Should Ben Shapiro Become Christian? (Andrew Klavan)

[@pintswithaquinas]

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[@RobertPentangelo]

Why not have Shapiro debate Brother Peter on the topic: Are the Jews still God's Chosen People?

[@RobertPentangelo]

No interest in having Candace Owens on-does it go against (neo) conservative N.O. Catholic rules?

[@johnpolitis7929]

Sure and he. can become a member of the Syriac Church, the first generation of Trinitarian monotheists that have the same exact lifestyle, liturgy, and chants that the Apostles had and in the same way Yemen Jews live exactly live Moses. It's better than being a Tague or a Prod as they are Western.

[@thomascherrington5963]

The reason something is valuable is because of its rarity and importance. Life does continue that is clear. But life that continues forever lacks the key piece that makes this one so impactful time matters and is fleeting and the most valuable commodity God gives us. How else could such a short drop of time in the infinite make any difference.

[@chrisiswright]

When Alec Guinness was playing Fr Brown, he was touched by a young French boy who mistook him for a real priest. The boy took his hand and started chatting with him. The experience was so profound for him that he converted to Catholicism

[@rahawa774]

I love this!

[@peterplaysbass]

Alec Guinness? Genuine class!

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

THAT sounds just strange enough that I'll Buy it.

[@marinanguish9928]

Great story.

[@ThomasReeves-s7u]

@@stevenwiederholt7000 His conversion was a bit more involved than that, but it does seem that incident made him realize the prejudices about Catholics he was raised with (Scientist Fred Hoyle, maybe a year older than Guinness, said that when he was a boy it was a custom to throw rocks at the boys coming out of the Catholic school and that the Catholic boys would run in fear) were unfair. Then Guinness's son contracted polio and he found a Catholic Church more helpful than his native Anglican it seems. So in a way it was the start of his conversion or his conversion might not have happened without it. Being kind and provided help to the ill has kind of been a source of converts from the Antonine Plague to now.

[@akc783]

The problem I have with Andrew Klavan’s points of view is he seems to approach the Bible like “I want it to read like this, therefore it must…”. I used to make that mistake as well but I have seen how wrong I was.

[@TheArbiterOfTruth]

I agree.

[@TheWiery322]

The problem is, he's a subversive Jew

[@BeyondTheRubicon]

I agree, but Klavan is a human being and human beings are fallible, we all are. I think Klavan is an important voice, Ben Shapiro is as well, and so is Matt Fradd. We all have perspectives to offer, even if we all get some things wrong.

[@chrisdotson3520]

I think that Klavan's viewpoint is actually more historically orthodox than the western evangelicalism most of us experience today. We cannot judge who will be saved and it all ends either with mercy or without at the final judgement.

[@arthurgrey8967]

His take is reflective of the Catholic Catechism. Its not a personal interpretation of scripture to suit his preconceived desire like sola fide which is demonstrably anti biblical. We don't know how God will judge those who have never even heard of Christ or Christianity. We can only speculate. Or those with impaired intellect or brutal life experiences. The resistance is that some have placed their "merit" in acknowledging Christ as the ticket to their salvation, but Christ contradicted that belief countless times. And without it they worry rightly it means something else is required of them for salvation.

[@anglocatholic08]

Christ is the only way to the Father. There are no exceptions.

[@nerdydrew6818]

So are all people who have never even heard of Christ, or the Abrahamic God all damned?

[@Grandlett]

​@@nerdydrew6818might be!

[@oxysz]

@@nerdydrew6818no there are people in heaven who have never heard of Christ Jesus . But they trusted in God alone and not themselves ..

[@anthonyayoub6096]

@@nerdydrew6818 “Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience-those too may achieve eternal salvation” (CCC 847). From the catechism . Jesus is the only way to the Father, but of course there are non Christians in heaven

[@christinasailorluna7323]

@@anthonyayoub6096 Exactly. I don't think Jesus would be ok with a Christian saying "We're better than everyone else". That's a sinful thought right there.

[@Tabatista281178]

This is a very tough conversation, and I’m glad to be Catholic, because what I think is completely irrelevant. Sin is what God revealed, not what I think it is. To be saved, I must do what God commanded me to do, not what I think. I may not fully comprehend, I may not agree, but it’s not about me.

[@TheArbiterOfTruth]

I’m not Catholic, but I agree. We know what God requires for salvation, we know what he wants us to do and what is best for us. And he gives us the tools necessary to survive this life.

[@same5songseveryday]

God reveals life.

[@Thomas-oc2ln]

To be saved you must have faith in Christ. Jews do not have faith in Christ, as such they reject God. Any jew who does not explicitly convert to Christianity will be damned. It's not a hard topic, really. We've already been told who will be saved and who will not. No one comes to the Father without the Son.

[@sergiochavez722]

@@Thomas-oc2ln that is actually catholic aka christian propaganda. The actual word of God says otherwise. the letters of paul are not the word of God.

[@Thomas-oc2ln]

@@sergiochavez722 Are you Muslim or jewish?

[@tomgnau]

"I have no vote on who gets saved." Conversation really should have ended there. I know nothing about Ben Shapiro, but I do know that *my* sins can send *me* to hell.

[@RobertPentangelo]

But you can have an effect on it-hence the Great Commission.

[@TigerHawkZ3]

Andrew Klavan is so disconnected from Scripture. Jesus made is clear that he is exclusively the only way to God. John 14:6.

[@chrisdotson3520]

I think the key is the "way." Klavan is saying some may be on the "way" without knowing it is Christ. They are serving Christ without knowing it through their actions.

[@ivaselinemyween]

@@chrisdotson3520 I don’t think Jesus is guiding anyone to call for the violent extermination of palestianians and laughing at people getting their balls blown off

[@kentzepick4169]

@@chrisdotson3520Amen

[@kentzepick4169]

Yes, salvation is only through Christ but that’s not the same thing as saying that people must always openly acknowledge belief in Christ, especially if they nothing or next to nothing about Christ.

[@jd3jefferson556]

Pagans in the America's 1000 years had never heard of Christ. Could those people still be saved and in heaven? Ben, however is given an abundance of opportunities to learn the Christian faith

[@peterzeller5736]

Good Person ≠ Christian

[@anthonyayoub6096]

True! But also bad person ≠ Christian, And good person ≠ non Christian. Follow Jesus = follow love

[@amberclear7016]

Not true. A Christian is someone who believes in some very basic things--foremost Jesus is God and the second Person of the Trinity. CS Lewis gas a great book called Mere Christianity.

[@grit1679]

Christian ≠ Good Person

[@tagunprice9762]

Genuinely curious, if you are a bad person, but you believe Jesus died for your sins, are you a Christian?

[@ComedianBobFarrell]

The only person in the human race who is good. is JESUS. JESUS is GOD'S only begotten SON. The rest of us are sinners. We have broken GOD'S laws. If we were good, then JESUS dying on the cross would be pointless.

[@fsnicolas]

Awesome clip. I appreciate Andrew's views and humble surrender to God's judgment. I remember what Trent Horn said, "We are judged by how much God has revealed to us." May the Lord lead us all closer to Him and His Truth.

[@cazwalt9013]

Jesus relived more than enough for us to know. This guy isn't that good

[@RobertPentangelo]

Trent Horn is a Judaizer-so is Craven Claven. Kosher popcorn-give me a break.

[@zacharyvortivask9734]

2:51 “I recognize his God as Jesus” Not according to the Torah, the Talmud, and to Ben Shapiro himself. We are allowed to ridicule Muhammad and harshly criticize Islam, yet for Jewish people we need to bend over backwards and attack fellow Christians for actually pushing for total evangelism.

[@joedwyer3297]

His God is our God therefore it's a true statement The only difference being they have a 2000-year-out-of-date understanding of the same God

[@zacharyvortivask9734]

@@joedwyer3297 It is true, but Shapiro willfully shuns this truth and has mocked Christ in the past. There’s far more differences b/w Christianity and Judaism than rejecting Christ the King. Old Testament Judaism is not modern Judaism.

[@RobertPentangelo]

@@joedwyer3297 But our God is NOT his God. Game, set, and match. Oh, the Jews have no problem attacking Christianity and even the Lord and Our Lady. The fact that they have had 2000 to update their understanding and refuse to do so, more condemns them than exonerates them.

[@jamesms4]

@@zacharyvortivask9734 You don't know if Shapiro;s shuns it out of invincible ignorance or out of sinful malice. Yer not God buddy. Accept it. BTW Modern Judaism is Biblical Judaism......not that is matters. Judaism points to Jesus regardless and is fulfilled in Him and His True Church.

[@oxysz]

They are the people who rejected the true God for a lie . If you read the New Testament it’s undeniable . They are the people who went astray and now we have 2000 years of getting more away with each year and the blasphemous teachings. Any religious Jew today wouldn’t even be recognized of the Jews in Moses or even Jesus time. They don’t even believe the Torah is true lol

[@jesseshaver2262]

He won’t. Ben Shapiro’s religion is ethnocentric. He care about J’s as a collective, something his kind often discourages among Europeans

[@AllhailTDLjimpic]

True. His theological views are actually a lot more Liberal than you would think for a Conservative Jew. He doesn’t even believe in the red sea being split and tries to give it a natural explanation.

[@night6724]

@@AllhailTDLjimpic Jews don’t believe in miracles

[@night6724]

I remember he once said he believes in religion because it works for civilization which is oddly utilitarian

[@night6724]

Ben has said there should be European and western solidarity just not on race. And FYI before you say it Ben is fine with black and Arab Jews moving to Israel. Israel is also 20 percent Muslim

[@jl453k2]

@@jesseshaver2262 so was Saul’s. All we can do is pray and engage with people in dialogue. Now I’m not saying Ben will go blind and have a Damascene conversion but his future is beyond our power to tell.

[@roborob347]

No one can be saved without Jesus Christ. The vast majority of Jews reject Jesus Christ and the vast majority have died without Jesus Christ. So that kind of gives you your answer.

[@adnanmir2873]

Vaat majority ❌ All ✔️ By definition they wouldn't remain jew than besides ethnicity Don't be so charitable just becoz the other person became so extreme and that doesn't mean fact should be put a waterdown way like that

[@m_d1905]

​@@adnanmir2873 It's not ALL Jews because Christ's followers were Jewish. They didn't stop being Jews by following Christ. There are Messianic Jews today that follow Christ.

[@lysanderofsparta3708]

@@m_d1905 Messianic Jews followed Simon Bar Kochba, Sabbatai Zevi, Jacob Frank, and many other imposters and charlatans throughout history. When a Jew becomes a disciple of Christ, he/she stops being a Jew.

[@m_d1905]

@@lysanderofsparta3708 Sad that you believe that.

[@lysanderofsparta3708]

​@@m_d1905 Sad that you can't see the truth.

[@OK2Ventures]

As an evangelical Protestant, I feel like so much of this Universalist comes about as a direct result of separating ourselves from church history, and the accompanying doctrinal creeds. I just got major “I don’t want to rock the boat” vibes from Klavin. Thank you, Matt, for standing firm in the truth!

[@EpistemicAnthony]

How do you recgonize that while still being in evangelical Protestantism? Genuine question. (I'm Eastern Orthodox, not Roman Catholic, just fyi.)

[@Malygosblues]

This conversation reveals how great doctrine truly is. Particularly the doctrines of the sacraments. Without a sacramental faith, we end up just as a Christian flavored agnostic. Unsure to any degree of salvation or reprobation at any time.

[@JustineBrownsBookshelf]

Answer: yes. I’m so glad that Mr Fradd declined to join the Daily Wire.

[@MarcWilliams-v9w]

Most of us would be happy if Ben Shapiro just stopped dodging Jesus.

[@bec928]

It doesn't matter what we think. The Holy Spirit needs to change his heart.

[@kentzepick4169]

@@MarcWilliams-v9w Let’s stop the snark.

[@Nooby-u7q]

Ben Shapiro is very vocal calling Jesus a false prophet. According to Ben, Jesus was a blasphemer and riot inciter who was justly punished. Ben has no middle ground.

[@thescarletandgrey2505]

Yeah, Snark-o McSnarkyface

[@georgevossen3846]

Nobody comes to the father accept through Christ that simple jews arent an accepction

[@ZKEUS]

Good thing that's not what Klavan is saying!

[@georgevossen3846]

@ZKEUS what is Kelvin saying all I hear is weak tolerance when christ has no tolerance it's him or nothing

[@1Hope4All]

​@@georgevossen3846 It's actually, No one comes to the Father 𝗲𝘅𝗰𝗲𝗽𝘁* through Christ...

[@georgevossen3846]

@1Hope4All my point is christ is the only way no if you don't wash your sin in Christ's blood your not clean and will not inherent the kingdom of heaven I hope I spelled it right lol. Jews who won't accept christ catholics who won't give sin to him instead of a man with no authority and Muslims who won't give Christ thier sin are in eternal jeopardy

[@martywilliard]

The other thing to remember is the story of the tenant farmers. bet many will be surprised who gets “paid a full wage” / salvation even after starting at 4:50pm

[@mrlolmaster1019]

Imagine, Ben Sha0piro and Donald Trump convert to Catholicism that would be so beautiful

[@ValVenusaur]

I love Andrew Klavan and have listened to him for serveral years. He has two blind spots: 1.) Shame of the Gospel-his son is gay and yet Moses and Paul were CRYSTAL CLEAR about that lifestyle, therefore orthodox readings of Scripture must be thrown out. 2.) Ethnocentrism-he thinks there's something special about being a blood descendant of Abraham. Tell that to Muhammad, who was from the line of Ishmael.

[@leigh7507]

Paul never even met Jesus in the flesh so I dont allow him to speak for Jesus (Luke also didnt know Jesus)

[@Mrs.BrittSherwood]

Romans 11:11-31 This clearly says the Jews were cut off because of their unbelief not because of their lack of morality. Omnism is not Christianity. John 3- We must be born again.

[@RobertPentangelo]

I do not agree with you, Christ said this was a wicked and adulterous generation that would only receive the sign of the Prophet Jonah. I suspect you are a Protestant.

[@bman5257]

That same chapter says “All Israel will be saved.”

[@MultiSpeedMetal]

@@bman5257 Israel is the church.

[@thomasbailey921]

Please don't ever quote Romans again. It is a document written 2000 years ago with a completely different cultural context and completely different form of Judaism. You are applying your personal experience to that document and completely missing the point.

[@angelcake136]

Good point!

[@theunderdog6287]

the title just changed at I was watching lol from "Catholic" to "Christian". Also when did Matt change this account from pints with aquinas to his name?

[@donfisherjr.2404]

As Christians, we need to remember that it's God's grace saves us and not our works.

[@amberjulia123]

The way Andrew talks about this is literally the way they are teaching it in my RCIA class.

[@richardkeough7984]

Impressive how both of these men are so comfortable and gracious in disagreement. Kudos to Matt for defending the Catholic faith when called to. He is one of the best interviewers. He can stay endlessly silent and interject only when and as necessary to keep his audience on the straight and narrow.

[@TheCatholicNerd]

Can God save people who are not Catholic Christians? Yes Will God save people who are not Catholic Christians? I don't know. What's the way to salvation? Repenting and being baptized and receiving the body and blood of Christ, in other words being Catholic or Orthodox or maybe Coptic (let reunification come in my lifetime). That is the prescribed way though. Obviously there are exceptions like the good thief who clearly was never baptized and never received the body of Christ. God is not bound by the sacraments or the Church, though he established both as the normal way for us to worship Him and know Him Should Ben Shapiro be a Catholic? Absolutely. Even if I was guaranteed that God would have mercy on him if he stayed how he was, what Joy would it be for him to worship the God made man? Not just for Ben's salvation which is paramount but also for his happiness here on Earth.

[@AustinRasch-p2y]

Just curious, why do you say the good thief was clearly never baptized? The Bible doesn’t make that claim one way or the other

[@charliej600]

I remember being in the same position as Klavan - wanting to be Christian but not being ready/willing to accept what that means, and to make difficult choices to conform my life to the Church’s teaching. I suspect Klavan hates to sit in silence and think about these things, like me I suspect he keeps himself busy and distracted so he doesn’t have to confront these things.

[@opalsirius8484]

The quiet, silent, faithful prayer of believers for non-believers has been very effective in making conversions and come to Jesus moments happen. I'd say more effectively than constant missionary practice. I wish people that want to evangelize would simply offer easy to ready gospels and pray for the person

[@Ben_Hedlund]

Conservative Lutheran “heretic” here. Very interesting discussion. I really like Klavan, but I think he’s needed to be challenged on some of his viewpoints. So thank you for doing so in a thoughtful, kind, and principled way.

[@ddubsr5886]

The Bible literally says in the New Testament Hebrew 9:27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. Don’t get cute and believe this nonsense the guest is spouting. The devil wants you to believe you have time after death to get right with Christ. NO! Today is the day of salvation declares the Lord. Get right with God now. If you believe in your HEART that you have sinned against a holy God and you have contrition and want forgiveness that was the reason Jesus shed his blood and died on the cross and rose again. Trust in his blood, what HE did. Not what you did; not your good works. Ask God to forgive you and God promises He will put in you a new heart and you will be a new creation. Time is running out

[@AnthonyBruns]

Yes, I think God can save people even after they’ve died physically if He sees it fit to do so. But we don’t know who God will give that opportunity to. So we should rest in the knowledge that God is just but evangelize diligently.

[@jeraldene007]

Nicely said Matt. I pray God gives me the grace to convert my loved friends who are not Catholic

[@Clay-x5n]

His very last point before the end summed it all up nicely. Pray for your enemies, your firends, and everyone in between. Live your faith to the fullest and build bridges at the same time. Be the vessel and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

[@Bxtcxt1865]

Andrew argument: we don’t really understand God so why even try to convert people to the truth since God would take care of it.

[@nicholassmith2237]

Yeah, but he will happily confirm that God works through means and his means are often people. We need to have a healthy balance of these two ideas, which I don’t think Andrew does. It’s God’s job to convert… through which ever means he chooses… which is often through evangelism by other Christians.

[@Jerome616]

If that’s what you took away from this, then you really don’t understand his point.

[@RobertPentangelo]

That's not Catholicism.

[@bguinet]

Yea that is not what he was saying at all, very uncharitable on your part

[@picklerick1948]

@@bguinetthen please further elaborate and explain what klavens point was

[@garethindman8144]

I would love for Andrews' perspective to be true, but it doesn't line up with Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment".

[@mikeyg3202]

really amazing points matt. i love being Catholic and you nailed this.

[@ransombodeen1415]

"I'm better for leaving salvation to Christ." - A. Klavan "Go into all the world preaching this Gospel, baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." - Christ

[@bumponalog5001]

This really reaffirmed my opinion that Michael Knowles is the only honest person at Dailywire.

[@emreakkaya6400]

No one asked

[@mw8660]

Matt! THANK you for this type of show- it is so helpful to hear how you evangelize! Please, help us more in this way. You give practical real world examples of what to say and how to say it. Thank you!!!!!

[@lukeedison1632]

Guys, this is a heretical take. Christ is THE truth THE way THE life THE door. He is not A way - He is THE way. Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment

[@shawnmwilson]

Andrew doesn't understand Christianity and this whole podcast proves it. He has some serious issues that need to be resolved. He shouldn't be publicly talking about the Christian faith in any meaningful sense. He doesn't understand it. At all.

[@filiusvivam4315]

Klavan has a protestant approach/view of theology and the teachings of Jesus Christ. It is "I like this, therefore this is what I believe..." It not necessarily bad faith but I don't think he allows the Word of God to form his worldview.

[@spencerbarker4726]

I would disagree that this is a "Protestant" view. Many Protestants adhere to scripture. But Kalvan here is just presenting his own ideas that are quite muddled because he's folding to the post- modern worldview.

[@Tiffany-m4b]

Mmm, not a "protestant" approach, most of us would very strongly disagree with his use of scripture and this logic.

[@Tiffany-m4b]

I wish I could say all protestants disagree but there's some crazies out there. But I also know Catholics that don't fully follow the church's teaching too. It's not just a protestant problem, it's a human problem.

[@jjorgecuevass]

“Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭23‬ ‭

[@ryanharrison4554]

Man this guy is a grade A Bible twister.

[@cazwalt9013]

Typical ju

[@JW-sg7tt]

Protestants are known for their expertise

[@emreakkaya6400]

If he was, you would have pointed out how he did so.

[@arthurgrey8967]

I think part of the distinction in evangelization is Catholics don't believe in reciting a magic word prayer of acceptance as the basis of salvation. If as a Catholic I believed sincerely that all it took was someone at some point having "accepted" Jesus verbally to be saved, I'd be far more concerned in getting them to say it. But we understand its a daily acceptance evidenced in our actions and requires perseverance till the end. So if there is an opportunity to discuss the faith with someone, or if someone asks for it, I am more than willing. But it is too large a life commitment to be effectuated in a few minutes of discussion. So referencing your faith openly, and living in a way that reflects positively, is generally far more effective. Not that there isn't a place for a more concerted effort.

[@MatthewsSloan]

We were given ONE thing that tells us what God thinks. Just because it can make us uncomfortable in these secular times doesn't mean we get to ignore it.

[@fujikokun]

This whole interview has been really interesting - I had no idea how heterodox Klavan is. I assumed he was classically Protestant, but he’s heterodox even for Protestant.

[@austinnajar]

I was under the impression that like Knowles and Walsh, Klavan was Roman Catholic.

[@tomlabooks3263]

Ugh. Matt’s left brain hemisphere is dominating this channel in ways that it should not. Rules are fundamental, yes, but the central core of Catholicism is not rules and regulations. “Should a catholic …. eat marmite?”. “Can a catholic … travel to Mars?”. “Will I be saved … if I eat Rice Krispies?”. Video after video. But hey, that’s how Matt lives his faith, and it’s his channel. Clickbait pays. For discussions on theology, however, I prefer to listen to a real theologian.

[@MisterPaulFish]

Klavin is a bad man for what he did to Candice.

[@Mantorok]

Does Klavan believe in ANY core christian doctrines? He does not understand the seriousness of sin, he doesn't believe in biblical authority, he does not believe Jesus is the only way. He is a liberal christian.

[@Proud_Troll]

The reason why Ben isn't trying to convert anyone, is because he sees his obligation as mission from god. He doesn't actually want to burden anyone with that mission. It's like, in the movie 1917 where one soldier is being tasked with a mission, and he takes another soldier to go with him, but that second soldier gets angry once they realize how difficult the mission is, because he could've just stayed behind and had a much easier time. According to Ben, Christians are based. He doesn't believe that Christians need to be anything other than that.

[@GrizzV991]

Klavan says a lot of things we want and in a way that perhaps we cant know could be, but it ultimately is just wishful thinking. The idea that after a nonchristian dies, they are presented before God and then given a final option to choose is nice and flowery, but ultimately not within any scripturally backed doctrine, and the popes statements at that religion convention/conference seems to have greatly influenced this idea that none of your choices really matter as we're all in a constant state of moving toward God, its like anticalvinism.

[@alt-monarchist]

Fradd Mentioned helping the poor, and Klavan instantly flinches. LOL

[@Kalenwilliams1393]

So how do we know which one of you are correct?

[@danjohnson8556]

According to LDS theology, they will be “saved” and acquire (albeit lesser) kingdom of glory. This makes more sense than the standard pass/fail paradigm of other Christians.

[@brianwagner781]

I think there's something lacking in both these dispositions towards those without Christ. Most of us would agree it's not necessarily best to be constantly bothering those we know about conversion. Or acting like we aren't trying to convert when we are. But people, at least those close to us should hear with great earnestness that we want that for them. Read 2Cor 5: "ambassadors of Christ", "pleading", "God making his appeal thru us", "we implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." Evangelism that doesn't go further than casual, doesn't represent the heart of God towards those without Jesus. I'll add about Klavan's points of view. Whatever the final judgements of God will be, I think it's pretty clear the Bible does not mean for us to be as comfortable about the position of people like Ben as he is.

[@aadamy]

You’d be surprised how many men like him, seemingly impossible to convert - end up doing so because their wife did, their children or another man much like himself. Often it’s Christ Himself without him knowing it. Keep praying for Ben. I think he’s wonderful.

[@avb19d6]

I try and defend my sins all the time… but always end up admitting I’m wrong God has a way of always being right,because he is. I think it’s going to be one heck of a surprise to Andrew when that clicks one day.

[@kendrickl5913]

Lol. Lmao even

[@rr884136]

Yes of course he should so he can believe in Jesus and be saved

[@entwifey]

Andrew klavans view of scripture is divergent from orthodox Christian teaching in many ways and I would not be surprised if he was a false convert.

[@heir8095]

I'm sorry, but this is really disappointing stuff from Klavan. I get his sentiment, but scripture does not do his arguments the justice he thinks they do. I'm speaking as a protestant here. There is only one name by which we can be saved: Jesus. It SUCKS that hundreds of billions of people are going to hell, and I agree that I don't get a say in their salvation. But we are commanded to teach people the specific way to salvation that Jesus taught us and not assume anything else, pleading with them for their sake.

[@Zacharia8v3]

You dont read the bible right. Some one on the right trajectory will be saved.

[@joedwyer3297]

Hundreds of billions is possibly going too far So many people who didn't know Jesus before the incarnation and even after (Japan never heard of him till like 500 years ago) can still have been saved

[@Khachig88]

These honest conversations are very good. I know where Klavan stands now and I disagree with a lot of it.

[@QBlessed93]

Andrew just unknowingly invented Purgatory which I’m pretty sure Protestants reject

[@choyayahyah]

For the life of me, I can not understand Christianity. Like, if all of the "Old Testament" is basically null and void, why are Christians so hung up on homosexuality? The same God that says not to eat pork also says not to be homosexual. The same God who says "I am not a man, i have no image, do not worship a God that was not known to you or your forefathers who took you out of Egypt" and the same God who says, not to add or subtract from the Torah, Christians come and throw it all on it's head. And then they believe a Jew who follows the word of God is somehow going to Hell? It makes absolutely no sense. Also, everything in this world is a parallel to our relationship with God and the truth. So, we have parents and our parents always want to give us the world and are always ready to forgive us if we do something wrong but yet, Christians believe God is our father but we are damned to hell for all eternity because we don't accept Jesus as God who fyi, was only decided by the council of Nicea in around 330 CE that Jesus is God? And if Jesus is God but I believe in God but not in Jesus, how does that make sense? Christianity has so many holes in its ideology, it makes no sense that so many of these very smart people believe in it and that Judaism is somehow wrong.

[@Nooby-u7q]

“Ben is a good man.” Notwithstanding scripture claiming otherwise.

[@realmikolson]

Klavan’s theology is deeply shaped (seems almost entirely at times) by his personal experiences & relationships. He’s pro homosexuality because of his son (refuses to call it what the Bible calls it). He’s a universalist soteriologically because of his friendship with Jew Ben. This is what happens when we reject the authority of Scripture: we twist ourselves into a pretzel of theological incoherency.

[@Nooby-u7q]

This Klavan dude really speaks like a politician about Christianity. Loopholes to duty everywhere.

[@DClairRobinson]

"I think he's a good man" Unfortunately, that is NOT the standard

[@kaleahsol]

I think Andrew often laughs when he knows his own view isn't strong.

[@oxysz]

The thing Iv learned since Iv more recently came to Christ that has blown my mind is the modern conservative Christianity supporting modern religious Jews. It’s missing the main point of the New Testament lol. They are the people who reject and hate Christ 2000 years ago but have had those years to go further off the rails and make a blasphemous “religion”

[@oxysz]

Also mind you I’m talking belief . There is no Jew as a race . Anyone who believes in Jesus as their lord and savior is saved . No Jew or gentile at that point .

[@magafett596]

He keeps saying “I think…” “I think…”, I don’t care what he thinks, I care about the truth…what can be proven as true doctrine, not wishful thinking.

[@christianmcgrath3813]

I get what you're saying, but as the guest on a podcast, that's sort of his role🤷‍♂️ Give his opinion

[@vomer9167]

A Christian is a person that has been born-again. Born of the spirit of God. I’m not a good person I’m going to heaven because of Christ nothing I do.

[@Hookly]

I would push back, a bit, on how Matt described the Catholic perspective of salvation. As far as I’m aware, there’s nothing in Catholic theology to say that refusal to submit cannot be a product of ignorance. To say “but” in the description implies that the refusal is distinct from one’s lack of culpability, but they don’t have to be

[@philipmitchener28]

“And I tell you this, that many Gentiles will come from all over the world-from east and west-and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the feast in the Kingdom of Heaven. But many Israelites-those for whom the Kingdom was prepared-will be thrown into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8‬:‭11‬-‭12‬ ‭NLT‬‬

[@pinnwal8856]

Jews believing the righteous non-Jew has the same place in heaven as a righteous Jew is what differentiates from all other religions, and why they do not proselytize. The fact that you essentially demand conversion in order to be "saved" is the height of arrogance an exclusivity.

[@RadeshyamkarwalRadeshyamkarwal]

awesome video

[@brettzicari5233]

The amount of people in this comment section whose God is an evil game show host is absolutely crazy.

[@TT-tx5ng]

With the Good Samaritan, I think Jesus was trying to prove a point about the actions of the Samaritan, which was better than the others. That's why he said to be like the Samaritan. He wants the Samaritan to go further, though, and follow Jesus because He is the Way.

[@obviousgreyman]

Sounds like Klavan is mixing up his old Jewish doctrine and Christian doctrine. It’s Jews that believe if you just follow the law and live according to Gods will you will be saved. Christ changed that and you must go through him and only him for salvation. He must’ve missed that part which could damn his friend Ben if the Christians in his life aren’t trying to show him the truth about salvation through Christ.

[@micahprice2807]

1: How salvation through Christ(By Grace through Faith) works is un-important. Our only concern is that it is effectual for those that truly follow Christ. 2: WHO it is effectual for is ANYONE that calls on the name of Christ in faith, truly repents, professes Him and follows him. 3: The point that we don't get a say in others salvation, AND SIMULTAEOUSLY we don't know who is saved or who may be saved, is precisely WHY we must take the gospel to those people. Romans 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

[@NestortheArgonaught]

All hail Klavan, lord of the multiverse, hot Gandalf and early rain detector!

[@andrewcherpeski3180]

Klavan's perspective on salvation sounds a lot like the Mormons.

[@reillydevine12]

As a Mormon, I agree. It's beautiful! God is merciful

[@kp6553]

Amen from this Latter-day Saint. God wants to bring all of his children home.

[@reillydevine12]

@@drjanitor3747 Thank you for your profound and insightful comment sir

[@lazybritbong4003]

@@drjanitor3747 Calls mormonism BS, refuses to elaborate further. BASED

[@Matthew_Prescott]

Thank you for fighting the good fight Matt; which is to say, the Catholic fight. Klavan does a very good job of looking at Salvation through a purely emotional lens, and not a logical one. The result of this "who am I to judge" mentality is that the understanding of God's justice - with its facets of both discipline and mercy - and in fact all of God's will is castrated and replaced with a saccharine relativistic worldview in which evil is first tolerated and then eventually celebrated. It is true that we should not condemn the sinner as beyond help, but noticing sin and calling it what it is isn't that kind of condemnation. We cannot bring our brothers and sisters up without understanding and then fleeing from sin, through the active cultivation of virtue; with firm assertions of objective morality. I do believe Andrew is sincere in the beliefs he espouses in this interview, and he isn't entirely unsympathetic, but he is in serious error. I hope that he prays his new Rosary and attains to a more developed understanding of definitive right and wrong, by the grace of God.

[@vintifada7115]

So this is a way to save the Jews, not all unbelievers 🤔

[@catholicguy1073]

Yeah it’s a really good question. If I recall there is a part in the Bible where Jesus says that those who don’t know of him will still be judged as we will all be judged and those who don’t know him will be judged based on their deeds. If I am correctly remembering this those who don’t know of Jesus as God can still be saved. I think they may be less likely because they haven’t heard the fullness of truth but the door is still open. Maybe not fully but at least cracked. And yes I agree we should want them all and yes for someone like Ben it would be difficult because of what he probably would have to give up. A very very tight religious community.

[@johndoe-ln4oi]

@6:16 - "non-Catholics" - You mean non-Christians, correct?

[@vincentprospero2809]

Klavan acknowledges that he’s not God regarding salvation in one context, but he does consider himself God with regard to those who practice (probably not the correct word here, but anyway) homosexuality. As in a previous clip, he evidently believes that such behavior is permissible in salvation. My daughter had such questions and I reminded her that neither she nor I are God and cannot condemn but rather use discernment in order to make our own decisions and pray for those who don’t live according to scripture, as scripture is our primary way to determine God’s will.

[@kevinrombouts3027]

Andrew Klavan impresses me lots. I tend to agree with his perspective.

[@KZ-pt5qk]

But what about catholic baptism? Don’t we believe… as Catholics… that this first sacrament must be given before any other factors are considered in salvation?

[@cassellino]

I wonder if he holds this view for Hindus or Muslims or Buddhists, or is it just for the chosen people?

[@emreakkaya6400]

So you claim he can't hold it for everyone? Repent

[@cassellino]

@@emreakkaya6400 I claim nothing. That is a question mark at the end of the sentence. And by "he" I mean Andrew Klavan.

[@kreigormoorkus3695]

He has said that he believes this of all people who are not christian

[@TylerKleinhuizen]

Or, does he just hold this view for the people he would have to evangelize? If Ben Shapiro wasn't his boss and had no connection to him, I bet he would be saying something different. We can very easily justify our inaction if there is a cost to us.

[@kreigormoorkus3695]

@@TylerKleinhuizen From what I know of Klavan, the idea that Shaprio being his boss and thus keeping him for acting, is utter nonsense.

[@RAYMCMULLEN-t6r]

I know I have listened to a good, thought provoking discussion when I agree with everything said by whomever spoke last.

[@jcthechemist]

The idea of salvation in Judaism is not a spiritual salvation like Christians think. For Jews and at the time of Jeshua was a political salvation. Saving Israel form the Romans. Christians have a misconception of Jesus and Paul. They were Jewish and didn’t invented Christianity they were Jews and followed the Torah

[@davescards32]

This is a dangerous video. It’s playing pretty fast and loose with scripture. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. Whoever does not believe will be condemned. We also know from the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus that once you’re dead it’s done. The judgement is made. The Rich Man is told that his family has the prophets to listen to after he asks to be allowed to go warn them. So even if “you’re on the right path” or “doing the right thing”, if the belief in Christ as your Savior isn’t there, then it’s game over.

[@angelcake136]

So everyone needs Jesus except Ben Shapiro? I don't think so!

[@SchubertArolnathon]

Anyone can be Christians! I have many Hindu friends who believes Jesus a deity among their gods. You are a Christian when you believe in it’s values. You can be a Christian without having to believe in Christ but only believe in Jesus. But then there are those the scriptures says : You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit-fruit that will last-and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. The kingdom of God doesn’t belong to devotees but to sons of God.

[@RockNM06]

For those "Christians" who post "Christ is King" to an unsaved Jew I believe that is not showing kindness and love of Jesus. Jews have a stumbling block in front of them, most can't see their Messiah in Jesus. In addition, "Christians" have persecuted Jews for 2,000 years making trust very difficult. As a Messianic Jew I see a great deal of misunderstanding about Orthodox Judaism. Yes, Yeshua/Jesus is "the way, the truth and the light" so show that to those who don't yet believe in Him. Orthodox Judaism desperately needs their Messiah and we should want them to see the Truth. Most of my family has rejected Yeshua and that pains me greatly. But, the response should be love not condemnation so that they can come to to Truth because there is no hope of salvation without Yeshua. Again, Paul the Apostle and Jesus himself would want all believers to a be a light to those who do not believe. Christians and Jews both worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. This is the same God who sent His only Son to Earth. This is the same God who has not forgot or forsaken His Chosen People. God always keeps his promises eternally.

[@tjak76]

Even Jews under the Old Covenant will have to profess Jesus as the Messiah and receive His atonement. That is the culmination of both the Old and New Covenants. If they spend this life rejecting Him will they be given some sort of second chance to profess Him as Lord when they enter eternity? As people of God's first Covenant, possibly. But will their hearts be so hardened that even seeing Him face to face they'll be unable to accept Him as their Savior? Possibly. 🫤

[@CheddarBayBaby]

Ben explicitly rejects Jesus. How are you even asking this?

[@punkybauer1]

I like the idea of leaving it to Jesus. Jesus is the only ine who truly knows. I also do my best to live a good Christian/ Catholic life