging' aka "filling the tank" and off we go. On a recent trip back from Inverness to South Warwickshire I didn't stop once. I cannot think of an EV that would do that type of distance. On arrival home I had to make an unexpected (and immediate) journey to Leicester. I did it on the fuel that was still in my tank. There and back. Good luck to you, and anyone who drives an EV, but they're not for me.

[@SteYoung]

​@@johnnodge4327As a relatively new EV owner but one that charges 99.9% from home, ive not experienced an issue finding a public charger free however given that only 19% of all new cars last year were EVs I do wonder what its gonna look like as EV ownership increases rapidly over the next 5-10 years.

[@DIYMick]

you are correct if that happens. But if you have your own driveway and you can charge at home, then you ONLY need to use a public charger if you're doing a trip over around 300 miles. How often do you do that?

[@camofilms]

The management can charge at work, us minions can't. So I can only charge on my way to work or on the way home. That's more time of my life at a service station when I could be at home.

[@hunchanchoc8418]

Disgraceful elitism.

[@ItsAllJustBollox]

All staff can charge at my place of work free of charge there are currently no personal tax implications as hmrc don't class staff charging as a benefit in kind at the moment as long as all staff are included. I drive 50 miles a day for work so an EV fits my needs perfectly.

[@darrenadams2640]

Yes, all that time wasted waiting around AND you are being absolutely fleeced in the process - public charging can cost twice as much as diesel.

[@edc1569]

You work for the worst company imaginable.

[@JamesSmith-qs4hx]

This story reminds me to be thankful of reliable energy dense hydrocarbon fuels.... They give me freedom to travel and as I use them, they provide the atmosphere with carbon dioxide, the gas of life, so plants can grow better.🙏

[@kevinchadwick8993]

Another problem for EV insurance is that a small dink can compromise the confidence in the battery safety as the battery spans the entire bottom of the car.

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

What? You mean like the small dink that can take out your exhaust system? After 6 years and 70,000 miles I've had no worries despite living in rural France where some of the tracks are a bit stony. A friend from Norway did visit us and scraped his Model S on a piece of metal sticking up, it did dent the battery cover but got nowhere near the cells. You are talking about extremely rare events. and btw my insurance here is the same as the equivalent petrol/hybrid car.

[@gartgreenside3657]

The environmental cost of cars that are so easy to write off is INSANE. EVs SHOULD BE BANNED until the tech is better

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

@@gartgreenside3657 Huh!? You do know that a typical ICE will need serious work on it before an EV battery gets below 80% of its original range. There are legions of EVs now on 200,000 miles or more with the original battery. Google it for yourself to find the average mileage that a petrol or diesel car hits the scrapheap in the UK.

[@DeadNoob451]

@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 The exhaust system does not self-ignite when damaged and thus no, not like that. More like a bomb with a damaged case. Only solution is to professionally dispose of the dangerous object.

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

@@DeadNoob451 Like I say, extremely rare, just like EV fires in general. Go check the data and get your head right on the subject. Any vehicle carrying volatile liquid fuel will always be far more dangerous than anything powered by a battery. But if you can't be bothered to dig beyond the "Look! an EV caught fire!" sensationalist headlines then I can't help you.

[@tonymoreton7166]

If say 12 million homes were running continously 7kW charges overnight 2 things are likely. 1. Prices won't be 7p/kWh anymore. 2. Grid/supply network will go t!ts up. If we get to a situation where ALL power use, transportation, heating etc is electric, we will have introduced a massive single point failure & be asking for trouble. Diversity of electric (all generation forms) natural gas, diesel, petrol, oil, LPG, hydrogen, coal, bio etc. etc. removes this.

[@ItsAllJustBollox]

As a 2 EV family we don't charge every night maybe one for twice a week the grid seems to manage with millions of people running their ovens hobs 10kw showers every evening at the same time the majority of home charging is done overnight when demand is very low. Ask yourself do all ICEdrivers fill up with fuel every night even when they don't need to, why would you assume EV drivers would?

[@27lacuna27]

The reason electric is 7p/kwh is because the grid has an oversupply of power, particularly between 23:30 and 05:30. However, smart EV chargers/tariffs can actually make use of oversupply during the day as well as night. Therefore, if I plug my car in at 12 noon for example, the app for my charger will give me a schedule of when the car is going to charge to make use of the cheap rate and this might be during 'peak' hours if supply is good (sunny/windy day is ideal). The main point here is that supply isn't going to be an issue; there is plenty of energy generation in planning and construction to more than accommodate the progressive increase in EV ownership. There isn't going to be a sudden uptake in EV ownership.

[@ThisRandomUsername]

So I did the maths: According to the government website, in the U.K in 2022, people travelled 740 billion km, 86% of which were by passenger vehicle (636.4b km) The Tesla Model Y LR AWD gets 16.9kWh/100km WLTP, so assume 80% of that real world: 21,125kWh/100km. 636 400 000km / 100km * 21,125kWh/100km = 134 439 500 kWh if everyone used a Tesla Model Y and no-one was a passenger. That's 368 075 kWh per day Assuming everyone in the U.K charged only at home and only between 10pm and 5am, that's 52,6MW Looking at the Energy Dashboard U.K site, I'm seeing that just wind power alone was producing 14GW at 5AM today. Can you see an error in my calculations? This doesn't seem like an issue at all. Edit: I'm from South Africa, and we use the decimal comma, and spaces to group 1 000s.

[@pmrose18]

@@ItsAllJustBollox when was the last time you had an 8 hour shower?

[@rjmacf0015]

there is absolutely no reason to believe there is ANY lack of power production. Are energy distributors greedy....who'd have thought it!

[@edwowen]

Great vid as awlays Ped. As a dedicated petrolhead, we have only recently dipped our toe in the electric water. An approved used BMW i3 for £15k. Octopus overnight charging at 7p, so around £3 or less for 160 miles. Perfect for all our local journeys. As you have pointed out, it all goes to sh*t if and when you charge out and about. 75p in a hotel the other day worked out at twice the price of petrol in an M340i! EV's have their place. But only if you can charge at home. We have to remember that people running existing cars is always better than building a new car and mining all the minerals that are required for the batteries. We just moved from mining oil to mining other chemicals! Oh and now the i3 is going to start having to pay road tax!

[@PetrolPed]

i3 was so ahead of its time 👌

[@edwowen]

@@PetrolPed Yup, nothing like it now which is a shame!

[@MrAjjm65]

Fantastic car for its time! Carbon tub and recycled plastics went in to its manufacture, as I remember. I think BMW electric vehicles have not evolved so quickly since the i3 and i8 landed - truly revolutionary designs and manufacture….

[@Lewis_Standing]

This is actually very untrue. The carbon debt of building a new Tesla model Y vs continuing to run a petrol car breaks even after 3 years in the UK. Google carbon brief EV myths for the maths on that. Everyone can charge at home. See the governments guidelines on cross pavement solutions. Councils only able to decline if it's dangerous. Ie you can get a firm to install a device called Kerbo charge to facilitate this. You'll need your highways dept permission first but they should all be getting their heads around this ASAP. Guidelines were published at Christmas

[@tonyrobinson362]

If air-conditioning stops working get it sorted straight away, Disaster looming if you dont.

[@cyph3r76]

Youre kidding yourself if you think the home charging prices will stay that low. The only benefit will evaporate eventually.

[@Robert-cu9bm]

Everyone will be in dynamic tariff with net zero and unrealible wind

[@quatrecheeze]

There will always be times when supply exceeds demand At those times electricity will always be cheaper than times of high demand, so there will always be an equivalent of off peak even if it's not always in the small hours if the morning Also as more cars support vehicle to grid, your car will become a revenue stream and balance the supply for others

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

Study the supply side. Look at grid demand which btw is actually going DOWN? Why is that? More and more commercial and domestic customers are generating and consuming their own power on site, thus taking pressure off the grid. The growth of solar is a global phenomenon that most people just haven't understood. It took forever for solar to get to 1% of global electricity (2016), another 5 years to get to 4%, it hit 6% in 2023 and record installations last year will surely see that at 7 or 8% now. Solar gets cheaper and cheaper, there is no shortage of raw materials to make them or of places to put them, expect 30% of all electricity to be solar by the early 2030's. Battery storage is also growing exponentially along with solar with prices falling year on year. I am not kidding myself and neither should you.

[@SCYorks]

@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 This is very true I have recently been looking at making substantial changes to my home and got a huge surprise when I got quote's for turning my 1930,s into an eco home. The quote was 32 solar panels 3 Tesla power wall 3 and 4 heat pumps all in including labour for 45,000 pounds

[@GolfWhisky]

I believe the solution is simple and the motivation is obvious: the Govt can't afford to lose tax revenue from fuel duty and not recoup it elsewhere, and it also cannot allow EV's to continue being a regressive tax where the affluent middle classes live cheap, and the poor pay top dollar. The obvious solution is road charging per mile. The charges would be used to subsidise public chargers, such that they cost the same rate as domestic charging. The charge per mile would likely be based on vehicle size or some similar characterstic. So the road charging will have to be expensive enough to offset the loss of fuel duty and pay for the NHS, and enough to fund an affordable public charging network. Everyone will end up paying more than they do currently for ICE vehicles. Those singing the praises of EV's now and benefiting from the regressive tax should make the most of it, it won't last and the future will bring pain.

[@jfro5867]

My turbo diesel estate is 11 years old this year, serviced annually and has nearly 90k on it. It’s a fabulous workhorse. Government should incentivize keeping older cars like mine going because energy or resources used to make it are long spent. It is carbon neutral because it’s already here, working, doing a job of work and let’s be honest cars nowadays are way way cleaner than they were in the 60’s and 70’s. This net zero stuff is all a con.

[@edc1569]

Isnt the tax on that car super low? That’s the incentive!

[@jfro5867]

@@edc1569 well, not really, I paid £255 last time if I remember correctly which was a pretty high band for a ‘normal’ car, however I suppose compared to what’s coming this April maybe so. But, we all know VEL is nothing more than a blatant cash grab, our roads are in awful condition no matter where we go.

[@richfixescars]

You're right about resources, but it's served it's time, it can be recycled. It's also producing CO2 and particulates.

[@hunterfunter47]

Climate change is not a con. Net zero is an ambition not a reality. Are you saying we should just carry on as normal?

[@ianbarker1241]

Diesel absolutely is not. It's filthy

[@spice3767]

It’s utterly incredible that anyone still believes the media and the government …🤦‍♂️

[@edc1569]

What counts as the media these days? Surely KZbin is the media?

[@ianbarker1241]

​@@edc1569the worst kind of media where there is little based in truth

[@beano6452]

I’m not anti EV, but I am anti TAX. The ‘luxury vehicle tax’ is a huge scam. £40k is not a lot for any new car these days, let alone a new EV. I agree that EV owners should pay VED, but why such a huge jump between pre and post Mar 2017 vehicles?

[@RichardWorton-f9g]

The whole car tax system we have now is a complete mess thanks to years of tinkering and never applying the changes retrospectively. The whole system needs clearing out and starting again.

[@kevb8544]

Yep what a con. And the latest new car tax is horrifying (£2,500 first year tax at the showroom on cars like the 992 porsche) wow

[@timtim4603]

Sorry £40K is only for the rich but I agree on Road tax it’s a mess

[@appkazoo5925]

@@timtim4603 define "rich". In a street of former/current council houses near us there is someone with a Toyota BZ4X and that's over £40,000. I don't think they are "rich" but I guess that depends upon where you draw the wealth lines.

[@mw8653]

Just got an EV in Dec 24 for town use and a 30 mile work commute, come April road tax goes from £0 to £195, my other car a 2014 Avensis 2.0d will go from £35 to £40 what a mixed up mess the road tax has become.

[@LordG1963]

A lot of great truths but some staggering glossing over facts ! Speed of Depreciation cannot be over looked a Porsche Taycan will lose 60 % of its value in less than 12months with low mileage not 3 years ! Charging my Hybrid X5 at home has cost me an additional 1500 quid over the last 18 months for a small a 26 kw battery that at the moment will only run 28 miles in this cold weather. The infrastructure for public charging is pathetic with many broken or over subscribed chargers at every services unless you are further South. My car can only charge at 11kw. Max So public charging is non sense for me as it takes 5 hrs, but BMW do this to extend the charge life of the battery. Ridiculously expensive motoring for what are souless laptops with seats in. Why should we be forced to do this when the reality is the production of these cars is far more damaging than the UKs pathetic attempt to save the planet. Surely if we develop synthetic non polluting fuels we dont need to produce more and more cars but keep the ones in existence running rather than scrapping old cars ? I hate this tax on personal choice ! Keep up the good work none the less old boy thouroughly enjoyable videos well 9 times out of 10 anyway 😂😉👍🏻

[@Devondogsclub]

💯💯💯💪👏👏👏👊👍

[@johnnodge4327]

Easy. A battery vehicle (not a hybrid, those are pointless) is about 80% energy efficient, meaning 80% of the energy drawn from the grid does useful work in the car. An internal combustion engine is under 30% efficient, meaning 70% of the energy put in to it turns to heat and noise. Bio fuel are energy intensive fuels, which means for every kW of energy the fuel delivers, it takes 2 or 3 kW for energy to produce. Then it's burnt at a 30% efficiency, causing more CO2 than burnt fossil fuels to start with. Electric cars on the other hand are so much more energy efficient, so they actually do reduce CO2 emissions. I can't see how you're spending so much on electricity, unless public charging, as I spend less than £500 per year to run my EV, which covers 18k miles per year.

[@trevorb5978]

All good points. Well said

[@LordG1963]

@@johnnodge4327 I can only drive hybrids , whilst many journeys are short and i have averaged over 65 mpg over the last 2.5 years and 61% of my journeys have been Electric only . I have to and do often drive more than 200 or 300 miles in a day and no EV provides me a solution that does not need extended planning or even overnight stays which I cannot do. So your sweeping statement that Hybrids are pointless well not for everyone.

[@HQBProductions]

PHEV’s are NOT “ Pointless”! If you charge one up to get 30 miles of range and then leave home, do those 25/30 miles and then the petrol engine takes over you are completely correct..it is an expensive and inefficient idea. However…the way to use a PHEV properly is to charge up…then when you set off, go into SAVE mode which means the car now uses the truly free regained energy for low speed work, it always pulls away from standstill using EV mode and when in low speed moments,it uses only the EV battery so that in towns or car parks, Malls etc….you get the emission free use that actually helps air quality at point of use. If you have only a short journey to make…use pure EV…it makes cold starting and warming up a thing of the past and that is when a petrol engine is at its most inefficient…stand by your exhaust pipe on your next cold starting and tell me that is wrong! A PHEV offers a great deal of EV benefits and in my car, 15/17% of every journey is regained EV…and my 31 mile battery lasts me a week…doing 150/200 miles on average. Far from “ pointless”…just understand and learn to drive it properly!🫢🤔🙂

[@IainAlflatt]

After my VW EV produced a fault, I found that there’s a shortage of technicians. My car sat for four weeks without work being carried out on it. Nearly two months in and I still don’t have the car back, I still don’t really know what’s going on with it. I am without a doubt going back to an ICE once this is resolved.

[@the_lost_navigator7266]

Don't buy a Land rover, my brother's diesel discovery developed an injector fault before christmas. They are due to fix it mid February! I don't think repair delays are an EV only issue.

[@johnnodge4327]

Correct. All vehicles ICE or EV are having long repair times. There aren't enough technicians in the auto industry, as people won't work for the pathetic wages being offered. This is why I left, and got a job that pays twice the money, for 5 hours less per week, and I don't even get cold, dirty, or wet now.

[@Chris_the_Muso]

@@the_lost_navigator7266 Land Rover problems are specific to that company, owned by Tata in India now. That are pretty well dead in the water and anyone who buys a newer JLR vehicle is being stupid. The writing is on the wall, people need to read it. Sad for the great motoring marques like these, but the fault does not lie with the customers. Many of the traditional auto manufacturers are in a downward spiral due to legislation and government meddling, but JLR were already on that slippery slope before any of this happened.

[@paulyflyer8154]

You'll be struggling to get anyone to take it as part ex that's the problem.

[@76sagman]

I have heard this is quite common. VW ID issues and long repair times. I know a few folks handed back and gone back to ice.

[@wellsyandcars]

Great insight, still don’t want one. I will drive my car until they rip the keys out of my hand.

[@markriley2733]

Great explanation and examples but I’m still not convinced on EV. The main gripe is that the government keeps changing the rules to suit them. I don’t want to be forced to change my car or have to buy an EV. I have a 14 year old defender that I never want to sell. It’s my only car and daily drive and will last years and years and I expect will out live most EV. When I do want a 2nd car I want I’ll choose what I want not what the government thinks we want !

[@peterrolt6403]

Not a single part of this made me think an EV is for me, thankfully

[@markriley2733]

@@peterrolt6403 and don’t even get me started on the other stealth taxation paying fees for a few years on new cars and even if they are 2nd hand ie younger than 3 years the new owner has to cover it

[@rogerfinch7651]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qWmQiaKVjsqMoq8si=jSHf6iK8Gk00jKz3 pop a battery in it and keep it 👍

[@markriley2733]

@ I’d rather pop an LS3 in it !

[@ItsAllJustBollox]

They could change the rules on your current can and suddenly charge you a fee to drive in the city you live just because your current car is not green enough. Worrying about government changes is not woth the worry but you can guarantee the government will hit older vehicles harder with green polices in the future.

[@maverick6631]

I have access to a salary sacrifice scheme, but I can't ever own the car I choose to drive. 3 years rent on a mid size SUV is around £12,000, then I have to pre guess the mileage I will drive each year, then I will get screwed if I dare to exceed that figure. I can only get it serviced where they say, and invariably that’s not at a garage that specialises in EVs. That’s as far as I went with switching to EV motoring. I now own a 5 year old RAV4 hybrid which is in good condition, having had one previous owner. It drives superbly, returns 50 mpg and is mine to do with as I please and drive as far as I need without having to encounter charger rage, or get fleeced for 10 - 20x the home rate. EV to me means daylight robbery at every turn. Until that changes, hybrid is as far as I will venture.

[@FlatToRentUK]

I didn't have access to a salary sacrifice scheme although like you I objected to not owning the car at the end. I looked at private leasing which was even worse. So I just went and bought a second hand Hyundai Ioniq for £11k, 3 years old with 19,000 miles on it. Spent £900 on a home charger and am very happy with it. Short of a lottery win I just don't see the point in ever buying a brand new car.

[@richfixescars]

You forgot you save about £1k a year on fuel, depending on your mileage, so the lease costs you more like £9k over 3 years.

[@johntrinick712]

The other issue you didn't raise with the charging network is that in my part of the country, most public chargers are in public car parks. So you have to pay a parking charge on top of charge for the electricity. What's more you can't leave your car all day blocking the space once your car is charged. So, you've gone to the beach for the day. You get there early, find a space with a charger, charge your car. Late morning you then need to move your car, however by 10:30 am all the car parking spaces are full. So you leave your family on the beach and drive around for hours trying to find a space!!!!

[@rogerfinch7651]

Naaah you just drop the charge rate so it charges slower but is still charging. Easy.

[@RichardWorton-f9g]

Depends on the type of charger. If it's a destination charger (ie slow charger) then it's basically a parking space which happens to have a charger on it for convenience. First come, first served. Stay as long as you need. If it's a rapid however, it could be someone's vital resource for being able to continue their journey and it's very bad form to block it once you have finished with it.

[@joules531]

In the last 25 years, I have owned 3 cars. Total cost, just £670, In other words, since I've recently sold my last car, just £2.23 depreciation per month on average, without a single breakdown over that time. I managed to retire 11 years early, primarily due to the savings I have made, by running older cars I can't really see myself purchasing an electric car any time soon. Not just because of the expense, and the eye popping depreciation, but also because of two key factors: I'm not prepared to pay up to ten times more for charging, when compared to those who can charge at home. And secondly, it must surely be obvious now, that there will never be enough public chargers, in time before new sales of ICE cars end. It's going to be chaos.

[@BusyElf]

I drive a Volvo ICE XC60 2.4L Diesel and filled up before a long trip. £90 of fuel in the tank. Once underway I noticed the expected range of my fuel, and that was 700 miles. No worries re fuel for the whole 374 mile round trip I was doing that day. Where is there an EV that can match these figures? and the cost of the car was £13,500 No where near the £20,000 + for an equivalent class of car. Admittedly it's now 10 years old but drives and runs perfectly with no major faults or degradation of fuel economy. I'm 72 years old now and I'm not expecting to change cars before I finally hand back my licence. EV's are not for me, No home charger as I live in a terraced house straight onto the street, no drive. One last thing, My car is AWD so quite good in snow and difficult terrains, has the usual Cruise Control, Traction Control and City Safety etc. All in all, It's a good car for me. and reasonably frugal on fuel and so the environment. No one will force me to change to an EV

[@breseler]

I drive a 2012 Volvo V50 - i bought it new and for the last 12 years I have paid zero VED. I can fill it up and drive ~600 miles on one tank of fuel. VED renewal is due at end of Feb so I will get one last year of VED free motoring - after that, from the figures I have seen, I will have to pay £20 a year (until they decide to plug that 'revenue hole'). Forcing car owners to get rid of their dirty ICE vehicles for “zero emission” (no such thing) vehicles which are currently priced, in most normal citizens cases, beyond their incomes - that will drive car ownership down. Already their will be a generation coming along that will not know how to drive a car with a manual gearbox. Add to that, the future scarcity of cheap used cars (not priced over £5k or in that bracket - my first used car was £750 back in 1973) on the market for new drivers to buy as their first car, huge increases in VED for older ICE cars, increasing cost of fuel for ICE vehicles, huge prices for insurance for young drivers - just a few of the hurdles that future drivers will have to weigh up against affording other ‘luxuries’ or essentials when they set out in the world on their own. Their choice will end up as get a bicycle/electric scooter to get around their local area or rely on public transport to go further afield… Which is what the eco-zealots really want...

[@wassap786]

No one is forcing you to buy an Ev, you can still buy Petrols & Diesels and they will be on the market for a decade or 2 after they stop being sold. If EV doesnt work for you, dont buy one!

[@whydotheyneedtoknow718]

He failed to mention that luxury car tax applies to ALL cars not just electric cars. My diesel A5 which I got from new was I think £600 pa for the first 5 years. Now it is about £160 pa.

[@CoxJul]

Correction: expensive car surcharge applies from the second year.

[@FlatToRentUK]

I think your example is pretty pointless. If someone did that same journey in a Tesla they'd start with 100% charge at home and then probably add 50% once during the day. On long journeys we should stop every few hours for a break, something to eat and the toilet. While stopped the car will charge. Overall cost of the journey will be pretty reasonable because most of it was done on cheap overnight home charging. Length of the journey pretty similar because charging for 20 minutes isn't a big deal especially if you've stopped anyway. To calculate the cost would be about £4.50 for the home charge to cover 250 miles and the remaining 125 miles (53p per KWh from Tesla Supercharger) is £17.50 giving a total journey cost of £22. Your diesel was about double that. Your example is also pretty pointless because it's relatively extreme. When 95% of journeys are under 25 miles then an EV would only need to cope with the occasional long journey if you do them. And as I described, it definitely can. If you were doing 300+ miles every single day then I wouldn't get an EV. If it's once a year then no problem. But you summed it up unintentionally with your last statement. Literally nobody is forcing you to buy an EV. Of course the ZEV mandate is coming and will have an effect but you could hang on to an ICE care until 2040.

[@hammo1935]

Second hand EVs is the way to go. We’ve just bought a 4 year old Cooper S electric with 26k on the clock for under £12k. It has loads of life left in it. It’s perfect for short trips. Longer trips we are keeping our petrol car. We have the luxury of a home charger and overnight charging. Our running costs have come down substantially. I believe that more people would consider EVs if the Government reversed the policy giving choice back to the public. Forcing people to move to just electric for new cars is too draconian.

[@Roger.Coleman1949]

Very sensible and balanced comment .

[@timmurphy5541]

It has to be forced otherwise the competitive pressure on the first car company that produced an EV would force it to give up. This would make every company delay as long as possible and then we wouldn't have all the investment and development that has lead to cheaper batteries like LFP and so on. All car companies have to invest and they won't want to do that for a future that's a "maybe". There's basically no choice about climate change - we can't bargain with the weather.

[@chrisr2368]

You have a set of circumstances that works for you which is great and a better price on the vehicle. However, that should be the driver of change - not coercion.

[@philedwards7174]

Totally agree. Do the research and buy the right car for your needs and they make incredible value. We'll done

[@gartgreenside3657]

"I believe that more people would consider EVs if everyone could afford a big drive and multiple cars so that they had a proper car for when their EV was unable to do the job you want it to"

[@ChrisYeo-y4v]

The problem I have with BEVs is the motorway range in winter conditions. The ranges you quote in the video are for driving on a mixture of roads. When I thought about buying a BEV last year I went to the manufacture's websites and used their own range calculators (so no guesswork). I came to the conclusion that a new car would achieve about 50% - 60% of the published range on such a journey. So roughly a car with a quoted range of 370 miles would achieve roughly 185 - 210 miles when starting with a battery at 100%. Note this is to a remaining charge of 0%. Hence the practical range would be around 150 - 175 miles. I regularly travel to aged / sick relatives 350 miles away on motorways / dual carriageways who do not have home charging and live in rural areas. Thus I would have to charge at least twice and would arrive with a low battery charge. Furthermore, these figures are for a new battery. Although batteries degrade less than we might have expected, my research suggests that an allowance 2% pa is reasonable. A five year old car would achieve about 10% less than above. In the end I purchased a petrol engined car. My wife and I sharing the driving during such a journey would plan to stop once and would arrive with at least 100 miles of range remaining. One manufacturer's site for a car costing around £60k suggested that one could increase the range by turning off the heating and relying on the heated steering wheel and seat heating. That a manufacturer could seriously suggest that we should drive in the winter with the heating turned off having paid that sort of money for the car shows a detachment from reality.

[@FlatToRentUK]

I think you make fair points but just to clarify a couple of things. According to Geotab we're seeing an average of about 1.8% per year battery degradation and this is actually improving with newer, better cars at 1%. And it's actually perfectly fine to just use the heated seats and steering wheel. They heat up very quickly whereas the blower (like in ICE cars) takes a couple of minutes. So if I'm doing a short journey I turn on the heat and steering wheel which have me toasty very quickly.

[@simenfilseth3014]

Hi! As an owner of a 2021 Tesla Model Y long range with a nominal range of 507 km (312 miles), I can provide some real world winter experience. Our car has 57k km on the clock and a battery degradation of probably less than 5% (at least all green on the high level diagnostic). In the winter, we go to the mountains almost every weekend. That is a drive of 250 km (155 miles) or 3h each way. 3h are about the max what we consider to drive without a stop, but usually we stop once for coffee. That consumes about 80% of battery charge, giving us a range of about 312 km (193 miles) in typical temperatures of +5 to -15C. We are three people with lots of luggage and run 21C and heated seats and steering wheel. Most of the way is motorway with a 800 vertical meters ascend at the end. So definately not flat. This means real winter range is around 60% of nominal WLTP range. We charge exclusively at Tesla Superchargers on the road, paying around 0,25 GBP/kWh. The supercharger network in Norway is good, with plenty of chargers (11) along the route. We normally charge for less than 15 minutes while shopping groceries, and then once for the same time on the way back, arriving with around 10% SOC.

[@ChrisYeo-y4v]

@@FlatToRentUK Agreed, use the heated seats and heated steering wheel for short journeys and I do that with my ICE, but short journeys don't seem to me to be an issue with BEVs. My problem is that embarking on a long journey relying on NOT using the heater to get a bit more range doesn't seem reasonable to me, it may be necessary but not entirely practical. If BEVs were really cheap cars then, sure I might make that sacrifice but the cars I checked were premium and for a manufacturer of such a vehicle to suggest that the best way to get an better range is to turn off the heater strikes me that they are grasping at straws. To be practical for the sort of journeys I do, I would want a five year old premium BEV to have a range of 250 miles with a reserve of 50 miles with the lights, wipers and heater working while driving on a winter motorway at 70mph. To compare, my ICE cars on that journey arrive at the destination with just over 100 miles of fuel in the tank. We stop for a comfort break not because we need to. I reduced my suggested specification because we do make a 30 - 45 minute break that could be used to charge a BEV. Thus it seemed unreasonable to go the whole way and suggest (as some people do) that a BEV should have a range of 450 miles.

[@ChrisYeo-y4v]

@@simenfilseth3014 Hi! That is very helpful, thank you. 60% of the published range is within my calculations for a winter drive in a BEV. Enjoy the mountains, sounds great!

[@richfixescars]

You can always charge on a 3 pin plug at destination, yes it's slower, but overnight is quite effective.

[@Dan-xo9ly]

I saw an interesting lecture on the viability of electric cars recently. The lecturer mentioned that EV's are not the silver bullet they are touted to be. Their drivetrains are simple, but their fuel tank is incredibly complex. Whereas traditional cars have simple fuel tanks but complex engines.

[@leepilkington6498]

I think you need to add a health warning to any comments on tax given we have a tax hungry Communist government at the moment. I think it's unlikely the current BIK rates will be held and you should be careful basing a decision on tax benefits. Just ask double cab pickup drivers.

[@StupotTaylor]

I live in Bristol and decided just to go for it and buy a Tesla Model 3 Performance. It was the best decision I ever made and even though my wall charger has recently broken, I’m still able to put 30+ miles on it overnight from a plug socket. I plug it in whenever I can and never really think about range when I’m going around the city. If I go on a longer journey then there’s the Tesla charging network which has been an absolute doddle and it’s taught me that taking 15-30 mins rest is ideal when motorway driving can be quite exhausting. Tesla buzz my phone when the next part of my journey can be made, so sometimes I’m only charging for 10 mins and off I go. Once you start driving an EV you very (VERY) quickly become aware of when and where you need to charge - it’s almost intuitive and really is not stressful at all. I miss having an engine car for the spirit of it - we all know that engine cars have character - but our Tesla isn’t without a personality and it’s comfort far outweighs all cars I have ever driven. A motorway journey is so easy when you double click the right stalk and the car just cruises. There is certainly a feeling of expedition and pioneering that you don’t always get with engine cars. You’re out there in a cutting edge vehicle and voyaging into the future of motoring. I won’t go back.

[@MoaningGit]

Thank you for war and peace

[@thorbjrnhellehaven5766]

I'm very satisfied with my Tesla Model 3 SR+ after 5.5 years. I never missed performance, however there's been occasions when I wouldn't mind AWD. But that's only a few rare occasions through the winter. As long as I don't have to fight traction on ice and snow, RWD is more than enough for me.

[@cyruslad5462]

Was there from Newcastle a few weeks ago, used the Tesla charging point next to a strange Burger King, 40p/kw is worth the slow charging speed.

[@Malcolm-nj8ky]

Not a great idea to use a plug socket!

[@StupotTaylor]

@Malcolm-nj8ky Why is that? I’m using a Tesla ‘granny cable’ for the purpose. Is it damaging in some way?

[@marcsefton5157]

19 percent of all cars sold in 2024 were evs and of that 50 percent were leased and company cars were 29 percent, the general public dont want them not yet anyway, what they should have done is brought out a plugin that would do 120 mile in the real world in winter then increase range every 2 years

[@steveknight878]

My BEV (a lowly Leaf) can do 140 miles real world in winter.

[@appkazoo5925]

Who do you think leases these EVs? Who do you think chooses EVs as a company car? Who do you think takes the salary sacrifice option to get an EV? Who do you think chooses an EV through Motability? It's the general public.

[@marcsefton5157]

@@appkazoo5925 sorry mate thats just not so you already answered your own question

[@g.d2450]

​@@appkazoo5925 nice to see you're agreeing that it's only business users that are being incentivised by government policy leasing these things that aren't worth a fraction of their initial price after a few years of massive depreciation as if they were desirable they would be holding their value significantly higher than what they are

[@neilrwilliams218]

Interesting video, but I've got a few notes: EV3 is 400V architecture and £36k for the 375 mile WLTP range. The penny per mile calculation seems to be more like 2p per mile, making the Gridserve pricing 10-12 times the price, still a significant difference, but not the 20x suggested.

[@johnbaker5533]

Yeah a simple it is 7p a kWh to 79p kWh is not 20 times more. +gridserve is on the expensive end of charging.

[@rogerfinch7651]

Jump on a Tesla charger and it’s 40p but they only run 400V anyway (so not fast for the EV6/9 or Porsche)

[@peteglass3496]

Yes, he's got his detail wrong on the Kia EV3, but it's an interesting car that I'm looking at for my third EV.

[@zainhaider8362]

I have as much interest in buying an EV as i do buying a fridge.

[@davidgillham6847]

I don't take many positives away from this video, and found it quite disingenuous, quite out of touch with reality and glossing over very important details. Firstly, prices of any good EV are still very high and used EVs do depreciate much faster than ICE based cars if you look at the data more closely, especially luxury cars! Secondly, a large percentage of people don't have the luxury of a big driveway with home charging, so that's already going to alienate millions from EV ownership. Thirdly, benefit in kind tax is actually robbing Peter to pay Paul, and is just another tax on the poor, which should not be allowed! And lastly, yes, range is bloody terrible as soon as winter comes, AC on, towing, motorway driving etc, and charging away from home I'm sorry is still bloody terrible most of the time. Worth noting as well that the grid absolutely cannot take millions more EVs sucking from it, we almost had blackouts last week, just imagine...

[@KylePeters-en3zx]

Well it sounds like you have it all figured out. Thanks for taking your time to enlighten us.

[@nigelsmith5807]

Am I right in thinking that EV manufacturers are still advising owners to keep their car's batteries charged between 20% and 80% in order to improve longevity? If that's true then your example of an EV with a WLTP range of 350 miles (but a real-world range of 300 miles) should be further restricted to a sensible 180 miles.

[@SDK2006b]

Charging to 80% is optional, for day-to-day use. If you need 100%, then you charge to 100%, simple ! The usable battery size is less than the full battery size anyway, so charging to 100% isn't bad

[@Lewis_Standing]

Yes and no. You can do that if you wish and I do because I've bought it outright. I have home charging so it makes no matter how I charge it. Range being irrelevant on a short work commute. If I can I might as well make my battery last even longer. But if I want to do a long journey I absolutely charge to 100% and run it down to near 0 if I can charge there (ie my families houses - we all have EVs and home 7p charging tariffs). And if you don't have home charging just do 20 to 100% routinely. With the new government guidelines on cross pavement solutions, hopefully everyone will be able to access home charging tariffs 👌 for convenience and price reasons.

[@PetrolPed]

It’s not that simple. I have done a video on the subject… kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGKlc4GAedOeirMsi=aIKlzJiHTjXtxXed

[@nigelsmith5807]

You'd be foolish not to use 100% of the battery charge if you needed to - that's clear. But for day-to-day usage, does the 20% to 80% advice still apply? I am aware that battery technology has improved and that modern thermal management systems provide better longevity, but do EV owners generally stick to between 20% and 80% charge?

[@Lewis_Standing]

​@@nigelsmith5807many just say screw it it's leased I don't care and do a daily use from 100 to 95% and charge it back up. Not good for the battery but not their problem. Google EV battery health with Dr Jeff Dahn from Canada electric vehicle society. He developed Tesla's batteries. Recommends using it 40-60% if you're doing short trips. As for what people actually do - I'm not aware on any surveys of the UKs 1m plus EV drivers tbh

[@tonyrobinson362]

Dont forget £1000 plus for a home charger.

[@rogerfinch7651]

If you need one. I used granny charger on a three pin for 4 years

[@johnnodge4327]

If you drive 12k miles per year on a home EV tariff, your charger will be paid for in less than 1 year.

[@michaelsamwise1]

12k miles per year. diesel £120 per month, electric £20 per month. Home charger was £1000, paid for in 10 months. Last manufacturers service £100. Oil change £0. Oil Filter £0. Spark plugs £0. Air inlet filter £0.

[@martinbailey2140]

Mine worked out £700 with salary sacrifice

[@steveknight878]

@michaelsamwise1 I bet you don't need a new timing belt either. Or be worried that the belt might break and wreck your engine.

[@workman122]

People are deluded if they think the "low cost home charging" can continue along with tax incentives to buy EV's. Haven't you heard the UK is nearly bankrupt, you think a government will just allow all that tax revenue from fossil fuel to be lost. After the honeymoon /honeytrap period all that revenue will be raked back somehow from the then increasing EV owners.

[@rogerfinch7651]

There aren’t any incentives now for home owners. Best not think about the amount the petrol companies make in profit while claiming subsidies from the same ‘bankrupt’ government!

[@TheVedabuss]

@@workman122I think you are right so adopt early and bag the benefits while you can, I haven't paid road tax in 3 years, and running costs are a fraction of when I was driving a diesel. This will end at some point, as it must, but I have really benefitted from this incentivised period so getting an EV was real smart.

[@DrDave_63395]

The reason for cheap ‘EV’ tariffs is to use energy when there is surplus electricity. I’ve seen Octopus charge my car in early evening rather than over night. It’s even charged during the day this summer. I was still paid the EV rate however.

[@michael.randall5034]

The same happened with LPG that was cheap once now gone up. Problem with these Lithium Ion battery cars or vehicles is that they keep spo.ntaneously combusting. This has been happening for 30 years well before these batteries were placed in vehicles. A known fire risk and yet few seem to care about safety.

[@brendansheehan7714]

I see where you are coming from but it is hard to differentiate various electricity usage. There is always the question of implementability of any tax / law. I think there will just be a higher VAT rate for usage above a certain high threshold and or a higher road tax. With more EVs though there will be less money leaving the country.

[@alexfawcett1448]

They are really messing it up with road tax again. Charging another 400 quid for premium EV . They did the same with plugin hybrids, which made me just have self charging. Why would you spend over 40k on bigger battery etc to be walloped for more road tax per year it doesn't make sense. Better to stay in old diesel or petrol as it's cheaper to run . I nearly stayed in my diesel cx5 as it was cheaper than my hybrid in 2022 .People are still going to stay in ICE for as long as possible due to all negatives that most of us will have with an EV

[@steveknight878]

Cheaper to run? I doubt it. I'm saving about £1000 a year on fuel alone - let alone maintenance.

[@edc1569]

Self charging or is it self discharging 😂

[@IainGraham-k7v]

The EV mandate will bankrupt every car manufacturerer by 2027 so we are all ferked.

[@johnbrown3951]

Another interesting take on the world of getting from A to B. You have just reminded me exactly why I got out of EV motoring. Don't get me wrong I loved my i-Pace for comfort & speed and cost of running it for my wifes commute and going for lunch at a weekend within 150 miles radius. It just did not work for driving up North to visit family in a Scottish winters day in sub zero temperatures on a daily round trip of over 300 miles requiring two charge stops. The premium of £100 per month over the price of Insurance of our normal ice cars was a bit sore and charging away from home base always niggled as when we purchased the vehicle charging was free with the Scottish government scheme then was withdrawn when electricity prices rose dramatically with the Ukraine conflict not long after we purchased the car. The final nail in the coffin was the devaluation of the car by two thirds in two years bearing in mind it was a three year old car when we bought it and I had expected that the hit of depreciation would have been felt by the previous owner. How wrong I was.

[@keithburton2791]

A youtuber has just done a study. He has taken a 3 year ev and looked at depreciation and the equivalent in petrol/diesel. The depreciation in EV is way more. Some have lost upto 50% of the on the road price. That is 3 years.

[@rogerfinch7651]

Every car has 40-60% depreciation over three years from new. Has been the same (other than Covid times) for the past few decades. They literally show you this in car magazines

[@johnnodge4327]

An ICE cost of ownership is more than an equivalent EV, once all maintenance, fuel costs, and depreciation is factored in. If you're worried about depreciation, buy second hand, than someone else has taken that initial hit, same as an ICE car.

[@keithburton2791]

@rogerfinch7651 The guy I watched was showing equivalent cars and yes had depreciation on them but not as much by some difference. No one wants EV .

[@keithburton2791]

@johnnodge4327 I wouldn't take an EV for free. Also not able to charge at home 😕

[@garybarry9365]

Ok so make the smart choice. Buy a used one. I got a 3 and half year old Model 3 LR with 26k on it for 21,500. Bargain

[@peterthompson9318]

Something not mentioned - aside from the pricing issue, public charging points are typically located some distance from immediate assistance, at the far end of carparks and retails areas etc., meaning a vulnerable person may have far more difficulties than filling an ICE car on a petrol forecort. The cables on the ultra rapid charges are thick and very heavy. There's no way my elderly mother would be able to manhandle one of those!

[@rogerfinch7651]

Depends on the location and charger. I’ve used them at moto services right next to the entrance and also the kem power chargers are on overhead bendy arms to carry the weight. I’d be more concerned with wheelchair access as they can be sited up on kerbs making it impossible

[@RichardWorton-f9g]

Times are changing. The days of lonely old rapids in isolated car parks are over. Where you do see rapids in places such as supermarkets or retail parks, they can't put them right next to the door otherwise selfish pricks just treat them as convenient parking spaces.

[@johnmackay5288]

According to published figures, SMMT etc, 82%+ of EVs are corporate bought for tax reasons for the company and the employee (BIK). They are too expensive for the majority. You can buy a really good ICE car for £3000-£12000 which is more in the affordability window for most of the public. It’s not all about loving / hating EVs, it’s about money and value for money.

[@lithgowwilson5157]

This is one of the most sensible comments I have seen about EV vs ICE. It isn't about loving or hating it's about affordability and value for money, well said.

[@gwynbartley9176]

Isn’t there an insurance problem. There’s a KZbin contributor with a Porsche Taycan who shows on screen a letter from Porsche stating don’t park it in your garage ( apparently for fire safety reasons). I think he had a letter from his house insurers saying that they would not insure him with an EV on the drive. This, if correct, is worrying. Additionally the Taycan battery has Porsche warranty for up to 8 years or 100,000 miles. Once the warranty expires has the car much value? I would like to see EVs being successful but they’re still at the early stages.

[@edc1569]

Plenty of old evs out of battery warranty on auto trader for you to see what happens to their values.

[@Sargatanas2k2]

13:30 This makes sense if you own your own home and never plan on using a different brand of car with a different charger. But how do people who live in flats,busy city centres or people who rent charge their car at home?

[@FlatToRentUK]

They shouldn't buy an EV. Nobody is forcing them to.

[@Sargatanas2k2]

@FlatToRentUK Except in 10 years when buying new ICE engines is banned, and slowly the used market falls away. Yep, not being forced to indeed.

[@FlatToRentUK]

@@Sargatanas2k2 Let me highlight the key part of your post - "In 10 years". 10 years is a long time. Have some patience.

[@Sargatanas2k2]

@@FlatToRentUK What's going to change in any of those areas in 10 years? How are flat owners going to be able to charge a car? How are busy city centres suddenly going to have room for them?

[@FlatToRentUK]

@@Sargatanas2k2 I can only speculate but there will clearly be significant improvements in range and charging speeds. Infrastructure is clearly improving as well but needs to continue instead of stalling at some point. For those who park on terraced streets there are potential solutions with charging from lampposts or cable gullies. For flats with their own parking the freeholders need to have chargers installed and put a system in place where residents reserve timeslots for charging. For those who absolutely cannot be served by one of those solutions then the improvements in range and charging speed should make recharging very comparable to refilling with petrol/diesel now. I.e. adding 400 miles of range in 10-15 minutes. The problem there is cost, the government needs to legislate so that EV drivers who have to rely on it don't get ripped off. The last government as usual left everything to "the market" and we get 79p per KWh which is extortionate. This can't be allowed to happen. They should be allowed to charge for the same cost per mile of petrol/diesel. So unfortunately there will be some people unable to take advantage of some of the huge benefits of EVs by charging at home for pennies. But I can see a situation where nobody is any worse off than they would be currently. At this moment in time though unless you can charge cheaply at home I wouldn't get one.

[@ObiePaddles]

WLTP stands for Way Less Than Predicted. True for ICE and EV. True for ICE and EV. I often get WLTP or better…because I learned to drive in the late 1970s and we didn’t have much cash so had to make every gallon (yes gallon) go a long way. Nice balanced video.

[@PetrolPed]

😂😂😂

[@andywaring12]

This is an important point - those of us who learned to drive in the oil crisis of the 70s were taught how to squeeze more mileage out of our fuel. Even easier with one pedal driving and even greater increase in efficiency. I too get WLTP on all non-motorway journeys except in the very coldest of conditions. When I drive over 70mph (which I would do almost always in previous ICE cars, but now virtually never) efficiency is hit hard. Permanent 9 points on my licence for 25 years with ICE cars - none since I've owned an EV. My insurance has gone down, too!

[@iainmartin1015]

I drive an Electric van for work. As a mode of transport to go and see my customers its perfect as my main area is well below the range of the van. I have no charger at home but I do at work. The issue is if I'm out and about for a few days in a row. There are just not enough rapid chargers around. Its all very well for the government to say there is xxx number every month but most of them are only 7KW chargers. There needs to be at least half a dozen rapid chargers in EVERY car park in EVERY town not just at motorway services. The other way to think about it is - "Time per distance" charging. 7KW charging gives you 30 miles of range per hour charging.

[@ronnieright4935]

I like a lot of other people dont like to be told what car you can buy, you will never convince me to buy a EV.

[@TheVedabuss]

@@ronnieright4935 how did you cope when you were told you can only drive an ICE car?

[@ronnieright4935]

@@TheVedabuss A non=plus question, all im saying is i dont like dictators i will buy what i want, not bullied into the fantasy that we will be driving a milk float in 5 to 10 years time, plus i probably wont be alive long enough to worry about it.

[@peterrolt6403]

@@TheVedabuss over the moon I would think!

[@johnnybgood7812]

I said that when I was told I’d have to give up my horse and cart.

[@angusross-thomson1288]

Who is telling you what car to buy? Have I missed something? I’m quite happy with my horse and cart 😉

[@severnsea]

Pete, you're missing the point. If you have engine problems on a 70.000 mile car you can replace the engine with a recon, often for under a couple of grand. It's do-able. If you have the same problem with an electric car and something goes wrong with the battery pack, it's a write off. The cost of replacing the battery pack, even if you wanted to keep the car, is prohibitive and the people buying the sort of cars in that price range simply couldn't afford it. They would probably be left in the position of having to give up riving completely and may still have years of HP payments to pay out for their now-useless EV. That's even if we wanted them and can charge them at home - half the population can't. Most people buying in this price range don't think about depreciation, they know that when it comes to trade-in time it's probably not going to be worth very much anyway.

[@leotek..]

if you have a battery problem on a 70,000 mile electric car, the manufacturer will replace it for free, my friend. so please get informed before spewing nonsense.

[@edc1569]

This is a problem after 8 years for most people and by that point people have crashed enough them you can get a used battery for a few grand which I suspect will be more reliable than your used turbo engine of unknown history.

[@johnclayney2933]

Video seems to be positioned as defending EVs rather than the subjects no one talks about such as the damage to the planet mining all the lithium, nickel and cobalt does to the planet in typically very poor countries the higher carbon footprint of making an EV, the fact they are typically half a tonne heavier than ICE equivalents (more mining!), tyre wear etc. The subjects discussed in this video are the ones everyone talks about over and over.

[@MattD-y3g]

You don’t mention the cost of replacing a battery. And if garages are willing to do it… They’d rather sell you another car!

[@jspa8030]

This is truly one of the most considered videos, and bits of journalism in general, I’ve seen on EV ownership.

[@PetrolPed]

Wow…thank you 🙏🏻

[@kez2164]

As an EV driver of 4 years with my only car being an EV - I agree with most of your general comments and thought it was a very balanced analysis. However, I would say that people who cannot charge at home tend to use slower/cheaper chargers more often (e.g. 7kW chargers) to charge whilst they are at work/gym/shopping etc.. And/Or there are subscriptions which reduces the cost of charging - notably Tesla charger prices are much cheaper than the Gridserve price you quoted, so the cost per mile is lower. Also there are apps such as Co-Charge which enable EV drivers to use other people's EV chargers on their driveway, so if your neighbour has a driveway/charger but you don't, you can still use that EV charger, it's a 'hidden' network of EV chargers. @petrolped You should also consider doing some interviews with Charge UK on the channel, you could ask your audience for ideas for questions?

[@leonmorley9091]

I agree, no sensationalism. Just honest facts about EV ownership.

[@Avtur-g4x]

Yes, I totally agree, as stated in the intro, a straight forward presentation of facts. I hope this goes viral among people considering buying an EV. I work in the motor industry, there is a lot of poor information coming from people within the industry.

[@andywaring12]

Agree completely. Great video. Very fair appraisal of the current state of the developing market. I love the driving experience of an EV but completely understand that they don't suit many people given the current market and infrastructure. With home charging and only occasional long trips requiring public charging they are ideal. With no off road charging or daily trips requiring a public charger, much, much more challenging.

[@S2000Y]

Great informative video but there are so many variables to consider. I'll stick with my 18 year old (182mph) flat 6 petrol guzzler until i depart the electrified world.

[@ScottRae]

I love how a £20000 car is affordable now. Someone should tell people! New, premium cars are priced to be leased now, not bought, and subscriptions just push us further and further away from ownership. Reasonably new used PCP is probably the way forward right now - you've got rid of most of the MASSIVE depreciation, reasonably low mileage, maybe still under some manufacturer warranty, decent life expectancy with a 10 year battery warranty. BUT you're not tied to it forever - you can hand the bloody thing back in 3 / 4 years when tech / propulsion / range has moved on. Having just got an EV, WLTP is a joke here in winter - knock a third off and you're probably looking at a more realistic number. That's not a problem to be fair here, I no longer want to do 400 miles in a single sitting - I'm going to want to stop about 200 miles in anyway and now I'll have a break and lunch / coffee, but I'd rather know the truth than pretend that my car has a 320 mile range! My big problem is infrastructure - it's just not there, there isn't enough of it and public charging is extortionate. It's no fun queuing chaotically at a freezing service station to fight over a rapid charger, taking the slower charger cos it was empty and still being charged 79p per Kw over Christmas wasn't fun. And looking at those Road Tax prices, that's ridiculous!!!!!!!! Where's the bloody incentive to go green now?!

[@stefanbadass5357]

The number of straws being clutched in this piece is mind boggling. Hope the COOL AID tastes sweet.

[@armacgregor]

Try towing with an EV and you will spend longer charging than driving.

[@PetrolPed]

Been there and done that… kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqCvln6Ig9iGpJYsi=-4d1KFJx48WLyiea

[@SDK2006b]

@@PetrolPed - That iX M60 is lush !

[@bobphillips2188]

But there is the thing that even you, Mr Ped, haven't really mentioned - a car has a suggested range by the manufacturer, of say 300 miles. We already know that means, realistically, 250 miles. Then we are often told that 20-80% is the optimal range for... what exactly? Long term battery health is one I guess (but which no one will care about if they buy an EV new, and intend to pass it on after 3-5 years, after which it isn't their problem), but more immediately, the time it takes to charge a car on a long journey, especially if rapid charging isn't always available. Plus the fact that repeated rapid charging WILL degrade the battery compared to slower charging (as before though, new car buyers won't care). So charging from, say, 3% to 100%, and at rapid charging, is the worst scenario for battery life. Back to 20-80%; that is only 60% of the realistic 250 miles, so we are down to an every day range of 150 miles. Add to that the fact that almost nobody will want to be anywhere with under 10% charge without a sure fire charger at their disposal, never a given when out and about. Then you find you are in a queue, it's raining and the kids/grandmother are already mythering about the wait, the rain, and all the other possible things that might attend this type of situation, and you have to stay in your car in order not to lose your place in the queue while you wait half an hour each for, say, the two cars in front of you, then wait another probable half an hour when you do finally plug in. If you're lucky. Given that, like a commenter below, I am a pensioner, just a State Pensioner with no other income, and my 17 year old diesel Volvo will have to do indefinitely (let's face it, it owes me nothing, but it is still environmentally more effective to run an old car to its final death than change cars every five minutes), I would still replace it with another similar vehicle and run it until the Gov withdraws supply/sale of diesel. Those of us with severely restricted resources do like watching these types of videos, but laugh at the thought of a £23K vehicle, new or second hand! People with money never think about all those people on really low incomes, which may well not be their fault, just circumstance. It's cloud cuckoo land matey.

[@vacoasrebel6729]

He also mentioned MG as bargain bucket. MG EV's have just been noted as the most unreliable by a UK motoring press survey! A private buyer needs to be a mug to buy one and even bigger mug to buy a used one!

[@octaneparker6200]

Kia Ev3 with 375 miles range, starts from about £36k not £32k that's gives 254 mile range, where can you get a new mg4 that does 329 for £22k you are quoting longest range but the price for the smallest battery.

[@Torchman-]

Totally agree.

[@lithgowwilson5157]

I agree there is a lot of manipulation of the figures here...

[@octaneparker6200]

​@@lithgowwilson5157 well put

[@woods19364]

Surely the difference between the wear and tear, is that you can replace all of the main mechanicals over time and keep the car running but when the batteries give up the ghost, the main part of an EV in cost is the battery, so you might as well have another car. I think that they are so worried about this in Europe, that I believe they are looking at legislation to prevent combustion owners cars being repaired.

[@diannafiredal]

These days, the battery is going to outlive the car. This isn't a concern outside of battery failures due to faults, which given the improvements in battery tech and the battery warranty most manufacturers are providing these days, are a minimal risk. Batteries are lasting about 40% longer than manufacturers had projected, based on the accelerated wear testing which was done to work out what the lifespan should be. Once a battery no longer has the energy capacity that a car needs to be practical, it can be repurposed in areas where the weight isn't crucial, i.e. powering buildings. So it will still have economic value even once it's retired from a car. Besides all of that, the cost of battery packs is coming down over time, so replacement costs should do the same.

[@oldebill1807]

Did we miss the part where EV batteries are lasting 10+ years and emerging research suggests that 12+ or more in real world usage likely?

[@spiritualdeath101]

*Electric cars* - apart from the following misgivings - they are OK. > high initial cost > smart meter installation at home advised > cannot pay to charge with cash > big depreciation > battery compartment vulnerable to impact > battery repair costs tens of thousands > insurance costs can be high > ground clearance impaired by battery location > stiffer suspension necessary for increased weight > batteries in a hybrid can weigh 100kg > batteries in a BEV can weigh 500kg > few independent mechanics familiar with EVs > aftermarket in spares is limited > software is prone to glitches and dependent on updates

[@ikke12345]

In the cost of charging versus petrol there is (for now) also the excise duty on petrol that you don't have when charging at home. I suspect when the revenu of the excises on petrol will begin to drop, an excise duty on electricity used for charging ev's will make it's apearance (including when charging at home!)

[@johnnodge4327]

Putting fuel duty on home charging would be difficult to achieve. Especially if the home owner has solar and battery, so can effectively charge with zero power from the grid .

[@rogerfinch7651]

They charge 20% vat on public charging and 5% on home electric. They won’t know how to charge you more for your EV at home, as it’s combined. What if you have solar too? No chance ..

[@grahamatsea3575]

And that's why they want people on smart meters!

[@RichardWorton-f9g]

Complete nonsense I am afraid. Far too difficult to put into practise and far too easy to circumnavigate. For example, if they make my wallbox report my charging in order to tax it, I'll just use the granny charger plugged into a 3 pin plug. How the hell can they tell its not just the kettle switched on. When excise revenue drops too far the only viable option is road tolls (pay per mile) and thay will apply to all users.

[@steveknight878]

I'm sure that they would like to find a way to put duty on EV electricity, but it is hard to see how they can do that in a way that cannot be circumvented. I suppose they could try doing it on any cheap, overnight, electricity - the 7p that Octopus charge, or 4.5p that Tomato charge - but I suspect that there would be a lot of resistance to that - from, for instance, people with heat pumps that have been encouraged to put them in.

[@philpoole5670]

All these figures quoted on mileage …. Are never done with more than 1 person …. Yes we don’t go on holiday or do long trips every day but when we do we would be going on holiday or days out and more likely to have a car full … we need vehicles that tick all the boxes not just 1 person commuting to and from work … and not everyone has the funds to buy more than one car just for specific reasons and we all wish we had 23 degrees in temp every day …. And I also tow a caravan and there’s been no real test with a family and car full towing a loaded caravan that would be real world test …. Battery has a place in the motoring world but it can not be the only answer a very dangerous route to take without alternatives inc Petrol Diesel and hydrogen

[@gartgreenside3657]

I have two cars - the fun car and the car that can do family holidays. I'd only consider and EV if I could afford 3. It might make sense if my other half bought an EV, but she has a 14 year old fiesta with 20k on the clock, so no point in trading that in!

[@lithgowwilson5157]

There have been numerous videos showing what happens when you tow a caravan with an EV, just have a look in the KZbin search box, they have ALL come to the same conclusion, even the mighty Teslas range drops like a stone, and don't even get me started on range in the hills of Scotland.... If you want to tow, don't buy an EV, end of.

[@nickmayo6707]

Last week, as a country, we apparently had one week of gas supply left which is used to create electricity most of the time (notwithstanding a small contribution from wind if it’s blowing). No one seems to be connecting the dots that EVs (ignoring the reality that they are environmentally unfriendly until about 60000 miles and excluding the slave labour problem) are only any use if we have enough electricity. For the time being, besides anything else, splitting energy reliance between gas and petrol seems wise. In the end it’s about where does the power/energy come from. Edison understood this when he set up GE.

[@bordersw1239]

So much wrong in your comments, I don’t know where to start.

[@ianmitchell6279]

Renewables may have been a small percentage 10 years ago but average for GB over the last year was renewables approx 40% of total and fossil approx 30%.

[@johnnodge4327]

​@@bordersw1239 Like an EV has effectively offset its manufacturing carbon footprint in less than 3 years. Or charging an EV on a gas powered grid is still lower carbon than burning fuel in an ICE vehicle, because the engine is so much less efficient than a huge power station. Or that renewables make up about 40% of the UK's electric generation, so EVs produce much less CO2 per mile than an equivalent ICE vehicle.

[@rogerfinch7651]

Wonder how I drive my EV using wind power then. Ripple energy pays me each month for the wind. Not like we live on an island with wind 😂😂😂 you do know it takes a lot of electricity to generate petrol in refineries right? Like a cities worth? Please stop trolling..

[@TomanswerAi]

He’s conveniently forgotten to mention the absolutely grim pollution in cities. Absolutely rank and unliveable in certain areas. Centre of London tonnes better these days but still a way to go….and the answer to the gas issues is don’t rely on foreign imports where they can have us by the balls. Get self sufficient with nuclear, renewables etc. win win we don’t need their oil either.

[@mikldude9376]

You neglected to mention the main reason for high EV insurance , and that is absolutely due to the extra risk liability of an EV in the event of a fire , of which EVs are way more likely to burn down anything in close proximity including buildings, your house , other cars . The mere fact you are charging with high voltage your massive battery in your motor vehicle does also add risk , because electrical appliances and especially chargers do fail on occasion as do battery management systems . We own an electric vehicle , and it never parks near the house , it parks at the end of the driveway. EVs does come with a lot of compromises , that you do not have to make with conventional cars, for a start range does degrade on electric cars , and it's probably less of a worry in UK because UK is tiny , but if you have to travel a large distance in an emergency , or for some other reason , an EV even with the fast charging is going to add hours to your run. And this is fact. I also might add , if you have a internal combustion engined vehicle with good range , you may not even need to think about re filling for over a week and even two weeks in some cases , that also gives you an opportunity to go to the fuel station we wherever you happen to be near and pick the cheapest fuel seller which can take 20 or 30 dollars of your fill ! Add to that , EVs suck on flat long highways , they suck at high speed, they have very poor endurance when towing . As for buying an old EV with the original battery , that's just asking for trouble imo. Buying a good used ice car that has been serviced properly and looked after , I'd go that direction any day of the week.

[@markgeezey1809]

I from the UK but live in Sweden and I have to say I am a big petrol head after being fortunate to own a number of nice ICE cars. However after owning two EV’s, now EV6 GT my latest. I think arguably I would never go back. I think the biggest issue in Blighty is firstly the charging network and secondly the huge amount of false information you hear and especially about battery degradation, charging and reliability. Living in the Nordics we don’t have the same feeling. Actually far from it and in the likes of Norway it is almost all EV’s being bought. In no way do I have any issues travelling around Sweden or actually in to Europe and remember Sweden is a big country. So if the UK got its act together on charging and a lot of the media stopped being negative. Then i think the up take would be huge. Just to put it into context Rory Reid borrowed an old Tesla modelS which had been a taxi and had over 400,000mls on it and was still working fine. I think in the UK you have a great advantage currently as prices much cheaper for you guys on second hand EV’s and should take advantage of it. 🤔. Plus not to forget on longer journeys you want a piss/food break and the car certainly has finished before I have. We have a lot of 350kw chargers over here so on cars like mine it is stupidly quick and then there is Tesla superchargers, which is now open to all cars. So charging for me on long journeys is never a consideration. Plus remember the more public chargers there are hopefully the more competitive it becomes price wise?? Also many companies now specialising in battery cell replacement and therefore less need for insurance companies to write them off. And unfortunately don’t get me going on what China will be bringing over soon, I think people will be staggered? But great sum up Ped and a good even balance that is more realistic. 👍

[@johnbaker5533]

The public charging has been an issue but it Is going much better now. For decent 150kW+ chargers we have over 7000 now from 1700 2 years or 4 times as many. I expect another 5000 this year. We will be getting the Chinese stuff some no EU tax on them here.

[@markgeezey1809]

@@johnbaker5533regardless of the EU taxes they are certainly becoming more popular here. Especially considering how the level of quality has gotten over the last 2-3 years. You can understand why not many German EV’s especially, are not selling in China and particularly if they are 3/4 times more expensive but not that much better in quality. Looking at some of the latest Zeekr stuff, (who by the way the parent company Geely, own Lotus, Volvo, Polestar) are bringing out some really nice cars. Good the UK is improving as certainly having many more 150-350kw charges is in all honesty the key to stop people worrying about range anxiety or time charging. Obviously the irony is the vast amount of time most people travel less than 200mls on a daily basis. 🤷🏻

[@titibobo2000]

Recently I saw a video of an enormous queue of weekend skiers with their Teslas, waiting for charging in some small town in Sweden, all of them on their way back home. They were just sitting there with their cars, along the streets, helpless.

[@hunchanchoc8418]

@@titibobo2000 Yes - 20 chargers, all occupied and in use, thus dramatically reducing the quoted output from the chargers, thus taking longer to charge. And the queue was at least 50 cars long, with more joining. All probably running their heaters, because the outside temperature was about minus 15 celcius.

[@markgeezey1809]

@@titibobo2000i can guarantee that is not the norm. Usually these small ski resorts are limited as middle of nowhere and probably during a busy skiing period. Hence why so many EV’s sold here.

[@robinoconnor1203]

That was a very well balanced video, thanks Peter. A few things to mention, range is still an issue. I have noticed other than the Tesla charge points on Motorway services, people are waiting in line to get on a charger, hence the 20 minute rapid charge can take up to an hour. (that's when they are all working ) If I lived in or close to a city or town and used my car for a short commute, local running about to the shops etc and had a home charger, I would seriously look at an EV as a second car. That is the group of people the Government should be targeting.

[@cumbria0896]

My Ford Focus Diesel takes 5 minutes to fill and will do 650 miles (only slightly less in Winter) so until an EV does that they aren't worth having. Also the figures for EVs sold last year are completely fake as most are pre-registered by dealers to avoid fines and are all on Auto Trader as used. They have single figure mileages on them and discounted considerable so indicating just how desperate dealers are, to give such huge discounts rather than pay Government fines for not meeting EV sales targets. Also why are they all so downright UGLY!!

[@stephenballantyne]

"Until EVs can do 650 miles on a 5 minute fill they aren't worth having".....LOL! What an incredibly weird opinion to express.

[@G.5.B.H.M]

​@@stephenballantyneWhy? I agree with him.

[@stephenballantyne]

@G.5.B.H.M got news for you. It's possible for 2 people to have the same weird opinion.

[@peterwilliamson1825]

To put the cost of rapid charging into context. 20p per mile is the same as a car doing 32 MPG if the fuel costs £1.40 per litre. Whilst supermarket fuel might be cheaper where you live, you'll pay about that much for premium fuel and probably more at a motorway service station. However, you'll be paying the same pence per mile in a fossil fueled car for every single mile. If you can home charge with an EV, the vast majority of your driving will be 20 times cheaper.

[@robertanton1862]

"If you can home charge with an EV, the vast majority of your driving will be 20 times cheaper." until when, would you say? or you expect NEVER to pay a kind of "fuel duty on EVs?

[@peterwilliamson1825]

@robertanton1862 I'm not Mystic Meg, I can't predict the future. The future is just a concept in your head. It doesn't exist so I can only tell you about the here and now. One of the reasons why public rapid charging is expensive is because it's taxed at a different rate to domestic charging. Plus, if you have solar, it's perfectly possible to charge your car from sunshine.

[@robertanton1862]

@ "Plus, if you have solar, it's perfectly possible to charge your car from sunshine." no, it's not, I have solar panels on my house 4kWh, maximum allowed by the UK for a household. in the best summer day I generate only 24 kW on a single day but there's about 300 days in the UK without a "best summer day" and besides, I am away at work every day, and on weekends I take my family out and away from our house; how would I make use of my own solar?

[@peterwilliamson1825]

@@robertanton1862 I said it's possible. I didn't say it was possible for everyone because everyone's daily mileage is different. And your daily usage sounds to be more than my fault usage. Over the past 42,000 miles I've averaged 251 Wh/mi (3.98 mile per kW) so I use 10kW per day (rounded up, not down).

[@RatluBoogerbag]

There are a few things putting me off. Firstly, to get an EV with an interior that meets the quality of my 15k used Audi, I would have to spend well past 60k. Not only that, but there are currently no EV estates as far as I'm aware, so I couldn't get myself and my bike to the alps. And when I'm driving to the alps, I don't want to stop to charge every few hours because I would never make it in one day. At the moment, an EV is just not even in the conversation for me.

[@PetrolPed]

Good points 👍

[@geoffreyjones6019]

Not commenting on the charging or price, though regarding the latter there are some great used deals on EVs now, but there are a few estates, starting with the MG5 (at the cheap end) to the Porsche Taycan Turismo (slightly more pricey!). There’s also the Volkswagen ID7 Tourer, the BMW I5 Touring and the Audi A6 e-tron Avant.

[@Carlos1180]

My Jaguar i Pace cost 26k. It's 2021 with 17k miles and the interior is incredible. Heated and cooled seats, HUD, 360 cameras, heated wheel AND windscreen. Everything is proper calfskin leather. Absolute bargain. Even during the cold snap I'm seeing 255 mile range. I saw 265 with 10c temps with no heater on

[@UnderWarranty]

@@Carlos1180 That is a bargain, that car didn't hold value well at all. Got it at the right time

[@gertk2303]

How many hours do you drive in one go??

[@davidjohn05]

Great Video, a well-balanced critique. What really annoys me is the Government's attitude of saying on the one hand that we must get to zero emissions by 2035 (I think) but yet they are showing no schemes or initiative to encourage people to move to EVs. The first thing they do is put the Car Tax (or VED) to £190 and then hit you with a luxury Tax because let's face it most really good-looking EVs are £40,000+. Plus what are they doing about the infrastructure? Here in Northern Ireland, there are only about 60 of 150Kwh chargers at around the cost of £0.88p kwh and they have been put in by a local Grocery Retailer....where are the government and the car industry's involvement in this? I drive a Lexus ES Hybrid and I get on average about 43mpg which I think is great for a large luxury petrol car but what am I going to have to pay for an EV equivalent plus what price am I going to pay on Car Tax and Luxury tax?.....it just doesn't make sense. I would love to move to an EV but with the way Musk is carrying on with his right-wing politics and no encouragement from this Labour Government, I can't see this happening very soon

[@steveburland624]

Thanks Peter for your insight on this but I will stick with my petrol car for now , even tho I have off street parking I would not want an EV purely for the reason of the mine field of charging either at home or publicly the difference in pricing and road tax . Not to mention depreciation and the blandness of these EV cars truly make them so unappealing to petrol heads.

[@Lewis_Standing]

The minefield of home charging saves me almost £2000 a year. Pretty pleased with that. Despite regular trips to family across the country (we're in Newcastle, have family in Blackpool and Scarborough) I rarely ever have to charge anywhere but home. We all have EVs now and share our charger with visiting family. Super cheap 7p charging, and super convenient.

[@petergilbert9066]

You're right about difference in road tax cost. I'll take £190 for a year over the £5,500 for equivalent petrol or diesel. 🤑

[@MikeS-hs7lu]

A good effort to be objective about an emotive topic. Well done. Two subjects stand out for me. Firstly, the cost of running an EV is heavily weighted in favour of high/middle income people who can have off road charging. For those lower earners who have to rely on public charging, being charged between ten and twenty times as much to 'fuel' their EVs is an absolute disgrace in a democracy. That price differential would never be tolerated if it were, say, food or gas prices. Second, the question of 'want' is very important. For some people a car is a necessity and considerations about cost to purchase and run will be paramount. But, for many, many people a car is also a 'desire' and the choice is an emotional one. You only have to look at the car manufactures and the range and price of many cars to see just how big (and profitable) that market is. No government is going to be able to dictate to those customers what their 'desire' should be. If there aren't cars in the market that people really 'want' they are not going to spend the sums that they currently do. If all that is available if an EV those same customers will likely buy something basic and save many thousands. The car industry could see a huge fall in its revenues if current policy eventually outlaws all ICE cars.

[@leespowart2808]

Great information as always, I've always been a massive petrol head, but converted a year ago to the family car being EV after getting an i4 m50, great car and love it for daily use, but some of these changes are likely to make me move back as it was a financial decison for me, cost to run so much cheaper than previous cars such as C43 amg estate. Items like road tax, especially lux tax as most family EVs I would want are over 40k and the BIK percentage going up so much it's likely to make me go back to petrol, government need to think this through, also cost of public charging is crazy and lots of hassle, every time I've had issues with no charger, or broken. I'm Lucky that 95% of my trips are under 200 miles and 6p charging at home or solar, but if that wasn't true I wouldn't have one

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks for this 👍

[@geoffburgermeisterburge7212]

I still don’t understand your position. On one hand you have solar and cheap charging with relatively short trips, so you are happy with that, on the other you keep inferring that it may be cheaper you you to go back to ICE if the luxury car tax is introduced.

[@leespowart2808]

@geoffburgermeisterburge7212 I can understand what your saying here, I'm not saying it will be cheaper to switch back to ICE, though it might if I went sensible car, It's more as a petrol head the large gap made me switch and salary sacrifice with ultra low BIK, if the gap becomes smaller I would much rather have a nice V8 or V6 family car.

[@milesforrest6920]

Very on point and comprehensive! Top marks. As petrol head turned EV driver since 2019 you perfectly and susinctly explained everything. The only extra points I would add, noting you have a Zappi charger is that in summer you can do a significant milage with Solar if you have PV fitted at home. The other point is the servicing costs are dramatically cheaper as there isn't the consumables and wear items (clutches, etc). Also I might have mentioned the benifits of not drawing attention to yourself if you put your foot down with no noisy exhaust. Cleaner air. In the winter being able to remotely defrost and warm up the car is amazing. Not many ICE cars have this function but it's common with EVs as you don't need to have the engine running to make heat. I don't miss Scraping the ice off my old ICE car!

[@jimhardy1897]

an older car with 50 or 60 k is new to me.

[@MH30R]

You have missed a more significant point on the 2nd hand EV. How was it treated? Rough roads, impacts or accidents and the impacts on the battery. The battery fire risk on vehicles that have been treated roughly is much higher. Even if the battery life is higher than expected, how are you going to dispose of a pent battery? It remains a toxic waste issue that is not being addressed. Manufacturers who take the batteries back are just tipping them into landfill as opposed to recycling. Recycling is still too expensive and landfill is too easy. So we have a future problem that is accumulating at several thousand tonnes per year. What about the carbon emissions? It takes 7 times more carbon dioxide in the mining and manufacture of the EV than an ICE vehicle. Home charging is also an additional fire risk to the property, so check that you insurance covers it. I could not find a site far enough away from the family home to install an EV changing station (recommended 5m clearance). Lithium Ion battery fires burn at very high temps (2,000 degrees C) and they cannot be extinguished. Insurance companies are now starting to wake up to the risks associated with EVs and their inherent risks associated with the Lithium Ion batteries. And then there is the highly toxic smoke from an EV battery fire which may blanket your neighbourhood. Charging rates of batteries are very contentious as higher charging rates are detrimental to battery life. Fast and Ultra fast charges are worst for battery life. EVs based on Lithium Ion technology is the worst case of short sighted technology deployment based on a lie that they are zero carbon emissions. It is now illegal to advertise an EV as zero emissions in Australia because our Consumer watchdog has been educated. Early on, I was excited at the prospect and had an EV in my future garage. I even put a deposit down and then awoke up to the risks and impending environmental toxic mess they are creating. Check out a Lithium mine... I am not saying ICE is the way to go for the future, but we need a non toxic, low carbon emission battery technology that is not an extreme hazard to people, property, our neighbours and the environment.

[@MrWobling]

Pretty sure Kia EV3 uses 400V architecture, despite the fact the rest of the cars built on the eGMP platform are 800V.

[@Lewis_Standing]

Correct

[@petergilbert9066]

Although they are in the 800v class, many of the models are in the 500-600 nominal voltage range.

[@tonycromby2704]

You've done a great job explaining it all but it is all still way too complicated, people haven't got time to research and study volts, kilowatts, amps, real world mileage etc and i've seen too many videos showing how complicated it is to charge when out and about, different apps for different suppliers, and then chargers not working etc etc. For people to adopt EVs it needs to be simplified to the point were it is cheap, easy and stress free to get on the road and just drive. Why don't road side chargers just accept credit cards? The global payment system we all have in our pockets. No you have to download an app, link it to the charger, then pay through the app, and that's if you get a signal! Not to mention queuing for a charger or the time it takes to charge depending on what charger it is. Utter madness. The only way it works is as you say charge at home, off street parking, and local journeys hmmm almost like a 15 minute city plan...

[@alexschievink]

Where is this 300miles on petrol coming from???? My petrol car does more than 500 miles summer and winter and refuel is 5 minutes!!

[@oldebill1807]

Remind me again how often you travel 300+miles? An EV recharges overnight in the garage 90%+ of the time, no need to make a special journey to the petrol station so that you can stand out in the elements for 5-minutes to refuel it.

[@vacoasrebel6729]

At least 1 day nearly every week! ​@@oldebill1807

[@dodgywheelsandropeywiring5697]

You can't not be unbias on EV's, they are government mandated which requires the use of FORCE. Ideas so good we're being FORCED to buy them. Home charging also will be much more expensive than you claim as Ed Milliband is going make damn sure you pay through the nose for home charging.

[@marklancaster6558]

As a disabled driver, on a low income, who has no off street parking and who fairly regularly does over 300 mile journeys to visit relatives, EVs are not viable. My current car does around 450 miles on a single tank of petrol so to begin with 'filling it up' would be more expensive with an EV. I can do my trip to my family in Cornwall with no stop for fuel on a journey of 6-7 hours (on a good day). With EVs this would go up significantly even if I could fine a charging post that had nobody who wanted to use it and was actually working (I have seen countless KZbin videos of drivers finding charging ports not working or long queues waiting to use them, and let's face it a queue at an EV charging post will take a great deal of time to go down in relation to petrol stations. I understand the need for EVs, we need to reduce emissions significantly, but at the moment the infrastructure for the vast majority of road users is just not there. If you have off street parking, are relatively well off and can charge at home all well and good but for the rest of us it is a nightmare. If I was forced to use an EV it would be very difficult to run and by the looks of things a great deal more expensive too. Interesting and informative video Pete. Thanks.

[@oldebill1807]

No argument. Current EVs do *not* fit your use case. Stay with your current vehicle until they do.

[@77gravity]

If you're going to charge your car at home, do NOT do it "in the garridge" - it needs to be outside, away from things that will catch fire. EVs catch fire when charging (and also when just parked, and being driven, and in accidents) - but you do NOT want it to self-immolate IN YOUR HOUSE. I know I'll catch some flak for this, but I don't care. I am a firefighter, I know what I'm talking about. This is not "just an opinion", it is based on knowing the topic, and looking at the evidence. EVs are great, in many ways, and they have a great future for many (not all) use needs. But they CATCH FIRE. They do. Smetimes when just sitting there. And Yes, ICE cars also catch fire - but this is VERY rare for a stationary vehicle.

[@philipbrown2097]

Thanks Ped, great video. One aspect you didn’t mention is ongoing maintenance costs. I have an EV and it is serviced every two years and the cost is far cheaper than my old diesel.

[@OhMyLaurens]

Same here, always the same deal- a quick checkover and new AC filters. Also a check on the brakes, make sure they aren't starting to rust since they're barely used.

[@PetrolPed]

Yep. Very true 👍

[@Carlos1180]

Just don't buy a Jaguar. Pricing no different from a petrol car. In 2 years I'm looking at a £960 bill because they say they have to replace the brake hoses. If I was doing that myself I can do it for £200 max, all in including fresh brake fluid. Taking a 3 year service plan knocks £300 off though so this time I'll do it but after that I'll do my own servicing

[@rogerfinch7651]

@@Carlos1180it’s be different in the new jag 😂😂😂

[@sagalout]

@@Carlos1180yeah, I had an iPace and the servicing was stupidly expensive - they even tried to sell me an engine flush 😂

[@clivepierce1816]

A well balanced analysis. We run two EVs - an 8 year old Nissan Leaf which we use as a run-around and a 1 year old MG5 which is used for long journeys. Contrary to media reporting, range has never really been an issue, where as access to public chargers occasionally is. In its 8 years, the Leaf has never failed despite the fact that is driven through 6 inches of mud and cow dung twice a day every day, across fields, and through flood water, sometime several feet deep. Running costs are a tenth of our old petrol and diesel vehicles but we do have off-road charging and solar PV. Would we go back to the ICE? No - the disadvantages of EVs are far outweighed by the benefits.

[@Jake.Warren]

Great video PP, I think this one will do good numbers! I’m 4 years in now with my first EV, planning to change our other car (currently ICE) for a Renault 5 E-Tech later this year. I completely agree with you that being able to charge at home makes owning one very easy, I completely understand why people that can’t will be worried about the 2030 mandate. Some of the anti-EV propaganda out there is unbelievable though, complete nonsense.

[@WinfrithOsmington]

The not inconsiderable costs of installing a home charger should be factored into the EV running cost equation and a calculation of the tiime taken to pay for itself🎉

[@richfixescars]

I've done 8k miles this year in my MG4 for £180 of electricity. Petrol would be about £1200, charger cost £750.

[@dvs21a]

It is horses for courses. This country isn't close to being in a position for the majority of cars to become EVs, and it won't be for decades, if ever. For years, I was driving a thousand miles a week, and I have no off-street parking. Electric was impossible. My circumstances changed a couple of years ago, and now I have an electric car because it is the best option for me now. Public fast charging is hit and miss, but with a BP subscription, I can usually find one of their chargers and avoid lots of large pre-authorisations sitting on my card for days at a time. They just bill me at the end of the month. Things work at the moment for me... We will see how it goes, but if my mileage goes up dramatically again, I'm going to have to switch back to diesel.

[@quatrecheeze]

The country can easily cope with the majority of cars becoming EVs in the anticipated time frame. It won't happen overnight I've owned EVs since 2018 and it's better now than it's ever been for charging

[@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270]

Google 'Six Myths Busted about EVs'. It takes you to the National Grid website. This should ease your mind.

[@oldebill1807]

and the supporting research for this assertion is ...?

[@beatmonkey100]

One of the issues I've seen is the amount of chargers there are in motorway services for the growing amount of EV's. Travelling back from Cornwall to Bristol just after Christmas in my 2016 diesel Mondeo I popped into Exeter services and had to queue to enter because of the EV's were all waiting for a vacant charger.

[@gazzaman28]

Very fair there, Ped. I went to the trouble of getting a driveway built and am reaping the benefits, our 2019 Kona (bought last year for £13k) can be run for less than 3p/mile on home charging, with a 220 mile range even in the depths of winter. For motoring on a budget, if you have a driveway then getting a used EV is an absolute no brainer IMO. But...without a driveway I don't see any benefit. Unless you have plenty of money and a green conscience I don't see the point, it will cost you more and be more inconvenient to boot. This is the biggest problem the government has to overcome if they want to get people without driveways out of petrol & diesel cars, make residential public charging cheaper & more convenient.

[@carlgrainger2053]

But they're not really that green are they?

[@gazzaman28]

@carlgrainger2053 I mean, sure, a push bike is better of course, but even not talking about the CO2 reduction, there's still an obvious lack of locally polluting gasses which cause untold respiratory diseases. It's not a magic bullet on fixing climate change but it's a damn good start on that road.

[@karlhulme8014]

So many would have the added expense of destroying their front garden and paving over it. Doesn’t sound very environmentally friendly.

[@gazzaman28]

@@karlhulme8014 maybe dig an oil well in your front garden instead then...? ;)

[@rubyandrenaetheminiatureda6988]

Very useful video Pete. I would add as an EV user… that for business mileage claims on company cars, our company sticks rigidly to the HMRC advisory fuel rates which are 7ppm (or EVs), and so if using public charging points you can (as i have) find yourself out of pocket for each mile claimed. The flip side is that when using my home charger I do make a small amount of money for each mile travelled/claimed.

[@damindra]

Great video pete, now for a dose of reality i think that was missed Whether you charge at home or elsewhere, and you religiously ensure 10% charge always minimum, so let's take 300miles (not many with that range and especially in winter), that gives 30miles You have an emergency, so example need to get to a relative who is more than 30miles away, you have to charge the car, but due to bad weather no electric available in area, what do you do, this is not that uncommon in uk In a petrol/diesel, you can get someone to bring a can of petrol or diesel if the worst of situations arises, you can't do that with ev Do you see the issue? But say electric is available, you have to then think well it's not just getting there, how about getting back or back to a place where I can charge the car which means more time added to getting back rather than just driving home! Depreciation is not good, because someone, mostly lease companies now have to cover this, and that means many of these companies going out of business I think This whole 10-80% think well that means if 300 is max, thats 60miles less immediately, and in winter probably 100miles potentially So 200miles, but then charging the car at home, you have 10% left and want to go somewhere that night as some one has invited you and it's 60miles away, normally you would jump in car and go to fuel station and on your way, but ev, you need to now charge it to cover minimum 120miles if your feeling lucky, again not practical Finally, I have never come across an ice car having to turn off the heating to get more range, yet the other day in fog, an ev was turning off its lights until people flashed them, and yet turned them off later, were they saving electric by having the lights off? In the UK ev cannot work, like you mentioned, more than one car on drives, with those that have a drive, urban areas, where an ev would make sense for short journeys, but then if they want a long drive the range anxiety, it's just senseless The ev forces you where to stop whereas with a ice car you can choose where to stop, simple as that So there you go, my thoughts EV will not work, maybe for 30% like Toyota ceo mentioned, but for everyone else, hybrid, alternative fuels and hydrogen as the obvious options Oh and as one final thought, if every car was EV, the grid would not cope, it would cost trillions not billions to implement the infrastructure and still have the issues of charging.... Finally, charging times, this can also be a big issue at home, as cars with bigger batteries taking 15hrs to charge !

[@PetrolPed]

Thanks for this 🙏🏻

[@TheVedabuss]

This essay is stretching the worst case scenarios here, I've driven 63k miles in 3 years and drive around europe, no issues at all.

[@petergilbert9066]

As you do over 100k miles per year and live in an off grid cabin out in the back of beyond you're probably better off sticking with your diesel for now ⛽️ 👍

[@stever5648]

What a load of crock. I'd suggest EV drivers are more likely to have full capacity in their "tank" than petrol/diesel owners. Best tell the national grid then that there's a problem as they've said there isn't one with capacity, but guess you know more than them.

[@RuislipResident-v7p]

Excuses excuses. Keep spewing out those toxic fumes for ever more then.

[@pmrribeiro]

I've been waiting for electric cars to be a viable alternative for decades. The battery developments we've seen in the latest years, more than anything else have made it possible.Great to see someone finally addressing how different the owner experience can be if you are able to charge at home, versus if you aren't. As for the cars themselves, they suffer from the same issues as most new cars, as driver engagement is pushed further down the list of priorities, cars get larger, heavier, and catering to a single form factor: SUV. The only thing missing from your analysis, IMO, is the weight issue, as this still affects EVs more than conventional vehicles, and the the added expense in tires, as EVs, due to the higher weight and instant torque need more expensive tires, and wear them out faster than conventional cars.

[@johnnodge4327]

Our EV has done 12k miles on the tyres so far, and only worn them down by 2mm. It's looking like they'll last another 24k at this rate, which isn't bad for a 2100kg car with over 325 HP.

[@BAC_Mono]

I’m a massive petrolhead (I’ve got a McLaren 12c, Ferrari 355, Honda NSX and BAC Mono) but my KIA EV6 GT that I’ve had for 2 years is the best overall car I’ve ever owned. It’s fast, comfortable, reliable and is genuinely huge fun to drive. Sure cost is an issue till cars like this trickle down through the second hand market, and public charging if you can’t mainly charge at home is both expensive and not plentiful enough but it’s improving rapidly. The cars are already brilliant though. Car enthusiasts have nothing to fear if they are already this good!

[@ryang6572]

I take your point but your maths are way off. At home it’s not 1p per mile - £5.45 / 300 miles = 1.81p per mile Therefore it’s not 20x more expensive vs the most expensive public - it’s 11x I appreciate it’s still a significant multiplier but accuracy matters ;-)

[@Calamancotrading]

Bit pedantic, it’s completely dependent on actual range.

[@ryang6572]

@ nope, not pedantic - his own numbers he used were wrong. The problem with many things these days is inaccurate reporting. Everyone knows they are just estimates and of course it varies but claims of being 20x more expensive is totally wrong.

[@PetrolPed]

Yeah. Not sure how I missed that rounding error. Thanks for pointing it out 👍

[@stephenholford5220]

Bought a 90000 mile Tesla model 3 performance….madly quick, looks like new inside and out and I’ve already covered 12000 miles in six months with no issues. Battery and motors still under warranty and I have no possible issues with DPF, egr valves, cam belts and clutch changes. Costs me 90P a day to commute versus £6 of diesel with the last ICE car I owned. The cost on auto trader that I payed was£16000 and the car was not a write off etc. I believe that the battery and motors will last me another 200000 miles and perhaps more. No range anxiety thanks to Teslas supercharger network which is currently free to use as we received a Tesla credit for £750 for recommending Tesla to a friend….you need to take a test drive which is free to do with Tesla…you will never look back

[@trevorcrook2565]

Very fair video. Most car buyers aren't car enthusiasts, so I think the "petrolhead" resistance to evs is relatively small. The BBC reported today that new car sales in Norway last year were 90% electric. No EV Mandate there, just consistent, long term tax benefits, big investment in charging infrastructure and no import tariffs. Back here, both my son and daughters households run evs, and they would not consider going back to combustion power.

[@luisbraz-ruivo]

I enjoy watching videos from across the pond but I really do not understand why you guys keep referring to EVs as BEVs…are there any electrical vehicles without a battery? Sounds redundant and unnecessary to me.

[@mickblizzard1408]

When EV cars were first talked about they were going to “save the planet” . Well that never happened. The main culprit (as we all know) is heavy industry, but governments across the globe seem to have conveniently stuffed that one under the carpet. The production processes in the manufacturing of EV vehicles is definitely not green even though the end product may well be classed as green. Everything is wrong, covered up or lied about. You most surely gave a fair and balanced view based on your opinion, and I thank you for that. I did not need anymore convincing of my dislike of the EV motor industry, but it’s a bit stronger now. Cheers Pete 👍

[@UnderWarranty]

Wasn't there a study that showed earths temperature has always been up and down, we are adding to it but hardly making a difference and will happen either way

[@petergilbert9066]

The planet will be fine. It's my children's lungs I'm bothered about.

[@UnderWarranty]

@@petergilbert9066 Home school them with the money you save on not buying EVs :p

[@petergilbert9066]

@UnderWarranty And the planet has always been fine 🙂 . Let's just hope HUMANS are more hardy and robust than dinosaurs. Otherwise, whatever inhabits the earth next may be running their vehicles on OUR squeezings.

[@petergilbert9066]

@UnderWarranty Or with the money I save on not buying petrol, diesel, injectors, dpf's, clutches, flywheels, egr's, intake manifolds, scr's, wet belt and timing chain failures, mechatronic units.................

[@AlistairHughes]

2 quick points: 1. BIK will rise for all vehicles, and EVs will continue to be cheaper by a huge margin. By the time EVs are paying 9%, most petrol and diesel vehicles will be paying 30%-39%. 30% makes a huge difference to affordability, and makes EVs the obvious choice for anyone with a car allowance, even after the increase. 2. Salary sacrifice is not as common as you seem to think. Employers cannot pay less than the minimum/living wage, and that will be £23,873.60 from April. If a car is available at £500/month on salary sacrifice leasing or purchase, then that means your employees need to be earning at least £30K to be allowed to take up the offer.

[@JordanNaylor]

Great video as usual Ped! Yesterday my wife and I picked up a Corsa E Ultimate. 3k miles on the clock, just over a year old, every option including the metallic red paint, for £15k. We’ve found there is a company called Tomato energy who is offering 5p per kWh overnight, with 2 other cheaper times during the day at 14p, and the remaining day still competitive at 23p. We’ve just moved from a PHEV and we’re excited to see how our EV journey goes over the next few years. Hoping to keep the Corsa for a long time!

[@PetrolPed]

£15k…wow 😮👌

[@mytefor]

@@PetrolPed But not great the the person selling it.

[@markarmstrong9550]

There are no long range EVs (600 miles for ICE). There are very expensive medium range EVs (400 miles for ICE). There kind of affordable short range EVs like the ZS EV mentioned 230 miles ish. There are affordable very short range EVs that would have to be a second car or city only car or a charge twice a day car. "You cannot drive more than 250 miles without a break", true, but with more range you can choose the route and not have it dictated by available compatible chargers and not have your destination dictated by destination chargers which can carry a significant premium. Most likely the long journey will be more stressful than other normal trips (e.g. holiday with kids in car) and the functionality, time taken and possible queuing for some chargers will not help that compared to less frequent, quicker, possibly easier ICE refills. Forget towing in any older cheaper EV. Halve the range for more expensive EVs. Petrol ped did a vid on that. WLTP is such an odd thing. Scrap it. Give us highway winter to city summer as low>high so people know what they are getting. Good things with an EV are home charging IF you can which can be very low fuel cost. Many people cannot. Winter defrosting via an app if you can is amazing. The quiet drive and torque/acceleration are great. Low servicing costs, but remember to get your charger serviced/checked, many don't. Many trade offs. Understand them, be realistic, pick your poison.

[@paulwaghorn5598]

IF every one had an electric car the country hasn"t got enough power to charge them

[@SDK2006b]

If everyone filled up their car at the same time at a fuel station, there wouldn't be enough fuel What's your point !

[@jonwragg3822]

Codswallop.

[@appkazoo5925]

This is so dull. If, by magic, everyone in the UK an electric car today then yes we wouldn't have enough infrastructure to handle it. But it's going to take probably 20-25 years to complete the process and they have organisations working on having enough infrastructure. So don't worry @paulwaghorn5598 they won't be asking you to sort it out

[@pauldavies7251]

​@@SDK2006bdont be a dickhead, Takes 2 minutes to fill a fuel tank & can travel approx 400miles, an ev takes hours to charge & only goes approximately 150 miles. Spot the difference 😂😂

[@andybrown3715]

Extremly balanced video. I use to like the voom voom noise then i grew up. Now i love peace a quite , with blistering speed if i want it.

[@terrymackenzie6784]

Im a two EV house hold with one charger and never needed to charge both cars at the same time just plan a head and even if i did just run out the granny cable 😊

[@alistermathie8485]

The depreciation is mainly caused by salary sacrifice/ business etc. if I save 40% on a new car, why would I buy a second hand one with 40% off list price, doesn’t make sense. So a contributing factor of the additional depreciation is a side effect of gov intervention. Additionally, EV makes more financial sense if you can charge at home, ergo have a house with a drive way. This limits the number of house holds and market share. At least until public charging is done on street and is cheaper than petrol/diesel etc. I would be willing to bet people who have a drive way are more likely to/ able to buy a new car, and so we have a different demographic between new and used.