Start-Stall? Many Codes (Chevy HHR)

This 2010 Chevy HHR Ecotec starts up and immediately stalls.
Lots of codes stored on this one, so what is the fastest logical troubleshooting approach?
LAUNCH DIAGUN:
www.amazon.com...
DISCOUNT CODE to Sep 8, 2021: 10HXXQDB
Enjoy!
Ivan

[@edwardbelcher8612]

2.2 isn't a terrible engine but, they don't last long if you neglect them. Timing chain and tensioner won't tolerate low and or dirty oil for long. Amazing how many times a cheapo part will cause stuff like this to happen so, if it's worth doing it's worth doing correctly the first time. Good job on a quick diagnosis by unplugging the maf like that btw.

[@brainndamage]

Throttle body looks new too. Looks like parts cannon was fired. The quality of aftermarket parts is more often than not junk - from the factory in the east, shipped around the world on a boat, paid for by you, to be destined straight for the trash!

[@petersonanson4300]

When you said "EcoTech", I don't need to go any further with this.

[@petersonanson4300]

That's not what I meant. For your FYI I know family members that has cars with this type of engine. So I know what im talking about. So if you want to knuckle up we can.

[@chadcohoon8867]

@@petersonanson4300 lmfao internet tough guy

[@themechanic6117]

At first I thought it was going to be another classic HHR fuel leak right in front of the rear left wheel and it was stalling from low fuel pressure. Just had a HHR here for that

[@bills6946]

When I was a teenager a long time ago, before ECM BCM and MAF, replacing the fuel filter was the usual fix. I miss those days when you would open the hood and actually see the road under the car. Muscle cars ruled! (Mopar)

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

Ivan my MAF in my 2002 Buick 3.8 would run fine then act intermittently just like your little ecotech just did. It was a Standard ignition parts Blue Streak that lasted only a year. I used to use a lot of Standard Ignition parts over the years. I replaced it with the lifetime warranted part just to see if it was a fluke. I will test it against the original Hitachi that was factory. Thanks for the show and tell of back probing.

[@jimmyjimjims7483]

ECCPP is the brand name of that MAF sensor, they're garbage and most of the products they sell are cheap chinese clones that aren't specd like an OEM part, in these situations (sensors, evap stuff, fuel pumps, etc) absolutely have to be oem GM parts or they'll throw weird codes and go into limp mode. Out of every 5 parts they sell 2 are defective

[@markd9130]

Yep. I went through a lot of aftermarket MAF sensors on my 2.4L Malibu. Junk is at crisis levels.

[@somerandomguy3868]

Apart from always suspecting the connectors I'm good for getting direction by unplugging things, and it works most of the time, just have to remember to plug stuff back in

[@robertmoura6336]

Hi Ivan, I agree with you on aftermarket sensors in general are garbage, I use it last resort, just by disconnecting it shows a bad sensor, but when you said that pulling out pressure fuel gauge is not necessary I disagree with that, because you could also have the fuel pump on its way out on a short time and the customer think you changed the wrong part, even though the maf sensor is the problem it's best to check the pump and advise the customer. cover your back!

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

Good idea since it doesn't take that much time. I am still trying to get over this customer wanting to fix and flip an HHR with their terrible reputation. I am wondering if Ivan sensed this customer wanted to spend the absolute minimum for his fix and wanted to stop with a major fix? Just my $.02.

[@comeasyouare4545]

I bought three after market MAF's before I realized they were crap. Spend the extra money with a OEM and save the headaches.

[@moviemania1137]

Like the OE GM was any better.. Most GM parts are now made in China. I believe Eric O also mentioned AC Delco is now Chinese owned. 😒

[@ferrumignis]

@@moviemania1137 China is quite capable of manufacturing very high quality parts...when they have the budget and the quality control in place. They are also happy to make absolute garbage for the lowest possible price.

[@gregjones8501]

I figured it was gonna be a bad maf just from hearing it run. Good one tho Ivan!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yeah Greg, too bad it wasn't something more exciting haha

[@gregjones8501]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Hey man good for you! Easy money and another happy customer! Plus I need to get better at diagnosing start/stall situations and what pids to look at in those cases. Thanks nonetheless brother! Always a help when you post some knowledge!

[@timbo19751975]

Disconnect the maf to force the ecu to use a default value to prove engine mechaical condition.. oh you did 😉

[@agmc4me]

Yes Ivan is working on yet another car I own

[@baxrok2.]

Short and sweet. Thanks Ivan!

[@josecondemarin9586]

Great diagnostic procedure. After market parts are junk. Chinese part ugh... OEM always. Good video thanks 😊

[@canadatransistor]

MAF would be my first guess - just swapped mine this week on my cruze and fixed a ton of driveability issues. (Was wacky all summer when temps were hot) I caught the problem by doing volumetric efficiency test and found out it was the lower rpm range only that was whacky! I even noticed when slightly touching the throttle, the vacuum readings went up. (definitely not what I expected). Last bit of funny is my a/c now runs better now that my MAF is changed. Don't ask my why but it works great. LOL This would be an Ivan investigation.

[@FunnyMuffler]

Easy and quick to the point diagnosis, great video.

[@Flowtester1]

Man I just blew an engine in my 6.0 Silverado pickup and those codes he got was almost exactly the codes I got.

[@scottc8876]

Learned my lesson with a fuel pump waste of time putting it in. It ran but didn’t build pressure. Chinese parts are a plain ripoff.

[@dans_Learning_Curve]

Like #588 Thanks for the video! You're experience is showing! I thought fuel psi right away!

[@Jpilgrim30]

I’ve been having a lot of cars come in with junk aftermarket MAF sensors causing issues. They all seem to use those bright blue resistors and one of the two is a blue and white square. If you buy a MAF and it has that then take it back and get an OE sensor. The MAF is too critical to cheap out on. A lot of times it can run decently but still be causing a loss of performance that may not be really noticeable. BTW, What is with all of the junk aftermarket parts on the market these days? We seem to have way more parts failures than we used to.

[@willemstreutgers1154]

Well variable camtiming needs oil so with a low oil level seen on the dipstick first level up.

[@petermartinez5573]

Great job as usual Ivan. I have been going to the same mechanic for years but I'm about to find someone else. He absolutely refuses to use OEM parts even when I request them. Don't know why unless he is getting a kick back from his parts distributor.

[@themechanic6117]

That's weird .most mechanics want to use oem parts. Yeah something weird going on their . I'd go to someone else

[@awaara24]

This was a great video, but in the very beginning when the car was stalling I would've poured a can of brake clean down the intake to see if it was or wasn't a fuel delivery issue, guess I've been watching too much SMA ;) Then I would've started looking at scan data. But then again in hindsight, if this were a fuel pump issue, that would be a very peculiar type of failure that is able to start the vehicle every time but not let it run...

[@daveyio87]

When i first saw the symptom i thought maybe theft issue then when you gave it gas and kinda kept it alive i was thinking that p0011 code and that solenoid is causing the issue and thats where i would start. I'm going to watch the rest of the video to see if I was right!? Well I was wrong, but that would have been my next check to unplug the maf and see if i ran. I had a HHR towed in for a no start that the customer replaced the battery, starter, alternator and the range switch on the transmission. I found 2 faults. One looking at ecm data no ignition feed, that fuse was mising from the fuse block. Then looking at data the tcm showed vehicle in park/neutrual but the ecm showed in gear. jumped that wire to ground vehicle started. upon closer look the shift cable was broken and the range switch was loose.

[@nv1493]

Local auto parts and dealerships lose out on a lot of revenue from online. If it was close I'd get parts locally but they are ridiculously high. I buy only oem for critical parts and I buy them online whenever I can.

[@adotintheshark4848]

Don't forget to add about 5 quarts of clean fresh oil!

[@ReCkLeSsErr0r]

Oh no Ivan, an EcoTec!!! Run hahah.

[@knockywigglesworth1909]

GM or ACDelco MAF are usually just re-branded Hitachi parts.

[@weshawkins7165]

Just when I was sold on the ThinkTool pros you bring out the Launch.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Hah the ThinkTool is a powerhouse. The Launch comes out to play on the easy ones :)

[@adamtrombino106]

Who here thought the plastic air box/engine cover was cracked causing massive vacuum leaks and skewing the MAF reading? I've done several. Most would start, but had lean codes. 2 however did the exact start stall issue Ivan had. I believe there is a TSB on this, that covers several models.

[@Luke-san]

Cool CT70 poster in the background!

[@robertmedina6875]

Awesome video Ivan!!! I’ve been watching and looking forward to your new videos! Thanks again!

[@TheLoudmouthsoup]

You are awesome. Easy to follow and works

[@AutomotiveServiceExcellence]

don't worry on the performance, misfire and idle low codes for first check

[@timzauto]

Becareful,those also blow the EMS 1 fuse,which is the MAF sensor,just be aware.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

That's why I verified power and ground to the MAF :)

[@fmbfla]

Was the MAF installed backwards? It looked like a new one. Backwards on that stile will do the same as your results. Including thouse codes Looked like some one swapped it with the KOEO

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

Are there many maf's that you know of that can be installed backwards? I erroneously thought that was one of the things manufacturers would make sure was goof proof. Wow! I am stunned!

[@volvo09]

Will it go in backwards? That could certainly explain the low reading... but if it goes in backwards what a sh*t design! For a critical part like a MAF i'd feel more comfortable with an oem part anyways... Kind of drives me nuts when people swap out MAF, CMP, CKP sensors with $10 rubbish. Just asking for trouble when least convenient.

[@fmbfla]

@@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176 Yes it can DIY

[@fmbfla]

@@volvo09 Yes it can DIY

[@bradfaught1695]

I appriciate the old unplug it technique.

[@rmr5740]

I was expecting the "wings of death".

[@notsureigaf]

I prefer the Winged Wallet, where your money flies away never to be seen again.

[@bigdaddymak1439]

After you fix the parts cannon failure it's gonna need a timing chain set

[@rickwest2818]

And a piston/ring job to stop the oil burn that causes the timing chain failure.

[@michaeltrinidad1217]

Previously owned a 2011 Chevy HHR. Soon as it hit a hundred thousand miles it started falling apart. Speakers went out power door locks went out door handles replaced multiple times because they're made cheap brittle plastic. Finally transmission starting to fail. Got rid of it and got a Toyota.

[@notsureigaf]

It's uncanny how that thing sounds like the Buick Skylark my grandma bought in 1984... probably just as reliable too.

[@kevinhitchcock7062]

How does he know he is getting and OEM on eBay. There are a lot of counterfeit parts out there in GM Boxes.

[@-DC-]

Lots of counterfeit parts online for all Manufacturers if there is money to be made somebody somewhere is making a forgery.

[@36E5J]

Vehicle: 2010 Chevy HHR, 2.2L Ecotec Customer complaint: Car starts and stalls Diagnostics: 1) Scan for codes in engine control module - eight codes: P0011 Intake Camshaft Position (CMP) System Performance, P0014 Exhaust Camshaft Position (CMP) System Performance, P0101 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Performance, P0102 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Circuit Low Frequency, Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor Performance, P0113 Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor Circuit High Voltage, P0300 Engine Misfire Detected, P0506 Idle Speed Low 2) See if the car will stay running with accelerator input - not easily 3) View datastream to see what relevant sensors are reporting - found MAF reading 0.5 grams per second 4) Perform clear flood crank to see if timing sounds off - sounds normal when cranking 5) Unplug MAF see if default strategy improves behavior - car starts and runs 6) Check oil - dirty and low 7) MAF open circuit inputs - all values as expected (5 volts on signal, 0 volts on ground, 12 volts on ignition, 0 volts on IAT low reference, 5 volts on IAT signal) 8) MAF loaded circuit measurements - no loss of power/ground fidelity, scope reads 478 Hz when key on car off, agrees with datastream 9) Visually inspect MAF - looks clean, but not OEM Conclusion: Replace MAF sensor due to good inputs but low output

[@dznuttzonyachin7499]

Id like to be first in line when you open up an intern position 😁

[@SuperDd40]

Oh? I would have thought it was the MMCM (Make-up Mirror Control Module). I guess you can't win them all.

[@martinboucaud679]

as always great job. next time do a snap test like, Bernie Thompson.

[@leedress2187]

My buddy has a Silverado that had similar issues. Ended up being low oil.

[@sandybarnes887]

Ooooo what's in the boxes? Parts for an upcoming video?

[@awc7772000]

Most ecotec junk I’ve worked on was low on oil and running like poop

[@J_J_Ander]

Clutter on mass airflow sensor. I had same problem.

[@billziegmond4943]

Had an issue my HHR MAF sensor. It was caused by me forgetting to plug it back in! DUH!

[@ganeshnarayan5505]

Great video Ivan.

[@jimforsyth2.]

See that with Amazon MAF's all the time it hard to tell the customer that the 15$ part is 150 .

[@johnclamshellsp1969]

The GM Ecotec engine would have been a great engine if they used a double roller timing chain and a simple belt drive water pump.

[@khalidkfy7368]

Very nice work

[@bobbydelamar606]

30 seconds in I already wanna fire the parts cannon. 😂

[@paulkirkland1535]

Hi Ivan,are you also doing work on the Volvo truck in background? If you are the scanners you have won't hook up to it,you'll need a NEXIQ connector plus a special program on your laptop. In Toronto Canada the programs cost approx CA$1000 for each engine the truck may have. Just thought I'd pass this info on to you. Gr8 work and video stay safe.

[@yellowjacket3840]

replace both crank position sensors clean the MAF I should know I own this same model year and had the same issues fixed it easily

[@mayabartram5963]

My husband's car is doing this right now when it first started. I thought the engine died for good or the fule pump broke. we popped the hood to find the bracket to the air filter had broke and the air intake hose broke with it

[@jdtractorman7445]

I wish some car owners would not cheap out and buy aftermarket parts, he's going with AC Delco so he should be fine. Some of those aftermarket brands are just horrid.

[@agoodneighborautorepair2176]

Hi,it happened to me in a Chevrolet Tahoe, MAF sensor from e bay Chinese, don't waist you money,use OE OE sensor, everything is working good now,that sensors drop the 5v reference...

[@tomctutor]

Did you not just try cleaning MAF, might work worth a try, could be some insect in there clogging up the works and sensor might be reading correctly. I personally would check that the whole air intake path, filter etc was clean, clear and intact first before condemning the sensor.

[@williammize8270]

It runs without maf weird oil important because of vvt solenoid on these

[@jadenburns846]

Hey this might be a silly question but did we rule out a more mechanical failure like clogged cat or intake filter or does unplugging the maf tell you it can't be those two problems?

[@-DC-]

Unplugging the MAF force's the ECU to use a default setting it's a widely used trick to unplug it and see if it runs better.

[@bethwarrick3233]

It will run about 15 minutes when I first started up then it's real real hard to start like it's junk time until it like cool something off

[@zx8401ztv]

What an odd owner, you fnd the fault and he won't even buy the oem part to make it run perfect. It's odd that the copy parts never seem correct, they must have tested an original part to create a spec list and make a copy. Maybe the janitor wrote the spec list lol.

[@akhtarkh]

The customer is buying an oem part but online at half of the cost at dealer. Can't blame him.

[@akhtarkh]

Please check if MAF is installed backwards.

[@marcalan1198]

Notorious fuel pump failure behavior

[@fire7765]

Good job

[@williammize8270]

Maf sensor bad?

[@martyosborne3399]

A lot off topic but... how about an overall review of the Thinktool Pro?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Great idea! I'm doing an "Ivan's favorite scanners" video soon :)

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ivan could you talk about the ease of keeping the menu in a scanner? I saw a couple of reviews of the Launch Diagun that said that you have can easily lose your place and have to start all over which made them hate it. I have never seen you have that problem with that scanner. Thanks.

[@martyosborne3399]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Actually, I order one that I should get next week

[@Tomcatime]

What type of obd interface are you using with your smartphone??????

[@throttlebottle5906]

MAF, Mad Airflow Sensor. in this case lol.

[@Rein_Ciarfella]

I don’t need no stickin’ scanner! 😂 If I’m correct without even watching the video it’s the MAF and throttle body that need simple cleaning. While you’re at it replace the spark plugs and do an oil/filter and air filter change and you’ll be good to go.

[@bigdaddymak1439]

You forget the timing chains!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Rein_Ciarfella]

bigdaddymak1439 Nah, I’d only do that if it was a belt, and then let’s not forget water pump, tensioner, idler and seal on that end of the engine. Easy peasey! 😉👍😂🔧🧰🚗

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

@@Rein_Ciarfella You are enjoying yourself!

[@Rein_Ciarfella]

dogs plants cars & neat stuff 🙏😂

[@russelldaboss5835]

I have a 2008. Them codes mean nothing. These cars just throw codes out and more than not they are wrong. Last one I had was bad idle and stalling. Code was catalytic converter, shop said same thing. That was yr ago. All that was changed was the flex pipe on the exhaust. It was leaking exhaust.. not $1,375.00 catalytic converters here in California. Always something else other than the code

[@jerryallen5617]

What name brand scanner are you using?

[@aminmombini6882]

Hi ivan,vojld ou please tell me how can i determine ghe type of maf(analog or digital) when we're dealinv with a car that we don't have any info about it,and if it was digital how can i get to know it's pull up or down design,with considration of having no info or pin out of the car. Best wishes.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Scope it. Unplug sensor and measure voltage 👍

[@metrofarmer913]

Probably the air filter . Changed the one on the wife's a few years ago. Half day job. Cheers

[@byrd203]

I would have turn key on off on off on off and check pressure from tank and engine PSI

[@rrmech11]

👍👍

[@fredflintstone4715]

How do you find out who actually makes the OEM parts? Got an older Ford Ranger and want to replace the oxygen sensors and MAF with OEM, as aftermarket ones don't like to last very long...

[@konstantindufnik696]

Motorcraft, you can buy them from rockauto.

[@richardcoleman9645]

Can I vote cam shaft sensor only watching the first 3 minutes of the video? Exactly like diesel schools feel like it runs out of fuel the cam sensor quit working.

[@richardcoleman9645]

Ok, I was wrong. Maf sensor seems to work the same way. Starts and acts like it runs out of gas. Not the first time I missed it. Lol

[@neilmurphy845]

My guess is that somebody was messing with that maff secor

[@TheThreeLeggedChair]

crazy how many cars can be fixed just by putting factory settings parts.....

[@neilmurphy845]

Cheap aftermarket parts strikes again I don't know why people mess or even bother with them kind of part's

[@andyklove]

it's what i drive a heritage high roof 2009 with 216K on it

[@hermanrogers1325]

I would start with the fuel filter

[@mikeguiggey2586]

still like that diagunV..

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

Do you have one and do you like it? I am considering it or larger Launch 431 V+. Like to hear your feedback.

[@mattcat231]

@@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176 I have the Launch v431 Pro, (the 8" tablet version) and I can tell you it's GREAT, it is slow on the one 07 Jetta eurotrash car i work on, and sometimes can be finicky with auto reading the VINS on 96-99 vehicles, but if you have any questions about it, post here and ill comment back

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

@@mattcat231 Thanks Matt. Did you get yours from Amazon or an American Dealer? Have you used it on GM or Ford cars or trucks? Can you save your readings like if you wanted to run a sensor like a MAF for a couple of minutes could you save the image on a memory card. I am thinking of getting one and recording many of my sensors when they are running good as a basis for a future reference when it breaks down if that is possible.

[@mattcat231]

@@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176 i got mine through Autozone, i have heard enough horror stories about some of the knockoffs. Go with Launch direct or through KingBolen. But yes, i probably have scanned 27 GM trucks and 54 Ford trucks, i will have to see if i can record live data, but i know i can do screenshots, and it saves vehicle history with codes it had. I also upgraded mine myself with a 128gig SD card and drilled an access to the headphone port on it. You can also get a plug in or wifi camera to use with it (handy for looking at garbage Triton motor spark plug hole threads)

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

@@mattcat231 Thanks. I thought of the Diagun through Kingbolen a while back. Thanks for thinking about recording the data. I was thinking about doing an array of all sensors something like Ivan does with his Snapon Verus for future comparisons. Matt I just got a dedicated 5 inch HD color ips screen duel lens endoscope for looking at engine and house stuff for $110. Beats the heck out of my name brand general boroscope that I bought 5 years ago for $300. Now with coupon it is $100 on Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/B08T9HVTRM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details. For that price why hook it up to the scanner? Take a look if you're interested. The duel view is amazing in color even for my 69 year old eyes that need lots of light. Have a great day.

[@preston963]

Where would I start UMM... A Gallon of petrol & a match!

[@lazlopez3879]

Ivan do you work on diesel 18 wheel engine

[@-DC-]

OEM or don't bother these days can't trust anything aftermarket .

[@johnriley7053]

Ivan do you have a wifi Hotspot to get internet access to the scanner in the field?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I just use my phone when necessary 👍

[@Qusin111]

all the cheep ebay sensors are failing

[@kevin9c1]

Hey Ivan, could use a consult on flashing a firmware update on the amplifier module on my wife's 08 Cadillac SRX. I have a clone Tech 2 and bought the recommended Tripp Lite USB to serial converter. I also bought the $40 subscription for 24 months. I CANNOT successfully reprogram the module. It will not complete. It fails at random times and I have tried everything. I am out of ideas and ready to take it to the dealer!! Any ideas? In RI....

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Use Tech2WIN with an approved pass through. Remember the Astra from Hell? Tech 2 clones are often junk.

[@kevin9c1]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Thanks. Any tips on a cost effective pass through (I assume this means an MDI module)? Any luck with the clones of those? Heard the VCX Nano can be finicky.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@kevin9c1 I use the Bosch MasterTech M-VCI. It's discontinued, but if you can find one it works flawlessly.

[@kevin9c1]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I got a clone MDI. I got thrown off though because I didn't need Tech2Win for this! But I chalk the $55 spent as a learning experience since I did have some issues getting it up and running. 4 part video series begins here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZPGhKuiqr9sla8

[@donnierobertson3088]

Ok

[@jackwood8307]

👍

[@mikechiodetti4482]

Junk aftermarket parts. Not always, but in this case, that part's junk!

[@mattrobins4973]

I'd clean the maf and see what happens.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Absolutely nothing...would be equivalent to polishing a turn lol

[@_RiseAgainst]

Me when Ivan likes my comment😁 Me when I realize he likes everyone else's😢

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thanks for the comment! :)

[@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176]

Many creators say they read their comments on their videos but I think he does. You got the double whammy! He gave you the comment too. PS Several of us have asked him to do another scanner review and he said in this video's comments he will. He does read them.

[@_RiseAgainst]

I know he does. He is my favorite along with regular car reviews. I don't mind the Bro channels where they V8 swap a segway, but...

[@hifiman4562]

I wonder if Scotty is looking at that stupid engine beauty cover. 😄

[@sumduma55]

That beauty cover is actually part of the intake. It's sort of a reverse plenum. It allows a reservoir of unrestricted or less restricted air to aid in accelerating engine speed before the air filter places a restriction on it. I know it sounds illogical because if thr engine is running, the intake air is alway restricted by the air filter. But because air is compressible, it stores a large volume that can be decompressed slightly to make the process of increasing air intake volume a smoother transition giving the appearance of more or better throttle response in smaller engines.