Customer Replaces Alternator EVERY YEAR?? - (Hyundai "Smart" Charging - Part 2)

[@agmc4me]

Ivan cares about the customer total opposite compared to most shops. I really notice Ivan's attention to detail and his thorough work. Great job 👍

[@mikefoehr235]

Truth ✅️👍

[@Franz_giblet]

Definitely he’s doing a great service for these people, correctly diagnosing and repairing their vehicles and saving them a lot of money. It’s shame there aren’t a lot more people like him.

[@neilmurphy845]

@@Franz_giblet Yes I love how his montoe is fix it with no parts required .

[@GRIZYBAER]

Ivan is the best, love the technical diagnosis, the process of proving the problem and retest after each change

[@michaelgleason4791]

He's also not a shop. This is his business. He doesn't have 5 brake jobs and 3 tire jobs and 8 alignments and 6 ABS codes and, and, and to get through.

[@mikefoehr235]

You know Ivan saving someone hundreds of dollars because of absolute tenacity in diagnosing a problem correctly. Man, you don't know how much it means for someone that is on a budget and cash is tight. We have all been there at some point in our lives. When your career is done because of age, MANY people will be suffering a huge loss. You know Scotty talks often about shady repair techs...you are a huge breath of fresh air. Your honesty is off the charts. The world needs more honest people like you.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I was in grad school years ago on a very tight budget so I know the pain haha

[@robarnt6]

Even if money were no object, the vehicle STILL would never have gotten fixed.

[@lvsqcsl]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I would say the way you run your business now is on a tight budget. I love it!

[@wernerdanler2742]

Say it ain't so. Ivan will go on forever! 😆 🤣

[@111-c7x2t]

Hey Mike So you are saying there are no mechanics comparable to him and the honest great mechanics will seize to exist when he retires? what a bunch of @#$@

[@JohnnieBravo1]

this kind of stuff is exactly why I watch this channel. The in-depth diagnosis is what gets me excited, being an old retired guy, filling my time with diagnosing and repairing cars and motorcycles (most of which are old and that belong to me). Having run an engineering company for many years, and having a bunch of electronic test tools, this keeps me going. ALWAYS look forward to a brain twister from Ivan. NOW, I have an 89 Toronado Trofeo I bought new, now with electronics issues. So I'm trying to learn these diagnostics techniques to try and diagnose that and get that puppy back on the road.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Sounds like a cool car!

[@davyarthurs]

Well done Ivan 🥇. Once you found the bad battery ground, I’m sorry I was not surprised the alternator was actually OK. Smart systems aren’t so smart when they’re fed duff info! 😂

[@colchronic]

Honestly this diagnosis was fantastic I would have never guessed that I would have just replaced the alternator and assumed it was just a bad reman alternator

[@kennethbode2017]

about 45 years ago a guy who specialized in auto electrical issues told us when troubleshooting voltage issues to let our fingers do the walking, basically find the hot spot. It still works today.

[@alexanderzubar9593]

Great tenacity in the diag and digging for root cause. Comment about relying on bolt threads for current transfer: The surface area of the terminal is the intended current path rather than the threads because the surface area is larger and the materials are intended for current flow. UL labs requirements on Electrical connections specify this and i found it’s a good practice on cars especially in the “rust belt” where moisture and corrosion creeps into threaded joints. Sanding all mating contact surfaces clean as well as using corrosion Juice makes for long term repairs. Love your diagnostic logic.

[@alandawson3345]

I used to work at a Kia dealership here in the UK (2000-2016), they used to earth the battery to the shell only, without a dedicated cable to the engine. The engine was earthed to the chassis. The earth bolt on the battery to chassis lead was identical to this connection on the Kia CEE`D when they came in with any electrical faults the first move was always to clean this connection. It was always burned underneath and usually causing the problem. Hyundai/Kia don`t seem to have learned since!

[@glasser2819]

the modern Mercedes are built EXACTLY THE SAME WAY with painted GND strap and fail by killing AGM batt with 90Amp charge currents Benz uses LIN to control its Valeo Alternators. Erroneous voltage measurement is responsible for draining/killing battery *while driving* as seen hoing deep below 12V in this video. 👏

[@ziom00ziom]

Just make extra ground from engine to terminal, problem solved. I have done that in few mine cars before

[@alandawson3345]

Yes but you should not have to repair design faults on a modern car, they should be made right in the first place.@@ziom00ziom

[@alexanderzubar9593]

I guess you can either correct the problem yourself or wait for Kia to do it. This kind of grounding issue shows up in many cars domestic and imported. It’s as if each one is the first car they ever designed. Pretty disappointing.

[@alandawson3345]

@@alexanderzubar9593 We were also a Fiat dealers, and they always had a proper earth lead to the engine/gearbox as well as the chassis earth. On some of their bigger diesels it even went strait to one of the starter mounting bolts. Well done Fiat you got something right.

[@Usmanthemecano]

"Totally safe test"... and I can hear scanner Danner in the background going "holy sh!t!!!"

[@belljoxer]

The voltage drop across the corroded connection goes up linearity with the current, but the amount of power lost (heat generated) goes up with the square of the current. That's why it got so hot when you increased the load. The alternator feeding some of the load, even with reduced output, would have decreased the current through the corroded connection. The flaw in your bypass cable was that a jumper cable connection to the bolt didn't have enough surface area in contact to produce a low resistance connection. It was better than the corroded chassis connection, but far from perfect which is why you got mixed results. Contact between the chassis and the cable is as important as contact to the bolt. The more total surface area between the cable and the chassis, the lower the resistance. Great job as usual!

[@AntonBabiy]

My guess is without the battery to act as a "capacitor" to smooth the ripple from the alternator(or high resistance connection to the battery), the regulator saw a brief spike in voltage, tripped the overvoltage protection and then remained off until key cycle. As always, great job being transparent and keeping customers happy :)

[@stephenjones9153]

I used to work for Lucas many year's ago and we were always told to never ever run a Cars Engine with a disconnected battery because it could destroy or damage the Alternator. They need a proper connection to the Battery for them to work correctly.

[@hfdzl]

Many years ago an old time truck mechanic educated me. I replaced a $400 heavy truck starter, and didn't fix the problem, He told me the battery cables were bad, indeed , green inside. Lesson learned the hard way, check simple things first. Always great content, Thanks, Ivan!

[@45AMT]

Ivan is awesome with his no parts required repairs. Saved the customer hundreds. Even looked up to find the manufacture is replacing her clock spring for free! Awesome video!!!

[@zxtenn]

Nothing better than a SMART and honest mechanic fixing the REAL problem, as usual you have gained another customer Ivan, thank GOD for mechanics as good as you. I have a 2023 Tucson i assume with the 'smart' system? I can tell you the smart cruise control is amazing. Your troubleshooting skills and step by step analysis is AMAZING.

[@macdaddyns]

Ivan, you remind me of my late father. He was an amazing man of integrity and an excellent appliance technician. He instilled his ethics and values on me and with good morals a tech will be busier than you need to be! especially in a field where trust is so important. I started as a computer tech and rose to a senior level network engineer and owe most of my success to hard work and dedication to solving the problems of the day like my Dad, even if it meant taking a bit extra time to find the fault and miss opportunity to upsell for profit. Keep up the great work, much respect and blessings to you!

[@moondoggiemn9456]

FOREVER GROUND: 1) grind / sand frame until shiny; 2) solder a brass washer to the shiny frame steel*; 3) if there's no tapped hole in the frame, make one; 4) reconnect ground. If in 10 or 20 years it gets ohnmic, remove the bolt & shine the washer with Scotch-Brite™ or similar. Thanks for your fantastic efforts. I'm a poor shade-tree mechanic, but a better one because of you & a few others. * yes, you can easily solder brass to steel - I've done it scores of times.

[@MrTIGERH1752]

Excellent Idea!!! I've done it many times, and have never had a repeat failure of the connection. But you do need a large block iron, or a 5# soldering copper to carry enough heat to the body connection. Tim

[@GS-lh2nx]

You could have ripped her off several times and you didnt. Nice to see some honest people still exist out there. Kudos to you.

[@robbflynn4325]

I think you've just gained another loyal customer who will tell her friends and they will tell theirs. Your reputation for honesty and competence is growing, I think you will soon need bigger premises, preferably with a vehicle lift 😂

[@norcal715]

Great job Ivan, You saved the customer hundreds of $$$. You are a honest tech, some shady shops could have soaked her for an alternator, a clockspring, and an airbag.

[@kerrylewis2581]

I must be honest and say I panic every time Ivan walks past his laptop on the stool.

[@JamesSmith-jq2jc]

Well I'm definitely impressed. Not only does he save his customer money, but it got a complete diagnosis. I'll also say that this is valuable information for the do it yourself people, and even technicians in different stages of learning. Yep, if I was younger it would be great to invest in all those tools and gadgets. Thankfully I've invested in good walking shoes, my older camry keeps me from needing them. Great detective work.

[@Garth2011]

Not only that but because Ivan no parts required the alternator fix, it gave the owner a chance to move ahead and get a new air bag under warranty. She'd have never know that likely.

[@montehammons7917]

same situation I am in. Lost my '87 camry couple of years ago, it was stolen and totaled, so making do with a 2001 hyundai accent, very low miles. At 78, I am too old to learn a scope, but amazed at its usefulness. Would have done wonders when I was a busy DIY'er.

[@basecom70]

You had the time and knowledge to diagnose the corrective action. The complexity of modern cars requires a genuine technician and not a mechanic with a parts cannon. Mechanical problems require a mechanic whereas a technical issue requires a technician. Great job Ivan!

[@adamtrombino106]

I'm glad you went after the voltage drop. With smart charging systems, it's more critical than ever. I went through this with a 08 Tahoe. It already had a new alt, and battery. Scan system voltage showed 11v at idle with a/c on high but VAT40 showed almost 50amps! I took a 2 gauge jumper cable from the alt bracket to FRAME, not the body, and 14.4v, amps calmed down to about 35 after about 5 mins run time. This vehicle has several body to frame gnd straps ( some of which are buried) but somewhere it lost a crucial 1. I added a 100 amp braided strap with plenty of slack, from that bracket to the frame. Customer has had n/p for almost a yr now. That system seems to be a lot like the GM system, and it looks like the 73% is a default value.

[@loubakker5049]

It's all about power and grounds.

[@johnjennings2672]

GM has a TSB for many Chevy Trax cars to have the battery +/ground/sensor replaced as a unit to correct smart charging issues.

[@glasser2819]

@@johnjennings2672 the (-) batt sensor is itself a resistor. It is not supposed to drop significant voltage but must endure passing the 600A starting current. Check the drop

[@additudeobx]

Great job Ivan. You are always a pleasure to watch. Thanks for taking care of people the right way.

[@letmein2460]

Your commitment to FIXING these cars is amazing. Unfortunately a shop does not take the time to really diagnose the route cause and this is why we are on alternator number 3. What kind of recourse does the customer have against these shops? It seems like you and everyone else I watch (South Main Auto) preach "powers and grounds" and you along with Eric are amazing. Using logic and not using the parts canon is saving your customers incredible amounts of money. Again, excellent job repair this car and all of the other cars I have had the pleasure to watch you repair.

[@zxtenn]

I would assume 99.9% of the time they would just switch to someone like Ivan who fixed the REAL problem, to go back and fight with a shop for a refund or partial refund most of the time isnt work the time or aggravation. I hate to say it but people with Ivan's brains and diagnostic skills are few are far between so people are at the mercy of whomever once the warranty is over.

[@robpeabo509]

This has been a great outcome for your customer Ivan. Granted a bit disappointing she has spent money on two replacement alternators and tow previous diagnostic fees and no longer has what was probably an okay OEM alternator anymore. However that is in the past. As far as the airbag goes, lucky customer again - free OEM parts and labour is better than no parts required - at least the parts are new OEM! I am glad she had you do the service, clearly she is happy with the outcome and is happy to spend money at your place.

[@TheRetarp]

At the end of part 1 I was screaming bad ground and was hoping you would do some simple voltage checks. The mini-rant about the smart charging should be taken back, this system performed admirably. The voltage regulation was trying to compensate for the floating battery ground. If this were some old car it would have failed to start a long time ago due to that bad ground (and potentially caught that ground wire on fire during crank).

[@IamDerick]

I was just relating this with what I experienced with my 90 CK2500 Silverado. It had weird quirks I could not figure out but it drove and ran well for a utility truck. Years on after a major repair (cylinder head(s) replacement) During reassembly, since everything was easy to get to, I cleaned and restored ground connections the weird quirks went away. It was like a new truck. Lights brighter blower motor faster, no unexplained intermittent misses and purred like a kitten (except one manifold exhaust leak I have yet to address) ;-) . Did not know about fluid film then, I used antiseize paste for the chassis connections. I am going on 2 years and it is still ok. Cool series Ivan. Cheers.

[@yosefmama1136]

I am not a mechanic, but I had a little Dodge Ram D50 (Mitsubishi) with a failed alternator. I replaced it with a reman unit. In about a week I had to replace it again. Another week & replace again, but trouble shot problem to a 200 ohm ignition switch. Replaced and problem solved. I was confused a little at first with truck ampmeter indications, which varied from indicating overcharging to no charging after each failure. Since the voltage regulator was in the alternators, it depended on which failed I guess. That ignition switch 200 ohms in series with the charging circuit made the alternators see a low voltage at the battery because of the drop across the 200 ohms, and it was charging at maximum constantly. Not good for alternators lifespan.

[@mrdevilfox69]

thats why its always a good idea to do a big 3 upgrade on grounding, you cant rely on a factory ground the electricity is only going through the bolt and not on the bare metal coz its insulated with paint and you could have atleast get some sand paper to totally clean the ground mating surface not with a screw driver

[@keithteasdale7765]

Hi ivan,that was a great video as a time served mechanic +other in mtr trade. 55 years,in england. I used to have a theory that if I had a vehicle with any flickering issues of any components the first thing i did was check earth connections with jumper leads volt drops and ohm readings , helped me loads of times,as retired , I love your Videos and have a great respect for your abilities fantastic appreciate Your expertise ,have a great year

[@GarnConstructionInc]

Fantastic diagnostics! Its crazy to not have a direct path to the engine where the starter lives. The starter draw in the winter made that connection worse every year.

[@markmalikowski4971]

Great diagnosis! All because of a ground problem? Unbelievable! It is a shame that she couldn't get the money back for the other alternators. Well done Ivan!

[@agostinodibella9939]

This video makes me want to check for voltage drops on the negative cables of both my 9 + years old cars.

[@fieldsofomagh]

1.5 volts is a whopping big drop and should have caused charging problems, which it did. Diagnosis was good and finding it, even better. Liked the topdon thermal camera attachment and really exposed the underlying problem. No more alternator replacements for your long suffering hyundai customer and an end to the irritating nuisance. Best outcome, so far, for the new year and many congrats on a fine bit of auto detective work. Never imagined the solution would have been solved, so soon.

[@Paramount531]

Years ago I had an old El Camino that had flickering interior lights, it was a missing engine to body ground, so a bad ground on this didn't really surprise me. Nice work!

[@petergondolier4088]

Good detective work Ivan. To eliminate the possibility of any bad grounds, when I buy a new "used" car, first thing I do is remove, inspect and clean every accessible ground. Coating the connections with a light coat of NO-OX-ID conductive grease. I've never had a bad ground problem since with any used car I bought.

[@royblackburn1163]

Totally agree with you, too many people use dielectric grease and spray penetrating oil all over their electrics no wonder they have problems.

[@Codadams]

Ivan - your skills are amazing! I totally appreciate everything you do for your customers and KZbin fans! I know the amount of video editing time it takes. You are one of a kind - thanks for the best videos and keep up doing everything you do for your customers.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thanks Cody :)

[@timothyball3144]

Well done. Hopefully that spray cleaned the threads for the bolt because as you said, most of the current runs through the threads. The dead spot on the clockspring reminds me of the dead rear fuel tank level sensor on my dad's old Ford. The previous owner kept that tank full and only ran off of the front tank, so the contact wore through the winding on the rear tank sensor.

[@meeder78]

Great job again. Bad ground connections are the cause of so many weird electronic problems in modern cars.

[@RideCamVids]

Those sensing circuits are very sensitive,,, hence the name duh. I had one on my Acura/Honda where one of the 12 diodes in the pack went bad and melted. The vehicle kept working as normal, outputs to spec etc so I never knew one diode was cooked. Then out of the blue one night the central display sent up a message "check charging system". I figured maybe brushes at first or something to do with the regulator or diode pack. In the shop manual they only have one page for the alternator which basically covers some ohm tests on the coils and says to replace the alternator if not to spec since no parts are shown available. Through some cross reference digging of this alternator type, I sourced a new diode pack, regulator and brush holder and silver soldered the new parts in after removal of the old ones and checking the coils for correct resistance when they were in situ. You might think why not replace it and be done, however its where you live in the world that dictates what you can or cannot do and the price of the parts. Besides, as a retired auto tech I always rebuilt starters and alternators anyway to save customers money, so now I saved myself some as well. I would have put a little de-oxit on those airbag connector pins and blown it off with some compressed air for good preventative measure, just saying.

[@clintprice2123]

Nice series Ivan and even better how you look out for your clients. This builds so many loyalties and brings new faces to your shop. I’m so happy this channel appeared as a suggestion to view.

[@nevillegoddard4966]

Good find Ivan! My old '72 Aussie XA Ford Falcon lost quite a few problems after I installed an extra earth strap between the firewall & a bellhousing bolt. All other lights used to dim just perceptably when I pressed the brake pedal! They all disappeared afterwards. It may even be possible that the original earth strap to the engine may still have been dodgy. Not sure. From memory the main negative wire from the battery ran straight to an engine bolt.

[@tombledsoe8880]

Kirschoffs for the win on diag! As a father of college students that girl is lucky to have you work on her car! Great job Ivan

[@gmansecond4103]

TOP NOTCH HONEST PERSON! There were so many ways you could have screwed the customer and nobody would have been the wiser. Instead of making more money on an alternator replacement, knowing it was just a ground, you chose to be honest with the customer, and with your viewers here on youtube. A+

[@kastooMcFry]

Nice job, Ivan. That bypass wire probably still had too much resistance for the system to be happy.

[@kellygibson7299]

Awesome as usual. I have seen so many remans cause issues but again, never make assumptions. The best advice I’ve heard about electrical diagnostics is to always have the mindset to find the unwanted resistance. This case study proves that. Doesn’t matter how involved the system is, the basics still have to be there. Nicely done

[@faxmen09]

Really enjoyed this one. Lots of practical info especially on ground wire and cleanup of wire connection and ground contact area. Maybe area in Florida near the ocean and salt water. Already looked into Corrosion X spray, might get some. Great find on the Hyun clock spring recall. Thinking because it affects airbag, Hyundai kinda had to make that recall and covering it for that long a period. Hope the dealer follows through on the clock spring, and treats the customer right. Saved the customer on new alternator and airbag...Nice! Great job again Ivan. Edit. Didn't mean to imply other PHAD don't have practical applications, just this one has more 'for me'.

[@stevensutcliffe533]

Just had this issue on a friends sonata. Dealer has you authorize a 1 hour diagnosis fee first just in case it’s not the clockspring. It’s waived after the clockspring is found to be at fault. Seems reasonable.

[@faxmen09]

@@stevensutcliffe533 I haven't read the recall wording, but if that's the case, then only replace if proven faulty. I suppose as long as dealer straight with the customer, i.e. does an accurate diagnosis and not attempt to upsell something else, it's ok. In this case, customer has accurate diagnosis, so armed with the facts, 'shouldn't' have a problem.

[@RetiredVehicleTech-nk5ch]

On cars with Smart Charge Systems with Battery Monitoring and fitted with an EFB or AGM battery, if the battery has been renewed, it needs to have been replaced with an identical EFB or AGM battery (not a regular lead acid battery). Also, some cars need to have the new EFB or AGM battery "registered" into the ECU - and if this is not done, it can cause strange charging problems, which can also shorten the life of the alternator and the life of the new battery.

[@RobertHancock1]

That's true, but these cars just use a regular flooded lead acid battery. I don't think there's anything that needs to be done after replacing the battery either, I think it just relearns after a power down, which is really how they should all work..

[@glasser2819]

@@RobertHancock1 yes right, when batt sensor looses 12VDC power connection it resets itself to relearn the battery charge % status by using Voltage and Current. FYI: some high maintenance cars need to have their new batt registered into the computer

[@Kizmox]

Cable failing like that is VERY common thing in volkswagens. Happens mostly in alternator B+ wire which burns up the fuse box while overheating.

[@basshunter428]

I've been bitten by bad grounds myself and that is a perfect example of why you should always check powers and grounds before calling any part (no good). I periodically check all the ground points on both my 96 Ranger and my 98 Wrangler. They are all coated in Fluid Film, but I check them at least once a year because I live in the "rust belt" and I drive on the beach to fish. I think 80% of the issues I see with older vehicles are faulty ground related. Great diag! Happy New Year, Ivan!

[@baxrok2.]

You keep learning and growing and that's why I keep coming back. What a great journey it's been. Thanks Ivan!

[@billdunlop8683]

I really like the way Ivan troubleshoots, He is always asking himself "why" , I was taught when I first started out troubleshooting appliances is "ask yourself why 5 times" and usually the answer becomes clearer.

[@richardwallinger1683]

this diadnosis is a real challenge . your customer has a good guy on the job .looking promising so far .

[@RandomYoutuber1023]

Your persistence and thorough investigation is what makes you one of the best mechanics around. I wouldn't hesitate to bring my cars to you.

[@chadhelmer3835]

Many shops would have sold her the clock spring...even if they knew of the extended warranty. Kudo to Ivan for being one of the good guys!

[@htownblue11]

Man holy smokes that was a crazy find. The main ground visually looked fantastic. Yet another reason to always trust but verify like you say Ivan. At this point if you somehow fixed a bent rod with no parts required I would hardly find it impossible any more. Another wow diagnosis man.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

This was a very satisfying NPR fix :)

[@AJ-wj9ij]

Good Daig Ivan , i would also check all ground strap to engine from body as well and do a battery load test just to verify alternator didn't do any damage to battery life , before the car leaves , again good Daig my man

[@mitchharrison435]

My thoughts exactly!

[@mh70ss]

That was a very interesting case study. Glad that you were able to nail down both problems for the young lady. You are one of the best diagnosticians out there. Thanks for all you do.

[@dannytreadway4561]

The first thing I read when chasing a parasitic draw on my truck in the shop manual was check the ground connection to the body from the ground post. I have had to clean it a couple times in twenty years. Original alternator. Also when he removed the ground cable the PCM probably reset the regulator. Thanks Evan.

[@fluffyblue4006]

Weird that it still cranked reasonably well. Anyway, at your temporary fix with the jumper cable, the total resistance was still a bit too high: the clips, the long lead, the strut, the internal resistance of that near-depleted battery. The normal situation would be a short cable with good connections and a good battery. Kinda stupid that this "smart" charging system did not find it necessary to alert the user of that voltage drop, by for example blinking the charging/alternator light on the dash. At this particular spot, the car body was able to absorb the heat. At other spots, it could ultimately lead to an engine bay fire. By the way, some of the observed symptoms could be explained as an emissions strategy. Seen on diesels but not on gas powered. Yet?... So, at freezing temperatures, some diesel ECU's will wait with recharging the battery until the engine warmed up a bit. This will reduce engine load and therefore emissions while it is still idling stone cold just after cranking.

[@windward2818]

It's crazy for an OEM to pay the money to have a smart charging system (smart alternator with PCM control) which includes a very expensive battery state-of-charge sensor (shunt, resistive or magnetic), and then use the chassis as the primary return to the battery negative. There should be sealed dedicated splices (which includes the block ground (starter, alternator) combining into a larger return cable directly to the battery negative (or in this case the return side to the shunt) with only a smaller chassis ground connection for currents that would normally return through the chassis like exterior illumination. If you want to clean ground chassis bolts, I put the in a wood soft jaw vice and then use a wire wheel in a battery operated drill, I find it is much faster and easier than using the bench wire wheel. To clean metal plate type contacts I use Scotch-Brite 2 inch pads in a small portable die grinder (I have course, medium, fine and very fine), this also is faster and safer when held in the vise. Just remember to use eye protection, especially if you are using the cheap wire wheels from China. Also, be careful of Scotch-Brite clones from china, they usually wear out much faster and the grit is not as consistent. Actually, the current should be going through the flat faces of the joint and not the hardware. So, you want to try and maximize the surface area (or in other words cross section area) that conducts the current.

[@sstocker31]

Nice to see the sun shining on this customer of yours....it's not very often that happens with car repairs.

[@CodycoWeb]

Great job Ivan. There isn’t a Ray of hope for most techs to find this issue. Understanding electrical and stepping back to look at the whole picture is needed to not get caught by the easy misdiagnosis. Feel proud that you didn’t give up at thinking the alt was the issue.

[@apexalphalabs6408]

My wifes elantra has been doing the same thing for weeks! Thank you for posting this video. Fixed the faulty main ground and no more issues. Subbed!

[@crashoverride328]

Just a quick point Ivan, if you open up the base of that bench grinder you will find a capacitor that is out of spec, replace it and it will no longer need a nudge to get it running.

[@frankvoynar6427]

Thanks for the tip , my bench grinder does the same thing. It's done that for years.

[@reneneron2971]

I recommend having the customer’s current battery load tested, as it has been operating at low voltage and not getting fully charged for an extended period of time…which kills car batteries. The customer may still need a new car battery; they fail in very inconvenient places.

[@francoispapadakis76]

I agree. Also check voltage drop between battery minus to ground on alternator. These so-called smart systems seems to be very tricky...

[@mikefoehr235]

Good idea

[@edwardjames6070]

I am surprised Ivan didn't check for heat on the neg cable after the repair, either by touch or using the infrared camera

[@sorenjorgensen5334]

@@edwardjames6070 He checked with the voltage drop test....

[@mrfishbulb7187]

@@sorenjorgensen5334 I agree, but it would make an interesting comparison for those of us who don't have experience of thermal imaging cameras. I appreciate it may appear obvious but I always enjoy Ivan's proof of concept / fixes.

[@jamesatkinson6480]

I have a Toyota Camry which had an alternator, and had done about 170,000 miles. Found a flat battery one morning, and took the regulator/brushes assembly out, and replaced the brushes. Checked voltage, and charging (when cold) at 14 volts. Took the car for a drive, and again, a flat battery. At night, I needed a jump start, and drove home with dim lights, left engine running, and measured 10 volts..! I then replaced the regulator/brushes assembly, and in hotter conditions measured 14 volts. I think with this Hyundai the reference voltage was taken from the car body as a ground which reduced the charging voltage available to the battery, giving a perceived symptom of an alternator failure.

[@markmosher1856]

Here's a thought about that body ground. It appears that all the current to start the car or charge the battery goes through that bolt and surrounding sheet metal at the end of the battery ground cable. It seems like an improvement could be made by connecting another battery cable from that body ground bolt to somewhere on the engine block.. This would eliminate the heavy current and consequent heating of that sheet metal, and decrease the voltage drop on the entire ground side of the electrical system, particularly for the starter and the alternator which are the heaviest users of that circuit.

[@mcjjordan]

I would add additional earthing so not relying on one bolt. Could even run one to engine/alternator casing aswell.

[@sz1404]

I'm going to say this again I hope one day you can get a network of guys like yourself that will help other mechanics that are interested but don't have the knowledge in doing deep Diagnostics. Cars today and in the future will always be complicated and just change them Parts is not enough. I hope one day you can come up with it cuz I think all you mechanics can really use some place to go to figure out these difficult in depth problems. And one benefit of course is that if a problem for a particular car was resolved by one person everybody will know about it and will be able to deal with that problem throughout the network a bit easier.

[@brianscottdubois7515]

I would hope each rebuilt starter was covered under warranty. The rebuilt starters I purchased from NAPA all had lifetime warranties. I originally planned to replace the solenoid, however, it was about the same money for a reman with a lifetime warranty. It is great this Alternator was good and it was only a bad ground to body connection on the battery ground.

[@rhkips]

Dang man, good find! I wonder how much of the alternator issue was a result of the bad ground, and how much of it was the vehicle's internal logic not being able to compensate. Would we have seen this issue on a traditional charging system with no smart sensing circuit? I 100% don't trust the duty cycle PIDs we were looking at, whether the fault of the scantool reading them, or the vehicle providing them...

[@petepeabody8905]

Ivan I have an exact twin to your bench grinder. It needs a bit of a spin too. Oh yes your skills and honesty are truly a blessing. Great job....Pete

[@tenmillionvolts]

Change the start capacitor

[@jimbergen5232]

Another excellent diagnosis and " No Parts Required " . How many other shops missed that. Well hopefully many see this and your procedure and can learn for the next time they encounter this situation.

[@kevincampbell8298]

My brother has a similar flickering light issue on his jeep. But my health issues have prevented me from doing the physical labour. I told him I think its a ground. He has 2 batteries in it. Hoping to get to it this coming summer. I am almost certain i will find a ground issue just like you have. He keeps telling dealer my brother said all grounds need to be checked. We shall see when I get to it. Great work!

[@frankvoynar6427]

Woke up this Sunday morning to my phone alert for PHAD PART#2 WOW!! WHAT A OUT COME.. in my many years.as a dealership tech complex problems almost always ended up as something simple. Only saying. Ivan another fantastic job..well done

[@scottmagoch5367]

Hey Ivan, really nice job,seems like no matter how you jumped in other/better grounds,the sensor on the ground cable still read through that bad ground connection. The Wizard of Pine Hollow works his magic once again! Have good day!

[@cullenmiller8170]

Awesome case study and great outcome for your customer. Hopefully the dealership doesn’t try to upsell or refuse the warranty. Also the infrared camera seems to be an awesome tool to find bad electrical connections without touching anything.

[@tomsawyer4776]

One of the most interesting in several months.....I watch them all.

[@alandaters8547]

Great video! I have a 2013 Santa Fe and just noticed that it has a Smart alternator and studied up on them. When I saw the grounding issue that you discovered I went out to check mine. Hyundai has learned! The ground cable now has a larger lug that has 2 (two) bolts holding it securely to a pad-like part of the body sheet metal (same area but a bit higher). Thanks your for video.

[@nhzxboi]

Another thing you never can tell about when the alternator has been replaced is the size of the original pulley if the reman one comes with a pulley. Nothing in particular to do with this video other than the replacement of OEM parts with non-OEM remanufactured(more accurately 'repaired') parts. When you install those and return the 'core', at that exchange you sacrifice original context of that part and may never get it back. I've experienced nightmares with remans especially with parts that have many variables associated(alternators and pulley sizes)...carburetors were the worst nightmare scenario...remans would have different size jets, cams, pumps, linkages, etc.. Just beware that when you give up the OEM part(core return) and replace with an aftermarket gizmo, you have no reference to the original. I'm out of the biz now but it was a real hassle when I was doing things automotive('80s and '90s). Is that still true today? I keep hearing about these Doorman part fiascos. It looks to me like the aftermarket is at least as ruthless now as it was then. Not fun.

[@bostedtap8399]

Great diagnosis Ivan, time old problem on cars with body earthing never goes away. Thanks for sharing. Best regards from the UK 🇬🇧. John.

[@olko3418]

Kudos to Hyundai for having their engineers program a possible fault for "Voltage Rationality". This was great foresight.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

True but would be nice if they also had the warning light turn on to actually alert the driver 😅

[@gwick358]

I thought there must be an underlying cause. I also knew Ivan would find it. He's a diagnostic master. I watch every video. It's made me a better tech.

[@daveunbranded]

I don't understand why you have not got yourself a barn or garage on that big beautiful property. Great job, as always

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Because it would attract attention of the Nazi Zoning Enforcer haha

[@cclngthr]

I have always changed ground wiring to the battery from engine and body with 0 gauge audio compatible wiring. Solves a lot of problems.

[@themechanic6117]

great video , enjoyed this one. It pays to have the car properly diagnosed instead of just continuing to throw parts at it.

[@clueless6559]

Watched both videos now , battery sensor, the one on the negative would be measuring the battery current , bit confusing as the pid is described as AMS not battery current sense, that sensor has a big part to play in charge control, great video's and case study ,reminds you to still check basics like volt drop no matter how smart the car thinks it is , thanks..

[@brianw8963]

I was correct right from the start. It was an “interesting” case! 😀👍👍

[@dustcommander100]

Wow! Great diagnosis! While it goes against normal thinking that the connection would have allowed relatively normal starting, it obviously did. Personally, I hate to see a copper-to-steel bond like that, but I know it's been done since cars were first manufactured. It was interesting to see that the current monitor seems to show starting current. That would be good baseline data to hold onto - and interesting to see if it changed with the connection cleaned (had to). I have no problem accepting that the connection changed with temperature, and that it seemed to be fixed when the alternator was changed each time. I am a very strong believer in coincidence!

[@bills6093]

The arcing at the ground to body connection could kill all sorts of electronics in the car.

[@pdzh]

Ivan is one of the best guys that I've seen work on cars, even though my own brother is also a mechanic. Btw I am also Ivan.

[@jdmeaux]

Once again you show the importance of checking Powers and Grounds. I've been both a professional mechanic and a shade-tree mechanic for over 50 years and have seen bad grounds cause all kind of headaches. Most are caused by corrosion and loose connections, even on new vehicles.

[@Garth2011]

Too many new vehicles I'll add.

[@gebentech3915]

Great videos Ivan, always watch u. I think When you bypassed the ground, the cars current clamp which is on the ground side couldn’t see the actual current going to the car because current chooses the lesser resistive path and in this case your bypass wire. This confused the AMS and hence was still problematic.

[@AP9311]

BAD ground??? Wow, nice to have thermal imaging!! That's great news for Hyundai to step up on replacing the clock spring!! Great video!! Many thumbs up 👍 👌

[@DaveSender66]

Nice find Ivan!!! You saved this young lady a lot of money, good work!!!!

[@russellhltn1396]

That's interesting! How did the car crank with that bad ground cable? While I picked up on the bad ground in Part 1, I thought the starter wasn't affected. I noticed a number of commentators dismissed bad ground based on the fact it cranked so well. Really interesting failure mode.

[@mrjsv4935]

Very cool case and good to see the customer got the car properly diagnosed, instead just firing the parts cannon like before :)

[@johnbellas490]

Hello Ivan!! Great find on that BAD GROUND CONNECTION!! Yes bad grounds can cause a litany of problems especially with anything that has electronics and digital systems like computers, that can cause all sorts of weird problems. I would recommend the use of DeOxit and cleaning that body surface with sandpaper THEN apply a product called Burndy Penetrox to the contacting surface of the car frame/body then reinstall the ground lug. Burndy Penetrox is a product used by quite a few electricians in installing or working with electrical entrance work or electrical distribution wiring for absolutely great electrical connections that will be sealed against dampness and weather. I use it in some connections in my amateur radio station KC2UVN. I bought my tube of the stuff through DX Engineering an amateur radio hobby supplier, but you should be able to get it from your local electrical/electricians supply outlet too. Great video I have been watching your videos as well as South Main Auto's Eric O's videos for quite some time now !! Great content! keep up the good work. from John A Bellas in the rusty belt area, State of Green Crusties New York!!

[@MelvinTheGrate]

Yes, clean that surface and protect it with Penetrox or equivalent. That connection should _not_ be relying on current through the bolt and threads. From the time you discovered that bad ground, my mind was screaming, "Fix that {adjective} ground, and _then_ test." Until you've properly fixed the ground you can't rely on anything else you're seeing. You've seen that sort of thing happen before, and I was surprised that you continued testing before doing that simple fix. I guess you had more faith than did I in that alternate ground connection.

[@srdankragulj6581]

My man you need to change the capacitor on the rotary brush....that help with the hand to start rotating....:)