Phoenix Program | CIA at Work in Vietnam (Marine Reacts)

[@go_topspeed]

vietnam was a CIA, KGB playground. I feel like both powers wanted an arena to prove to each other what they were capable of.

[@swatteam2002]

vietnam war is unfaded scar

[@effewe2]

True and they also used Africa, Central America and South America to play!

[@joeswansonthesimphunter2612]

@@swatteam2002 i personally knew a vietnam vet, and even over 50 years later they're still traumatized

[@1minotm1]

ok but who killed 3 millions vietnamese and dropped millions of tones of orange agent , closter bombs , executed innocent civilians , bombarded Cambodia and Laos and sent to be killed 85k young americans ??? war is business

[@joeswansonthesimphunter2612]

@@1minotm1 oh you don't even know the correct stats. Around 2 million died and almost a million of them were NVA/Vietcong. Also only 58k Americans died, not 85k. And the rest that died were civilians

[@reubenbunter143]

It was nicer having the camera in the top left where he doesn’t have to do such a dramatic turn every time he wants to talk to us, nice improvement

[@hobb4454]

i thought youtube had changed their fair use policy.

[@reubenbunter143]

maximations huh?

[@JamesonsTravels]

no. its a nightmare on this stuff. no consistent policy and almost all like this get demonetized.

[@fuxzor]

@@JamesonsTravels from my understanding anything to do with guns or the military will get demonetized in a heartbeat. a KZbinr called Matsimus has talked about it in the past.

[@jefffranklin4894]

@@JamesonsTravels guessing that's what the amazon affiliation is for then?

[@khatack]

If you treat your POWs well, and the enemy knows that, then their troops are more likely to surrender rather than fight.

[@aidancallahan6271]

Are you trying to say that the US treats their POW's "well"?

[@khatack]

@@aidancallahan6271 And what exactly are you trying to say?

[@aidancallahan6271]

@@khatack The US does not treat their POW's well. LMAO

[@edenartgardenamusementmuse7253]

@@aidancallahan6271 He's saying there would be less Terrorists if we weren't torturing innocent people.

[@georgemcbride5991]

My thoughts exactly

[@jeffherdzina6716]

" Only the dead have seen the end of war. " Plato.

[@randypleva2397]

Amen

[@CrotchetRocket]

“COD”

[@TheArtGearGuide]

My god that is so true, those of us who come home relive it every single day.

[@jeffherdzina6716]

@@TheArtGearGuide Thank you for your service.

[@bjornodinsson27]

Norse warriors : *Laughs in Valhalla* lol

[@artpeasant3517]

When enemy torture your soldiers, its a war crime. If you torture enemy soldiers its "interrogation".

[@natesnyder5901]

As and American i can tell you that uh fuck yooooo FEEELINGS we getting that info

[@artpeasant3517]

@@natesnyder5901 You just made your statement based on your own feelings being American 😂😂😂 You should replace your frustrations with some objectivity dude.

[@natesnyder5901]

art peasant I’m just playing 🤣I love jokes like that that dark humor be uplifting

[@artpeasant3517]

@@natesnyder5901 oh ok 👍

[@alwaysarmed88]

BS. Idk where the hell you've heard that from... That's the other way around... We even had to stop "waterboarding" BS

[@markperkovich992]

My dad was a WW2 vet..thru the pacific all the way to Japan. The only advice he gave when I signed up in 85 was "don't volunteer for anything "

[@flybobbie1449]

The best system was the Brits housing high ranking Germans in a stately home, giving them comforts and they squawked like parrots and it was all recorded.

[@tSp289]

They did the same back, especially the Luftwaffe. One Luftwaffe officer used to treat his prisoners well, share brandy and cigarettes with them, tell stories and walk in the woods, having long chats about all kinds of things. With their guard down, the airmen told him all kinds of things they shouldn't have e.g. when allied tracers went from red to green, it was because they were nearly out of ammo. Useful information if you're in a dogfight. Seems implausible that being nice is the best method, but this guy (Hans Scharff) was the most successful interrogator for the German side, despite all the complete bastards they had using other methods.

[@flybobbie1449]

@@tSp289 I believe only Germans used tracers. I know a fellow flight instructor that was a Battle of Britain pilot, said you knew German on your tail, the tracer bullets.

[@tSp289]

@@flybobbie1449 Nah. Germans used distinctive green phosphorescent tracers, and more of them. Allies used strontium-based red tracers. I mis-remembered the tracers changing colour, it was just that the last few rounds were all tracers rather than widely spaced out among 'normal' bullets and shells.

[@jamiehatfield7392]

That’s what has always worked for me. Just be nice and friendly, get them to lower their defenses and then just let them talk. It’s surprising how well that works, yet some people still insist on torture. The people who would be serial kills under any other circumstances.

[@LonersGuide]

The Germans had similar programs.

[@zeldamage001]

If you're the invading country, it's your choice. If you sign up for the military, it's your choice. If you're a civilian in an invaded country, not so much.

[@erica8332]

Soildets from both sides were conscripted secondly One could argue civilians voted for their governments which wanted war

[@montneymon-ta-knee6810]

they only wanted to live free every time one oppressor would leave another was there to take it place

[@m.infernal]

not in the case of a draft. you are forced to do it. Both the invaded citizens and those invading are innocent and doing what they were told by their governments.

[@captainsafety88]

If you are completely hollow and fall for the bullshit that the military represents a future for you, then you either had no choice because you came from the ghettos, or you come from a brainwashed family which eats everything from the syfilitic hand of the government.

[@Hawksrule]

@@captainsafety88 so free college, an extremely competitive retirement plan, free job training, guaranteed job experience, free health care, free insurance, free housing, and much much more isn’t worth anything?

[@jmsmeier1113]

It’s good that war is so terrible, less we grow to fond of it. ‘ Robert E. Lee.

[@tSp289]

0:36 There was no torture involved in the Anglo-Zanzibar war of 1896. That is because the war lasted for 38 minutes.

[@Bryce_C.]

The torture could of taken place after those 38 minutes

[@michaelmckinnon1591]

Maybe that's the reason it only lasted 38 minutes because torture was used.

[@tSp289]

@@michaelmckinnon1591 No, the reason was because the Brits shelled the crap out of the other guy until he changed his mind about having a war.

[@rithvikmuthyalapati9754]

@@michaelmckinnon1591 No. The guy who declared war on Britain crapped his pants and decided to end it. It is pretty hilarious.

[@jack6539]

Best advice I ever recieved many decades ago. "remember you will need to live with every decision you ever made". Its not what other people think of your actions - its what you end up thinking of it as you grow and mature.

[@nightrider1850]

You fight to win, period. You do what ever you need to do to win. I can live with everything I've done to win because I did it for you and every other American. I've never done anything I'm ashamed of because winning is nothing to be ashamed of. War isn't a Golf game. If you can't get your mind around this, then your the one that feels shame and can't sleep over it. Good luck with that.

[@jack6539]

@@nightrider1850 its true that during wartime, men are required to do things that most people could never understand or even really appreciate as wars are the ultimate competition and the stakes are at a level which are excessive. Provided the competitiveness is directed at completing a mission, its purpose was valid and was not directed at dragging colleagues down to fulfil your own ego, then I don't see where the argument is. If, however a persons ego drives them to cross lines which would bring shame to their unit or country, compromised the work of colleagues then that would be something which might cause some issues down the line. Its often the win at all costs mentality that drives some of the worst excesses in history - sometimes through desperation, but other times through the exploitation of peoples' competitive drive.

[@daysjours]

@@nightrider1850 IF there is a god I do not think He/She will think much of your ¨winning¨ thing. The killing thing will be what He/She will focus on.

[@MrChrisdixon1]

So true. Take ownership of everything you do. A lot of people don't.

[@DavidLouisLouis-qh9ni]

@@ajitadonismanilal9105 David Staudohar USMC USN SS USCG ret including Delta special Forces and the Lancers Air tactical command 🦅 🌍⚓ TAd to MAC 5 🇺🇸🙏🇺🇸

[@napoleonsmith3028]

Okay, torturing innocent civilians is not “warfare”. - it’s wrong. Plain and simple. End of discussion.

[@JamesonsTravels]

Hard part is what changes person from a civilian to a combatant.

[@starchild3215]

Agreed.

[@prajnesharajnarayansingh9121]

@@JamesonsTravels Electric shocking nipples and removing nails, is not justified in warfare let alone be tried on civilians. Reason why USA lost because somewhere in the war they lost the purpose, the vision and somewhat sanity and humanity.

[@houseofhas9355]

Yeah The line is Human rights, the line is how will you live with your self. And the line is this an enemy or civilian. If then the line is are there other methods. which is yes so many more methods. They will tell you anything to stop the pain, doesn’t mean its the truth or what you want. It doesn’t work, its sadism ever the person in charge tilts to enjoying the sadistic hedonistic abuse. Life is not a movie.

[@Buttercup-vw2zo]

I would rather be a civilian and keep my moral compass and yes I kmow ..you soldiers think civilians and cowards are coward and.weak but there is more than one way to have courage. My best friend is a firefighter. I redpect him along with paramedics but I respect a lot of soldiers.🤗🤗🤗

[@jaypoole8056]

"It's always funny how people get a conscience after they're done. So when they can't get burned, they get holier than thou." Amen brother!

[@olliephelan]

Would you prefer if the DID NOT get a conscience ?

[@jaypoole8056]

@@olliephelan No, but you're no hero for developing a conscience after the evil deed is done and you have no fears of facing any repercussions for your actions.

[@olliephelan]

@@jaypoole8056 You dont think its OK for an elderly man to look back to when he was a kid ripping people in half with an MG for reasons he didnt understand ? ( theres more than one reason why they recruit 18 year olds - impressionable children) Robert MacNmara , The USAs most experienced strategic bombing expert , said (quote) "We were war criminals.If wed lost wed have been hung as war criminals" He oversaw the burning of 100,000 men women and children in one single night. Only a psychopath would look back and that and feel good.

[@jaypoole8056]

@@olliephelan You clearly are not comprehending what I am saying. I'll make it easy for you, who is the better man in face of a serious crime: A) The guy who confesses to the crime during the statue of limitations knowing full well he will be prosecuted and is prepared for it to make amends? OR B) The guy who confesses to the crime after the statue of limitations is up and he is free to talk about it, knowing full well he will never have to face punishment.

[@jaypoole8056]

@Sentient.Observer It's called an analogy. And as I have said it's good that they are talking now, but again that doesn't make them a hero and I'm sure all those people who were being tortured would have really appreciated it if these men had began questioning the morality of their actions a little sooner.

[@rustsalya]

Respectfully disagree: hanging someone to the ceiling with the arms tied behind the back is not warfare. 50 cal killing an enemy is. Whatever can be seen as a part of combat can pass the test of warfare in my eyes. If one caught an enemy combatant on the battlefield and is interrogating him in order to find out the enemy immediate plans MIGHT be a part of warfare. But taking a prisoner to a secured location, bringing a phone magneto, connecting it to his body parts and torturing him for hours, days and months - nothing can be farther from warfare than that.

[@lgbonfim]

Some people need to lie to themselves in order to sleep at night!

[@theamericanviking1835]

@@lgbonfim 😂

[@theamericanviking1835]

I appreciate that view but no, don't go to war if you only want to be shot. Expect bad shit to happen when you go to another country to fight.

[@lgbonfim]

For sure bad things happens when you go to war but the mass murder of civilians that american soldiers made in Vietnam is just a horrible crime!

[@hanskuijsten2380]

And it has been known for ages now that confessions under torture are usually worthless. People will say and confess anything and everything to get rid of pain. It didn't work when Philippe Le Bel had the knights Templar tortured, it didn't work in Vietnam and it doesn't in Guantanamo.

[@alexanderdimitrov6916]

Guy in the chat. You can't say "There is no fine line at war" and then ask "What happened to honor?" Honor goes out of the window the moment you begin to torture,murder and treat civilians like dogs.

[@non9886]

there is at least one thick line: you shouldn't engage civilians, especially women and children. but cia does this preferably. reason is not to gain some intel but others...

[@bobbys4327]

@@non9886 yeah, right. Women and children have been used to blow up people.

[@GhostfaceJDM]

The kids part yea. The women part me... We all should be equally. Men and Women deserve the same.

[@claytonjean6385]

@Ajit Adonis Manilal and what does that have to do with torture?

[@pierregevelle4873]

When you are ready to make potential innocents die horribly for your own success, maybe you shouldn't be surprised that hate comes knocking on your front door.

[@humadamin504]

I love this comment

[@michaelworm154]

No but evil was already there. Many US soldiers have been tortured to death by the VC way before those camps were made, so "evil" just came to the VC.

[@patricksalish]

Michael Worm what evil? The French or the Chinese ? The Vietminh smoked everyone - as soon as the America coalition left the Chinese came in again and got smacked right out

[@michaelworm154]

@@patricksalish was talking about torture between VC and US. Just between those

[@richardduplessis1090]

Americans aren't very good at putting themselves in other people's shoes, and they'd have a very different perspective if they were under a brutal military occupation. The Vietnames didn't 'choose war' with America: it was the other way around.

[@cutchdoggw1776]

Went to San Francisco with my Uncle “a Vietnam vet” he kept saying “ I can’t believe that I am that bad of a shot” lol.

[@returntonature8773]

Can't trust any info given under torture, eventually people will tell you what you want to hear. Torturing lower rank people is useless, they usually don't know enough to help you.

[@JamesonsTravels]

Understand. Remember the torture was done by the S Vietnamese against the North. We paid but did not do it directly.

[@uteriel282]

@Quarantine by the sea torture was used as a means to get testamonies regardless of their validity. at that thime the churches authority was declining so they put some fear into the people to keep them in line. it was all just a power play. and the same is still going on today as the so called "enhanced interrogation"

[@uteriel282]

@Quarantine by the sea thats because torture was never meant to be used for information gathering. it has always been a tool to inflict torment untill death. its the perfect tool to make crinimals suffer in agony untill they die which is what it was used for in medieval times. but some idiots seem to think that its some miracle method that lets you gain reliable infos while putting in minimal risk and effort.

[@chloewinkworthartist]

what about torture as a way to mess with prisoners as a means to find the rats in the ranks?lol...thats a great tactic

[@marcblank3036]

Torture can also be used as a way to terrorize and punish. in that respect Phoenix was quite effective. The Viets still feel horrible about the programme. Communist doctrine works the same when undermining and destabilizing a nation

[@VERTICALWisdom]

Served in Vietnam as a LRRP in ARMY, war is never pretty and when you need information to get your brothers back there is no line.... certainly no fine line. You fight to get home no matter what the cost.

[@JamesonsTravels]

100%.

[@randypleva2397]

Believe me it was equal or worst on the other side.

[@peppermintcatsass3141]

100% truth!

[@anarchistcocktail3455]

My family had a close friend who was in the Phoenix program and latter plan f6, he was an official in the east asia division from what he said it wasnt warfare, it was sadism, torment and torture used with no ends to the means

[@martinaasandersen3775]

Torture doesn't work as credible information gathering!!!!!! Has been clearly shown countless times like in Gitmo.

[@jacobjohnson6766]

With all due respect i've travelled all parts of Vietnam. The Vietnamese do NOT hate americans. They have a very very young population that have been westernized and hold 0 grudge. Not saying there aren't any that hold a grudge but it's in my experience the vast majority of Vietnamese are very respectful towards Americans. I met my wife while travelling the country and even I was surprised at the lack of anger towards us. Just my experience.

[@warmongerairsoft]

They won after all. What’s there to be bitter about 💀💀

[@antvn222]

@@warmongerairsoft youre still missing the point kid

[@apprenticehunter]

"He, who fights agaist monsters, must take care not to became a monster himself." This concept is still very valid today and this draws the fine line you are looking for.

[@jdenmark1287]

The fine line is that war is monstrous. The point is you try to only be that way to those that are being that way too. When two people are two or more groups of people refuse to agree to disagree, you have war, and at that point, the only thing that matters is who wins. If you use overwhelming force and martial law, innocent people are going to get hurt, maimed and killed. If you pussyfoot around and try to win hearts and minds, you create a situation for civil war and sectarian violence to thrive and even more innocent people get hurt , maimed and killed. I think its best to avoid it, but if it has to happen do it with overwhelming force and win, then try to rebuild under martial law.

[@American-Dragon]

No quarter

[@NikeZ-mr727]

Somebody's been playing too much of the Witcher lol

[@lifeisa.smalllesson333]

Good one. I also like the one about, being a hero long enough that you become the villain"!

[@mariosmatzoros3553]

@@NikeZ-mr727 It's a quote by Nietzsche...

[@timmoore3770]

My only question would be what about those that didn’t choose to go to war but rather by misfortune lived in Vietnam? I think you raise a good point about soldiers in war, but you shouldn’t torture civilians to try and get info out of them

[@Kuba-fn8wy]

The problem is that civilians helped their people, after one of their family got kill or locked down or torture then the whole family starts to hate Americans and they all turn to North side in a snap... that was the problem of vietnam and civilian torture

[@allanle3125]

@nobl3savag3 You should, and you should have won, now Vietnam is f'ing find shithole.

[@chrisodriscoll3077]

@@Kuba-fn8wy No the problem is many civilians were in between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they lived in fear of the Vietcong who harassed them to use their villages as safe havens , arsenals or to gather intelligence . On the other hand they were in fear of the Americans & South Viet Army who would have identified them as collaborators or enemy combatants. At the end of the day these were regular people trying to get through the day , feed their families and mind their own business. They didn't start the war or even want it, but by God did they suffer the consequences of it. The N.V.A , Vietcong, US Military and South Viet Military all behaved like scum in that war . Fuck them.

[@Kuba-fn8wy]

@@chrisodriscoll3077 they simply had no choice

[@shAmbuO668]

Chris O'Driscoll Kind of like some current countries now with drug trafficking organizations running shit. Forcing good folks to support and collaborate and then they get busted and ruin their lives by government prosecution. Mundo feo, amigo.

[@SugaryPhoenixxx]

I would love more videos on the Vietnam war form your perspective, as well as the CIA & other 3 letter agencies. Both are of great interest to me, & I enjoy hearing your opinions.

[@nicktombs1876]

The " line" as you call it is set out in the Geneva Convention for military personnel, it does not give anyone the right to abuse civilians, I would say ask the Nazi leadership but the allies including America hung them all for war crimes for doing the exact same things as the Americans were doing here..

[@costakeith9048]

They were hanged for losing, vae victis.

[@leopardcentury4079]

Yep not even mentioning the war crimes of the allies

[@nicktombs1876]

@@leopardcentury4079 go on then shit for brains, list them.

[@kawaiimapleleaf]

America is so arrogant that they think they can do nothing wrong

[@costakeith9048]

@@kawaiimapleleaf Because haven't been conquered, if you want to impose penalties or rules on a nation, you must first conquer and subdue them. Some people seem to think we should just voluntarily submit to these rules, which is absurd.

[@AindriuMacGiollaEoin]

I travelled to Vietnam, seen the Vietnam/American war history, the French used to bring the guillotine around Vietnam, some awful things happened

[@AudieHolland]

The guillotine was just an instrument to kill people. It was last used in France in 1977. The death penalty in France was abolished in 1981. Would you think an electric chair would have been less inhumane? People die horribly and painfully over a period time long enough to boil their internal organs and burn their skin. Spain used the garotte untill 1974. It was a stationary instrument but the method was the same as with the portable pianowire version. I have read that during lethal injection executions, sometimes they 'forget' to add the anesthetic part but do administer the muscle relaxant part. So the condemned person chokes to death because his lungs stop working but he will experience it fully.

[@TheReasonableLiberal-hn2rs]

@Space Dandy Most of our people are Buddhist so no shit it's mostly left wing media. Buddhism is a very left religion you dip stick.

[@TheReasonableLiberal-hn2rs]

@fsdeesffds werew As a fellow Vietnamese I say this with respect. Calm down brother.

[@ifalone]

@fsdeesffds werew technically your country lost, but also won; we whooped your ass in casualties

[@ifalone]

@fsdeesffds werew ok

[@mrfixitusa6165]

You asked our opinion about the Geneva convention, and the policy of "you can bomb them shoot them, but once you capture them, you have to take care of them." It makes sense to me. It's similar to the laws of self-defense. As long as the person is still a threat and capable of causing harm or death then your job is to stop them. When someone is actively trying to kill you, stopping them usually does require Force that could prove lethal. BUT, once the threat is stopped, and secured, they are no longer fighting or trying to harm anyone, the use of lethal Force should also stop. If it's a one-on-one situation you can pretty much guarantee that the attacker chose to do it. But in a war situation it's well known that not only are people sometimes drafted, but sometimes in some countries they are literally forced into the military and forced to fight, and refusal could mean their death and possibly the death of their family. That's one reason why there's been multiple cases of enemy combatants surrendering in Mass to US troops, because they didn't want to fight them in the first place. Sometimes they were actually relieved to surrender, because that finally meant a way out. So especially because of situations like that that rule of the Geneva convention makes sense. As long as the enemy is fighting you you do whatever you can to stop them. Once they start fighting you've captured them they're under your control it's inhumane to continue causing harm. I would argue that it's also inhumane to just ignore them and let them die of their wounds, but I do think that our own soldiers should have priority when it comes to medical care. The additional reason I support it, it's because if you saved the enemy's life and treated them well they are far more likely to cooperate and that could be a good source of information intelligence and help you win the war. All one has to do is look at North Korean soldiers who have been able to cross the border and escape into South Korea. They were captured at first but the more time they spent learning the truth about South Korea and America, they realized that they got better treatment as a prisoner, than they got as citizens and soldiers in their own country. A lot of them turned out to be strong supporters of the United States and they joined the South Korean military. If lethal force is continued AFTER a prisoner of war is taken, you'd never get any of that AND you'd be a brutal inhumane beast. So once an enemy combatant has become a prisoner of war and is no longer a threat, it makes sense to give them medical Care. It's the humane thing to do, it's the right thing to do, and I firmly believe it would be wrong not to, if the captors had the opportunity to safely do so. Now is there captured and still fighting still trying to do everything they can to be a threat, then the threat isn't totally gone. In that case, it would be foolish or downright stupid to try to give them medical care, if they're actively trying to kill you the whole time.

[@EYDuff]

How about don't invade a country on false pretences, whether you're "serious about it" or not? There's a start.

[@davidvestring1072]

EXACTLY!!!

[@guatanamabuddha754]

Exactly, just like hiroshima

[@EMAR0933]

@@guatanamabuddha754 how does Hiroshima relate to the torture and assassinations associated with the Phoenix program? Seriously, I want to see this "connection."

[@guatanamabuddha754]

@@EMAR0933 my bad this is the wrong thread

[@khaipham6776]

America government love to invade other country and act like they’re the hero lol

[@TheQrow88]

"Brutal Torture were an everyday feature of the war" Ah yes I too remember all those brave men Captured by the Emus during that horrible war in Australia

[@orlock20]

Who do you think keep mentioning it decades after the fact? Emus have one of the best propaganda systems in the world. Internet troll is just a code phrase for emu.

[@mattburnett4185]

The Emu Wars are a dark period of our history talons like a damn Velociraptor I tell you

[@antoinelachapelle3405]

*flashbacks of emu hordes charging, withstanding direct machinegun fire*

[@unlikelyspore1406]

That's a lie, Emus take no prisoners.

[@FlyingProbe]

I just wanted to put out that most Emus were not fond of the persisting ideology at the time! Most Emus were fighting for survival! Also- we have to count in the political officers within the Emu army who shot fleeing Emu on sight. Sure, some of them overstepped a moral threshold but on the other hand there is no Emu family that did not lose at least one egg! So I guess most of the roughness can be explained by that..

[@johnathonmullis4234]

Less than a year after this video we abandoned our friends in Afghanistan. I guess leadership learned it was easier than doing what is right by the people who helped us.

[@JeannieTarantola-r2k]

Don't be so nieve people get left behind. That's the way it is at minimum 20 percent of casualties are from friendly fire. Getting information from someone you believe has it under the stress of combat you are going to stop at nothing to get what you need. The only way out of the madness of war. Is don't get into them.

[@jemjam67]

When i came home from the Vietnam war, i talked to some WW2 veterans, they told me that Vietnam war wasn't a war, it was just a police action. So i respectively replied, then next time send the police.

[@Mike-LitorisSoBig]

Yeah, generally soldiers are stupid pawns for the rich and powerful.

[@TheDude68305]

Gunny, think about one thing, . . . If that guy had grown a pair and wanted to be a whistleblower against the CIA while he was still in Vietnam he most likely would have disappeared and never been seen again think about that.

[@tomhayes2490]

The agent at 9:20 was CIA Director William Colby who "mysteriously" died in a canoe accident.

[@Photojouralist123]

Colby and my father went to school together and worked in nam later

[@jonm8513]

Yes, after he got involved with John DeCamp's investigation of the Boy's Town fiasco.

[@matthewl1726]

why do some people want to take this video down? i respect this man for his differing point of view. its always better to be honest with one's self than virtue signaling.

[@nlforces2079]

I don't think a 'fine line' or 'rules of engagement' has a place in war, but once enemies are no longer a threat they should be treated with respect, and should not suffer unnessecarily

[@TM-bn8pv]

RESPECT? RESPECT FOR WANTING, TRYING, AND POSSIBLY KILLING MY BROTHERS? No, you'll get "fair treatment " but not my respect.

[@hanskuijsten2380]

Geneva convention, anyone?

[@hanskuijsten2380]

@Anzu Wyliei True. Shamefull, but true.

[@Siddich]

Hans Kuijsten modern states should finally start punishing ppl who violated those conventions, yes, Mr Bush and Mr Blair, you have been naughty naughty boys and you should sit in prison cells for that...

[@hanskuijsten2380]

@@acmh2023 Oh shut up, you imbicile. You wouldn't recognize a communist if he kicked you square in your ballls.

[@Stormcloakvictory]

Hehe, well yesterday here in my country (Holland) they (SWAT) found shipping containers in a barn set up as torture rooms with old dentist chairs in the middle with straps, various tools to "work" with and some filled with stolen police uniforms. This shit happens in peaceful times so ofc it's gonna happen in wars.

[@JamesonsTravels]

Wow. Sickening. Criminals or govt?

[@Stormcloakvictory]

@@JamesonsTravels the media and police say criminal, and it looks like it. They arrested a 40 year old out of about, 5-6 suspects.

[@paulwilliammackin8906]

Yeah I've heard of that and seen the video it was supposedly organised crime its a shame that what has got the world since ww2 until now is drugs that is funneled through government agencies drugs is killing are old killing are people in there 30s and 40s and trying to get to are children just ask yourself if that was heading towards your child or children what would you do il kill for mine don't be offering my child drugs because it will be off with your head crookid ass government getting pay offs some were along the line

[@chadhines5804]

We shouldn’t been in Vietnam to begin with wasn’t our war

[@johnnygooch8361]

On this topic I completely disagree with Jameson. Essentially he is arguing that a declaration of war gives all belligerents free range to disregard any form of human compassion, mercy and morality. Is torturing a surrendered ISIS fighter crossing the line? Well, I'll answer it like this, if we wish to be the "good guys" then yes. If you want to saw their heads off after capture, we are them, no better, no worse, just two rival Chimp unit groups murdering and pillaging for no reason. I like to think we've evolved past that.

[@jerseykrenz337]

Alas we have not. I believe in ROEs and the principles and standards set forth by the Geneva Convention but in terms of ISIS they did not act like ordinary soldiers. The people sometimes dont point em out or give em up..to end a war quickly, sometimes sheep have to be slaughtered to find the wolf in sheeps clothing. Also ISIS offered no form of decent treatment to any Americans or other foreigners captured..why their heads weren't piked and lined up as a reminder to the world to not oppress, is beyond me.

[@ZhangLee.]

he not arguing it just simple reality , how the soldiers emotion or compassion he may feel didn`t change the fact that he had done some horrible thing

[@macattackmicmac]

I think the question is if you fight a war to win, or if you fight a war because it's right. You can argue that no war is right, but the motivation for most recent military action has been because it is 'right'. At the end of the day you can't fight a war as the good guys and torture, being the good guys is hard, but being the bad guys means you're going to be fighting for a long time. The other question is about torturing is also dependent about who you torture, torture a soldier is at best a grey area, but you can't justifiably torture civilians. I know war is messy and brutal and I'm not debating that, but if politicians etc are going to use the arguments of it being the right thing to do, then you have to expect a backlash against it when it doesn't turn out that way. It should then in a responsible society fall on those that lied to take then fall, and the fall should be from the top down. At the end of the day that never happens and it's always the guys at the bottom who get fed to the wolves.

[@Walmart_Joji]

There is no such thing as good guys and bad guys. It’s either us or them, if someone who is my enemy is trying to kill me and I capture him I will not show mercy

[@macattackmicmac]

@@Walmart_Joji I presume you are currently in active service then. Though you have incidentally just made a better argument against ever going to war

[@danieltalbot749]

Terrible acts take place on both sides of the line, nobody can say " they shouldn't have done this or that " unless they were actually there and had to deal with it on a daily basis, this CIA guy is just making himself out to be some kind of saint and is out to be something he should have controlled is ridiculous ..... Thanks for the video Jamesons Travels :-)

[@randomphantom6499]

"It's warfare, it's not playfare" one of your best quotes thus far.

[@sagelow3274]

I bet if he watching his mom or loved ones being tortured he'd be singing a different tune. Fact

[@sagelow3274]

Everybody's tough when the war is happening in somebody else's yard but when that Wars in your own yard you'll see a bunch of b******

[@iwatchyoutube6539]

When you have someone captured and subdued they don't have much opportunity to attack you. They have given up and surrendered. That's the difference between why you can shoot an enemy who's ready and able to actively engage and possibly kill you and why once you have captured them you can't electrocute them and pull out their fingernails. plus its sadistic and gross not to mention. Did he really need an explanation for torture of a prisoner is wrong? Wow.

[@Take12music]

@@sagelow3274 everyone tortures everyone. it's called warfare. it doesn't make it okay but things happen. CIA made a habit of using this as a main source of information extraction. The real issue is that they still use Phoenix around the world today (even against Americans)

[@timothysmith3839]

Even today we do the same it's only called a processing camp.women children men are always fair game.

[@begent73]

Love this Vietnam review. More of these please. So many interesting aspects of this war that can be reviewed.

[@janeadams8355]

I lived during the Vietnam War. I watch our guys who were ordered to go come home to people throwing rotten vegetables, eggs, spitting on them. Even young men who had lost legs and arms were treated like garbage. People hated them. They were alone.

[@brianmurphy9355]

We still.are

[@Mike-LitorisSoBig]

Fuck em, the veterans i mean

[@divinemercy3740]

They should have been doing those things to the civilian leaders along with the military brass.

[@lh2823]

Good

[@janeadams8355]

Maybe those of you hating on Veterans should go live in Communist country. These men were conscripted into the military.

[@uke_mike]

Man, Im just a Canadian civilian, never been to any kind of war and these videos are so insightful they make me sad and intrigued at the same time, thanks for the videos. Any Canadian war video reactions? My Uncle was a Sargent Major in the PPCLI in Italy in WW2 where he earned a Military Medal for capturing 19 German soldiers with just a pistol, I read about this in a book called "Hell & High Water" He never spoke of this so I was quite surprised when I read that my very own uncle was such a badass.

[@jamesheath9385]

My duties against the enemy never bothered me. Rough and lethal treatment of my buddies still bother me. 50 + years ago.

[@dominicdecaro3757]

Interesting, I never thought of that

[@haraffael7821]

I find it disturbing how a literal war crime is considered duty by you

[@hainleysimpson1507]

James You mean wat you were abused and brainwashed into doin your government had no right sending any soldiers to vietnam and could have easily turned a blind eye to it. But egotism doesn't make good decisions and many of you suffered for it but the people of Vietnam far more than you and your buddies many of them weren't warriors

[@nkelherik]

You invaded a country and you were a pawn in the government chess board. Don’t act righteous with your ‘duty’ bs.

[@josef-peterroemer6235]

Boo! Hoo!, Whining guys like you make me sick, your ok doing whatever you feel like to the do called enemy whom you invaded, but when they shoot back at you go crying faul. Your a real piece of work, I know low lifes like you.

[@k2000samir]

This method was used for the first time during the Algerian war by the French army.

[@TheArtGearGuide]

Your points are incredibly accurate and valid. No man or women goes to war with the intention of having to do something like torture. But I can guarantee you if anyone is a few months into a war, watching their friends brutally killed as the Americans were in Vietnam, plus also living in pure unadulterated fear that you are going to be next, when you capture the enemy you have a hate for them like you have never experienced before. This is part of the reason why soldiers are so messed up when we return from war and try to reintegrate into civilian life. Excellent video

[@Penna631]

4:00 in the morning can’t sleep but we are here let’s go

[@Bigbirdisntreal]

Same bro

[@tsboxing9034]

Ben Foust Real talk

[@cam1834]

Bored out of your mind. That's my take. What do you think? Let me know in the comments.

[@michaelzorrot5]

Same bud

[@adamdunbar5890]

Man this is the most pertinent conversation ever here in Australia. Not sure if it’s international yet but please take a look at the report into ‘alleged war crimes’ by the special operations task group, particularly the way it’s been leaked, the immediate punishment dished out before anyone has been formally charged, and one of the units being partially disbanded, and the SOTG battle honours being stripped and the meritorious unit citation (very similar to your presidential unit citation) being taken away. This is very very similar, I’d love to watch your reaction

[@jeffjohnson1464]

It's war. It's killing. It's hell.

[@barukkazhad8998]

We must always keep hold of our humanity ..even in war.

[@malaklranal1681]

So would you do the same if they are killing your soldiers, cutting their heads and limbs off slowly as they then throw it at you while fighting? When they record it happening, as your soldiers plead for it to stop and they smile, laughing? If they tried to do the same to you but you escaped?

[@barukkazhad8998]

@@malaklranal1681 as I said we must keep our humanity . If we all slip into such things humanity is lost

[@malaklranal1681]

@@barukkazhad8998 My Opi: humanity is lost when there are no humans. As long as there are humans who exist, humanity could be restored or worked upon to be fixed (my beliefs). I wanted to add that humanity isn’t lost only because one side is doing terrible things in a war (as my example used) Because not all countries would be doing the same.

[@beepboop1044]

@@malaklranal1681Go outside and touch grass

[@stevouknow8408]

I was a US Navy Corpsman I remember when my instructor asked me to pull out my Genova Convention Card and Burn it in front of him. He told me if the I was captured I would have to work on the enemy. He also told me they would separate me from American service men I could possibly help! That was right after he came back from Vietnam.

[@The_Scouts_Code]

"work on the enemy"? what does this mean?

[@williamsmith6706]

​@@The_Scouts_Code provide medical care for the enemy as medical care is the role of a navy corpsman

[@Blessheed]

"...so this guy is clueless"😂😂 and that's the reason i love this channel!!

[@kuurakukka4026]

Reason why Geneva convention is so important is that it will help the conflicts end someday. There has to be some sanity on even in war, more cruelty and suffering you inflict on other side, more desperate they become and longer it takes to move on. The comment "you shouldn't participate on war if you don't want to get hurt" is beyond stupidity, for example victims on this video were forcibly dragged into conflict. With perspective "in war everything is allowed, its a war" Well, don't go call terrorists the bad guys if you accept systematic torture and terror for efficiency, terrorism is just part of war. Also I find it odd to judge people who come out after the war to shed light on the horrors they have committed. In war everything might seem justified "because they/someone else is doing it", but sometimes you might understand the true consequences after the emotions have faded. Sometimes people just want to prevent mistakes done in past from repeating.

[@JamesonsTravels]

I sure hope they don't want to make the same mistakes. My point about not participating in war if you don't want to get hurt is we engage too freeing in conflict. Often at the cheers of the public and don't realize what that entails.

[@davidwadsworth8982]

Have they ended yet?

[@davidwadsworth8982]

Dear Civilian, war is not insane. Cruel, oh yes,violent,sure, evil,as hell, yep. But not insane.Stupid,, absolutely. Organized chaos. And it does have rules. Hate war, disgusted by it? Don't start one.The United States has been castrated when it comes to waging war. It no longer applies TOTAL WAR upon our enemies ass.

[@davidwadsworth8982]

@Pitt Burgh What do you mean? Did you serve in country? I played a small part in this effort. And it was NOT Phoenix Program,it was Project Phoenix. It had 27 programs and directives. One was called C.O.R.D.S. With I-CEX opp's.Little children have no place at the adult table in serious factual conversations. So next time stick to to playing Call of Duty

[@davidwadsworth8982]

@Pitt Burgh Yes you were,and you never answered my question,where did you serve in Vietnam? That non response tell's me you did NOT! In fact you never once took that oath ,and are just another civilian filled with self loathing and try your best to put down those that DID have the guts and integrity to serve when you lack these qualities. And you do not have the guts to admit it!Done with your civilian ass.

[@notme3686]

I tend to agree with Jameson about most of this stuff. When you make the decision to kill the other side because they pose a threat and will not back down, why act like you're playing patty cake? Go in, get it done, and go home.

[@johnhough9593]

‘War is hell… it is all hell. War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, I say we give them all they want’- William Tecumseh Sherman. I think it’s priceless that people apply any moral compass to any aspect of war; as a former Marine, we believe get it done as fast as possible by almost any means possible- then… no war!

[@Ganthian]

16:52 I place blame with the higher ups, always follow Sun Tzu's teachings, if a soldier fails to perform it is on the general and if not the general the officer. I'm sure the CIA hierarchy works much the same.

[@harrymann6185]

The CIA seemed rather incompetent right from the start.

[@Magnulus76]

My uncle served in Vietnam as a Marine and didn't really have a disdain for the NVA/VC. He had a pretty realistic view of the situation, actually.

[@Midwestmama612]

I watched a documentary of the VC from CuChi and they had a similar view at least in that documentary. They didn't hate their enemy but saw the young American men being sent to VN were only doing as their told for their country and the VC was doing what they had to do to protect their country.

[@daysjours]

@@Midwestmama612 NVA/ VC defeated the greatest nation on earth. Says something about them.

[@70stunes71]

Our EOD leader overseas was a former Seal Team One member, that was in PRU unit 1 in 'Nam .. and also a former member of UDT team 11 that had many tours in Vietnam. He was part of The Phoenix Program, and helped liberate pows being held in enemy camps. Glad I served with men such as this.

[@GiantsXbox]

hmm what was your MOS and his??

[@Sweaty-Pancakes]

I'm smokin weed while watching your vids. These 2 camera angles at the same time was trippy at first lol

[@Sweaty-Pancakes]

@Dillon Ventola lmao

[@hawkknight4564]

The subtlety of interrogation is a myth. Ask any police officer that regularly interrogate people. Interview 10 people, you’ll get 14 different views/Opinion. You interview the same 10 an additional 10 times. And you’ll end up with a purple fur coat unicorn wearing Dilophosaurus with a shiny black pistol Machine gun. Snafu.

[@d.cypher2920]

I once had a legendary encounter, purely accidental: year 2005-6, Thanksgiving dinner. I go to my gf's house, and her sister brings guest. After some discussion, idk why, but we start talk Nam, etc. I said, yeah i know a little about the Phoenix program, i read about it in a couple books, and saw documentary. It was run by a maj gen B lawlor. Gf's sister looks dead at me, she said "Hey, that's my boss!". I laughed in disbelief, she then said: *"he's sitting right across the table from you!"* I almost pissed myself. We talked a bit about overall aspects, nothing spooky. What he told me changed my mind about the information availed about it: He says: ...when you're fighting a war son, shit gets ugly, fast. Really ugly. So, if you want to win, you don't send librarians and humanitarians, for the most part. You send soldiers, and killers. You also send smart, capable people who can manage those guys effectively. Then he told me that the Communist regime was doing pretty much the same thing, only with much less control, oversight, and literally 10's ok thousands of loyal people to Americans were being killed in nighttime assassinations. The infrastructure people. So, this was a program designed to counter that. He told me, that countries are run like corporations, and you don't just give everything away to your competitors do you? So, essentially he said there's no free lunch, if you owned a company overseas, and the company was under threat of being literally stolen by enemy forces, you would want your assets protected. This was our way of protecting American interests. That's Empire. That's the 'Great Game'. Be well. Cool videos. [At the time of my discussion with the man, he was running a private company that train City Gov't to to respond to Emergencies, and terrorism. I cannot remember the name, I'm not sure I asked him that.] Obviously I was blown away meeting him. God Bless America. ☀️😎☀️🇺🇸

[@TheReaperKinlord]

sounds like nazi stuff

[@alexmathews3374]

I love hearing a expert talk instead of someone who has no idea what they are saying

[@stoicloic]

This guy is an expert on torture? Sooooo hes a sociopath? Neat!

[@thomassawyer6523]

Ho Chi Min was unwilling to give in, so he gave his blessing for millions of his own people to die - whether they were soldiers or just innocent civilians. Unlike Fidel Castro, you didn't see him in the jungle fighting and facing death.

[@kawaiimapleleaf]

Torture and weapons that brings an unreasonable amount of unnessecary pain to soldiers and any undiscriminate damage to civilains crosses the line

[@Chancey13]

Not a fan of the two camera angles, like it when it’s just the one so it doesn’t take away from the video you’re watching

[@realkingrey2732]

tbh I dig it

[@Chancey13]

Space Dandy ? It’s just like, my opinion man

[@johnfreedom3557]

Bill Colby hit the nail on the head. As a Company Commander when we took prisoners we got whatever immediate Intel.we could. Then prisoners where airlifted to the rear and turned over to the POW Crew. Those fellows were relentless at obtaining Intel. It may have been a slow grind; and for the most part we got actionable Intel that we were able to Plan Raids on Base Camps. I stand by my acceptance of what Bill Colby stated.

[@Raven-sv4es]

"Where is the line?" It's hard to tell. From what I have learned about War or Warfare, it has it's own rules and that's what most people don't understand. At least I have to say, I appreciate that you are not afraid to talk about "uncomfortable" things.

[@non9886]

what are you talking about?! he is obviously uncomfortable. because he knows that it was bad war and us army and him self did and do horrible things. so he is cocky and downplaying it, to save his own ass...

[@alaneevans]

My father was in the Phoenix Program. He never said anything about it until the early 2000's. I wonder why this program is so different to what he said. He never said anything at all until just before he passed. But things he did say made me seriously question most of what I have read about Phoenix. First of all the program was aimed at the top people. It was carefully targeted. Secondly each team member had a number (1 to 5 say). Number 1 had a specific role, number 2 etc. They were carefully selected to make sure they had never met each other. Throughout the entire operation they did not know anything about the others except their numbers. After the mission they went their separate ways never to see each other again. So how do you write a detailed history of this program ? His MOS was Counterinsurgency. He felt that torture was a waste of time for the simple reason that things changed so fast that their information ( in his words) was useful for about the next 15 minutes. The other aspect was that the prisoners were unlikely to know anything at all. I admire these people. They are unacknowledged for very good reasons but have provided some outstanding results.

[@jason-iv5lb]

Thankyou for sharing your Fathers experience! Its a really really interesting comment and speaks volumes.

[@c.d.halfhill876]

I would love to see the History channel start filming and documenting the experiences of Vietnam veterans. We're now 50 years past that war. All we need the veterans account of their experiences.

[@TheReaperKinlord]

the commanding officers talked thats how we know. "carefully targetted" bullshit. they paid the ARVN for scalps and even the US spec forces teams who were more targetted were relying on intel given to them by local allies. often flawed intel, universal problem, but then put into an assassination system, it was used in a variety of ways

[@rondodson5736]

There is one rule of war "There are no rules." If doing something would save one life of our soldiers then i don't care what ever is needed, i would do it. Yes years later i thought about those i had killed and wonder if they had lived, maybe they would have become a great leader, invented something for mankind, become a famous actor or singer, create something good for society, then yes i felt sorry for those i killed for possibly denying then the possibility of contributing to society. Bottom line i was a soldier doing my duty, just like the enemy soldiers on the other side. I never hated them and have gone back twice already and was amazed that there were no hard feelings and what a beautiful country and people they are.

[@jasonpettit9984]

In Vietnam my father was a radio man,1st 5th marines,corporal Pettit,James

[@ralphstewart4025]

And now the Vietnamese people are so kind to American visitors. They don't hold any grudges. Many Americans want to retire there, but you can't collect social security in VN. Some Senator should sponsor a bill and get this reversed, in light of improved relations and the current world situation.

[@JamesonsTravels]

I agree. I grew up with refugees from the war. Great people.

[@rubberonasphalt]

Most Vietnamese citizens understand the politics, and how U.S. soldiers didn’t want to be there for war as much as the people. It’s complicated, but as individuals, both the Vietnamese and Americans were pawns in a crappy political game. Unfortunately, just as in any war, civilians can get caught up, so you can’t blame them for their grudges against Americans. Similarly, the Vietcong were nasty too, so I can also understand the hatred against the Vietnamese also. But remember, this was a war of north and south Vietnam, where the south was backed by the U.S. and north backed by Chinese and Russian communist parties. Yet many from the south suffered by the hands of the U.S. military. It was a messy war, and the politics were B.S., bit in the end, all sides lost in this war. Remember also, this was a time without internet or reliable news, so it was easy for both sides to get confused who was the ally.

[@Borat_Kazakh]

Vietnam and the US are now allies against China. China is claiming the entire South China Sea as territorial waters. US and VN are now in talks to allow US carriers to make port calls at VN harbors.

[@troydhansen4990]

My father was a 5E LRRP in 68-69 in Vietnam, his 5 man squad came across a CIA compound in the middle of Charlie's territory, being manned by two CIA agents. In the middle of the jungle!!

[@SungJaeUng3]

"War is cruelty." ~General William T. Sherman

[@SungJaeUng3]

That being said, the question of government employees(be they soldiers, intelligence agents, etc) torturing citizens for actionable intelligence isn't just the moral issue that most people see as the crux of the issue. Torture of enemy soldiers and civilians, especially if the civilians you're torturing are in fact not combatants, supporters, or even sympathizers, has a scaling effect of creating sympathizers and supporters in the region where operations are being conducted. Recruiting people that previously hadn't wanted to get involved, but because his mom got grabbed up by soldiers and came back with burns, fractured bones, and missing fingernails, now he has been radicalized for life. A mother that has the roof of her house come down and crush her baby to death isn't going to just let that go. Using mustard gas and unrestricted submarine warfare left an impression on the families and nations of the people who were killed. Warfare is ugly, cruel, and brutal business, and to a degree civvies know that. When prosecuting a war, using tactics that don't take collateral damage in to consideration can result in moving the goal posts beyond the capabilities of the force trying to achieve their objectives. Unless we start making every war we fight a war of extermination, and we can debate the pros and cons of that another time, then eventually there will come a time when the war ends and we're going to have to find a way to peaceably share the planet with them. Racking up civilian casualties, using biogical or chemical weapons, and torturing civilians are actions that can disproportionately affect public perception. That public perception, the cultural impact on the population, can have effects that extend well beyond the date peace treaties are signed. Torturing or executing enemy POWs can result in our own POWs being the ones to bare the brunt of retaliation. It's hard to negotiate a prisoner exchange if we don't have any prisoners to give them. Killing or torturing enemy POWs, can be the djfference between an american pow getting to go home and see his family again, or dying alone and abandoned in a muddy hole in the ground. The secondary effects of torturing people can result in the conflict lasting longer, which translates in to more money being spent to prosecute that conflict, and more americans getting torn up and killed. Maybe not in the short term, but prolonged fear and hostility increases the likelihood of recurring conflicts. One long death spiral. Secondly, torturing people for information doesn't work. It obviously doesn't work on people that genuinely don't have the information the torturer is looking for, but even on people that do have the necessary intelligence. Subject somebody to enough pain, and all they're going to do is tell the torturer whatever they think the torturer wants to hear to make the pain stop. In their feverish mind, what they think the torturer wants to hear, may not be what the torturer is actually looking for. They might just start spouting completely fictional stories, because as long as they keep talking they're not having a propane torch melting the bottom of their feet. They may have vital information about something completely separate from what is being asked, but all they can think to do is answer the questions being asked. The FBI actually has extensive practice and hence cultivated effective interrogation techniques. They don't waterboard suspects because it's immoral, it's because they learned a long time ago that it doesn't work. Anyway, just something to consider. Carry on.

[@Youre_Right]

Torture has proven to be an ineffective interrogation technique. People will finally admit to whatever it is you want them to just to make the torture stop.

[@galaxy5086]

Your sentence is contradictory.

[@MrChrisdixon1]

That line gets blurred for sure. Love your very honest commentary.

[@streetlethal3727]

The Phoenix program was big. Alot of soldiers were involved and didn't know it.🐲😇

[@anarchistcocktail3455]

Nope, all memebers of it knew it, it was in the handbook they were given

[@badhabitbabbitt7655]

Soo when are we going to see how the NVA VC conducted their interrogations???

[@Mike-LitorisSoBig]

Triggered much? Mimimi

[@niqerfaguettranykyke]

@@Mike-LitorisSoBig says the mofo that made more than 7 respond comments

[@0873sp]

What I have found is that senior leaders are the first ones to take credit for things when things go well and are the first ones to point fingers at junior personnel when things get screwed up.

[@snuffygrunt2842]

"Moral Issues in Military Decision Making" - Anthony Hartle You can extract information with torture that will save lives... ruin your career.. and get a medal for it.

[@wolfgangkranek376]

The problem is not just when you start torturing people because they actually have information, or because you want to collate information. Soon you start torturing them to make sure that they don't have information. In the end, why take any prisoners at all? The world is not perfect and there is always a lot a grey, so things will happen. But even so, either you have values or you don't. And I also don`t know of any war that was won because of torturing, or lost because there was no torture.

[@davidwadsworth8982]

Shit for brains,never got a medal.

[@wolfgangkranek376]

@@davidwadsworth8982 The history of every armed force in the world is full of people with "shit for brains" who did get medals. Maybe one reason why those who actually earned their medals often are very humble about it.

[@davidwadsworth8982]

@@wolfgangkranek376 missed the point dick less. First off shit for brains soldiers do not last long,they die .@nd you fake is spooks neither seek, nor accept medals. Secrecy is our way.Where and with service did you serve,being as you have such a deep knowledge of all things military. We were never there, get it?

[@snuffygrunt2842]

@@wolfgangkranek376 - Hypothetical scenario. You've captured a terrorist. His cell has a dirty bomb planted in the US at a music or sports venue expecting tens of thousands of visitors. You have one hour. Would you violate your oath and disregard the "rules" of war to torture and extract the information? The text book answer is "no".. its immoral, you'll violate your integrity, and ruin your military career; but, if you're like me, you won't let thousands perish either.

[@phillipharvey9104]

Funny, no war crimes ????? No war criminals???, no trials???

[@JamesonsTravels]

exactly. just a few books about it years later and CIA say how they are virtuous years later.

[@Silverswitch1]

The My Lai massacre has a trail

[@thewordman6013]

You do what it takes to get your team and yourself back home alive

[@Punkinbushcraft]

You brother are literally the sir Attenborough of the people 🤘🏻 love your vids ! Much love from Manchester England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@JakeSwan94]

Good documentary. Torture has been used by armies as far back as Ancient Rome, Egypt,Greece etc. I don't see how it can be stopped!

[@Krak1in]

Years ago I did computer work for an old disabled vet. I thought he was just this mostly harmless old guy that had poor luck with computers. The last time I saw him he began telling me about being deployed to Vietnam. He talked about how he was part of a group that went around identifying village leaders who were less than enthusiastic about the cause and took them out, describing in vivid detail the process of slitting a guy's throat. While telling me this he also retrieved and showed me what he said was his old combat knife. I remember that it had several notches carved into the handle and the word "Phoenix" stamped into the blade. I don't know for sure if he actually did those things, but knowing at the time that he was suffering from the early stages of Alzheimer's (and what that did to my grandpa) I'd never been so scared in my entire life. He died a few years later (2013) and his obituary noted that he was in Vietnam amongst other places but was most noted for his leadership during Operation Just Cause in Panama.

[@tikletik]

now I want to hear what American and South Vietnamese POWs experienced in the glorious Communist vacation system.

[@ianmcsherry5254]

I think, here in the UK, we came to the conclusion a long time ago, that really working people over doesn't guarantee results. You start beating people, breaking bones, using tools on them, whatever, those prisoners will say any damn thing to make it stop. From what material is in the public domain, psychological torture is the preferred way. Sleep deprivation in stress positions. Sonic torture for days and nights on end. All sorts of stuff to work on the brain. You might end up with a broken human, mentally, but they will end up gladly talking. Even in WW2, British intelligence got a hell of a lot out of certain people by use of simple psych ops, or even just bugging the cells.

[@johnsegertsons2143]

This is so one sided "Americans bad" "Americans were so brutal" But the prisoners taken by the NVA. got tummy rubs hot cocoa and luxury accommodation at the Hanoi Hilton??? My older brother was with the 5th at Hue city where he lost his foot.I remember him saying "the biggest mistake we made was not dropping the A-bomb and wasting all those SOB' north and south"!

[@firefox5926]

4:00 well the whole thing about why we dont do torture is that if we dont torture theirs they might be less inclined to torture ours and if we openly torture theirs that will almost insure that they will torture ours ... you know its that old think of mean wearing flamethrowers catching fire from both sides because neither side likes the idea of being burned to death ..

[@SavedSnake]

The good ole days ...when men were men and women were women....and fighting for America was some what worth it.

[@vieuxacadian9455]

Carlos Hathcock mentioned the " Apache woman " and Her methods in His biography . read and learn .

[@wolfcarr3507]

Majority of "interrogations" were done by the Vietnamese but supervised by the CIA from what I was told by a ARVN officer I knew. I was part of Phoenix locating the NVA and Khmer in Cambodia

[@GiantsXbox]

what was your MOS?

[@TheSaltyAdmiral]

I'd say it crosses the line when it goes from being a tactic to being sadism.

[@artrunningbear3599]

was homeless many years, held the hands of guys dying under a bridge because they couldn't talk, the VA ignored us, even tried to write a book was blocked and threatened. Still have that book, one day it may be allowed to come out. Family rescued me but still suffer the headaches from the brainwashing.

[@sawmillmatt1]

Those CIA guys look soulless.

[@scowler7200]

Yuppies.

[@daysjours]

Read The Devil´s Chessboard. The CIA is a sociopathic organization. Staffed in the 1950s by some of the very very top Nazis. The book is just stunning on every page.

[@lastknowngood0]

All is fair in love or war is a time honored statement. Read the book "The Phoenix Program" by Douglas Valentine. Oh BTW "The Condor Program" in South America is a another gem.

[@adarshbiswas7099]

STFU

[@daysjours]

An absolute must read is The Devil´s Chessboard by David Talbot.

[@felixfranzen7318]

Exactly man! It's not the Vietnamese or whoever, every war is the same. People have this illusion that you can have a clean humanitarian war were the only atrocities are commited by the other guy.

[@JamesonsTravels]

There is not clean way of killing people to the soul.

[@nomad155]

6:08 I think the issue is that when the US implements these interrogation methods, they aren't punished as their enemies are. The Trials after WWII and the Vietnam war are an example. A current one is Abu Ghrab (may have mispelled). Enemies haven't been able to invade American citizens in the same capacity as Americans did to Vietnam and the Middle East. If you choose to go to war and fight the enemy go ahead, but attacking civilians; women and children? That's the issue folks have. Those who have nothing to do with it. Just as you said "What if it was your brother or friend" I would hope they know that if they choose to violate an innocent civilian who chose not to get involved, it fuels their enemies. Don't expect folks to kiss your feet cause you served, it was your choice. Take the thanks for service and move one with the choice you made. Thank you for being honest, even though I agree with some of your statements, your honesty is necessary for conversation.

[@mykelengieza7057]

Brutally honest. Appreciate your perspective.

[@illumination101]

When I was a kid I accidentally got soapy water in my mouth. The instant it gets in your throat, you panic.

[@eheheheheedesscoi5173]

I still don’t know in what side are you in, pro torture or against it

[@JamesonsTravels]

I am not pro torture. It's seems to constantly be the unsightly out cropping of conflict.

[@jacksonblanks8038]

@@JamesonsTravels so torture is used only when necessary. not for just fun either but for a military action as in you cant torture them bc its fun but if they have intel and they wont tell you then in war i would see it as ok to torture the person. i would also like to say there is a reason torture is being phased out as it is highly unreliable and other techniques based through psychology are much more effective at leading to correct intel.