Customer Drove 15 HOURS...BMW 4x4 VTG No-Comm?

[@MikeM-cz5ln]

A customer drives 15 hours to get his car fixed by Ivan! Wow, talk about working under pressure to make a correct diagnosis. Ivan, really appreciate your channel.

[@robhughes8516]

Ivan is not your typical “dime a dozen” tech/mechanic, I would drive (if it were drive-able) my vehicle from LA to PA to have him diagnose and repair if I was not able to do it myself….in fact I’m pretty convinced at this point that no matter if it’s a vehicle or a toaster or anything in between, if it has moving parts and electronics Ivan can fix it.

[@stealthg35infiniti94]

The customer was on the right track. I think he suffered from Burn Out thus he gave up. I've been there before and had another set of eyes just to point out my last step to go.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Well he suffered "Parts Cannon Burnout" since he didn't have a scope 😅

[@rightwingtrashrus274]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics but he had BMW ista😂

[@spin1275gt]

Great diagnose Ivan, just a quick tip. To see a good flexray signal with the pico scope you have to use the 100 MHz Oscilloscope Probe. The signal will be much cleaner.

[@arnobruynen6073]

At around 4:15 it seems it shut off the ignition during the clearing of the fault codes and you seem to force it back on. It should cycle the ignition automatically for you as it's part of the the clearing procedure. Also the gateway doesn't really need programming in the sense that it doesn't need a software update and the ZGW doesn't contain any coding. It does however store the vehicle order (VIN,build date, and options list and it's also stored in the CAS module as a backup) and it also stores the SVT. The SVT is a list of all modules installed and on which bus and channel they should be. The ZGW needs this SVT so it knows which modules to expect on which flexray channel. If the SVT doesn't match the actual layout of modules of the car certain modules might not get initialised on flexray even though they are connected. That's your issue. Restoring the SVT and properly initialising all flexray modules takes about 10 minutes for someone like me with the proper software and knowledge, I could even do that remotely over the internet ;)

[@AutoFocus-se]

Same as the conclusion in other words?

[@teekay_1]

I don't understand why BMW (and other manufacturers) do it that way. Why not have the ZGW smart enough to pull an ID from each module, create an inventory and be minimally smart enough to send a signal for each module to wake up and start operating (the same thing your PC does)? If the module doesn't have an ID, then it won't get initialized. Of course, cars are smart enough now that they should be able to self-diagnose and display their codes on the head-unit in the car, so the consumer can see the same thing the dealer/shop can, even if they can't fix it.

[@Cheepchipsable]

@@teekay_1 Code info is meaningless to the vast majority of car owners, the amount of information is huge. So apart from a curious few, no point in programming that stuff to display on the head unit. Code readers are cheap enough. Codes only indicate systems that are affected, not what is wrong with any particular part. How often do we see crazy codes that end up simply being a bad earth, (sorry "ground")?

[@PatricioGarcia1973]

What is Flexray, ZGW, SVT? I know sometimes the car goes wonky due to low batteries. I have an e39 that had EWS problem because the owner had been trying to start it with a very low battery. Using INPA I was able to resynch the key to the EWS to the ECM.

[@teekay_1]

@@Cheepchipsable I say that because while code readers are cheap for the minimally handy, dealers still charge a diagnosis fee of $50-100 to do a code read which is silly. It's like a dealer charging you a fee for using a wrench on your car. Sure, only a few people will care about it, but the car is smart enough to do it, and digging three layers deep into menus isn't that big a deal to read the codes. And coding is cheap, and could be reusable across an entire line of cars.

[@jasonpark1052]

Ivan, check out BMW bulletin B 12 18 12. If the injector/ignition grounds are left loose or at some point during a repair (usually injectors) it will try and find a ground through the VTG damaging the VTG control unit and the BSD users. I have also found it can damage the DME or ZGM in some cases.

[@somanyteapots]

Owner of a 2011 550 M-Sport here - the M-Sport package is from the factory, no aftermarket, totally unrelated to anything M except the name. It's basically just looks, includes various things like some M badges in places, front and rear bumper differences, and some claim there are some suspension changes. Can't verify that part. Personally the M-Sport bumpers look great to me, and in my car I got a different steering wheel with it which I think is a huge upgrade.

[@Bellboy40]

Wow, that made my head spin! Way too many modules on these vehicles. Ivan did a great job diagnosing that problem. I guess I will never understand why they make it so complicated to just turn on the heater or radio, roll down a window, blow the horn, turn on the headlights, or many other simple jobs.

[@Suchayoutuber]

We have to make the 8yr university degree people feel valuable

[@jyao5409]

And you wonder why there is a chip shortage. They are insane.

[@richardcranium5839]

@@Suchayoutuber most 8 year university degree people's brains are mush wouldnt be able to fix this

[@Jpilgrim30]

I understand why they do it as it cuts down drastically on the amount of wiring needed for all of the electronics that cars have these days but they need to work on their implementation. They need better network layouts and more reliable fault recognition in these networks. With the way they daisy chain all of these modules together sometimes a simple pinched/shorted wire can cause havoc and make everything go haywire. A central gateway with every module having its own path that can be easily isolated should be something every manufacturer has especially GM with all of the terminal and connector issues they tend to have had for years now. It’s 2022. Why is it so difficult for them to build a network of modules that can reliably detect and isolate a faulty module or the wiring of the network that the module is on? One fatigued terminal can bring the whole car to its knees and that should be unacceptable for the price they are asking for new cars these days. Early on they were doing pretty good with star connectors and acces points where you could quickly isolate the network and take modules offline at a central point.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@Jpilgrim30 great comment! Yes, easily accessible Star junction connectors are absolutely beautiful when it comes to network diagnostics 👌

[@MarcHord-mk5ff]

To boldly go where no man has gone before! This is the voyage’s of pine hollow diagnostic.

[@ghettsumm7949]

Ivan is a computer geek, that happens to repair cars, LOL But, amazingly I understood his whole line of reasoning and managed to keep up. Thanks Man!

[@scottquaile34]

LOL, I almost kept up

[@jakeandrus690]

Scope required for that one. Well done Ivan 🤙🏻🤯

[@HeyBirt]

I have built complex industrial automation systems that were far less complicated that this BMW. This car is complexity for the sake of being complex. What is going to happen to all of these cars in 50+ integrated modules, 3-4 different communication bus types (plus multiple instances of each type) in a few years when the manufacture quits supporting them and/or diagnostic tools quit supporting them? "Oh sorry! The flouzaldorfer module on your car requires a software update to fix this problem but the manufacture does not support updates anymore!" I wonder if people will eventually turn away from these overly complex cars?

[@dave3657]

Drove fifteen hours in a BMW! I thought it was click bait at first. I didn’t have that much luck on mine. 🙂

[@kastooMcFry]

I can't imagine what a dealer would have done with this problem. Probably replace everything on that bus and start over but change the customer a king's ransom. Great job, Ivan. Thanks!

[@bigdaddymak1439]

The customer couldn't imagine either so he drove it to the best

[@DC-dc6ey]

Yeah, the dealer is a mistake for electrical gremlins. I just spent a whole month diagnosing one in my out of warranty 340i. I needed to prove to the dealer that the telematics module installed 12 months prior as part of a campaign stops communicating when the weather is 45F or colder. It’s absolutely crazy how complicated cars are these days 😤

[@robertoruiz7069]

WELL IVAN ,you lost me on this one. Way over my head. It's a good thing the guy who brought this to you is smart enough to ASK FOR HELP.GUYS if you don't know what's going on with a car you're working on ,there is NO SHAME in going to some who does. or in this case i think even IVAN had to ask himself could it be? this or that.I really think the dealership would have made their whole weeks worth of repair money on this one and maybe still failed to fix it.So i guess even if someone says to me at a gas station here I'll trade you my BMW for your 1975 pinto 4 banger ,I SHOULD TURN HIM DOWN????/haha

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thank you for the kind words Roberto. Owner was an engineer and BMW enthusiast, so was very eager to learn more about his car and the diagnostic process 🙂👍

[@additudeobx]

Now here is the amazing thing about Ivan and this diagnostic wasn't even his most challenging from all the videos I've watched. What's really so amazing is that he performs all of these diagnostics single handedly, I mean literally single handedly. Ivan has one hand managing the camera and one hand managing the test equipment. In all honesty, that is a pretty amazing feat! If Ivan said in essence, "I could troubleshoot and diagnose that problem fault with one hand tied behind my back", I'd believe and trust that he was telling the truth! Love the channel Ivan.... Stay Safe.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

haha it's a challenge sometimes when there's no good spot to put the tripod 😅

[@aldrinalmario1513]

Another interesting diagnosis Ivan! Can't believe that its already to a point that vehicles are on the level of programming modules individually as compared to just the main ecu. Looking forward to the next videos and again, thanks for taking us along.. Cheers!

[@upallnight888]

It is just another trick by BMW to stop people from working on their cars. Instead of buying a new part or getting a used part to fix the problem, now you need to get the module program to work with the car. Most small repair shops that don't specialize in BMW will not be able to work on the car since they will not have access to the software to reprogram the modules.

[@Blazer02LS]

@@upallnight888 Not just BMW, many makes are doing the same thing, The Euros were just the first ones to start the trend.

[@tommyodonovan3883]

Thanks for doing this *Pine Hollow Auto-Diagnostic* the camera work is excellent. ....but you always bring your *A-Game.*

[@Garth2011]

Of all the automobile diagnosis videos I have watched in the past few years I have to say the first thing any mechanic should consider is...connecting a battery maintainer first and then a 20 foot long + and - jumper to use for diagnosis like Ivan used here in this video. You will never know how much time will be taken to diag and you won't know for sure you have proper voltage without them.

[@fredautos]

Interesting Notes

[@cullenmiller8170]

Is that an option on a BMW where you get a trunk full of spare modules? I used to carry a spare fuel pump relay for my W124 Mercedes since those would leave you stranded in a heart beat.

[@bbogdanmircea]

Klemme 30,15,31,31C are standard signals in Automotive for Europe. You can wiki this KL15 is Ignition, KL30 is Permanent 12V, KL31 is Ground and so on ... Such a pitty the owner didn't try all combinations of parts, he could have spared himself the 15 hour drive.

[@gerardmccarthy2432]

Part of Scottyys mantra that older BMWs are money pits and depreciate so much.

[@mikeburdi3464]

Hey drove 15 hours just to go see Ivan. I guess it's because Missouri loves company! Bada boom! 😅😂 Good video Ivan!

[@kevinbarry71]

Amazing a BMW of that vintage made that drive. Also amazing he's not there trying to get you to fix his burned out turbos, and melted valve seals etc.

[@Abandoned_Brane]

Grew up in Cleveland, went to college at Penn state. I spend a whole lot of time in the rockies. Central PA is my favor place. So jealous of Ivan.

[@Stoney3K]

Sounds a lot to me like the VTG went bad shorting the FlexRay transceivers to ground, which took out the bus transceivers on the gateway as a result.

[@Paul1958R]

Wow 15 hours is probably around 1000 miles driving. At 25 mpg/$4 gal that is $320 just in gas! But as others have said it is still less expensive then going to a dealer, etc. I am curious how you would have diagnosed the 2 bad modules without having spares on hand? Clearly the owner is atypical and is vested in this type of complex eurotech. I will never understand why people HAVE to have these types of vehicles? Self aggrandizing? Vanity? To me a vehicle is just to get me safely from A to B. All I need is a heater and radio. Bring back simple cars (Im partial to 1990s Ford Escort 5-speeds) Paul (in MA) ps I thought the 'flexray' was some kind of alien weapon

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

❤️ Escort 5 speed, 👌

[@patriot2164]

He ready for Rocky mountain Race Week , With all the Electronic parts !

[@mikechiodetti4482]

1. What could have taken out two modules? 2. What will happen to the new modules when they are programmed? So far, it looks like the system is coming back to life. Good work Ivan! On to part 2.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Great question, Mike! Part 2 will be interesting :)

[@mikechiodetti4482]

Ivan What power and grounds are common to these modules? We've seen "damaged," corroded or rusted grounds. What about alternator ripple, damaged positive connectors, a battery that was changed due to an old battery with a weak cell? My wife's 06 Kia Sorento V6 used to burn out headlight and tail light bulbs from time to time. The alternator output was stable, no ripple, battery connections clean and tight. When the battery started having problems I replaced it and all the light problems stopped! Only one other time did I see that problem on an 04 Ford F350 utility body truck where I worked before retirement. And it was the only truck that had that problem in the City Fleet! Batteries can cause odd problems! Just a suggestion.

[@zx8401ztv]

Well that was in a mess, when you showed the data lines were being shorted out i thought ahh a physical module problem. But it's never as easy as that lol. Two modules causing hell, blame bmw lol. And a module that should have been programmed correctly but wasn't. We have been here before lol :-D.

[@davyarthurs]

The M badges aren’t aftermarket. They’re the M division badge, so come on models with an extra M sport kit etc….. visual upgrades and maybe a suspension upgrade too

[@jd5179]

Ivan is like maestro on fixing electronic gremlins .

[@chiluco2000]

The Car Ninja in Kansas for sure will be able to program those modules!!

[@jackiemay9471]

you are one smart guy been watching since you launched motoyam82 loving your vids

[@mkilptrick]

The podcast I never get tired of.

[@kingsolomon4392]

was very curious to know if the launch was capable of doing the programming! great content! keep it coming

[@nickpetkov7832]

Dealers generaly dont want to deal with cars outside of warranty. Their strategy is to give you a bill so high that you get discouraged. But in all honesty as a someone who works on BMW for a living, they have very complicated multi connected, multi bused system. Requires either superb diagnostic skills to troubleshoot or ISTA but who has a several thousand $ OEM software.

[@weshawkins7165]

I’m about ready to drive 40 hours just to hang out and learn. I’ll even buy lunch’s.

[@cclngthr]

I sold the Contour. Engine was too much to fix, plus the lower intake manifold is unavailable easily. Got $1,000 for it. I did get a 2001 Toyota Corolla with 215,000 miles as a replacement. I don't like how the gas cap tightens, so I am going to replace that (it has a P0440, P0441 and P0446 codes), which are large Leak and it points to the gas cap being faulty, but it could be the purge valve and vent valve as well. The second issue is pending P0770 shift solenoid 1(A) code. That apparently is part of the torque converter lockup feature (I did notice today it shifted a bit oddly). Gas cap is extremely hard to tighten and have it click positively. It clicks but I think it is an aftermarket cap since it does not have the tether on it or Toyota part number on it. The car runs very well, nice and quiet down the road and no engine noises or transmission noises that are odd. Much easier on gas than the contour. Goes into ready mode very quickly on the readiness monitors (the contour had a problem getting the evap monitor ready since it constantly had a vacuum leak at the lower intake manifold

[@randy1ization]

Ivan if u ever come down to Texas let me know., have some really cool stuff you would enjoy seeing, driving and riding., 2000 bmw Z3 roadster , some honda CT70S, and some really good backroads to run them on. no need to get a hotel, I have a outbuilding with A/C and plenty of room to set a cot in. I have a 1970 honda z50 with a cracked crankcase we could tear down and put in another case I bought. Im just an old shade tree mechanic that loves wrenching and have learned so much abt these newer vehicles from your vids,, !!! your always welcome to stay at my little ranchette if you come to Texas.. no charge and treat u like family. im in central Texas./ formery went by TEXAS TOUGH.

[@theadmiral5425]

This is why I love my 54 Studebaker.....

[@igazmondo2542]

Ivan You are fantastic and excellent in troubleshooting. I do enjoy it myself. You have one of the best movies among Rays repair or south main auto etc... They are good also but after a certain time they are boring as they do again and again same stuff like brakes, suspension etc... Electrical troubleshooting with scopes and scanners are a real hard stuff. However 97% of the cases are related to home repair, Tunning and improper repairs - by amateurs. I do not see many Toyota cars in your "garage". Keep up good work

[@12wingwfetech]

Wonder why you do not see many Toyotas could it be that they are better cars ?

[@Nemesis-yn5wv]

Lol the m sport badging is an optional extra from Bmw when the car is new. Although there was once a time when a m sport badge meant it was an m sport.

[@luispatino3180]

The owner was so close to fixing the issue himself. He's probably super happy but if he's like me also kicking himself for not trying all the options with the parts he already had lol

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yes the blind parts cannon was close lol

[@vw5056]

At least he got a road trip out of it i guess.

[@TwilightZoneX]

Holy shit. I had to have a shot of Irish whiskey for early St. Patrick's Day, just by watching this video! Way over my head but my gosh, you are miracle worker?

[@richardnilsen8950]

Notice the technique Thats how to troubleshoot Great vidio 👍

[@patburnsent]

Ivan, to your knowledge with all these late model cars needing replacement modules, are there companies out there collecting them for possible repair or at least recycle or are they just being tossed into the trash?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Hmmm sometimes they take the core back... But usually it's trash lol

[@stevesisson4886]

Top of class Troubleshooter!!

[@jackpatteeuw9244]

Ivan the "BMW Whisperer" !

[@-DC-]

I was happy with a manual transmission indirect injection mechanical pump diesel Ford cranking the windows and switching on the lights myself , Modern vehicles are insane.

[@adotintheshark4848]

yeah why use three or four parts on a car when 20 will do?

[@rickgalla3377]

Keith would love this car, thank u Ivan from staten island

[@thomasbailey8306]

Bud Your going to have to Figure out how too Clone Yourself, here real Soon..LOL..People driving 15 hours away to get you to fix there Vehicles.That just goes to show how GOOD You are at what your doing..Great Job Sir..

[@mrjamespenske1881]

Need your diagnostics. Fly you round trip to Rockford IL. 08 e320 Bluetec needs help asap.

[@whiskeyfamily6717]

This is y I like old school cars

[@brianr9049]

15 hrs..insane

[@juancarloscrane8089]

IVAN THIS IS BETTER THAN GOIN TO SCHOOL GOOD THECNIIC VERY GOOD VIDEO

[@RandyInouye]

I love my 1997 Jeep Cherokee daily driver.

[@jaydee3046]

My present car is a 2006 model. No real modules or fancy screens in the dash that control everything. In 2007, this car got all the crap that you wind up troubleshooting. I feel like I dodged a major bullet. The car is a Chrysler product, which I think was the first manufacturer to have a car taken over by hackers.

[@AJ-wj9ij]

Sometime parts canon helps haa with a right tool good work Ivan

[@nickmalone3143]

CAN bus modules should be "optically isolated" if the CAN bus designers "did it right" . One module would not take out any others on the bus...this means communications to module on CAN bus is with led optical converter for signals on copper bus. A fiber optic bus would be way better as well

[@Bizija123]

How would I ever diagnose this as a garage DIY person without access to a 1200 dollar thinktool scanner? lol.

[@keno77]

I hope you are using jack stands before you get under the car, I didn't see if you use them but please do.

[@mikemuzzell5167]

Great video. I would have used my load pro instead of dragging the power probe extension wire around but obviously you love your power probe 🙄. Load pro could have told you all of your checks from a couple of measurements. We all skin cars differently.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

You need reliable battery power and ground for testing. Not sure how the LoadPro would be helpful here 😅

[@mikemuzzell5167]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnosticsI guess I just don’t understand then !?My bad 🙄.

[@dayntubee]

Your think tool pros is working great. Did you have to pay for additional downloads?

[@Autokey_Security_Services]

You should look into learning how to use E-sys ... Will help out alot in the future... other then that great video...

[@michelbrown1060]

My daughter works at mercedes Montréal She is service manager and they had a cruise control problem that would cu out with no reasons. . . Chande many parts to no avail. . ..Then they ask the customer if the trouble was manifesting somewhat at a certain place ? ? ? He thought about irt and said I think so. . . So they went on a test drive to the area of the trouble . . , there was a big Electric transformer and high voltage line not very up over head and for 3 tests, the Cruise control would switch off. . right under the power line. .The problem is a EMF shielding issue. . .? ?

[@jeremyah78]

Made that look easy Ivan!

[@_RiseAgainst]

Shift by wire problem? Who could have foreseen that?

[@norcal715]

I wish KZbin had a LOL option so I could apply it to you comment.

[@wazza33racer]

One module took out the other.

[@dealerauctionnightmare4689]

I'm surprised BMW and Mercedes don't have a module for each lugnut.

[@dealerauctionnightmare4689]

@T.J. Kong It wouldn't surprise me. It'll probably be a subscription-based diagnostic function too.

[@iceman9549]

Ivan is the Man 👍👍

[@larrystephens7437]

Inquiring minds want to know. Does he also own a chop shop or a BMW parts store! My frustration level would have been maxed out. I can understand why he drove 1,500 miles. Great video. Check, double check, triple check yep its bad... Next...

[@chevyj357n]

Great video very helpful. I have same issues similar car 750li xdrive same codes .my question is I'm new to using pico scope what are setting to do felxray test.dont want to keep buying modules to fix the problem.

[@dendkmac]

here we go...get the car crusher ready we have another BMW!

[@donk2831]

Worth the trip 100%

[@geek49203]

In the office, in the IT world, we have tools that can read all of the traffic on a given network. (Yes, we know what you're doing.) You can see the source of the data packets, the destination, etc etc. I don't see anything like that in the auto world?

[@olivier8264]

You mean a tannenbaum on the dash.

[@mikeleone7702]

I have no idea what you were doing but if I have an electric problem with my truck I’ll be driving to you I live in Rochester ny

[@neilmurphy845]

Why are all those modules replaced or messed with that car seems complicated

[@RK-kn1ud]

It's German. Over-engineering simple solutions is their specialty.

[@neilmurphy845]

@@RK-kn1ud Yes especially BMW

[@AW-ty5qi]

KL 15 is ignition feed 👍

[@udontknowme3699]

I have a mess it is and it’s not shift what where should you should I go to check

[@milesanhour]

The owner fired the parts cannon into the trunk.

[@titaniumman_22]

Does it add extra pressure when the customer watches you?

[@rickchowsr2532]

Banging head against the wall with these Euro vehicles. Why. Why all these modules oh yeah technology.

[@Garth2011]

The less people involved, the better in just about any situation. Here, we have a new module that wasn't programmed correctly and it was done by someone who know how to. Funny how a short to ground inside a module will not report that THAT module has a problem. What a farce in engineering software DTC's etc. Do we really need an engine oil level sensor these days? Anything wrong with a dipstick?

[@kennethbode2017]

Had to google flexray to see what it was. crazy car

[@johnnycartagena3605]

Nice work i learn a lot today sow cool thank you

[@wayneoldman7093]

I'm sticking to my Honda

[@publicmail2]

If BMW RUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNN! As Scotty would say.

[@randy1ization]

so, are the data packets digital signals 0 and 1, converted into sine wave pulses?

[@kerrylewis2581]

I love watching PHAD, but my head spins, trying to follow along at times. I now know trying to speak to german luxury cars doubles my head spin. Yikes. I'm going to lie down and rest for part two.

[@Jo-hannson]

awesome!

[@moayado436]

Great as always ivan I want to ask you what is the ista obd2 dongle ?

[@andrewward5737]

bmw oe scan tool

[@paulajones3856]

Usual BMW owner's thoughts....It's fixed....for now.....quick, unload this thing on craigslist or facebook.....tell the new owner never had any issues with this wonderful german work of art and good luck to you ....Haha

[@ryzen397]

its not aftermarket, the car prob has the m sport package.

[@ashone185]

Hello , does exist an little picoscope or kind of? The picoscope IS expensive for me

[@matthewdale174]

Pico 2204 150 bucks

[@ashone185]

@@matthewdale174 thanks you mate

[@GeneG-wk2mz]

Who sales high carbon rotors ?

[@cygnus58]

Who the hell else could go thru diagnosing multiple replacement parts one at a time. The client better damn well be excited. Didn't seem enthused. I guess after driving so long.

[@krakenwoodfloorservicemcma5975]

Give me a Yugo any day.

[@vw5056]

This is why I am not a fan of awd cars. Just more complexity, weight and stuff to break and maintain.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

But unrivaled traction in bad weather situations :)