Philadelphia's Regional Rail Network Evolution

[@RipCityBassWorks]

SEPTA has always fascinated me: a fully electrified and pretty extensive regional rail system compelled with a frustratingly underfunded transit agency.

[@OxnardMontalvoYT]

You can thank the State legislature being incredibly gerrymandered resulting in underrepresentation of urban voters who understand that public transportation is a valuable investment.

[@RipCityBassWorks]

@@OxnardMontalvoYT I am not very familiar with Pennsylvania's form or government, but couldn't the city or transit district raise taxes locally to fund SEPTA?

[@jongzhao4689]

SEPTA has tons of money. Please

[@ridesharegold6659]

Septa is underfunded but it's operations are also poorly managed (running duplicate services to avoid free transfers) *and* they've made some poor capital decisions over the years.

[@qjtvaddict]

The center city tunnel was based on German regional rail networks

[@MysticTransit]

Glad to see you back. I always loved to see these videos on the evolution of the different transit networks throughout North America!

[@BelugasAreCool]

Yup!

[@momentogabe]

what a coincidence! I was just in Philly for my first time ever yesterday and took both the subway & regional rail. Very interesting system!

[@yoyobass100]

As mentioned in the DC commuter rail video, MARC plans to extend to Newark station after it is reconstructed with an intermediate station at the long-closed Elkton Amtrak station for cheaper train travel to Philly and even NYC (not recommended for day trips). Also New Jersey Transit is looking into adding a West Trenton line to connect the station of its namesake for SEPTA RR service but currently lacks the funds.

[@CreightonRabs]

NJT has long explored the possibility of restoring the West Trenton branch to connect with SEPTA (this would be the former Reading Railroad's New York (Bound Brook branch) which was the routing of the Crusader line between Philadelphia and New York). It's been a similarly long rumor for a MARC/SEPTA connection in either Newark or Elkton, but that seems to be dragging forever.

[@yiannisd8286]

There has been very little talk about nj transit extending back to west Trenton in the past 15 years

[@russellgxy2905]

YES!!! Finally, a connected commuter network along the traditional Corridor. And another interstate line for MARC

[@MikyleChristian]

I know these take a lot of time a research to put together so I just wanted to say that I really enjoy these. Huge thanks man!

[@eamonmahoney9466]

From 1992 to 1993 was when the rail works project took place. It was to rebuild the viaduct and trackage past Fern Rock to Jefferson. Temple and North Broad Stations were rebuilt to what they were today. Fern Rock is what it is now, because in 1992 people riding the Lansdale/Doylestown, Warminster, and West Trenton Lines had to transfer onto the Broad Street Line to get to Center City. The fact of the diesel express service along non-electrified Conrail tracks to 30th Street Station I remember reading about. Also during Rail Works, the Chestnut Hill East, Fox Chase, and Manayunk/Norristown Lines were suspended. Once those lines reopened, Fishers station on the Chestnut Hill East Line closed. The platform and shelters still stand today but are blocked off. Norristown Transportation Center was configured and built in 1989 to incorporate the terminus of the Norristown High Speed Line with the regional rail station (formerly DeKalb Street), along with the bus loop for routes 90, 91, 93, 96, 97, 98, 99, and 131. The terminus of the NHSL was located a little further up from its current terminus.

[@Aether-222]

Can you do the rest of the network possibly? The trolley network and subway have an interesting history. Hopefully some of SEPTA's old lines come back, ik they want trains back to west Chester, and possibly out to reading should the surrounding counties select septa as the ideal candidate for that project

[@VanishingUnderground]

Coming Sunday

[@sideshowbob]

I grew up in Philly in the 60s & 70s so remember well the large cutbacks in longer distance diesel hauled services when Reading Terminal closed, such as to Reading, Bethlehem/Quakertown, & beyond West Trenton to (I think) Hoboken. "They" really need to get back onto planning to restore the Reading & Bethlehem services somehow, either using diesel shuttles or ~gasp~ electrifying the lines (yes wicked costly). Bethlehem service could hook up w/NJ Transit extension into PA via Phillipsburg to Easton to Bethlehem & Allentown. I think Amtrak included service to Reading in their strategic plans, but that should really be a "regional rail" endeavor. There are unserved major low income & dense population centers along the line (Phoenixville, Pottstown). I worked on the commuter rail system around NYC & am familiar with the systems in the northeast. SEPTA is way behind MBTA (Boston), LIRR, Metro-North, NJ Transit in many aspects of management, operations, planning, maintenance, amenities, rolling stock acquisition, etc. But they have a good system to start with. Certainly in terms of electrification. Not so much for hi level platforms. Let's hope they improve.

[@metropod]

EXO has ALP45-DPs they are not going to need anymore now that the Mount Royal tunnel is being converted to REM. If Septa bought those they’d be golden for returning service.

[@ramzanninety-five3639]

Loss of the outlaying lines is just a great shame for SEPTA. They could've had an amazing world class regional rail system, but North American transit agencies have no idea how to provide a transit service

[@metropod]

Well… SEPTA is the problem child of the bunch. They don’t call it the “Society for the Elimination of Public Transit Altogether” for nothing.

[@ramzanninety-five3639]

@@metropod conversely, they had the best starting position for any transit agency on the continent (okay subway service, trunk trolley routs, downtown regional rail tunnel and electrified regional rail network), but the results are underwhelming

[@blue9multimediagroup]

They lost PENNDOT funding so they couldn't afford to keep them open due to low ridership.

[@ramzanninety-five3639]

@@blue9multimediagroup even when they do have money, they come up with ridiculous projects like the billion dollar expansion scheme to a suburban mall. Meanwhile, they shut down an electrified West Chester Branch back when they did have funding to keep it. Again, those people have no idea how transit works

[@keystonetuscanred4921]

@@blue9multimediagroup 😔

[@yoyobass100]

You forgot to mention that Pennsauken Transit Center provides a connection to the River Line diesel light rail between Camden and Trenton. I look forward to the subway and trolley portion of SEPTA in the future, don't forget to include the PATCO train which is a counterpart to the PATH trains.

[@blue9multimediagroup]

It's only the railroads. Doesn't really go into much of the surface connections.

[@squirrelbazooka8033]

Awesome to learn about SEPTA's history, I'm excited to see its future. Great visuals, too!

[@justinhandberry145]

Yes I’ve been waiting and waiting for this and it finally happened thank you

[@matthewconley7381]

Glad to see you drop a new video, great one as always!

[@markfischer1778]

I moved from Berks County to Delaware County in June 2023. Since moving, I have taken two train trips from Wawa Station to Jefferson Station. It’s a pretty nice ride. I wish I could do it more often.

[@roberthansen2008]

I'm looking forward to when the subway video comes out. I'm glad to see this new video. Great job as always!

[@dylteejpodcasts-7412]

I've been riding the West Trenton and Trenton lines for decades. Great Video, very informative

[@GenaroJaramillo__]

Thanks!

[@Lost_Government_Clips]

Wawa station opening soon. Super excited. There is planning on going for expansion to West Chester

[@herschelwright4663]

Good to see you back!

[@terencehill2320]

Ok new topic idea, how bout the Philadelphia Subway System and the disaster it became in 1991 and 1992. 1991 where a ton of stations closed like Spring Garden and the entire Reading Terminal likes in the same time with bridge issues (more like near collapse) and the near cyanide pill they took in 2013 when they wanted to close half of the stations outright all over the place.

[@FTrainProductions]

Thank you for this video! It was worth the wait! I was wondering where the Atlantic City Line was in the other NJT Rail video and I'm glad it was mentioned.

[@chrishowell4845]

I've watched plenty of SEPTA videos, and it's amazing to me that the Cynwyd is still open, doesn't seem to be enough ridership for the line to be financially feasible

[@CM215RR]

Cynwyd is such an affluent area that you almost have to service it with regional rail service.

[@bigdaddyl-rob7445]

AWESOME video! Can't wait until you do a SEPTA Subway/El Network video! And Subway-Surface Trolleys one as well!

[@VanishingUnderground]

Coming Sunday

[@alcubierrevj]

Really nice graphics and editing!

[@urbanpreppie05]

ignoring much of the demands you’re receiving… thank you, as always for your videos. you do great work!

[@terencehill2320]

Omg you did it! Thank you!!

[@Fan652w]

Thank you for a very clear explanation!

[@rexracernj7696]

Informative! Going further back, be aware that these had been the privately-operated commuter rail services of Pennsylvania RR (out of Suburban Station) & Reading RR (out of Reading Terminal) until the SEPTA takeover. At one point, the Ivy Ridge line was PRR's line all the way to Norristown, directly competing with the Reading RR Norristown line.

[@phillipcraig2790]

It's been a while since I seen A New Underground Video It's Always Amazing 😀😎

[@marccheban194]

This is an excellent presentation!

[@RealCrimsonPeach_TSFTWDTFTL]

This was great! I've been learning about SEPTA recently, and I'm glad you made this. Can you do LIRR and Metro-North next? I would also appreciate if you did the NYC Subway as well. Anyways, thank you, and have a nice day.

[@pakboimsal8498]

He should do Chicago next then new york

[@VanishingUnderground]

Coming later this year or early next year

[@RealCrimsonPeach_TSFTWDTFTL]

@@VanishingUnderground Okay. Cool.

[@philocohen]

the wawa extension actually did end up opening in july 2022.

[@CreightonRabs]

Newark, Delaware is actually pronounced "New-ARK" instead of "NEW-irk".

[@rogerlewis196]

But it’s all one word.

[@jm-bv1wh]

Good catch on how it's pronounced.

[@VanishingUnderground]

Thanks for the clarification! I’ll keep that in mind when I update this video

[@malachimuhammad-dy2ow]

I miss the Pottsville diesel service.

[@ExpressRailfan]

​@@VanishingUndergroundI miss the Pottsville Diesel service.

[@jorgegaston5391]

You forgot one: next month, the Media-Elwyn line will be extended back to Wawa.

[@chrispontani6059]

Aww…was hoping you were going to go back to the beginning of the Pennnsylvania Railroad. 🤣

[@jimpern]

Having ridden the Airport and Elwyn (now Wawa) lines often in the past, I like what you've done here. I was living in the suburbs when the tunnel that replaced Reading Terminal was opened, and it was interesting to see how they had all the rail lines run through center city to other destinations. BTW, in Delaware, Newark is pronounced "New Ark".

[@gevans446]

WELCOME BACK TO KZbin!

[@whatsup89100]

Been awhile, great to see another video

[@Rlotpir1972]

I would to see the Norristown line extend further northwest into Reading with at least several stations reopening including Royersford and Limerick.

[@hectorreyes1934]

Welcome back! Maybe do New York City or Chicago next?

[@CTrail1711]

MNRR/LIRR/CTrail

[@hectorreyes1934]

@@CTrail1711 I think he would do LIRR before he does the nyc subway

[@CTrail1711]

@@hectorreyes1934 He said he would do it last year.

[@BelugasAreCool]

Hes back lets goooooo! Could you do Metra in chicago next?

[@matthewjunio]

We might have to add to this. Apparently, and new station just opened up on the Media/Elwyn Line. It is located in Wawa.

[@malachimuhammad-dy2ow]

Push-pull express and limited service was added to the Paoli-Thorndale, and Wilmington-Newark Lines in 1987. Using AEM-7s with comet coaches. They were first assigned for express runs on the Manayunk-Norristown, Lansdale-Doylestown, Airport, ad West Trenton. Before running on the Paoli-Thorndale, Wilmington-Newark, West Trenton, Trenton, and Media-Elwyn Lines.

[@Touchybanana]

SEPTA is also run very incompetently by the members of its board, that's why it'll never reopen discontinued lines or it takes decades to do it.

[@nihalthandi4175]

Could you do the Toronto street car system? Also glad you’re back

[@JH-pe3ro]

Would you be interested in doing bikeshare network timelapses? It's harder to get at that data, you'd probably have to ask the operators, but there is a fascinating expansion taking place before our eyes in major metros as stations pop up all over the streets, and your channel came to mind as the place to cover those changes. My local operator, Bay Wheels, is adding at a rate of two or three stations per month.

[@bonecanoe86]

As a Newtown resident it would be absolutely awesome if the Newtown line was restored; there would be plenty of riders as the region's population has exploded since 1983, and it would be a big boon for Newtown borough. Sadly, I don't think it's ever going to happen because of opposition elsewhere on the line's path. It's also fun to imagine the Norristown line going all the way to Reading as it once did, the Warminster line going all the way to New Hope once again, as well as a branch from Landsdale going up to Souderton and Perkasie, and maybe even all the way up to the Lehigh Valley where it would meet up with trains coming west from NJ Transit. Maybe some day.

[@jm-bv1wh]

A train to New Hope would be awesome! Traffic and parking during the summer and fall are terrible, and a train would solve those problems, as there's no need for a car once you're in New Hope.

[@HighIronProductions]

@@jm-bv1wh a less costly option would be to provide state funding to restore the track condition to an acceptable level for passenger service between Lahaska and Ivyland and have the NHRR run a couple of connecting shuttles with the Warminster line on seasonal weekends. Extending SEPTA to New Hope (while it would be great to see) would, unfortunately, mean that New Hope would lose one of its biggest tourism draws with the excursion train having to give up its route.

[@ptconfer]

Question for Septa fans. Does anyone know if it’s possible for Septa to run busses from outlying communities to the rail stations? Wondering about The Lehigh Valley, Reading and Pottstown. Would be a great way and possibly less expensive to link these places into the rail network.

[@SandBoxJohn]

The linage of the Philadelphia commuter rail network goes back 51 years before the takeover by SEPTA in 1983. The Pennsylvania Railroad 11KV electrification of the North East Corridor between New York and Washington DC was an expansion of the electrified Pennsylvania Railroad's Philadelphia commuter rail network.

[@blue9multimediagroup]

Terminal F wasn't a thing when the Airport Line opened. It didn't open until the 2000s.

[@mycobacteriem2540]

My one issue with regional rail service, especially living in philly proper but in a section of the city only really served by regional rail, the frequency. i feel like the RR lines, especially those that are in places like the far NE and NW of the city where they dont have access to the metro need more frequent and also final trips that will leave center city at midnight on all route. i live closest to torresdale station, and there is no truly rapid way for me to get to the city aside from regional rail and that is far from rapid coming every hour. if i wanted to go into center city using the metro id have to take an extra 20-30min bus ride to the metro terminal further down at Frankford and connect there. it just turns travel into more of a hassle when even 30min RR service would fix things quite a bit

[@sgtdebones]

Nice, finally another ep

[@Cartbs229]

I think an Amtrak network evolution would be great

[@jimmeade2976]

I'm confused. Your description shows the Atlantic City line terminating at 30th St Station, but the SEPTA map at 10:52 shows it ending at 15th/16th Street.

[@VanishingUnderground]

That was the PATCO speed line, not the Atlantic city. Unfortunately they don’t produce an official map with both the Atlantic City line & SEPTA commuter rail on it, so I had to settle for that one.

[@theautistictransitfan]

HES BACK YOOO

[@TrainSounds]

Thank you! By the way can’t wait for the subway to be included.

[@VanishingUnderground]

Coming Sunday

[@brandonabc2022]

It’s sad. There used to be so many more stations😕

[@blackpanda7298]

Amazing network Toronto needs to learn from Philly

[@chasechristophermurraydola9314]

Can you do a video on the Gettysburg and Harrisburg railroad and I am asking because there was a branch of the railroad called the round top branch and I found out that one of my ancestors lost his sight when the road bed for the round top branch was being built.

[@johnwalker3167]

Can’t find the video about the Philadelphia subway and light rail system that was mentioned

[@VanishingUnderground]

Coming Sunday!

[@jdomz]

When are you going a video on the CTA?

[@VanishingUnderground]

Coming later this year

[@jdomz]

@@VanishingUnderground looking fwd to it

[@malachimuhammad-dy2ow]

@Vanshing Underground In think I wanna provide footage of 4 trains on the Norristown Line. The 3 trains were local services, and one was an express.

[@malachimuhammad-dy2ow]

Push-pull trains run express and limited services on the Paoli-Thorndale, and Wilmington-Newark Lines. And they run express on the West Trenton, Trenton, and Media-Elwyn Lines.

[@kennethrembert7925]

In your next video, can you do the Long Island Railroad and Metro-North Railroad, here in New York City, please?

[@jonathanstensberg]

Okay, but starting in 1983 skips almost all of the interesting things about Philly’s Regional Rail…

[@VanishingUnderground]

I usually only profile the commuter rail networks while they’re publicly owned because it’s difficult to track down timetables and information before that date. The private companies that used to run the lines weren’t nearly as diligent at publishing changes and keeping archives of timetables

[@brendanu1680]

Can You Do Nashville And/Or Detroit After Philly's Subway And Trolley Network?

[@QuarioQuario54321]

They got nothing to talk both

[@brendanu1680]

@@QuarioQuario54321 Shut Up.

[@mrjsanchez1]

The extension to WAWA, PA should open later in August. It should have very good ridership at this new station.

[@malachimuhammad-dy2ow]

It has already opened in 2022.

[@russellmercatanti156]

There is an error with your map, specifically the Doylestown line. The Doylestown/R5 line does not go west as far as you have it depicted. By your map it looks like Doylestown is close to the Schuylkill River when it should really be over closer to Warminster or the Yardley Station on the West Trenton line. It should look more like the map you show at the end of the video.

[@DBSGEEK]

Well the map isnt to scale. It is the closest representation of what the commuter map looks like with all the lines.

[@VanishingUnderground]

I had to distort the map to fit on a landscape screen & keep the font a readable size. I did my best to maintain geographical accuracy but had to make some alterations, such as the one you pointed out

[@blue9multimediagroup]

The Atlantic City Line is NEW JERSEY TRANSIT and should be noted as such. It is not part of the SEPTA system like the other 13 lines you mentioned. If you include it, you must then also include AMTRAK as well as the NJT Northeast Corridor Line (which connects to SEPTA at Trenton).

[@ridesharegold6659]

He did say it was NJT and it's regional rail. Not intercity.

[@blue9multimediagroup]

@@ridesharegold6659 Regional Rail in SEPTA terminology refers to the commuter rail network as that's the brand name for the service. NJT is not apart of that at all.

[@erictrumpler9652]

My parents lived in Bensalem on the Trenton line for years, and I always thought it a shame that SEPTA and NJT couldn't cooperate better on the Northeast corridor service, with some kind of through ticketing and possibly running some kind of express services stopping at roughly every 5th station all the way from philly to nyc. I realize that Amtrak does that, but comparatively too expensive, too infrequent, too few stops, and little or no coordination with local service.

[@maas1208]

When will you do the Chicago video pls respond

[@VanishingUnderground]

Coming later this year

[@maas1208]

@@VanishingUnderground ok sorry for bugging you I just wanted to know because I live Chicago and would like my city to be represented that's all

[@terencehill2320]

Sadly the Wawa Train Station will not open on time and will now open August 21, 2022. You heard it here first.

[@wackarnolds114]

Delaware needs another infill station in Newport and Bellevue along with increased service between Newark and Claymont.

[@thefareplayer2254]

“Grow” is a strong word for it.

[@MrJamieBattle]

Guess who’s back, back again 🎶

[@zarathustra7974]

Video starts in 1983 with a web of rail lines, how did those lines come to be?

[@malachimuhammad-dy2ow]

Now, I filmed 2 outbound local trains, one inbound local train, and one outbound express on the Norristown Line.

[@patrickx5527]

as a septa person i like the lines mostly trenton and west mostly west trenton cause i take it to go to the cemetery monday i’ll be going on the doyalstown line monday warminster is ok but like the west trenton line i’m looking forward on the rumored double decker trains being made hopefully they’ll be in the trenton west trenton lines

[@benjaminfriedman9107]

Cynwyd line closed for a few months at 2013-2014 but was brought back due to people petitioning for it

[@1kCam05]

Zach,when is the next video?!

[@VanishingUnderground]

I’m entering the final stages of production for the Philadelphia subway video, so it should be out within the next 1-3 weeks.

[@caesarofmemes]

You should do NYC’s Subway or Commuter Rail next

[@zcp9668]

Next can you pls do evolution of MetroNorth or LIRR

[@nyrmetros]

Yes this would be a great video! Lots of historical content!

[@robotx9285]

The lirr is definitely gonna be more complex video. Given, that it's technically the same entity which was established in 1834.

[@shamarmays3577]

Hey current born and raised Philadelphian currently here now our septa map looks WAY DIFFERENT NOW

[@t-his5866]

Can u also do a metro evolution of a network in Europe?

[@alexharris2495]

Been a fat minute.

[@vxcent9752]

When can Frankford, and Frankford Junction Stations be brought back?

[@malachimuhammad76]

On the Trenton Line, when?

[@pakboimsal8498]

Are you going to do Chicago after Philadelphia right?

[@VanishingUnderground]

Yep that’s the plan! I’ve started researching both, as well as design maps for them

[@pakboimsal8498]

@@VanishingUnderground Yes!!!

[@NJT4211]

That's nice! but it would have been cooler if you added the BSL/MFL/River Line/PATCO/Rt 100 NHSL and the City/Suburban trolleys to this

[@VanishingUnderground]

They’re coming in a separate video this Sunday

[@NJT4211]

@@VanishingUnderground Ohh ok cool you should also check out my channel! I have videos coming up that I'm currently working on

[@QuarioQuario54321]

Finally! Subway soon? After this Chicago?

[@Transit_NYC]

I Love Philly But when you doing meta next?

[@kevinhoward9593]

Actually Conrail only ran the West Trenton line. Also the rail lines were there long before SEPTA was a thing. 1:22 that's not true either. SEPTA had service to as far as Bethlehem.

[@vxcent9752]

When can the Fox-Chase-Newtown Diesel Line be brought back.

[@Poisson4147]

Probably never. SEPTA is dead-set against any trains that don't come with pantographs. They're even resistant to dual-modes.

[@malachimuhammad76]

I hope the Newton Shuttle can be bought back.

[@malachimuhammad76]

So don't say those words, that'll make me angry.

[@NelvanaFan1971]

Wow THX

[@Transit_NYC]

When you Do Mta Next

[@malachimuhammad76]

@Vanishing Underground I wish the West Chester and Newtown Shuttles return.

[@malachimuhammad76]

I wish Frankford Junction station can return.

[@Conellossus]

Finally!!

[@sebi01200]

Do an LIRR or Metro-North Video!

[@VanishingUnderground]

It’s on my list! Hopefully this year or early next year

[@MoskitoGirl]

Why did SEPTA discontinue the R rating

[@BigBlueMan118]

What the hell could have made them stop the proper through-running of service? That seems nuts.

[@StefanLopuszanski]

I would love a train board game based on SEPTA. As much as I hate SEPTA it is all we have. They could manage it so much better but oh well.