PID Tuning Masterclass - Part 2 - D Term From Low To High

[@vision60s67]

Watching this 3 years old video demonstration is still so helpful! Jushua, love your fancy skirt :p

[@fpvbros6901]

lol was gonna say something about the skirt as well

[@oxgon]

the whole video I was wondering how you did such good voice over work, soon as I saw you talking into the camera while it's on the ground was amazed at the microphone quality. fantastic video.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I am wearing a ear-set mic and I have an H2N recorder in my pocket.

[@damedaE90]

Joshua Bardwell Josh, one question... Does ur mic on the copter need a additional circuit inbetween the Video Tx and the mic itself?

[@adrianantones4909]

for a begginer that haven't fly a quad , yet i still manage to understand the point. verygood tutorials keep it up more power sir Josh!!!

[@GadgetInspector]

I will refer to you as Professor Bardwell from now on.

[@spartanash1]

XD

[@edgarreyes4815]

He is so good teaching stuff, I actually enjoy learning from him.

[@DashzRight]

i just became patron , because as you said the value of the knowledge you spread is much worth than 1$ a month. Futhermore I would say the amount of money and time you make people to save has no price.

[@StacemanFPV]

Really enjoying these. I am actually starting to make some sense of this. Can't wait for a nice day to go out and just do some tuning sessions.

[@Medil30]

Alright i watched all these about 3 times and the black box videos twice. I am about to tune for my first time now that I have better weather here. Can you just let me know if I have close to right. 1. Lower D a bit and P. Then raise P till you get oscillation. 2. Then raise D till that oscillation goes away 3. Then Tune I to feel or where it is not moving. 4. Then when you feel everything is good you can raise p gain more to see if you like the feel better. I think it would be best for me to start with low settings to see whats happening when I increase things.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Mike R that's a good summary.

[@HerbsmanRevs]

Interesting stuff. Not sure I've ever seen so much D gain. Amazing that it takes it so well.

[@TibordeGoede]

Looking forward to your Masterclass on the I Term. Not much videos online about that part of PID tuning. For the rest. Good work Joshua!

[@quadcopter3603]

Haha 12:13 that's exactly what happend when i was frustrated because of seeing no difference and setting the D up to 500. Luckily I was able to disarm

[@zaniix11]

This is eye opening, I would never have gone that high with P or D as I was taught to keep P & D gain much lower, but now I need to see what happens if I bump P and D up much higher. time to experiment

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Zaniix_FPV time to experiment! My favorite phrase.

[@JasonMcIntosh876]

Thanks JB for another very helpful guide.

[@AndySevern]

Josh, this is a GREAT series.I'm re-tuning my quad later this week after switching to Blheli ESCs from my ANCIENT Turnigy Plush ones - so will be watching these a few times again! :) Keep it up. Oh, and on the boring subject of clothes, that's actually the first time I've seen you with your alternate attire - TBH I was more interested in the quads than the threads. You know what, I think it actually suits. I had to go back and watch your video on the topic 'cos I though you'd gone all Scottish on us! Dare to be different - only the BRAVE show their true selves.... and not everyone can pull that look off.

[@adamkelly6264]

Dude puts on a literal masterclass for PID tuning, gronks still ask what he's wearing. smdh

[@rarespaul9503]

Outstanding video and nice dress

[@bradleyhirst4019]

Dude love the vids but are you really wearing a sun dress lol. Looks freeing and refreshing. Keep up the cool and informative vids I've learned almost everything I know from these vids. Thanks a million

[@rollins360]

Josh my new build has the SpeedyBee f7 v2 With the motors XINGS 2207 1800kv seems like it’s having a hard time lifting up and left shop but it feels like there’s a lot of weight. I haven’t messed with a PID’s yet.

[@BMathiesen]

Joshua you need to make your kwad build shirt available in a hoodie! Or just some type of cool ass hoodie! I need to represent my community, my hobby and an idol of mine Joshua haha!

[@skyweaver3199]

Professor Bardwell...Is that a Kilt you were wearing?

[@chemistt]

You were saying something bad will happen with high D values (Ive commented in previous videos about I like the strapped tunning cus I am paranoid). Well what happened to me is on old CC3D mini F1 board - after arm it was OK but as you added Thr and moved a hair to roll, quad started to SWING it self till it flipped and then it smashed anything in its way (I have a scar). It is small tarot 200 but it is a rocket. As far as I could understand - what happened was it got stuck in D loop and just "snowballed" till it flown 100% on some motors. It was happening because of new cleanflight that was somehow creating an error on chip. If I am wrong, Ill be happy understand.

[@doktordrone]

thank you very much, JB :)

[@shawnhannah3320]

hey Josh I sunday I was flying and my diatone tyrant video was great until I took off then I lost signal at less than 20 yards. so yesterday I attempted to fly my Thrust Riot and it did the exact same thing not complete signal loss just terrible quality have you had this before ? thanks a ton your the best

[@danielpassmore5026]

Shawn Hannah sounds like it almost has to be your transmitter. Do a range test. How do you like your riot? I love mine.

[@rogue-tr]

Shawn Hannah I'm guessing you mean video signal ... and with two separate VTXs it's unlikely they're both faulty unless you cooked them with no antenna or sitting still with battery in for too long. Some cheaper VTXs are more predictable at failing. Otherwise a weak battery or antenna on your goggles might cause it. Also, if you continually fly in the same location, scan the frequencies if you can and make sure you're not overlapping. One location I fly at has limited distance due to an audio/video transmitter for pay TV at the RSL near by. Generally it's fuzz but occasionally I get the boxing :S

[@LeVsTerFpv]

Hey JB i just got a whoop bnf with around 47g with a 550mah battery to be exact it is the Whoopfly16 by sub 250 and thats the pid's for it. It came that way thats their cli. Isn't that to high D-Gain especially. It is both high 90 and over 100. Can you help me. I pretty new in the hobby looks to me they want to sell more motors that way because all beginners like me won't notice and burn out their motors. Whats the deal here do you have any guidance? set p_pitch = 80 set i_pitch = 143 set d_pitch = 103 set f_pitch = 142 set p_roll = 76 set i_roll = 136 set d_roll = 91 set f_roll = 136 set p_yaw = 76 set i_yaw = 136 set d_yaw = 0 set f_yaw = 136

[@TheCoreys]

Is this skirt common on men in the US?

[@shatterpointgames]

No just him

[@MadMarcWinnipeg]

Thanx Joshua. 👍😊 I got my first programmable fc the other day for my tiny whoop. So now I'm getting my hands dirty. A beecore f3 evo. Questions: - What are good pid gain values to start tuning with on a brushed fc like the beecore ? - What is the best silicone wire to use on small 1S batteries (replacing connectors) and for power to the flight controller? (bottle necks in mind, also weight and flexibility) Thanx Joshua

[@roscofpv2357]

@Josh, You really learned to land since your last "PID TUNING" videos. :)

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+RoscoFPV nah, this is always how I land.

[@BenjaminKing1]

need more!! (I can't wait another day haha)

[@aw8one]

Just did a rebuild 2207 five s copter. Stock pids roll seems to have all the aighna of to much d term motors are extremely hot mostly the rear ones. Always seems like to much d term but stock pids seems a bit strange.

[@shawnhannah3320]

yes Daniel the Thrust Riot 250 is amazing just got to figure out what's up with my goggles assuming module at this point

[@alexgri7625]

Hello Joshua! Thank you for your video. Very informative and helps to understand the settings kvadrocoptera. One request in this video does not work subtitles. Please correct.

[@Alex360Videos]

good vid josh, very helpful. you know a lot about pids haha

[@ChinesFPV]

Are you wearing a skirt? Thanks for this series because I have been struggling with PID for some time.

[@2whitedudes442]

+1 on if that is a skirt.

[@uavr1286]

Dressing gown/bath robe?

[@GibsonLesPaul2273]

Im wondering if all this wobbling is down to balance cos I have an unusual racing quad (camera mounted on top with a servo) and I get no osculations at all, I can descend in my wake with zero wobble, no wobbling on sharp turns flips and rolls and its default PID settings.

[@rogue-tr]

That's good stuff, exactly what I wanted to know. Greatly appreciated.

[@PilotPlater]

Looks like u have a bottom mount battery in this video. Why did the industry move away from bottom mount batteries? Almost never see it now

[@kenaidiaz8009]

Should I put on slightly damaged props or brand new ones when I tune my quad?

[@megaeniotna]

''Warm motors are normal, Hot motors are abnormal'' for those who were wondering. You can pinched warm motors and hold your fingers there compared to You want to take your fingers off when a motor is hot.

[@mmusic9194]

This is with engine breaking on?

[@mike216ism]

It took me a while before I could even wonder about PID and now I'm there Thanks so much for your along my journey. I have a PID question. I put a xt30 on my tinyhawk s. I only use 2s batteries for it . Now when I run fully charged batteries for the first 5 seconds or so the throttle is really erratic. As soon as some of the battery is drained it calms down and stops correcting itself so much. Which PID tune could cause this erratic throttle jerk? Thanks for any help

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I would try lowering P gain I think. Maybe D gain.

[@mike216ism]

@@JoshuaBardwell thanks so much for your help. I appreciate the knowledge you pass on when I get home I want to contribute as it would be nice if many did

[@mike216ism]

@@JoshuaBardwell should I lower by single digits or maybe 10 or more? These PID are extremely complex to me . Rates I get but PID are taking me some time to grasp

[@mike216ism]

@@JoshuaBardwell I would like to thank you very much. I ended up lowering p gains from 80 across pitch and roll 18 each. From 80 to 62. I lowered D 60 to 55 across pitch and roll. I tried raising feed forward from 70,70,80 to 90,90,100. It feels like a different quad. I was crashing a lot and besides that erratic throttle for the first 10 seconds or so of flying I just assumed I needed to get better. It feels like a way different quad and I'm flying way, way better. I can't thank you enough for your suggestions. It's crazy just changing to a xt30 would have to have me change my PID on this tinyhawk s. I really love this quad

[@Reecefpv]

My prob is when I drop throttle after a punch out in wants to flip forward and I'm trying to correct instead of whatever trick I had planned to do

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Make sure Air Mode is enabled to keep orientation when you drop throttle.

[@Reecefpv]

@@JoshuaBardwell airmode is on I'm gonna do some tuning u covered my prob on part 4 at least I think it is your was dipping the same way

[@Neon8787]

I got a Wizard X220, but the gyro is kinda bad and I seem to get a lot of vibration in the frame. The default tune on BF 3.1 gives crazy oscillations at high throttle. O rings and your videos are really helping me try to tune around the problem! Thank you so much!

[@BetterIntegra]

Put the TPA breakpoint at 1790. and the TPA at .22 that is for the full throttle punchouts. Here is my full setup( a good start for you) Wizard x220(2205 motors) - 4s liPo - XSOUL 5040 V2 props. Betaflight 3.1.5 Pgain [roll 47] [pitch 60] [yaw 79] Igain [roll 41] [pitch 49] [yaw 45] Dgain [roll 23] [pitch 24] Throttle MID [ 0.44] TPA Breakpoint [TPA 0.22] [Breakpoint 1790] My Rates - RC rate [p/r 1.25] [sr 0.75] Expo [ 0.23] - [ yaw 1.20] [sr 0.65] Expo [ 0.20]

[@Neon8787]

Thanks!! I'll give your setting a go this weekend!

[@Neon8787]

I must have read your PIDs wrong and ended up with 79/45 for my D gain on Roll and Pitch!! It was ridiculous, but my own fault. Your changes to TPA Breakpoint really helped, I think. :) Thank you!

[@BetterIntegra]

haha, sry it might have been a little confusing the way i wrote it. I increased my tpa to .24. but it still wiggles a little. I may go to .26

[@saltvatten]

Hi Joshua. Love your channel. So much great info. Could you please explain why a high D term could cause hot motors?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+saltvatten d term amplifies vibration. When D is too high it creates a feedback loop. D term tries to make the motors respond to the amplified vibration, which creates more vibration. The motors can't move as fast as they are getting asked to move, and heat results.

[@saltvatten]

Hi, thanks for fast response. Does this differ in any way from hot motors due to high P term oscillations? I mean motors get hot due to high power output regardles of whats causing it, right?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+saltvatten no. P term oscillation is slow enough that the motors can keep up. It will only make the motors hot if they are overpropped. D term is too fast for the motors to keep up. It's like rubbing your hands together slowly vs really fast. Really fast makes them hot.

[@saltvatten]

Oh I see. So the motor output from the FC changes too much too rapidly. Could this also hurt the ESCs due to higher back EMFs from the motors?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+saltvatten it can cause desync. It shouldn't damage the ESC's though.

[@ProppedNutFPV]

It's a Sarong. Other names in eastern cultures Veshti or Mundu.. by the way thank you Joshua for this video. Only being in the hobby since mid summer of last year the information you're passing on is clicking. Could you please touch on rates as well. So we can get a better understanding on the correlation between PIDs and rates?

[@joseluisg.r.7055]

Very good videos Joshua. In Spain we hope you subtitle videos in Spanish or English to understand everything. Thank you.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

You can submit subtitles to any of my videos and I will approve them. www.wikihow.com/Contribute-Subtitles-to-Someone-Else's-KZbin-Video

[@AlvinYeoh]

How do you define a hot motor?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

At the very least, you should be able to pinch it with your fingers without it being painfully hot. But really, most modern motors are not very over-taxed, so if at any point, the motor crosses over from warm to hot, I would be suspicious of the tune. If you have been doing full throttle 100 mph drag strip runs, then that's a different story, but for normal flight, I would expect the motors to be no more than warm under most conditions.

[@TheHeliman9]

I have a basic knowledge of betaflight I can set up install and get my Quadcopter flying but understanding the terms and what they do is a little bit in the gray area as I have not seen anything on betaflight Wiki if there is any links to any one explaining what these are that would be helpful thanks and you have awesome videos

[@henshaw7]

umm whats with the dress !?

[@pivoglotik]

Link at the end of video leads to part 1. Should be part 3.

[@jefefpv1695]

I have been flying an F3 chip with standard blheli and oneshot125 on my xHover. I recently built an Alien RR5 and I am running an F4 chip with 8k/8k DSHOT600 using FVT Littlebee Spring dshot ESCs. With default BF PIDs in 3.1.6 I noticed all four motors were equally warm but not hot. I cannot fly every day so my next chance will be Friday so I can finish my tune. I noticed most of the time you comment that your motors are cool. Just wondering if warm motors are normal as well? I am running the Lumenier 2206-11 with the proper screws and the ESCs are insulated from the frame.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Jeff C warm motors can be normal. Remember it's winter here. That affects it.

[@jefefpv1695]

Thanks for the quick response.

[@tchthsky]

What do "hot" motors equate to in degrees fahrenheit? Thanks.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Let's say 60 C at most.

[@brianbutcher7409]

Hi Josh This video is very helpful, I am wondering if you have ever seen a flight controller run away (keep rolling when control input is released) caused from bad PID tuning. I just re-used a flight controller Betaflight F3 AIO running d-shot 600 in a new build, it was working fine in the original frame. It flys amazing motors are warm but not hot but once in a while I will do a fast roll and it does not come out of it when I remove the roll command, it keeps rolling, I can hear the motors winding up and down gently and rolls real smooth all the way to the ground. Had anything like this happened to you????? BTW I was using stock PIDs and then reduced all PID values by 10 points and problem is better but now I get a big bounce at the end of my rolls.

[@LarsFPV1]

Why do I still have a lot of bounce back

[@yalmadiable]

Hi josh Would that PID tuning procedure good to use for quads that used for inspection for example? I was thinking in the video about keep raising D gain but what it look like if you lower P to 60 and kept D on 20?

[@slothFPV]

If i have really slow bounceback on flips and rolls what is that? D is getting kinda high as is P

[@tannerbeard2840]

Ive never tuned D beyond 25...

[@strattonford2557]

HE'S WEARING A KILT I LOVE IT

[@beardedalienfpv1294]

I think thats an Egyptian robe lmao

[@iameliop194]

hahahhahha that's crazy

[@madforit9661]

Yet another good video Can i ask what batteries your useing Thanks

[@kellyullrich]

Seemed like your battery is weak. I heard Taranis squawking after throttle punches.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Kelly Ullrich all batteries get low if you run them down. How do you know how long I was flying for?

[@kellyullrich]

True. I assumed you put in fresh before beginning each test run. My cheaper batteries sag from the start.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Kelly Ullrich no, not at all. I flew each pack until it was done then out a new one on.

[@nickelindgren]

Great video! This will help me alot!

[@MrCarter24]

what should I adjust to fix mid throttle oscillations, it's a new quad and I can see oscillations when Cruising around.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJWoYnWfmbKqhLc

[@schumata3356]

Another good one

[@dcfpv5608]

How hot is too hot for the motors? I have my D gain at 30 for both pitch and roll and I can feel my motors are warm but I wouldn't say they are hot. Also, does the D setpoint weight and transition sliders cause any extra heat depending on what they are set at?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+DC FpV higher setpoint can cause a bit more heat due to D term kick. If your motors are warm but not hot, you're fine.

[@dcfpv5608]

Joshua Bardwell Thank you!

[@frinky]

DC FpV If it's to hot for your fingers. It's to hot for the motor

[@fsfpv3524]

Hey Joshua, great video (as always ;) ) I have two issues :/ 1st I cant "save my log to file" from onboard flash (newest config and BF fw) and 2nd I have a little bounce when doing a hard roll to the right and sometimes when flipping back. But its not really a bounce, its like the copter stops to early and wants to correct it, so that the end of the flip/roll looks unsmooth. I already played around with my D values but it is always there :/ Also I played with the D setpoint weight/transition but it doesn't help very much. The strange move is still there. S any idea whats my problem? And why cant I save my logs from the FC to my PC lol Otherwise I would have send you a BB log. Thank you! (FC is SPF3- Aikon SEFM 30A DShot300 - EMAX RS2205(not S))(Motors get hand-warm, not hot, and my Setup is not very noisy)

[@JoshuaBardwell]

You have tried everything I would suggest. You can try adjusting P and D to minimize the effect. Remember also that you can move the sticks more smoothly to reduce or eliminate it.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

So turn off the notch filters then?

[@fsfpv3524]

That's what I want to try tomorrow. Had the same idea a few hours ago, thank you! Let's see if that will work

[@fsfpv3524]

I can't solve it -.- And I can't get the answer why it is withour a BB log I think, but if I want to save the file, no window opens where I want to save the log or anything. I tried it with 2 pcs, both don't save the log :/ But it must be an issue from 3.1.6 because with 3.0.0 (on an other quad) I can save the log.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+FS_FPV of you this you've found a big, open a github. Issue.

[@yannik.d]

Hey Josh, great videos so far! My motors getting really hot with a d value of 10 (kiss fc), even after 10seconds of hovering... i cant get a good tune with that low d gain. Is there any way to get at higher numbers without destroying anything? Soft-Mounting Fc/Motors to get less noise on the gyro?

[@bostoner4029]

Yannik Deiglmayr I don't think the kiss and beta flight numbers are the same. I always see whole values on beta flight which I believe he's using. kiss I always see decimals. so 10 would be way too high.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

If you can't raise D gain without getting hot motors, then you need to reduce vibration.

[@sxdev]

Kiss D is default 10 it´s not super high but satisfies most steele who is more likely to overtune is around 11-15 with 10 my motors come down cold I think the problem is somewhere else

[@bostoner4029]

Chris S. true. yeah I don't use kiss but just thought he was comparing his numbers to the 90 Joshua put in. also depends on your p whether 10 is high for d or not though.

[@yannik.d]

Flying Sawblade king kong 5x4x3 - but got the same issue with the hq 5x4x3 and the racecraft 5x4.2x3... a d gain of 10 is the kiss Stock value - should Not be too high. the p and i Term should be decimal (3.1 and 0.40 in my chase)... any other tipps? Guess ill Jump on the soft-mount-motors hype train cause fc is already soft mounted. thanks josh!

[@humbertocortes68]

In what place of beta flight u hubicate the third value of ur. Numberd... I not speak English so well... I listen :T gain... Is the rate valuenumber? Or superate valuenumber? Sorry if im missed. Thanks in advance...

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Humberto Cortes sorry I don't understand

[@humbertocortes68]

Thank you for answering me ... Congratulations for your hard work and for sharing ... I see that we are several passionate about learning this hobby thoroughly and not settle for a little .. Je. I am starting and my question is the third column of numbers that you. Varies and changes the value ... to which numerical data corresponds in the PID setting of betaflight ... Thanks

[@plainuser48596]

Wouldn't some of the propwash be caused by yaw not being tuned? I got the impression there that it actually did oscillate on the yaw axis during sharp turns - but I'm inexperienced.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+z p gain on yaw is not low enough to get sloppy nor high enough to encourage propwash oscillation.

[@vegardkt]

Question: Why excactly does the D gain warm up/damage your motors?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

The D term is proportional to rate-of-change in the gyro or error. This means that if the gyro is noise, the D term is exponentially more noisy. So the D term amplifies high-frequency noise from the gyro. Basically, the D term is trying to make the motors speed up and slow down far too quickly for them to actually do it, and that electrical energy turns to heat instead of to mechanical motion.

[@vegardkt]

Perfect! Thank you

[@MojoPapiFPV]

At what point and how do you address Yaw D? I usually do full yaw LOS and bump it up until it stops jumping but not sure if this is the best strategy.

[@ontariodoublex2713]

Hey would u know why when I drop the throttle low my quad starts to fall at an angle not flat ofc with motor idle on

[@alexandresimard3585]

everythingRC Everything rc watch the video about I term 😉

[@ontariodoublex2713]

@@alexandresimard3585 still couldn't find anything to help tune that????

[@ontariodoublex2713]

@@alexandresimard3585 seems like I cant find anything on how to tune "nose hold"

[@alexandresimard3585]

Raising Your I term on the pitch axis will help with stability

[@ontariodoublex2713]

@@alexandresimard3585 thanks for the help but cant find anything in I term that says anything about pitch

[@metazootet1492]

Still so hard to understand..... :(

[@platty9237]

Phuong Ho it may help to experiment with these settings in a simulator like velocidrone or liftoff. That way you can test them yourself. Some additional steps are mentioned on this other web page oscarliang.com/quadcopter-pid-explained-tuning/ I think bardwells videos show the effects really well, but if you need some more info or suggestions on the actual process of elimination, the link might help.

[@robbinkoot2154]

My 2 inch keeps pitching back (or wobbling) after a dive. What I've to do?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Some things that help with this are... Switch to props out rotation instead of props in (also known as reversed prop direction) Raise D gain to reduce propwash. Raise I gain.

[@wyyaly]

My quad(CC3D+ZMR250)has a strong oscillation when hovering with a low P and D gain, with PID roll 20 40 15, pitch 20 35 15, I start to increase D gain up to 70 along with a little P gain up to 30, the oscillation by hovering and turing decreases but is never elimated. What should I do, should I continue increasing D gain or should I check the other parts?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

If you have oscillations in a hover, something is seriously wrong mechanically. Those PIDs are not extreme enough to cause any serious issues in a quad with no mechanical or electrical issues.

[@TheHeliman9]

and or do you know if anybody has made a video explaining what the terms mean and betaflight thanks and as always happy ripping

[@Gweniman]

On my wizard, I put the same pid that your tutorial... and when I putt over 50% trottle their are some vibrations on my quad... What should I do ? (Sorry for my bad english) thx for the answers !

[@JoshuaBardwell]

You cannot copy my PIDs to a completely different copter and expect the same results.

[@veit5256]

Is it normal that my copter needs 50-60 P-Term?

[@notkira_x]

yes

[@alexdij4025]

I assume you are running the T-motor F40 II 2400kv motors that you used in the build video? And you said you used the Strix Talon props but what size? Reason I ask is because on my quad (Emax RS2205S 2600kv on 5046 Dal Cyclone props) I am running P in the upper 30s (36 and 40) and I see you taking them up into the 80s yet I could never get mine that high. Is it possible that they are actually too low and need to come up past a certain point or is that just normal for a higher KV setup with heavy props?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Some people prefer lower P. How does it fly? You can do the same exercise I do here: raise P 10 points at a time and see how it changes.

[@alexdij4025]

Well I think it flys pretty good. Not particularly bad. However I just don't like prop wash oscillations and it seems when I raise P it just has too much oscillation for my liking. I mean I'll accept a reasonable amount of prop wash but whenever I use a higher P it just seems to oscillate. And I think the Blackbox data kinda backs that up. The gyro traces are very clean but the PIDs and motor outputs seem to have a lot of high frequency noise, i.e. ossilation but no matter how low I go with P it doesn't seem to go away.

[@saggynun1802]

since upgrading fto r4 returner 2300kv motors from rs2205 I've found they are usually warm on landing doesn't matter on 4s or 5s same warm. high pids lower pids, still same warm. not hot. but never nice and cold.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Well maybe they're just running warm. As long as they don't get hot, just fly.

[@psydafke]

Hi Josh, For a stretched X, wouldn't roll P gain typically be lower than pitch? I.e. on my Alien, Pitch P is also slightly higher bc of the more spread mass on that axis (I think). Looking forward to the next episodes in this series! Happy flying!

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Yes. I was just raising the values in lockstep for demonstration purposes.

[@airdronez4hire593]

are you able to tune in horizon mode, I am still learning how to fly in acro mode and not close to getting it, so I've been flying in horizon mode,

[@JoshuaBardwell]

You can't really tune in autoelvel mode if you can't fly in acro mode at all. Autolevel PID loop relies on acro PID loop so if the acro PID loop is badly tuned, the autolevel PID loop will also fly badly.

[@airdronez4hire593]

Joshua Bardwell thanks, I tried for the first time today to fly in Arco mode and picked it up, to my surprise. Thanks for sharing . Now I have a better understand how to tune my vortex 250

[@sayquanmoore6359]

Air Dronez 4 Hire bro just get out of horizon! It took made a day to learn acro it may vary but i recommend simulator its muscle mem n will give more confidence

[@kalliber]

HI Joshua, the preset pid from stock Cleanflight naze firmware 2.0.2 on my own build 250/naze32/ is unstable. I managed to get the I gain as low as 2 for roll and pitch and yaw untouched. quad is flying great but after some aggresive acro flying, and flicking back to angle mode, quad flips or tilts uncontrollable. (I want to flick to angle mode to sometimes save the quad from over rolling or pitching when I loose orientation) what could be the problem? thanks in advance, Omer

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I don't know, but if your I gain is 2, something is not right at all. 2 is way too low. I don't fly autolevel so I don't know a lot about tuning that. I do know that the accelerometer can sometimes lose orientation after aggressive moves. It sorts itself out in a short amount of time but if you flick to autolevel immediately after aggressive moves, the accelerometer may be confused. But I don't know what the fix is.

[@TheHeliman9]

is there a reference section or glossary section for the terms used in betaflight especially in the PID tab to help me better understand what each thing does thank you

[@JoshuaBardwell]

No, not really. :-(

[@ThePromptWizard2023]

This series is freakin' amazing bro. Wow you really needed high D to get that sound I have heard with the D in the low 40s. QUESTION sir! How does prop size, generally speaking, affect D? Do 6" props usually have lower D than 5" props? Also, how about motor size? Do 2205 and 2206 have lower or higher D, generally, than say 2207 or 2408?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Sadistic Leprechaun larger props spin up and down slower, so you need more D gain to get the same propwash handling. But larger props also make more noise so you may need to keep D gains lower.

[@DJPAKK1]

Joshua, is there a link to a video explaining how you are changing PID's in the field? Sorry about the newb question ;)

[@JoshuaBardwell]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKHRdICCot2gm5I

[@DJPAKK1]

thank you!

[@DJPAKK1]

thank you!!!

[@william_2233]

Should we have a lower d gain on yaw or is it just personal preference?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

There is no D term on yaw in Betaflight. Not since 3.0 or maybe even earlier.

[@MrJacobbbo2]

From your stick movements it seems like your rates are fairly low but the way the quad behaves it seems like they're high'is. Are they actually higher or lower than stock?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

My rate is about 1200 dps at full stick deflection on pitch and roll, and 800 dps on yaw. Bear in mind that the stick overlay is showing rcCommand, which is the stick input AFTER expo or s.rate curve is applied. In reality, my sticks are deflecting further than you see, especially when deflection is low.

[@SmokinMesa]

I'm still getting propwash oscillations on fast tight turns. Is it ever possible to tune these out completely or could vibrations through the gyro be the cause? I can't seem to tune them out with the PIDs

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+Smokin Mesa it's often not possible to completely tune out propwash oscillation.

[@Caileanrogers547]

I have the same problem

[@TheXboxBlaster]

Maybe try lower P?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

The point of this demonstration is not to derive a perfect tune, but to show the effect of the different PIDs.

[@TheXboxBlaster]

Thanks Joshua! What I meant is maybe with lower P the excessive D term oscilations would become more visible for high D. Anyway awesome videos, thanks :)

[@jamesk1619]

I think Jakub has a point.. Why not lower the P values to decrease the high freq oscillations that was a result of high P values like you mentioned in part 1? Seems like you're raising D values too high compensate for overly high P values. I get that this is a demo to show the effects of changing PIDs but this being a "Master Class", shouldn't it also demonstrate when/why you would lower PIDs?

[@kapparino]

What happens if you put P gain to 0 ?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Try it! P gain is very safe to play with. You might crash, but you won't burn up a motor or anything. Take off slowly and feel what happens.

[@StoneyGrooves]

Did there happen to be TPA on the tune? If so I think that could have reduced oscillation on the wide open throttle. Maybe you could do a video on a low vs high pid's and how tpa affects each one. Really enjoying the content you create.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+spurr nationfpv default TPA is 10%. That's what I used.

[@metazootet1492]

So once you get a good pid tune. Will you have to redo it on new motors?

[@bkmahaffey]

If you replace with the same motor then no. If you change KV or stator size most likely.

[@proxlamuz4591]

Awesome video! Thanks! BTW.. what are you wearing...

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Clothes.

[@dilonwalton1305]

lawl

[@colelandreneau304]

great series so far. Question, so when i start, I drop the P super low and D at zero. Do I leave I gains where they were at stock or what should i put them at. Thanks man, cant wait to go out and tune my "Ghettocopter" now.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

It is almost always the case that default P gains are lower than I will want, so I don't bother dropping them. You might want to lower I gains from defaults, but you can't know where I gain is going to end up until you get P dialed in.

[@colelandreneau304]

Thanks

[@madforit9661]

what batteries your useing Thanks

[@JoshuaBardwell]

+spooner Graham Infinity 1300 90C

[@madforit9661]

Cheers

[@divingfalconfpv4602]

My lightweight frame with excess vibration 😭

[@JC-zg2id]

What props are you using in this vid? King Kong 5x4's or 5x4x3?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

These are Strix "talon" props.

[@bruceheck9342]

How are you changing the pids in the field?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKHRdICCot2gm5I

[@damedaE90]

Bruce Heck Give KZbin a try.. Search for luascript taranis 😊

[@jonhoyles714]

most likely a feature of the OSD

[@jefefpv1695]

Bruce Heck I am running BF 3.1.6 on a Flip32 F4 Omnibus using BF OSD and it has on the ground PID running and in flight PID tuning.

[@bruceheck9342]

THANKS I'LL CHECK IT OUT.

[@MrHugs17]

Hi Joshua! I am getting vibrations when I drop the throttle to min (and a little video noise) on my 6" running 6045 triblades on a finx 40 2607 1500kv wraith 35 amp blheli32 set up. I assumed this was D term after watching this but I have bumped it up a bit with no improvement. Looks like it is something in the active braking. Any advice?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Can you show me an HD video fo the problem happening? Preferably with no background music just motors and wind :-) Email me the link because I might not see your comment here.

[@MrHugs17]

sent you a msg through Google messenger. thanks for checking it out. i expect some vibes on 6" props, but this seems like something different. big caps on the battery lead and the escs. the zmx finx 40s are giant motors.

[@MrHugs17]

i will post it here too... kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnamiZSslrxmZ7c

[@mkleespies78]

Hey new to tuning.... how much has this changed in the last 2 years... hope you see this lol

[@bkmahaffey]

Principles are the same. PIDS are PIDS. BF configurator has changed in how you tune. 10.7 you use sliders and you first find your P to D balance. Then raise or lower PD gain. But you can still use this method for sure. If your still out there wondering, JB has Several more tuning vids. Also check UAV Tech, He goes deep!!!

[@t-producciones5138]

This has been the most useful video on PIDs I have seen. Does anyone know where I can find written info on PID? I want to properly study this. Thank you in advanced.

[@surfmaxinbama]

half way thru pt.2!! lol!!!

[@FredoCorleone]

I still see some propwash oscillation at the end of the sharp turn. That is very annoying.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

BF 3.2 dynamic filter is even better at eliminating propwash, but getting rid of it 100% is still a challenge.

[@FredoCorleone]

Flying like in a simulator would be very cool! Do you think it is possible?