Overshooting Earth's Boundaries | Bill Rees

Humankind’s footprint threatens to squash life under its heel.
Our impact on the planet cannot be understated. We have thrust Earth into a new geological period, destroyed the majority of the world’s wildlife, razed her forests, and rendered innumerable species extinct. We are expert consumers with no limits to our appetite, it seems. Unless the climate becomes so unstable our own systems break down. This, of course, is what we’re already seeing.
Bill Rees, bio-ecologist, ecological economist, and originator of the ecological footprint analysis, joins me to discuss this breakdown-how we got here, where we’re going, and why he has little hope for humankind to make it through. We discuss systems change, potential outcomes, and how to create “lifeboats” in a crisis. We also go head-to-head on the framing of some of these issues before finding common ground towards the end of the episode.
🔴 Bill Rees: www.postcarbon.org/our-people...
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#politicalcrisis #climatecrisis #energycrisis #overshoot

[@mikkert-zh2cf]

I understand Bill Reese his frustration after talking about this for decades and nobody in power listening to him.

[@johngray1439]

Amen.

[@j85grim4]

He's been ranting about this for nearly a century at this point 😅

[@antonyjh1234]

And have any of us reduced our consumption 40%?

[@mikkert-zh2cf]

I don't eat meat and I only own one pair of jeans

[@j85grim4]

​@@antonyjh1234The op said people in power. We need some kind of leader that can reach everyone in the world for any plan like this to be successful.

[@ariggle77]

Hi Rachel, I've listened to this conversation several times and it seems like the main point of tension between you and William Rees is differing views on human nature itself. Having seen many of his presentations, his conclusion (in my interpretation) is that while we could theoretically change course, we probably won't. In my view the empirical evidence is overwhelmingly in his favor on this point. Just look at our trajectory over the last 10,000 years. Yet, wisely, he doesn't really blame humans for our behavior. We're just animals, after all, despite the common belief in human exceptionalism. It seems to me that a common blind spot among so many intellects and philosophers is the idea that because there are wise people among us, we are capable of wise action as a species. I know nothing about your background or your knowledge of human psychology and social behavior, but I wonder how your views might change about our predicament and the very notion of free will itself if you were to do a deep dive into this topic (if you haven't already or don't have some expertise I'm not aware of). I say without a hint of sarcasm that if and when you're ever ready to let go of the idea that we can fix our predicament (which doesn't mean giving up or giving into despair), we doomsters will welcome you with open arms. Thanks for caring about people and the planet.

[@mikeh2351]

I like you 😊. It's tough for people to a) acknowledge THEY are so intimately at the heart of the problem (for being an energy-sucking modern human) b) to accept the notion that we are fundamentally the same creature that we were when we first showed up: one that will eat everything in its way, and leave nothing but waste in its wake. And yes, WE didn't 'create' us. That's why the most intelligent thing I've heard Rachel say came from her Ayahuasca trip and had to do with our true origin as a species. She was suddenly aware of possibility and not caught up in the psycho modern hopium that we somehow can fix this! We ARE this!

[@dougcruickshank7393]

There's the bigger issue that even if we went net zero for energy production tomorrow, we still wouldn't solve global warming. And that's aside from agriculture, food and water problems that are going to get progressively worse.

[@ventpipe55]

I gave up on Rachel half way through her interview. Maybe she did not do her homework on Dr Rees and had no idea he is built for a factual war over the years. She has a vision of how to fix the planet but she does did not understand the planet is just fine. It is I, the hellbent upright that is the issue at hand. It has been bothering me that I just cut her loose but as soon as I saw your reply to her, I decided to thank you for the way you handled it. I’m like mikeh, I like you. Signed, ole fart!

[@coldspring22]

Yes absolutely. humans can't change. The reason isn't that there isn't some wise leader out there, but the problem is expediency always wins the day. Anyone willing to sacrifice long term good for short term gain wins and that's how human history played out over thousands of years and that's not going to change until it's too late.

[@gingafinga]

But like Jeff Bezos says, he wants a trillion human beings, so we can have a million Einsteins and so on. More like billions more customers for Amazon. Deluded optimists never seem to factor in the fatal impact humans are having on nature, and how nature IS our life support system. They no doubt also believe we can f*ck our way back to virginity!

[@aum82]

“What we could do is completely separate from what we will do” ~ William E. Rees

[@arthurpriestley8103]

China is building 12 coal fired power generating plants each year . Saudi Arabia burns 150 thousand barrels of oil each day to creat the energy to desalinate the water they drink and toilet and wash (and waist) . The amount of jet fuel burned in air craft each day is not recorded . Every jet plane leaves with full fuel tanks just in case the plane get rerouted . USA has 700 domestic flight each day . NATO burns the equivalent of every automobile on the planet . You do the math . Humans are doomed , by their own hand . The are burning the very garden that feeds them , the house they live ,or bed they sleep in . Doom !

[@literalghost929]

The story of my life. lol

[@SandhillCrane42]

I could do a backflip... if I were falling from a high height.

[@Muddslinger0415]

It’s far to late what’s coming can’t be stopped now we should have left fossil fuels in the ground

[@aum82]

@@Muddslinger0415 💯 It’s time to tend to garden (however that looks for you wherever you are), look after ourselves so we can show up for our loved ones and the tangible community around us and make peace with the universe - however that may look for you. Physics doesn’t negotiate and what’s coming is coming fast.

[@bruceclark4754]

Reese is a hundred percent correct but Rachel finds it difficult to accept the difficult truths

[@clarkdavis5333]

Yes almost difficult to watch

[@SuperTonyony]

She's in the denial stage of grief.

[@jonquiljones]

​@@SuperTonyonyBargaining, surely? 'But we can do these things...' We've all been there. We're with you, young people. Some of us have just been hanging around the planet long enough to see the wider picture.

[@havenmist2216]

When your presupposition is that earth without humans is the ideal then only the destruction of humans can satisfy you.

[@richgoo]

Bill Rees is an absolute legend, I came here to listen to him, I've not been to this channel before. All I'll say is I found Rachel very disrespectful and strangely, her ego comes through waaay too much. Poor interviewon her part. I'm too used to the wonderful Nate Hagens channel, I guess.

[@melissab8500]

I agree 100% but I've cried enough over this. Even trying to convince one seemingly rational person that resources are finite as is our planet is so frustrating I could scream. Thank you for doing the hard work of spreading the reality

[@RobopYoutube]

I feel the same way, every time I explain these things to someone they say things like: Are you sure? or they don't take me seriously and in the end they don't pay attention to me... I just want my family to be well before things get complicated :'(

[@Withnail1969]

People seem hard wired to deny there is any scarcity or that scarcity caused previous collapses. In fact in my view its verry clear that for example the Roman empire collapsed by itself due to deforestation and exhausted farmland.

[@JaseboMonkeyRex]

This man's intellect is so vast and gorgeous to listen to, Thank you, Bill, for your service to humanity even though we are so blinded by our hubris that we can't hear you...

[@abody499]

well said

[@gregmcgoffin2938]

agreed@@abody499

[@kathybehlen7088]

👍🌎☮️

[@amberazurescale5617]

And again this "we". Whatever it is, I'm not a part of it. Seems you're also not. Because both of us do listen. Still unable to change the world or break out of society, but listen we do.

[@abody499]

@@amberazurescale5617 I'm sure there is only one species capable of using the internet, therefore you are very much included in "we [humans]".

[@j85grim4]

Two points I want to address in two separate comments: by mainstream, he means the majority. I can say without hesitation here in my country the United States, the mainstream are completely ignorant about all of these issues including climate change. The number 1 selling car has been the F-150 enormous pick up truck for several years now with the rest of the top 10 list being made up mostly of gas gussiling SUV's. I can't find anyone here to talk about these issues. I have two roommates that are 18 and 20 and they have no idea what climate change even is let alone what a serious threat to our existence it will become. So I think you live in a bubble Rachel. The majority of people do not share our passion for these issues in the rich nations and in the poor nations, they don't think they should restrict their family sizes. President Xi just said he's worried about China's declining population in a country with 1.5 billion people! So honestly, I'm not seeing any evidence of the large scale change needed on any level.

[@chookbuffy]

I had hoped Gen Z was more ecologically aware (I’mGen Y) but what you say seems consistent with a few younger people I’ve spoken to. I wonder if the reality of no stable job, no clear gender identity, a lifetime of debt/rent means the only “rational” approach is to waste ultra processed foods and binge TV. I have found a greater community of ecological aware people outside of the city in the rural area i now live in. I reckon if i stayed in the city i would be bright back into ignorance

[@pookahdragon5850]

I recently moved from a red state to a blue state. I live in a low population area. I expected to find no one to discuss these issues. However, I live in a state that supports off-grid living. I live in a community that is mostly off-grid. It's not an intentional community but has organically evolved into a community that is working towards cooperation and compassion. In a modern economic system, we are quite poor. However, most of us left large cities where we had more economic opportunities. Since we are no longer part of the consumer based economic system, we need less money. We have more time and less stress. We eat healthier. I work part-time remotely. Many are retired now. We drive very little for two reasons: everything is far, and the crowds and traffic are now "foreign" and unpleasant. This community discusses the changes we are seeing due to global warming. We also discuss that the only solution is to consume less. Downsizing my personal consumption hasn't been a sacrifice. I have few wants because I don't desire things to reward myself for surviving another day/week in the material world or from a need to fit in or impress. Sometimes, I just sit outside for hours watching the critters and clouds. Life can be different.

[@j85grim4]

​​@@pookahdragon5850May I ask what state and approximate city? I live in an extremely blue state, California but not in one of the big tradition cities but large suburban areas (near Sacramento) and there may be a handful of counter culturalists like myself that are aware of these issues, but the overwhelming majority are either still in denial or think we can switch to electric cars and that will magically solve everything. I think the point Bill and I are making is not that these life boats like yours don't exist, it's that they are still an extremely tiny minority. I personally would like to exit modern society when I have the money and agricultural training myself. I do worry though that communities like yours will become a target for Vikings to loot and take over.

[@pookahdragon5850]

@j85grim4 I am in New Mexico close to the Arizona border. The Earth ship community paved the way for an off-grid friendly state. People have moved to my community from all over seeking a less expensive, less stressful, less environmentally destructive lifestyle. My land and the cabin I built cost less than one year's rent in Dallas. No zoning or building permits are required, which is why I ended up buying property here. The beginning was hard. I started out in a tent. As I finish different projects, my life gets easier. Overcoming the challenges here is so rewarding and immediately gratifying.

[@pookahdragon5850]

@j85grim4 Gallup is the closest city. Albuquerque is just over two hours away.

[@robertpaulson6388]

Thank you Rachel, enjoy your interviews and your guests. Been a Bill Reese agreerer for years. We very well may be in overshoot on a finite planet. My fear is the violence as we hit our limits.

[@aum82]

The primal howls are soon approaching

[@janklaas6885]

we may, 😂 your sooooo funny

[@Changeworld408]

i see many more refugees and people on the streets, apparently 100.000 people died of overdose of chrystal meth in USA last year according to Gabor Maté. people in usa and Uk are overdosing on sugar and refined junk food every year since stress has increased exponentially. overdose on soothing coping mechanisms like alcohol, sweets and porn and gaming are growing exponentially as all humans in industrial society are considered human resources by their employers, they love it and since the new flu in 2020 governments have increased control over their slaves and made them wear masks and inject them regurarly with chemical substance made by big pharma.

[@J.M.-nb4gw]

Oh we passed the limits of ecological overshoot many years ago and now we are just waiting for the total ecological an economic collapse. It won't take long after that killed people are eating each other right up until there's no other living animals on Earth 😢

[@fabiengerard8142]

Homo ‘sapiens’?!? No, definitely Homo DEMENS!!! The western technological-industrial revolution has been the beginning of the end. Then, about 100 years later, came the fatal advent of the consumerist ‘way of life’… Hence the overacceleration of history, and the quite predictable civilizational dead end. What else could several billions of modern humans indoctrinated from the cradle seriously expect but global chaos? 🤷🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏻‍♀️

[@rapauli]

Rachal -- you seem distressed by Bill, your entire show is a prologue to a better discussion.

[@dianewallace6064]

Bill Rees. Yay!! Preach!!

[@denisemillar9146]

I don't understand the hostility of the host.

[@rapauli]

@@denisemillar9146 i was reading her posture and facial expression --- and this topic stresses our executive function, and sense of agency. We are powerless -- we see a solution that is the most difficult to attain. I wish Rachel and Bill could discuss that.

[@johnbanach3875]

@@denisemillar9146She was rude and obnoxious.

[@janebrown7231]

Well described - and yes, that would have been a very useful discussion, and Bill Rees would have been ready for it, though I'm afraid Rachel probably wouldn't.

[@compostjohn]

I am absolutely with Bill Rees here. I think he has an exceptionally clear and accurate view of what's happening, and where our trajectory is leading.

[@mkysml]

This convo is the archetype of a journalist talking to a scientists. The former thinks in instances, the latter in generalizabilities. Rachel, no one's saying there aren't exceptions. Bill's just saying there are norms. And by definition, the exception is not the norm.

[@ChristopherNettles]

Yes!!

[@ouimetco]

Was thinking this myself too.

[@megaelsa1000]

she seems to struggle to let go of the image of the 'noble savage'.

[@ouimetco]

@@megaelsa1000 that’s a good point.

[@seamusdraed6532]

Thanks to Bill Reese for being the voice crying in the wilderness and thanks to you Rachel for the important work you're doing.

[@pts619]

It is a simple concept but one that is difficult for many to understand - that indigenous people only live in balance with nature because of negative feedbacks that limit their ability to expand. If those negative feedbacks. e.g. limitations on food supply or ability to produce food were removed they too would expand exponentially just as the societies that have used technology to overcome negative feedback in the modern world have done. There is nothing magical in the approach of indigenous societies to living within the ecosphere. We are all the same in that respect.

[@john1boggity56]

Yes. Agreed. However I think our clever use of fossil fuels and he associated technologies has seriously blunted the effect of feedbacks. For how long...let's see.

[@pts619]

And I think therein lies the problem. Technology has allowed the human enterprise to continue growing but at the expense of the stability of the ecosphere and earth's climate. Without stability there cannot be growth. We have moved close to and cross many of the planetary boundaries. We will continue to grow until it is no longer possible and that time I believe is upon us. @@john1boggity56

[@MrNomyar]

Agree. Listened almost full interview. It starts with "we know that we use more yhan the planet can give us". This is not debated, only confirmed.

[@mandyharewood886]

Says who?

[@MrNomyar]

@@mandyharewood886 both mr Rees and the interviewer.

[@robertpounds4842]

You can see the difference in view straight away , the young want hope and the old have had a life time of their pessimism being reinforced

[@dayofthejackyl]

This is it 💯 it will be interesting to see how she’s thinking about her fellow humans when she reaches the age Bill is in this video.

[@lemon-yi6yh]

"He who lives to see two or three generations is like a man who sits some time in the conjurer's booth at a fair, and witnesses the performance twice or thrice in succession. The tricks were meant to be seen only once; and when they are no longer a novelty and cease to deceive their effect is gone." - someone even smarter than Bill

[@Dachaser322]

@@lemon-yi6yh I love this quote! Thank you for sharing this with us. Edit: I searched it online and saw that it was attributed to Schopenhauer! No wonder it's a corker.

[@guiart4728]

William Reese is the most able spokesperson for the biosphere I have run across. He is able to straddle the scientific point of view and the layperson’s desire to assimilate that point of view. If you want to know what is going on concerning these issues this is one stop shopping!!! Thanks Mr. Reese!!!

[@jennysteves]

This conversation is a rich education in so many ways. Thank you for posting it as is, Rachel, in all its messiness and misunderstandings. Bill Rees is one of my top environmental heroes and I always learn something new from him. He is worthy of deep respect, and I was glad to hear him acknowledge near the end of the interview that you are, too. I’d love to hear you one day explore further with us your spiritual (for lack of a better word) explorations because science will not solve this for us. An incarnational paradigm shift is not guaranteed. Beware of bright-siding and bypassing the enormity of what we are facing. There is much, much suffering ahead. I grieve daily for the suffering we are already inflicting upon the nonhuman and human world.

[@wombatcitystudios]

Agreed, yes thanks Rachel.

[@stuartmoore6310]

I grieve for the non-human world, not so much for the humans anymore. Each day less and less.

[@TADman4003]

As far as I'm concerned Bill Reese's perspectives on the current pending humanitarian crisis are conservative and optimistic.

[@aum82]

😦

[@HappyBelly10]

I know someone who also asks "you follow me?", and then realized they did it in large groups too. When Bill Rees asks "you understand what I'm saying" -- I think it's a cultural thing and I wouldn't take it as an insult. These tend to be professors who taught large classes in-person and got feedback from students (head-nodding, etc). They're missing that type of feedback from Zoom.

[@realeyesrealizereallies6828]

Sure people are waking up to the reality of our situation, like they have in every collapsing civilization to ever exist, but everyone of those civilizations still collapsed, because of the momentum inherent and complexity of human civilizations..When everyone is working with all of their ability to keep the status quo, that is all that can ever happen, around the fringes some things can change, but never the entire civilization until it collapses in horror..Which is exactly the process that we are in, there is no escape..We don't even have the ability to make the proper decisions to save ourselves because of our indoctrination by this civilization, ludicrous expectations, and lost knowledge that can only come from a very close relationship with the natural world.. Without that relationship to the natural world, we are in fact children until the day we die, how can children make the decisions to save themselves in a very complex situation, they can't..Fossil fuels completely allowed for 8 billion people and everything you see when your eyes are open, there is no forms of energy as energy dense as fossil fuels, they cannot be replaced without the collapse of this civilization..They cannot be suddenly withdrawn or hundreds of millions/billions of people will freeze, starve, migrate from hot environments, etc., etc It is the exact same trap every civilization has found itself in..We don't need to raise the living standards of those in "poverty", we need to emulate their lifestyles..That is what I mean, we could never make the proper decisions, it's impossible, we will go down with this ship...Not to even mention that nuclear annihilation is a mathematical certainty, with what is coming, down the pike...It's just reality, and I would wrap your head around that reality..And prepare for the inevitable future...

[@bubstacrini8851]

I am preparing to watch a tree fall down and begin to decay Oh the beauty, as it is colonized by new forms...Aum, Ahh

[@realeyesrealizereallies6828]

@@bubstacrini8851 When you find one person in the state of decay, you won't be able to find that beauty..When it's millions and billions, it will break you down to your core...

[@williamgreene4834]

You say that like it's a bad thing. :)

[@elliskaranikolaou2550]

She is wrong. The majority of people don't give a damn. The majority just want more for themselves individually.

[@Lanthanideification]

Yes. I was surprised when she said that Wales is no longer building any new roads - that is a remarkable step in the right direction. But it's just a step, and an easy one to take - low-hanging fruit. However each successive step will require giving up material wellbeing that is currently taken for granted by the mainstream and therefore more and more resisted by the mainstream. The whole thing is really summed up by the Overton window - the conversations that we need to be having, that Bill Rees wants to talk about, are simply so far from acceptable discourse as to be verboten.

[@abody499]

@@Lanthanideification not really - they're a fully industrialised and built up country. they dont _need_ any new roads.

[@ihateexcessivelylongandpoi4490]

Correct. As much as everyone likes to pretend they care, they simply don't. Let's just keep it real.

[@PermieCulture]

​@@LanthanideificationHow noble is it? Or can Wales not afford the roads and hence, wrap the idea in green wash?

[@danielvonbose557]

​@@ihateexcessivelylongandpoi4490Perhaps your right. On the surface, I care, but I have run across so many inflexible viewpoints that my caring may go out the window. When shtf this is not a good situation.

[@catherinebanks6420]

I want to live in the bubble Rachel lives in. Everyone I know is completely against degrowth. About 70% don't believe climate change is man-made and/or a big deal. And even if we could convince the average Joe to vote for degrowth, the political system here would override it for corporate lobbyists. BTW, I am American.

[@mba321]

"And even if we could convince the average Joe to vote for degrowth, the political system here would override it for corporate lobbyists." And therein lies the rub. The "average Joe" has no say.

[@jrgengrelllykken1083]

It is really hard, even for Rachel Donald, to grasp the full momentum of the human superorganism…….

[@chesterfinecat7588]

Oh I think she gets the thrust and feels it deeply.

[@stephentrueman4843]

Imagine if she spoke to Nate Hagens

[@andy-the-gardener]

always address the mindless techno biotic planet eating machine by its proper name; THE MEGACANCER!

[@jannd8170]

I believe the cultures who lived sustainably (before being colonized) did so because they had themselves experienced calamity from overuse of resources. It took mass drought, famine, disease, disaster to show these cultures the importance of living within their bounds. They then pass that on to their descendants over centuries.

[@ssorcnivek]

They didnt't live sustainably though did they? For example they drove the Bison over cliffs in the USA, and exterminated the Moa in New Zealand and diminished nature everywhere they went. It's just that there was only 1 billion of them instead of nearly 9 billion now. Worrying about who colonized who over last 200yrs ain't gonna help.

[@jannd8170]

@@ssorcnivek running some bison off a cliff for a large tribal gathering is nothing when you’ve carefully cultivated a herd of at least 30 million.

[@ssorcnivek]

@@jannd8170 No wild bison anywhere then?

[@jannd8170]

@@ssorcnivek I guess you don’t understand how indigenous peoples managed the land. They used permaculture to ensure there was enough food crops without the needed labour if intensive farming. You change and seed the landscape so that your needs are met naturally. Part of that management was burning the prairies to prevent them turning into forest land and extend the grass across the continent north to south to ensure a large roaming ground for their herd of 30 million bison. Without the burning trees would have turned the grasslands into forest as succession naturally dictates. They would have gathering where every tribe came together peacefully to hunt the bison together while maintaining the herd sustainably. It wasn’t until settlers came and would shoot bison just for their skin, leaving carcasses rotting across the grasslands that we saw the numbers of the herd dwindle to where they are today. Those bison were technically wild, but their habitat was managed carefully to make sure they thrived. A fairly hands off technique to husbandry.

[@havenmist2216]

@@jannd8170 "managed" the land implies that they an intention to the area other than immediate survival. Any burning would have been done to kill animals (Australian Aboriginals) in the area to use as food, yes changing the landscape to scrub land. but consciously? and for the better? I don't think so. One thing they did have that is present in this KZbin thread: the belief of anamism.

[@stevejenkins6672]

Simple truths from Bill Rees about the nature of our reality., and we are all faced with the toxic aftermath of the growth juggernought which is hurtling to a huge crash.

[@robertmikes619]

Hard to disagree with Reese after leading environmental groups and being elected Mayor of a Ft Lauderdale area city while I fought overdevelopment and initiated lawsuits fighting both the Airport / Seaport expansion plans which would have devastated remaining inshore wetland areas and that success is the only remaining areas that can repopulate the areas reefs / coral from climate change ! I led sierra club in the area as we tried to make Overpopulation a major issue in rapidly developing Florida decades ago but we received tremendous push back from Business / religious groups ! As you fly into Fort Lauderdale look south and you will see Green wetland preserves instead of the thousands of Condos planned for the area !

[@roncabay4377]

Regarding OVERSHOOT, Bill is likely the best spokesperson on the planet. EVERYONE should be attentive to what he has to say.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

he's telling us we're doomed. So everyone should learn we are doomed. hahaha

[@roncabay4377]

Prior to the 1970's it was somewhat common for a doctor not to inform a terminal patient that he would shortly experience death. Currently that would be considered malpractice. Today, many scientists that understand our global predicaments are committing malpractice.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

@@roncabay4377 an M.D. is a lot easier to get than a Ph.D. but people just value how much money a person makes - so M.D.s get more status.

[@milannemecek9198]

I admire his patience towards the end of the interview as Rachel struggeled to process the inconvinient facts.

[@dayofthejackyl]

She’s in straight up denial of the facts.

[@jamespardue3055]

Finally, I've found a guy who articulates most of what I have been thinking for at least 15 years. He does not mince words, and his logic is impeccable. Bill, thank you. It's not comforting but it IS sane, logical, and not sugar coated delusion.

[@Oi....]

Not sure if you follow Paul Beckwith (a climate system scientist), he examined and article on "10 reasons civilisation will collapse". A scary & sober piece. It covers some of the points Dr Rees talks about.

[@yaesyapanama353]

Thank you Bill. Accepting the reality of population biology applied to humans is tough, but it´s part of stepping out of our phantasy world. One thing is saying so, another is doing it.

[@Ghanzo]

Rachael not understanding how energy is not recyclable (the 2nd law of thermodynamics) is the key problem here. That is a huge admission. And, its very very common. Thinking in physics is rare, but its a necessary prerequisite for talking about energy sensibly. Contemplate the three laws

[@aliendroneservices6621]

She also fell down in her Simon Michaux interview. Basic energy concepts flew over her head.

[@bentownsend9383]

She's living in a world of extreme hope.....

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

Would nuclear power be better than renewables? If power stations were actually maintained properly they might not be such a danger (that station in Japan that blew up was not being maintained properly)? Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't know much about physics.

[@shannonsexton8921]

I really appreciate how you have been brave enough to hear some hard truths that are challenging your reality. Indigenous peoples aren't any better or worse... resource extraction is essential for all people/life. The wisdom of living in harmony with nature is found when resource extraction is understood as resource degradation.

[@TennesseeJed]

Holy Cow! You got Bill Reese!! The godfather of overshoot!!

[@dianewallace6064]

Agreed

[@TennesseeJed]

@@dianewallace6064 Hi Diane! Maybe I should say William Reese is the granddaddy of overshoot and William Canton Jr. Is the great grandaddy.

[@chadreilly]

"Rees" lol

[@dianewallace6064]

@@TennesseeJed I like everything you say as always. By the by, no effects here from Idalia in Western NC just windy.

[@TennesseeJed]

@@dianewallace6064 super clear and nice temps here, a little less humid too!!

[@TheRealSnakePlisken]

Bill is always outstanding!

[@janebrown7231]

Rachel, maybe you don't realise that your face and downcast eyes were giving Bill Rees no feedback. Even I kept wanting to say, "Do you understand?" But it wasn't an insult from him, it's one of his sayings, and your overreaction was honestly a bit cringey. I wanted to say, well, you haven't researched HIM! Your comment about 'You haven't researched my channel, my audience expects a high level' was downright rude, especially when at the time you were demonstrating that you have quite limited knowledge in the particular area under discussion. I'm sorry but you really didn't appear to be hearing him or to have researched his views properly. It seems you haven't grasped that there really are no actual solutions, and that what you perceive as a widespread move towards change is actually just an increased awareness in a few privileged pockets - an awareness which cannot lead to any beneficial change of a significant magnitude. It can lead to protests and unrest, but not to a complete reversal of the crappy system we inherited and which is becoming more unequal and unstable all the time. (Martin Gurri: " Distributed networks are excellent at tearing down, but not good at building up.") And all the progress that is happening is tiny and ineffective compared with the size of the predicament. Sorry but he was right to pull you up. Wales not building more roads is admirable and will help in a tiny way to reduce acceleration of the problem, but it is not degrowth and it will not SOLVE any part of it. If we had more incentive and a lot more time, degrowth would have a chance of being organised, if the movement ever became big enough - which is highly unlikely. The truth is, you speak from a position of embarrassing privilege. Day-wage labourers in third-world countries cannot afford to make green choices. They are not ignorant - they are merely trapped. A life of driving rich people around in an ancient diesel vehicle for a couple of dollars a day would not allow you to buy an EV - even if EVs were eco-friendly. Almost everyone is trapped in a system they did not choose and cannot change. Degrowth will happen - at high speed and completely chaotically.

[@catherinebanks6420]

This. Bill Rees is on the opposite spectrum of Rachel in terms of optimism/ pessimism. It could have been a really interesting discussion, but it felt mostly cringey. I personally wanted to hear how Bill's views on collapse have changed in recent years-- Rachel, you don't realize how lucky you are to have him on your show :).

[@janebrown7231]

@catherinebanks6420 Thank you Catherine - tbh I expected no-one to like my comment and that I would get jumped on - but I felt honesty was still necessary on my part. I think I'd describe that spectrum as "Magical Thinking Realism" ! I don't think Dr Rees is pessimistic, and his timescale for human survival may even be rather optimistic... I agree with you that there was huge potential having Bill Rees, and I was irritated throughout that he was expected to waste time explaining the simple stuff. There was a huge opportunity to invite him to get much deeper, as there are few people of his stature. And as you say, I wanted him to tell us how he has responded in recent years, especially as exponential collapse has become more visible. The big question we always hear is, given all the systems in various states of collapse, how is it likely to pan out from now on? - yes, it's speculation, but some are better qualified to speculate than others. Instead, Rachel persisted with her own question, what can we do to stop collapse ?- and seemed unable or unwilling to understand Bill's answer, however friendly and simplified he made it. Dr Rees's recent publication in 'World' journal is what I expected to be discussed, but he didn't get carte blanche to expand as he could have. ("The human ecology of overshoot: why a major population correction is inevitable".) A rare opportunity that wasnt fully utilised, though what we did hear from Bill was very worth while.

[@LightSearch]

Exponential collapse is still not visible. The flame is flickering in the wind, but it's still burning bright. Resource wars are still insignificant.

[@janebrown7231]

@LightSearch The exponential function is becoming visible in certain areas of collapse, such as extreme weather events. Some other aspects are still invisible to the public not following the science, but visible to those who are, such as global methane release and ocean temperature rise. But this will pale in comparison to what is likely to become visible in the near future. Resource wars are very definitely happening already, just not quite yet where we live. I expect them to accelerate very rapidly. I'm sure we all know that the nature of the exponential function is that its initial growth seems insignificant, so that, even the day before it all goes critical, everything still looks quite good.

[@LightSearch]

@@janebrown7231 Until global population begins to decrease, we can't talk about collapse. We're still adding a Germany of people to the planet every year, global GDP and especially food production is still growing. We're not there yet. Sure, people and cattle represent about 97% of the mammalian mass, but what will happen when/if the last 3% disappear? Nothing. In the last 50 years earth lost almost 70% of its wild vertebrates. What will happen when it reaches 90%? Nothing. Our predicament is anti-scientific, it requires expertise from countless areas and colossal amounts of data, so it's dangerous for anyone to make predictions. Just the same, I risk predicting that we will only be in trouble when the basics fail: food and water. When the grain production fails significantly 2 or 3 years in a row in the main breadbaskets of the world, that's the real beginning of collapse. China now holds at least half of the grain stocks of the world and the reason is not just historical trauma. Russia's has been investing heavily in grain production has been having huge crops year after year.

[@ihateexcessivelylongandpoi4490]

Yes! I've been saying get Bill Rees and Rex Weyler on forever! Now you're making progress.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

I worked full time for Greenpeace in 1996 and I had never heard of Rex Weyler! hahaha. thanks

[@RieCherie]

Its hard to listen to hard news. We definitely are going to get more practice.

[@rbeauchamp]

While I appreciate Bill Reese's focus on ecological overshoot, we must not label it as an inherent 'human nature' problem. Much of our rapid escalation is rooted in Western, colonial, and capitalistic paradigms violently imposed on the 'mainstream.' As evidenced by 'The Dawn of Everything,' numerous cultures have historically lived in a more balanced, symbiotic relationship with the living world over long periods.

[@rbeauchamp]

And excellent point here, Rachel, regarding the mainstream: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3WQgWSVdtyWsK8si=jpHmQ7C5s8UBVHB6&t=3936

[@JOlivier2011]

Not really. Only by virtue of having a tiny population and large surrounding ecosystems able to cope with their consumptive needs. Not scalable.

[@Caitanyadasa108]

Bill addressed that very point when Rachel referred to indigenous peoples throughout history who have lived in harmony with their environments: they did so when forced to by resource scarcity, and when given the opportunity they move toward exponential growth every time. Like all animals we are evolutionarily programmed to take advantage of whatever can help us survive, and that mechanism continues to operate even when survival isn't directly at stake.

[@kathybehlen7088]

It will be hard to be coperative and creative when theres no more power grid and water stops coming thru the faucets.

[@carlosmoreira8835]

I'm so happy you got Bill Reese, I've been binging on his lectures recently.

[@antonyjh1234]

Are you real? I see all these comments lately on every video, gushing over the person but zero discussion on the topic..

[@carlosmoreira8835]

@@antonyjh1234 what do you mean? lol yeah, I don't know, this comment section got a bit derailed that's all. I just wrote the comment before listening to the episode

[@antonyjh1234]

It's all comment sections lately, it doesn't matter if it's a person touting fossil fuels some person will say something positive, they have been filled with this gushing over the person and when you say you didn't listen to the topic therefore you have nothing to say about it, which controls the topic because people have to wade through people just wanting to speak without adding anything to the topic, it looks like bought comments to me and I just wanted to see if they were bot comments or not@@carlosmoreira8835

[@abody499]

simps gonna simp@@antonyjh1234

[@paraiclally2310]

The interviewer would be well advised to ask Bill questions on what he says rather than shutting him down. Arrogance is the opposite of enquiry. Enquiry opens is up to new possibilities.

[@vincentkosik403]

Thank you both for this important disturbing discussion

[@SeegerInstitute]

Rachelle, good work as usual. You asked Bill a question which he never could answer. Regarding indigenous peoples, and how they were able to be sustainable for many years the answer is negative feedback loops. What we’ve done is mitigated negative feedback, loops, and reinforced, positive feedback, loops, resulting in social development that has enabled us to use more energy and resources without limiting our own growth. Also, when you asked Bill what we will do or what we should do and he responded in the abstract. This is the problem with most academics, even within the environmental movement. The task at hand is to be realistic in our expectations of what we will do and direct the narrative to enlighten, self-interest such that we can make the first steps to model behavior that will ultimately lead to something better than where we are right now now

[@hascleavrahmbenyoseph7186]

Here is a behavior model change that can reverse man-made climate change: Profit = protecting and enriching the environment, and sharing the sustenance that it provides to all of us. The core cause of man-made climate change is "profit = income - expenses" because this old profit model defines the entire environment, that also includes all of us, as expenses. As we all should know, businesses must avoid and or eliminate as many expenses as they can. The new profit model makes protecting and enriching the environment our main objective; thus, it also changes the meaning of "economic expenses". Now it would be a major expense to ignore our main objective. This new profit behavior model will create millions of new jobs that will come under the heading of "Caretakers of the Environment". Caretakers will earn higher wages than must other workers.

[@hascleavrahmbenyoseph7186]

SeegerInstitute, do you accept any replies? I wrote a pretty good one to you twice, but it keeps getting removed. 💔💔

[@hascleavrahmbenyoseph7186]

Here is the behavior model change that you're looking for: Profit = protecting and enriching the environment, and sharing the sustenance that it provides to all of us. The core cause of man-made climate change is "profit = income - expenses" because this old profit model defines the entire environment, that also includes all of us, as expenses. As we all should know, businesses must avoid and or eliminate as many expenses as they can. The new profit model makes protecting and enriching the environment our main objective; thus, it also changes the meaning of "economic expenses". Now it would be a major expense to ignore our main objective. This new profit behavior model will create millions of new jobs that will come under the heading of "Caretakers of the Environment". Caretakers will earn higher wages than must other workers.

[@Yerpyerp14]

He also lied about native Americans killing large numbers of buffalo once they got guns, cause that absolutely never happened

[@bensanders5681]

@@Yerpyerp14because Europeans beat them to the punch. If they had access to horses and firearms prior to colonialism, you think they wouldn’t have made the buffalo go extinct? You do know there was an entire civilization called the Missippians? They built cities and colonies all over. If they had access to even more tools to expand why do you think they would limit themselves? But they didn’t completely destroy their environment, because they didn’t have access to pack animals and firearms. The culture also died out before major colonization happened because they were decimated by disease faster than they could be genocided by colonists. They were wiped out so heavily that the missippian culture was largely forgotten by those who remained. People ignore or don’t know that a significant portion of us natives practiced agriculture, social inequality and hierarchy, as well as wide spread trade networks and slavery. All things we associate with colonists primarily.

[@mikkert-zh2cf]

Bill is very clear. If you get an F you can try to do a little more for the exam, but if you don't do enough it is still an F.

[@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885]

grades are overrated though. I had a professor who just promoted NAFTA and when I wrote a paper on cooperative farms in Mexico she gave me a D and told me she thought I would fail the class. So I just reguritated her class lectures like everyone else in the class (a bunch of zombies who never questioned her at all!). I think I got a B in the class.

[@mikkert-zh2cf]

@@voidisyinyangvoidisyinyang885 true, I just use it for the metaphor though.

[@jjoanes4196]

She seems the type who has difficulty accepting unpalatable scientific facts. She really should not be interviewing scientists of his caliber. Rees has been interviewed by scientists who challenge him at a high level and he can debate intelligent arguments. He had to repeat and spoon feed information to this interviewer to counter her naive "arguments" that merely showcased her ignorance. He must have the patience of a saint.

[@DrMattColborn]

This is very sadly the best summary of our current situation I've ever seen.

[@anthonymorris5084]

All that's required for optimism is to watch another video that successfully rebukes everything they've said. There are plenty.

[@RobopYoutube]

​@@anthonymorris5084 Man, stop, just stop . I get that you're afraid of this reality... But ignoring it, pretending that it isn't real is not gonna work, one day, it will just hit if we do that

[@anthonymorris5084]

@@RobopKZbin Spare me the sanctimony. What have I claimed isn't real? What exactly isn't real? Warming is science. The climate crisis is pure fiction and activist driven.

[@anthonymorris5084]

@@RobopKZbin Spare me the sanctimony. What have I even claimed isn't real? Warming is science. The climate crisis is purely activist driven and utter fiction.

[@mikemusialowski4473]

• Wow, that was a tough interview! Thanks Rachel, for pushing back where needed and setting boundaries. • Bill is right to point out that those embedded within industrial culture have internalized a predisposition toward taking as much as is possible. This was the upshot of the book Ishmael which made me leave chemistry grad school in favor of environmental activism and ultimately the life of an educator • Simultaneously, Rachel, you are spot on pointing out that there are in fact indigenous peoples who have learned to balance human with ecosystem needs, more on that below... • If we go back to Simon Michaux, when he described a division of societal responses to the crisis with 4 categories and called the 4th as Arcadians (who I ascribe to) who look 100 years to the future and “how to redo society”, then Rachel’s point is that there are, in fact, segments of global society who we should be begging for guidance on how to do this. I stand with you, Rachel, there are remnants of humans that are not entirely selfish and whose thoughts, feelings, and cultures we can be using as models for “redoing” industrial humanity. This is essentially Derrick Jensen cored thinking plus the solution, Thanks!! • The whole thing about energy sources being nonrecycleable is most easily described (by a mentor of mine) as arriving at low-grade heat. Yes, electricity can turn an electric motor, which can spin thread into cloth, but once that process is done, low grade heat (often from friction, in the loom, the electric motor, and the electric cables ) is unusable except maybe to heat the room a bit, and within a day or two that heat is mostly gone, or as Rees says, “dissipated”. Yeah, energy conversion and the losses due to non-100% efficiencies are not understood by the vast majority of society. You've interviewed numerous experts that have given numbers on the poor efficiencies. So depressing. ICE car... 25% efficient, the rest is lost as low-grade heat. Yikes! I taught this to Denver kids in my HS classroom.

[@guiart4728]

Native American: The horse? Oh no, that would give us an unfair advantage over the bison! Watching the illusion of the ‘Noble Savage’ die is a difficult stretch for sensitive people who are clinging to any hope for the species. Thus the term ‘hopium’ is born.

[@josephdibello846]

This was a really good interview. But I think you need to grow a little thicker skin. Please understand that you are not speaking for me, a subscriber, when you imply the guest is insulting, my intelligence. The context of the conversation clearly shows that the guest was not being condescending when he used the phrase “do you understand“. It was used for emphasis to punctuate his viewpoint. This is not the only occasion when you have been “triggered“ by a remark by a guest. On another occasion, a guest mentioned your accent. And you swatted him down for this remark. I have an accent that is pretty distinct, from a certain part of the United States. And I would not in any way find it insulting, in the context of a conversation, a civil conversation, a respectful conversation, if someone made a comment about my accent. And I actually find your accent very appealing. Why be defensive about our distinct languages and its nuances? It’s what makes life interesting.

[@abody499]

I said the exact same thing, I believe his discourse marker was "understand this..." and the comment was hidden. Watched this almost as soon as it came out, so no doubt it was sniped by the tory journalist.

[@user-lm7mu3zj4z]

Rachel, Excellent analysis by professor Bill...and Rachel pls leave your ego behind when interviewing a knowledgeable person... !

[@user-xn4me5ky6l]

Time 1:08, I believe what Bill intended to say about the American healthcare system is that America does not have "Universal Healthcare" for all citizens. Medicare is only available for Americans age 65. The closest America came to some form of Universal Healthcare is the 2010 Affordable Care Act (ACA) commonly known as ObamaCare; after the 44th President of the U.S. Barack Obama . It provides subsidies that lowers the costs of healthcare for households at living at a certain percentage of the federal poverty level. I appreciate the interview. My takeaway is that the outlooks of Green energy transition looks bleak unless we change the current economic system that exists to exploit the land for perpetual accumulation of profits.

[@Antuan2911]

Very good talk Rachel ! Bill Rees is amazing. Thank you... About "mainstream", maybe is time you to go out to the road and make a video asking ordinary people what they think about Climate Catastrophe, about Overshoot, about Inequality...

[@ouimetco]

Great interview and good job from interviewer and guest. At times a young mind has to struggle to grasp what an elder mind is exposing. It’s normal and part of growth and lifespan development. Again great job. Love the channel.

[@jimjiminy5836]

Yeah. Interesting dynamic.

[@1patula]

I can understand Rachel as a young woman/ human who would like to see any light at the end of the tunnel, and Bill who has been observing all this madness for 3x Rachel life time and is naturally a “bit” more pessimistic.. it seems that we all have to pay for the excess consumption of all humanity, and the bill is huge.. I think recently about the future world in which I would rather take my own life than stay alive. It’s a dark place

[@kirstinstrand6292]

Bill Reece is a lovely man, filled with knowledge, wisdom, and truth. The sad reality is that there is not enough sanity 😔 in our world. Hence, he is too idealistic.😮 The immediate reprieve is to limit the population, yet no one is open to this topic, either.

[@kerrryschultz2904]

Well said. In china under the leadership of Moa following a decade of 60 million people who died due to starvation the stark reality of consumption reduction by reducing population increase and therefore demand was understood and implimented. The human population needs to understand that there can not be unlimited growth and governments need to enact policies that penalize large families and possibly have a consumption tax that gets progressive based on what the norm is for two adults and two siblings. As you get outside those boundaries there are things that can be implimented to discourage large population growth. Could entail a formula that says if you use little or no fossil fuels, grow your own food, and general impliment low impact life style, could be recognized a a positive allowing an extra child as verse a family that has run away consumption and high planetary demands.

[@jonkay2463]

I recognized this problem as a preteen (8th grade) when I was home sick from school and undertook a term paper on Darwin. That was more than sixty years ago (Regrettably, young people today will never know how divine life on a habitable planet can be, when the total population is below four billion! ) I have devoted my vocation to the cause since that grade school term paper. Much to the amusement of those who knew me, and many who did not (eg on talk show radio call in programs). Roughly four decades later I was recruited from my job at a "Fixit Shop" to be the handyman at a Catholic Community Center , which also happened to be a convent. A famous celebrity moralist was invited to speak to our large audience at a local auditorium, and encouraged us to volunteer a subject we normally would not mention. I compiled by mentioning my customary two word thesis "global overpopulation". The entire multitude gasped in unison. The sound was so loud, most of the attendees could not hear the famous man's reply. The next day I was fired by the "Sister" (Nun) who had hired me. She explained that they just could not feel safe with me around. Subsequently I moved from California to the East Coast. News reached us that the town of Santa Rosa had spontaneously burst into flames. Astonishing! My last view of that lovely region with its sprawling oak studded pastoral expanse was a television shot of "Trails End Mobile Home Park" across the street from the religious sanctuary, licked by tongues of flame. My (ironic) claim to flame.

[@flori1138]

Great interview and thought-provoking points! I listened to this right after the latest Great Simplification and couldn’t help but feel that if Lisi Krall had been here as well, she would have addressed many of your points of disagreement. In a way you and Nate talked about the same thing this week, but from different perspectives!

[@paulchace2391]

Bill reese is the best, no need for a interviewer Its all a dumpster fire

[@user-gf3lw5pi4t]

The lady looks like, why did I have this guy on my show❤

[@Changeworld408]

Thanks for not having us distracted with commercials. This talk is one of the very best on our human predicamemt❤

[@MishaDaBear]

Bill you are correct, I have a friend from Morocco whose father works building coal fired power plants to supply Europe with terra watts of power. The same is occurring in Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon and other places. We must stop having cars for primary transport, e-bikes are better. Stop pleasure flying, building resorts, going on cruises all together!. Also the most unenvironmental thing that we can do is HAVE ANY CHILDREN! I chose not to have any Children most of you MUST do the same if you truly care about the planets future!

[@grindupBaker]

Except, of course, obviously, that the species will then consist entirely of brains that spread progeny because that's the DNA that will reproduce and subsume all other. That's the SOLE purpose of Life. That's the SYSTEM. Oh you can't beat the System. That's some Catch that Catch 22.

[@stud6414]

So no need to worry about the environment for you. You'll be replaced by other groups who breed, breed and breed. Bye

[@fabiodasilva4150]

Bill only, did a great presentation as always

[@literalghost929]

Powerful! As always, Bill Rees is spot on.

[@garyjohnson1466]

Actually this is exactly what I’ve been saying for a long time as I’ve understood this, great discussion, totally agree, but the powers that be always put the economy first, which business as usually has to change in order to facilitate the necessary changes to take place, so in this sentence I am in complete agreement with professor Rees….thank you, enjoyed hearing this sobering message, however depressing !

[@qizhong88888]

the screen shot of this video says: "will we survive next century?" but the burning question on everyone's mind is: "will we survive this century?😂

[@aum82]

Indeed, will we survive the next 5 years?

[@evilryutaropro]

The scary thing is how degraded will the Earth be in 200-300+ years. There probably won’t be people around to see it. A world filled with microbial slime and a handful (in terms of biodiversity) of insects, small mammals birds reptiles amphibians, and lots and lots of trash everywhere

[@stephentrueman4843]

William Rees is 79 years old here aswell; what a service to humanity

[@paulwhetstone0473]

Bill Rees IS THE MAN. He knows what’s going down on this planet more than anyone I’ve heard. I appreciate Rachel very much for dialoging with him on the podcast. Hopefully she will pull her head out of her ass and pay more attention to the “mainstream”.

[@jazziejim]

It is more That Bill needs to pull his head out because you will never succeed unless you think you can.

[@glorianinotti6540]

Not even William is the man. He's a breeder, and has therefore contributed to the perpetual issue of our doom. Even he will never admit this, which is exactly the reason why WASF in every way as a species 😂

[@paulwhetstone0473]

@@glorianinotti6540 Good observation Gloria. You’re on point but I think Bill said he adopted his two children.

[@glorianinotti6540]

@@paulwhetstone0473 yes!! I just heard this at the end! I retract my statement!!

[@megansmith-sallans-gm9er]

Read Overshoot years ago and I am a huge fan of William Rees! He's such a treasured elder. Unfortunately, I will not be tuning back into this channel, as Rachel came off as a complete brat. At times, it was hard to keep watching (especially when her body language and facial expressions appeared visibly annoyed with Dr. Rees). You do not have to agree with everything a guest shares, but Rachel appears yet to have mastered the art and skill of doing so in a way that does not feel combative and defensive.

[@jett7891]

You’re both just brilliant ‼️ Very good interview, and just so honest and clear Bill 🕊 Thanks so much

[@timothyhume3741]

Bill Reese is brilliant. A great teacher. And maybe just maybe you should not take so much offense at him asking you if you understand. Clearly, you don't really quite get what he is teaching. Your journalist ego is clearly showing.

[@daffodil1017]

Everything he said was incredible, the host's interjections I found a bit difficult to watch.

[@pacificatoris9307]

Thank you Dr. Rees for your wisdom. And, thank you Rachel for your professionalism for manning his explanations.

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

Good man for adopting children, rather than increasing the sky high human population. I appluade him! Well done!

[@amberazurescale5617]

Great interview! I somewhat understand both sides. Similar to Rachel, I think the term "we" is very unclear. Who is actually meant by it? Most of the time, it seems to refer to a global bulk group of humans, other times just to members of western society and culture, then again to only a sub-part of that. In any case, I think there is no "we" on a global scale and the term should be used less often. I rarely use it at all, and when I do I often either define it or relate it to all life on Earth. When it comes to the "mainstream", I see the same numbers as Bill does. He's got it right when he looks at the global picture, where 30+ years of climate activity, dire warnings and conferences and all so-called "green tech" have brought nothing but runaway GHG emissions. Rachel is right in recognizing some small positive developments, but in my view they're vastly overshadowed by the global destructive behaviour of a society that went haywire. Besides I think there's much too much talk about humans and much too little talk about all other life on the planet. I think the "human endeavor" is already over, which makes me much more concerned about all the other animals and plants. Personally, I also realize that the more I hear Bill or other people talk about humans, the more I'm reminded that I really ain't one. I'm more like an alien that was sent to this world to understand what's happening, and now can only shake its head looking at all that mess...

[@abody499]

we = humans. there is one species.

[@4everhdt]

In reference to 49:30, no, Japan is happier because they aren't "multicultural" and "diverse".

[@bruceclark4754]

Thing we could do but don't - now theres the rub. We've had decades to actually do something and we've actually done the opposite. Is there any reason to believe we will change this trajectory?

[@freeheeler09]

I was a plant scientist and planner for state and then federal agencies. We were warning agency heads about invasive species, habitat loss and the resulting extinction of species assemblages and individual species for decades.,We didn’t have a word for overshoot. Agencies have multiple mandates, and extinction is treated as just one challenge among many (visitor experience, clean bathrooms, and increasingly, controlling ever more damaging wildfires and dealing with growing water shortages. And, agencies are ultimately accountable only to the lawyers and accountants. Bears and white bark pines don’t have lawyers, and have no monetary value to accountants.

[@grindupBaker]

Yep for sure. You need to get a snazzy name for your discipline though because "plant scientist" sounds a bit off a la "Art Vandelay, Railroad Architect".

[@roberthornack1692]

Enough with the hopium! The best we can do at this point is alleviate the suffering & begin the mourning process. It's over.

[@roncabay4377]

Thank you Robert for saying this so directly. There is no hope for this modern global industrialized civilization. Wish that those who have spent decades studying the multiple predicaments that we face would display this honesty. We need a proper diagnosis. In the medical field it would be considered malpractice not to inform a terminal patient of their condition. The only hope we have is on an individual level, or slightly less for very small groups. This knowledge can prompt them (us) to live changed lives in this global time of dying.

[@roberthornack1692]

@@roncabay4377 Thanks- We realists (doomers) need to stick together. Our numbers seem to be increasing as people realize they're being lied to. As Guy Mcpherson states time & time again "only love remains"

[@roncabay4377]

Robert, I wholeheartedly agree with Guy's statement. But how far should love extend? Should it just extend to individuals who love and agree with me. There is not much merit in that. It should also extend to my neighbors, which includes everyone. And 'everyone' includes even my enemies.

[@roberthornack1692]

@@roncabay4377 it truly is a conundrum. For those who will not accept our love, there isn't much we can do. To alleviate the suffering of those around us is the only practical solution. Giving food to the needy is one way, but I have to admit sheltering the homeless in my own home is something I couldn't possibly do at this point in my life. Charity can only go so far & one can be taken advantage of, as I have found out many dollars later to my chagrin!

[@roncabay4377]

I love this paraphrased quote, "We are not called or required to changed the world. The ONLY thing that will change the world is by doing SMALL things with GREAT love." This takes the pressure off of us. Desiring or trying to accomplish great things almost always gets in the way due to lack of focus on the small things. It's all about how we interact with family, friends, strangers and even adversaries in small positive ways. A smile, an appropriate touch, listening attentively to other's and not pushing our opinions. In general, it's about treating others as we would want to be treated. Life should be about others and not ourselves. Damn, that's hard. If everyone picked ONE person in need and helped them on a one to one basis the world would change in a heartbeat. And the response of this person is somewhat immaterial. It's our response to them that's important. One last thing, I suck at this...but I'm getting better at it.

[@tikotex]

Jacinda Adern our 'former' Prime Minister was the only leader I have heard mention the need for degrowth. Sadly while the world loved our PM, the strength of the Neo-liberals including within her own party rule the hen house. My hope is Jacinda will use her network to reach a wider audience

[@theloopcrew5947]

I don't recall her talking about degrowth. Are you able to provide a reference / link? I think she is a good person but she was still doing everything growthish while in office.

[@Lanthanideification]

I also never recall her saying degrowth as well and I'm a huge politics nerd. There are people in NZ who have been sounding the alarm like Bill Rees has been since the 90s. Politicians ignore them just as they ignore Bill.

[@dalewolver8739]

She was awesome. A rose in a field of stinkweed.

[@EastWindCommunity1973]

Glad to have found this channel, keep up the interesting conversations!

[@GlobeHackers]

How have social systems changed throughout history? Modern industrial, fossil fuel-powered, financialized capital and global consumerism (economics) is an omnicidal heat engine. Our predicament is cultural (what we think, believe, and do.) I've lived in seven countries. The economy is global. People have fallen for neoliberal economics. Without a worldwide effort to change our culture and what we think, believe, and do, we are in for tough times. Most people avoid channels like this because they don't want to think about these topics. They want to survive, pay rent, be entertained, fed, housed and acquire stuff. I've seen many changes worldwide over the last forty years, and everywhere we continue to use everything up. Nate Hagens has an excellent series addressing the energy angle of things, and one can always read Vaclav Smil. Regardless of how aware an audience may be, we all still have much to learn, and too many folks avoid these topics like the plague. "The climate hoax is designed by elites to make us poor." A sustainable culture will define wealth in a radically different way. Will we want to nurture and steward life, or use it all up in vain pursuits. History is a brutal lens. Will enough people revolt? The price is dear.

[@coweatsman]

Only 6.51 k subs. This channel deserves more subs.

[@dianewallace6064]

Yay! Bill Rees.

[@clivepierce1816]

Bill’s narrative is compelling because his framing encompasses the convergent environmental crises including ecological and climate breakdown. He makes several important points, notably regarding the severe constraints imposed by the need to rapidly transition away from fossil fuels, but also the necessity to cut natural resource consumption to a small fraction of what it is today. Rapid economic degrowth and profound life style transformation are essential, and his position that very few governments are pursuing such policies is apparent. However, I do find myself reacting against his implicit position that we are doomed to failure. On a personal level our family has dramatically reduced its carbon and environmental footprint.

[@AlanDavidDoane]

And yet here you are using the internet, which is one of the first things that should be shut off to preserve resources and reduce waste heat emissions.

[@anthonymorris5084]

This is the incessant myopia that we've come to expect from both socialists and environmentalists. Humans are innovators and problem solvers. This may explain why humanity has never been safer, healthier or more prosperous than at any time in history.

[@scarlettkersten2928]

Hello Rachel, Thanks for having professor Reese. Maybe he would not have asked you if you understood what he said, had you not had such an 'impermeable' expression on your pretty but face. There was really no reaction visible. I wondered all the time, just like the formidable Reese, if you understood a word he was saying. Though some of your questions made clear that you know a few things about the subject. Maybe a better preparation on the subject next time. Although Bill Reese did make the most of it!

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

​@@AlanDavidDoanebut we need access to knowledge! Science updates fast! Would books be better or worse? Wouldn't it be better to reduce clothing consumption, unessecary plane flights, eating meat and constantly re doing house interiors purely to keep up with the latest fashion?

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

​@@anthonymorris5084perhaps maybe Google some pictures of habitat destruction. Also Google some pictures of the deformities the children of African cobalt (a mineral needed for rechargeable batteries used in eletric cars, smart phones, tablets) miners are experiencing. Perhapd if you see these things with your own eyes you will understand why Bill has come to this conclusion. I'll post some links of pictures of these problems in a separate comment.

[@benshums]

The people who want to effect change are the most optimistic. But the problem is that the optimism largely misplaced. When they learn how screwed up things are... they either go into denial (to buffer their fake optimism) or they give up. So while I like Rachel's attempts to provide optimism and ask "how can we effect change"... Bill points out that most of this "change" is mythical. A lot of countries and corporations are pretending to go "green" but their overall footprint is still increasing. We are duping ourselves that we are making real progress. And when Rachel pressures Bill into giving us a solution - he rightfully says we would have to treat the situation as "wartime" scenario where entire economy restructures to downsize their consumption by over 50%. I love how his solution is straight and to the point... changing our ways is going to suck! But people will simply dismiss this "suck" for their need to remain optimistic... and therein we all become denialists in our own way.

[@ImproveYourMagic]

The time for change was in 1979 when Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the White House. His vision was for the USA to lead and corner there market on renewables. Then Reagan was elected, removed the panels, and shattered that goal.

[@singingway]

20:00 "humans occupy every available habitat that is suitable to sustain them" I would add, because of fossil fuels, humans have expanded into habitats UNsuitable to sustain life... Like the new housing developments in Arizona which rely on trucks to bring in their water. Suburbs across America have built houses out of alignment with their environments, so they depend for livability entirely upon external inputs for staying cool enough or warm to survive.

[@StashmoCharlie]

A frustrating interview, yes. But despite Bills 'matter of fact' responses, there is an important lesson here about the danger of thinking in terms of human exceptionalism. It's both easy and fair to think of human impact on the planet in terms of 'their culture' or 'their philosophy', but if you were an outside observer watching all this unfold, you would only think in terms of all life on the planet as 'it'. When watching an imperfect terrarium evolve, grow to its boundaries and begin to die, as an outside observer would you ask "why can't it survive forever" or "why doesn't it want more"?

[@jerrylyns7331]

I’ve come back to this a couple weeks later, and I actually agree a little bit more with Rachel and I don’t think she’s naïve and saying that while overshoot is inevitable, they are still needs to be action to mitigate it

[@dayanidhi8754]

Thanks for hosting this interview and asking some hard questions, but it feels like you disrespected William in sections of the interview. 38:51

[@roncabay4377]

All of humanity are passengers on a runaway train that will shortly reach its final destination. This train is accelerating with each passing moment due to the quantity and quality of additional fuels being added. Sadly, the vast majority of passengers are totally unaware that the train even exits.

[@louisehoff9467]

Excellent explanation by most brilliant William Rees. It was hard to watch an interviewer look so negative throughout.

[@qbas81]

Difficult but very important video! Thank you for this discussion.

[@johndavis2399]

@27:23: Thank you Bill for stating a conclusion I have also reached -- no one is in control (of the super organism.) "The mainstream is not addressing the problem" @ 1:05:25. I don't see much serious planning or proposals from the alternative media either. Like ,what kind of an economic/financial system could be established that is not growth based and dependent on fossil fuels? In general, most of the KZbin presenters of this crisis tend to focus on the problem, versus solutions. In fact, many expert interviewees confess they have no solutions.. (We are all dependent on the existing order...like it or not.) Perhaps Gaia is in control, and humans are doing exactly what she intends: to modify the climate and the concentrations of metals and materials around the globe. Your work is appreciated Rachel.

[@vidviewer100]

This the first time I've heard someone, with an exceptional intellect, confirm exactly what I have perceived intuitively about the fate of the species and planet ....gotta face it there is no hope

[@aum82]

Completely

[@KateFrancis-eo2rp]

It was a most excellent explanation 👏 👌. Almost exactly what I was looking for! I just want to know now when EXACTLY are things going to get extremely bad in the UK?

[@thurstonhowellthetwelf3220]

Add mankinds inability to understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics to the inability of mankind to understand the exponential function as two big impediments to dealing with our predicament... thankyou both for another fine conversation.

[@gemmadavies2922]

Please Interview Alex Epstein, Michael Shellenberger and Bjorn Lomborg.

[@ashleybennett4418]

Three shills

[@Ocean-Climate-Geoethics-Edu]

On the whole, good work, Rachel. Congrats for getting good people to talk about important planetary issues. However, forgive me for saying so, but your manner (body language and talk) appears somewhat childish, and really does spoil the whole thing. Too often you say things like "sort of, a bit like". Direct confrontation when you really know little is ill advised. You appear rather too conceited. Get yourself some training in interview skills. If you want to put forward your ideas, then do a talk on your own. If you want others to share their ideas, do not interrupt them rudely, but simply asked pointed questions, eg, asking them to elaborate. Then your interviews would be more palatable. I suggest that you edit the film, and take out most of your antics, and just have Bill telling his story. I will then put your film in my channel.

[@jazziejim]

Thank you Racheal for making him talk about solutions. And thank you for your strength.

[@AlanDavidDoane]

There is no solution to humanity's predicament other than adaptation to the consequences of our mistakes.

[@AlignmentCoaching]

Bill is speaking to a global frame and Rachel wants to identify Denmark as example of what’s possible…but I’m not sure that’s possible at scale…China continues to increase its importation of coal

[@J.M.-nb4gw]

People can complain all they want about the lack of action regarding "saving" the environment however most people who know what really happening understand that we are facing imminent ecological collapse within a few short years and there's not a damned thing we can do to stop it now 😢

[@carlosmoreira8835]

You didn't lie, Rachel, this was very spicy! But very good! It was like a great ramen lol Great job!

[@davidbarry6900]

I didn't notice anything spicy in this episode? It was all pretty uncontroversial stuff, in my opinion. If you understand anything differently about the climate/ecological crisis, you just haven't been paying attention.

[@Namari12]

​@@davidbarry6900That's not why it was spicy.

[@h.e.hazelhorst9838]

I have a question for Rachel and Bill, perhaps for a follow-up: what do you think of the Gaia Hypothesis of James Lovelock (who is still around, I think he is 100years old!)? The earth and its biosphere as a super organism, and humanity more and more acting like a disease that threatens to destroy the organism that it depends on. Eventually, earth will get rid of us.

[@PlanetCritical]

I've heard that certain indigenous groups are aware that Gaia is considering whether or not to eradicate humanity to protect Life. I don't think anything is ever as black-and-white and we must remember that any such consciousness is also our own.

[@Caitanyadasa108]

@@PlanetCritical Good point; many humans forget that we are a part of nature also. Interestingly, being such means humans are part of the Life Gaia would be protecting, which could mean that outright eradication is not required but a major culling is.

[@jmm8291]

I do appreciate the ideas presented by Rachel (and love Bill Rees). The future needs these young thought leaders and I hope to see where these young people can take us when they have more influence in the culture