Physics in Sonic the Hedgehog Video Games - A Comparison

[@poteriukusu]

I’m glad the director of Frontiers, Morio Kishimoto, watched this video.

[@SuperSonic68]

I'm very glad too!! I was hoping he would!

[@zonikel----]

​@@SuperSonic68music?

[@deanmoriarty6015]

I mean, that’s great. It’s cool he’s paying attention, but… he really needed this pointed out to him? He’s a lead director and he needs a bunch of fans to explain that momentum matters in a Sonic game? Why do we infantilize these grown adults?

[@frickerrific2813]

@@deanmoriarty6015because business men might as well be fucking babies with how fucking stupid they’ve been

[@Sonic-VA-]

Wait...he did!?

[@SuperSonic68]

Update: Morio Kishimoto, director of Sonic Frontiers has seen this video. This has been a shock and a surprise to me. I am so happy and I feel so... heard.

[@floatyghost633]

that makes me happy

[@gamesworldexe]

Congratulations man)

[@hopeonelove4703]

What did he say?

[@davidandre3719]

And now there's a momentum update in frontiers 😂

[@floatyghost633]

@@davidandre3719 ture, but it's not enough

[@telekinesticman]

This is so good!! I watched this with my brother and he was absolutely baffled at how bad the movement is in Frontiers. I've been saying since the first gameplay footage that Sonic was superglued to the floor, and that it would obviously be bad for the player movement.

[@SuperSonic68]

Oh, shoot! It's this guy! It's the guy who does the good videos! Good to see ya here!

[@matthewradaza9761]

This show how sega gone down hill with momentum in sonic games

[@SuperSonic68]

You cheeky son-of-a-gun.

[@matthewradaza9761]

@@SuperSonic68 get it hahaha

[@tmcttf8087]

@@matthewradaza9761 😂

[@TrueHDR]

Gonna show this next time I have a board meeting with sonci team 😆 Good work on this! I hope it gets shared around a lot, these are points that really need more relevancy if they want to make the next game more interactive and fun

[@SNickIsReal]

Nicely well put, there's a lot that bothers me with frontiers' character controller and it's good to see demonstrations like these out there.

[@MegaGeek-gr6ts]

I'm glad Kishimoto is listening and trying to give the fans what they want. Hopefully for the next game they make the game with momentum in mind.

[@UglyFatLover8]

nope

[@Genesis-XE]

Looks like Morio Kishimoto and Sonic Team listened and added momentum and the spin dash in Update 2 for Frontiers

[@chocov1233]

I feel as if the Drop Dash in Sonic Frontiers is supposed to be used more for combat and less for traversal. Because they have been able to get the Spin Dash and Drop Dash working for traversal in this engine already with Classic Sonic in Sonic Forces, either that or they ported over the Drop Dash from Forces into 3D but didn't tweak it so you have good control over it on the x-axis or z-axis. From my tests in the demo, Frontiers does indeed have momentum carried over off of slopes, I use it to beat the first Tower boss quickly when speedrunning.

[@szszabolcs9582]

WAIT THE BOOST GAMES HAD DONWARD HILL PHYSICS???? I DID NOT KNOW THAT The boost games had FAR MORE MOMENTUM THAN WE EXPECTED It's just overshadowed by the boost

[@oogboog3878]

I think if you boost and jump off of a hill in those games the momentum will be pretty obvious

[@frickerrific2813]

It’s funny that we have to spell it out in simple terms for the babies in the back. Like the director of FUCKING SONIC FRONTIERS.

[@ari-man]

Love how you presented it as if you're trying to explain it to a toddler. Hoping Kishimoto understood 🤞

[@msgameandcake628]

Sometimes Sonic's interactions with slopes does work properly in Frontiers. In particular, there are multiple timed "get to the triangle pad goal" challenges in the desert area that require the player to ascend a series of rocky walls. Said walls typically slope upwards dramatically at the bottom. Boosting into the slope and jumping does give Sonic a substantial amount of extra height, enough to essentially skip the conventional platforming challenges laid out by the area. Of course, this is just one example of the physics working in this way, and it requires a steep upwards slope combined with a jump to get the result when other iterations of Sonic either wouldn't need to jump, just getting launched up via his speed + slope alone, or wouldn't need such an intense slope, getting the heightened jump off of a more basic hill. Ultimately, this interaction still exists in the game, just at a dramatically decreased degree.

[@joshwillcox7141]

I'm sure people know but I'll say it anyway. Obviously Frontiers was built off Forces but something I don't hear a lot is that Forces is clearly built off Lost World. Y'know, the game designed around a RUN BUTTON, and round spherical or tube like level design where they had to make sure sonic would automatically magnetize to the nearest triangle on the ground unless airborne. This is the route of the glue shoes people keep complaining about. Wouldn't it be dumb if Nintendo reused the physicals from Mario Galaxy for... Say, Odyssey. Wouldn't that be stupid? Well that's basically what Sonic Team did.

[@legoboy7107]

Well actually, while not Galaxy, Nintendo did reuse the systems and framework from 3D World for Odyssey, it's built off the same codebase and Mario's movement in Odyssey is directly modified off 3D World's which is a very differently designed game, so they DID do the same sort of thing as Sonic Team did for Forces...it's just that Nintendo actually did it RIGHT and WELL, unlike Sonic Team (for the most part, there's various limiting 3D World remnants still in Mario Odyssey's movement that I don't like but that's a minority). And also if they did build it off Galaxy there wouldn't be these issues anyway, Galaxy doesn't have this janky magnetizing thing to begin with anyway unlike these Lost World-derived Sonic games, Galaxy has plenty of flat no-gravity-gimmicks levels and they work just as fine and well as other normal 3D Marios no problem, because it relies mainly on a gravity field system which works just fine for normal platformer gravity too. It's not an issue of this kind of reuse _on paper,_ it's just a question of how to do it right and just the levels of how much better Nintendo was at coding all this stuff and designing these games than Sonic Team was lol.

[@envy6813]

Finally i found it! I saw this on sam procrastinates stream but i couldn't find a link so i had to look for it. It took a bit but I finally found you so i can give you the credit you deserve

[@SunkythePootis]

2:44 Brb, just gonna play Splash Hill Zone in the background for this part. lol

[@S.omeone618]

When I'm in a being underrated competition and my opponent is you

[@NeoNoteDev]

As much as I know. This thing is kinda like sonic 4 physics but now they are in main line games 💀 Like the momentum lose when not pressing any direction buttons (that's a thing for some reason, Sonic would lose his speed gradually if player doesn't press buttons, even if they're going downhill)

[@Harrinsain]

This all seems really patronising at first, like "of course this should work like that. I know how basic physics work" but then you cut to the Frontiers footage utterly failing to replicate it and it's just the funniest thing imaginable to watch unfold before my eyes.

[@superbro6413]

I did not know Frontier's physics were this funky. I learned something new today. Thanks!

[@Visleaf]

Thank you for making this video!

[@adrielalves531]

gotta love that you HAD to point out with stickers what is physics-accurate and what's not

[@fronkus123]

when the open wor- sorry I mean open zone, game doesn't let you interact with the world at all.

[@tmcttf8087]

Very informative. Not sure how this all got so....less expansive.

[@threemonic]

another banger my lord

[@GcubePlayer8]

Good to see them still online

[@zonikel----]

Running on walls is blocked on purpose because if you import any terrain sonic will not be blocked, this happens because the developers wanted to hide the invisible walls in a discreet way

[@jackhumphries1087]

Granted being able to run on any wall would completely break frontiers.

[@sonicfanYT6944]

U created my childhood with that sonic and shadow live action vid u made years ago

[@Technonova323]

Even though I enjoy Frontiers, I do wish it had actual physics and momentum. Would've made the game and it's movement so much more enjoyable.

[@JosephVJP]

“You just can’t beat this genesis you know?”

[@PieCat]

Sonic Frontiers is a great game but the physics really leaves a lot to be desired

[@HueManatee]

im not sure a series built around physics based platforming can have a title thats "great" but leaves it core mechanic in the trash

[@HOTD108_]

@@HueManatee Sonic fans will defend anything.

[@HueManatee]

@@HOTD108_ you got that right

[@TechBlade9000]

@@HueManatee A series built around physics others had yet to replicate in the next 5 years* Just gotta emphasize how revolutionary they were

[@PieCat]

@@HueManatee I mean, I had fun with it.

[@2ndspringtube708]

5:20 there is that time when I dropped dash and I got myself flying with my speed being carried I don’t know how I did it i couldn’t do it again so yeah the physics in frontiers are just inconsistent

[@Automatik234]

I wonder, how nodifiable physics values and collision meshes are in Frontiers. Din't get the game yet, but something inside of me wants to take a look at the game files and try to tix some aspects with modding. Alterations of the physics are possible in Generations too, after all.

[@fronkus123]

People have already made physics mods that allow speed to be carried into jumps, increased speed downhill, and slower uphill. It makes it a lot more fun to just run around.

[@amusicdude5564]

Maybe having the homing attack influenced by speed could also improve things. Imagine, you hit an enemy with the H. A. and instead of going perfectly vertical on air and breaking your speed as a consequence, you gain some push forward depending on how fast you are running or jumping.

[@christianelhoayek5047]

Like how our dude here created the Bumper Engine, you mean. And project Hero

[@e.ggamerguy5793]

Kinda like the additive homing attack mod for sonic gens?

[@BlackBlur888]

I also hate Sonic 4. It ruined my life.

[@DemonDethchase]

3:00 not sure if I'm looking at Sonic Frontiers or Sonic 4 Episode 1 😑

[@DocLobsterson]

All they had to do was improve the slope factor time it seems lol

[@derrick4804]

great video

[@drgabi18]

It's all because there's too much glue on Sonic's shows in Frontiers

[@TronicSSJ07]

And people say Frontiers has the best gameplay…

[@2ndspringtube708]

They kinda tried to do stuff like this with the forces framework creating frontiers which is probably the worst framework to work with

[@Onaterdem]

And the Forces framework was built on top of the Lost World framework, so...

[@2ndspringtube708]

@@Onaterdem fair point even though lost world framework isn’t the best to work with in term of physics

[@Onaterdem]

@@2ndspringtube708 Exactly - do you remember how Super Sonic's boost felt in Lost World? That's basically Sonic Forces. It was a side gimmick in Lost World, so it was excusable, but it's the whole entire gameplay in Forces, so it's really really bad. Frontiers fixes it a little bit but it's still very bad. They have to start from scratch, or build on top of Generations.

[@2ndspringtube708]

@@Onaterdem you’re solutions could work but I think they could work with the frontiers framework well

[@Onaterdem]

@@2ndspringtube708 I mean, they'd have to rewrite the entire controls system. Which is just wayy more work than reusing the already perfectly usable Generations framework By framework I mean the controls framework, by the way

[@typreegamingtpg2198]

I wonder why people disliked this video

[@GuestChannelAfnan]

Will you return:(

[@hypershadic762]

Some people probably: wow kishimoto has seen this it must have a lot of vie- oh… *1499 views* Regardless I’m so happy he has seen this

[@anch5399]

They made Frontiers with Sonic 4 physics? Damn bro they sucks.

[@Jagarofilmy]

Hello can you make video of Sonic superstars pls

[@szszabolcs9582]

It's not worth discussing cause Superstars has Mania physics Aka peak physics

[@Jagarofilmy]

@@szszabolcs9582 i already know that, i saw a physics and i said it’s a Mania physics and that’s it

[@funnyusername4774]

Simple as, how tf and why tf do they keep messing it up

[@CyberKevin]

Because Sonic physics in Open Space need to be less restrictive, that's literally what made some specific moment in Adventure a nightmare to climb. Could be better for sure, but I clearly see the "why": want Sonic to go where you want to go without the game making you change your speed for any travel you do. CyberSpace stages should have those still

[@HueManatee]

@@CyberKevin sonic in open space needs to take advantage of the core gameplay in order to actually be interesting. i dont want him to control like a glorified train. look at something like Sonic Utopia. its a blast to play around in the demo stage. imagine now that Frontiers' open world was like that. I would hardly call Sonic's core gameplay "restrictive", in fact, compared to the flat, point A - B movement of Frontiers, id say its full of freedom

[@TheBlueSpikes]

@@CyberKevin But the physics in open space are MORE restrictive. You can speed up as much, or at all really, you can't convert that speed into a jump, you can't wall run... You have less options when you should have more.

[@teryliuhoo5989]

@@HueManatee utopias great. I just wish that I didn’t feel so heavy in the air? It’s like a pain to turn compared to something like gt

[@HueManatee]

@@teryliuhoo5989 well, you might find that rectified in the actual release

[@ICantThinkOfACreativeNick]

Out of ALL the walls in ALL the islands, you specifically used ones, that you shouldn’t be able go walk on by game design. You just used barrier/slippery walls to prove that S.F ”doesn’t have wall running” if you chosed literally any other wall in this game, even if there still would be some jank, you could still run along them adventure style. You have some sketchy stuff going here, not gonna lie. ”Proving” your point by using a specific situation that perfectly fits your claim. :/ Also, there is actual slope physics in S.F, just look at lvl-1 drop-dash on Rhea island and 2D cyberspace. (mainly green hill stages.) Just do more experimentation before you jump to conclusions next time. :|

[@alder613]

I found the music used in this video! kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXzSe4mrlsicmtE

[@01iver]

why frontiers whyyyy

[@jeanollarve]

Puedes hacer una versión para Android

[@jeanollarve]

Por favor

[@szszabolcs9582]

?

[@Onaterdem]

Ah yes, "Sonic Frontiers has the best Sonic physics" Hell no it doesn't. Just because Sonic can stop or turn instantly doesn't mean he controls well.

[@legoboy7107]

And funny thing is being able to stop and turn instantly actually goes against the very concept of momentum and gaining and maintaining speed, you can't do either of those things in the beloved Classic games that are the big examples of momentum Sonic physics done right, you have to deal with and fight against the speed you have if you wanna stop or change direction.

[@Onaterdem]

@@legoboy7107 Frontiers has no momentum at all, the entire physics system is fake and phoned in because it's built on top of Sonic freaking Lost World and they refuse to rebuild it. Maybe next time. Edit: All video game physics are fake, duh, but most of them either have an intentionally inaccurate physics system that you can distinguish from reality or an accurate enough physics system that feels like the real deal. Sonic Frontiers is right at the uncanny valley of video game physics, and it ends up feeling awful because of it.

[@legoboy7107]

@@Onaterdem Yep.

[@floatyghost633]

this bugs me

[@ThisisTheUltimate]

Me when Sonic doesn't have physics on things that I'll not even use because it is a Boost game: 😭

[@stormysoup1083]

That spindash and jump momentum update must've made you feel pretty stupid lol