(picking 432) A pick-proof lock? - GM car ignition lock inspected - thanks to 'PickME 1977'

This lock is a nightmare for every lockpicker. Because of the mechanism how the lock works, it appears unpickable to me. But judge yourself.

[@lockpickinglawyer]

Nice video. GM has been using this design since the 1930s... I agree it can't be picked if it is mounted such that you can't tension the sidebar. unfortunately, there are tools that can easily decode it. There are lots of modern locks that operate on this principle, including that latest version of the Kwikset smartkey, and a whole bunch of surprisingly robust Chinese locks.

[@Potti314]

Thank you. I think it's a great design for a pick-proof lock. The methods to defeat this mechanism by e.g. auto-jigglers were mentioned, but what do you mean by decoding? I can imagine that more precisely made locks with more wafer, etc. can eliminate the application of try-out keys. Just as you say, many modern locks follow this pattern. Is this the end of lock picking?

[@RAkers-tu1ey]

I would love to see a bunch of variations on this design. New Video?

[@mkwsng]

This principle can be overcomed by brute force like a classic scerwdriver attack in movies. So high security lock in China usually builded to be free spinning.

[@powertvau]

LockPickingLawyer use a car dip stick for oil it will unlock.. I do this to get in car's with style keys lol

[@Chaddz3]

Actually this lock style appeared in 1969 for compliance with Federal safety standards which required locking steering columns for the 1970 model year.. The basic lock assembly dates back to 1967.. the previous GM locks going back to 1930 were briggs and stratton designed locks which used a single key way, in 1967 GM introduced the "Letter Key" locks where there were 7 different keyways.. labeled A, B, C, D, E, H, J, K. the pair would rotate every model year.. A,B keys were used for 1967, C,D for 1968, E.H for 1969 and J,K for 1970. in 71 they started over with the AB pair again.. this continued until 78 which would be the final year for the J,K pair. in 80 they settled on the CD pair which went until 85 or 86,, from 87 on they used the E,H pair on everything including the PASSKEY system starting in 1988 ... the only ignition lock that didnt use this was the 1991-94 Chevy Cavalier.. which used a double cut key.. in 1995 GM went to the 10 tumbler double cut key.. with this key designed phased out in 1996..

[@rockhavenfarms7213]

If you have the sensitivity of the prohibited lock picking lawyer fingers. You can individually pick the wafers without tensioning the core but the spring tension is divided between wafers so it is incredibly hard to feel the bar snap into place. Keep in mind that each wafer has to remain placed while the next is placed.

[@RobKThe]

Nice video and explanation. I have a gm lock a friend gave to me but it didn't have the housing. I played around with it just pressing the bar in like you showed and didn't think anything more of it. Looks like if I had the housing it would have been a much greater challenge.

[@Potti314]

Thanks for watching. Yes, the complete lock must be taken into account when attempting to unlock what is secured with the lock. The mechanism itself is easy to overcome but the way the whole lock is built is relevant.

[@LockNoob]

As others have said, jugglers might work as long as the tolerances are poor enough. Great vid and explanation :-)

[@Potti314]

Thank you buddy. The tolerances are horrible. Do you have such keys?

[@LockNoob]

Potti314 I do :-) do you? If you don't I'll send you some

[@Potti314]

No, I have no such keys, but wait... I'd prefer to see that locked "jiggled" by someone else. First I asked Apache if he would like to get it. If no, I'd love to send it to you. I'll keep you up-to-date :-)

[@LockNoob]

Potti314 no problem friend. Apache is a far better picker than me so if anyone can get an open it will him. I'd love to have a go if he doesn't want to though :-)

[@mywifesuksdik]

Jigglers only work if you tension the side bar. Im a locksmith. I jiggle key these every day.

[@DonzLockz]

So if this unpickable, who needs a Protec2?😁 I'm gonna have to retrofit this into my front door! Would look cool too!👀✌🙃

[@Potti314]

Wow that's cool a house-door lock in the shape of this old ignition car-lock - very cool :-)

[@ImTHATguy...]

Intro had me thinking I was watching the Hydraulic Press Channel 😂

[@Potti314]

If all locks were made like that, there would be not lockpicking sports anymore ;-)

[@DarkWoodPicks]

You can drill a small hole and apply tension on the sidebar. Or light tension CAN work but it's EXTREMELY hard. I had to fit two gm locks and we used jigglers to pick the ignition open. 68 keys on the chain but only went through the first 7 before it turned. :)

[@Potti314]

I tried light tension and had no success. The hole might work but it's destructive and you need to know exactly the place. Not easy from the outside. I can imaging that tryout keys work well, given the bad precision of the locking mechanism.

[@Jackcc5]

Potti314 its not destructive its necessary if its only a small hole the lock will still work fine mate. these igniton often stuff out sometimes the only way to fix them is to drill out the side bar from the surface then replace the plug.

[@DarkWoodPicks]

Jackcc5 you'd have to plug the hole up and it's a good size hole

[@Jackcc5]

DarkWoodPicks use need it its a compound that drys hard the hole only has to be 2m just enjoy room to put something small in.

[@s0men00bb]

I saw this one on very old Ford Taurus (very rare in my country and region) , and I have similar working chinese (I think it's chinese) locker / desk drawer lock , that uses very similar design. And , it can't be - tensioned. When You try to tension it , You also tension all wafers , so , You can't put them down correctly. Key is cut on upper side , so , it's kinda unusual for this type of locks. It can be made to emulate this lock on video , by inserting small bars on 3 sides so only one can be unlocking one. I'll post a pics of key , core with key in it , and bible itself , as it has 4 sides for lock / unlock.

[@Potti314]

Sounds very interesting, it's cool to see so many different designs. I'm subbed.

[@josephkolb2248]

That style lock you need a GM ige key they're all the same on the top now grind teeth flat to where u can insert pick in lock on bottom side and start your light pressure and commentaries picking

[@jeffmoss26]

gotta love the GM sidebar :)

[@Potti314]

Yes, it's very effective against picking.

[@ChrisAhrensLHG]

This is the same design that kwikset smartkey went to in there generation 3. I have been discussing this gm lock with other pickers I have not had time to look at it personally thanks for this video very well explained

[@ChrisAhrensLHG]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fl6ckGadfraqhtk

[@Keymaster]

Chris Ahrens LHG I've seen your video and that was the first thing I thought too. But at the GM lock I don't see enough space to shim the sidebar.

[@Potti314]

Yes, it would work if you could access the side-bar from outside, but it's shielded by the handle. Other than drilling a hole in the front, I see no chance here.

[@bobbykeyz1263]

Thats why they have jigglers I believe. Great video Potti. 😎😎

[@Potti314]

Yes, I can imagine that try-out key work as the wafer mechanism itself it very easy to defeat.

[@dasmehlitier]

Interesting Lock. Never seen anything like that mechanism. And your intro music is the same music the hydraulic press channel uses :)

[@Potti314]

Was for me also the first time to see that mechanism, especially to find it in such an old lock like that was a surprise. The music is free to download from youtube. No surprise two channel use the same music accidentally.

[@TallanPick]

Great video again buddy, very interesting lock, I had heard about them but had not seen any inside. I recently got the opportunity to try to pick a chinesse padlock, with smily keyway and friendly appearance, that has this system (beleave me, I tryed hard but the little bastard doesn´t open). It´s owner tell me it has this system. Now I understand why I can´t picked. Anyway, as some people said, the jiggers must work in this lock ;O)) Thank you very much for showing it to us my friend ;o)) Cheers!

[@Potti314]

I can understand your frustration. When I started working on this lock I had no idea when I couldn't set the wafers and finally gave up to solve the puzzle. Only after inspecting the guts I understand the reason. But now we are prepared for the next lock that behaves strange in the same way. I sent the lock to 'Lock Noob' and he was successful in opening it with the jigglers. It's because of the bad tolerances that the try-out keys work. So it's not a high security locks - but it cannot be picked.

[@briangrant1798]

I have a GM ignition lock made like that, and I too have been unable to pick mine.

[@Potti314]

Have you tried auto-jigglers as many suggested? I have no such keys to try myself.

[@briangrant1798]

no, I don't have any either of those either

[@nickserafine6345]

If you twist the lock hard with a wrench is will turn and you never need a key again. Just ask my 1979 c10 truck. I was late for work and lost my keys.

[@matsteele6437]

Very cool lock, easiest way I've picked them is drill small hole to allow pick to slide in and tention. Hole can be repaired and good as new

[@Potti314]

Yes, I can imagine how that works, but it's a tiny bit destructive ;-)

[@stig..locks..r956]

very well demonstrated my friend and what an annoying lock thanks allot stiglocks..r

[@Potti314]

Haha, yes annoying from a pickers point of view but a great concept.

[@darthpaul123]

They don't make em like they used to! Neat lock.

[@Potti314]

Cheers - a fine old cool locking lock :-)

[@Priyer]

I’m actually going out on Friday to get some door and ignition locks to practice on, if I find a GM ignition lock I’ll try my hand on it and let you know.

[@Potti314]

Great - good luck and have fun.

[@user-xm1nq6oy3u]

Hi ! I have cylinder from Chevrolet Cruze, from door. Can't to pick him. Maybe he like your cylinder and have big problem to do it!!(?)

[@pyratemage]

What about something like the Rockout Keys from Sparrows? They have a Gridlock set of practice locks and you can add the Rockout Keys at a slight discount for a complete package.

[@pyratemage]

www.sparrowslockpicks.com/product_p/new6.htm

[@DarkWoodPicks]

Auto jigglers. And they'd work.

[@Potti314]

I'm not sure if rockout keys are the same as auto-jigglers. But if if goes in the direction of try-out keys it could work as the locking mechanism itself is made with very bad tolerances.

[@pyratemage]

Good question. I don't know where I would come up with a real GM lock but maybe a local junkyard might be willing to part with one or more. I'll have to see what it take to remove one from a vehicle. Some junkyards are self-serve. Once I have one in hand I'll see about the other end of the issue. :)

[@Jackcc5]

it definitely is pick able ive done one of these before locks before. simply mark out where the side bar is then drill a small hole though the casting. then poke a tool though the hole to tension the side bar at the same time applying turning pressure then rake the lock with a city rake it will open. you may also beable to drill a hole from the serfice to allow you to tension the side bar. the reason why i was picking one of these is the owner wanted keys made to his ignition he also had a drivers door lock as well.

[@Potti314]

I agree that this is possible. You tension the locking mechanism with that method and the bad precision makes this lock easy to open. But drilling a hole is kind of cheating and to some extend destructive. Also for me it would not be possible as I had no idea where the side bar is located in an arbitrary lock. Of course for a real application to get someone keys made, etc. the cheating aspect is irrelevant.

[@Jackcc5]

Potti314 its not cheating at all get the job done man. its not destructive its necessary the lock still works after drilling the hole if you wanna toy it and worry about drilling a small hole go head.

[@stagepyro]

It's all about the springs... Also the shape of the gates and the edges of the sidebar are important. Weak springs on the wafers and strong springs pushing the sidebar inwards would make this lock an easy pick... GM as well as the chinese Golden Atom found the right balance of 'springiness'.

[@Potti314]

Thanks for the info, I have not expected that to be such an interesting matter of optimization.

[@benjur666]

thanks

[@Potti314]

Glad it was helpful.

[@Staarker99]

The bypass is a screwdriver. You just put it between the petals and turn till the lock lug shears and the assembly is free turning.

[@Potti314]

Thanks, will have to test this next time I come across such kind of lock.

[@Leonslockpad]

Very cool my friend great info fun vid😎😎😎👍😊😊😊👍

[@Potti314]

Cheers and thanks for watching.

[@huxleypig69]

I seen a few tools for these old GM sidebar locks. Cool mechanism but not unpickable. Nothing is, sadly.

[@Potti314]

Yes, you can jiggle it open, or drill a hole to push on the sidebar.

[@JONSLOCKPICKING]

They special car picking tools that would open that fast . The ignition remains me of terminator the film I thinks its NO1 where Reece using his gun to bang around ignition . It looks the same lock. .I BE BACK.HA HA. Definitely 70s car lock tho. Regards Jon.....

[@Potti314]

Haha, cool correlation to that old movie. Yeah that lock looks really like belonging to the 70s - I love it. Remains me on a lot of old US TV series I watched when I was a young boy. Do you have these car picking tools? I would send the lock to you for testing.

[@soullessginger3117]

Just tells me that something inside triggers that slide piece to move maybe a blank key with a groove to slide the pick down I'll have to disassemble one and have a look

[@Potti314]

Let me know with what you come up. Good luck.

[@mywifesuksdik]

I'm sorry to say this gm ignition isn't unlockable. It's actually very pickable. I pick them every day. This lock has a side bar that makes it harder to pick. But if you tension the side bar you can pick the waffers

[@mywifesuksdik]

I dill a small hole in the face of the ignition exactly where the sidebar is and run a piece of bent wire into the drilled hole and I tension the side bar and I use a pick or or a B102 or B106 jiggle key to jiggle it open.

[@FusionDeveloper]

I have one of those also, and can't get any luck on picking it. It LOOKS so easy. I wasn't given the key, so I wasn't able to take it apart to see how it works, so this video is VERY useful. So couldn't you stick something in from the back to push on that sidebar, if the lock is disassembled like ours are?

[@Potti314]

The cutout for the side-bar does not extend to the end, hence it cannot be accessed from the back.

[@taser1984]

You do not need a key to disassemble it. The bit that retains the core can be removed in the locked position.

[@RAkers-tu1ey]

Interesting... so basically, any wafer lock could be made pick proof by means of a spring loaded side bar. I have removed a lot of these locks in my youth with a slide hammer. They "pull" pretty easily. (No, I wasn't a car thief... I was a mechanic working for a repo guy)

[@Potti314]

I can imagine that destructive entry is a good possibility to get into these locks. But I'm fascinated by the mechanism that completely eliminates the possibility of traditional picking. As 'Lock Picking Lawyer' pointed out, there exist a lot of modern locks that follow this concept.

[@paullucas2704]

I noticed a square inside the where the key goes if the key pushes that to the side when its put in you ahould be able to push that down to then work the waffers shouldn't you?

[@Potti314]

Oh, look like I'm not able to follow your explanation - sorry.

[@jakesworld37]

That's what rocker picks are for that make specific picks for those...

[@Potti314]

True, I sent this lock to Lock Noob and he demonstrated an opening with jiggler keys. But regular picking with a hook seems not to be possible.

[@randyaivaz3356]

Try jiggler keys, bet it would work. Opps, edit, I see others suggest as well. They also make GM Jigglers

[@Potti314]

Yes, I sent the lock to Lock Noob and he jiggled it open ;-)

[@RobCrawford23]

Would an overly attack work as that's the quickest way into many wafer based padlocks such as Yales

[@Potti314]

I tried an overlifting attack (is it that what you meant?), but you need to be able to tension the mechanism and release to let the wafers return. This does not work here.

[@martyhastings9347]

Good info. thanks

[@Potti314]

Cheers :-)

[@carlstafford6845]

and by the way it can be read to making key after picked

[@Potti314]

Can you share the link?

[@deronchopathe3791]

Interesting lock. The only solution seems to emulate the key: computer generating picks? ;)

[@Potti314]

Cheers :-) You mean try-out keys?

[@deronchopathe3791]

I was talking about stuff like this: img4.hostingpics.net/pics/938933computerpickscocolitos.jpg ;)

[@Potti314]

OK, I see. Do you think they work without being able to tension the locking mechanism? I can imagine that they work a bit like rakes - so they require tension. Right?

[@deronchopathe3791]

No, you do not use them as a rake: you insert it as a key and apply tension to test. You change angle and test. You change tool, and so on until opening.

[@Potti314]

OK, I see - thanks a lot for the explanation.

[@collomps]

Lost the keys of my 1988 Blazer. How can i do?

[@collomps]

Just picked this lock! Thanks for the video!

[@Potti314]

Good to read that you got it open - jiggler keys are the appropriate weapon for this mechanism.

[@collomps]

@@Potti314 Had to make a tiny hole (after removing the "ears" of this lock), to insert a pin and release the extra safety, and then porceed with picking.

[@matthewhenry2519]

You can pick it by using a thin peice of tin and shimming it by pushing the tin in around the inner barrel and over the part that needs to be depressed much like you would a padlock

[@Potti314]

Will try and see how this works when I come across a like lock like this again - thank you.

[@wyatthooten6149]

When i was thinking of going and picking my 90 chevy for fun also i lost the keys lol

[@Potti314]

Good luck.

[@johnrossell3201]

If you use the right picks it can be picked pretty easily

[@Potti314]

Yes, I learned that try-out keys can do the job ;-)

[@RAkers-tu1ey]

I do own a set of 30 jiggle keys, but I never had enough time to use them... 5 to 10 minutes to jiggle, 10 seconds to pull.

[@Potti314]

OK, these try-out keys can be pretty effective as I've heard. Pulling is too aggressive for these beautiful old lock ;-)

[@RAkers-tu1ey]

... well, when I was pulling them, they were irritating new locks, not beautiful old ones. I am hoping to become "Vintage" enough one day, so I can be appreciated far beyond my rightful status.

[@Chaddz3]

why pick this lock, just take the steering wheel and anti-theft locking ring and turn signal switch out... pull the lock cylinder and turn the ignition switch pinion with a needle nose.

[@Potti314]

"why pick this lock" - because this is a lockpicking channel ;-)

[@michaelsebourn3425]

wow joy riding video with prison sentance

[@Potti314]

Thanks for stopping by.

[@carlstafford6845]

this lock can be picked very easily

[@Potti314]

Let us know how. I know that jigglers work nicely.

[@powertvau]

Reason for gm/Ford change them locks to tibbe locks or side locks.. You can easy dip stick them with flat car oil stick. Done 20 cars at wreakers I'll upload how to pick locks with a dip stick click Like..

[@Potti314]

That sounds interesting. I'm subscribed and looking forward to the video.

[@powertvau]

Potti314 no problem I'll going to the wreakers this week I'll upload