Catholic Heretics and Fundamentalists w/ Trent Horn

[@bencook6585]

3 years ago i emailed Trent with a question about the Early Church and Catholicism. He sent me a copy of "The Case for Catholicism" for free. Last year my wife and I walked through it together as we were in RCIA, and at this past Easter we were brought into the church, and our two kids were baptized. (1 year old and newborn, at the time). I'll always be thankful for how Trent was instrumental in my conversion.

[@calebgasca]

@@bencook6585 That is amazing! Trent has a fire for bringing people home to Rome! He is a blessing to the church! God bless!

[@t.d6379]

Glory to God

[@AMDGBananaBen]

Welcome home!

[@mathieujvc]

How lovely, Deo gratias!

[@wonderfulfebruary]

Anthony Soprano has no respect for this thing

[@alissarehmert2502]

I grew up non-denominational and later became Southern Baptist/Calvinist. When I was investigating Catholicism (not even necessarily to convert, but to learn), I had MANY Protestant friends who were very concerned with me. One sent me a video by Mike Winger about the Church. I listened and decided to look up, "Catholic response to Mike Winger" and Trent Horn came up. I decided I would take a listen and the rest is history -- I was accepted into the Church this last Easter! I am SO thankful for Trent's work (as well as Joe Heschmeyer, who also greatly helped me as I discerned the veracity of the Church).

[@alisterrebelo9013]

Your friend and Mike Winger are not going to be happy knowing they are the reason you discovered Trent.

[@billymays7958]

Amazing!

[@conservativecatholic9030]

Welcome home. I have to admit, I am curious about what came of that friend.

[@alissarehmert2502]

@@conservativecatholic9030they're still Protestant and still anti-Catholic! Though, to be fair, this was a little over a year ago. 😊

[@elizabethking5523]

Praise be to God! 🙏🏻 These men helped me too! I was a Baptist (mostly😂) and I was invited to read some of the Church Fathers and Wow!!! And I found these knowledgeable men along with Scott Hahn. ❤️🙏🏻 I am soo grateful!! Blessings to you!

[@CateplaRazor]

Trent and Jimmy were the first ones that broke through to me last year. Fast forward and I’m a confirmed member of the Church. God Bless you Trent and the Pints channel!

[@bluecomb5376]

Beautiful. Praise God for your journey!

[@VTJVTTT110]

Welcome home! Glory to God!

[@janed811]

Praise God!

[@timothyreilly8394]

​@@bluecomb5376spoken like a true cultist.

[@ThomisticTheologyandPhilosophy]

“There is no such thing as a liberal Catholic or conservative Catholic. You are either a faithful Catholic or you are a unfaithful Catholic” - Fulton Sheen

[@Luke_19951]

It's a good point you make. Whether these youtubers are of good will or not I often wonder why they present it as a political parliament rather than a house of prayer.

[@mikeDeSales943]

Don't get too caught up in word play, everyone knows what you are talking about when you refer to Catholics as liberal or conservative. But yes, there are good Catholics like Fr. Ripperger, and bad Catholics, like Fr. James Martin.

[@hairypawter8475]

Trent horn puts his lens of Jewish ethnic pride, feminism and egalitarianism over Catholicism, distorting Catholicism.

[@MartinaStC]

​@@hairypawter8475 Jesus told us not to judge. Pray in faith for him not against him, God knows his heart and yours. We are creatures, fallen but in God's grace can follow the path of His Son if we are willing. It's hard, a hard path, and we fall, fail, condemn, judge without discerning what God's holiness path is, as He revealed and is revealing. Let us guide each other, carefully in gentleness, yet kindly pointing out ways of improvement but most of all in our prayers as Jesus heals not us regardless of our thoughts, opinions or intentions. Pray and be humble as Christ was in humility to God's plan and wisdom. Bless you and may God be with you x

[@hairypawter8475]

@@MartinaStC Christ was not calling us to kindness and apathy, he asks us to care deeply, to cleave from even our household if necessary. Mercy is for those who repent. Do not be fooled by those seeking to push meekness and apathy on their enemies as Trent does, Trent is a deeply disordered individual, i dont judge him and condemn him, as I am not his executor judge. I merely observe him doing wrong deeds and call them out as we all should. To put out errors and misdoings is the act of love we are called to. Its those excusing his false teaching and enabling him that are in the wrong, and not being loving. If you love someone to tell them to stop doing the disordered thing as its not good for them and others. Thats my thinking anyway. God bless

[@ParksLover]

Protestant here excited to start watching two of my favorite Catholics for three hours.

[@mchristr]

Another non-Catholic here, and who loves these two brothers. What an honest, candid conversation.

[@TheMoreYouSew]

Trent's debate with James White several years ago about eternal security was the first time I ever actually listened to a Catholic, I'm ashamed to say! And it totally blew me away. Now I'm in OCIA 😂

[@joker18524]

@@TheMoreYouSew that was my first stepping stone back to the Church

[@matthewodonnell6495]

That same debate made me really think, I was a big James White fan at the time, and I was anti-Catholic. I'm now in OCIA too! Glory be to God!

[@t.d6379]

Welcome home

[@MartinaStC]

May God be glorifed and Jesus be praised! Seek the sacraments and feed from them, God gave us them to help us in this earthly trial.

[@sivad1025]

Ha! I was debating Catholics on a Matt Walsh page and someone sent me the James White/Patrick Madrid debate. I watched that and then James White/Trent Horn was on auto-play. I was blown away by how badly James White did both times

[@punkdrummr2000]

Converting from Baptist..... Trent Horn is one of the catholics who knows the bible as well as most Protestants. Trent if you read this you are doing the kingdoms work. Your knowledge of scripture and your apologetics work is one of the main reasons i am converting.

[@matthewashman1406]

You can know something and still be wrong 😮

[@punkdrummr2000]

@@matthewashman1406 nah. A human? Wrong?

[@roseg1333]

@@matthewashman1406lol what? The Catholic Church isn’t wrong how did all the people that came before the Protestant reformation get saved?

[@matthewashman1406]

@@roseg1333 who saying they weren't saved? Not me

[@matthewashman1406]

@@punkdrummr2000 what?

[@thisis_chavez]

Prayers for the conversion of all Non-Christian Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us

[@vercingetorix5708]

I feel like Catholics and orthodox are over focused on bringing Christian’s into becoming Catholic and orthodox, and not concerned with bringing in atheists and non Catholics into the faith.

[@NHarts21]

Trent contributed so much to bringing me back home to the Church. He has taught me so much through his books, videos, and debates. He is truly doing the work of the Lord!

[@calebgasca]

Trent’s debate with Gavin Ortlund was the nail in the coffin to make me leave Protestantism. His videos helped me decide on Catholicism over Orthodoxy. Now I still watch and support him even though he’s a bit too liberal for my taste. Although that’s to be expected from a Catholic Answers employee. Thank you Matt and Trent for taking time to save me from the schism I was born into, and helping me find Christs church !!!

[@A_New_Crusade]

@@calebgasca !!!

[@amandaroussel9957]

I’m so curious what you find to be liberal? No shade. 😅I’m a convert to Catholicism for over 18 years and permitted drinking was a hard for me

[@TruePT]

Which debate did you watch specifically? I thought they had a couple debates? But I may be wrong 😅

[@calebgasca]

@@amandaroussel9957 I feel that he tends to be open to the modernist strain of Catholicism in a way to makes me a bit uncomfortable. I found that watching Trent Horn, helped me to dismantle my Protestantism, and my interest in Orthodoxy. However, when it came to building up my love for Catholicism I felt the need to look elsewhere. I think evangelism style that catholic answers uses is good at breaking down the protestant understanding of Christianity especially but is not the best at building up fullness and beauty of the Catholic faith. In less words I think he’s better fighting against Protestantism, less good at fighting for Catholicism if that makes sense.

[@calebgasca]

@@TruePT I think you may be right that they have done multiple debates. The biggest one for me specifically, was sola scriptura. Once you realize that it is false, all of protestantism becomes completely untenable.

[@familysim2905]

Speaking of fundamentalists, my husband asked his mother if she wanted to attend Mass with us. Her response was, “I’ve heard a lot of bad things about the Catholic Church. My answer is no and I hope you understand.” She was raised Church of the Brethren (Anabaptist). My heart sank. Lies and distortions are deeply embedded in “churches” of the Deep South.

[@PoppinPsinceAD33]

Have a discussion with her about what she has heard and why we practice some things. Understanding comes from dialogue

[@sebindavissebastian1991]

Prayers assured!

[@GaserBeam-hi4ez]

Sounds like your mother was very compassionate and polite in her denial of your invitation.

[@latinritepapi]

I feel the Lord calling me home to the Catholic Church. I was baptized as a baby, and whoever my godparents were didn’t do their due diligence in helping me walk with Christ. I was an atheist up until 3 years ago and I fell in love with theology. I feel my heart being tugged to the Catholic Church.

[@nomassgoer8350]

We would love to have you back! It’s never too late!

[@markjohnson1520]

follow your heart ❤❤

[@JustThankinJesus]

I’m confused about your godparents not doing their job? What about your parents? Maybe your Catholic godparents have been praying for you.. which you may not know about?

[@latinritepapi]

@@JustThankinJesus I wouldn’t know, I’ve had no contact with them for years, but from what I can remember they weren’t really devout followers. In the Catechism, Paragraph 1255, it states “For the grace of Baptism to unfold, the parents’ help is important. So too is the role of the godfather and godmother, who must be firm believers, able and ready to help the newly baptized-child or adult-on the road of Christian life.” I read this and was shocked lol, I was just always told that Godparents were 2nd in line to care for me incase my parents died.

[@elizabethking5523]

Come home brother!🙏🏻❤️ 😊

[@tirzaellesson6355]

I just started OCIA and this conversation has so far been such an encouragement. There are many topics I am wrestling with but I can definitely see the authority of Christ within the Catholic Church. Thank you, and God Bless!

[@mfowler18]

The most entertaining episodes of PWA are when Matt brings his best friends on. Their banter is top tier!

[@LaudateDeumMusic]

Happy feast of the guardian angels everyone!!!

[@God_my_Savior]

Happy feast! 😇😇😇😇😇

[@master_samwise]

2:33:35 Trent is not wrong, but the MCU was not always like that. Ten years ago, we were treated to Captain America and the Winter Soldier, which was far less glib and unserious than basically every superhero movie now, in addition to being just... really, really good.

[@DASding148]

@@master_samwise Winter Soldier was the one that made me lose hope in the MCU

[@Aldegundis]

"When Matt interviewed Ben Shapiro on Ben's show" is accurate 😂

[@joshuapizarro3231]

As a Protestant I enjoy listening to other Christians talk. It’s interesting.

[@rcwarrior868]

I buy "why we're Catholic" for my confirmation class every year as a gift. It's a great book for sure!

[@blakejohnson1264]

The people laughing in the background make it so much funnier😂😂😂😂 The vibes here are maxed out today🤣👌 God bless Matt and Trent

[@henry3613]

He should talk with Christian Wagner about “Catholic Fundamentalism,” they could have a good conversation

[@dr.tafazzi]

Wagner's a power tripping idiot

[@jud6651]

Trent doesn't seem to do well when talking to those more conservative than he is

[@dr.tafazzi]

@@henry3613 wagner is a power tripping tool

[@latronemastrucato7288]

​@@dr.tafazzi please don't behave like the people you don't like. Christian definitely isn't a tool. He's obviously quite smart. And I think his criticism on Trent's and Akin's view of the magisterium is valid and worth discussing

[@dr.tafazzi]

@@latronemastrucato7288 wrong

[@InvestmentJoy]

He's been knocking it out of the park here recently, you're doing great too Matt!

[@oswaldomaldonado1051]

As a person who considers myself a traditionalist I can honestly say that Trent Horn has been a steady compass always trustworthy. In the past few years I have definitely learned that the devil can get you to fall off of the path on the left or on the right. Everyone should stay on the path and be mindful of temptations that can push you off the path. Remember that the gate is narrow stay on azimuth and as we work to become more holy Trent Horn is a great helper.

[@milagroscapomasi8525]

1:04:00 As an Argentinian it always makes me happy when people talk about us! 😊 Yeah, there are many practices in my culture that I too can find cringey, but Ive also learned to respect peoples faithfulness to these symbols devotions and rituals, and see the beauty in that (even if the images, or the music are not self evidently beautiful)

[@Platosrepublican]

Thank you, Trent! An attitude I’ve often encountered with Catholic fundamentalists is arrogance and it has kept me and some of my family members out of the Church for a long time. It wasn’t until humbling myself to be open to Catholic teaching that I could get past the assumption that all Catholics were like that. Your humility and charity has been really helpful and I’m now considering becoming Catholic. God bless!

[@champagne.future5248]

That’s tragic and that scandal is something I really abhor. But Jesus’ number one adversaries were the Pharisees, the most superficially devout and hardcore Jews. This temptation is a constant in the Church and will always be a problem. The evangelicals call it the “religious spirit”

[@marcokite]

Ironic!! An attitude I’ve often encountered with Catholic modernists and pope-splainers like Trent is arrogance. The Traditional Catholics always seem very humble.

[@MichaelPCaruana]

I burst out laughing when Trent asked "what do you mean by burn?" And without a hint of hesitation Matt said "light it on fire" then Josiah is heard hollering in the background. Amazing interview

[@AntOfEgypt]

You guys are both awesome, may God continue to bless you in your ministries!

[@johnaugustyn9179]

I think some of the liturgical “pickiness” so to speak it regional for sure. After moving from the Catholic rich Midwest to the Bible Belt South (that only has one Catholic Church in the whole county), you start to have much more gratitude for any opportunity to be close to Christ in the Eucharist. So some of this pickiness, I think, stems from being fortunate enough to have all those options around. Without all the options. it forces me to be spiritually resourceful so to speak and not focus on all the “defects” of the local parish.

[@pizzadohpaz]

As someone who grew up in the Bible Belt, I think you have a great point. It forces you to be humble and accept the gift you are given in having the Eucharist at all, whatever the music or homily is like.

[@granthardy5897]

Love that Matt mentioned Theo von. Theo would be the type of comedian that would have a notable Catholic commentator in between a rapper and socialist lol

[@mrsgoemans-leith]

This episode was everything I needed. Waiting for another Laura Horn episode 🙏🏽

[@oerbaa]

Matt, this pertains to the early discussion about video lengths. I watch/listen to ALL your long form videos/podcast episodes. While I understand Trent’s perspective, please keep those long-form discussions! The longer the better! I listen to them while walking or driving and they are such a blessing. Just my two cents!

[@theresakendziora8992]

Party on Trent, Party on Matt....

[@jillmamma]

My son and I gave the Why We Are Catholic book to his friend at the occasion of his Confirmation into the Church as an adult. He was baptized Catholic and had his First Communion but never had been confirmed. My son had the honor of sponsoring his friend which he takes seriously. May God bless you!!

[@WordUp-y2v]

Thank you for this conversation on the importance of moderation! The vast majority of Catholics masses are celebrated in the Novus Ordo. I love it, particularly if celebrated reverently. We should focus our efforts on saving the atheists and other non-Christians instead of infighting.

[@redgoesface1671]

'Why We're Catholic' was the last push my family and I needed to finally start active steps towards becoming a Catholic. Wonderful book.

[@JohnHenrysaysHi]

I love Trent Horn! Thank you so much for having him on! Happy Halloween Hype month and Happy Feast Day of the Holy Guardians Angels! Psalm 90:11 "For he hath given his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.” Angel of God, my guardian dear, to whom God’s love entrusts me here, ever this day be at my side, to light and guard, to rule and guide. Amen. Hope you and your family has a light-filled peaceful joyful blessed October! Still praying for your wife's health in my daily Rosary, Matt!

[@nicoledidyk2669]

Trent, you make my KZbin time more valuable! Keep up the quality work. And Matt, same to you.

[@Ritts-Austin]

This podcast brought me joy today. Thank you gentleman

[@victorianoabana1103]

May the Blessed Mother help you Trent and Matt with the evangelization and in all things you do for Jesus!

[@christafarion9]

What about Jesus? Mary gets the title "blessed" but then the name of Jesus goes without any honorifics? Why? Why should the name of the Lord God fall sideways out of your mouth with no pomp or circumstance?

[@truhoneybadger]

This is one comment. Many would call him Our Lord or the Blessed Lord. However we believe the threat name of Jesus is holy and above all name. If we use Jesus as a Holy name in reverent trust why should we be ashamed of it?!?

[@truhoneybadger]

Typo* I meant to say the HOLY name but was auto corrected to "treat" for some reason

[@Commandosoap777]

i don't get why you would ask mary for anything tbh : like i agree mother of god and all etc but why ask her to help trent and not jesus himself? this sint just asking for mary to pray for trent this is assking her to help and that's something me and other prots just dont understand

[@MartinaStC]

​@@christafarion9Mary, the mother of Jesus, the virgin mother, whom the Holy Spirit of God who was her spouse, created in her the child Jesus, God in human form (as He entered into His creation to lead us to His realm) and who was announced by an angel (messanger) of God as blessed, who are we are mere creations of God to denign what He has declared. Even in Jesus's last moments, He, as Son of God, in the Trinity, gave His earthly womb carrier, Mary to his disciple John, and through Him to us to help us. Her, the Woman, spoken of throughout all scriptue, the new Eve, who said yes to God, a chosen earthly creation united in blood with Jesus in her womb, she, who is alive, when asked, speaks (prays) to her born child Jesus, who is the Word of God in the Trinity, for us. Jesus and God the Father love her, we can love her too, but God we worship and adore. And as Catholics, in the Univrrsal church, are blessed to eat of Jesus's flesh too to strengthen us although sinners, He is alive and real. And He told us so to do, His Word doesn't lie.

[@JJ-zr6fu]

The best thing coming out of this pontificate is Catholics realizing not every pope is a living saint.

[@DanielAluni-v2t]

@@JJ-zr6fu yeah, it is difficult to get a run of the mill Pope after a Great Saint and doctor of the church level theologian.

[@konnichibeaucoup4089]

and learning that catholic faith isn't just about theology-- pope francis' complete dedication to pastoral service and humility is a real inspiration to me, and i love that he shows the side of the faith that isn't concerned with grandeur and ceremony yk.... similar vibes as therese of liseux or francis of assisi

[@anng.4542]

But as another poster wrote, "A bad pope doesn't nullify the truthfulness of the Catholic faith."

[@igregmart]

Yea, I also think the current Heretic Pope is not a living saint. Is that your standard for having an acceptable Pope?

[@konnichibeaucoup4089]

@@igregmart the standard for an acceptable pope is "chosen by the holy spirit", which Francis was, regardless of what you think of him... we've had so much worse (cadaver synod, anyone? benedict IX?)

[@MartinaStC]

Brilliant! The honest conversation and it's genuine flow is so refreshing in these days when real honesty (and not one part of this coversation pledged 'poor me') is hidden. Thank you.

[@audreymarsh5090]

1:49:40 As a former flight attendant, I used to shame people for doing that. I worked on small planes (37 seats), and had no problems telling them that everyone could see what they’re watching, and hear what they were planning to do in the lav…. And your blanket really isn’t subtle. 😳🤷‍♀️

[@Deuterocomical]

Good to hear. I’m terrified of confrontation, so if this ever happens I might just tell the flight attendant instead.

[@audreymarsh5090]

@@Deuterocomical Technically speaking, in some countries (including the US) it’s illegal 🤷‍♀️ Just sayin’.

[@marijusp]

Jimmy Akin, Joe Heschmeyer and Trent are my favorite Catholic apologist. They benefited a lot to my returning to the Faith. Thank God that we have many good and faithfull apologists right now!

[@jjpom9538]

When these two men get together, ya better watch out! 😂 Always a good time. Truly makes me wish I was a bro w/ them. Could literally spend hours talking in nothing but 90s/2000s movie references, sharing catholic conversion experiences, all while enjoying a stogie or tobacco pipe!

[@bigwhale5840]

I protest

[@AdriannieBio]

Talking about fundy Catholics really helps me as someone who is in the process of converting to Catholicism but the Catholic community I’m surrounded by is a extremely fundamental. My Godparents are good friends with Taylor Marshal and it’s been EXTREMELY DIFFICULT as a baby Catholic.

[@josephwalters4016]

TM is awesome! Probably the most sound Catholic voice on social media.

[@dr.tafazzi]

​@@josephwalters4016he's deceitful and promotes schismatic talking points

[@T-bonz1]

@@AdriannieBio TM isn’t a fundamentalist, the guy gets thrown under the bus constantly for things he doesn’t even say, it’s because his subscriber numbers, it’s a game with these people.

[@E.R.Hewitt]

@@josephwalters4016 😂

[@aidan6444]

I'll be praying for you and your situation :) Keep the Lord close and do your best to give your anxieties to Him. God bless !

[@jacobfagan646]

1:00:43 Ive been thinking about this too, and my thoughts would be dont just leave bad Masses because their bad. As long as its a valid Mass Jesus is there, and thats the important point. Then, if youre in a position to elevate the liturgy, you can try to. Otherwise youre probably in the same position as 90% of Catholics in history

[@jacobfagan646]

@@deutschermichel5807 I would agree. Like, objectively it sounds bad and it'd be better if it weren't like that, but to to go from that to full incense and older hymns would shock the congregation, and probably would cause more harm than good

[@rickkrebsbach9278]

Wonderful, thought provoking conversation that I know 'bears much fruit'! Thank you Matt and Trent for all that you do!

[@TokenTech]

My wife found me online 3 years ago and we got married 3 months ago. It’s not easy but it’s possible

[@randimerrithew1520]

I’m not even halfway through this yet but I just wanted to let you know how helpful this is! As someone who has one foot in and one foot out, it is so helpful to know that some people really are perhaps too strict in what they think the average person HAS TO do to be a good Catholic. And I really appreciate what you were saying about maybe not understanding why some doctrines are what they are but choosing to be accepting of it despite not fully understanding. Thank you.

[@KingsleyFoska]

$450k Returns the Lord is my saviour in times of my need!!!

[@AndreHsieh]

wow this awesome 👏 I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, please how??

[@JulienTchotcho]

After I raised up to 325k trading with her I bought a new House and a car here in the states 🇺🇸🇺🇸 also paid for my son's surgery (Oscar). Glory to God.shalom.

[@SimplotElbie]

It's Ms. Susan Jane Christy doing, she's changed my life.

[@MorganJosh-p6p]

I do know Ms. Susan Jane Christy, I also have even become successful....

[@KanLedbetter]

Absolutely! I've heard stories of people who started with little to no knowledge but made it out victoriously thanks to Ms. Susan Jane Christy.

[@magdalenaterlecka3984]

Love the distinction/commonality between catholic L and catholic R - super helpful and indeed a soothing "balm" to hear it said, and in a respectful manner! Thanks for what both of you do!

[@ginomaietta2702]

I recently travelled to Europe and went to 2 masses, 1 in Ireland and one in Milan: they were awesome because they retained a sense of traditional while it was Novus Order. That's what the USA needs to "traditionalize" the liberals and to satisfy the trads. Why can't we have THIS discussion? The problem seems to be here...

[@mortensimonsen1645]

As a Norwegian, I think you are right.

[@mortensimonsen1645]

@@deutschermichel5807 Hmm. In our parish we have a number of different services in different languages (Polish, Spanish, Tagalog, etc). Each mass is quite different, the Norwegian mass is usually solemn I would say - compared to the Spanish mass. I am not sure if it's very Nordic, but at least "northern European". We sing Norwegian hymns, of course, even hymns written in our Protestant "era" (by protestant authors, even Martin Luther!!).

[@T-bonz1]

@@ginomaietta2702 This exists in America at the diocesan Churches that offer the TLM, they must perform a N.O Mass also. This is how my parish does it, I prefer the TLM, and you will have those who will not leave the TLM because they prefer the liturgy and prayers. Vatican 2 needs correction, but if you didn’t restrict the TLM and integrated into more parishes you would get more reverent N.O plus bring the communities together. The most important thing would be for content creators to stop this nonsense back and forth.

[@smartismarti4049]

​@@T-bonz1 I really appreciate your comment. Our parish also offers a TLM and has a beautiful NO, that is very solemn and traditional. They've reintroduced the altar rail, both priests are always ad orientum, and encourage orthodoxy openly. I had been going to mass with my husband (I was not Christian) in different parts of the country for 6 years before we moved here, and I didn't realize it at the time, but something about this parish finally brought me into the church. Their blatant condemnation of abortion, and reminding parishioners that voting for pro-choice candidates makes you complicit in the sin of abortion is what caught our attention the first time we went there. They are very traditional without rejecting the living magisterium. I wish we could attend the TLM, but the restrictions mean it's fold-up chairs in our parish hall and my toddler who has cerebral palsy can't kneel in there or sit on fold-up chairs. I really wish they could have the TLM in the main chapel. I think they do a wonderful job reaching that balance, that temperance that I love so much about Catholicism.

[@ginomaietta2702]

@@T-bonz1 Hi! I know what you're saying indeed. I was talking more in general about the reverence, the ambience, the music being more angelic, the church building etc. I did find this at a Maronite church here but it's out of the way to attend regularly. God bless you!.

[@benulfers6861]

The best part of this episode was Thursday laughing at his boss in the background. 😂

[@Sinea_anArtist]

Another point I think Trent is misunderstanding or not expressing properly is that Mass is not supposed to be “an expression of our love for God”. It’s the eternal sacrifice and it aught to be offered in a way that is pleasing to him. A beautiful Mass is arguably MORE important in poor communities because it separates Mass from their ordinary lives.

[@MartinaStC]

I think it's both. God also said through the phophets in a psalm that He also wanted a humble and contite heart. Sorry I don't have scripture in front of me to look up which psalm. Both is good, but our heart tells the truth, do we love and sacrifice our love to Him or do we just say creature words.

[@minnieshevlani4435]

I feel like people are always afraid to ask these questions about the HUGE differences in these opinions between popes. Thank you guys so much for being so honest and clear

[@Western-Supremacist]

I had no idea Trent was so funny.

[@lmmeg6575]

Congrats Matt & Cameron! ❤🎉 🍾

[@jasonanderson3460]

I’m thinking Deuterocomical is going to have fun using this interview for a future video.

[@nerlam1]

Trent, I watch on youtube, but always just listen while I drive or do menial tasks. Thanks for posting here!

[@aaronsmith5904]

1:30:00 we got Trent Horn and Matt Fradd singing pop songs before GTA 6.

[@phoenixsmith9433]

I really enjoyed your conversation in this podcast. I thought I'd share for posterity here. I came into the church this year after years of studying other religions and faiths after it really occured to me that God must exist. That moment was defined by kind of a philosophical point that always puzzled me in physics and also does, it seems to me, most physicists. In what way are we to understand time, specifically, how are we able to generate a theory of world mechanics without assuming time, but also leave room for dynamic change and relational conplexity that quantum physics begs us to believe. If the world was superdeterminisric, then time would be a block, and freedom is void. If everything is random, then the laws of physics should seem to drift or dance. This doesn't seem to be the case either way, so there must be more possible states than are realized in the formation of time, but this formarion must have some kind of boundry. In addition, there must be some manner in which to relate events toward each other that time may unfold as it dors, some greater context than the universe itself for time to make sense at all. This context for the ordering of events is similar another issue that came up for me; if we are all conscious and there is no greater context, then why do we all experience the same world. Competing perspectives of reality shouldn't be able to form a single world union like we do, which we dont even try to do or seem to have the choice to do. You could assume everyone is a philosophical zombie, but thats seems a mute point for me because you're just making yourself God then to get around everything. The simpler idea for me is that there is a grand context/consciousness who gives relation to moments for their ordering that we perceive as time and allows us to enhabit the same world/context. This context is then the source of being and creator of the world. After getting past this, I studied most religions and found Jesus and joined his Holy Church.

[@momoffive5606]

Trent Horn is fantastic.

[@marcokite]

Pope-splainer Trent talking about pope-splainers!! what a joke!!

[@rachellewood813]

I especially enjoy Matt’s three hour discussions when we discuss boy bands 😂This is a great one! Thank you Matt and Trent for helping me smile today, may the Lord bless you and your families 🙏🏽

[@hopefulforhumanity5625]

When I was an exhausted home schooling mother of 6 children, I often felt overburdened by all the practices i thought I should be doing. Daily rosary, daily Mass, scapular prayers, devotionals, novenas.

[@duathellto1460]

It's helpful to know general minimums and maximums. From what I hear, theologians say we owe God 15 min. of daily prayer, in justice. And St. Josemaria Escriva recommended laypeople not go beyond 2 hours of daily prayer, based on the principle that we have to fulfill the obligations of our state in life before adding extras. In between is the discernment area.

[@clattereffect]

"Your not on the team if you don't pray the rosary!" Where have I heard that one? 🤔 Trent Horn is one of the Catholic apologists out there who brought this cradle Catholic back to the faith after being away for many years, along with Scott Hahn, Jimmy Akin, Catholic Answers. The first Catholic influencer that got me started back was Bishop Baron. I have also watched much of the content from the Catholic fundamentalist channels out there and I felt that their content was just sowing discord and creating division in the church. I stopped watching all these Catholic fundamentalist channels awhile ago. They're too toxic!

[@SonnyJomali]

What’s wrong with fundamentalism ?

[@discussingsplinterlands7728]

Those "fundamentalists" are just holding the line. It only looks like creating division to "feel good Catholics" who in fact are the ones that create the division. Don't blame the people who are truly believing in God for doing what you are not willing to do.

[@clattereffect]

@@discussingsplinterlands7728 "Holding the line" 😂Do your soul a favour and read the Bible instead of being the "gatekeeper" of the Catholic faith and trying to do the job of the Holy Spirit! Good luck with your fundamentalism in life!

[@rickymendez5398]

What does a feel good Catholic even mean? Watching Catholic fundamentalists KZbin videos or reading comments such as yours exude an air of arrogance or superiority. Trent’s observations on fundamentalists was totally fair

[@bilbusbungledore7222]

Why does it matter? Every ism and belief leads to Christianity so who cares?

[@elizabethblake6287]

I love getting in about an hour and a half and these two old friends have reached "giddy boy mode" -- quoting and giggling, a little distracted, still intelligent but definitely a side of Trent I've never seen before.

[@elijahnelsonmusic6856]

Matt! When are you starting a band with Trent! Your voices are beautiful together. 🥲🥲🥲

[@shannonmaria22]

Two of my favorite Catholic content creators! ❤ Thank you both for all the great work you do.

[@michaelsterling2650]

I am a Anglican Christian. The dogma of the assumption of Mary holds me outside of the church. I believe in her divine motherhood, perpetual virginity, and immaculate conception. This one singular dogma keeps me outside of the church, the church that I believe to be the one true church. There is not one other point of contention, yet this one position that I’m required to hold to be within the church. So, help me understand this dogma.

[@fantasia55]

Enoch and Elijah were bodily assumed into heaven, but you refuse to accept Msry was also.

[@saoirseryan4141]

Give MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS from POPE PIUS XII a read. 💙

[@champagne.future5248]

It’s actually two because it means you don’t believe in the infallible magisterium. Obedience to the authority of the Church is not reliant on you understanding every doctrine.

[@stormchaser9738]

I’m a convert to Catholicism from Protestantism. The last holdup for me was the set of Marian Dogmas, particularly the assumption. Ultimately, I realized that believing in a visible church and accepting its doctrines as revealed by God was the step in faith that God had been asking of me. If I’d come to be Catholic merely because I had independently researched each position and sided with Catholicism each time, then I would be in the Church but with a Protestant mindset. The final authority would still be me and my Bible reading. So I ended up saying to God “I believe you built this Church. I don’t understand everything but I trust you,” and I joined. Since then I’ve come to believe in the assumption through reason as well, but I’m glad God didn’t have me do that first.

[@smartismarti4049]

I'm not smart enough to recount it, but Brant Pitre's book "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of Mary" was really great. It goes through each of the dogmas, scriptural support, and their Jewish roots, as you might guess.

[@jenzimmerman9079]

I appreciate listening to both Pints and Council of Trent as audio podcasts.

[@johnhoward374]

"Who says pray the rosary daily?" - Trent Horn OUR BLESSED MOTHER!!

[@nomassgoer8350]

In a private statement, one that does not need to be believed. Should we pray the rosary? Yes! Do we have to? No. That was the point he was making. Watch the video, and think.

[@johnhoward374]

@@nomassgoer8350 woopsy I missing dat part me so dumb scuseme

[@chrisnewberry6691]

​@@johnhoward374 it would really help if you had a time stamp.

[@mitchhaight7517]

"Reflect upon what has been assigned to you, for you do not need what is hidden. Do not meddle in what is beyond your tasks, for matters too great for human understanding have been shown you." - Sirach 3

[@MartinaStC]

What point of the podcast are you referring to exactly, please?

[@johnsayre2038]

Re: seeking exoticism in liturgy. My unsolicited two cents...stay with your roots, stay with the hand you're dealt and work to make the Liturgy more beautiful. Introduce your sphere of influence to music that you think is better than what is on tap (thinking of most N.O. parishes here). I'm trying to walk that talk at the moment. It ain't easy. But it's not going to get better if we just accept the subpar music as a foregone conclusion. I want better for my grandchildren. Stay and suffer, It's the Catholic way ha! 😊

[@Spartacus-hc9xt]

Trent is just the best

[@thatsfunny2051]

Backstreet Boys released certified bangers and you can't change my mind. You should get one of them on the show

[@TribuneOfHistory]

Diddy loves the backstreet boys and the boy's backstreets. Am I allowed to have this kind of humor?

[@merseabless8305]

Daily mass, working on daily Rosary and daily visits to Blessed Sacrament! These leads to wanting to confess and participate in the sacraments

[@tagarikamaruza8263]

I am 25min. I really like Dr. Marshall and I really like Trent Horn. One thing I have come to realize is that Catholic Content creators would do good if they had a conference, got together and ironed out some issues on approach. The video rebuttal battles or name calling (I disagree with the Synod and Vatican II but I detest the word Popesplainer) doesn't help the parts you agree on, the fundamentals that actually matter at the end of the day. God Bless and Keep up the good work Trent Horn

[@T-bonz1]

@@tagarikamaruza8263 Catholic YT is a mess. IMO Marshall gets thrown under the bus for what other trad content creators actually do and say. It’s because he’s got the most subscribers and there’s a jealousy. My advice, watch the smaller channels that are built on talking about the fundamentals. Unfortunately what you are seeing is real and it’s basically devolved to CNN and Fox.

[@littlerock5256]

Ecumenical Councils are infallible and binding. There is no disagreeing. What do you take issue with?

[@tagarikamaruza8263]

@@littlerock5256 in that case, wjere is the place of pride given to the Gregorian chant? it was a council tainted by free masonic influence amd protestantism...just research on that please

[@littlerock5256]

@@tagarikamaruza8263 Gregorian Chant was not mandated. It Apparently, prelates have deemed it not possible. Are you saying that VCII is not a Catholic council?

[@tagarikamaruza8263]

@@littlerock5256 it was a hijacked council. I attend SSPX by the way. V II was a gateway for confusion and heresy...which we are seeing crystalize in some papal interviews, church abuse scandals and some of heretics invited at the synod.

[@ChaplainDaveSparks]

Strangely (speaking as an evangelical), _protestant fundamentalism_ is *also* centered upon tradition. For example, the KJV Only protestants. It would be _circular reasoning_ to lump it into _sola scriptura,_ since it’s *ALL* about Scripture. It’s about the closest protestants come to the ”Traditional Latin Mass Only” Catholics. It makes _Elizabethan English_ the de facto _”sacred language”_ of worship/study.

[@bobbyforrest661]

Name a saint of recent centuries who didn't pray the daily rosary? I am sad that Trent chose the rosary as an example to illustrate Catholic fundamentalism. Big mistake in my opinion because our lady asked at Fatima that we pray the daily rosary. It's a joy not a burden to pray the rosary.

[@bobbyforrest661]

​​​@@deutschermichel5807 if a mother tells her children to pray it then it's advisable. One prays the rosary out of love for a mother not out of duty. You are correct you don't have to pray it if you don't want to. There are dozens of papal documents on the rosary more than any other prayer so it should not be dismissed lightly like Trent did in this podcast. Who says you have to pray the rosary? Just our Lady, the Popes, the mystics and the saints. I think I will follow their example.

[@bobbyforrest661]

@@deutschermichel5807 thanks for the heads up on being of the line of Pharisees. I already said you don't have to say it but it's advisable according to the Popes, saints and mystics.

[@maryangelica5319]

Basically most of saints of the Eastern churches?

[@bobbyforrest661]

​@@maryangelica5319 They are a tiny fraction of the Catholic world I think you know I was referring to the Latin Church. As Padre Pio advised 'the Rosary is the weapon for these times'.

[@brandonmason3311]

@@bobbyforrest661Trent didn’t say the Rosary is fundamentalist, he said that saying “you’re not on the team” if you don’t say the Rosary (direct quote of Taylor Marshall), strongly implying that you do HAVE to say the Rosary and therefore binding up Catholics with an unnecessarily heavy burden, is fundamentalist (and pharisaical if you want.) It’s good, very good and sanctifying to say the Rosary. Trent would agree. However, you obviously do not have to say it to go to heaven, become a saint, or be “on the team”. You agree with that. If Trent is properly understood, you agree with Trent. It pricks at your subjective sensibilities for one reason or another but objectively it seems that you have no issue with what he said

[@mofumofutenngoku]

It's always fun listening to you two ramble on.

[@rosecorcoran]

My one question re: not needing the death penalty in order to protect society, is what about the segment of society who is in prison? That is, if someone in prison r*pes or kills other prisoners, what do you do to them at that point?

[@kailaleebabineau3962]

Also, what about the criminals that are horrifically violent and smart enough to escape, like Ted bundy

[@crusaderACR]

Pope Francis didn't officially change any teaching. The Church still allows supporting the death penalty.

[@juanspyro4658]

​@@crusaderACR actually no he did, it's now a grave sin to go against the teaching. It's really unfortunate Before 2018 (1997 version of CCC 2267): > Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person. Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity 'are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.' After 2018 (current version of CCC 2267): > Recourse to the death penalty on the part of legitimate authority, following a fair trial, was long considered an appropriate response to the gravity of certain crimes and an acceptable, albeit extreme, means of safeguarding the common good. Today, however, there is an increasing awareness that the dignity of the person is not lost even after the commission of very serious crimes. In addition, a new understanding has emerged of the significance of penal sanctions imposed by the state. Lastly, more effective systems of detention have been developed, which ensure the due protection of citizens but, at the same time, do not definitively deprive the guilty of the possibility of redemption. Consequently, the Church teaches, in the light of the Gospel, that 'the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person,' and she works with determination for its abolition worldwide.

[@juanspyro4658]

@@deutschermichel5807 Except this principle even applies to third-world countries-they do not have the resources to house criminals in the same safe manner as first-world countries. The Catechism implies that because of our effective systems in place, we shouldn't use the death penalty-but now there are no exceptions. Even if I agreed we should lock criminals up forever, what happens if society were to completely break down? Any new society would still be bound by this teaching, even with the collapse of infrastructure. When a natural disaster occurs, survivors must deal with the local prison population, not only in the short term but also in the medium term. You brought up the point of slavery as one that evolved; however, technically, you can still compel labor-some prisoners are forced to work due to their crimes. There's nothing in the catechism against this as long as you "uphold their dignity." But even ignoring that, slavery as it's better understood should never be compelled toward the innocent. If society were to break down tomorrow, actions like slavery, murder, rape, apostasy, stealing, and abortion would all still be wrong-they're not dependent on infrastructure. So clearly, even with social issues like that, there are sliding scales. The language of always impermissibility for something that is so clearly tied to assumptions on infrastructure is unreasonable to me. You know what other things we should strive to do but are also contingent on infrastructure? Offering hospitality to migrants and refugees, caring for the poor and vulnerable, providing access to healthcare, and ensuring education for all. These are teachings from the Catechism that encourage us to help others, but they're inherently dependent on the resources and infrastructure we have available. If we fall short in these areas due to limitations beyond our control, it's understood that we've done what we can under the circumstances-it's a matter of contingency. So, it seems inconsistent to declare the death penalty always impermissible without considering practical realities. Just as with these other moral directives, there should be room for flexibility based on societal capabilities. Of course it's my personal opinion that even rich countries should be able to carry out executions, but I can acknowledge that it may be an untenable position in the future, but I really dislike the whole impermissible in all scenarios language currently presented

[@yvettekraft2371]

Matt Fradd and Trent Horn reminiscing and singing Backstreet Boys on the same podcast was not on my bingo card for this year 🤣💕

[@JohnSmith-yr1dc]

I get that Trent is a liberal and didn't care for the "Christ is King" episode, so I won't get into the weeds of the particular "odious beliefs" of those involved or his selective representation of them. Like he says, political and secular beliefs that are not strictly defined by the magisterium are discretionary so he's entitled to his opinion on them. But what I find despicable is that Catholics are fine with the implication made by most Catholic (and assorted Christian) apologists that it's fine to be a liberal before you are a Christian. Trent and other apologists are happy to entertain debates with atheists, muslims, jews, and pagans - William Lane Craig just debated an apologist for Isis in Syria. But neither he nor his fellow travellers would ever dream of giving a fair hearing to people too "far right" because liberal values say they're radioactive and can't be associated with to any degree. Sorry, but whatever you think of their politics good or bad, denying Christ is worse. Christ is a Christian's highest value, far higher than fighting bigotry or whatever "ism" we're supposed to be appalled by. But you'd never know it watching their utter lack of fervor in defending Christ's honor. You can see it here - denying the events of WWII? Absolutely scandalizing, beyond the pale! Denying Christ? Well that's an academic question, maybe you good gentleman could join me for a debate.

[@Wilkins325]

The issue is that unfortunately, many online Catholics are falling into the trap of overreacting to leftist views against Christians, against white people, etc. by being hateful in return. This is not of God and is merely falling into the traps of Satan. Trent is intelligent enough to navigate this issue with care and in keeping with Christian morality. This overreaction I refer to is racism as an emotional response to the bullying many have experienced by leftists.

[@mrscharmless]

I wouldn’t say that they think denying Christ is a “fine academic question”. The main reason for why we even have Christian apologetics and debates with people of other faiths in the first place is because we’re trying to introduce Christ to non-believers. A debate can be a good opportunity to proclaim the gospel and both instruct the ignorant and admonish sinners.

[@Commandosoap777]

how is trent a "liberal" he cosnsitently goes after liberals espically these last 2 months on the election loool face it the evidence shows the "christ is king " and "christian nationionalism" is negatively correlated with church attendence you guys are just weird

[@brendanlove9739]

Trent is a… “liberal” 😂 That’s jokes

[@rickymendez5398]

A liberal? Man I am interested in hearing what you think is conservative and liberal lol

[@ANubKaL]

I think when Taylor Marshall says, “If you’re not praying the rosary everyday, you’re not part of the team”, he’s not saying people are not Catholic. He’s raising the bar. He’s challenging you to do more. We shouldn’t be doing the bare minimum. His channel is not geared towards atheist. If I had a friend who is going to church on Sundays and confessing 1 time a year and that’s it. I would challenge him to do more.

[@juliushavsten]

This is a difficult comment for me to write as I haven't really "made peace" with my past in full. So please take it with some charity. I was involved in national socialist groups and held very national socialist views. A life I have since then left and I am not involved in any such things. But in going through that I learned a lot of things about both the ideology of national socialism and the history of WW2 and leading up to it. And even though I can see it for what it is, evils and all, there are things that I learned that I cannot reject and agree with the "normie narrative" on. I really don't like getting into this topic but I kinda have to as it's used as the measuring stick by so many people for "evil". By people who haven't been on the other side and cannot look at anything positive or misrepresented about it. I am Catholic, a husband and father and don't hate for no reason. I don't plan on continuing this discussion on KZbin, but I wanted to share my point of view if someone can identify with it, as it's very isolated position to be in and not being able to discuss it honestly and objectively. God bless.

[@drmichellecalvarese]

1:00 mark on switching churches. I believe that the people that bounce around looking for the exotic have lost Jesus. I don’t think it’s about religion at all at the that point-it’s a personality flaw. I walked the Camino in 2019 and it was funny how many people I came across that looked down on people that didn’t do “all the things” that made them “real” pilgrims. I would shake my head and think to myself “you’re a pilgrimage for goodness sake.”

[@CheddarBayBaby]

So who’s gonna bring up the fact that Timothy Gordon thinks space is fake now…?😂

[@rickygcfo]

He believes in geocentrism

[@CheddarBayBaby]

@@rickygcfo equally idiotic

[@Heracleetus]

I think Tim Gordon is fake. More seriously though, people need to stop saying crap like "so and so thinks space is fake! Turhurrr! Such and such denies the holo-thing! Teehee! Whatzisname denies climate change! Hurrhurrhurr!". It's not the dunk you think it is. There are very valid and incredibly persuasive reasons to be skeptical of such things, whether they're real or not, and the vast majority of people who get made fun of for questioning these things aren't questioning them out of stupidity but out of spending time with the compelling evidence.

[@nickmctasney8247]

@@rickygcfo no, he had a guy on and was willing to listen, later on he said he wasn’t convinced.

[@Maccelerate]

The virgin ad hominem vs the chad trad

[@GaserBeam-hi4ez]

My sweet Catholic friend (and her friends) are far right fundie Tlm Catholic, she’s well intentioned but they don’t consider Trent and Matt normies, they consider them evil and liars. I’m not a Catholic, and love my Catholic friend, but that’s how they view it, not normies, but evil liars who ruined the church. I hope she chills on it a bit.

[@danielm1991]

Is it possible to start a go fund me for a trent vs marshall jiu-jitsu match

[@MartinaStC]

My humble opinion, is bring a girl on a real camping trip where there are no mirrors, no makeup, no phone reception, no maods, just a tent, some food needed to be cooked, thanksgivening to God, conversation, beautiful landscape and no real comfort. For a long weekend or a week. Likewise for males on a date (real men, born men, not those with an indentity crisis.). That will show people as they really are in discomfort and willingless to love and give.

[@RMJK727]

I would love to know their opinion on Anglo- Catholics / Reformed Anglicans

[@MartinaStC]

Thank you God for guiding their podcast, it has helped me see and understand more at around 57:30 ish especially and a bit further..

[@DeadEarthTheory]

I’m definitely sure i disagree with Trent horn, and I am glad I chose Orthodoxy over Rome.

[@littlerock5256]

I suggest that Trent and/or Matt have a Catholic on, perhaps someone from the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation or John Farrell of Annulment Proof, the NFP guy.

[@lindaharper2870]

Cool chat gents! Always an easy flow when you get together 🧑🏻🧑🏼

[@theurzamachine]

2:05:00 - Gasing people in these "Gaswagens". Hey Trent, did you know that the communists in the USSR were the first to use Gaswagens? Did you know that the man who pioneered its usage was "David Isai Berg"? What do you think his ethnicity was? He worked for the NKVD which starved 6 million Ukrainian Christians in the 1930s. The leader of that organization was "Genrikh Yagoda". What do you think his ethnicity was?

[@fireball1281]

That is correct but doesn’t have anything to do with what he said. He never said mass killings was something unique to nazis. He has definitely brought up communist crimes before on his shows and talks

[@theurzamachine]

@@fireball1281 They always tell you that they're the victims but they'll never tell you why.

[@nickmitchell5568]

​@@theurzamachineno reasoning with a Holocaust denier. Sounds like someone's off their meds!

[@zita-lein]

Loved this! ❤️💙

[@AdithiaKusno]

Min 40:00 Trent Horn argues that slavery was descriptive but not instructive which at later social development can be reformed by the Church. The question then what's the principle that distinguish slavery alone from other moral questions such as can women pursue secular career outside of home? Remember in 1970 women can't open bank accounts in America. What's the principle that delineates slavery alone as unique compared to other moral questions such as homosexuality or woman ordination?

[@misterkittyandfriends1441]

I view this through a similar lens as the death penalty. Slavery was *regulated* or a tolerated evil in scripture as a part of the ancient world economy. The alternatives to slavery were often ongoing violent tribal feuds or genocide in the ancient world. We have better options today (eg prison camps, hostage exchanges, etc) and we have good reasons that people should never be enslaved (all humans are fully human, which suddenly became an open question in the early days of science and taxonomy). We simply have no reason to tolerate it today, and it took a while for that to be realized against various secular movements and influences from slaving cultures. Homosexuality is condemned in scripture. Female ordination is condemned explicitly and implicitly. The female and male distinction is very firmly rooted in Genesis. Another example of something regulated by scripture is lending at interest, and usury is still illegal. It has developed over time, too. Having to work as a servant due to personal misfortune for a limited amount of time was basically a distributed form of social welfare that was made illegal along with slavery in America. While indentured servitude can be abused, I don't think it is evil, we just have better options. So basically, consistently applying scripture and underlying principles of justice. I still think married couples having separate financial accounts is weird, but its a secular and cultural thing, not a religious development. Single women were opening bank accounts in colonial America.

[@crusaderACR]

​@@misterkittyandfriends1441 What the Bible and the Church had called slavery is what you called indenture servitude right there. The true argument here is that you're right in that indentured servitude isn't inherently evil, just prone to abuses, which is why it was banned and the Church doesn't allow the practice now. Chattel slavery of the triangle trade, (which in America you just call "slavery") has been condemned by the Catholic Church since forever.

[@crusaderACR]

What I mean to say is that no moral question is different. We may go for more nuance, but never will it be the case that something that wasn't evil becomes evil, and viceversa. This may be a tough post, but hear me out. When it came to slavery, the way the Church commanded how it should work "in the books" looked like indentured servitude, except even softer. Entering voluntarily, have a way to leave, absolutely no beatings, yadda yadda. Thing is, by the 19th century the Church realized no one ever follows the books, and banned it altogether. There's no reason why women shouldn't work or open bank accounts. The traditional teaching is that mothers only ought to work if their motherly duties didn't suffer for it. In cases of poverty women could work in any case. Nay, in that case they MUST work. It's ridiculous to expect that a Church that lived through the Middle Ages had taught that women shouldn't work. What, you're gonna tell a medieval farmer his wife shouldn't help feed the chickens? Help out in the shop? The concept of a career is more modern, but the aforementioned rules still applied. At a time there was a fear that following a secular career may impede a woman to responsibly have a family, as in that case she may have to choose one of both, or find a way to work that career part time or from home or something. So a "secular career outside of home" may still not be prudent for some women (if they want to follow the Church teaching of not neglecting the duties of a mother), but all that depends on the circumstances.

[@BrewMeister27]

@@AdithiaKusno Homosexual acts and female ordination are intrinsically sinful. They are never permissible, under any circumstances. Forced labor, often called slavery, is not intrinsically sinful. However, there is a limited scope for where it's permissible. One example would be forcing prisoners to do their own laundry.

[@marysalz1497]

Great show! Very interesting and informative along with funny.